Toshiba denies HD-DVD cancellation Comments by Robert Purchese

Proof that the internet tech community is full of slathering hysterical fanboys?

Yes.

"Although Toshiba is currently assessing its business strategies, no decision has been made at this moment"

So Toshiba is thinking about it then. Toshiba's PR people seem to get worse and worse, if your not going to flat out deny it, theres obviously some ring of truth to it

Dragging out the decsion is costing Toshiba a lot of money.

Ultimatelly as many "experts" have said this weekend, they would be better pulling out of the war asap, and refocusing on their succesful divisions.

Toshiba's PR seems to be made by people not actually involved by the company these days.

Quit with the speculation, you think a company will invest so much in this format then drop it? China have adopted the tech for their HD format and it's cheaper. It'll probably be around for a while for some other reason outside of the movie biz.

squarejawhero, so you think toshiba won't cancel hd-dvd production? Who's the hysterical fanboy then... they have no business with hd-dvd anymore, of course they'll cancel it. They want to put a some kind of positive spin on it though, maybe make some kind of a deal with Sony and blu-ray to try to save face, hell, a hd-dvd player trade-in's or something. There's a lot of money to be made sometime in the future from high def movies, Toshiba certainly wants a share of that, even if it's not their own technology anymore.

"and many observers" Ah, care to name some? Apart from Michael bay.

In coporate speech, this statement is as far from a denial as you can get. Translation: "Yes, it's true. But we don't want you to know until our stock is cleared".

Toshiba would not admit to "currently assessing its business strategies" if they where changes to continue with their HD-DVD business. It's a signal to their partners to prepare for the end.

I'm not being a hysterical fanboy. It makes no sense to drop the technology completely after investing so much. In fact, I couldn't give a shit about which HD format wins, I find it amusing when people leap to the sides of big multinationals through misguided loyaltys. The rumour this weekend proves just that.

Not much of a denial, more they aren't ready to formally announce it yet.

I bet Sony are pinching themselves right about now.

If they loose money with every piece of hardware they sell without a change of a return of investment in the future, it makes perfect sense to quit now. If Toshiba wants to stay in the HD hardware business, they better start making BluRay players soon.

doesnt matter if they drop it or not hd-dvd is a sinking ship.

Toshiba need to drop it now and then start producing Blu-Ray players to make some money....

:D

My 360 HD-DVD player looks more and more like a brick every day...

Its doesnt make business sense to decide something while you can still get income from the technology, Betamax never got withdrawn its just get a new niche and thus investment made can be recouped in the media market instead of home.

HD DVD is a simpler technology set up compared to BR, and I dont think it would cost that much to get back to DVD burning, so it more to do with the right business timing of how much can be recouped against what is required for investments.

Those who delighted in the 'dying' of the HD DVD had to be just a rabid fantics! We did not do the same for when CRT TV is being made redundant by the flat screen technology? No need to also invest personal loyalties and emotional investment!

Still to see if BR will completely overtake DVD market when we now have more various means of watching films? PVR, Downloading movies, Sky/Cable multi movies channels and still ever so strong DVD market? Last time round DVD only really had to cope with VHS and Sky as serious competitiors for watching movies.

@GamesConnoisseur

I think people are just happy to see the back of the format war, they don't really do any good.

GamesConnoisseur: this "format war" has been a time of insecurity and confusion for consumers. That is why people seem happy now: one format - Blu-ray - is now concidered a safe purchase, and so the HD video market is opened up for other markets than the early adopters. Certainly, a lot more movies must be made available, and the prices must be cut significantly, but the "format war" is over and that is a good thing. In this kind of format competitions, there's really only room for one: There was only one DVD, and before that only one VHS - competitiors had to bite the dust for the market to thrive. Same with CD versus vinyl, sadly.

It is, however, not the same with Xbox vs. PS3; there seems to be plenty room for both platforms.

HD DVD's been sinking for over a year now. It is not neccesatily fanboyism to be glad that the format soon will be out of it's misery, and so that the industry can move forward.

Standard DVD will most likely be around for a long long time, as it's plenty good enough for most uses and of course has a huge back catalogue.

They should get HD-DVDs off the shelves quickly so people are not duped into buying a loosing format.

I don't get it: Yesterday there was an article on a German (no translation, sorry) tech site, where Toshiba guys confirmed the move.

Anyone calling squarejawhero a hysterical fanboy, is obviously a hysterical fanboy.

Just to make it clear to those who think Toshiba keeping it going to make money is a good thing. Toshiba shares have gone up based on the speculation they are to drop the format. Dropping it quick and getting out is the best way to move on financially.

