Thompson lobbies Bill Gates

By Tom Bramwell Published 4 January, 2007

To avoid sales of GTA to minors.

US lawyer Jack Thompson wants Bill Gates to take a personal role in shutting down sales of Grand Theft Auto IV later this year.

Jack's concern, as usual, is that a violent game is very likely going to end up being sold to minors - something that he claims a December report from the Interfaith Centre of Corporate Responsibility backs him up on.

Targeting Gates, head of Microsoft, whose Xbox 360 format will enjoy day-one support from the GTA series for the first time this year, Jack says, "please have your lawyers contact me in order that such sales will be prevented".

He's intent upon avoiding sales of the game to minors, apparently, perhaps best illustrated by the section of his new email where he literally says that he's intent upon avoiding sales of the game to minors: "I and others will endeavour to stop Microsoft from participating in any fashion, directly or indirectly, in such sales to minors," he says, illustratively.

The annoying thing is, his position this time is less ludicrous than the one he adopted with Canis Canem Edit - a game he tried and failed to get banned on account of content he claimed existed without ever having played it - and he hasn't pulled out the "murder simulator" nonsense yet, so we're less inclined to pillory him for sport.

We reckon his hair's still fair game though, so don't hold back.

Picture of Tom.

About Tom Bramwell

Tom is Operations director of Eurogamer Network and Editor-at-Large of Eurogamer.net. He joined the company in February 2000. Follow him on Twitter.

Read more articles from Tom by visiting the Tom Bramwell archive page.

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Comments (44) Latest comment 5 years ago

Comments for this article are now closed, but please feel free to continue chatting on the forum!

  • Xerx3s #1 5 years ago

    Yeh, after all the trouble ms went through to get a simultaneous release, billy boy will let it go. Sorry but he didn't become filthy rich by passing up opportunities.

  • L42yB #2 5 years ago

    U got no chance JT... Give it up!

  • CivilD #3 5 years ago

    JT's hair really is quite ridiculous.

  • asphaltcowboy #4 5 years ago

    What a legend ;]

  • Zomoniac #5 5 years ago

    Legend indeed. Come on MS, ban this game you're not publishing and have no control over that will make you enough money to pay your own bail when you "accidentally" fall on top of JT with a chainsaw.

  • DDevil #6 5 years ago

    He is right though, kids shouldn't be buying these games. Parents need to be educated to stop this kind of thing.

  • Rayn #7 5 years ago

    For once he didn't go over the top. I do agree with anyone who says that the GTA games shouldn't be played by minors. Retailers should take the rating seriously when selling their games. More (most?) parents needs to wake up as well.

  • MrWonderstuff #8 5 years ago

    This is the sole responsibility is to parents and retailers. If JT had an ounce of sense, which he consistently proves he doesnt, then he would be aware of this and not trying to force MS to not sell a game.

  • Eraser #9 5 years ago

    It's not MS' responsibility nor that of Take 2 or Rockstar.
    These products weren't made for minors so they shouldn't be sold to minors. We're not sueing porn companies over porn videos are we? A game that's clearly labelled as 18+ simply shouldn't be sold to minors, and it's up to the retailers and parents to enforce that rating.

    edit:
    well bugger, seems I'm 8 seconds overdue with this statement :-J
    Edited by Eraser at 04/01/07 @ 09:54

  • Steroyd #10 5 years ago

    He is right though, kids shouldn't be buying these games. Parents need to be educated to stop this kind of thing.

    Parents should also be educated that all next gen consoles can shut out games if they're a certain age rating ala PSP.

    Although teaching a parent to organise the settings on their childs console is a feat in itself.

    If only JT knew about the consoles instead of mouthing off to Bill gates.

    /shakes head.
    Edited by Steroyd at 04/01/07 @ 09:58

  • polar #11 5 years ago

    Perhaps J.T. should target the retailers and and neglectorino parents who buy M or X rated games for the little kiddies.

  • jack_klugman #12 5 years ago

    Is there no BBFC-style Federal classification for video games? If not then Thompson's comments are entirely justified. If a minor can get their hands on GTA relatively easily then somebody, not developers, is being neglegent.

  • Super_Zee #13 5 years ago

    JT doesn't help with his bulldozer approach, but these games really shouldn't be sold to kids. It's got to be the responsibility of the parents though, not MS. I was boiling angry this week when I overheard an 11-year-old telling his nan that "mum said it would be fine to buy F.E.A.R. or Hitman: Blood Money as long as dad doesn't find out".

    FFS

  • kangarootoo #14 5 years ago

    Has JT actually asked that the game be banned from sale? I don't see anything in the article saying that. He seems, in this case, to be suggesting that steps be taken to avoid selling the game to kids.

