The PC Brigade

By Rob Fahey Published 15 February, 2008

GI.biz Editorial: CliffyB says PC gaming's in "disarray", but is it?

Published as part of our sister-site GamesIndustry.biz' widely-read weekly newsletter, the GamesIndustry.biz Editorial offers analysis of one of the issues weighing on the minds of the people at the top of the games business. It appears on Eurogamer after it goes out to GI.biz newsletter subscribers.

Epic Games' decision to focus on console platforms rather than the PC, as revealed this week by Gears of War creator Cliff Bleszinski, will come as a blow to hardcore PC gamers - but it's not exactly a surprising move.

Rather, it's merely confirmation of a shift in priorities at the developer that has been evident for several years, and as such it's important not to overstate the importance of the news when considering the future of the PC gaming market. Epic's transition to console development has been a lengthy process, fuelled in no small part by copious assistance and incentives from Microsoft and Sony - for whom having the firm's best-of-breed engine technology available to developers on their platforms is a vital step.

While Bleszinski's description of PC gaming as being in "disarray" no doubt hints at some part of the firm's decision to focus on consoles, this move is as much about business partnerships as it is about creative decisions. The PC's benefits as an anarchic, free access platform are balanced by the lack of a real champion for PC gaming.

Microsoft is the closest thing the market has, and its loyalties are sorely divided between PC and Xbox 360. Even when it does pay attention to the PC, the results aren't always positive; attempts to launch a Live Gold subscription gaming model on the PC platform have been met with what might charitably be called contempt from customers. Compared with consoles, which have a large, powerful company solely devoted to evangelising the platform - and willing to reach into deep pockets in order to keep games and technologies on that platform - the PC is an utterly un-incentivised market.

However, Bleszinski's outburst also reveals a little of the soul-searching which is going on at many developers about the future of the PC gaming market. For once, this isn't the cyclical question of whether consoles will kill the PC market - a question asked so often, and answered with such an emphatic negative, that it finally seems to have fallen out of the industry's discourse, and good riddance. Rather, it is a genuine desire, both on the creative and financial sides of the business, to understand just what shape PC gaming is going to take in the coming years.

For a long time, it was simple to categorise PC games as "hardcore", with console titles seen as more casual. It wasn't a division that was entirely accurate, but it was close enough to the mark to be useful - for a while, at least.

That's simply no longer the case. While the PC still plays host to some of the most hardcore gaming genres, such as massively multiplayer games, realistic flight simulators and real-time strategy titles, a huge new market of ultra-casual games has also opened up on the platform. Meanwhile, consoles have come to occupy the middle ground almost in its entirety - largely thanks to stealing many of the PC's best tricks, from online multiplayer and high definition graphics through to the most recent feature to cross the lines, user created content.

As a result, some genres have switched allegiances almost entirely. First-person shooters especially are no longer likely to lead development on PC and add console ports on as an afterthought. Franchises like Call of Duty treat both platforms equally; those like Halo and Gears of War have opted outright for the opposite approach. Long seen as a bastion of PC gaming due to the finely honed keyboard and mouse control system, first-person shooters - even online multiplayer first-person shooters - are now a console genre for what is almost certainly a majority of players.

It will not be the last genre to cross over. Real-time strategy gaming has proved very resistant, as it's very closely tied to mouse controls - but some developers are already experimenting with the potential for using motion sensitive controls to compensate for the lack of a mouse. Before that happens, though, we'll probably see some MMOs crossing the lines successfully. Mass storage devices, reliable voice chat and solid online services make this possible - and it's interesting to note an industry-wide move towards designing MMOs that could be amenable to joypad control, both among those which do have stated console plans (Funcom's Age of Conan) and among those which don't (NCsoft's Tabula Rasa).

Which leaves the PC...where, exactly? In disarray, as Bleszinski suggests?

On the contrary - it leaves the PC absolutely thriving, but perhaps not in a form that will please its more hardcore adherents down the years.

PCs, after all, have the biggest installed base, widest demographic of users and highest proportion of Internet-connected devices of any platform on earth - with the possible potential exception of mobile phones. The result is a vast and thriving casual gaming market, ranging from small, ad- or brand-supported browser-based games, right through to giant franchises like The Sims.

In addition, PCs are further down the line with digital distribution than any other platform, and the relatively low cost of entry (thanks to the ability to self-publish, and the fact that any PC has the innate ability to be a development tool) means that innovative ideas - both in game design and in business models - still find fertile soil on the PC platform.

The benefits of this can range from wonderful independent games, produced by teams for whom console development is simply prohibitively expensive, to experiments with business models and delivery systems that ultimately benefit the whole market. From Introversion's cult hits Darwinia and Defcon at one end of the spectrum, to Valve's high-budget episodic Half-Life 2 follow-ups and commendable policy of buying up the best mod-makers, the unique structure of the PC market has enabled companies and individuals to do things with gaming that simply couldn't happen elsewhere.

That's not about to change. Despite their newfound love for casual games, digital distribution and even user-created content - the main thrust of Sony's maligned, but actually perfectly reasonable, Game 3.0 patter - consoles remain a walled garden. Without a publisher, significant financial backing and thousands of pounds worth of development tools, you're not coming in. Even if you do get in, your audience is naturally restricted; the segment of the populace willing to spend hundreds of pounds on a gaming device is, after all, fairly specific.

I can't agree with Bleszinski, then, when he describes the market as being in "disarray". In transition, certainly - and the types of game which he has always worked on, the Unreal Tournaments and Gears of Wars of this world are definitely finding their homes on consoles rather than PCs now. However, if anything, it's our concept of what a "hardcore" game is that's in disarray right now, not the PC market - which continues to cater to a wide variety of different tastes, just not necessarily the same ones it catered to a few years ago.

Is Gears of War a hardcore game? Is Halo 3? What about World of Warcraft? Call of Duty 4? Surely their very popularity, and the breadth of their reach, disqualifies them from the "hardcore" tag - or are we now to describe every game whose primary audience is "Male 16-30", and whose primary topic isn't sports, as being hardcore? It's high time that we stopped lazily using the "hardcore" and "casual" labels, which ignore the true richness and diversity of the modern games market, and which are in part responsible for the negative perception of the PC's position.

The PC's appeal may be shifting, but it still extends from deep, involving massively multiplayer titles and intricate, complex simulations at one end of the market, via RTS titles and many RPGs in the middle ground, through to The Sims and a whole spectrum of casual titles at the far end. It's still a vital, creative and powerful platform on which to create entertainment experiences - and even if sales of boxed games aren't all that publishers would like, we have barely scratched the surface of other potential revenue streams, even when World of Warcraft's astonishing subscription income is considered.

