Uphill Struggle Comments by Rob Fahey

I'm lucky enough to have all of the consoles without worry about any financial problems as I got them all for nothing. Overall I agree with the article completely, the PS3 is by far and away the best made console without any doubt, but the price is what brings it down in my view, I have friends who are just not willing to pay out for it, they have no opinion about which is faster, better graphics etc - just the price. Once it drops I can see it selling far far better, though it isn't selling that badly anyway.

Though is saying about the price of it, again I still feel the PS3 offers better value for the price in terms of what it comes with, Wi-Fi and Blu-Ray, but a lot of buyers still don't use a HD-TV anyway.

In fairness to all consoles though - anyone saying the PS3 itself is shit really shouldn't bother posting as they clearly have no clue about hardware and reliability. Software side is another thing.

"Microsoft's superior software"
Written with no irony whatsoever?

As an aside: can someone please explain to me what is so vastly "superior" about MS's online services such that they would actually be worth paying for? its been nagging at me for ages.

ozzit: for an example of just one feature, click the username of any eurogamer who has bothered to put their Live account in their profile.

@ ozzit - anyone with all the consoles wouldn't need to ask that. The 360 software is far far better than that of the PS3, much easier to use, so much more available, easier to find. Friends lists so much easier to manage and chat, everything integrated together so well. The mutliplayer side of things to me isn't worth paying out for - I still feel the PSN multiplayer side of things has worked perfectly for me with all titles I've used just as well as Live has. But software side - no question, 360 wins hands down and that was even before NXE came out to improve things again.

£300 is far too much, especially after 2 (?) years on release. The previous generations launched at that price for gawd's sake. That's only the PS ones as well. The DC was £200, the GC something like £150 and the Wii was £180.

I think you can trace most of Sony's issues back to being fundamentally too slow at producing software. Featureless XMB at launch, still no GT5, Killzone being shown in 2005 (albeit as a render) but only now coming out, no movie rentals outside of the US, and they were beaten to the punch there too. Late and therefore inconsistent in-game support for voice, trophies and custom soundtracks.

Regarding the marketing; I think it goes hand-in-hand with their other problems. People looking for a Blu-ray player can get that significantly cheaper elsewhere, likewise a console. Without any significantly well known "only on PS3" thing to show, it's difficult to advertise on TV at the same time as the £179 Wii and £129 Xbox 360.

PS3s advantages are simply not tangible enough in a market that isn't really looking for a high-end big ticket product.

The number one issue has to be marketing.

Q: How many xbox ads did you see over xmas? A: Craploads.
Q: How many PS3 ads did you see? A: One. Possibly. If you went to the cinema.

Even MS have been quoted as saying that over marketing it, having done "launch level marketing" (their words). They've successfully managed to get joe public to think "xbox=games" and possibly "oh yeah, there's this other playstation thing"

The headline price of the 360 will get a lot of people buying arcades, but for what you get, the PS3 is comparable in value, at least to anyone who can add up. (XBL @ £35, wifi £50, hard drive $40).

I'm not convinced on the argument for live selling lots of xboxes outside of core gamer demographic. I bet there's lots of punters who still never connect to the internets.

"It is when for £200 or less you can basically have something which - for the majority at least - offers pretty much the same stuff."

By the time you buy the additional extras for the 360 (wireless adaptor, extra disc space etc) that price differential is reduced somewhat. For the 360 to offer the same as what the PS3 does out of the box you have to spend a bit more money. However, the point does still stand, the price is a very significant factor - and most people buying a console right now would lean towards the 360 over the PS3. Shame, as I love both consoles, but it seems the PS3 is going to finish dead last this round.

@byron

"anyone with all the consoles wouldn't need to ask that."

Quite right, hence the question :)

Cheers for the answer by the way, I'm glad there is more to it than being made to pay to play online.

Main reason I dont buy games for my PS3 is I bought my PS3 when sony said Dual Shock was old tech so I dont have rumble, the games on 360 seem to have more DLC and Xbox Live. Plus the SIXAXIS controller is pants, way too light and cramps my thumbs.

I think one thing that hasn't really helped the PS3 is that this generation there are far less exclusives. The competition is a lot cheaper and many of the games that were exclusive to the Playstation have now become multiplatform so for many it's just a price issue.

Actually Sony PS3 isn't doing too bad considering the almost double price point. But it's nowhere near the stellar performance of the PS2... ironically it looks like the Xbox 360 is the "PS2" of the HD generation. It come early to market, had a lot of quality problems and is cheaper.

