Uphill Struggle Comments by Rob Fahey

Anyone who thinks that a wireless adapter means that the connection to the internet is better is an utter fool. A wireless system is only for convenience, for people who don't like to have cables everywhere. Anyone who knows what is what know that a network cable is and will always be better than wireless. A wireless connection is alot more unstable and is sensitive to outward influence - highest possible speed is 54mbps. A network cable is only suspectible to influences from the user and the network speed is normally either 100mbps or 1gbps (I suspect that consoles use a 100mbps network card).

I lost all respect for Sony because of their representatives prior to the next gen console release. A few Playstation PR guys were basically just trolling in the media. Acting like stuck-up high-class self-important oblivious-to-consumers bignobs. Basically saying that they didn't care for the consumer, the consumer would just have to deal with what they created and the price they put on it - and the consumer would buy it! Yes, they were basically dissing their own consumers. Good job.

I'd also like to point out that if Blu-Ray would have lost its battle against HD-DVD the PS3 would have had a really hard time being sold. Microsoft had little involvement with the developement of HD-DVD or pushing the format. A wise decision on their part, in hindsight. HD-DVD did not become a part of the X360, most likely because of costs (and then resulting price towards the consumer). Sony, however, had a hand in the developement of HD-DVD but they broke off - a disagreement on something, if I remember correctly - and went on to develop their own format. Something that took a long time and alot of money; part of which went into some major copy protection developement that was eventually scrapped. Then they spent some more good sums of money "convincing" movie studios that Blu-Ray was better than HD-DVD.
The biggest feud I have against Blu-Ray is that to make a Blu-Ray disc (former) DVD factories needed a great big equipment overhaul. With HD-DVD you could pretty much use the same equipment as a DVD - which results in lower costs of production, which would have resulted in lower costs for the consumer if HD-DVD had prevailed.
Will Nintendo go into developing their own format? Movies on Vinyl?!

retibra, articles like this poorly considered write up by supposed experts doesn't help. thankfully these publications don't hold much weight in the mainstream. in fact alot of the views on this thread aren't in tune with mass market perception of the platform. resignation to the system's price is largely agreed to be the general view. i believe the platform is in the ascendency, with a raft of exclusives set to define the consoles mainstream credentials and a price drop eminent, i'm not cautious at all when i suggest this could the system's defining year.

@Rash': Because mainstream similar to Fox News is so much more "experty"?

If a person is writing an article there will always be the opinion factor in there, it is unmistakably human.

Spekingur, as i said, this writer's analysis pays too much credit to MS's achievements in the online space when the sales numbers demonstrate consumers don't recognise that as a differentiator worth investing in. the figures speak for themselves.

Yes, the figures speak for themselves. Everyone is buying a Wii.

How many AAA games are on the Wii? How good is the online system on the Wii? Casual gaming is all in all good but in the end it is the hardcore gamer that is more willing to spend more money than any casual gamer (just look at PC gaming).

Spekingur, and the dedicated gamers will spend money on games like Madworld, Sin and Punishment 2, Muramasa: The Demon Blade, Dragon Quest, Monster Hunter tri, Tatsunoko vs Capcom... That argument is lame, but let's not digress. 360 is the cheapest system on the market with the best online infrastructure and the largest, as you put it, hardcore collection of games and yet after considerable price cuts it stays flat in YoY sales. i'm talking about sales reflecting the appeal products hold for consumers. it seems that so far the mass market doesn't get the 360.

'the dedicated gamers will spend money on games like Madworld, Sin and Punishment 2, Muramasa: The Demon Blade, Dragon Quest, Monster Hunter tri, Tatsunoko vs Capcom... That argument is lame, but let's not digress.'

It's not, name me 3 good games that a relatively hardcore gamer would enjoy that came out on the Wii last year. I bet you can't. Games that are coming up can't really be counted on for your argument either; as there is still a possibility of them being either cancelled (extremely unlikely) or really rather crap.