It's not about loyalty, people just want the stupid format war to be over and done with. So they can buy a player and not worry about wether it'll be obsolete next year.

Xerx3s - I've seen this reported from sources as diverse as Engadget to the Melbourne Age newspaper in Aus. Problem for Tosh now is that the funeral has been announced to the general populace. It's become a defacto fact. You'd have to be some sort of idiot/optimist (delete as applicable) to buy a HDDVD player now. Better they get it over with.

Well I really hope Toshiba do kill off HD-DVD, simply because I want to buy Transformers, King Kong and Heroes on BD sooner rather than later, thanks. :D

I'm not pro-Sony or anything, I just happened to buy BD movies because I bought a PS3 which came with a convenient player built in thus there was no need or desire for me to buy movies on a third format knowing full well that one would likely fail. I always suspected it would be HD-DVD though, mainly because it's always had less support from the movie studios, it's poorly advertised in comparison to BD and Microsoft just didn't seem interested in backing it either (seems it was a wise decision on reflection).

Yes, if it's making losses and has no chance of future profitability then they should abandon it as soon as possible. Saying they should keep going because they've invested so much in it already is what's known as the sunk-cost fallacy, aka "throwing good money after bad".

edit: Darren, yeah, I think MS cared more about prolonging the format war than who actually won it.

/dances on HDs grave

What do these news have to do with games?

"Although Toshiba is currently assessing its business strategies, no decision has been made at this moment"

Wouldn't you say "No, we aren't dropping the format. End of story."?

I doubt they're completely dropping the technology, but they're definitely out of the HD film market. Who the hell would buy an HD-DVD player after the recent news? I was, but certainly not now.

Let it die already, Toshiba....

This was always going to happen anyway. Sony's big gamble paid off nicely.

It's not the two differing formats that cause the so-called consumer confusion, it's the studios with their format preferences and defections.

If all were available on both (which will never happen thanks to Sony), all the consumer need consider is the format they wish to view HD films in: HD-DVD for 360, and blu-ray for PStriple.

Darren, your reasons for wanting HD-DVD to fail just so you can get a handful of movies are pretty pathetic and selfish.

Want them? Buy the HD-DVD add-on from Argos: £89.99.

Yeah, fuck you Darren.

lol.

Toshiba climbs on 'HD DVD exit'

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/7250...

If investors are causing the share price rise to rise on this news, it's a little unfair to presume it's just hysterical fanboy nonsense.

I think we all know that Toshiba will withdraw HD-DVD, whether it's announced this week or next month. It was always going to happen because they had nothing to compete against the PS3 and, unlike Sony, didn't own their own movie studios to push the format.

It's funny thinking back just a few months when people were dissing the PS3 so much, saying it was too expensive, had no good games, could never compete with the 360 and what a disaster Blu-Ray was for it. This further proves what a bunch of short-sighted planks this people were now that the PS3's price is comparable to the 360's, has top quality titles and the best line-up this year, beat the 360 in every territory last month and now has the winning HD format to further push sales.

"It makes no sense to drop the technology completely after investing so much."

Not really. Any competent company will be capable of making decisions that cut their losses. If maintaining the technology makes no profit in return, it would pointless doing so.

"Its doesnt make business sense to decide something while you can still get income from the technology, Betamax never got withdrawn its just get a new niche and thus investment made can be recouped in the media market instead of home. "

The whole betamax/VHS thing took a lot longer to work itself out. Since a few big film players pulled out of HD-DVD things have escalated really quickly. That didn't happen with betamax as many films were released on both formats. A smaller customer base is ont thing, a smaller range of content to sell to a small customer base is something else.

Also, your suggestion that it makes no business sense to drop out whilst you can still get income is a little over simplified. It makes total sense if your income is creating profit, but if your income does not offset your costs, it makes no sense to continue making that loss.


Toshiba have plenty of very successful product lines and technologies, and have a good record of investing in successful new tech. If they find themselves in a situation that does not follow that pattern, I wouldn't be at all surprised if they withdraw and put future investment to better use.

@BBIAJ

"Darren, your reasons for wanting HD-DVD to fail just so you can get a handful of movies are pretty pathetic and selfish."

What other reasons are there exactly? A customer wanting content for their chosen format is perfectly normal.

What motives would you suggest? Toshiba isn't staffed by starving orphans you know. They don't give 10% of all HD-DVD profits to wildlife charities.

Is some bonkers technolove fanboy reason for wanting a company to succeed actually any better?

@SeesThroughAll
"What do these news have to do with games?"

PS3 sales will rise on the back of this - simple. Ok maybe they won't all be rushing out to buy games but some of them will.

