Valve sees "groundswell to abandon" DRM News

Well said imo.

I use my steam account in my office and at home, and it is a simple a logging in and I have all of my games at hand.

I still do prefer the hard copy on occasion, especially the collectors editions.

EA are n00bs.

post scriptum

FIRST!

Steam really is lovely. It just makes perfect sense. I can install on as many PCs as I want, but I can only play on one of them at once as there is only one of me. Fair enough. If there was two of me, one of me would be a pirate. It's completely fair and I don't have to keep searching for the disc when I want to play a game.

When they start putting savegames on a server so I can literally play the same game at home and at work it'll be perfect.

DRM is fine, as long as it works good and doesn't limit installs or make the experience akward in any other way.

Steam for the win!

Now I want to see how Valve respond to Black Mesa Source and whether it will be an official Steam supported Mod.

He speaks so much sense. Gabe Newell is one of the reasons large scale PC gaming isn't dead already.

Steam is DRM. So as long as it's not your DRM it's bad, Gabe?!

I have no issue with developers wanting to protect their products, but not at the cost of messing my own pc up.

Steam is DRM

However it is a DRM that takes nothing, and adds value to the product, e.g infinite installs on infinite machines at the same time, When steam cloud is live, you'll be able to share saves between all the locations installed to, and, the shop prices are very reasonable imo

"However it is a DRM that takes nothing"

Haven't used Steam in quite a while (only ever bought Half Life with it) but doesn't it require a live internet connection anymore?

Any protection system that fails to protect both the publishers rights to be paid for their product and the right of the consumer to have unrestricted access to the content that they have paid for is a faliure. I have seen no evidence that current DRM has done anything to reduce or prevent piracy, the industry should be investing it's time to create a encryption system that uses a hardware reading device aswell as software secruity as online activations are easily bypassed. Although a few individuals would obviously by " chip " their PC to be able to decrypt use clone disks from personal experience most individuals I know who game on consoles buy all their games new and preowned.

Steam is lovely when you have constant online access where ever you go (i have my account and games in both work and at home). But its also a bitch when you don't. (my mom's)

Haven't used Steam in quite a while (only ever bought Half Life with it) but doesn't it require a live internet connection anymore?


While playing? It never did.

I only wish Steam would introduce an age verification system. It's rather annoying that, as a user in Germany, I can't buy uncut versions (which would be perfectly legal) via Steam - have to import the games instead so I get a foreign key.

That's a lot more control already than I want a publisher/platform holder on the PC to have.

"the industry should be investing it's time to create a encryption system that uses a hardware reading device aswell as software secruity as online activations are easily bypassed"

That is not a fool proof approach by any means. You talk of "chipping" a PC, but that is not the only angle pirates could take.

At the end of the chain you have the game software that needs to speak to a hardware key in order to function. This could circumnavigated by buggering about with hardware as you suggest, or the software itself could simply be cracked (as software is cracked every day) so that it THINKS it is speaking to the correct hardware key.

So adding hardware to the chain is a bit of a red herring. It makes the task of the cracker harder, but I think history shows that some crackers are more than up to the challenge.

On the subject of Steam, I think we need to take the rought with the smooth for now. Steam is taking things in the right direction, and tbh it is not unreasonable to assume web access is present as part of your system. 5 years from now it will be absurd for any home PC to not have an internet connection (mobile broadband via a USB dongle only costs about Ł10-15 a month).

Steam is ace, but why is it (sometimes considerably) cheaper for me to get a boxed copy of a new game delivered than to download through steam?

Highstreet and online stores can discount boxed games if they want, whereas Steam just tends to sell things for the online rrp.

I recently gave Steam a try and I like it. What's even better is when my computer can't access Steam via the internet it goes into offline mode which allows me to play my game. :)

well i dont know if steam is the new white hope?. I really like the no cd thing. But 1. steam are often more expensive than retail. 2. Why should only one person be allowed to play in the household at the same time. 3 I get tiret of an expensive game i bought on steam. Can i sell it? NO its mine forever, or until steam shuts down their servers.
Steam is still renting, i cannot do whatever i want with my games.