'360 is the cheapest system on the market with the best online infrastructure and the largest, as you put it, hardcore collection of games and yet after considerable price cuts it stays flat in YoY sales. i'm talking about sales reflecting the appeal products hold for consumers. it seems that so far the mass market doesn't get the 360.'

They don't seem so flat to me, all these years after release and in competition with both the monolithic Wii and the superior hardware of the PS3, the 360 is turning profit, increasing its sales and its presence in the online community?

But yeah, the mass market doesn't get the 360, nor the PS3; because the mass market is full of mummies and daddies buying Wii's.

I agree with this article that Microsofts Online service isn't as important as its been made out to be, nor is hardware superiority. Mass market consumers don't give a flying fuck about DLC, and you can gurantee that they aren't aware that the 360 version of GTA IV has dlc in the pipeline.

The biggest drivers are Games, cost and advertising. And while Sony's finally getting the games side right, its advertising and especially cost thats killing them.
Another aspect that has been totally ignored is the HD barrier, don't underestimte the number of kids, college students and teenagers that don't own HD TV's, and rely on old hand me down tv's for game playing, thats what first deterred me from buying a HD console. If you have only an old 50 hz sd tv, then the only machine you can be sure will work fine on it is thew Wii.

I still think though, that in europe, the Sony brand alone is strong enough that they can still beat Microsoft and claim the number 2 spot.

@Rash, "what you on about? do you get a remote to do media on 360? no."

Nope. But of course any universal remote works just as well, on top of the numerous "cheap" 360 remotes available.

" the DS3 can be turn off when ever you like: hold the ps button and switch off controller. and instead of pausing i would turn down the volume, take the call and rewind the film at my own leisure. all depends on how you want to look at it... "

Yes, it's always much better to turn down the volume, go answer the door, deal with whoever is there and come back, turn on the DS3, hit rewind and follow the onscreen action to find out where you were, press play, turn up the volume, turn off the DS3 and then return to your favourite movie-viewing position.

In fact, whoever invented the Pause function was clearly out of their mind. Sony should just remove it from ALL their products. Your way is much better.

You have to press a button to pause a film??.. I would have thought that the PS3 would have been powerful enough to know that somebody had rang your doorbell, pause itself and then resume the film when you returned.

Actually, i thought the cell would have been capapble of giving you a 30 second round up showing relevant clips of the paused film to remind you where you had got to.

lol @ Rash'...awesome, knew he would be all over this article like a pig in shit.

I don't know, I own a 360 and a ps3 and find the ps3 interface better, its simple, easy to naviagte and has no adverts. the online is pretty good tbh, you have to remember that you have to pay upto £40 a yr for microsofts online service and the only benifit as far as i can see is that you can party up and invite friends easier than on the ps3.. Im not saying that xbox live is bad as it is not its an excellent online service.. more that I think the xbox is selling more than the ps3 beacuse of other reasons..

I also own both the proper consoles and the only game on wii i have really been annoyed at missing was BoomBlocks which havign played it is utterly brilliant.

As other have said the PS3 is the better made device in terms on build etc. Main issues having had mine for 18months and the 360 since launch are these.

The PS3 controller is piss poor, really is, i loved Uncharted :Drakes fortune, great game, but had to stop so many times from crippling hand ache> i got call of duty 4 on PS 3 last year same thing.

The PS3 is stupidly expensive, here in Madrid in the run up to chistmas a decent 360 pack was about 269 euros i.e. 1 or 2 games you want plus machine with HD. A PS3 was around 399 with 1 game, usuall LBP, which was never gonna be a seller in a country where people who think they are gamers play fifa.

The PS3 has a piss poor library of exclusives. Uncharted was blinding for me but i cant think of any other must buys this gen in the Sony camp. OK MGS 4 for a lot for people, there are a lot of deent thign comign out this year, Killzone 2 looks great but how many console shooter fans are going to have waited half way through this generation and then decided to buy a PS3. About 2 people, the xbox has been the place to be for shooter since the launch of the first one.

