War Games Comments by Rob Fahey

Well technically both the war and the hard core of the insurgency are long over. Our job is done and the war is finished. Six years later than planned, but hey.

Another country shot back to the stone age: well done!

Certainly not to stone age. They didn't have oil derricks back in stone age, and uncle sam needed those badly. Having good propaganda machine is handy. They invented weapons of mass destruction as a reason to come there. And then they fought terrorists who had a problem with foreigners coming to their place and stealing their resources. At the end, they got puppet government there giving them free oil, big contracts for rebuilding the place (which they bombed themselves) and huge weapon sales. Every(rich american)one wins.
And now they will even have games based on those events for extra profit.

Silvervein +1

I think the problem with this war is that it's shown the ignorant side of the most powerful western countries. No one really knows why we went to Iraq and I doubt there are many people living in the UK right now who want to know. The UK is so far up it's own backside that people are more bothered about shit like Britain's Got Talent and the latest football scores than wanting to learn what is ACTUALLY happening in the world right now.

In my opinion, that's actually pretty fucking disturbing.

i want to see loads of BOOBIES in games

One thing only! We overvalue human lifes and critisism.

If you think that games can only be violent in order to portray something meaningful, such as the horrors of war, I would suggest that you play Desert Bus for a while. It'll do you good.

When I fork over £40 or however much the damn discs cost these days, I expect entertainment. Thoughtful entertainment has its place too of course, and personally I prefer a thought-provoking game over a mindless romp, but sometimes I just want to have some ridiculous, escapist fun. This is why the medium was given the name 'game' in the first place, hmm?

I don't think anybody here will claim that war is a jolly good time, despite most of us having not even experienced the real thing. In fact, I don't believe I've ever met anybody who believes such a thing, young or old. To proclaim that games will foster such an idea is to agree with the tripe that the Daily Fail has been feeding us all of these years about games fucking with our minds - the same line they trot out whenever they try to get the next game banned.

Wow, what a crap article.

You feel the industry has some sort of duty to supply gamers with something more than "war porn"? Fuck off. While I agree that we can all hope for something that is more, support something that is more, buy something that is more, the idea that we are OWED something more is bullshit.

Another batch of moral masturbation all over my face. Arghhh!

The problem is that all media turn big traumatic events like wars and terrorist attacks into entertainment products. It's games, books, films, and yeah newspapers like Rob says. Books are probably worse than anything in this regard to be honest - they run the complete gamut from very educational to incredibly silly, and the silly ones are purported to be "true" a lot more often. How long is long enough with this stuff? I find it hard to get upset about because it just happens to everything, and it's part of the democratic free market we live in... the greater evil would be to censor it.

We talked about this this week on the games-and-industry podcast Visiting The Village.

Excellent article. Love the final paragraph. Would it be possible for you to combine it into one page and make a permalink? And yes, I like it that much. Didn't expect that on a video game site. Which is fairly silly considering I only find those types of thoughts on video game sites and general forums..

I do have one minor gripe with this. Games aren't considered educational by anyone yet it seems ok to jump all over 'em. Make an article that instead of calling for games to be as sophisticated as high art, acknowledges that they are still an infantile form of entertainment that isn't taken seriously by anyone. You're only allowed to flame something if you first admit that it's more than "just a game" which no-one will do. There's been games that teach streets of a city (forget the name) and even one that placed you inside a Shakespeare play. But on the whole, they aren't that advanced so shouldn't get the kind of flaming they seem to attract. Both sides to an argument. But again, that's only a minor gripe in general. The article was brilliant.

@notmyrealname
"Well technically both the war and the hard core of the insurgency are long over. Our job is done and the war is finished."

Not quite. The war is to get bin Laden. The job isn't even close to being done. Same as 'Nam. Public outcry after media says "Oh noes!!1! Evil dudes is gettin beats! Evry1 sai noes!", then army pulls out, the current prez is voted out for being in the war. From one side for going in, from the other side for pulling out. And if you take a look at Vietnam, USA and South 'Nam were winning. Even with the horrible troop rotation. The USA pulled out and North won almost instantly. The masses are stupid. But the vocal minorities control the world through them.

@joeymoto108
"No one really knows why we went to Iraq "

Damn.. That's pathetic. I'm Aussie, from the middle of freakin nowhere as far as tech is concerned, and even I can remember 9/11. Afghanistan was first off to go get bin Laden. Then intelligence (didn't really take that much but still) found out that Iraq was being used to funnel people into Afghanistan. So to control Afhghanistan and find bin Laden, they needed to stop the usage of Iraq as an express highway. Course, it didn't quite work out as Syria and Iran decided to open up 2 new paths.

