Turbine: Console is superior MMO platform

By Richard Leadbetter Published 21 September, 2009

Targets PS3 as lead.

Lord of the Rings Online maker Turbine has revealed the thinking behind its forthcoming console MMO, saying that PS3 and Xbox 360 offer a "superior MMO platform" with an untapped market worth an estimated $2.3 billion.

In his presentation at GDC Austin, VP of product development Craig Alexander revealed that Turbine has targeted PlayStation 3 as the lead platform for its console endeavours, saying that while the Xbox 360 is the more tempting and easy-to-work-with format, the PS3 presents a number of technical challenges that once overcome result in better code for all platforms.

The MMO maker hasn't really told us anything we don't already know in this respect - citing the slower access times on the Blu-ray drive as an issue, as well as the PS3's split memory pool and its tricky performance monitoring and debugging tools. In short, in common with many developers, Turbine said that migrating code from PS3 to Xbox 360 is far less challenging than doing things the other way around.

Perhaps more surprising is just how committed the company is to bringing its next MMO project to console. While many believe that the PC is the natural home to the genre, Turbine disagrees. Alexander mentioned that the same arguments were made about in-depth sports sims and the FPS genre, but now market leaders like Madden and Call of Duty all have far larger installed bases of players on the consoles.

Alexander said that the evolution of the PC games market is being mirrored on console, and it is only a matter of time before the MMO development scene shifts to PS3 and Xbox 360.

Lending weight to his argument, Alexander reeled off a number of RPG-related facts: namely that Mass Effect, Fable II and Fallout 3 have all sold in excess of three million units, and that, at launch, Oblivion sold to over 50 per cent of the Xbox 360 installed base. In Turbine's view, the appetite for adventuring is there on console, and MMOs are the last piece of the puzzle.

While the notion of "pay to play" subscriptions may introduce unwelcome friction for the gamer, Alexander offered that the platform holders have systems in place to make this element as easy to work with as possible, and said that over 50 per cent of Xbox 360 owners pay an annual $50 subscription - so the precedent and the payment mechanisms are already in place.

The LOTRO maker also revealed some of the philosophy behind its new forthcoming console game, suggesting that PC ports to console don't work, and need to built from the ground up for the platform. This in itself presents a number of challenges. First of all, the tech behind the game requires a 10-year lifespan - it needs to be ultra-scalable to accommodate the creation of additional content. Alexander put a $20 million price-tag on the development of the core tech, before even a penny has been spent on the actual game itself.

Furthering his "ports don't work" philosophy, he also said that "grinding" is a no-no for console gamers, again suggesting that the future of MMOs is very, very different to the present. In explaining his "superior MMO platform" comment, Alexander mentioned that consoles are designed to be more accessible and playable, that they're more social, that the gaming budgets are higher and that the competition is stiffer.

But for MMO game-makers like Turbine, he said, the potential prize simply can't be ignored. The company's revenue estimates for 2011 suggest that the PC MMO market will be worth $2 billion, but it will be an ultra-competitive, risky environment. Console on the other hand will still be fresh, with far fewer competing games on the market and an estimated $2.3 billion of revenue up for grabs.

So, what can we expect from Turbine's first console MMO if it's not a port of one of their existing offerings? Alexander suggested an interesting formula for success: take your favourite console game, add your best MMO features, sprinkle with innovation, invest tons of money, beta-test with thousands and "stay as flexible, agile and nimble as possible, for as long as possible".

Picture of Richard.

About Richard Leadbetter

Rich has been a games journalist since the days of 16-bit and specialises in technical analysis. Commonly known around Eurogamer as the Blacksmith of the Future.

Read more articles from Richard by visiting the Richard Leadbetter archive page.

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Comments (32) Latest comment 2 years ago

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  • vegard #1 2 years ago

    i would never pay a sub on top of my live sub, but then again i'm not much of an mmo guy...

  • Dizzy #2 2 years ago

    "Console is superior MMO platform"

    Err????

    My PC is a custom build MMO machine! On a PC you can at least push up the graphics detail to ridiculous levels when playing in small group and toning it down when in a massive 150 people WAR fight. You can have ventrillo servers for big guild raids. You can do a ridiculous amount of typing in chat. I can see myself playing MMOs on my 360, but I can't honestly see that experience being better than on my PC. Sorry Turbine... you might be very wrong there.

    Yes console games sell well... but WoW seems to do ok on the PC/Mac.

    BTW they are probably going for The Hobbit, a LOTRO light for consoles. Pity IMHO.... there are much better ways of crossing the divide between PC MMO and consoles MMO with crossover games in the same world but different locations and the same user characters/accounts IMHO.
    Edited by 3 at 21/09/09 @ 14:21

  • HermitArcader #3 2 years ago

    Post deleted at 09:17:39 22-12-2011

  • Inspirius #4 2 years ago

    Suggesting that console MMOs will be worth $2.3B in a couple of years seems highly optimistic. To pull in that kind of cash you would need all of the games to add up to something on the scale of WoW. There had better be several games all ready to launch fairly soon if that prediction is going to come true.

