Trackmania United Review

By John Walker Published 26 February, 2007

United we stand, united we crash into a wall.

Version tested: PC

Start

Here are the two greatest things about Trackmania: The instant restart, and bouncing on water. The two encapsulate everything you need to know about the lunatic action racing, with its crack-like "one more go" addiction, and the nonsensically playful fun of when you when and you and... CRASH.

Restart

Nothing makes me swear like Trackmania. The language that's come out of my mouth over the last few days would wilt a field of the sturdiest flowers. My little kitten has been blushing through his fur and jumping from the desk in horror at the new words his cute widdle ears have been learning. And indeed the new combinations of words. I think the phrase about which I am most proud so far has been "cockflaps". Let alone the astonishing stringing together of all manner of foulness as I've failed to make a jump for the forty-seventh time in a row. As if a sailor were bred with a... oh, um... PUS-FILLED BUM-SHI...

Restart

If you've liked Trackmania games in the past, then you're sure to love... KABOOM!

Restart

Remember when you were a kid, and you have one of those pull-back cars that would then zoom forward? And so you'd build it tracks out of whatever you had. For me it was a collection of deathly dull, but tall and narrow, Christian hard-back picture books. Placed on stacked up encyclopaedias from the shelf in the lounge, these could create fantastic long roadways for my car to race along, flying off the end and landing in a potted plant. The trick was, getting the angles of the slopes correct, such that they'd support the car at top speed for the longest distance. Twenty five years later, and Christian picture books are no longer necessary... Well, not for, oh, well, you know... CLANG.

Restore to checkpoint

It is, as a wise man once said four paragraphs ago, like crack. You can't stop, no matter how much it's hurting, no matter how much other work you should be doing, no matter when the review's due in. Trackmania's is a world where mistakes last only until you hit Delete and inject yourself all over again. Except, of course, it's nothing like a terrible and dangerous drug, just in case Nadeo object to the comparison for some silly reason. Oh dear. CRASH.

Restore to checkpoint

'Trackmania United' Screenshot 1

Health and safety at this race course must be a nightmare.

Come on Walker, concentrate. Stay on the tracks.

Trackmania is a splendid idea. It's the PC's little treat that it doesn't share with the other boys and girls. It's instantaneous fun, playable in a fifteen second break, or an afternoon of swearing fury. It's, as this review should have said a long time ago, a racing game where the tracks weave madly about, loop-the-loop, and spend more time vertical than is reasonable, challenging you to fling varied cars along their harebrained, hairpin routes. Trackmania United is the same principle, this time with its gaming community put right at the centre.

The third proper incarnation of the series (ignoring add-ons and the downloadable Nations), little of the core has changed since the utterly superb Sunrise. The game is still split into three modes: Race, Puzzle and Platform, and then there's the options to create your own tracks to play and share. What's strikingly different this time is that the sharing is integrated throughout, and even given currency.

In each mode you can practise a track in Training as often as you like, with the game recording your best times, and unlocking new areas as you complete courses at least at a bronze level. However, this is only for your own private play. At any point you can restart a track as Official, and suddenly you're competing with the whole world. Even better, you can specify the localised nature of your competition, such that I've been taking on those in the South West of England. (Nadeo have rather sensibly shipped the game in French to France, Australia, Canada, Belgium and Switzerland, so that there's already a decent community established for us English lot before the game's launch). Your time (for Race and Puzzle) or your number of restarts (for Platform) is posted on the high score tables present on the screen from which you selected the level, and should you do well enough, you'll be reward with Coppers.

Coppers are the in-game currency that funds everything. Getting Bronze, Silver or Gold finishes awards you Coppers (5, 10 and 20 respectively), and sharing tracks or skins you've created will earn you a few too. Even booting the game each day gives you a few coins to spend, so you'll never be stony broke. Your first Official attempt at a track will be free, but after that it's going to cost you 10C a time to try and post a high score. Want to download a new track for the Island section of the game? 10C please. It will appear on the menu as a new track, created by another player, which upon completion you can rate its quality. Then there's even an in-game marketplace, Manialink, with (rather ugly) in-game MySpace-style websites from player groups offering their wares at varying prices.

'Trackmania United' Screenshot 2

The camera occasionally leaps out to give you excellent views for, er, taking screenshots, but not much else.

You may well say: But hang on, couldn't I download people's tracks and skins without all this Copper business in previous versions? To which the answer is: Er, yes. So is it a good idea? Answer: Not entirely sure.

As discussed, you'll rarely be out of coin, but at the same time, charging 10C to attempt a high score, for which a Silver result only rewards you the Coppers you spent trying, seems imbalanced. This is not an easy game, and Gold isn't always a synch. But you can practise a track as much as you wish "for free", before attempting an Official, until you've got it perfect. And of course, you never need even touch that whole side of things, playing resolutely offline in Training, and have the very same experience the original Trackmania or Sunrise would have offered.

