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Valve: boycott Steamworks, miss out News
PC News by Matt Martin
Valve has said that digital distributors who boycott PC games because they ship with Steamworks services are missing out.
Business director Jason Holtman was addressing concerns aired by Direct2Drive, Impulse and Gamersgate, all of which decided not to sell Activision's Modern Warfare 2 because integrated Steamworks tools acted as a storefront for Steam.
"To our minds, we think that if you're making a good game and it's got the services a customer wants it should get out in as many channels as possible. If you have a good portal and you're good at collecting money from folks, and attracting them, there's no reason why you shouldn't be," Holtman told GamesIndustry.biz.
"We try to make those services that developers and our customers want. Whether another distributor wants to carry them or not, we don't have any say in the matter, that's between Activision and other online distributors."
Direct2Drive accused Steamworks of forcing users to install a "Trojan Horse", but Holtman shrugged off the suggestion and said Steamworks had been designed based on feedback from consumers and developers alike.
"The interesting thing is those games that have Steamworks features in them are really made to be the things customers want. Developers are choosing the features that make the game better. There's no service where there are features you have to have, developers are choosing between those."
And he added: "There's a lot of games that came out in 2009 with Steamworks, and they'll be a lot more games in 2010 that have Steamworks."
Valve won't divulge Steam sales but Holtman explained that Modern Warfare 2 had sold on Steam like the game had in shops - enormously, in other words.
"I'm trying to think of a way to put this so you can grasp onto something about the size of it... Steam sales actually scale with the game. So if a game sells better on all channels and it's a blockbuster, it's going to move an awful lot of units on Steam," he revealed.
"As third-party triple-A titles go, it's by and large one of our greatest sellers right now. It's doing very, very well. If you look at the player numbers, you can see there's a lot of people enjoying it - not just playing it - that are constantly enjoying it now. Hats off to Infinity Ward, because they made something that people really want to play," he concluded.
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cianchristopher
26/11/09 @ 16:07
+3
Oooohhhhh, Steam's gonna fuck the rest of those digital retailers up the ass!!!!
And they're gonna like it! |
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PearOfAnguish
26/11/09 @ 16:31
+36
Can see why other companies are not pleased, by selling MW2 they're also giving every customer a copy of an app which competes directly with their business. Don't think it's unfair of them to be a little miffed about that.
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GamesProgrammer
26/11/09 @ 16:38
+8
But buy boycotting it there just forcing there customers to go to steam to buy the game in the first place, and there losing out on a lot of money.
If they want to fight steamworks they need to make a rival service, not boycott the worlds best selling games. |
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cianchristopher
26/11/09 @ 16:39
-3
But at least Steamworks adds value to a game, D2D and the EA store add nothing!
Impulse is moving in the right direction - but they'll always play catch-up to Steam (much like PSN always following behind Xbox LIVE)... |
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+4
It's never good when one single company controls too much of a market - I buy from Impulse whenever I can (that is, whenever its prices are similar/lower than Steam), but since Steam can usually afford to sell their titles for a lower price, it means I end up buying a lot from them anyway. See their current Thanksgiving special: Dragon Age 25% off, Batman:AA 50% off... Steam can afford to do that, smaller services can't.
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-6
Valve/Steam can't be too far away from some kind of legal action for anti-competitiveness. I'm glad I reverted back to console gaming, digital distribution and DRM are (or already have) ruining PC gaming. You cannot even give a PC game away once you're finished with it, let alone part exchange or sell it.
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PearOfAnguish
26/11/09 @ 16:55
+8
"You cannot even give a PC game away once you're finished with it, let alone part exchange or sell it."
Same goes for downloads on consoles. The majority of boxed PC games can still be sold on. Would put money on there being some kind of restriction on second hand console game sales by the time the next generation comes round. "If they want to fight steamworks they need to make a rival service" That's not really practical, is it, and just makes things more complicated for everybody. What needs to happen is for Steamworks to run without requiring the full Steam app.