The 360 has a huge library of exclusives or at least titles that came out first on it. 99% of the time those games run better on 360 than PS3 and if your a fan of online multiplayer well lets the 360 is a no brainer. The machine may be a bit cheap, and very modular i mean who buys a fuckign core/arcade whatever unless it is to replace a rrod one, but the fact is a machien which is you are tight as a duck arse can be bought for £130 but almost always performans better than the PS3 in multiformat games.
The thing is MS have simply done a hugely better job this time around on all the other thing. They designed a great box of tricks, ok it has been woefully unreliable but the actual chip design etc is so much simpler than the PS3 and yet consistantly beats it.

In many ways thoguht the PS3 is actually the nicer box to use, its quiter, great with media playback, decentish webbrowser.

I think both camps ahve learnt a lot this generation, i personally think that Moore did a stunning job in turnign around the xbox division before he jumped ro was pushed due the the rrod issues.
Sony produced a nice machine but this time lost out buy simply being too arrogant( you dont need rumble, you need to save to buy our device, we can just build it and the developers will fall over themselves to work on it etc etc... not signing up many if any exclusives.

They really had this generation to loose and did so in stunning fashion

I really don't think that exclusives, online service, reliability, media functions, controller preference or games have anything to do with it.

At the end of the day, the PS3 just arrived too late, and too expensive.

If it was released in November 2006 for £250, then it would almost certainly be in first place this generation, regardless of exlusives, online service etc. The guy on the street just wants to play FIFA and Need For Speed on his playstation, he isn't aware of console/publisher exclusivity.

Hell, I have (stupid) PS3 owning friends who think Gears of War is coming out on PS3, and my Dad is still waiting for Call of Duty 4 to come out on Wii!! That just goes to show how unaware the public is of console exclusive games, and how unimportant they are outside the informed hardcore market ...

Don't overerestimate the old (pre Wii) casual market, they are grossly uninformed, and would be happiest sticking to what they know --- PlayStation and EA Sports

All Sony had to do is give it to them for a reasonable price, in a reasonable timeframe, and they fucket that up bady, because they were arrogant, late, and forced Blu Ray on us, jacking up hardware prices, simultaneously winning the HD video format war (to little benefit), and losing the much more important console war.

Never has a company been so completely responsible for its own downfall through arrogance

@lefizz

Well said, Sony shot themselves in the foot by behaving in such arrogant manner. Goes to show that even a multi-billion dollar corporation can be run by incompetent people. And on another note I would like to applaud lefizz on his straightforward unbiased opinion; you are a sort of Sancho Panza in this sea of Don Quixotes which we call EG.

By all means I don't expect the PS3 to be £150 any time soon, I know the technology in there is worth more than that, just the point of with all that tech the only bits I would need is worth about £150

I love the arithmetic PS3 fanboys come up with to justify the price difference. Oddly, they forget to factor in the cost of buying a PS2 if you want to have any compatibility at all for your old games, and a new house if you want the absurdly fucking enormous media remote. So really, the PS3 is more expensive by roughly £185,100.

This article is spot on. An extrememly balanced and informed view of the market as it stands.

I can't be bothered reading all the posts but safe to say, anyone disagreeing with this article is a narrow-minded moron deeply afraid that they invested in the wrong machine.

And yes, I love my PS3.

Although, on refelection, perhaps there is one issue this article doesn't address.

I perhaps would trade my PS3 on the basis of a weak exclusive title portfolio, but I'll be damned if I trade in my Blu-Ray player.

They are appearing in supermarket now y'know. The format war is over. Perhaps 2009 will be the year of Blu-Ray in which case, Sony's gamble of making the PS3 a Blu-Ray trojan horse may yet pay off.

rotmm, if, for a platform notorious for it's expensive proprietory add-ons, all you can offer is universal remotes, believe me, it isn't much to gloat about... but i'm sure you'll disagree.

edit. i thought i'd humour you and decided to see what the issue with the pad was (which i'm using to type this post). 2 secs. 2 SECS!!! you're making a fuss over the 2 secs it takes betwen you pressing the ps button and the pad fully registering with the console. man that's sad and depressing. you my friend are clutching real hard there.