Epic's shift away from the platform may not be what PC gamers want to hear, then - but it is part of a natural transition, rather than a nail in the coffin. Soul-searching over the future of the PC market will continue for a long time, but it doesn't have to be pessimistic - the shape of that future may be unclear, but its brightness seems assured.

For more views on the industry and to keep up to date with news relevant to the games business, read GamesIndustry.biz. You can sign up to the newsletter and receive the GamesIndustry.biz Editorial directly each Thursday afternoon.

Picture of Rob.

About Rob Fahey

Rob Fahey is a former editor of GamesIndustry.biz who spent several years living in Japan and probably still has a mint condition Dreamcast Samba de Amigo set.

Read more articles from Rob by visiting the Rob Fahey archive page.

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Comments (80) Latest comment 4 years ago

Comments threads automatically close after 30 days, but please feel free to continue chatting on the forum!

  • L0cky #1 4 years ago

    Sold Out.

  • Nylkran #2 4 years ago

    I couldnt possibly agree more, specially the last part about gamer labels.

    I prefer to think a Hardcore gamer is any gamer who plays and becomes particualrly good at that game/genre. While a casual gamer is one that simply plays a game to see whats fun.

    This potencially makes all gamers both casual and hardcore, a player who play an FPS like Crysis is hardcore for the FPS market but he is barely casual for the something like the Sims. But they are both certainly "hardcore" games since you have to play for hours to get anywhere in them.

    So to conclude hardcore/casual are gamer tags not genre tags, and we are all hardcore/casual in some form.

  • haowan #3 4 years ago

    I think the PC market is dead too - for the games he wants to make.

    It just means PC gamers have their heads screwed on :)

    Make good games for markets that actually exist, and you'll sell them to the right people.

    Oh, and CliffyB is an airheaded idiot. Giving him more column inches won't make him any less so.

  • L0cky #4 4 years ago

    'for the games he wants to make'

    That pretty much sums it up.

    Although to be fair, there is another large problem with the PC as a platform that wasn't discussed in the article: QA. Quality assurance on consoles is a big enough task as it is, on the PC it's a complete nightmare.

    You can say that the PC has by far the biggest demographic, but if your game has even the slightest hardware requirement then that demographic starts to fracture very quickly.

    Out of all the gazillions of people with a pc connected to the internet, how many of them can actually play Crysis or UT3 at a satisfactory level?

  • Nylkran #5 4 years ago

    Unless you haev a Super Computer I dont think you can play Crysis at a satisfactory level, I mean, bloody hell what do you mean those are minimun requirements, it is literally possible to send people to Mars on less hardware than that.

  • James173 #6 4 years ago

    What about the Rage engine? My (limited) understanding, and correct me if I'm wrong, is that the Rage engine will allow id to develop both console and PC games simultaneously, with little or no alteration required in each case.

    Now if that type of technology became the norm, surely whether devs consider consoles priority or PCs priority becomes irrelevant - presumably they'd just end up releasing for both, all the time (in order to maximise revenues).

    Edit: I guess this may come with one exception, which is where (as mentioned in the article) the console firms, wanting to protect their platform, provide artificial incentives for developers to release only on one platform. I suspect this would be met with some very negative feedback in the case above, given that the developer could just as easily release on all three, but that wouldn't necessarily prevent it happening.
    Edited by 1 at 15/02/08 @ 18:07

  • haowan #7 4 years ago

    "Out of all the gazillions of people with a pc connected to the internet, how many of them can actually play Crysis or UT3 at a satisfactory level?"

    Yep, and how many have an internet browser?

    But I guess he doesn't want to make fucking Cooking Mama, so perhaps he's just cutting himself off from that rich stream of potential revenue :)

    Still I guess it satisfies his inner Man to (edit) help (/edit) make these games.
    Edited by 1 at 15/02/08 @ 18:04

  • kgthatsme #8 4 years ago

    No mention of PC Piracy??

  • steviepunk #9 4 years ago

    I've never really cared for defining users as 'hardcore' or 'casual', however while the article does make valid points there are some points that were missed:

    A. Piracy, probably the biggest problem the PC has, which probably does come as a result of the open nature of PCs. No real solution to this other than to make good games that are worth buying! Copy Protection/DRM will always be beaten and without a tightly controlled system like the Xbox360 has to continually update to prevent it PC game makers just won't be able to stay ahead of the game - Steam could be the closest we have.

    B. Cliffy B is entirely correct, PC gaming IS in disarray. Even although PC gaming has so many plus points, the big problem is that there is no single driving factor. Other than Microsoft (as mentioned, have their own conflict if interest), with DirectX and 'Games for Windows', there is no one out there with enough influence to drive the development of PC games with any kind of purpose. Right now there are many companies developing PC gaming in their own way (whether hardware of software), however they are all either (at worst) going in separate directions or (at best) duplicating each others efforts


    However, we have this problem every time a new generation of consoles comes along. The consoles do so much for so little money compared to a PC, however after a few years the continued advancement of the PC components puts the consoles in the shade and PC development becomes higher profile again. The same thing will happen again, though it will probably take a little longer this time since Microsoft messed up with Direct X being tied to Vista - to many games won't jump to Vista from XP, so graphical progression has slowed down a lot in terms of visual features (raw processing still goes up though :) )

  • Chufty #10 4 years ago

    "Make good games for markets that actually exist, and you'll sell them to the right people."

    As long as it's for a console. If it's on the PC, people will just download it.

    A big part of the problem is nVidia with their TWIMTBP programme. The conflict of interest is obvious - nVidia want to sell graphics cards and aren't going to cough up millions to sponsor a game that runs nicely on a card 2 generations old. There are plenty of idiots who will buy £800 worth of graphics cards every 6 months, and this is driving up the average specs of new games while at the same time increasing demand (and therefore prices) for more powerful hardware. It's just another example of the "disarray" surrounding the PC gaming sector.

    I agree with CliffyBs sentiments, but it's a tragic loss for those of us for whom the entire notion of playing an FPS with a gamepad is incomprehensible. Hardcore or not, the nomenclature isn't important, the Unreal franchise is precisely what PC gaming used to be about and it's a sign of the times that it's likely to be coming to an end on the very platform that made it so successful.

  • Pablo2k5 #11 4 years ago

    This guy isn't making any sense. 1 million copies of Crysis sold even the Witcher sold 600k!

    Just because his consoley crap PC ports didn't sell no need to blame us PC gamers...

  • Whizzo #12 4 years ago

    "PC gamers didn't want our slightly tarted up Gears or yet another rehash of UT therefore it's in disarray and we're taking our ball home" sulked Cliff.

    If it were Gabe Newell saying something like this I think PC gamers would have cause for concern, CliffyB? No...