The other worry is quite how hard United is. By far my favourite part of Sunrise (and indeed United) is the Platform mode, where rather than racing, the aim is to reach the finish line with as few checkpoint restarts as possible. This is made difficult by the courses being ludicrously shaped, requiring pinpoint jumps, perfect corners, and ridiculous leaps into the sky. Figuring out a route, then perfecting it, is amazingly fun. The trouble is, this time around it gets madly tough really early on. Of the four difficulty levels - Easy, Normal, Difficult and Extreme - Normal features some tracks that seem like they should be nowhere near such an innocuous sounding mode. There's a line between swearing at yourself for messing up over and over, and swearing at the game for being so idiotically unfair at certain points. Of course, there's Official scores posted by everyone else in the world completing them with 0 restarts, but screw those people - I want more Platform levels at my useless level, rather than so very hard so early on.

Race is much more balanced, with the huge number of tracks getting more challenging at an ideal pace. Plus, if you're rubbish like me, completing Easy is all it takes to unlock the next area of tracks, so you'll have dozens and dozens easily accessible almost straight away. And as you do move up past Normal, the race courses begin to take on many of the aspects from Platform, requiring much more finesse and trickery than simply handling the corners well. It manages the factor that so many games forget - it gets more /interesting/ rather than simply speeding up the opponents.

Puzzle, as Trackmania was bizarrely meant to be played originally, once again takes Bronze. There's nothing wrong with it at all, but its necessary fiddliness takes the edge off. You're given a simplified version of the track editor, a limited number of tiles to place, and a time limit to complete the course you create. It's still a lovely idea, and often bewilderingly hard. Balance your limited resources with the need for imaginative short-cuts, and you'll get there. And the game's amazing ability to render itself from editor to playable track without a pause, simply zooming in and plonking a car down, remains deeply satisfying.

Then there's the multiplayer, letting you play over LAN, or just leap in with a bunch of strangers attempting to score best times on a selected track. Oh, and you can download players' ghosts if they're top of a track's chart so you can see how they achieved such excellent times.

'Trackmania United' Screenshot 3

The kitten designed this one. Honest.

That's Trackmania's secret. It's deeply satisfying, while at the same time being more frustrating than you could possibly imagine. It's a contradiction until you've played it. Its instant, load-free restart alone deserves a place in gaming's imaginary hall of fame. However, this time out, it does seem to have gone just a bit too difficult. Putting the community at the centre, and integrating the sharing tools is absolutely fantastic. The Coppers system inhibiting your ability to interact with it with complete freedom seems less so. And the menus with which it's all controlled feel clumsy and are near-impossible to navigate with a gamepad. (Ah yes - which do you use: the keyboard or a pad? My choice: both. I switch back and forth as the mood takes me, the analogue of the pad excellent for smooth cornering in races, while the digital steering of the cursors making for much more precise platform movement).

It's only going to get better after release, with the accompanying explosion of downloadable tracks (there's already 200 new ones, and a bunch of classic tracks in there), which will presumably take care of the lack of courses for the less lightning-fingered-perfect-pants types. So throw away your religious hardbacks and fill your young pets' ears with cotton wool. Trackmania's back.

Finish

Woo!

8 / 10

Read the Eurogamer.net scoring policy
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About John Walker

Read more articles from John by visiting the John Walker archive page.

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Comments (90) Latest comment 5 years ago

Comments threads automatically close after 30 days, but please feel free to continue chatting on the forum!

  • Darren #1 5 years ago

    I tried the two previous TrackMania demos and I absolutely loved 'em but for some bizarre reason I could just not bring myself to buy the full game. Why? Well because the game as a whole feels more like a polished demo than a full game worthy of my £25. The track design and speed are awesome but I'm not too keen on the way other cars appear as ghosts, it kind of removes any competitive element from the game and makes it feel more like a time trial. Had there been a proper arcade racing mode, you against other cars, then I'd have definitely bought the game. Maybe I'm just missing the point of the game though... it is loads of fun I admit.

  • PearOfAnguish #2 5 years ago

    Gave up with United, the platform mode is so infuriating it makes me want to tear my eyeballs out in frustration.

  • Arganoid #3 5 years ago

    Having all the other players' cars being ghost cars is genius. If players collided with each other, it would be impossible to have the fantastic sight of 20+ players competing on the same bit of track. Plus you'd constantly find your race being screwed up by other peoples' mistakes.

  • Der_tolle_Emil #4 5 years ago

    This is great. I bought all the TrackManias before and it's one of the finest racing games.