Meanwhile Nintendo is really printing money with NDS and Wii, which must bother Sony much more.

The real reasons why PS3 isn't firing on al cylinders are:
1. It's not really a good value - don't get me wrong I bought my PS3 for 600 EUR on launch day, and I consider it a "fair" price for what's in the box, but actually most people don't need Blu-ray, DVD-playback or Super Audio CD support. What they might want is B/C for PS2 games which was removed in the later models.

2. Only a few exclusive must-have games, nameley Uncharted and Metal Gear Solid 4... that's it. And the real deal is GTA IV and FFXIII also on Xbox 360 (with more content sometimes).

3. Sony's marketing is really lazy these days. I remember times where PS2 was out there on every billboard, tv commercial etc.etc.etc. But for PS3 it's not enough. Also Microsoft gets the hype for mediocre games like Halo 3 (yeah, it's really not that great!) much better done.

The 'PS3 is better value' argument just doesn't add up. It costs £170 (less if you shop around) for a 360 WITH a HD, everything else available on the PS3 is unnecessary for a games console.

jonsaan: 'Ah yes, my ability to not quibble over 40-50 quid makes me bourgeois, silly me. I would argue that your willingness to pay 60 quid for a wireless adaptor, 40 quid for LIVE services, 20 quid for a quick charge kit and 60 quid for a hard drive makes you more bourgeois than I. And a bastard to boot ;) '

My 360 isn't online :)

If I want multiplayer I have actual friends to invite round to play with (edit: they bring their own controllers). I don't have arcade; I have the 60GB model bundled in with some very high quality games for £180.

Kinda scraps your argument doesn't it?

Inproper use of 'I' btw - if you want to convey a feeling of superiority over me, at least don't screw your basic grammer up and look like an idiot.

Anyway, I posted that comment with a whiff of humour. Sorry if it didn't come across - the internet is kind of rubbish at subtlety.

Life time sales. Like for like by date the PS3 is ahead of the 360 still...

Don't agree. I like my 360 for the software, but contrary to my older PS3 I am constantly worried about it falling apart. The 360 doesn't really radiate trustworthiness and it is clearly build to the bare minimum specs.

About the only console that radiates trustworthiness is my original gameboy which still works. Also, I don't want you to get worried but there are rumours about blu-ray drive death ;)

Nicely balanced article. The price point and lack of quality exclusives from last gen are the main issues I think. Want to play GTA? FF? Devil May Cry?

It's a shame the new IP's like LBP aren't doing it for them.

For 2009, nobody is predicting - no matter how cautiously - that it might be Sony's year

Except for the whole of Internet. Again.

I thought this was a nicely balance articled from someone who clearly knows both consoles well. I think the 360 or PS3 could be as successful as the PS2 when the prices come down though. Remember that the PS2 has been dirt cheap for ages now - if Microsoft continue to support the 360 for long enough (unlikely I admit) it could probably do it. The PS3's reliability and Sony's penchant for long-term plans mean I'm not counting them out either!

hmm imtresting read and to be honest i agree while a ps3 owner myself i have noticed this. thing is if i didnt have a laptop or access to any of these sites id be completly oblivious to all of this.

frankly its how i want it to be really like the ps1 and ps2 days console wars raged online on pc and and companys but me well i was buying my OPSM mag with demo disks happyly not knowing or learning anything about it.

out of site out of mind is how i'd like it and i would quit these sites and go back to the old ways and i could

but ive been exposed to it to much and i know and cant forget about it all so i can only stay and watch as people tear into consoles and the slow fate comes around that maybe just maybe we have another dreamcast storyline on the cards .....

But..but...the PS3 has da cell and teh bluray!!!!!ROTFLMAO!!!!!!

I actually think Rob pretty much nailed this thing on the head with his World of Warcraft comparison. I mean,look at that game - it's basically geek nirvana and yet millions of 'regular' folk buy, pay the subs and forget how to do things like wash themselves because they become so addicted.

A significant part of the Wii's success is the introduction factor, whereby non-gamers are exposed to the Wii and have fun bowling or playing tennis or whatever and decide to buy one for themselves. It was also no doubt helped in part by the press, who just couldn't stop talking about it to the point where even your gran would know what a Wii was.