" In late 2008 Blu Ray got an enormous boost through movies like The Dark Knight. In that instant 600.000 copies were sold on the first Day in the US and Canada alone. After a week 38% of the Units of this Movie sold were Blu Ray Discs."

Wikipedia

Fender, agreed it is about games, cost and advertising. however, if your product is priced out of the mass market, it makes little financial sense to invest big in advertising. when sony drop price that's when they'll advertise big, as that's where the larger percentage of sales lie. MS did it last year and Sony will... return the favour.

incidentally how did you come to the conclusion the article was suggesting online isn't important. it raved on about MS's online service and regularly implied that's the area Sony need to address.

@Rash

The focus on online is still one that's less important than its advocates would claim, but this generation is the transition - it's the last generation of hardware in which any significant percentage of consoles will not be online

This is the part that suggested that online isn't important to the mainstream, which I wholeheartedly agree in.

I actually disagree with almost everyone on exclusives, to the hardcore (us) they're deal breakers, but for the casual market... well the casual market isn't really aware of them like I said in my above post. All they want is a cheap PlayStation to play FIFA, NFS and Gran Turismo on. For all they know GeoW is coming to PS3, and Gran Turismo is coming to 360

A better yardstick to measure PS3, X360 and Wii is....time!

Come January 2010 we here will be discussing the 'progresses' after the fact... nothing we say here will actually change the fortunes of these company. Mass consumers doesnt care re the hardware power, or even the exclusvities (my PS3 owning mate at work also thought Gears of War 2 would be coming to PS3 soon!).

Pricepoint and not always easy to grasp 'fickle' factors leads the comsumers one way or other! Advertising do greatly helps but the words of mouth is more difficult to influence.

I never regretted buying Gamecube, Dreamcast or Nintendo 64 even though they did not succeed as well as we hardcore gamers would have hoped, would have purchased Saturn but did not had the opportunity These consoles provided gamers with some great gems.
I think all the current consoles apparently would be actually doing better than these 'failures. However I believe Sony will suffer the most as they apparenty (based on the current trends) 'threw away' the level of dominance from PS2 and other two platforms made a good gains.

FenderMaster should have written this article :D

Fender, that quote is ironically from a paragraph suggesting online is driving 360 sales, which further demonstrates what a poorly considered article this is. read on from that quote and it's apparent the writer doesn't actually believe in that quote preferring instead to place weight on the counter-argument that online is very relevant. i'm with you i don't believe it is yet, but to suggest this article backs up our theory is off the mark. i don't mean to be pedantic but this guy's analysis is pretty bad.

retibra, what's your PSN ID?

oh and the posters on this site always find something to complain about with the PS3.

@ Rash

Yeah, I wasn't sure whether to quote the article or not, since like you said, Rob goes on to backtrack and contradict himself

At least we can all agree that at the moment, online services have yet to assert themselves as dominant driving forces for console sales, except among us hardcore gamers who demand online multiplayer, and downloadable games and demo's.

tbh, I'm a hardcore gamer, but with the exception of SSF2THDR i don't even play online, because games are played to such a high level its a little intimidating.

@ CunningLinguist

Thanks, simple fact is most generations i buy most of the machines.
I think true game fans often can't stand to miss out on the exclusives.
I bought the 360 because although the original xbox was late to the party and had too many shooters and not enough variety i actualy though in terms of user experience it was a great machine. Significantly better than the PS2 even though there were a few issue, too big no style etc.
The 360 at a launch price of under £300 was a superb machine, I have had most consoles, everything from PC engines to Vectrex etc and have never put anywhere near the hours onto a console like i have with the 360. It just managed to fix 90% of the issue the original one had and at a great price, which importantly has been reduced often enough to now entice the casual gamer out there.
MS have almost either through bunging them money or just building an exciting machine that is relatively easy to programme got loads of dev on board. I think really these are the two crucial thign you need to win sales, good machine at the right price with loads of games. Worked for Sony for about a decade.