  • aldo_14 #5 5 years ago

    I loved trackmania, but Starforce caused me too many problems :(

  • skillian #6 5 years ago

    I loved trackmania, but Starforce caused me too many problems :(

    Ditto. So this one uses StarForce too?

    EG should mention this in the review, it's a big factor in the purchase/don't purchase decision.

  • jebus #7 5 years ago

    Ah Starforce - the only thing Starforce does is penalise legitimate users. In fact the same could be said about most copy protection.

    I too will never buy another game that uses Starforce. In fact if I want the game badly enough it actually forces me to download an illegal copy instead. Which is kind of an odd situation to be forced into.

  • asphaltcowboy #8 5 years ago

    Love TM, will probably get this :)

  • qster #9 5 years ago

    Looks great but I'm sticking with TM Nations.

    Never had a problem with Starforce either.

  • blicko #10 5 years ago

    After a quick google, it does indeed look like it is (once again) infected with Starforce. And (once again) I'll pass on this one.

  • step #11 5 years ago

    "it [no collision] kind of removes any competitive element from the game and makes it feel more like a time trial"

    Darren, that IS the competitve element in Trackmania, always has been and hopefully always will be. When you've got 20 people on a track, all restarting whenever the hell they want trying to get to the top of a leaderboard in the few minutes before the track switches, car collision would make it a horribly frustrating broken mess. It's all about the perfect lap, and for that I love it.

  • Kain_Cross #12 5 years ago

    Looks great, but I'll pass if it's still using Starforce.

  • Willum #13 5 years ago

    Superb game. Yep, it's pretty damn hard at times but who wants an easy game anyway? ;) You can add your own tracks and downloaded ones to the solo mode this time around as well, so you can customise your single player experience based on your track design tastes.

    You can buy and download the game right now if anyone is interested from here:

    [link url=http://tmu.gamesplanet.com/campagne/pr omo.html?partenaire=9&jeu=Trackmania
    ]http://tm u.gamesplanet.com/campagne/prom...[/link]

    I think it's out in March in the shops.

  • Talha #14 5 years ago

    It DOES use Starforce, and therefore we should all UNITE and not buy it!

  • Azazel #15 5 years ago

    Had some amount of fun with Trackmania nations :D

    A racing game with air control = just the ticket for a Quakeworld nut 8)

  • calexico #16 5 years ago

    Hi all. I must say 1 or 2 things about the protection of TM United:

    - It's starforce but a light version. Not these f...ing drivers, you must just put the DVD once in 5 days.

    - If you d'ont believe the Tm protection is not evil just buy the downloable version ;)
    [link url=https://buy.metaboli.com/vnt/pa nier.html?partenaire=9&id_titre=178&langue_page=en
    ]https://b uy.metaboli.com/vnt/panier.html...[/link]
    No Starforce on it :)


    I just forgot to say that I played this game since november and it's fantastic ;)
    Edited by 1 at 26/02/07 @ 12:51

  • Matfink #17 5 years ago

    Starforce = the devil's 'cockflaps'.
    No buy for me either :p

  • skillian #18 5 years ago

    I hope Nadeo/Asceron can see what they're doing with this stupid copy protection. Most other companies seem to have ditched it by now.

    Perhaps they have some sort of contract for the next few years that they can't get out of. Rather than protecting sales, surely StarForce is actually losing sales for them now?

  • asphaltcowboy #19 5 years ago

    Well, you could just do what calexico suggested and buy the online version that doesn't have starforce...

  • skillian #20 5 years ago

    I probably will if I can get confirmation. His link is broken atm.

  • Eraser #21 5 years ago

    Brilliant game. 'nuff said.

  • botherer #22 5 years ago

    Yes chappies, it does have Starforce. But as another said, it's not the vile version that makes you reboot your machine while its tentacles entwine with everything that once worked.

  • Hylis #23 5 years ago

    About platform difficulties. It's my fault. Once the player have down 0 try, he can not improve its score. So I have increased the difficulty a lot. It was a difficult call to do. I even not get the gold medal on the last one: PlatformE, but I wanted to give lasting appeal to the expert out there.

    To Skillian: there is no starforce drivers on TrackMania United. It has been used even in the free TrackMania Nations to avoid cheating. We have work hard to avoid to use this version with drivers. Now it is like a normal executable without any system program. TrackMania United is not on the boycott list probably because of that. We are interested to welcome the players that can understand that. And I hope you do!

  • skillian #24 5 years ago

    @Hylis:

    That's good to know, and from reading I understand this time round StarForce just protects the .exe without loading any drivers.

    Trouble is I've learned to distrust the StarForce name, and it's not a good thing to be nervous about installing a game on my PC. Once I've heard a few reports that it's fine, then I'll jump right in!

