UFC is "at war" with Electronic Arts

By Ellie Gibson Published 14 July, 2009

"EA told us, 'You're not a real sport.'"

The president of the Ultimate Fighting Championship has declared the organisation is "at war" with Electronic Arts - but says they started it.

"EA Sports told us, 'You're not a real sport. We wouldn't touch this thing. We want nothing to do with this,'" said Dana White, as reported by MMA Junkie.

"I'm not tap-dancing around this thing or whatever. I'm telling you straight-up, I'm at war with them right now. That's how I look at it."

The UFC produced a game with THQ instead, and it all turned out fine. UFC Undisputed 2009 scored a healthy 8/10 on Eurogamer and according to White, 2 million units of the game have been shipped since the game was released in May.

In June EA Sports announced it would be developing an MMA title, which appears to have ****** White off no ******* end.

"We put our asses on the line, THQ and the UFC, to make a videogame deal in the worst economy in the world," White said. "We go out there and do this thing, and it's successful, and now ******* EA Sports wants to do a video game. Really? That's not what you told us a year and a half ago.

"You told us you'd never be in business with us. They wouldn't even take a meeting because mixed martial arts disgusted them. This wasn't a real sport. Boy, they got over that real quick, didn't they?"

White has banned UFC fighters from appearing EA's game, though an exception has been made for Randy Couture following some legal wrangling. It's all for the best, according to White.

"You know what the difference is? I'm in the mixed martial arts business. EA isn't," he said.

"EA doesn't give a **** about mixed martial arts. They made that very clear."

Picture of Ellie.

About Ellie Gibson

Since joining Eurogamer in the mid 2000s, Ellie has written about subjects as diverse as the fall of Gizmondo, the rise of Hollyoaks actresses in Red Alert games and the noise a bear makes under NSFW circumstances.

Read more articles from Ellie by visiting the Ellie Gibson archive page.

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Comments (79) Latest comment 3 years ago

Comments threads automatically close after 30 days, but please feel free to continue chatting on the forum!

  • PlugMonkey #1 3 years ago

    Well, it's not a real sport though, is it?

    There. Declare war on me, Dana, you big girly nancy boy!

  • rhubarbandcustard #2 3 years ago

    I love UFC and boxing and any other combat 'sports' I can find.

    But calling them sports is using the term pretty loosely.

    All combat sports ultimately come down to smashing the other person's face in. That's not sport, that's just legalised violence.

    And I looooove it!!!

    It's better than f**king football anyway.

  • PlugMonkey #3 3 years ago

    Hey! Who gave me a negative rating?

    I DECLARE WAR ON YOU!! WE ARE OFFICIALLY AT WAR!!

    Feel the burn. Oh, yeah.

  • Markusdragon #4 3 years ago

    "We put our asses on the line, THQ and the UFC, to make a videogame deal in the worst economy in the world,"

    Zimbabwe?

  • kobashi #5 3 years ago

    Dana and his big mouth. When does this guy ever shut up!!

    Dana is at war with EA but had no problem letting EA use the TUF finals for sponsorship of Fight Night Round 4.
    Edited by 1 at 14/07/09 @ 08:57

  • PlugMonkey #6 3 years ago

    "Zimbabwe?"

    Indeed. I also question quite how much their 'asses' were 'on the line'. Unless his definition of 'ass on the line' is accepting a licensing fee from THQ while they took all the risk and completely covered the cost of development - which is how these things normally work.

    This man is clearly a tool.

  • XdarXideX #7 3 years ago

    Define "sport" then guys. What makes football a sport, but MMA not a sport? Is it a ball? Do you need a ball??

  • Tzetrik #8 3 years ago

    This guy hasnt had many dealings with publishers has he? 99% of game pitches get laughed out of the room. There's nothing wrong with EA waiting to see if there's a market for it.

  • XdarXideX #9 3 years ago

    @Kobashi-
    was that the sponsor on uk tv? Was it placed before the show or during? I can't remember seeing it in the US broadcasted episodes I downloaded.

  • Bongo #10 3 years ago

    He is an absolute idiot: http://www .youtube.com/watch?v=nbw0eTmn13c

  • gandhimaster #11 3 years ago

    dana is a ####### legend!

  • senso-ji #12 3 years ago

    Some how I don't think EA give a damn about Dana's ramblings - they own the licences for FIFA, NBA, NFL, NHL and MLB, and all those combined produce more money per minute than the UFC does per year. While I enjoy the UFC and think that MMA is a legitimate sport, Dana white needs to get down off his high perch and start treating business liasons with more respect, other wise his organization might not get as big as he wants it to.

  • TheJuriel #13 3 years ago

    It's really physical, so it's a sport. I mean, hell, shooting a gun is in the Olympics, and many sources refer to golf as a sport. Fighting is more a sport than many other.