Edited 1 times,
most recently on 26/11/09 @ 16:56
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0
To Valve: Im always on your side but on this one you said too much crap. This has nothing to do with your services when you were used only to reduce piracy when the online part of the game ( which would be your only other job then pasting and selling through your Steamworks ) such big balls on the PC due to lag and bad results when h osts drop the rounds and hang the rest of the players. Wtf did you ever do about MW2 that was good? Even the online is based on a cloud system which is purrely p2p. Are you serious? Strike one Valve... and a big one. Dont make me loose respect for no reason just cause you felt like flapping your mouth this time. ffs
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+2
Why can't valve just release the sales numbers?
I know that each company has real time updates on units sold as pre what steam works features details so where the boasting? While I know their not sony or microsoft or nintendo surely steam counts as a kinda of platform and companies keep chosing it so there must be some sales communication. It would help back up the PC as a viable plaform in the eyes of PC players and games enthustists if nothing else. |
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0
@PearOfAnguish
"You cannot even give a PC game away once you're finished with it, let alone part exchange or sell it." Same goes for downloads on consoles. The majority of boxed PC games can still be sold on. I believe that when you buy a PC game you're buying the right to play the game and that right is non transferable, the media containing the game just comes with the licence, so to speak. That's why shops like GAME and so on don't allow you to trade in PC games (or even return them if they're opened). Not saying it's right or even all that solid in terms of the law (in whatever jurisdiction you're in) but I believe that's the case. Would put money on there being some kind of restriction on second hand console game sales by the time the next generation comes round. Yep, I'd imagine so, I wouldn't be surprised if they do something with licences and non transferable rights there too. Force you to tie it to an account with a key or some such. |
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+7
There is no doubt it is a trojan horse. Direct2Drive might be a crappy service but they are dead right to oppose games using a competitors technology. As for people who think Steam is the bee's knees, perhaps you should take a look at the prices some time. EU prices are nothing short of a scam, and the old excuse that "publishers set the prices" doesn't cut it when even Valve's own games are more expensive in digital than physical. And that's with competition from other dd services and physical. If they ever gain a monopoly, prices are only going to get worse.
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PearOfAnguish
26/11/09 @ 17:12
+1
"I believe that when you buy a PC game you're buying the right to play the game and that right is non transferable, the media containing the game just comes with the licence, so to speak."
I'm not sure that is right at all. "That's why shops like GAME and so on don't allow you to trade in PC games" GAME might not, but Gamestation definitely accept trade in PC games.
Edited 1 times,
most recently on 26/11/09 @ 17:13
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ignatiusjreilly
26/11/09 @ 17:13
+1
@VicViper
Why should they release the sales information? It's clearly privately owned-data that would be of use to their competitors, and you think they should release it just because the console companies release sales figures every other week in a press release? |
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hiddenranbir
26/11/09 @ 17:17
+6
I don't want Steamworks to come with the Steam Store. Two seperate entities please!
Valve/Steam can't be too far away from some kind of legal action for anti-competitiveness I imagine only the EU will end up taking issue with this, since they're the only ones these days that have challenged monopolies. |
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+3
"Developers are choosing the features that make the game better"
More like "Publishers are choosing the features that make the game harder to pirate, regardless of what consumers actually want". Steam isn't an awful service by any stretch but it could certainly be more consumer friendly. Still, at least it's not Starforce or the more destructive versions of SecuROM. |
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+2
@PearOfAnguish
GAME might not, but Gamestation definitely accept trade in PC games. I'm not sure about the legality of it all however the EULA that you - if you're anything like me - scroll through without reading and accept when you install the game always (AFAIK) states that you're being granted a personal and non transferable licence to use the software. Maybe that non transferable limitation is not enforceable in the UK, I don't know enough about the legal system there (or here, tbh :) ). As I said, "I believe" which roughly translates to "I haven't a clue about the law really, but like to sound like I know things" ;)
Edited 2 times,
most recently on 26/11/09 @ 17:56
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0
@Faldrath
It's never good when one single company controls too much of a market - I buy from Impulse whenever I can (that is, whenever its prices are similar/lower than Steam), but since Steam can usually afford to sell their titles for a lower price, it means I end up buying a lot from them anyway. See their current Thanksgiving special: Dragon Age 25% off, Batman:AA 50% off... Steam can afford to do that, smaller services can't. Valve have stated that Steam don't set the prices, the publishers do, the publishers have to agree to their products being in these sales. There are also sales on the smaller services such as this (from a mail I got yesterday from Impulse). http://www.stardock.com/media/mailers/Th... |
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+1
On the issue about 'no second hand market for Steam games' - that's the main attraction for publishers. You'd have to be seriously business-blind to not see that.