    Loved the game when I tried it before, so if you're a dev on this, congrats on a such a innovative, fun game :)

  • nakke #25 5 years ago

    Yup, it doesn't have the actual starforce drivers, just an dvd & exe checker (though you don't even need to have the DVD in drive while playing). But I still think it's silly to support the company that makes starforce (Protection Technology) just for that. Oh well.

    The game itself is awesome! Just needs a bit polishing, particularly in the server browser and the ability to see world times at all times (not just when you're among the 100 best), and it'd be perfect. Oh, and the french people on online servers need to learn to speak english ;) (Atleast when talking to non-french people..)

  • Snooz #26 5 years ago

    Played and still play TM nations, the free version, daily. Got tired of it and then discovered the "rounds" game mode. This mode force you to wait for the next round if you crash, thus making you drive more with care than the time trial flat-out-and-see-what-happens-restart-every-3rd-checkpoint.< br />
    If you're fed up with time trial, do the rounds mode. The tracks aren't that insane because you'd want the drivers to finish and receive points for each round.

    Finishing a track flawlessly AND beating better ranked players several rounds is IMO way more like an actual race than the time trail mode. Seeing how your line through a combo of turns gives you a slight advantage every round is also one of the little perks that makes me always choosing this game mode.

  • UncleLou #27 5 years ago

    8/10 - it looks average

    /doesn't understand that comment

  • Hypocee #28 5 years ago

    Just to be extra-clear after Hylis' statement about "no starforce drivers", that applies only (possibly) to the download version. The boxed copy still has the Black Death:

    [link url=http://www.angry-gamer.net/ ag/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=339&Itemid=28
    ]    http://ww w.angry-gamer.net/ag/index.php?...[/link]

    And no, now that you mention it AG, this wasn't mentioned in the review. Hm!

    Also, "synch" != "cinch".

  • Munin #29 5 years ago

    Is John Walker the new Kieron Gillen?

  • polymorph #30 5 years ago

    my personal fave game induced swear is still COCKSOCK!!

  • Subquest #31 5 years ago

    c'mon people, all this starforce nonsense... you can download the game from here without starforce. But be honest, starforce is only a problem to you because it works...

    Anyway, the game: utterly brilliant when online in stadium mode (stadium > all other modes). Arcade racing at it's finest, no question. Truthfully though, the free Nations download captures the best of the full game.

  • Mocib #32 5 years ago

    The best thing to ever happen to PC arcade racing genre gets a 8/10 score. Worse score than Burnout, for example. Unbelievable.

    Seems like Eurogamer does not realise what they reviewed. They gave 8/10 to a masterpiece that is truly innovative, has endless (not "a weekends worth";) replay value, has killer bang-for-your-buck ratio and is tons and tons of pure fun.
    Edited by 2 at 26/02/07 @ 15:15

  • Hypocee #33 5 years ago

    If we wanted to steal this game we'd go do it; it's all over the torrents, kiddo. We want to support this dev and we're frustrated that they won't allow us to do it safely.

  • Subquest #34 5 years ago

    So why don't you just download it then, kiddo. The dev would see a greater %age of the cash!

  • JonFE #35 5 years ago

    @ Hylis: could you or someone else from Nadeo's technical support drop me an email (in my profile). I purchased the original TrackMania a year ago directly from Nadeo and still haven't been able to play with it.

  • botherer #36 5 years ago

    "Is John Walker the new Kieron Gillen?"

    How DARE you? What did I do to deserve that?

  • botherer #37 5 years ago

    "Seems like Eurogamer does not realise what they reviewed. They gave 8/10 to a masterpiece that is truly innovative, has endless (not "a weekends worth";) replay value and is tons and tons of pure fun."

    Yes, the final-nail-in-the-coffin score that is 8/10. On a scale of 8 to 10, that's as low as you can go!

    You nit.

    Trackmania Sunrise received 9/10 from EG because it really was "truly innovative".

    Have a peak at the review I so lovingly wrote for you. It explains it all splendidly.
    Edited by 1 at 26/02/07 @ 15:14

  • Mocib #38 5 years ago

    Whatever, botherer...

    But I still firmly stand by my opinion. TMU deserves a 9, at least. Shame on you.

  • Waldo #39 5 years ago

    The TrackMania games are awesome.

  • calexico #40 5 years ago

    It's just a note. 8,9, 10, 7 ,6 ... No matters. The most important is the article ;)

  • Willum #41 5 years ago

    Indeed, the score is just a rough guide. My ideal way of reivewing anything would be to drop the scores completly, just have an article.