  • kingmong #14 3 years ago

    @rhubarbandcustard:
    "I love UFC and boxing and any other combat 'sports' I can find. But calling them sports is using the term pretty loosely. All combat sports ultimately come down to smashing the other person's face in. That's not sport, that's just legalised violence."

    spoken like a true idiot

    sport (n) a game, competition or activity needing physical effort and skill that is played or done according to rules, for enjoyment and/or as a job.

    how do combat sports not qualify? participants train hard to learn techniques & tactics so they can compete in controlled environments according to predefined rules. It's not like they just hop up from behind their megadrives one day, climb into the ring/cage and start windmill punching like primary school children!

  • Nephirion #15 3 years ago

    And EA dont make proper games, what's the difference

  • matrim83 #16 3 years ago

    This guy hasnt had many dealings with publishers has he? 99% of game pitches get laughed out of the room. There's nothing wrong with EA waiting to see if there's a market for it.

    Pretty much. Now that they (EA) see the market, they want a piece. Thats business. And he needs to learn to handle competition without sounding like a whiny little bitch.

  • kangarootoo #17 3 years ago

    Well first off, who gives a shit if its a sport or not. Its not like he called your mum a lady of the night.

    Second, how exactly will this war be conducted? Will it be a war of words (in which case, I am guessing EA will win, CAPS-LOCK usage not withstanding)? If its literally a punching match (or a stranglehold match, as I believe those are very popular in UFC) I suspect angry man might come out on top (ahaha, ahem).

    Thirdly, maybe if your sport wasn't called "Ultimate Fighting", people might take it more seriously. In the eyes of most of the world, its like WWF with real punching.

  • kangarootoo #18 3 years ago

    And of course, this bluster is all marketing PR to hype the game. Everyone knows that right?

  • Freek #19 3 years ago

    Is this guy for real? He's actually in charge of something?

  • GreyScale #20 3 years ago

    I don't know anything about UFC or stuff like that but I don't think I'd want to do business with him either, he sounds like a bit of a dick tbh. I can just imagine him ranting in that interview like a WWE wrestler, grabbing the interviewers mic, pointing into the camera, and all that. I bet he concluded the interview with 'BRING IT ONNNNN' or 'LETS MIX IT UPPPPPPP' or something like that.

  • Deckard1 #21 3 years ago

    Looks like the roid rage is kicking in

  • rhubarbandcustard #22 3 years ago

    kingmong: I like combat sports but if you think boxers and mma fighters aren't psychopaths you need to extract your head from between their rosy cheeks.

    Most of these people would hurt you for no reason at all.

    Just like any other thug out there.

    I'm going to go out on a limb here and guess you read celebrity gangster memoirs and think deep down their alright geezers too.

    Ass.

  • optimusprym8 #23 3 years ago

    Well for starters not too many sports people are that clever up top, hence why they are paid to kick, thwack, stroke balls etc rather than find cures for cancer but that's not a bad thing. However people play particular sports because they like doing it ergo, UFC "sportsmen" just do it because they are violent thugs who enjoy mashing other people's faces in.

  • CHAZBIGPOTATO #24 3 years ago

    Woah Roid rage alert!

    Watch out EA, MMAs can kill a man with their bare hands, and I bet they don't teach you how to do that at the squash courts...you in trouble.

    Seriously, what a twat though.

  • XdarXideX #25 3 years ago

    Wow, lots of ignorance going on in here again.

    Kangarootoo UFC is not a sport, it's a franchise or federation if you will. The sport it involves is called Mixed Martial Arts.

    OptimusTard please go do some research before commenting on something you clearly know little about. There are loads of intelligent fighters in MMA and the UFC. It doesn't pay to be a slugger in this business unless you're Brock Lesnar. Also, while the sport may be high on violence, it doesn't mean the fighters are vicious people. They actually exercise restraint in regards to submission by choke or hyperextension of a limb. There have been no deaths or serious lasting injuries in the UFC.

  • kingmong #26 3 years ago

    rhubarbandcustard: congratulations - you're twice the retard i thought you were, and that is impressive... any time someone uses phrases like "most of these people would hurt you for no reason at all" it's pretty clear you're dealing with someone who has a no real clue about the social group they're describing.

    I watch combat sports because I enjoy watching skillful athletes compete. you seem to watch it because you like watching people you have no respect for smash each other up. one of these is an unhealthy & violent outlook.

    I would advise taking a couple of mma/muay thai/boxing classes. you'd quickly see clubs are populated by pretty much the same cross-section of people you get in work/college/everywhere else. mostly normal nice people with the occasional unreasonable tool thrown in - pretty much like this thread i suppose. you could even get a chance to lose that chip on your shoulder.
    Edited by 1 at 14/07/09 @ 11:06

  • kangarootoo #27 3 years ago

    @XdarXideX

    I never claimed to be knowledgeable on the subject. Indeed, I thought I was pretty clear when I said "who gives a shit if its a sport or not."