@ squarejawhero:

Misguided loyalties or not, it does matter if one format wins over the other for those early adopters who've gone out and bought either stand-alone player. I think they'd be quite disappointed, to say the least, if their investment became obsolete within a year of purchase or so.

Retailers of today are 'ruthless' in their support and loyalty for any product and understandably would want to be on the 'winning' side in any feud.

One thing that puzzles me about Toshiba is their arrogance and inability to appreciate that thanks to Sony's trojan horse for the proliferation of Blu-Ray, namely the PS3, how on earth did they EVER think they could compete with that by selling HD-DVD stand-alone players at much higher prices and much lower volumes? I would've thought they learned their lesson with DVD, when Sony did the same damn thing then, that time with the PS2.

I sincerely hope that if there is such a disagreement in the industry next time (if storage mediums are still important at that time) that it gets sorted out, well before it reaches the consumer and well before anything becomes a product. I think an industry body should be created to ensure that no such future conflicts overspill into retail.

In the case of the VHS/Betamax scenario people keep comparing this to, let it be known that Betamax kept on going for 20+ years after it lost the home consumer war. Beta was used in many professional video editting and production companies.

So it seems Blu-Ray is the only little victory for the Sonybots so far?(not going to be as big as DVD for a long long time so the importance to the console wars? marginal) Oh one month in the US with marginally better PS3 sales on the back of 360 shortages? Great, its over Sony wins, Nintendo and MS tried but it was hopeless against the invincible Sony Playstation brand who can triumph with even the shitest cards of the lot on the table. The Sonybots won their obsessive trolling worked as planned.

Ive said it before and I'll say it again if Sony dont turn it around this year(instead of just telling us they will sell the most consoles ever this year, which some fanboys take as gospel truth "because Sony never lie") then you Sonybots should get used to a third place console but atleast you will have pleanty of films to watch on it. Best 2008 lineup you say? If you beleive that you have shite taste in games IMO.

HD-DVD lost the war the day I bought a HD-DVD player...

DrDamn:

@SeesThroughAll
"What do these news have to do with games?"

PS3 sales will rise on the back of this - simple. Ok maybe they won't all be rushing out to buy games but some of them will.
ignore poster
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Exactly. The HD format "war" is over, and Sony is the winner. The PS3 was (and is) Sony's most important weapon, and now that Blu-Ray is victorious, the console may be perceived as offerering very good value, where it was previously though too expensive. That Blu-ray drive is no longer useless, tacked on to further a tactical corporate goal, but something that may actually be put to good use - it is now the High Definition Media Format.

This gives the Sony folks conciderable leverage against Microsoft. The Xbox may get a blu-ray peripheral, MS has said it isn't ruling that at out at all. But more importantly, Blu-Ray drives will seep into PC's in general, meaning that Windows (and Mac) will adop it. In short, Blu-Ray is a gold mine for Sony, and will remain so for decades.

In short, PlayStation 3 is fast becoming a good-value, future-proof console with mass market appeal. Sony's big gamble paid off. This does not mean that it will sell 120 million, like the PS2, but I can almost hear the sales pitch already, when an average joe consumer in the AV shop tries to decide between what media player to go with the huge new HD TV he's already decided on: "Well, the Xbox 360 is certainly a great gaming machine, lots and lots of good games for it if thats what you're primarily interested in. Then you've got the PS3, about the same price and also very good for games, but with a blu-ray player, web browser and built-in wireless network, and about half the price of a stand-alone blu-ray player."

Yup - expecting PS3 sales to grow further when Toshiba eventually confirms this. Not because most end users really care, or because anybody really needs HD movies, but because the marketing will be a lot more efficient now: less insecurities, clearer selling points, way less perceived risk on purchase. Plus brand recognition, of course, "Playstation" is a stronger brand than "Xbox", and the Sony brand is no slouch either. I don't think average consumers have registered the vibe on Xbox unreliability (RROD), but stores certainly have, and a return rate of 30 to 15 percent just make the PS3 a much safer reccomendation for them. They get happier customers and less hassle when they sell products that only break 3 % of the time. So this news item has a lot to do with games.

Fanboyism? Not really, but I am sure it will be taken as such.

@BBIAJ - Oh dear, sounds like someone who's bitter about having bought themselves an HD-DVD add-on at Christrmas to me! Ah well, never mind, eh? You'll be able to buy BD movies when Microsoft release the BD add-on for the 360 or you buy yourself a PS3 later on this year because you know you want to really... ;) LOL

I'm certainly not stupid enough to rush out and buy an HD-DVD player now (no thanks to buying that hideous add-on for the 360 though) when there's hardly any movies I want on the format? LOL

Sorry but the imminent demise of HD-DVD has nothing to do with me and I'm perfectly happy with buying all my movies on DVD and BD for now, thanks. :P

Darren .. you're seeming to revel in any bit of news that might annoy the 360 fans. why on earth you stick with OXM i'll never understand really.