  • Hylis #42 5 years ago

    And TrackMania United was voted number 1 best game of the year. But the world is full of injustice. And we are doomed. And Botherer is mega evil of the land of the dark side review makers.

    To be more constructive, I think United is at its best for community member or new comers, but a little less for another category. It is difficult to relate this in one single score, it depends on which category you focus more. So there is no problem here for me.

    But the more I read the article, the more I think I should have bribed Botherer with coppers. It seems he needs some. Mouahahahaa. Restart.
    Edited by 1 at 26/02/07 @ 15:46

  • botherer #43 5 years ago

    :p

  • Frogger #44 5 years ago

    AlMcD
    26-Feb-07 11:48:25

    This is crying out for a console version. XBLA? Mmm.




    Unfortunately, it seems to me that the guys at Nadeo are rather PC-platform fundamentalists. I'd like to play the Trackmania games on my 360, but I'm afraid I'll never have the chance to do so.

  • paketep #45 5 years ago

    I agree with everybody. The review should be one word long and read STARFORCE.

    Even if it's a no-driver version. I refuse to pay (even if it's via Nadeo) a single cent to those Russian bast... errr... ex-hackers. I had way too many problems with the previous Trackmanias (all of which I bought) to forget so soon.

    TMU is cracked and you can find it easily in any P2P network. Why make customers suffer through SF (light or not) when pirates are playing free of it?.

    Guess I'll just keep on being one of those "persons with dumb behaviour" that Hylis/Florent doesn't want in his community.

  • DUFFKING #46 5 years ago

    Hmm, I could whine about starfarce or I could simply ecourage everyone to enjoy the best, most addictive, most fun, most exciting racing game of recent years.

    Also, those who complain about a lack of collisions are wrong. Comepletely wrong. How ridiculous would a game like this be with 20 people going round a loop the loop/crossover/jump at once? Nobody, nobody would ever be able to complete a lap...
    Edited by 1 at 26/02/07 @ 16:54

  • smelly #47 5 years ago

    At this point I normally point out that 99.99% of all hatred against starforce is started by pirates who have trouble cracking it properly (and subsequently made up a load of bullshit about it). But because most users of forums are brainless morons who read something somewhere and instantly believe it to be true, i wont bother.

    >TMU is cracked and you can find it easily in any P2P network.

    Good luck playing that online.

  • sMull #48 5 years ago

    Darren, you ARE missing the point. And DUFFKING you are right, having collisions would be the biggest mistake ever in Trackmania.
    Edited by 1 at 26/02/07 @ 17:19

  • Hypocee #49 5 years ago

    That doesn't render our ".01%" invalid, and LAN to the what now? Whoops!

  • Pablo2k5 #50 5 years ago

    yellowtruck said... "8/10 - it looks average."

    Yes, it 'looks' average but my god, it plays like a mutha fukka! ;-)
    It's as addictive as crack!

  • UncleLou #51 5 years ago

    Yes, it 'looks' average

    Really can't agree - Trackmania looks terrific with the right settings. Blows "next gen" Ridge Racer and similar stuff completely out of the water. :)

  • AtomicBanana #52 5 years ago

    'Good luck playing that online. '

    Hamachi is good enough for many a pirate :]

  • alcolepone #53 5 years ago

    ok, everyone is missing the point - this needs to come out on XBLA - it would be amazing, and yes, no starforce

  • Hypocee #54 5 years ago

    Hear hear! I don't even own a 360 and I'd still rejoice to see that happen. It nearly has an XBox Live in it already.

  • Der_tolle_Emil #55 5 years ago

    I have this for a couple of weeks now - it was (and maybe still is) available online. The version does not need a disc and I'm not even sure it came with StarForce. So you might check it out. As far as I can remember it could be bought on the official trackmania homepage.

  • smelly #56 5 years ago

    @Der_tolle_Emil :

    Yes the downloaded version has starforce..
    No it doesnt matter.

    Unless your in the vast minority of people who CLAIM it breaks your pc (which I've never actually seen any proof of it happening). ... If it didnt break your pc, then there's no worries.

    And im 100% adamant that it wont break your pc.

    And knowing how starforce works, i wouldnt trust ANY cracked copy.. but if you download a cracked game, you deserve everything you get.

  • Hypocee #57 5 years ago

    Man, I absolutely *knew* you wouldn't leave it alone, smelly. You haven't personally watched, by your silly number, ten thousand people install a game? Do tell!

    These guys are just teh piratezz they sould be trusted less tan teh peeple who makes money from the progrm!