    And your definition of "great restraint" seems to extend to the fighters basically not killing each other. Some might suggest that was the bare minimum of restraint required.

    I think two extreme views are forming here, and we should be wary of that.

    You obviously feel that the majority of UFC particpants are balanced and restrained individual. rhubarbandcustard on the other hand feels that all combat "sports" participants are psychotic.

    Now I might not agree with him in the extreme, but it hard to argue against the suggestion that people who are violent for a living enjoy being violent. And that invites the question, are people that enjoy being violent "normal in the head".

    I've sparred in kungfu in the past, and I enjoyed it. But were very padded up and there was no question that causing harm to the opponent was simply not part of the deal. It was the skill of landing blows, not the damage caused by those blows. I would have been mortified if I had actually hurt someone. UFC on the other hand (among other combat "sports";) is entirely based artound the actual causing of physical harm (or pain). THAT I think is what some find "unusual and disturbing".

    Why would a fighter choose a sport that directly involves physical harm, when other semi-contact combat sports exist? Because they enjoy it?...

  • kangarootoo #28 3 years ago

    @kingmong

    Same question to you.

    I can see the reasoning behind a combat sport that involves all of the skill you describe, but with the existence of semi-contact sparring that tests those same skills, why choose a full contact variant that fundementally requires the causing of physical harm?

  • Xeopuppy #29 3 years ago

    "EA doesn't give a **** about mixed martial arts"

    Well nether do I, what a crock of shit.

  • JahB #30 3 years ago

    I like combat sports but if you think boxers and mma fighters aren't psychopaths you need to extract your head from between their rosy cheeks.

    you win the idiot of the week award. you can't seriously believe that all people that compete in combat sports are violent psychopaths?

  • rhubarbandcustard #31 3 years ago

    jahB: why are people so apologetic for fighters?

    Fighting IS thrilling entertainment.

    But, if you willingly and repeatedly punch, kick, knee and elbow someone in the face until they're unconscious and unable to defend themselves then is it really so surprising that some of your audience, namely me, despite being entertained would regard you as a complete psycho.

  • kobashi #32 3 years ago

    @ XdarXideX. EA advertised Fight Night Round 4 on the UFC mat during TUF 9 Finale.

    I am sure they advertised on Spike TV during the show also.

  • kingmong #33 3 years ago

    kangarootoo: interesting questions and btw I agree about the polarised views. my point was that combat athletes aren't any more balanced or crazy than the rest of the population. on your question about semi-contact, the skill set required is remarkably different really. semi-contact is all speed & reaction time, full contact adds factors like strength, power and toughness into the equation.

    why do people do it? many different reasons if you ask me. what is true in my experience is that they don't do it because they're crazy and they want to hurt people... watched an interesting documentary about muay thai recently, this trainer was asked why western people take up the sport "why they start? maybe they've got something they want to prove to themselves, maybe they want to see if they can stand up and face another person in the ring. but if they find out they're good at it - then they start to enjoy themselves. they start to enjoy the sport". that's my theory - people like doing things they're good at!!

    that doesn't explain why i get into arguments on the internet unfortunately though...

  • XdarXideX #34 3 years ago

    @kangarootoo

    I understand that point of view but it's wrong in most cases. In MMA, the fighters are doing it for a living. It's not street fighting. It's a controlled environment with rules and regulations much like any other sport. These guys don't go in there to nearly kill each other (with the exception of a few fighters such as Thiago Alves) they go in there to be better than the other guy at what they do and move up the rankings. It's all about self, not hating on the other guy. In fact there are lots of MMA fighters who will happily just score points and let the judges decide who wins after 15mins/25mins. MMA fighters respect each others skills and do not want to cause any kind of injury that can affect their opponents' careers. That's the restraint I'm talking about.

    @Kobashi
    Oh really? I completely missed that despite watching all the episodes! Dana can be a bit of a tool, Still, as much as people hate him, he's done wonders for the UFC and MMA in general.
    Edited by 1 at 14/07/09 @ 11:49

  • kangarootoo #35 3 years ago

    Why is no one answering the question?

    Why would a fighter specifically choose to particpate in a full contact combat sport where the causing of physical harm is intrinsic, when semi-contact variants that test their skill as a fighter also exist?

    Come on JahB, as you've joined the discussion. Calling each other idiot of the week is all very well and good, but this is starting to remind me of British politics, where everyone critisises each other's point of view, instead of clearly explaining their own.

    Edit: Ah, someone answered as I was typing. Am reading now. :)
    Edited by 1 at 14/07/09 @ 11:50

  • kangarootoo #36 3 years ago

    @XdarXideX

    I guess people are drawn to doing to a job they like, but as you point out there are various aspects to like or dislike about contact sports.