And I can't complain about Steam - I did when it first came out but now I get most of my PC games through it. It's also cheaper than local stores - and it has more price-cut sales than my local stores. |
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+3
@Sneetch: Well, true, but you said it yourself: "the publishers have to agree to their products being in these sales." Valve is the one that suggests them in the first place, and Valve can afford to have, say, Dragon Age on a sale right now. I am aware that Impulse also has its sales, but they rarely feature the blockbuster titles - Valve does it routinely.
A previous piece here on EG says that Impulse reckons Steam currently has 70% of the digital distribution market. And that works just like with physical goods - the big chains can afford to slash prices in a way the small ones cannot. I am not anti-Steam, on the contrary - I've bought plenty of games there, and will likely purchase even more in the future. They provide a very good and useful service. But I wouldn't like to see a monopoly in this sector. |
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YourMessageHere
26/11/09 @ 18:40
+1
Why should they release the sales information?
It's clearly privately owned-data that would be of use to their competitors, and you think they should release it just because the console companies release sales figures every other week in a press release? How can anyone use your own sales information against you, especially when it's way better than your competitors? Besides, if the leading PC download store won't behave transparently in the way console firms do, it seems they have something to hide, which certainly helps to perpetuate this silly myth that "PC gaming is dying" that seems to hang around like persistent athlete's foot. It also gets in the way of working out how well games do at retail across both download and shop-bought copies. I wonder if shareholders get access to that data; if I had the cash to hold shares, I'd certainly like a slice of Valve, and I'd want to know how they were doing. |
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kearneybobs
26/11/09 @ 19:00
+8
Steam (/publishers), Fix you prices here in the EU. CRAZY and RIDICULOUS exchange rates make it so hard for me to buy any games off of steam.
If you continue to price them as they are being priced, I will move to other Digital Download providers. Your loss in the end.
Edited 1 times,
most recently on 26/11/09 @ 19:02
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+3
@YouMessageHere (i'm ignatiusjreilly, forgot my pword)
Sales figures are highly confidential data and there are all sorts of ways competitors could take advantage of that knowledge. It's the same in any business. Valve don't have to answer to to shareholders because they don't have any - they are a private company and that's why they do things differently to other companies who have strict financial obligations. As for releasing figures to prove PC gaming isn't dying - that isn't really Valve's job. If people want to run around screaming that the market is collapsing they can go ahead - Valve will just carry on selling games and I'll carry on playing them. edit: Seriously, why do people here care about sales figures so much? As long as Valve are making enough money to provide great games and stay in business, what does it matter if they aren't even getting close to Halos and CODs? Do you go around demanding to know how many people bought The Wrestler on DVD or downloaded Lady Gaga's new single?
Edited 2 times,
most recently on 26/11/09 @ 19:12
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+7
Gotta wonder if Valve would have the same attitude if a publisher gave them a game to sell that had hooks to D2D in it. Personally I reckon good ol' Gab Newell would do his nut, write a scathing blogpost and then insult the PS3 userbase during the resulting interview.