  • darc #13 4 years ago

    "PC gaming is dead" vs. "PC gaming is increasing comprised of PopCap games."

    You say tomayto I say tomahto. ;)

    One (of several) problems with PC gaming is that devs are handed this impossible task of delivering a game that is compatible with a vast and largely unknown array of hardware, firmware, operating systems, etc. And while they're trying to make sure their games more or less run on every possible permutation, they've also got to wow us by embracing the lastest and greatest graphics technology, such that they've never quite optimized the previous generation and we the consumer are never really getting the milage out of the crap we upgrade every year. Again, look at the way GC and PS2 titles matured in recent years and ask yourself whether your 8800GTX was really necessary. I'll bet the 6800 you bought 2 years ago was capable of much more then you'll ever see. Now it's just one more backwards-compatibilty headache for driver and applications developers. The superior but largely indeterminate computing power of your PC is its greatest weakness.

    Then again, shooters need mice. :)

    Edit: Just notice Chufty already said all of this, if slightly differently.
    Edited by 1 at 15/02/08 @ 18:57

  • Katsumoto #14 4 years ago

    AS much as that's all true - it's always been the case, even back in PC gamings "golden years" (i.e. the 1990s). Oh well, anyway, as has been said, just because Cliff smells of wee there's no need to panic! I'm looking forward to Clear Skies, Fallout 3, Far Cry 2 and Left 4 Dead immensely this year.

  • Ryuken #15 4 years ago

    "the big problem is that there is no single driving factor."

    Let's hope it stays that way, having no big company behind the platform is just a marketing problem, not a quality problem. There are PC devs and publishers enough that do have a decent QA. Also, I think there is no PC gamer in the world willing to pay a ridiculous extra cost for "licensing" for every retail version or who wants to sacrifice the choice he/she has in every aspect of PC gaming. We shouldn't be condemned to one trite Live online service or be obliged to pay absurd prices for extra mini-content or even older games we've already bought in the past.

    If anything, PC gaming keeps on being relatively sane when compared to consoles, even if you black out the whole overblown digital distribution thing (dd isn't a good trend, we want the good old cardboard boxes filled with hefty and exquisite manuals times back) and the lamentable "indie games are our last, best hope"-hype. It's just that console cycle again and certain devs loving the dumbing down thing that consoles usually allow them to do for most PC genres like FPS, RTS and the Western RPG.

    PC piracy is a problem but it has always been like that, I am sure there will be other ways in the future to protect games in a non-Starforce intrusive way.
    Edited by 1 at 15/02/08 @ 19:31

  • Turrican #16 4 years ago

    Personally, as long as the quality talent out there continues to ignore PCs wonderful roots (Space games, flight sims), leaving amateur outfits to supply half arsed offerings, PC gaming may well not be in disarray, but its also not a place I want to be.

    and no amount of MMOs, Java games and Indie or Console dumb down projects will bring that back.

  • sidiousno #17 4 years ago

    I prefer gaming on the PC. Some games are fit for consoles, no doubt, but FPS games and strategy games - well, I wouldn't want to play them any other way than on the PC. It's sad to see that more and more developers are getting doubtful to the PC as a gaming platform, but what can we do? People should stop downloading pirated games. We need to support those who entertain us! Personally I don't have a problem shelling out 50 bucks for a game that brings me countless hours of fun.

  • L0cky #18 4 years ago

    'dd isn't a good trend, we want the good old cardboard boxes filled with hefty and exquisite manuals times back'

    I paid £35 for the Orange Box, and what was inside? A sheet of paper and a disc.

    pff. Back in the day, reading the manual/story/intro was mandatory while building up your excitement for the game you were about to play.

    'The conflict of interest is obvious - nVidia want to sell graphics cards and aren't going to cough up millions to sponsor a game that runs nicely on a card 2 generations old.'

    I was going to bring this up too. I think Crysis is a good example of this; it works bloody well on an 8800GT on high settings and runs like crap on anything below that, even on low settings on high-range 7x or x18 cards. What was about to be released shortly after the game? Yup, the 8x series.

    There are people driving the platform, but they're not doing a very good job of it (except maybe Valve).

  • SixFootHalfling #19 4 years ago

    Compared with consoles, which have a large, powerful company solely devoted to evangelising the platform - and willing to reach into deep pockets in order to keep games and technologies on that platform - the PC is an utterly un-incentivised market.

    The company may be willing to reach into deep pockets, but they are guaranteed to try and get the money back somewhere. Yes the pc doesn't have one company running it, so excellent low budget games can be made, and sold for low prices. It also means older games still work, such as Total Annihilation which is over 10 years old but still plays perfectly. Try finding a ten year old console game and getting it to play on a new console, can't see a N64 game working on a Wii, without having to repurchase it through their shop.
    The PC has no need to try and keep technologies on it. Probably everything on a games console comes from a pc originally, so surely theirs the incentive to keep it on the platform it was designed for.

    "No mention of PC Piracy??"
    ever heard of chipped consoles??

    "PC gamers didn't want our slightly tarted up Gears..."
    I agree, I mean how old was the game when it came to pc? How many people had already bought it and didn't see the point in repaying for close enough exactly the same game? "oh its got 5 new levels that last 40 seconds each, I must pay another £40 for it"

    "dd isn't a good trend, we want the good old cardboard boxes filled with hefty and exquisite manuals times back"
    I actually first used dd 2 days ago because my local game shop didn't have CoH in, and I didn't want to wait for a product that could never come back in, or order it off the internet for triple the price on steam. 3 hours and 6Gb later I'm playing the game problem free, however I love having the box to show off, and be able to read the manuals first, just to get a feel of the game, when they've bothered with a manual, and don't have horrible box art anyway. Yes you Valve.

    Is PC gaming dying?
    No, just lazy devs can't get away with it anymore, and feel like crying all the time.
    Edited by 2 at 15/02/08 @ 20:38

  • frombrosis #20 4 years ago

    A very well written article Rob, well done. As for PC gaming, well, it'll always be there, perhaps shrinking slightly each year as the consoles get all the attention...

  • Bagpuss #21 4 years ago

    As a log term PC gamer i have to admit that i am tired of PC's being ass raped of all their best features.

    I mean....

    Online gaming it was THE reason to be a PC gamer until 3-4 years ago...not anymore.

    Hi-res graphics and textures that made the PSone,2 and Xbox games look like 16bit no hopers....not anymore.

    Games that had no chance of ever being playable on consoles with controllers..the FPS,RTS....not anymore

    Its sad, but inevetable when you look just how far console technology has come on in the last couple of years....

    And despite it all, i still dont actually WANT a console.