    And I suppose also that people are drawn towards doing a job they are good at, even if there are aspects of that job they don't necessarily identify with. If I turned out to be very good at contact sports and could do very well in that field, would I pursue it?... hard to say

  • kangarootoo #37 3 years ago

    And I will say that I agree that suggestions that all boxers are thugs is a poor diversion. An ad hominem that harms the discussion.

  • kangarootoo #38 3 years ago

    P.s. this UFC guy is not helping himself or his business in that regard. All any good ad hominem needs is a loud mouth tit to validate its stereotypes :)

  • XdarXideX #39 3 years ago

    @kangarootoo

    Why do Rugby players not wear padding when they play a dangerous contact sport? These guys wear boots with spikes on the soles.

    You're likening MMA to a Martial Art about striking and points scoring alone. Think about what all the padding would do for the grappling game. Add some head gear in there and you'll never be able to escape any kind of hold involving your head or neck. Torso padding would stop any kind of ground grappling to some degree. As the rules go in MMA, the fight isn't over until someone can't continue or the time is up (or in some cases if the medic says it's over). These guys are tough and if you watch a few fights you'll see that often when someone is knocked down they get right back up again if left alone. That's an opportunity wasted for the guy who knocked him down. That's potentially a win gone right out of the window. Many a time has a fighter been knocked down only to come back and win the fight after recovering.

    Causing pain is part of any combat sport, including competition Kung Fu. But that's not what they're there to do. They're there to win, to be better than the opponent. Not to put the boot in out of spite.

  • oktava #40 3 years ago

    "why choose a full contact variant that fundementally requires the causing of physical harm?"

    Because that is what people want to see. So thats where the money is.

  • XdarXideX #41 3 years ago

    @knagarootoo

    Exactly. If you looked at some interviews or information about people such as Georges Saint-Pierre and Lyoto Machida you'll see why they do it. They just want to be the best at what they do. Look at Forrest Griffin who actually likes getting beaten up but respects EVERYBODY and only fights basically to cleanse his soul... sure some people are weird but none of these guys actually do it because they're sadistic. They'd be in the wrong job as this one has rules. It's actually a pretty selfish sport.
    Edited by 1 at 14/07/09 @ 12:10

  • kobashi #42 3 years ago

    @XdarXideX Dana White has done some good things yes but he claims to have done other things that were never done before which is pure BS. Some of the stuff he claims to have done were already done in the UFC under the old ownership.

    I am not sure if he has done wonders for MMA in general though. He has succesfully made UFC more popular yes but MMA in general is very debatable. Look how may other MMA organisations have failed and the few that have survived do very small PPV numbers. Dana has made sure MMA in America and Europe is only UFC.

    I just wish we still had an organisation the size of Pride FC. Pride was always bigger and better than UFC and having another organisation of that size is only good for the fighters.
    Edited by 1 at 14/07/09 @ 12:16

  • kingmong #43 3 years ago

    I disagree with the comments about assuming fight sports are fundamentally about hurting others. Great quote from Joyce Carol Oates' “On Boxing.” “For, contrary to stereotyped notions, boxing is primarily about being, and not giving, hurt." The pain the fighter feels in training, the hassle with dieting, cutting weight, and then the pain when you're actually in the ring. That kinda makes sense to me - the training, fighting etc is about passing though the pain and overcoming it.

    Edit: lile XdarXideX said, a very personal, internal (& possibly selfish) thing
    Edited by 2 at 14/07/09 @ 12:21

  • kingmong #44 3 years ago

    plus, dana white & his mouth are his own and MMA's worst enemy. dude is a loudmouth idiot.

    ufc probably wouldn't be where it is without all that hype tho i suppose.
    Edited by 1 at 14/07/09 @ 12:19

  • XdarXideX #45 3 years ago

    @kobashi

    You know... I miss Pride FC from yesterday! I know Dana has kept UFC at the front of MMA but the interest in MMA in general has grown considerably.

  • sneetch #46 3 years ago

    The president of the Ultimate Fighting Championship has decided to grab some free advertising by declaring the organisation is "at war" with Electronic Arts - but says they started it.

    USE THE CHAIR!!!

  • kangarootoo #47 3 years ago

    @XdarXideX

    "Why do Rugby players not wear padding when they play a dangerous contact sport? These guys wear boots with spikes on the soles."

    Oh come on. Perhaps the rules forbid padding of the players? Maybe in a game where you have to tackle other people, loose padding could actually increasde the risk of injury? And the spikes on the boots are to provide traction and they are absolutely necessary. Get serious.


    "You're likening MMA to a Martial Art about striking and points scoring alone. Think about what all the padding would do for the grappling game. Add some head gear in there and you'll never be able to escape any kind of hold involving your head or neck. Torso padding would stop any kind of ground grappling to some degree. As the rules go in MMA, the fight isn't over until someone can't continue or the time is up (or in some cases if the medic says it's over). These guys are tough and if you watch a few fights you'll see that often when someone is knocked down they get right back up again if left alone. That's an opportunity wasted for the guy who knocked him down. That's potentially a win gone right out of the window. Many a time has a fighter been knocked down only to come back and win the fight after recovering. "

    At what point did I suggest that UFC fighters should be padded? Most of the paragraph above has nothing to do with the discussion, least no part that I've been involved with. No doubt that within the rules of UFC, padding would do more harm than good. That was never my point.