Whilst i think people are right when they say online isnt that important to get the casual gamer I actually think the relationship is a lot more complicated than that. Why are casual gamer lapping up 360 now? Because there hardcore gamer friends have been going on about the 360 for years have been saying what a great machien it is. Mr/Mrs Casual gamer wouldn't even consider a machine at £300 but at £130 it seems ok and an if it doesnt get used much we can use it as a DVD player anyway. Now there friends, family , people they know who are into games were into it because of the online multiplayer, the downloadable content, the demos the whole 'Live' experience. This make them almost evangelical about what a great machine it is. So indirectly the online is important to casual gamers cos they might not know shit all about the machines and what they can do but like most people they take advice from people around them that do.

Fender, I hear you man, which is why i call myself dedicated rather than hardcore... ;o)

lefizz, i'm not convinced yet there has been significant improvements in sales to suggest the casuals are "lapping" up 360 online. lets see how sales for the console develop over the coming months. certainly the price cuts haven't improved sales as dramatically as the cuts suggest they would. making such cuts and still remaining on par with the previous year's sales figures suggests there isn't pent up demand for the console, as it is believed to be for PS3. casuals lapping up the 360 is a bit romantic.

From my prospective: What the PS3 needs is more games like MGS 4. Long interesting story-telling cut scenes, with great long game play. You could definitely tell why it needed 50GB. (despite what others might say). I wish every action game was like that.

I don't know if it's financially viable though. And MSG is a long successful franchise, that's why it has big budgets. Difficult to start great AAA projects from the start.

Rash Microsoft claim to have doubled sales over the christmas period in europe compared with last year.
That seems like a pretty decent improvement to me, i dont think the UK sales were anythign like that but still.

@evilfoxhound

Not so sure Sony are happy about their main console being seen that way but still.
And XBL might be full of chavs and yanks but it does work 99% of the time.
I remember trying GT4 prologue the day it came out online, and that fact a flagship product had been launched with with an online service or code like that was just jaw dropping. I think quake 2 online with a 56k modem 10 year earlier was a better experience.
Hopefully it has been patched up to a decent level but at launch it was just plain embarassing.

Truth be told MS could learn a lot from Sony about build quality and Sony could learn a hell of a lot from MS about networking infrastructure.

Online services will be more of a factor later on, at least that is what I'd guess. Seeing how online services have become so mainstream and important to us in the last 5 years it is just one of those things you can't fight against.

Also, in a war, the "weapon" that you can mass produce the cheapest and quickest will become the winner. Wii is nothing but a glorified Gamecube. And in the end, the market will have its fill with consoles - that is, it will have reached the point where everyone that wants one will already have one - be it a Wii, X360 or PS3. The question is though, what console will reach this critical mass first?

Of course, this critical mass might be very far off, seeing how many PS2 consoles are still being sold today.

An interesting read full undeniable facts, well written.

the sense of its reliability and build quality - arguments over its actual power are really not of interest to the majority of consumers

I've been saying this for a long time, due to my part in games retail.

1st hand experience > Internet Jargon

Sony should drop the price and release an official VGA cable for the PS3.

I bought an Xbox 360 and a LCD monitor in my last year of uni for less than a PS3 alone would have cost, not even mentioning a HD display.

380,000.00 KRW = 209.103 EUR (PS3)

50,000.00 KRW = 27.50972 EUR (New game)

This is what I pay for stuff here in Korea. I could see the PS3 performing much better if these were the prices in other parts of the world as well.

TheComedian, in response to your question regarding games worth owning as a dedicated gamer on Wii, heres a collection of games i picked up or have yet to pick up from last year: Mario Galaxy, No More Heroes, Lost Wind, Okami, Super Smash Bros., Boom Blox, World of Goo... and Sin and Punishment.

Now... Do i win anything???

"expensive necessary add ons" - what are these things people keep bringing up about the 360? I have had mine for 18months regular use and other than my XBL sub haven't HAD to buy anything extra at all.