  • Nithron #22 4 years ago

    To be honest, and this isn't just me being bitter and jaded about their transition away from PC gaming - i'm bitter and jaded about everything, indescriminately, after all - I haven't been impressed by an Epic game since Unreal Tournament 1.

  • peppergomez #23 4 years ago

    i couldn't care what cliffy b thinks, since he makes games for adhd teenagers. no wonder he and epic prefer the twitchcentric console crowd

  • Skeletor #24 4 years ago

    CliffyB is talking about the US market...from a US perspective. What he also ignores is that the PC market is NOT as much hypebased as the console market currently is. Titles like Crysis won't start selling significantly less after a couple of months. Lots of big titles for the PC sell a lot over the years, just look at Blizzard's stuff. WOW will probably end up with a longer life cycle than any of the current consoles. Epic's games don't sell on the PC because quite frankly most people have enough of the same ol stuff dressed in prettier clothes.

  • space_ace #25 4 years ago

    an epic argument...

  • john_silence #26 4 years ago

    +1 Ryuken, great comments.

    Actually an aspect of things is that Epic has started making pure console games. The PC is slowly evolving past two defining characteristics of Epic's latest products: shallow stories (GoW) and shallow gameplay (UT3). Consoles are engulfing the FPS genre, but they keep lagging behind, as if they were stuck with FPS 1.0 while while PC gamers keep playing the really exciting and new stuff, the FPS 2.0.
    Although Bioshock was on a console, and Crysis has a pretty cliché story. I still do agree with myself though. Bioshock had a great story but slightly dumb gameplay, and Crysis had a cliché story but technically and gameplay-wise it ushered in a generation beyond that of current consoles.
    Also, apart from FPS's, Sins of a Solar Empire is not coming to a console anytime soon, and The Witcher or Vampire: Bloodlines are only on the PC.

  • theleif #27 4 years ago

    Actually, one of the things hurting the PC gaming market the most is the ATI - NVIDIA race. I mean, just look at the Crossfire/SLI technology? They market it as something every gamer really should have to be a true gamer. What happens? The normal gamer takes a look at it and concludes that they would never spend that kind of money just to play a game and go and by a console instead.
    Then we have the AMD/Intel and ATI/NVIDIA specific technologies. Why? Please try to come up with ONE evolving platform. Ever hear about cooperation? Why not try to get an open source unified structure for your drivers that all tech companies can adhere to?? Instead of trying to invent patented specific technologies?

    Co-op WTF

    PS: Didn't know what FTW stood for until yesterday. Unfortunately reality rarely beets you imagination. So i WILL keep pretending it stands for Fuck The What?

    Cheers

  • Dynamize #28 4 years ago

    I'm intrigued by the idea that a platform positively NEEDS some sort of vague "champion/middleman" to...what? Publicise it, or just charge developers licencing fees and maintain authoritarian control? Run the project as a loss leader and haemorrhage money for "as long as it takes"?

    The business practices of the console players (bar Nintendo) have been pretty crazy over the past 5 years or so; more than once there've been questions raised over whether Microsoft, Sony or Nintendo would go the way of Sega and pull out of the console market, as their finances ricochet around. All the while gambling on that next cache of titles being a big commercial success to recoup money. All the while dealing with angry customers being faced with hardware that just up and breaks, or an initial price point that was almost universally derided. Lest we forget 1983.

    I think people are putting too much weight behind one FPS developer withdrawing, to some extent, because their rather archaic product didn't gel with the PC demographic. I don't think that's indicative of a paradigm shift in the PC world.

    We've got an array of upcoming point'n'click adventures, a load of RPGs in development using both proprietary engines and the powerful modding tools that are routinely made available to the public. We've just had a technologically bleeding-edge FPS in the shape of Crysis, and a while ago an immense RTS in Supreme Commander. We're also seeing Eastern Europe getting into gear and cranking out some varied PC titles. THQ's been conspicuous in its recent bag of high-quality PC exclusives. Certainly the release lists aren't as healthy as they were a decade ago, but I'm not sure if that points to a steady, inexorable bleed.

    I think as ever, and pretty much as the piece says, the PC market will continue to tick over quietly while consoles come and go, ironically steadily morphing into PCs themselves.

  • Verwandlung #29 4 years ago

    Syndicate Wars 2008?

  • Katsumoto #30 4 years ago

    One thing I will say is, if it wasn't for all these news articles popping up, i really wouldn't have known about this "pc gaming is dying lol" trend. We still get great games, year in, year out. 2007 was a BRILLIANT year for pc gaming. Is it possible we're all just getting caught up in a load of nothingness?

  • Krun #31 4 years ago

    Maybe the big market on the PC now is Mums and Dads who want a quiet few moments away from the TV and Kids with a game that won't stress them out. They don't upgrade the PC more often then once every 6 years or so. I think totally explains the reason The Sims and all those million management games still find an audience. The action based " l33t lol I fraged" you games that need the latest bleeding edge PC to run are moving to consoles more and more. Dad won't upgrade his PC just so Jonny can Frag his school mates, because Dad wants to read some emails, play Tetris and Moneytycoon4. So Jonny gets A Playbox480 and Dad gets his Pc to himself, well untill the Missus want to play The Sims or gossip on Facespace.

  • MGG #32 4 years ago

    @Wazzer: If you've never played PC games, how can you say you can't be bothered with that BS? I play PC games all the time, and I cant actually remember the last time I had to tweak any settings, nor upgrade my gfx card - which seeing as these days I only have a laptop, I couldn't do anyway. So I don't play Crysis - no big loss there I feel. I refuse to use Vista, and I've never been a sucker for a game with "Great GFX" but limited gameplay.....

    I have played games for years; indeed more years than possibly some of you have been alive. I have played on a huge range of platforms, computers, consoles, hand-helds, phones, even STB's. I currently own a pc, a 360, an xbox, a PS2, a PSP and a Wii. 90% of my gaming time is on the PC. Why? Too many console games are aimed, as someone has already said, at teenage boys with ADHD. Plus, I am married and trying to get time on the main tv to play said consoles is slightly limited. So off to the 3 year old gaming laptop, and I have a great time. I hardly buy any games from shops anymore, services like Steam are so much more convenient. In fact, I find them better than XBLA, but maybe thats just me. Also, with pc's, you are more in control - yes, they cost more to buy in the first place, but that's because their prices are not subsidised like all the consoles (barring the Wii). However, it means I get to chose where my money goes, and spend it on whats more important to me - whether thats gfx, sound, processing, memory, storage, etc etc.

    Not to mention the "adult games" (no, not Pr0n) that the pc platform offers that no console offers, such as online poker or other gambling services.

    PC's for Adults. Consoles for nannied Kids.

  • Genji #33 4 years ago

    "PC's for Adults. Consoles for nannied Kids."