Xbox Live definitely goes some way to emulating this kind of purchasing behaviour - once enough members of a circle of friends buy a 360, the majority of those yet to buy a console do tend to also buy a 360. It's easier to lend/borrow games and peripherals for a start, and with Xbox Live, it means you can play online - which IS becoming more and more mainstream.

The PS3 is still displaying a too high price for normal people and you can argue about how it's cheaper to buy it all-in and right from the start until you're blue in the face; that if you want wifi on a 360, it starts costing the same as the PS3, which is kinda true, but ask yourself this: If normal, regular folk aren't going to buy a 3o60 and then gradually add extras onto it over time, because to do so would mean paying a higher price in the end, then how the bloody hell do Littlewoods and all the catalogues and websites that let you pay on finance stay in business? And who do you think their customers are? It certainly won't be the people who can afford to pay full price up-front with 0% interest. It's the people who can't afford £1000 in one go for a new TV, but can afford £50 a month, even if it means they almost double the cost of their new purchase.

The PS3 is perceived to be too expensive for normal people, especially now of all times. The fact that buying a 360 and then adding extras to it may cost them more over a longer period is inconsequential.

The games industry will not start again when the next batch of consoles comes around.
Why simple because we are heading for a massive crash studios are already shutting.
Putting out propoganda like the games industry is ok in a recession is grade A bullshit.
Mark my words the games industry will hit the dirt before the next batch of consoles is out.
Saying the ps3 is to expensive is correct but its complete unlike the 360 which you have to pay 40 quid online,60 quid network adapter and 15 quid play and charge.
M$ rapes the shit out of you on extras.
Shocks me to see how many dumb people havent figured it out yet.

Gaming is here for good now I think . That doesn't mean the market won't shrink in a recession but no way will there be a collapse. However if it did collapse that would be worse for wii as that is the casual gamer console. Hardcore gamers are more likely to own 360s and ps3s and hardcore gamers will be more likely to stick with gaming.

lol yeah, RIP PS3

now roll on Killzone2!!

The reason the 360 sells so well these days is because its so easy to chip pirate 360 games are a fiver round these parts now.

The increase in revenue by putting in full backwards compatibility will probably be negated by the increase in cost.

So in the grand scheme of things, it probably won't make a difference.

just my 2 cents.

study how to be alive!!

People keep saying that they think the Dualshock is outdated and that Sony are afraid to have a new controller design.

Does anyone remember the boomerang controller?

The article puts too much emphasis on 2008. Especially considering MS' statement that the 360's life cycle will be stretching past 2010, similar to Sony's PS3 planning.

This'll be a long breath race and 2009/2010 will be a crucial year for PS3 developers : Developers from Killzone 2 and Uncharted 2 are finally showing what really can be done with PS3's potential AND potentially sell lots of software units.

So, has 360 development hit a proverbial ceiling already and will it really have to sit out a long life cycle while PS3's development is finally picking up steam ? This year's GDC might confirm PS3 development improving, swaying many developers back to PS3 afterall.

"So, has 360 development hit a proverbial ceiling already and will it really have to sit out a long life cycle while PS3's development is finally picking up steam ?"

Dude it must be clear by now that the PS3 hardware is not superior to the 360. Both are the same. Stop wanting for the potential... it isn'tthere.

As to the potential thing, I can only say as a blind person that blu-ray, by it's definition has given me more potential. Potential to enjoy more movies. They have more audio description services on blu-ray films, probably because of the space. I've been able to watch things i'd not normally bother with, imagine watching say "rambo" with your eyes shut and no description as to what's happening?

The other potential for me would be the fact that blu-ray games may have more commentary in them. A lot of the sports games are good now, what would they be like if someone actually made a couple of them exclusive to blu-ray? Perhaps smackdown could be that way, not that it probably will be. It's all just ideas of mine really, but even if you don't have an HDTV, blu-ray can still have it's uses.

Bottom line: it's not a hardware problem. It's a management problem.
Price, a lack of AAA titles(which Xbox 360 managed to attract) and a poor understanding of the market. Add to that a poor developped online service and the fact that Sony didn't managed to attract too many 3rd party developpers, the complaints about how horrendous Sony game developpment kit is and it is pretty much clear that Sony should fire some of its CEO and replace them with someone who has a better understanding of how to run a gaming business(one can dream...).
Not the hardware is at fault, but how everything else was managed.