I like steam because of the no cd. But it is far from perfect

It isn't wise to piss off the middle man (retail chain) quite yet. This might be one of the reasons why Steam cannot be too competitive on pricing.

I realise that hardware security systems are not the " complete " solution but as the 360 has demonstrated you need a physical disk to be present for the game to function along side the software security encrypted onto the disk. You have to agree with me that the current system where you can just copy the information from a disk to a hardisk and emulate and the security is so weak it is unsuprising that it is easily abused. Microsoft should be taking the lead in antipiracy technologies that would reasure investors to pump more money into PC exclusives/development and to stop the platform from becoming just for ports.

GTA IV on pc to use securom

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2008/12/01/...

2. Why should only one person be alowed to play in the household at the same time.

Because you've only bought one copy of the game. If you buy the disc version of a game, can two people in the household play it at the same time?

3 i got tiret of an expensive game i bought on steam. Can i sell it? NO its mine forever,

You could say the same of any digital distribution. I can't sell my iTunes albums either.

"until steam shuts down their servers"

Valve has said on numerous occasions that if they were going out of business or couldn't do Steam anymore they would open up their servers, didn't they say they'd open source the code too?

Use your noggin, StooMonster. Who exactly would do that, if they'd gone out of business? If noone was being paid anymore, why would they give a damn about helping you access your games?

That said, Steam is the only PC DRM I will tolerate, because it gives other features as well as taking some away - at least they're TRYING to make it "value-added"...

Oh, and some of you may want to join this Steam group :)

Steam was fucking shit when it started, great now (If a little expensive sometimes).

"Valve has said on numerous occasions that if they were going out of business or couldn't do Steam anymore they would open up their servers, didn't they say they'd open source the code too?"

If they went bust, wouldn't that be up to the receivers? They'd hardly be likely to allow Valve to just give away assets like that if they were bankrupt.

I was a real Steam hater at first, but I love it now. It might be DRM, but the fact is I can play a bit TF2 on my own computer, piss off and use my sisters, go out and use my friends machine and I can still use it - though of course it might need downloaded.

I don't mind because it doesn't limit my options at all, I can still play my game when I want, or install and uninstall it until the cows come home. Sure I can't resell, so I only buy Steam games I want forever. Plus you get all the extra services, and access to demos and even mods now, some of which are as good as full games, so I do like it now.

@theodg
"Steam is ace, but why is it (sometimes considerably) cheaper for me to get a boxed copy of a new game delivered than to download through steam?"

The publishers set the prices and they often set an increased price for games on Steam in Europe because game prices vary so much from country to country over here. I suppose they don't want to miss out on that juicy cash or exchange rate yumminess (wasn't Activision asking for $70 for COD4 at launch over here?)

@Melan
"well i dont know if steam is the new white hope?. I really like the no cd thing. But 1. steam are often more expensive than retail. 2. Why should only one person be allowed to play in the household at the same time. 3 I get tiret of an expensive game i bought on steam. Can i sell it? NO its mine forever, or until steam shuts down their servers.
Steam is still renting, i cannot do whatever i want with my games."

1) Again, the prices are completely up to the publishers, it sucks but that's life, they can also be cheaper than retail quite often (I bought L4D for ~$50 instead of €50). There are frequent discounted offers too.

2) Well, it's a single user logon and you buy a single copy of the game, why would you expect more than one person to be able to use it at a time? As PlugMonkey said if you wanted two people to play with discs you'd have to buy two copies, this is no different. A lease or trial system would be a good idea, to rent a game for one or two nights to play with your friends.

3) You buy the right to play a game, you can't sell that right (you can't legally sell the physical copy either once you've accepted the licence installed and played it, regardless of whether or not it'll stand up in any given court it is a breach of international copyright law).

"I like steam because of the no cd. But it is far from perfect"

As 'perfect' here more than likely means "it lets me do exactly what I want" then I'm not surprised. Nothing is likely to be perfect then.