    Greg Vederman, senior editor and former technology editor of PC Gamer US: From functioning, to BSOD on insertion of audio CDs. Problem goes away with removal of Starforce.
    [link url=http://www.n ext-gen.biz/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=2445&I temid=2&limit=1&limitstart=0
    ]http://ww w.next-gen.biz/index.php?option...[/link]

    Flamey, leader of Angry-Gamer: PC goes from functioning to no access to DVD drives (different article).
    [link url=http://www.angry-gamer.net/ ag/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=353&Itemid=49
    ]    http://ww w.angry-gamer.net/ag/index.php?...[/link]

    Please note that I'm not holding either guy up as a paragon of technical knowledge. I'm saying that they're high-profile figures whose functional PCs broke in documented manners upon the introduction of Starforce. There goes your 100%.
    Edited by 1 at 26/02/07 @ 21:24

  • Der_tolle_Emil #58 5 years ago

    I never experienced problems with StarForce either. CityLife works, TrackMania works.

    Being a geek I'll have to admit StarForce at least works and I really understand why developers choose it. It's the only effective copy protection I know. I doubt it destroys any more PCs or causes any more incompatibilities than other copy protections. A lot of Lower/Upper Filters cause incompatibilities and can bring a PC to crash, just for your information, I had to manually remove Apple's iTunes filters just to get my DVD Burner working again.

    I know this technical blahblah does not mean anything to a consumer but, although being a huge Microsoft supporter, this is more Windows' fault due to the nature of drivers running at ring 0.

    I can almost guarantee you that having a clean system without unneccessary upper/lowerfilters and StarForce will work like it does without StarForce.

    At the very least it's a bit childish to miss out on a great game just because of StarForce. I really doubt that everyone here has problems with it - just because someone else has that does not mean the thing is bad.
    Edited by 1 at 26/02/07 @ 21:38

  • smelly #59 5 years ago

    No i said.. if it didnt break your pc, then it wont break your pc.

    You need to chill out.

  • smelly #60 5 years ago

    @Der_tolle_Emil :

    At last! Someone who talks common sense!

    Seems to me, like a small VERY minority of people have trouble, it's blown out of proportion by the pirates.. and all of a sudden everyone goes on about it being evil, despite the fact it's done nothing bad to their specific pc's at all!

  • smelly #61 5 years ago

    @Hypocee : As the article you've posted states. If it causes problems with your pc, uninstall starforce.

    It doesnt "break your machine beyond all repair", so therefor there's no reason not to buy games, or download demos which use starforce if they dont cause problems on your pc.

    And even if they do, you can uninstall it, and problem gone!

    So why blow it out of all proportion? Why say "well im not gonna buy it, im gonna pirate it instead?" Seems to me just to be making excuses for why you wont buy a game.

  • Hypocee #62 5 years ago

    "Unless your in the vast minority of people who CLAIM it breaks your pc (which I've never actually seen any proof of it happening)"

    I give you credit for gall if nothing else. I would have expected you to at least edit out your silly statement before denying that you made it.

    I don't understand how Starforce can be considered "effective" in this case when pirated versions of TM:U are floating all over. It has worked (as far as I know) on a couple of big-ticket games. If the answer is that pirates can't join the community, then...that's a username/password. The only good argument here, and it is a good argument, is that it supposedly prevents cheating.

  • Der_tolle_Emil #63 5 years ago

    People will complain for whatever reason. Maybe because copy protection is something bad. Noone really knows why, but for some reason it's bad.

  • Hypocee #64 5 years ago

    Whoops! This is the kind of game that you install for a long time. Yeah, I'm going to install it, then *maybe* get my system clean, every time I want to dip in for a half hour.

    I haven't pirated TM:U and I don't intend to; I have some disposable income and in general I can't be bothered to steal stuff these days.

  • Hypocee #65 5 years ago

    Copy-protection's not bad (well, really it is but for the purposes of this argument I concede). You don't see me bitching about SecuROM or whatever. Invasive, dangerous software is bad. Assume I'm one of the lucky 98%. I install this junk and everything is fine. A year down the road, I install a new optical drive. Hard drive. CD burning program. DVD player. Audio player. My computer gets unstable, and I don't know why. It must be the new thing, right? Two weeks of troubleshooting later, I finally remember that oh yeah - that *one time* I deliberately violated all the rules and installed an untrustworthy program with Ring 0 oversight. Once you do that, you can't trust your machine anymore. Quite aside from mysterious failures that are Starforce's fault, who knows what could come along and exploit this? In a matter of weeks malware was using the Sony rootkit to prevent removal.
    Edited by 1 at 26/02/07 @ 22:04

  • UncleLou #66 5 years ago

    look, everyone is missing the point - this needs to come out on XBLA - it would be amazing, and yes, no starforce

    I am sure the famous console modding community will turn this into a long-time favourite, with everyone designing tracks with their 360 pads. ;p

    On a more serious note, isn't XBLA more for smaller, low-budget games?