@niteninja, "Saying the ps3 is to expensive is correct but its complete unlike the 360 which you have to pay 40 quid online,60 quid network adapter and 15 quid play and charge.
M$ rapes the shit out of you on extras.
Shocks me to see how many dumb people havent figured it out yet. "

And by the time you buy a HDMI cable (as the PS3 isn't HD "out of the box"), a new Hard Drive because of all the mandatory installs and the Sony remote to properly use Bluray, it becomes more expensive all over again. Notwithstanding that the DS3 are also more expensive than the 360 controllers, so buy more of those and the price increases further.

Shocks me to see how many dumb people havent figured it out yet.

A HDMI cable is about 5 quid, the hard drive is plenty big considering you can delete game data that you're finished with plus not every game has a mandatory install and i wasn't even aware of the existance of a Blu-Ray remote because you can use the joypad to control playback.

The DS3 is dearer than the 360 pad but each 360 pad also needs to have a play and charge kit bought for it.

The problem is simple.

Sony gambled the PS3 against Blu Ray winning the HD format wars. They pushed up the component price in order to make Blu Ray a profitable beast.

Problem was, despite winning the gamble; Blu Ray hasn't become a new DVD. It's now fighting downloads and consumer apathy.

If we'd all decided to buy Blu Ray players, then Ps3 would have shot off shelves. But its not worked out like that.

Sony have got a loss making console in a loss making company; they can't cut down the price in case people fear a Jaguar style panic clearout. They also can't afford it.

The only way Sony will get out of this is to make Blu Ray ESSENTIAL for film fans. A few good exclusives will help, but MS know that and are doing their best to prevent anything not made by SCEA/J/E being PS3 only.

Oh and the lack of GT doesn't help.

@Knot
The article puts too much emphasis on 2008.

I'm afraid Sony is partly to blame for that, what with 2008 supposedly being/been "the year of ...".

@spudsbuckley,

See, arguments can be made for each. Of course you don't need a play and charge kit for each controller, as must households now have things like digital cameras and therefore will also have a supply of rechargable batteries and chargers. With the PS3, the machine actually has to be switched on for DS3 charging to work, so there are extra costs for electricity and whatnot.

Why it is that the machine wasn't designed to provide power to the USB ports when it is switched off I don't know.

Hard drive? Most people on forums seem to talk about how they've installed a 320GB hard drive when challenged about mandatory installs. Sure, it's not an actual requirement, but then neither are play and charge kits, Wireless dongles and various other "additions" spouted by fanboys when trying to explain how the 360 is more expensive than the PS3. And I'd actually say that a large HD is more important once you have a decent game collection, as it's kinda stupid when a friend comes around to play GameX and you have to uninstall another game to make space and then install another one before being able to play it. Yes, not all games require an install, but enough of them do to make HD size an issue.

HDMI for 5 squids? Yes, there are places online where you can get cheap cables. But buy your PS3 in Comet or Game and you are looking at a minimum of 20 quid. It's either that, or buy it, look online, place an order and wait a week or two for it to be delivered for whatever price you can find plus postage. Better would be to have HDMI in the box I'd have thought.

As for being able to use the DS3 for media menu navigation, sure you can do it. Of course, the DS3 doesn't have a pwoer-down mode so you're using the batteries all the time and have to recharge with (with the PS3 on of course) more often. Also, the DS3 is designed for gaming, a media remote is designed for navigating media. It just looks and works better.

as we're on to potential: bluray certainly has the capacity to offer devs with big budget productions more ambition. there is no doubt it can become a differentiator, whether publishers view large scale game productions as economically viable is questionable at this stage...

how on earth did we get to media remotes? anyway, the remote is very good on PS3 and of course if you are that way inclined then you will buy it. but it isn't necessary as the pad is perfectly workable and can be turn off at will very easily. 360 doesn't come with a remote either so this "hidden costs work both ways" is... fanboy propaganda.

;o)

@Rob Fahey

Firstly, Sony's superior hardware (and I say that purely in the sense of its number of expensive components - arguments over its actual power are really not of interest to the majority of consumers) seems to make the PS3 into a much more expensive system to build than its rival.

FIXED

@rotmm

'as must households now have things like digital cameras and therefore will also have a supply of rechargable batteries and chargers'

Yeah, because when the batteries run out in a joypad mid-game it's prefectly acceptable to have to wait for them to recharge before being able to play again rather than just playing on while a battery pack charges like the DS3 or 360 pad and battery pack 0_o

'Most people on forums seem to talk about how they've installed a 320GB hard drive when challenged about mandatory installs.'