    /slow clap

  • MGG #34 4 years ago

    No, in my experience it is the adults who do buy the games, its the kids who usually play console games that copy them. You do remember I come from the games industry itself, yeah? I *know* all about piracy and its effects TYVM - and to say its mainly a PC problem is rather naive, when you consider how many peoples first actions on buying a new console are to get it chipped. That is why I am all in favour of systems like Steam that help to cut down on piracy among pc games.

    @Genji - slow hand clap all you want - its true. If people like to play games in an entirely controlled HW and SW environment, and are then forced to pay the monopilised prices that go with that, then good luck to them. They then have less room to complain when all the games are "the same" or "just for kids/teens".

  • JDT_JDT #35 4 years ago

    In some way, I'd love abandon my pc, but I just don't think it's going to happen. I'd love for games like Starcraft 2 to be developed for, say, the ps3, and support keyboard and mouse. I might even have it next to my computer, plugged into a monitor and play it on a desk!

    Games like Civ4 and SC, which pretty much require a mouse would be great on consoles (I know there are attempts to bring Civ4, C&C etc to consoles, but if you have played PC RTS to any extent, they will drive you crazy).

    More likely this isn't going to happen, due to MS in particular seeming to hate the mouse, so I'm stuck on a pc.

    On the other hand, I have been surprised at how cheap high a god graphicscard is these days - around £150 for a 8800GT, and if you already have a pc, then you are set.

  • Ryuken #36 4 years ago

    "Adults who for some strange reason cannot buy games."

    There are enough people who do buy PC games, whether they are adult or not. Otherwise there wouldn't be a worthwhile business for PC games anymore. As last year proved, there still is enough money to be made, despite the pirating and "PC Gaming dies, take 78549" rumour making that's been going on again ever since the "next-gen" arrived.

    I don't think anyone could blame certain devs pointing out that they can make more money on consoles than on PC. It's their good right to make more money. But such a fact is not an excuse for someone like CliffyB to say it's only about Cooking Mama and that with the right approach (you know, like actually marketing your game and not releasing it as the last fps of the year, cfr. UTIII) and the right games (aka no shitty ports, no shitty console menu's, no poor online service, just a PC experience) you can't make a profit anymore on PC. That's just bollocks.
    Edited by 1 at 16/02/08 @ 13:36

  • TitusCrow #37 4 years ago

    epic have retired from pc games - wow never saw that one coming! ut3 was a pile of crap and anyone who played the demo new it was the death nell for epic's pc gaming -if that is the best they got they can go to hell...they wont be missed!

    cliffy is tring to rationalise why his companies games failed people do this when they dont want to blame the truth that it wasnt good enough by a country mile. thankfully we pc gamers have higher standards that some 14 year old who's 1st comment of thats cool! is about as in depth as there review of a game goes.
    1st persion shooters at 30fps - no thank you rts without mouse? no thank you - i for one shall stick to my pc,

    ps - i do have 360 and cod4 is great on it as is bioshock but there are always exceptions! big woop wanna fight about it>? "looks round for a fight"

  • Mr_Brown #38 4 years ago

    Personally I think there will always be a healthy PC games market. But to prosper as it once did it needs to seperate itself from the console market. Instead of constantly trying to out do the consoles by going down the 'PC will always be a step ahead of consoles graphically' bullshit path, they should instead concentrate on what it does best. MMO's, Roleplaying/ Turnbased games, Strategy games and original games created by mods and indie developers.

    What the PC does best is cater for a Hardcore market from a vast range. By offering games to specific demo-graphs and keeping them happy for years and years withg mods and expansions. Thats what it does best and what the consoles can't. Just the same as the fact that the PC will never offer games for everybody (casual gamers). Great PC games need to be focused on niche markets.

    So long as they do that and don't try and turn the PC market into another restricted competitor it the 'console market' it will flourish.

  • captain-future #39 4 years ago

    I've never been a PC gamer... always on consoles or Amiga 500 or C64.

    Mainly because PC gaming is really expensive, although I like graphic adventures and Sid Meier games... it's just that I love to just put the disc in the console and play for a short amount of time (damn you PS3 = teh computer with DMC4 etc!).

    --

    Epic's just doing what everybody does, following the money.

  • bluebird #40 4 years ago

    I agree with the points steviepunk made.

    To those who say that consoles can be chipped, piracy on the PC is in a totally different league.

    Sure, a console can be chipped, and for those in the know it's not that hard. However, it takes a hardware adjustment, you have to bring your console away, it brings uncertainty etc.

    Compare this with the PC, which requires no such thing. You simply download the patched version. No risk (aside from viruses), no hardware adjustment, instant satisfaction (with a torrent even faster than going to a store...).

    I would not be surprised if the PC gaming industry is close to the same situation as the music industry...

    The only exceptions are games which are server-based, such as WOW.

  • bluebird #41 4 years ago

    I agree with the points steviepunk made.

    To those who say that consoles can be chipped, piracy on the PC is in a totally different league.

    Sure, a console can be chipped, and for those in the know it's not that hard. However, it takes a hardware adjustment, you have to bring your console away, it brings uncertainty etc.

    Compare this with the PC, which requires no such thing. You simply download the patched version. No risk (aside from viruses), no hardware adjustment, instant satisfaction (with a torrent even faster than going to a store...).

    I would not be surprised if the PC gaming industry is close to the same situation as the music industry...

    The only exceptions are games which are server-based, such as WOW.

  • Skeletor #42 4 years ago

    @bluebird
    Are you sure you read the article? Doesn't sound like it...
    The music industry is a whole different story, don't compare apples to oranges.
    As mentioned in the article, PC gaming is not dying but changing. Besides, piracy on the PC is not as bad as some publishers want you to believe - good games do sell, especially games that are not available on consoles (like Stalker for example). Activision is whining about piracy but refuses to disable stolen multiplayer keys because they know that they need a big community, without the pirates the community - and therefore the lifecycle of the product - would be much smaller. Whether a product keeps selling or not on the PC also depends on the bug fixing on behalf of the developer, if the game stays buggy as hell months after its release because the developer doesn't care many people stop buying it.
    There are lots of reasons why some games don't sell and piracy is only one of them.
    Edited by 1 at 16/02/08 @ 19:46

  • Bitkari #43 4 years ago

    There is no problem in the world of PC gaming.

    We had this discussion when the PS2 came out; it proved fruitless then as it will again now.

    While PCs and Consoles do vie for eyeballs, they are still distinct platforms and will always have a core of users that the other platform aren't able to touch.


  • zoidberg #44 4 years ago

    The one thing nobody... and I mean NOBODY is considering is the support PC gaming will garner from OTHER influential third parties... besides Microsoft. Let me explain.