  • DUFFKING #67 5 years ago

    The track editor would be shite on consoles too, to be honest.

  • Chtulie #68 5 years ago

    Restore to checkpoint is back from the original? 'Cause I sure missed that option and be stuck with the 'restart from way in the beginning' in the races of the later games.

  • smelly #69 5 years ago

    >The track editor would be shite on consoles too, to be honest

    cant see why?

    works okay just using the keyboard (I do that instead of using mouse tbh)

  • Der_tolle_Emil #70 5 years ago

    The editor would work. I don't use it intensively but when I do I mostly use the keyboard. Put tile selection on the triggers and you're done.

  • UnConeD #71 5 years ago

    "Unless your in the vast minority of people who CLAIM it breaks your pc (which I've never actually seen any proof of it happening)"

    Actually, I experienced just that.

    I somehow ended up with Starforce on my PC (I think it was XIII that did that) and tried to install Daemon Tools. In the middle of the installation, my computer simply rebooted (no clean shutdown). After the reboot, I was left with a half-installed cd device that could not easily be removed. Re-installing had the same effect, and each time it added another half-installed device.

    I also tried Alcohol 120%, which can also mount cd images, with exactly the same result.

    Took me ages to find a forum topic somewhere that described this issue (and it was in German). I removed Starforce using a tool, and Daemon Tools installed without problems. I still had to hack the registry to remove those bad devices though.

    Now, image mounting tools can be used for piracy, but they have plenty of legitimate uses too. Heck, Mac OS X has built-in support for mounting of various images and uses them as the preferred way of distributing software online. There is no excuse for a commercially bought game destabilizing my computer like this.

    Now there are two options:
    1) Starforce prevents installation of image mounting software on purpose to deter piracy
    OR
    2) Starforce's low-level fucking around with CD devices is simply buggy and unintentionally prevents the installation of cd image mounting software.

    This was a couple years ago, so it's possible that this particular issue has been resolved. Not that it matters: in both cases above, the problem would not exist if it wasn't for the game company wanting to tell me what I can do on my machine.

    DRM is hopefully on its way out, and I see no reason why CD copy protection shouldn't follow suit. None of these cookie cutter protections are effective against piracy (unlike e.g. the use of CD keys for online play). They're just scams to sap money away from naive game publishers.
    Edited by 1 at 27/02/07 @ 07:07

  • Der_tolle_Emil #72 5 years ago

    StarForce refuses to work (like many other copy protections) when it detects both an IDE disc drive and a SCSI disc drive. It's very unusual that a PC has both an IDE and SCSI disc drive. Since it was usually the case that virtual CDRoms were emulated as SCSI drive you can nearly always assume that a mixture of an IDE CDRom and a SCSI CDRom was due to the fact that the SCSI one is only an emulated drive. StarForce refuses to work when there are virtual drives installed, which is a real pain since a lot of people use virtual disc drives for a good (ie. non illegal) reason. But so do many other copy protections. It's just that with other copy protections noone really cares all that much because they can so easily be cracked. SecuRom etc. all refuse to start games when a virtual disc drive is installed.

    That's the reason why you could not install daemon tools.

  • Hylis #73 5 years ago

    To Hypocee: you seem to clearly understand the potential problems. As the developer, I can assure you that there is no ring0 or whatever in the box edition of TrackMania United. There is also no resident program like for some other protections. You install and run, and this is why the PC Zone writer was surprised.

    Meanwhile, some writers advertise illegal downloads, poor online experience and proprietary platform, home of monopole and software patents. Software patents are so bad for global development of games and arms all the customers. But maybe it is too distant for them to understand, it's a shame.

  • Subquest #74 5 years ago

    Isn't it the case that if you pirate the game you are unable to compete online? If so, then with this game, in my opinion the current pinnacle of online arcade gaming, you're missing 80% of the fun. That it can be played offline is merely a bonus.

    But then having not pirated the game, I'm not sure if this is true...

    Shameless plug for my readers review...

  • Subquest #75 5 years ago

    If they were to bring it to XBLA, maybe they could link into the current online library of tracks. Those that want to create tracks would have to buy the PC version, but I see no reason why this game wouldn't work on a console - it makes complete financial sense to do so, but then Nadeo are a strange company - Nations was surely the greatest free game of recent times?

  • Hylis #76 5 years ago

    I like when you say we are a strange company. I have turned down big offers for console. We like to be totally independant and TrackMania will be on console when we will have the right to publish on it without asking persmission. If I was a movie director, I would not like to ask permission to make a movie and to release it.

    If one day, we do a version on a console, you can be sure we will be damned rich and that the offer is so big that it gives us much more independance for a looooong time.