I'm getting seriously bored with Valve's borderline insanity when it comes to standards and behaviour. Are they seriously saying that they don't get why their competitors are slightly pissed about being forced to sell Steamworks even though it works in direct competition against their own product? Can they really be that detached from reality? |
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brotherbob
26/11/09 @ 20:55
0
Some of the prices on Steam are expensive but if you wait a while you can get a bargain. Go look at the valve complete pack that is on at the moment. 52.99 for 22 games including l4d 1&2, TF2, all half life games and CS games, PORTAL (win) and more.
If you have a decent mid range pc you can run all of them, and you are not fit to be called a gamer imo if you can turn that down and/or bitch about prices on Steam. Do what any sensible buyer does, and wait a bit or you can buy from elsewhere and put a game on Steam via the product key, which is what I did as I paid £20 quid for L4D2 with a staff discount. I can now bin the disc and I have a digital copy forever. |
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hiddenranbir
26/11/09 @ 21:17
+3
Also to note, the path that Steamworks is looking to go is EXACTLY the direction MS wants to take GFWL. Closing the platform up to a single digital distribution/protection/blah blah platform.
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Lord_Gremlin
26/11/09 @ 21:28
0
This made me ask myself a question: why I buy PC games only on Steam now? Even if it's not the cheapest way?
Maybe because it's a reliable and large scale service. Or maybe because it automatically repairs, updates games. |
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freakzilla
26/11/09 @ 21:35
+1
@Faldrath
Yup, monopolies piss me off and it seems America really can't control it, in the processor biz Intel rules, in OS biz MS rules, in digital distribution steam rules, I hope it becomes like ATI vs Nvidia, the competition between these two companies has allowed us great bargains. |
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+1
"Gotta wonder if Valve would have the same attitude if a publisher gave them a game to sell that had hooks to D2D in it. Personally I reckon good ol' Gab Newell would do his nut, write a scathing blogpost and then insult the PS3 userbase during the resulting interview."
There are games on Steam that do this. The EA games all install EADM, East India Company links straight into Impulse. |
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0
From the Sins of a Solar Empire manual:
Obtaining Updates Included with your installation of Sins of a Solar Empire is Stardock‘s Impulse, an exciting new program that makes use of the latest development technologies. From the Demigod website: http://www.demigodthegame.com/purchase/ Stardock's Impulse Required for Updates/Digital Download So it seems that it's ok for Stardock to require you to install their shop in games but not for Steam. They have something called Impulse Drive (which is their stand alone product for handling DRM without a shop front) but chose to install Impulse from disk. Edit: just to clarify, Impulse installs when you install the game.
Edited 1 times,
most recently on 26/11/09 @ 23:30
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bigbadbeasty
27/11/09 @ 00:27
+2
@ Sneetch
But both Demigod and Sins of the Solar empire are published by Stardock. They are not complaining about Valve doing this with L4D2, but they are about a third party title. Surely anyone can see why the competitors are objecting? Valve totally dominating the market IS a bad thing for us as customers. As a long time user and a fan of Steam, this whole issue does genuinely worry me. I totally get why a publisher would want to do this, and I like being able to access my games without a disk through Steam, but being forced into that option is not something I like at all. I used to think (probably wrongly) that Valve were a bit more of a 'in touch with the fans', almost hippy games company. However now I feel that they are getting far nearer the bigger boys like the EA's and Activision's of this world. |
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+1
@ignatiusjreilly
I can understand the confidentiality part if thats the reason then fair enough but at the moment we have all these PC Games sales happening but no-one is aware of how many as no one will say and I suppose its not really a specific thing that valve actually controls as its data that the companies ultimately have final say one. I guess I've just heard so many sites etc doing numbers coverage and then saying that that they have no idea what a certain steam game has done as no-one ever says, its always a vague its 'selling well', curiosity has got the better of me I think and I'm just interested
Edited 1 times,
most recently on 27/11/09 @ 00:44
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TheBoyChris
27/11/09 @ 12:31
+3
Steam might be the high and mighty DD client, but they can't write a responsive UI for it. Takes bloody ages to boot and stalls very often.
/grumble |
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