There's no need for a 320gb hard drive on either machine. That's just fanboy willy-waving in sigs on PS3 forums.

'HDMI for 5 squids? '

I bought a HDMI cable in Zavvi the other day for a fiver. If you pay anymore than a tenner for a decent lenght one you deserve to be ripped off.

'As for being able to use the DS3 for media menu navigation, sure you can do it. Of course, the DS3 doesn't have a pwoer-down mode so you're using the batteries all the time and have to recharge with (with the PS3 on of course) more often. Also, the DS3 is designed for gaming, a media remote is designed for navigating media. It just looks and works better.'

The exact same can be said about the 360 being used for DVDs. Plus you're obviously going to have the PS3 turned on when watching a Blu Ray disc or DVD so you can charge the controller then.

I personally own all three current consoles and i think the PS3 is better value out of the box by a tiny amount. The 360 is under-spec in it's vanilla form and while the Elite goes some way to addressing this it still needs at least a wireless adapter and a play and charge kit to compete with a vanilla PS3 and even then it still can't play Blu Ray. The Wii is a complete anomally however because it's just terrible and yet it's trouncing both the PS3 and 360. Mine is just an expensive dust collecting impulse buy :(

I have to say this is the first generation since I have been earning money that I haven't just bought all the consoles that really is a testament to the lack of value the PS3 offers to me personally.

Right now I can play blu-ray/HD-DVD and a good amount of games on my PC. The wii has the occasional good game for me and keeps my other half and nephew quiet. The 360 is getting less use now as multi platform goes to the PC most of the time, but when I bought it my PC was nowhere near playing games to that standard now its used for the occasional 360 exclusives and some where the 360 is a better option than the PC.

At £425 I didn't even look at the PS3, by the time it came down to £300 my PC had surpassed it in games and could play blu-ray.

So now its only hope for me to buy it is some amazing exclusives and a huge price drop, if it was £150 I would buy it right now as there is enough interesting games for that, but the current price for something I don't really need its a no sale.

To sum it up, the PS3 was too late and too expensive.

Nice, objective article.

I'm interested in the reference to services. Apart from shops (games, films, tunes) and on-line gaming servers, - oh, and IM - do you expect to see more from Microsoft? Do you expect 360's to turn into the equivalant of standard-build PCs?

@rotmm - actually the DS3 can be powered down after a certain amount of time of not being used. It is set through the XMB

@byron,

That's true of course, but just goes to highlight the unsuitability for media control. The DS3 turns off after (eg) 30 mins, an hour into a BluRay the phone rings or someone is at the door, you have to press the button to power on the DS3, wait a couple of seconds for it to connect and only then pause the movie and answer the door/phone/whatever.

Small things sure, but doesn't happen on a remote.

I have to say that the remote for blu-ray is essential for a blind user. Firstly, it has the dedicated buttons for audio and so on, and secondly, it's a lot easier to locate the various buttons as it's a more tactile experience using it. The fact that the audio button is dedicated makes it easier for me personally.

rotmm, what you on about? do you get a remote to do media on 360? no. the DS3 can be turn off when ever you like: hold the ps button and switch off controller. and instead of pausing i would turn down the volume, take the call and rewind the film at my own leisure. all depends on how you want to look at it...

@ Dizzy " Dude it must be clear by now that the PS3 hardware is not superior to the 360. Both are the same. Stop wanting for the potential... it isn'tthere. "

FFS Damnit, don't twist my words. Nowhere am I claiming anyone's supposedly "superiority" over the other.

However, no one can deny that development of games such as KZ2, Uncharted 2, Heavy Rain etc. prove an improved PS3 development situation, steadily evaporating that forever after untapped potential anti PS3 fanboy myth. A clear situation before - situation after case.

Whether that results in better PS3 sales numbers remains to be seen, but it's an undeniable healthier development situation for PS3 with Game Developer Conference 09 as a possible turn-the-tide landmark, where studios such as ND and GG will share some hefty tech for PS3 developers.

Next Generation around to beat the credit crunch Microsoft and Sony should team up, split the costs of console gaming. let microsoft handle the software side and Sony the hardware side. I have both the XBOX 360 and the PS3 and my xbox is still a launch one too boot!. XBOX is the better machine for gaming by far. I don't care what anyone else says. The PS3 is fantastic aswell but i really only use it for blu-ray movies.