  • BiscuitBase #5 2 years ago

    I might actually play an MMO if they bring a good one out on console. My PC is for productivity only.

  • FooAtari #6 2 years ago

    Alexander mentioned that the same arguments were made about in-depth sports sims and the FPS genre, but now market leaders like Madden and Call of Duty all have far larger installed bases of players on the consoles.

    Since when have sports sims not been on consoles. There have been sports games on consoles for ever. And games like Madden and FIFA have been around since 16-bit era.

    The FPS genre while definitely popular on consoles is more a matter of taste. I still prefer mouse and keybaord over a pad.

    Personally I still don't think complex MMO's will work on a console. I can't imagine playing WoW off a blu-ray. Would spend half the time waiting for data to load off the disc. A more smaller, more focused and streamlined MMO may work however.

  • mkreku #7 2 years ago

    But are PS3 owners willing to suddenly start paying to play a game online (as they are enjoying free online play now) and does Xbox 360 owners really want to start paying twice to play online? Doesn't sound like "superior MMO platforms" to me.

  • FooAtari #8 2 years ago

    The costs argument here are quite important IMO.

    On the Pc you pay your isp sub, and then your mmo sub. The situation would be exactly the same on PS3, although perhaps people will be more resistant to paying, however that's not really been a problem on the PC.

    However on the 360 you would pay your ISP, then Live then MMO on top. That's quite expensive for most people...

  • Inspirius #9 2 years ago

    It will be interesting to see if Microsoft allow more developers to bypass LIVE in the same way that FFXI does, so that you don't require a LIVE sub to play that particular game online.

  • Ryze #10 2 years ago

    The full-price game would have to come with a free year's subscription at least, or be dirt cheap / a free XBLA download that works regardless of silver / gold status.
    Edited by 1 at 21/09/09 @ 14:54

  • Spekingur #11 2 years ago

    Leading on PS3 because it's more difficult to code the right way, apparently. Danged those code-making decision done by Sony. Things would be more awesome if it wasn't for the "must be difficult to code for" attitude of theirs.

    Consoles could be the future of all gaming. But then again, iPhone gaming could be the future of all gaming as well, couldn't it? I seriously doubt that we would want that to happen.

  • Chazmeister #12 2 years ago

    A 13 month XBL sub can be bought for as little as £35, which works out at about £2.70 a month, the price of a pint of beer. So I don't see that being much of a barrier to the majority of people having to pay an MMO sub as well. It certainly isn't for me.

    The main barrier will be the cost of the MMO sub itself. The current PC model of subs being some where over £10 a month will probably be a bit too much for most console gamers to stomach, especially on top of the cost of the game, which is likely to be about £40.

  • Dizzy #13 2 years ago

    "However on the 360 you would pay your ISP, then Live then MMO on top. That's quite expensive for most people... "

    MMOs would work on free Silver Accounts.

  • hiddenranbir #14 2 years ago

    Grinding is a no no for all of us. Grr.

  • M_of_the_sys #15 2 years ago

    @Chazmeister

    I wish my locals were that cheap...

  • sneetch #16 2 years ago

    When MS allows us to use keyboard and mouse and download addons for the MMO du jour then I might agree. :)

    It depends on what they mean by MMO of course, "traditional" MMOs like WoW won't be great on consoles because of the control requirements but a game like Planetside could have rocked on console.

    Whether or not the general console-owning populace agrees with Turbine remains to be seen.

  • SeesThroughAll #17 2 years ago

    But are PS3 owners willing to suddenly start paying to play a game online (as they are enjoying free online play now)

    Some might, as it's something optional in that case. Just like on PC.

  • Xerx3s #18 2 years ago

    "Some might, as it's something optional in that case. Just like on PC. "

    When was paying for a mmo (of note) optional?

  • tossetaz #19 2 years ago

    @Xerx3s What he means is that they don't pay any subscription already as it is with the pc.

  • jonfon #20 2 years ago

    @Dizzy :
    > "Console is superior MMO platform"

    > Err????

    I think he means "Console is a superior MMO platform because unlike the PC it isn't currently a saturated market with an 800lb gorilla called WoW to compete with".

  • vapofusion #21 2 years ago

    you wouldn't pay a live subscription for mmo's because you would only need a silver membership because the developers would set up their own server farms just like on the ps3 that's why ps3 is free and 360 is subscription based. remember their is already final fantasy XI on 360 and you don't need a gold membership for that granted it is awful and no one would pay money for that but it does work.

  • Tio #22 2 years ago

    @Jonfon you have it answered honestly, WoW has sewn up the pc market and every new day brings a new MMo report for the pc and within a year we are reading about merged or closed servers for the MAJORITY of them, only last week a report on the failures of the so called last WoW beater Warhammer online.