"expensive necessary add ons" - what are these things people keep bringing up about the 360? I have had mine for 18months regular use and other than my XBL sub haven't HAD to buy anything extra at all.

I'm glad someone finally said this. I don't need wireless or play+charge but I do need a headset and a HD cable which the 360 gives freely. The PS3 does not.
Which are more necessary add-ons?

DjFlex52, well clearly for you the HD cable and headset, but don't generalise. and the issue is expensive proprietory add-ons. i can decide on the quality and price i pay for the add-ons i may need for PS3... unlike the countless early 360 adopters who will pay an arm and a leg converting to larger HDD.

lovely2cu

Why the FUCK do people still go on about backwards compatibility. Im not saying the PS2 is shit cos it isnt and I loved mine, but playing most of it now seems rather gash. Get into the modern generation for gods sake. Backwards compatibility should be the last thing on peoples minds with a new console.

PS2's are cheap enough, just buy one you cheap bastard and stop winging about back compatibility

TBH I think Sony could make a great comeback with a new PSP. The PS3 is a bit of a lost cause but the PSP is doing well and with a well designed and great PSP2 they could make an awesome return to form the next few years.

I see little discussion on the types of games having an influence on the popularity of the 360 vs PS3.

This generation has seen a much stronger showing from US/EU game developers (sports games aside), especially in the FPS genre.

MS seems to have tapped these more then Sony has, possibly the ease to port between the PC and 360 has helped get more of these developers interested in consoles.

I would have played RPGs the most in the previous generation of consoles, this time around it's FPS games, and the 360 does seem to win here especially online.

I almost bought a PS3 last weekend, but couldn't see any game that I would really want that I don't already have for the 360. I couldn't really justify paying that much money for a console that I didn't really have a reason to buy.

The article should have just said: "PS3's higher price point is hurting it, because they've sorted out everything else."

But it didn't, and now the comments-boosting fanboy wars will no doubt begin again, as planned.

But is it really that big a deal? Financially, Ninty didn't do so well with the GC last generation, it was a solid last-place (altho I only had a GC and loved it).

And look where they are right now with the Wii/DS. Sony might be the same next-gen, who knows!

Rash' wrote: "clearly for you the HD cable and headset, but don't generalise. and the issue is expensive proprietory add-ons. i can decide on the quality and price i pay for the add-ons i may need for PS3... unlike the countless early 360 adopters who will pay an arm and a leg converting to larger HDD"

Ok, once more for reason as you keep changing your arguement.... what expensive "essential" proprietry add-ons are you talking about?! I paid £170 for a 360 with 2 games, 60gig HDD, HDMI cable (not included with PS3) and a headset (not included with PS3).

There is literally nothing else I need to play games missing from that package. Like most people I know I use a wired internet connection.

Granted early adopters "only" got a 20gig drive but an upgrade is in no way "essential" for ANY gaming functionality.

Please enlighten me as I hate this "MS FORCE you to buy loads of hardware" myth especially when PS3 doesn't even come with HD leads or a headset - two "essential" items for online enabled HD gaming.

Please give me just 1 example of essential 360 hardware that i dont get out of the box with all units other than the core? Also acknowledge that by excluding HDMI leads and headsets Sony are as equally guilty.

It's hilarious how many defensive posts you have made in this comments thread, the true definition of SDF.

200k, relax and let me reiterate, what works for you doesn't necessarily work for every buyer. MS pushing proprietory hardware at extortionate prices on to unsuspecting customers is the crime being levelled against them. I'm happy what's in the package suits you, but if you wanted to upgrade in future, you would be at the mercy of MS's dubious add-on prices. Permit me to give you an example; in under two years i've virtually filled my original 60GB HDD with content. with my needs changing i can upgrade my 60GB to a 320GB HDD for less than what early 360 adopters would pay MS's proprietory 60GB HDD. With shrewd buying i could get a HDMI and Bluetooth headset for under the price of a play and charge kit. Do you see?

As someone who owns all three consoles I have to say it's a fair and insightful article.