    Intel, AMD/ATi and nVidia all THRIVE on PC gaming. They build better and faster products just for the games. I mean, come on. If the PC was left to Internet browsing and Photoshop/Word documents, nobody would have come up with todays GPUs. Gaming has been the horse dragging the performance cart for years. And most hardware companies sell their most expensive top-of-the-line products to the same gamers over and over again. Buy a 8800 GTX now. Next year, a 9800 GTX. God knows what you'll buy in two years. Okay, so most gamers don't upgrade that fast, but they still upgrade eventually. A PC cycle is now about 3/4 years max. Hence the repeat business the hardware manufacturers get.

    If PC gaming was in disarray and heading down a path leading to its ultimate demise, nVidia, ATi and the like would rise to champion it, and digging deep into their pockets to keep it alive for a long long LONG money-making time.

    Maybe I'm wrong, but I really think that PC gaming IS what's pushing the performance envelope. It may not help gameplay but there's a whole lot of profit going on that NO shareholder would give up that easily. Especially to a single-company controlled console, like the Xbox 360 or PS3.

  • Waldo #45 4 years ago

    I wanna stick the game in the drive and be playing in a minute or 2..

    Better not buy a PS3 then. ;)

    As for the article, good PC games marketed decently will generally sell; perhaps Mister Bleszinski should be directing his ire towards the marketing departments of Microsoft and Midway?

  • WickedDeeJ #46 4 years ago

    I think Cliffy B's attitude in this interview seems somewhat...surly. UTIII was basically the same game they released back in '99, but with some new tweaks to better allow for the PS3 version.

    The thing is that, while UTIII on PS3 will definately be a new, shiny thing because the PS3 hasn't had any of these types of games before, on PC it seems like Epic just released UT again, but with higher resolution textures. In short; it lacked any sort of originality and innovation(at least for me) and I found myself digging through my old gameboxes, loading up the original UT, having a blast with it and then promptly returning UTIII to the store.

  • Malacath #47 4 years ago

    The PC games market has been dead a long time. Whenever you look in the PC charts you see the same games listed all the time. The sims 2 is always in the top 10 and that has been out years. If the PC market was alive an well then their would be a lot more decent new games in the charts other than the same old crap like sims 2.
    Edited by 1 at 17/02/08 @ 10:06

  • Chufty #48 4 years ago

    'Disarray' isnt' the same as 'dying'. The market isn't going to die but the games are changing, they're becoming more universally appealing and anything that tries to do that ends up making compromises. 'Charts' have never, in the history of anything, indicated which are the best, but which are the most popular.

    UT3 has been slagged off a lot in this comment thread but I think it caters perfectly for a niche that has been overlooked in recent years. If anything, the biggest problem with it was the menus, which are utter garbage. I recently bought World in Conflict and if anyone ever had any doubts about how best to design an ingame menu and multiplayer system, take a look at that game because it's just so clever in its simplicity.

    One other point that hasn't been made about the differences between consoles and PCs concerns the physical arrangement of the activity. FPS and RTS games on the PC don't just benefit from the mouse/keyboard but also the fact that they are played sitting at a desk within inches of a high resolution screen. Lounging on your couch or Pyramat across the room from your low res (1080p) screen is no way to play an RTS.

  • Fitzmogwai #49 4 years ago

    I'll be worried about the health of the PC gaming market when Valve abandon the platform. Not a moment before.

  • Trikk #50 4 years ago

    Ask Steam and Blizzard if PC gaming is dead. Warcraft 3 has around 50-60k players when I log in. Starcraft, Diablo 2, even older Blizz titles are still played online. If you look at MMO subs there's easily 11-12 million people subscribed.

    The thing you have to realize when making a game for the PC is that you're competing with the hugest backlog of games for any system ever, PLUS the fact that PC gamers are very likely to be hardcore gamers. Now you're probably wondering what I define as a hardcore gamer.

    If at any point you spent most of your weekends playing a game, spent your weekdays reading/discussing about it in school or at work, and that game was over 3 years old, you're basically a hardcore gamer. A hardcore gamer could decide today that he wants to take part of the Quake 3 community for example, he'll go out and buy it or pirate it if he's poor and then he'll play that sucker for hundreds of hours per month, perfecting his game and tweaking it, studying it and finding new friends through it.

    Hardcore gamers are hard to sell to, since they won't buy a game purely based on the fact that it's new unlike the entertainment gamers who prefer graphics, story, voice acting, cutscenes, etc, over gameplay. If you want to sell to hardcore gamers, you have to somehow convince them that your game is more competitive and evolves their preferred style of gameplay enough to warrant 4-5 times the money their game of choice costs (€10 for CS compared to €40 for CS:S when it came out for example).

    You could make the analogy that entertainment gamers enjoy watching blockbuster movies with huge production, hardcore gamers enjoy watching pornos that concentrate on the "action" and casual gamers (those who spend their day playing flash games, peggle, etc) enjoy watching daytime TV soap operas.

  • john_silence #51 4 years ago

    Trikk you're loco ;)

  • MGG #52 4 years ago

    @disc
    "Oh you know all about piracy do you.

    Being a 'pirate' does not give you the knowledge you know. "

    Are you accusing me of being a pirate? You condescending p***k - you do realise calling people things like that could end up in court, yes? Good job I'm not the suing kind.....

    And to suggest that I am a pirate - why would I be, WHEN I AM A GAMES DEVELOPING PROFESSIONAL? My pc, you will be happy to note, has no pirated material on it at all - I cant even remember the last time anyone had the nerve to even offer me a pirated game.

    OS: XP Home (fully legal)
    Firefox
    Opera
    Open Office
    MS Visual Studio (fully legal)
    Paint Shop Pro (fully legal)
    Blender
    Steam (fully legal)
    Civ 4 (fully legal)

    Need I go on?

  • MGG #53 4 years ago

    "PC gaming is dead, look at the charts, its all Sim this and Sim that".

    Maybe you all want to consider that a lot of games sold for the PC platform don't go through the same tills that generate the charts? In other words, don't have such high over-heads to pay the wages of the average brain-dead moron behind a till and glossy cardboard cut-out of Lara Croft?

    Also, the sims series has sold a complete shed-load of copies, that any console game would be jealous of? Never mind WoW etc....


    And to the person complaining that PC games are too expensive - which planet do you live on? Most games for PC are £20-25, certainly within a few weeks of release - compared to $40-60 for console games months afterwards? I still haven't played Gears of Way on the 360 as I refused to pay the rip-off prices for it - I waited so long for the price to come down, I actually emigrated in the meantime.