    Painful as it is to agree with the muppet, I do. Its all very well saying that its a parent's responsibility rather than law, to control what their child is exposed to, but parents consistently fail that responsibility so that argument doesn't carry much sway with me. In general We complain of a nanny state, but then take little action ourselves to make sure things don't turn to shit. A rock and a hard place indeed.

    If JT is asking for sales of the game to be banned outright, then he is a fool as usual. But if he is trying to get, for example, advertising that is clearly targetted at kids stopped. Well, who can really argue with that?

    You could perhaps argue that age restrictions shouldn't exist at all, but that is a different issue.

  • TheSaint #15 5 years ago

    When I used to work in retail while at uni I witnessed parents buying GTA games for children despite the massive 18 sticker and warnings from staff. The response of "it's only a game" should be videoed at point of purchase so that when the inevitable letter is sent to the daily mail the shop can cover themselves.

  • Rambaldi #16 5 years ago

    Did Thompson ever think that the underhand behaviour of lawyers and politicians might be more of an undermining factor in young people's view of the world?

  • Xerx3s #17 5 years ago

    He is right though, kids shouldn't be buying these games. Parents need to be educated to stop this kind of thing.

    No, he's not. He says children but what he means is ban this sick filth! The only way that children won't play these games is when A) Parents start to take responsibility (when hell freezes over?) and prevent their children to play crap like gta or B) when the game is banned.

    Iow, he is now using children (again) to say what adults should and should not play. The children thing is just another smoke screen.

  • alpha-0ne #18 5 years ago

    Letter from Bill gates to jack..

    "Dear jack,

    Switch on parential controls on your childs 360 then whatever they do (even if they manage to buy it) they wont be able to run games above their age the the console."

  • skillian #19 5 years ago

    Rather than jumping on individual games, JT should focus his efforts on getting the games industry in the US to adopt a proper ratings system like movies.

    That's actually a worthwhile cause, but he does himself no favours by only popping up when another Rockstar game is due to be released.

  • dr_faulk #20 5 years ago

    Jack has a point (moot as it is): Get kids away for violent games. THing is, the guy is so dickish about it and doesn't realise that he needs to be biting the ankles of neglegent parents, not game makers.

    *edit* coorect "moot" (was "mute";) =P
    Edited by dr_faulk at 04/01/07 @ 11:03

  • bdc #21 5 years ago

    Uh, doesn't Bill Gates -want- GTAIV to actually sell, to help his console business? Bill Thompson clearly isn't thinking, but has he ever?

  • jackthompson #22 5 years ago

    I appreciate the comments of those who don't get my point as well as those who do. Here's my point, again, which 95% of the American people agree with:

    In the US, there is absolutely NO restriction on the sale of Mature-rated games to anyone under 17. None. That is the opposite of the system in the UK, Canada, Australia, Germany, Spain, Brazil, New Zealand, and even now Japan.

    In the US, the game gets a Mature rating, and then the developers and the game console manufacturers (Sony and Microsoft), not the retailers, marketing the dickens out of the game to kids. You've seen the magazine ads. Take-Two even went so far over the holiday season to run ads on the sides of buses and rail transport in major American cities for their GTA PSP game. This violated a specific promise made to Congress not to run ads for Mature games in venues in which kids would see them. Take-Two's ads were pulled from these vehicles, and they had been caught red-handed creating a demand for a product in an age group that they PROMISED they would not target.

    So, what we have in the US is a completely schizoid approach in which developers and retailers and game console manufacturers say (wink, wink) we only want adults buying mature games, but then all of these commercial interests swoop in and strike down laws that attempt to make sure that a parent makes the purchase. If some parent wants to buy the game and THEN give it to his/her kids, then fine. But what is happening is that there are direct sales to kids with no parent in the loop. This is wrong. And the industry knows it is wrong.

    In fact the Federal Trade Commission has recently found that 40% of the time, the major retailers will sell any Mature game to any kid of any age. There's the problem, in one stat.

    I wrote Gates for a very good reason. He pulled the plug on Bully. I am not asking him to "ban" GTAIV. I am asking him to do what he can to stop its marketing and sales to minors. Microsoft can very easily do that by side agreements with retailers and by not buying ads that will be seen by a substantial number of kids, which create a demand for a product eveyone at least SAYS they should not have.

    If Gates does not do this, then I have some ways to make him do it. This is a David and Goliath thing, and you all know how the first one of those turned out. Cheers. Jack Thompson PS: Feliz Anno Nuevo from Miami

  • BraveArse #23 5 years ago

    Now here's the thing...