@ChrisOTR
"Use your noggin, StooMonster. Who exactly would do that, if they'd gone out of business? If noone was being paid anymore, why would they give a damn about helping you access your games?"

Because they're professionals? Because they aren't throwing their rattle out of the pram? At the end of the day some people genuinely do believe in doing what they say, how hard do you think it would be for Valve to patch the last steam update so that it no-longer looks for the Steam servers?

Besides, I can't see them going out of business any time soon, it's a great system with a huge, established customer base and I'd imagine they're making, and will continue to make, money hand over fist with the service.

I've been a fan of steam for a while now. Even at the beginning when it had its problems, I was impressed by the way it took the serial number on the back of my original HL1 case (I hadn't played the game for years and lost the CD) bought years before Steam existed and gave me access to a download of the game, as well as one of the expansion packs, no questions asked.

Back then I knew it had potential and nowadays it is really my preferred way to get PC games.

I am extremely confident that if at any time Steam ceases to be for any reason, people who bought the games will not be left without access. Valve are professionals in everything they do, and I have a lot of confidence in them. But let's face it, even if that did happen, how long would it take for some guy to release a homemade patch that fixes the problem?

@ChrisOTR

"Use your noggin, StooMonster. Who exactly would do that, if they'd gone out of business? If noone was being paid anymore, why would they give a damn about helping you access your games?"

You misunderstand the term "open their servers". They mean they would release the server software, so anybody anywhere could run a Steam server to authenticate the software they had keys for.

"As 'perfect' here more than likely means "it lets me do exactly what I want" then I'm not surprised. Nothing is likely to be perfect then."

+1

(and you can probably get a lot more use out of that comment in numerous EG threads :) )

@Fodder
""Valve has said on numerous occasions that if they were going out of business or couldn't do Steam anymore they would open up their servers, didn't they say they'd open source the code too?"

If they went bust, wouldn't that be up to the receivers? They'd hardly be likely to allow Valve to just give away assets like that if they were bankrupt."

Assets? What assets are those? Accounts that can't be used any more because the servers were shut down? If someone else were willing to take over from Valve and continue Steam after their hypothetical failure then these accounts could be considered assets otherwise they're not really assets. And if Steam continues then there's no real problem.

That's also assuming they go into receivership after going bust, they might not, they might just, in this unlikely hypothetical event, wind up operations and cease trading. Either way, as a Steam customer I'm not terribly concerned by the spectre of bankruptcy for Valve.

@potato_fan_2
"Rapidshare is better."

A compelling argument. You've given us all a lot to think about. ;)

The risk that Steam will expire and there would no solution that would enable me to play Steam games is tiny IMO.

So tiny that it's not even worth wasting a second of my life considering.

If this remote possibly concerns you, then goodness help you because the threat of asteroid impact, avian flu, global financial meld-down must stop you from sleeping.

The only problem with Steam is that it doesn't actually always work. Just like I and other people have had issues with other DRM screwing up, i've been unable to play my Steam games due to totally random issues with valve's software.

Steam is definitely the fairest DRM system around, but it is still DRM. Aside from the whole destruction of consumer rights things, however "nice" your DRM is it always adds just another thing to go wrong when you want to play a game. And let's face it, PCs really don't need any more reasons to go wrong.

Still, if it's Steam, or Securom, I know what i'd take any day.

I still can't see the purpose of DRM, it never stops piracy, it creates issues and bugs with games that make developers jobs harder, it costs money to put on your game increasing the price of it, it has only ever succeeded in turning more people to piracy and to top it all off they don't say on the box that it is on the disk and nor do they tell you that it essentially is malware.

@STKD
"As far as DRM goes, most DRM strategies are just dumb,"
Like Steam, basically. Is anyone still kidding themselves Steam isn't just a tarted up form of DRM since their promise of `faster episodic content` proved garbage..?"

Steam is not DRM, Steam provides a very unobtrusive DRM as part of a online marketplace this encourages publishers to sell their products on Steam.