    "Because that is what people want to see. So thats where the money is."

    Well that seems like a fair answer. I wasn't asking the question as a challenge. And I referred to the same above when I wondered whether I would follow such a career if by some mad twist of fate I turned out to be good at it.

    Like I said before, I don't actually agree that all boxers etc are mentalists (some of them clearly are). Some other posters said that, but not me. I'm just raising the questions :)

  • sneetch #48 3 years ago

    @kangarootoo
    "Why do Rugby players not wear padding when they play a dangerous contact sport? These guys wear boots with spikes on the soles."

    Oh come on. Perhaps the rules forbid padding of the players? Maybe in a game where you have to tackle other people, loose padding could actually increasde the risk of injury? And the spikes on the boots are to provide traction and they are absolutely necessary. Get serious.

    On a point of order: they do wear armour. Light armour intended to protect the more fragile bones and organs and so on but still armour.

    Basically they're not idiots.

    [link url=http://www.barringtonsports.com/brows e/rugby/rugby_protection/show/360/list
    ]http://ww w.barringtonsports.com/browse/r...[/link]

    Anyway, back to the article: throw him through a table!

  • prettyboytim #49 3 years ago

    Pram - - - -> Toys

  • XdarXideX #50 3 years ago

    @kangarootoo

    American football players wear padding... what's the difference for Rugby players?? It's still a game where you can be tackled to the ground in a violent manner.

    YOU made the point about padding in Kung Fu and brought it up as part of this conversation as a comparison. Of course my paragraph has something to do with this discussion. I'm telling you why there isn't padding and more about the win conditions of MMA. I'm trying to distract you from the idea that MMA is simply about hurting the other guy. But you seem to want to remain ignorant of it all.

    Should I use caps? MMA ISN'T ABOUT WANTING TO HURT ONE ANOTHER FOR PLEASURE. Come on... at least accept the possibility that you're wrong about a sport you admittedly don't know alot about. These people are sane and not sadistic.

  • LowEnergyCycle #51 3 years ago

    "I'm at war with them right now. That's how I look at it."

    How is anybody supposed to take the UFC as a serious sporting organisation when the president is spouting playground crap like this? I hardly think WAR is neccessary under the circumstances. You got your bloody game pubished in the end didn't you?

    Prick.
    Edited by 1 at 14/07/09 @ 13:14

  • gott_sei_dank #52 3 years ago

    Wow this is the first time I've seriously considered using the ignore poster option. Dana White is what he is, whether this is a good thing or not is matter of perspective, the UFC is MMA to all intents and purposes (at least in the west) and no MMA game will succeed without its licence, even if the EA game is better in every department only a truly hardcore base like those that want EAs US college sports variants released will buy it.

    If you perceive violence in MMA or any other combat sport then I think that says more about yourself than the many graduates (courtesy of wrestling programs in US schools), high school maths teacher (Rich Franklin) or pharmacologist Mustapha Al-Turk who choose to participate in MMA for many reasons. Then you also have many members of various security services of varying degrees anti-terror, anti-gang and ordinary police, all branches of the military.

    Without a doubt your also have those who use the only tool they have and the motivation to escape from poverty but equally there are those that do it in the budo spirit.

    @ kangarootoo, have you ever watched taekwondo at the Olympics if you excuse the pun it seems a pointless exercise when you rely on subjective judging to award points. There isn't a way to score the individual components of MMA as a whole, imho scoring of matches that go the decision is a problem in MMA.

  • Anthony_UK #53 3 years ago

    I can understand Dana's reaction this if I'm honest. He does come accross as very hands on, and baring in mind when he took over the UFC it was close to going bump, he is obviously built alot of pride for what he has helped to create.

    For EA to not only turn down UFC's offer, but label it has being 'disgusting' 'not a sport' and in general not something they'd ever be interested only for them to do a total about turn once they'd seen UFC 2009's sales figures, dispite making obvious sense, still comes across pretty shameless and two faced.

  • kangarootoo #54 3 years ago

    "On a point of order: they do wear armour. Light armour intended to protect the more fragile bones and organs and so on but still armour."

    Well, even better then. I rest my case (I think).

  • kangarootoo #55 3 years ago

    @XdarXideX

    "MMA ISN'T ABOUT WANTING TO HURT ONE ANOTHER FOR PLEASURE"

    I didn't suggest it was. I simply asked why someone would choose one over the other. I suspect there are many many reasons. As many at least as why participants of semi-contact sports choose them over full contact.