    I think people are less against paying for things then other seem to think. I personally got used to monthly paying with DAoC all those years ago, even 5 years ago people were saying well WoW might get half a million subscribers, no one likes to play monthly. Remember when we were told that we were going to have to pay monthly for TV ( SKY) we all said no way , but if the product is good people will pay for it (I now pay £50 a month for HD sky, after swearing blind I wouldn't pay for TV).

    XBOX owners well its easy to find 13 month subs for 27.99 (just tried it) and XBOX owners are already used to paying monthly, we might be right if we say " well XBOX owners wouldn't pay more " I certainly FEEL that way. however I have paid more for game addons , extra levels and I know a lot of people who do, not only that, avatar items and backgrounds and gamer pics. XBOX owners are (generally) happy to pay out more on top of subs.

    PS3 owners well I suspect the same is true for them there are plenty of extra levels, game addons available that sell fairly well on PSN, I dont just mean games that we all pay for but the "extras" , I genuinely feel that much like pay tv PS3 owners , for the right product, would pay monthly subs.

    I think a console MMO if done correctly will be the next big thing perhaps even bigger than WoW, and I would suggest that just about every company worth its salt is considering making one as the model provided by Blizzard is second to none.
    Edited by 1 at 21/09/09 @ 17:07

  • Dizzy #23 2 years ago

    "some 360 games, like EA titles, already use their own servers. dont see silver members being allowed to connect to them... "

    That is because they are not MMOs you peanut!

  • TheTingler #24 2 years ago

    Well done Turbine for that bold attempt to piss off or alienate your entire customer base. (Number of customers playing Turbine games on PS3/360 = zero)

    Up until this article I would've defended Turbine to the hilt. Lord of the Rings Online is one of the only MMOs that are standing up well against WoW, and that's because Turbine have been extremely good to their customers. Providing new content very quickly and often freely as well as great attention to detail, LOTRO is the only MMO I am currently a fan of.

    If Turbine doesn't want my cash and my support, feel free to piss off to console land, where MMOs flourish... just because there's no Warcraft, doesn't mean there's no competition - or indeed, other games players would rather play!

  • Machiavellian #25 2 years ago

    There is already two MMOs on the 360 and neither of them needs a GOLD sub in order to play. I am sure that will be the case for any other MMOs on the 360. MS probably gets their money from the Devs instead cause you know MS is not the one to let money slip away from them.

    Sony on the other hand will probably charge devs for bandwidth cost like they do now for demos.

  • Diomedes #26 2 years ago

    Richard Leadbetter ,the Blu Ray has only slower access that the DVD if you take in count the maximum DVD speed ...that can only be achieved in the inner tracks of the DVD ...for the outside tracks and specially if you have 2 layers of data the DVD is much slower.THe Blu Ray is a more recent technology,its not divided in tracks and have the same speed access to the integrity of the disc at any time ,wich results in way better technology for streaming data for example.

    Why do you keep your Sony hate and idiocies?How do you pretend to be taken seriously with your DF charade when you dont even understand some of the basic things about tech?

  • Ryuken #27 2 years ago

    Dream on, Turbine.

  • pinochet_cz #28 2 years ago

    PS3 conversion on 360 == bastard. Learn from mistakes of others.

  • Subquest #29 2 years ago

    The only upcoming MMO that can possibly poach large numbers of WoW players, I think, is Star Trek.

    As for console MMOs - text input, hence a keyboard, is vital to build and sustain any MMO community - voice input just won't cut it when building guilds and organising events. Sure, you can plug a keyboard into a console no problem - but how many will? The reason many console gamers shun the PC is for the laid back living room experience, so the whole 'put down pad, pick up keyboard... put down keyboard, pick up pad' thing - I just don't see it working for the majority of console gamers, so you can forget about your 2.3 billion.

  • Markusdragon #30 2 years ago

    I think by 'superior MMO platform' he means 'platform that isn't dominated by WoW'

  • davisorle #31 2 years ago

    Its interesting that in the articale says they aim for PS3 as lead when in the keynotes if go through the whole thing you can highlight those things said by Craig Alexander:

    •The Blu-ray drive on the PS3 is actually slower in seek and access time than the DVD drive on the Xbox 360. Once the Blu-ray gets up to speed, it can handle large amount of data. Just not in seeking and accessing, which is a pain for streaming when you're playing something like an MMO.
    •The memory architecture is different. When you're dealing with main memory, you work with "256ish MB" on the PS3 vs "512ish MB" on the 360.
    •The tools aren't as friendly on the PS3. That includes the performance monitor tools, the debugger tools ... everything.
    •Migrating a project from the Xbox 360 to the PS3 is much harder than moving from the PS3 to the 360.

    Those are copy pasted so im just sharing.

  • TheTingler #32 2 years ago

    @Subquest I think Star Wars: The Old Republic will get a lot too, but it depends on a lot of factors...