  • Katsumoto #54 4 years ago

    "The PC games market has been dead a long time. Whenever you look in the PC charts you see the same games listed all the time. The sims 2 is always in the top 10 and that has been out years. If the PC market was alive an well then their would be a lot more decent new games in the charts other than the same old crap like sims 2." - Crysis already platinum, 3 months after release? Hmm.

    People always say "PC Games only account for 15-20% of the market share, consoles make up the rest". For one, that's still a MASSIVE share, and two, that other 80% is split between 3 consoles! Anyway, as I said, the only people who seem to think there's a cause for concern are people who don't play Pc games anyway. No need to panic everyone!

    Also, what's with this "I like to stick the game in and play" argument. Apart from the FIRST time you want to play - that's still the case with PC games. I want to play, I stick in the disc and click the icon. And what's more, thanks to the ONE-time install, it loads a lot faster than my wii and ps2 games. Do some people think you have to install the game every time you play it or something?

    This sort of argument has been going on for years, but pc gaming is still alive and well. Sure, more games are being bought off the internet than from the shelves in Game and HMV, but hey - they're still being bought one way or another.
    Edited by 2 at 17/02/08 @ 15:07

  • Skeletor #55 4 years ago

    @Malacath
    "The PC games market has been dead a long time. Whenever you look in the PC charts you see the same games listed all the time. The sims 2 is always in the top 10 and that has been out years. If the PC market was alive an well then their would be a lot more decent new games in the charts other than the same old crap like sims 2."

    Wow, what a load of illogical crap. Because there are a bunch of games that dominate the UPPER positions of the charts PC gaming is supposed to be dead?! Logic...please;-)
    I said it before and I say it again, PC gaming is A LOT LESS HYPEBASED and the bigger titles (Sims, WOW, Crysis) are meant to sell over years which they do.

    @Katsumoto

    "People always say "PC Games only account for 15-20% of the market share, consoles make up the rest"."

    The problem with those numbers is that those are usually just American numbers and they DON'T take digital distribution into account. PC gaming in Europe, especially Germany and Eastern Europe, is still the dominating gaming platform.

  • jankster #56 4 years ago

    sour grapes on epics part with ut3 bombing and the masive flamewar that goes on in there forums over why ut3 isnt wot the pc gamerwanted

  • Katsumoto #57 4 years ago

    Indeed Skeletor; This is why i'm hopeful that even if all these naysayers are right and the big american companies drop the PC (doubtful, but i'm being hypothetical) then companies like Crytek and GSC Gameworld will continue to champion pc gaming :) But, tbh, even in America, there are still a LOT of pc games being bought and made. Steam is an American invention, after all. We'll be fine! hurrah! Time to break out the champagne.

  • Waldo #58 4 years ago

    Should also mention that American sales figures don't include numbers from major retailers such as Wal-Mart, or numbers from digital sales.

    You think those 15,000,000 registered Steam users haven't bought a few games here and there? ;) Not to mention from online services like GamersGate, TotalGaming, Direct2Drive, and Metaboli?
    Edited by 1 at 17/02/08 @ 19:39

  • Feanor #59 4 years ago

    PC gaming is in such disarray that I expect Valve will announce any day now that they'll only release Half Life 2:Episode 3 for consoles.

  • Yaz #60 4 years ago

    Really Feanor?

    [link url=http://www.next-gen.biz/index.ph p?option=com_content&task=view&id=7422&Itemid=61
    ]http://ww w.next-gen.biz/index.php?option...[/link]

    ;)

  • smoothn00dle #61 4 years ago

    Pc game fans always finished at the last post of any forum I read. 2008/2009, there is no exclusive fps game on PC's pipeline. These games are the one that push PC hardware sales. At this rate, the high end PC hardware market which solely reply onPC gaming will collapse in the next two years. Last year,world PC market was down by 2 percent. My analysis predicted this year should drop by to 4 percent. The sales of video card like 8800TX ultra will fall because there is no PC games to run it.

  • FlamingCarrot #62 4 years ago

    There's plenty of room in the gaming hot tub for all formats. I personally prefer a rub down with the PC.

  • haowan #63 4 years ago

    i don't feel sorry for laughing at smoothn00dle

  • Lemming81 #64 4 years ago

    I thought that entire article was pretty poorly researched. It's a total opinion piece displayed as fact. I'm not going to break it down, because frankly, it'd take ages and I've got better things to do. Funnily enough, on my PC where it's 'best tricks' are most certainly not on any console I'm aware of. Pale imitations, certainly, but stolen? That's a fuckin' laugh, mate.

  • MrChuckles #65 4 years ago

    Have a look at Sins of A Solar Empire.

    That'll never appear on console, and it looks rather awesome...

  • shadaik #66 4 years ago

    PC is hardcore, console is not? Last time I looked it was the other way round. Has been for at least 15 years. Someone who pays upwards of 200 euros just to play seems more hardcore to me than someone who owns something that nowadays can be found in every household on the continent (and the isles) and happens to also play games on it (most of them being downloaded games like Bejeweled).

    Also, with the gaming market growing strongly in 2007, PC gaming was the only sub-section of it actually shrinking.
    So, yes, PC gaming clearly is in disarray.

  • Skeletor #67 4 years ago

    @smoothn00dle

    PC hardware sales have NOTHING to do with the actual game sales. This ain't console land, a game developer on the PC doesn't care about rising or falling hardware sales. All that he cares about is seling his game to an already installed base. You're completely missing the point here.
    Btw, there will be several PC exclusives this year:

    Stalker: Clear Sky

    Dead Island
    [link url=http://www.deadislandgame.com/community/index.php?go =gallery
    ]http://ww w.deadislandgame.com/community/...[/link]

    Cryostasis
    [link url=http: //uk.pc.ign.com/articles/782/782465p1.html
    ]http://uk .pc.ign.com/articles/782/782465...[/link]

    Zeno Clash
    http://uk .pc.ign.com/articles/816/816440...
    Edited by 1 at 18/02/08 @ 10:51

  • john_silence #68 4 years ago

    Oh shadaik, your comment, though utterly irrelevant, is at least refreshing.
    Boys, here we have someone actually defending consoles on the ground that the hardware is more expensive than on the PC! I should turn that into a poster I think.
    You know "upwards of 200 euros" is what a decent graphics card costs on the PC, right? It doesn't buy you a full machine, just a GPU. I would prefer it if great gaming PC's cost the price of a console, unfortunately that is not the case, and it does usually require some dedication, a bit of a hardcore mindset if you like, to build a good gaming PC (though it's a financial sacrifice that can turn into big savings because of the much lower price of gaming software on the PC).
    As to the "downloaded games/Bejewelled" blah blah, well... Let's just say the people who play Cooking Mama are probably not the ones expressing their opinion on Eurogamer forums or growing the sales of hardcore PC games (with recent commercial successes such as STALKER or The Witcher), so you're missing the mark there too.