    The debate is more complex than you are making it. What attracts a participant to one type of combat sport over another? There will be all sorts of reasons, that differ from individual to individual. Some people quite simply enjoy it because they like being violent, they may not the the majority or even a significant minority but to deny their existence makes you look blinkered. Furthermore, the rules of the sport may not focus on causing pain for its own sake, but that does not mean individuals can't make that their own personal aim within the rules. Its not in the rules of golf that you must enjoy the styroll, but that doesn't mean it can't be the motivation of many golfers (silly example I know, but in there to make a fun point).

    Ok,lets put some stability into the discussion.

    I agree that most of the participants don't necessarily enjoy hurting people on the whole. You see that, I agree with you.

    However, to be successful in the sport you have to at the very least be able to tolerate the need to cause physical harm to others, and there are plenty of people that COULDN'T pursue this sport because they quite simply find the idea of punching someone in the head a wholly unenjoyable activity.

    That is the bit you seem to be missing or avoiding or not "getting". Having a job that requires you to find punching other people in the head at least ACCEPTABLE is to possess a mental state that some people find "usual".

    Now some commentors have taken things to an extreme, and unwisely stated that everyone involved in this is an evil thug who actively enjoys causing harm above all else. Clearly that is bollox.

    But it might be fair to say it "takes a certain kind of person" to make their living from breaking the skin of other people on a regular basis. At the extreme you have a nutter who enjoys the harm caused, but the very furthest you can get from that and still be involved in the sport is someone who is "sort of kind of ok" with the harm caused. I can understand how that might seem to some people.
    Edited by 1 at 14/07/09 @ 14:01

  • kingmong #56 3 years ago

    @kangarootoo: again, i think you're missing the point. ask anyone involve and i'd say you'd be hard pressed to find someone who does it coz they love causing pain. the point is facing your fears and hopping in the ring.

    re: the semi-contact vs full contact thing. for me the reason full contact is such a buzz is that anything could happen. you have no knowledge and can't really predict the outcome or what will happen in the ring. facing up to something like that and still doing it no matter how scared you are is a serious achievement.

    your points talk about people who make their careers out of it, but what about the huge amount of people who do these sports recreationally at an amateur or even professional level? people do these things for the same reason they climb mountains or jump out of planes - because facing up to a challenge gives you a sense of achievement!
    Edited by 1 at 14/07/09 @ 14:12

  • login_name #57 3 years ago

    people do these things for the same reason they climb mountains or jump out of planes - because facing up to a challenge gives you a sense of achievement!

    Maybe, but you don't have to inflict pain on another human to climb a mountain or jump out of a plane. Regardless of the overall reason people do it, you still need to be comfortable with hurting someone else. That takes a certain mind set. As you just said, there are other ways to challenge yourself. You don't need to choke another person to get a sense of achievement.

  • XdarXideX #58 3 years ago

    Very very rarely do the "nutjobs" succeed to the point of being awarded a professional fighting contract. Many of the participants in MMA do it because they feel it's how they can better themselves. As for "being ok" with harming others in the process, well it's not the same act of causing injury or killing someone and it's not done out of hate or disregard. It's temporary pain and something your opponent is willing to put themself through for competition. Sure a KO can look horrible, but it's without injury and the unfortunate participant to get KO usually doesn't remember it.

    O_O That sounds bad...

  • sneetch #59 3 years ago

    @XdarXideX
    Sure a KO can look horrible, but it's without injury and the unfortunate participant to get KO usually doesn't remember it.

    How can a KO occur without injury? Indeed it's caused by injury to the gosh-darned brain?

    Perhaps it might not be serious or lasting injury (or might be, punch-drunk anyone?) but a knock out is most definitely an injury.
    Edited by 1 at 14/07/09 @ 14:45

  • oktava #60 3 years ago

    It is a little naive to believe that its all about the budo spirit only and that violence, power, money and machismo don't play a big role too.

    Firefighters choose their career because they are fascinated by fire. Not because they want to save kittens.

  • gott_sei_dank #61 3 years ago

    @ sneetch
    How can a KO occur without injury? Indeed it's caused by injury to the gosh-darned brain?

    There are certain parts of nervous system which when subjected to enough stimulus send an automatic distress signal to the primitive part of the brain which shuts down the brain to prevent serious harm.

    If you point was about boxing then it would be valid but MMA isn't about multiple blows to the head.

    At this point I'll the leave the rest of the pro MMA faction to deal with the hippies who aren't going to get it no matter what :p

  • Azazel #62 3 years ago

    lol, of course this reminds me only of that hilarious Darkfall video wherein much War was declared.

  • sneetch #63 3 years ago

    @gott_sei_dank
    At this point I'll the leave the rest of the pro MMA faction to deal with the hippies who aren't going to get it no matter what :p

    Oh gee, thanks for trying though. Seriously, let's give gott sei dank a round of applause for putting up with the "hippies".