You're multi format.. why get involved in the wind ups and fights? i'd thought better of you really.

Olemak it does sound wishfull thinking to me(it is you have to admit) but its a help for Sony atleast. As I say the movie format wont be as big a help as last time(DVD was vastly different to VHS, DVD to Blu-Ray offers less selling points, theres a market for the HD scene but the average joe will take alot more convicing) and you've got to be joking surely; PS3 half the price of a (better quality most likley) stand alone player? I dont think so, not even Sony's own players.

So while the PS3 was an important weapon to the format war, the Blu-Ray format wont be anywhere near as important for the console war(or DVD was for PS2), MS' video market place could aslo be a usefull tool not to mention a profitable venture for MS here if they improve on it enough and theres also the fact that MS has always said they could offer a Blu-Ray add-on.

Darren you do have some strong Sony bias vibes at times, I noticed that you got pretty deffensive concerning the console sales.

Playstation 3, to me, looks a lot more attractive now, then it did before. Unless prices of BD players seriously drop this year, I'll buy one sooner or later. Its game exclusives are just a sweet bonus:)

@Calgon
I agree that it's not as big a selling point as DVD was for the PS2 , the market is not there for a hi-def disc player yet. Too much outlay for not enough perceptable difference. Clarity in the choice for formats is only going to help in this though. There are a couple of important points in amongst that generalisation though.

1) It is a nice to have and people looking at next gen consoles will have to factor in the Hi-Def TV required for games. Blu-ray will help justify that purchase too - regardless of how much they end up using it.

2) The PS3 is actually a very competent and flexible Blu-ray player and in terms of quality stacks up well agains stand alone players. That complex cell processor which devs have a lot of trouble getting the most of in games is very good at decoding streams of data funnily enough. The PS2 was quite frankly a bit shite as a DVD player.

I think there's little doubt that Blu-Ray will be less important to consumers in the next 1-2 years than DVD was at the time of the PS2's launch as there's not so much motivation to migrate. Unless you have a big HD TV, Blu-Ray looks the same as DVD. DVD was also very enticing last time because it offered superior picture quality for everyone, was easier to store and meant no more rewinding.

But the PS3 will still receive a push from Blu-Ray and Olemak's comments are right on the mark.

i for one am glad this so called war is drawing to an end, having two different formats does neither the consumer nor the ce/film companies any good. it is different with gaming, there have always been rival formats and generally people are happy with that but no one is going to understand that they need x format to watch this film and y format to see that film, especially when you can get see any film on dvd already.

Blu ray in ps3 is possibly the main reason i waited for sonys console, imo it was always the much better bet to win through when it was inherent in a brand as massive as playstation, even though ps3's not done as well as some expected it is gathering momentum and this can only help its cause. some people mock the fact that many ps3's are sold as purley blu ray players but as far as sony are concerned its still another sale and they will make money off the films if not the games.

another point, dvd does not look anywhere near as good as blu ray, although it does get more impressive as screen size increases, but that is exactly what is selling now, large screen hd tv's not 28" crt's! i will now look forward to seeing all films on blu ray as soon as universal and paramount make the inevitable switch, as well as enjoying games for years to come.

@Calgon - That's only because I believe the PS3 will sell well based on the history of the PSone and PS2 and for no other reason; it's nothing to do with being pro-Sony. When I owned the original Xbox, I was often accused of being anti-Sony by certain people on the OXM forum because I stated it was my preferred gaming platform so I guess I can't win really! LOL

If you're a multiformat gamer like me then it's inevitable that you'll show favouritism toward one format but that's actually still the 360 as it's still the platform I buy most games for and probably will be for the duration of this generation. However, I am hopefully that PS3 will eventually deliver more of the kinds of games that I like (RPGs, action/adventures) as opposed to the online shooters that dominate the Xbox 360 (which really don't interest me at all). I mean the Xbox 360 is a very "safe" console, there's nothing as ambitious as LittleBigPlanet or Home on the way so I guess I'm just more thrilled about the PS3's potential really and a little bored of the 360's games. Again, it's not bias, it's just that the PS3 is still the newer and more exciting console for me at the moment. When you've been playing games for as long as I have - 28 years - then you start to crave unique, fresh experiences (which is actually one of the reasons I bought the Wii).