    I have less trouble with Nintendo, because, even if there are some approvals... they do not have the plan to control the world to make more money. They are making their toys and offers other people to develop under certain rules on it, for quality insurance. In a word, their goal is not to be 'anywhere'

  • botherer #77 5 years ago

    smelly, the damned thing has broken my PC, so you can add me to your list.

    I get all the fun of a BSOD when putting in discs into my drive, but to make it more fun, only sometimes! So putting a disc in the drive requires that I save anything open, and prepare to reboot - not exactly what I'm after from my machine.

    Don't confuse something not happening to you with something not happening.
    Edited by 1 at 27/02/07 @ 10:36

  • BremXJones #78 5 years ago

    "Is John Walker the new Kieron Gillen?"

    No. He can spell.

    KG

  • Matfink #79 5 years ago

    +1 to the 'Starforce fooked my pc crew'.

    The TM DEMO(FFS!) made my system so unstable (nothing dodgy installed) that a crash wiped out all my emails in Outlook. Could probably blame that on Microsoft's shite Outlook, but if my system hadn't crashed, the emails would have been fine.

  • Frogger #80 5 years ago

    Hylis
    27-Feb-07 10:29:43

    So you dont want to develop the game for videogame consoles, because some of them (mostly Sony and MS as far as I can understand your statement) wants to "control the world". You say that you are ready to earn less money because you want to be faithful to your principles. I admire the purity of your soul !

    Well, I think you should then limit the development of your games to Linux platforms instead of promoting the Dr-Evil-Microsoft Evil-OS Windows by releasing videogames on it. You're in business with a "world controller", which is not acceptable. Repent ! Now !

  • DUFFKING #81 5 years ago

    Smelly: I tried using the keyboard and found it awkward as hell. Maybe not shite I guess, and analogue control might help, but I find the track editor so much smoother and easier to use with my mouse and keyboard.

    Especially in the mediatracker, although that could be because keyboard control is impossible in there.
    Edited by 1 at 27/02/07 @ 16:32

  • smelly #82 5 years ago

    @botherer : Well uninstall it then?

    As I said, EVERY report i've read about it breaking systems can be fixed by uninstalling it by following some simple instructions (easily found with a google search).

    Therefore there is no reason NOT to download and play a game. If it breaks your pc, easily fixed, if it doesnt.. no problems.

    I just fail to see why people will say "well it has xyz protection therefor i'm not buying it.. actually i may pirate it to teach them a lesson". That's bullshit and you know it.. That's just looking for an excuse to pirate it instead of buying it.

  • Hypocee #83 5 years ago

    @Hylis: Heh, thanks for the praise of my knowledge but I just quote experts I trust.

    Maybe there's Ring0 junk, maybe there's not. You've made misleading and outright false claims before in various places. Fortunately, I don't have to care about the specific mechanisms; the end result is that AG had the same old Starforce symptoms with this exact game.

    I agree with you about software patents and frankly many hardware patents today. As noted at AG, though, it's hypocritical to slag off console patents and DRM while distributing your game with...hidden, patented DRM. Otherwise, I'm not about to call you names for using Starforce. It's your product. All I'll say is that with regard to my money and my friends' you're making a mistake. Disc-based authentication is intended to protect single-player stuff; with TM:U's shift toward community gameplay, you have the opportunity to move to the GalCiv/Naked War/MMO model of centrally managed serials. Convenience for players + security and an expanded market for you = win/win in my eyes.

    You made a great game to which you've done great updates. I look forward to buying it when you put it on the "non-evil" console or start using a 21st century protection system on PC.

    Smelly, not one person here has claimed that they were going to pirate it. Not one, and certainly not for that ridiculous reason. I think you're trying to argue with a group that's not here.

  • djclue #84 5 years ago

    your experts are AG... Haha, they even said that they are not sure and will look what happened exactly. I think Hylis is at a better place to tell you if yes or not there is ring0 software in the box. You seem then to speak of things you don't understand.

  • Hypocee #85 5 years ago

    I wasn't clear enough about that. AG and Vederman are examples of Starforce trouble, not experts on OS mechanics and security. Two different groups.

  • captain_cupcake #86 5 years ago

    Therefore there is no reason NOT to download and play a game. If it breaks your pc, easily fixed, if it doesnt.. no problems.

    Thank god someone is in touch with the market :p

  • Smugglarn #87 5 years ago

    Can u still not run a proper race in mp?

  • DUFFKING #88 5 years ago

    Erm, you've always been able to AFAIK. Rounds mode.

  • asphaltcowboy #89 5 years ago

    official forum thread for anyone that's interested (since everyone seems so uninterested)

  • urban #90 5 years ago

    bought this yesterday. rather good.