  • smoothn00dle #69 4 years ago


    @Skeletor
    PC gaming hardware is more complex than console system. I guess you are confused. PC game developer just like their console cousins live and die on install base. Install base is the number of Pc hit the requirement to run the game. There are millions and millions PC out there but to run Crysis, there are properly only a million or two now that explain why it only sold 89k first month.

    I never heard of Dead Island, Cryostasis and Zeno Clash. If they come out this year exclusively on PC, they will sold less than 100k. If these games port it to consoles, easily sold three times more than that. That is my call.

  • UncleLou #70 4 years ago

    PC out there but to run Crysis, there are properly only a million or two now that explain why it only sold 89k first month.


    I am not entirely sure what you're saying, but Crysis didn't only sell 89k in the first month. That was reported falsely. It sold 89k in the US in the first 10 days or so. Worldwide, it sold more than a million in a month or two, and these figures are already outdated, with the game still being No.1 in the German charts, for example.

    edit:

    Look, I even have a link for you.
    Edited by 1 at 18/02/08 @ 15:00

  • Katsumoto #71 4 years ago

    People are constantly saying "games sell more on consoles". It's like, okay, sure, but that doesn't mean they don't sell on pcs? Would you rather sell 4 copies or 5 copies, if the 5th is on PC? I don't get the logic.

  • Matfink #72 4 years ago

    As some here have noted above... behold, the 'PC Alliance'!
    [link url=http://www.mcvuk.com/news /29597/Microsoft-Nvidia-Intel-and-more-join-PC-Gaming-Allian ce
    ]http://ww w.mcvuk.com/news/29597/Microsof...[/link]
    Edited by 1 at 18/02/08 @ 15:31

  • samadriel #73 4 years ago

    "Are you accusing me of being a pirate? You condescending p***k - you do realise calling people things like that could end up in court, yes? Good job I'm not the suing kind..... "

    I'm calling you a pirate.

  • Skeletor #74 4 years ago

    @smoothn00dle
    "There are millions and millions PC out there but to run Crysis, there are properly only a million or two now that explain why it only sold 89k first month."

    Well, even if those numbers you give me are true...there's a solution to this problem - make the engine scaleable so it runs properly on older systems. Blizzard for example does this every time and their success is pretty evident, they simply don't need the consoles.
    Sure, FPS titles that are designed for highend systems are fine and all BUT they are by far not the only thing that PC gaming has to offer. It seems you based all your arguments on just one genre.
    Btw, 100K for Stalker CS and Dead Island?! You know, there's a world outside of the US and UK market. Eastern Europe (especially the freaking huge Russian market - ask Running with Scissors, they made a shitload of money with Postal 2 there) and Korea - both markets totally ignored by American sales numbers and both dominated by the PC.
    Edited by 1 at 18/02/08 @ 17:50

  • MtZ #75 4 years ago

    Actually both console and PC gaming are in disarray, not in terms of sales, but their mentality and quality is. Back in the 90´s consoles were about playing console games and PC, well, PC games. Everybody knew exactly what to expect from a console and PC. Nowadays its totally disordered and mixed, there´s actually no distinction between consoles and PCs anymore in most genres. Both consoles and PCs have lost their identities that they were carrying for 20 years or so. The majority of all the hyped games are just a horrid mix of console and PC elements in order to please everyone leading to content-poor games with just one thing good: the oh so much important photorealistic graphics that have never been such a big fuss during the last 2 decades for PC gamers and even less for console gamers.
    I´m a console RPG and action adventure fan for over 15 years as well an adventure, turn-based strategy and a bit of PC RPG fan. These genres, which are very representative of their platforms, are nowadays mainly produced either in Japan (console) or Middle and Eastern Europe (PC). The rest of the world and its big publishers is just content on making generic console-PC hybrid games, port them from one platform to the other leading to dumbed down versions and ... huh... creating online games, pfft.
    Edited by 2 at 18/02/08 @ 18:05

  • dnmoqf #76 4 years ago

    Yeah, make an ok (not more) shooter (UT3), make the buggiest port from a console ever (Gears of War PC), and then don't release any fixes for problems that user have been noting in the epic forums since the relase of the game. Other developers using EPIC engine having so much trouble they start suing? Epic; quit yer whining, fix yer damn crap.

  • shadaik #77 4 years ago

    @john_silence: Although there certainly are casuals on console and hardcore on PC, casual stands as the majority of gamers on PC while hardcore makes up the majority on consoles.
    What I see at the moment is that even companies like EA and Sega (who used to gladly do games for refridgerators if they could - not to speak of N-Gages) are currently abandoning personal computers. Hell, even Microsoft does when it comes to gaming (you can't say that they put any effort into their last few PC gaming outings such as Halo 2).

    Also, it is quite irrelevant imho what the people on eurogamer do. After all, we're not talking about eurogamer consumer behaviour, but the PC gaming market as a whole, aren't we?

    Also, I didn't say PCs are less expensive. I said that the money spent on a PC (granted, not a special gaming PC) is money people spend anyways (everybody has a PC) while a console is something you buy extra.
    Edited by 1 at 19/02/08 @ 20:14

  • MGG #78 4 years ago

    @retrend "MGG you are an total gimp. "Im a games industry professional, dontchaknow, and I dont take kindly to pirates!" Very good, well done, have a cookie. "

    And who the hell are you? Why the pathetic condescending tone? I made a valid point to start with, got called a pirate (why, cos I play PC games? T*t) and then replied to show how idiotic the claim was. Whats your f*cking problem? If you don't work in the games industry, do you want to imagine whats its like to work for companies that have to close down cos the games aren't selling enough, but the warez sites are full of them? Or to imagine people just taking large chunks of your work from you without paying?


    @samadriel " "Are you accusing me of being a pirate? You condescending p***k - you do realise calling people things like that could end up in court, yes? Good job I'm not the suing kind..... "

    I'm calling you a pirate."

    You know, just for you I may make an exception. Got a good lawyer? Or do you just use mammy and daddys?
    Edited by 1 at 20/02/08 @ 01:51

  • Katsumoto #79 4 years ago

    lol

  • john_silence #80 4 years ago

    Guys, did you read Epic just joined a board for promoting PC gaming, along with Nvidia, ATI, Microsoft, AMD, Intel, and Activision? These guys have a strange perspective on things.
    @shadaik: pretty good points, I see what you mean. I still think there's a big portion of the PC gaming demographic that's interested in pretty harcore software, as is evidenced by the thriving business of GPU manufacturers, in spite of the fact that their products cost the same as a console.