    /golfclap

  • kangarootoo #64 3 years ago

    @CountFapula

    Well equally, you could add something a little more constructive than just saying "you don't know what you are talking about".



    "There are certain parts of nervous system which when subjected to enough stimulus send an automatic distress signal to the primitive part of the brain which shuts down the brain to prevent serious harm."

    "Stimulus" sounds like a euphemism for damage to me. What we need here is someone with medical knowledge who can describe what happens when unconsciousness results from impact.

    Failing that, I found some info elsewhere on the web. It would seem that "stimulus" means blood vessels in the brain stretching, which causes them to swell and contract.

    [link url=http://www.sherdog.net/forums/f11/wha t-happens-when-you-knocked-out-341613/
    ]http://ww w.sherdog.net/forums/f11/what-h...[/link]



    "At this point I'll the leave the rest of the pro MMA faction to deal with the hippies who aren't going to get it no matter what :p "

    /sigh. So now it has become about manliness has it? People that question MMA are hippies now? Always be wary of something that runs from scrutiny, I say. There is nothing wrong with questioning something and if the response to a question is mockery or attack, be suspicious of why the answer is not readily available.

  • kingmong #65 3 years ago

    @kangarootoo : not sure about the relevance. I don't think anyone is debating that getting knocked out is probably worse for you than not being knocked out! but so what, people get knocked out in all sorts of sports all the time.

    overall i don't think injuries are more prevalent in combat sports than in non-combat sports. i possibly think boxing is the worst though. in mma/thai there are a lot of ways to win a fight. in boxing your head is going to get it non stop for the duration of the bout (up to 15 rounds!). that kind of consistent head trauma over long term is what really does the damage if you ask me.
    Edited by 1 at 14/07/09 @ 15:48

  • sneetch #66 3 years ago

    @kangarootoo

    Merriam Webster defines injury as

    "hurt, damage, or loss sustained"

    I'd consider loss of conciousness - particularly if it's caused by overloading the nervous system to the point where it shuts down the brain - to be "damage or hurt": it interferes with or inhibits the desired function of the body.

  • LowEnergyCycle #67 3 years ago

    @gott_sei_dank
    "Dana White is what he is, whether this is a good thing or not is matter of perspective"

    Fair enough. If you share the perspective of bull-headed morons who'd rather use their fists to solve anything, then I'm sure you'll agree with Dana White.

    However, if you're rational and level-headed, maybe you'll find his outbursts a Bit Fucking Silly.

  • RexRunti #68 3 years ago

    @kanga

    Why do people join the army when they can play Call of Duty? Why do some british police officers join SO19 (the armed division)? Is it just because they want to kill people or is their some other motivation involved?

    It's the same with UFC (of which I'm not actually a fan). People like to know how good they are at things in comparison to everyone else. This is why games have scores and multiplayer modes. Now you said you did a bit of sparring with Kung Fu, suppose you got really good at it how would you know if you were better than another practioner? The only way is to fight them, now obviously this should be done in as safe and fair a way as possible but without compramising the freedom of the practioners (which restrictions on moves or too much padding would do). Add some Ju Jitsu and other martial arts and you've suddenly got UFC.

  • gott_sei_dank #69 3 years ago

    kangarootoo you might have wanted to carry on reading that thread from Sherdog before quoting a post that only supports you view.

    It has nothing to do manliness or machismo, Gina Carano and Dr Rosie Sexton are both female and compete too.

    If you can't ever imagine yourself hitting someone in the face that is great 'cause I can't either. I'm 29 and a half and never been in a fight and go out of my way to let wasps and flies out of the window and insist on picking up spiders that otherwise would be destined for the vacuum cleaner. Doesn't mean I can't respect and appreciate what MMA fighters are about.
    Edited by 1 at 14/07/09 @ 16:04

  • miiiguel #70 3 years ago

    @ Rex:
    "Why do people join the army when they can play Call of Duty? Why do some british police officers join SO19 (the armed division)? Is it just because they want to kill people or is their some other motivation involved?
    It's the same with UFC (of which I'm not actually a fan). People like to know how good they are at things in comparison to everyone else."

    What a poor, imo, argument. Man..., I try to believe that policemen, soldiers, and general law and order forces do their job for (well, not only, but also) altruistic reasons, and they believe in maintaning the order, and protect the community. Nothing to do with will to kill people nor a personal agenda.
    I can be totally wrong, though I'd be pretty disappointed.

  • kangarootoo #71 3 years ago

    @RexRunti

    "Now you said you did a bit of sparring with Kung Fu, suppose you got really good at it how would you know if you were better than another practioner? The only way is to fight them, now obviously this should be done in as safe and fair a way as possible but without compramising the freedom of the practioners (which restrictions on moves or too much padding would do)."