I'm assuming you don't know much about the Middle East. Over there, it's a patriachal society ruled by religion. So male dominated and Islam plays a large part. Now, there's several branches of Islam, the 2 main ones are Sunni and Shi'a. They just differ on who the last major prophet was. And these dudes are fanatical about their religion. They will waste each other over it. Most people say Christians are violent.. Most Christians aren't really Christians and don't even come close to the devotion these guys have. So a country over there is generally one sect with the other "cleansed".

What we're seeing at the moment, is.. Actually a strange occasion in history. Sunni and Shi'a aren't blowing each other up. They're going at USA aka the Coalition of the Willing. They've started to go at each other now, Iraq is a religious war with western countries caught in the middle. But Iran, which is composed of Shi'a muslims, is funneling Sunni through. You'd never have seen that if US wasn't over there. So US can't win in Iraq. Unending numbers and an opponent that hasn't signed the Geneva Convention. But America did have a reason for going into Iraq. Turks are the only ones that have won in the Middle East. Brits failed, Russia failed and America is going to fail.

Personally, I'd have dropped a small nuke into an unpopulated region of Afghanistan, then told the warlords to hand over bin Laden or I'd glass the whole country. But America decided to not kill civillians and just go for the main terrorists. Oh, terrorists kill civvies, guerilla warfare does NOT involve killing civvies. Kill a kid and you're fked in my book. Chechnyan, Iraqis, etc. But the reason America is losing is because they're not as bad as you people are saying.

"The UK is so far up it's own backside that people are more bothered about shit like Britain's Got Talent and the latest football scores than wanting to learn what is ACTUALLY happening in the world right now.

In my opinion, that's actually pretty fucking disturbing. "

Damn right it's disturbing. And you've swallowed propaganda whole. In wars, while they're going, you will never know who's telling the truth. They all spin it. You've bought the one where "America is evil, 9/11 was ok" story. Guess what, that's as bad as being a gun toting hick from Texas who shoots everything. *using a steretype here, not all Texans are like that.* If it helps, you're not the only one. We can't get the info ourselves, so we only know what we're told. And it's damned hard to find the truth in all the BS that's spun.

@everyone saying the game should be banned.

http://www.kumawar.com/

What are you all whinging about, it was possible to play Fallujah the day after it happened. :P Could arrest Sudam the same day it went down over there. It's been done before. In CoD4, you shoot people that are distinctly of Arabian descent.The new "in" enemy is arabian. No more nazis. At long bloody last too.. But stop flaming the game.

Yea, as the article says, "it's not just a game". But none of it is. I dislike watching Battle Star Galactica because of what they get into. Which is a shame as I think it's a reasonably accurate sci fi. Dog fighters control like a real one would. But watching rape and torture is slightly too much for my palate. But I can (usually) watch a movie that involves dead ppls without blinking. Course.. Most of it is so stylised that it's nothing like life. And I still freak at some movies. But why ban it. It doesn't minimise the effects in any way. I saw news reports that involved journalists. Wait for it. In a flak vest ON THE FRONT LINES!!! I saw ppl get shot on tv.. By a journalist in a combat situation.. That shouldn't happen. My lil sis was in the room cause everyone was hyped that there was a major war on so was watching the news. And there was nothing else on anyway. But if that can be shown on tv, then why can't I, a 20 year old, play a game which will be rated at least M. Which would be more censorship that the news broadcast got.


Summing up: (how to tell you've posted too much.. lol)

No point banning the game if you: 1) Let every other form of media milk the same issue for all it's worth with less censorship. 2) If something else has already done it.

Stop hating America based on flawed knowledge. If you want to appear to knowledgable, try making a post that includes some decent facts, not just "an appeal to emotion" as my English teacher would say.

Addenum: (how to tell post is reallllllly long.)
http://www.americasarmy.com

/\
Here's a game that tried to bring a realistic depiction of warfare to gaming and was slammed for it. I quite like it. The physics are nicely done. Best sniping ever. But it tried to do the whole "it's not just a game" thing and it didn't work. It isn't a "jumping/shooting point and click and be done with" type of game. You die easily, you have to pay attention and teamwork is an extremely good idea.

Yea, it was developed by the USA army. Big. Freakin. Deal.

1) It's free and a pretty decent game.
2) It's trying to portray a war as seen from a soldiers P.O.V. and not just a killfest. So hype it up with as much flame as you're giving to Six Days in Fallujah for trying. Then, one day, we can see kids in classrooms playing games to learn. :P Or at least get the game continued on for as long as possible. :P

*Updates links*

http://www.kumagames.com/

Specifically:

http://www.kumagames.com/kw2_free_game.h...

Play in Fallujah. Or Karbul. Wherever. Iraq and Afghanistan with everything from 1998 missions to missions in 08 to "The Surge" that went so badly.