"(Listen to the Left 4 Dead commentary in the first area if you can without it freezing... they've been working on it since around 2004. Those four small scenarios. Since 2004. Ouch...)"

Never had any problems with the commentary freezing. Yes, the said they've been working on L4D since 2004, however they didn't say (and you, apparently, didn't figure out) that they haven't been working on L4D exclusively since 2004. Did you think that the entire company was working on this? Did you not see the other products Valve has brought out since 2004 (HL2 Episode One and Two, CS:S, DoD:Source, Portal, TF2 and now L4D and probably others).

STEAM used to be pure evil. Sometimes it still is.

It's funny that I don't feel Steam has changed since it was released. For me it's still doing pretty much what it did when I was first forced to use it because of HL2. It's not bad, but it isn't really good or great, either. I'd rather not have it.
And on the subject of HL2, I remember waiting 20 or 30 minutes for it to copy the DVD content to the HDD and then something like 40 minutes to move it over to Steam. NOT a good experience...
And before some one says "If you download the games that doesn't happen", sure, it won't, but that doesn't mean I didn't have to wait more than 1 hour to install HL2. It's like with SecuROM's install limits. Many people, probably most, won't have any need to exceed them, but that doesn't mean it doesn't happen.

PS: And about publishers "getting it", I'll believe it when I see it...

I still can't see the purpose of DRM, it never stops piracy
Actually Steam has stopped 0-day piracy for Steam exclusive releases, i.e. Valve claim that you never see a Steam exclusive game available to pirates before it's launch. I have yet to hear of them being proved wrong.

This is because of what [TR] is complaining about, the reason is that even the disc versions of Steam exclusives have encrypted data-files and those files are only decrypted at the moment of launch (the time it takes to decrypt a couple of gigabytes of data depends on how powerful your PC is) when the servers provide the keys.

Many publishers reckon they lose many of their potential customers to 0-day piracy, their rationale is that even people who would normally buy the game can be turned into a freetard by their impatience. I am surprised that more of them haven't followed Valve's lead and encrypt their games until online authentication.

This is what he's said all along though isn't it? Give the players a service which adds value and people will prefer to pay than to pirate. Valve do a great job of this, which is why PC gamers love them so much. How many other companies are still releasing patches for decade-old games, supporting their modding communities, and providing the dedicated servers and matchmaking / friends list functionality that Valve and Steam provide?

I was warming to the idea of Steam. The first game I contemplated buying on it was FM 2009. Heh.

@ mooks
[it's time to create a encryption system that uses a hardware reading device aswell as software secruity as online activations are easily bypassed.]

Its called a Dongle and the concept has been around for a long time and was broken very quickly.

I'm opposed to DRM purely because I can't play my perfectly legitimate copy of Sacred (bought at full price before the release date) because its DRM prevents it from being played through a DVD-Rewriter. The irony is that if I did get a pirate copy I could play it from my HDD without worrying about the DRM and get better performance.

DRM only screws over the paying public.

If you register each steam game you get to a different username it's easy to pass it on when you're done with it. You can't really re-sell, but I've had no problem swapping steam games for other stuff with my mates.

good to hear geotechnics get a mention

Steam is great. Adds features for legitimate buyers instead of taking them away.

What I dislike most about the store however is that they allow region-based availability (Ubisoft) and region-based pricing (Activision). Take that with the extra VAT for us Europeans and the price tag on Steam isn't interesting anymore, despite it being a digital purchase. Some packs and temporary discounts make it easy though to grab that VISA card.

"Steam is not DRM, Steam provides a very unobtrusive DRM as part of a online marketplace this encourages publishers to sell their products on Steam."

You can't get Steam without DRM therefore Steam = DRM, just not exclusively. Gabe is a hypocritical bastard (and clever marketing wise) when he doesn't mention that and just beats up the kid everyone loves to hate to divert attention.

Bring back codewheels, that's what I say.

Quarantine's code sheet was the best - SAT level maths with a gory finish.