    Xbox 360 actually has very substantial inbuilt parental control features, if a child account ( easily set up by a parent) is under the age requirement of the content they are trying to access... it simply will not play.

    It really is in the parents hands here. As a parent of a 16 month old daughter, I totally agree that under aged kids should in no-way see adult content... whether that be film or game is irrelevant. But JT ( will the real Jack Thompson please stand up?) needs to understand the vital role that parents should always have in this situation.

    Allowing children to buy or play or watch adult content is negligent *parenting*. Stop allowing parents off the hook. Whether the law is back to front or not... surely if a parent sees their child with a mature content certed game or film, they should be taking action.

    (edited for interweb grammar errors)
    Edited by BraveArse at 04/01/07 @ 11:36

  • BraveArse #24 5 years ago

    In addition: I agree with EG here... JT's less bombastic approach is going to prove much more effective. It seems much more reasonable than the ridiculous "murder simulator" nonsense.
    Edited by BraveArse at 04/01/07 @ 11:40

  • L42yB #25 5 years ago

    Look... alpha-0ne already said it, but the 360 has very effective parental controls built in so JT has no grounds to say what he is saying. MS have already made a good effort in allowing parents to restrict the games their children play... so really it's down to parents now, isn't it? Why have a go at MS about this?

  • LPXO #26 5 years ago

    Fast food advertisments aimed at children in america are potentially (indirectly) killing millions of people in the long term.

  • Wite_Noiz #27 5 years ago

    I disagree with some of these statements; I think it is Take 2 and Rockstar's responsibility /as well as/ parents and retailers.
    These two companies develop and distribute it; they have a responsibility to accurately inform people what the game is about and contains.
    I'm not against either company nor GTA itself (though I don't play it), but they do have a responsibility in this.

    Parental controls and parent/retailer vigilence should be number 1.

    Saying that, I played Wolf3D, Doom and Duke3D as a young'un and I only rarely have the urge to kill martians, daemons and Nazis. Go figure.

  • glaeken #28 5 years ago

    So the US has no age ratings on games? If that is correct then it is something they would need to put in place before you could even think about taking negligent parents to task otherwise they can always claim ignorance as defense.

  • Dr.Mott #29 5 years ago

    I just don't see how restricting advertising to kids is going to work. GTA is one of the most popular games of under 18's, as long as they see a game box or even just know of it's existance, then they will want it.

    Oh, and BAN THIS SICK FILTH!!!

  • NthSimulachum #30 5 years ago

    Bah, I played doom back when I was seven, and I turned out alright....
    Mind you, imagining the trauma Gears would invoke on a seven year old mind...
    Still, the US needs a similar system to the UK for the rating of games.

  • Feanor #31 5 years ago

    "In the US, there is absolutely NO restriction on the sale of Mature-rated games to anyone under 17. None. That is the opposite of the system in the UK, Canada, Australia, Germany, Spain, Brazil, New Zealand, and even now Japan."

    Then why do I constantly hear employees in Best Buy, EB, Gamestop, etc. asking teens for ID when they go to buy an M-rated game? I'm sure they don't ask every time in every store, but it is store policy now, even though I think an 8 year old could walk into Best Buy and purchase an Unrated copy of Saw 2 on DVD since it is, of course, unrated.
    Edited by Feanor at 04/01/07 @ 13:43

  • Hunam85 #32 5 years ago

    If they found a way to sell violent games and ensure that children did not have access to them id be happy, least then all this nonsense could get behind us and the industry could make adult games without politicians being stupid.

  • Riggers #33 5 years ago

    "When I used to work in retail while at uni I witnessed parents buying GTA games for children despite the massive 18 sticker and warnings from staff."

    Same here, I remember warning parents about the content, to which some of them replied, "It's OK, he sees worse on TV", or even better, "He hears worse on the playground" - most of these kids weren't even out of primary school.

    Best one though was an eight year old, whose mother looked mortified when I told her it was an 18, and why.

    Mother to child: " You told me it was a racing game!"

    Child: "It is mom, it's got cars in it. Can I have it, pleeease?"

    Mother to child: "Yes. When you're eighteen."

    That boy gave me the a look that'd make Damien seem positively sweet...
    Edited by Riggers at 04/01/07 @ 14:59

  • kangarootoo #34 5 years ago

    Some interesting points being made here (for the most part).

    "Fast food advertisments aimed at children in america are potentially (indirectly) killing millions of people in the long term."

    Disney recently changed their policy on this particular issue. Over the next few years (when contracts expire) all food sold in Disney Land will meet certain nutritional standards and Disney franchises will no longer be connected with unhealthy food (such as McD happy meals).