    But the question in my mind would perhaps be "do I want to know how good I am SO badly that I will actually fight someone in order to find out". As it happens I did, but it wasn't full contact. I've never done full contact sparring and I never will, because I don't like the idea of actually hurting someone if its not necessary (maybe that makes me a hippie).


    Anyway, this discussion has side railed slightly. I seem to have turned into the person that said all participants in full contact sports are raging nutters, when in fact i said nothing of the sort. If anything, I was simply playing devil's advocate and pressing fans of the sport to explain the thinking behind it.

    The whole thing has this feeling about it, where people won't give a straight answer to a question because they worry their honest answer would make them look weird. Some people like full contact sports because physical aggression releases chemicals in their body that their body is designed to react favourably to. Its that simple sometimes. Some people genuinely enjoy a fight outside a pub on a friday night.

    Its not an insult to say that the guys that are good at UFC are disposed towards being violent. Its just an observation. Maybe some would judge them, but I'm not. Better in a ring than in a pub.

    The other side of the coin is to suggest that those who can't stomach inflicting physical violence on others would be rubbish at UFC. Is that not just common sense?

  • AphoticCosmos #72 3 years ago

    Why is this man in charge of anything?

  • kangarootoo #73 3 years ago

    I think he knocked out the guy who used to be in charge.


    JOKE

  • kangarootoo #74 3 years ago

    @CountFapula

    "Kanga, honestly...it's like others have said: if you don't ''get'' MMA, nothing is really going to change your mind. "

    Sorry man, and you know its not personal, but that is pathetic. Its just a way of saying "I can't explain it to you". And honestly my response is "try harder, or at least say you aren't able or can't be arsed".

    Seriously, my mind is frequently changed about all sorts of subjects, but every time the thing that will change it is reason, and well voiced opinion and fact.


    Everything in the rest of your post is stuff I understand, and I do "get it" in that sense. Like I said before, I'm playing devil's advocate most of time, and I'm also trying to coax out some honest opinion from people. I really do get the personal challenge and sense of competition, and I also do get that certain aspects of that personal challenge can only be tested by a full contact version of combat. Its not for me, its not for a lot of others, but I do get it.

    And if you CAN explain it in those terms, as you clearly can, there is really no need to say if you don't get it you never will". It does you a It would show a lot more self awareness to just say "I don't mind the physical violence, because I realise it is controlled and a necessary part of the sport".

    SOME of the fans of UFC like the blood and all that goes with it, the same can be said of boxing. Maybe those fans wouldn't get in the sport themselves, and maybe some of them are on the sherdog forum you mentioned. I don't tar everyone with the same brush.

    Honestly, the more people dodge the questions, the more I get like a dog with a stick. But I'll give it a rest now :)

  • hiddenranbir #75 3 years ago

    Of course EA weren't going to risk investing in something small time. They want as much profit as they can, as any company would want.

  • AOFanboi #76 3 years ago

    Randy Couture, he's haute.

  • SamsungHDTV #77 3 years ago

    If MMA fighters engaged in their sport in the streets, would they be arrested? Would they go to jail or be fined or convicted of a crime? I suppose the same can be said for boxers and the like.

  • kangarootoo #78 3 years ago

    "Yes because it's unsanctioned. It's not a pussy sport like football or something"

    And you were doing so well :)

    Good points well made, and for the record I'm not a football fan (and football rioters can sink in a river for all I care, though I realise most footy fans are good people).


    Question, as the legality of things has raised it head. I assume that if someone dies in the ring, the opponent can't be tried for murder or anything like that? Or does it depend on the actions taken at the time? If I was in a ring (or pentagram, or whatever) and smacked someone in the head as hard as I could with the intention of killing them, and I succeeded... how would anyone know? Could I be tried?

    I should point out, this is an entirely seperate discussion. I am in no way trying to sneakily suggest that UFC is a form for covert muder. I just had a similar discussion about boxing with someone recently.

  • XdarXideX #79 3 years ago

    @kangarootoo (bare in mind, I haven't had time to read your last couple of posts)

    In as quick a way as possible to explain this (before work!), maybe it's not unusual then for people to enjoy violence. I say unusual because you used it (i think) to describe the idea of being comfortable hurting someone else physically. Maybe you are in the minority for having the kind of mindset for being extremely unhappy with it even if the harm caused is only very temporary.

    Obviously, like i've said, these guys don't go in there to wreck their opponents' lives or careers so they use some restraint, but they're also there to win so when a guy is knocked over they will continue to fight them until they can't (or won't) defend themselves and the referree calls it off. Some guys are even so determined not to lose that they won't tap out of a choke hold, instead choosing to pass out. The last time I saw this happen the guy choking him was asking for the ref to call it because he knew hs opponent was out.

    I don't know... I guess when I first saw MMA I was a bit miffed by the level of violence but now I watch it all the time and I see the respect and regulations involved... I know these guys don't want to actually hurt each other, they just want to win.