    Lets look at smoking as a comparison. The advertising of tabacco products to minors is illegal in the UK. In fact tobacco advertising is becoming more and more regulated day by day. Does anyone have an issue with that? Probably not. This may not be a fair comparison to make of course, for one obvious reason.

    Anyway, I digress. The point isn't really whether or not games cause harm, but whether the sale of adult rated games to minors should be restricted (either by law, business agreement, or education of parents).
    Edited by kangarootoo at 04/01/07 @ 15:21

  • Drakron #35 5 years ago

    Actually skillian ... the ESRB is just like the movies rating, its industry self regulation.

    In europe we have PEGI that is the same, movies on the other hand always been issued rating by the government ...

    As for the retailers ... well there IS a censorship system in place in the USA were many of the stores policy (the major ones) is to NOT sell M rated games, of course were "The Singles 2" is not sold but "GTA:SA" is.

  • SonicBoom #36 5 years ago

    To be honest I really don't understand the endless criticism of Jack Thompson by the vast majority of people who play video games. Every time his name is mentioned (not specifically here, just in game magazines and websites in general) there seems to be a huge tirade of insults as if his sole mission is to annoy everyone and ruin their fun.

    In an interview with gamesTM a few months ago he said exactly the same thing he says every single time; that he isn't out to ban video games, he isn't even out to ban violent video games, he's simply trying to stop 18 rated games from being sold to people who are legally too young to play them, and believes that one major way of doing this is to stop advertising them heavily to people of that age bracket.

    It in no way affects me, nor any of my friends who like video games, the only people I can possibly see this affecting is schoolkids who want to play 18 rated games. Personally I agree with the guy. If he was out to ban games full stop, then obviously people would be within their rights to complain about him, and I'd join them. But he isn't.
    Edited by SonicBoom at 04/01/07 @ 19:37

  • bunnymc #37 5 years ago

    How come that in Serbia there is no rating system and kids dont fight or shoot each other because of games and movies. U see, if u buy your kid a GTA u should sit down and explain to him what is going on in the game and why?
    And one more thing, this poloticians and lawyers dont give a fuck about children, it is all about monney

  • HenryMancini #38 5 years ago

    @KangarooToo - "Its all very well saying that its a parent's responsibility rather than law, to control what their child is exposed to, but parents consistently fail that responsibility so that argument doesn't carry much sway with me. In general We complain of a nanny state, but then take little action ourselves to make sure things don't turn to shit."

    Games in the UK are legally rated by the BBFC. That'd be all of them that have a 15 or 18 rating in a circle on them (not the PEGI ratings, those are voluntary). It is ILLEGAL to supply these to someone under that age. The shop that does it can be fined, and should be. It is illegal to produce or distribute a game that contains material that means it should be rated by the BBFC, without a rating. The producer and the distributor face fines and jail time if they are caught. Take a gander at http://www.bbfc.org.uk for the lowdown.

    For those of you who don't know about the US game rating system - yes there is one, it is run by the ESRB, and you can read up on it at [link url=http://www.esrb.org
    ]http://www.esrb.org
    [/link]

    It is a voluntary code, just like the PEGI system. The code says that games should not be inappropriately marketed to people they're not meant for - so Mature or Teen games should not be marketed specifically at 5 year olds. I presume that Bill Gates or Reggie or whoevers in charge of SOA these days can point to that and say "sure, we comply. thanks Jack. bye"

  • kangarootoo #39 5 years ago

    @bunnymc

    "U see, if u buy your kid a GTA u should sit down and explain to him what is going on in the game and why?"

    I'm not sure that would work all the time. Sometimes a parent would be sat there with their kid saying "Here you can attack and kill a bunch of innocent bystander. Reason being, its quite funny to do so".

    I have no big issue with the GTA games, but lets be honest, some of the content doesn't have some hidden deeper meaning. Some of it is based on pure titilation at the freedom to do abhorent things.

  • warlockuk #40 5 years ago

    You know... instead of repeatedly singling individual games out as the spawn of satan's arse and doom for "our children", why doesn't he just lobby for the enforcement of age certificates on games. Then we get left alone, the content gets mostly left alone and the responsibility is pushed back to the parents and to the shopkeepers. Just like it is here in the UK.

    That and get a haircut.

  • Krun #41 5 years ago

    I think MS lawyers may well be better then Jack. But then i think my senile 90 year old grandmother has a better grasp of reality then Jack has.

  • fost@rd #42 5 years ago

    oh my god..... the more of this mr thomson the more i want to put him on the gallows.... if it was not for games i would probly be a drunk loser.

  • TonyCocaCola #43 5 years ago

    If it wernt for games i'd be really good at stuff

  • suj #44 5 years ago

    he should fuck off the bible bashing peen-arse