The King of Fighters: The Orochi Saga Comments by Matt Edwards

KoF never really grabbed me the way SF2 did.

+1

I really tried to like it, even though I generally hate fighting games anyway, but it never held me. It doesn't have the same soul as SFII, that need to play it at every opportunity. Still nice to have the option to buy it though.

The King of Fighters '98 Ultimate Match is coming out over here early next year.

I'd really like a decent port of Ninja Master's. More than any other SNK game, as Metal Slugs have already been ported. Did SNK forget how lovely Ninja Master's is? Emulation rules.

Harsh.

Yes, 98 is by far the best game in the collection. But that doesn't mean the other games are completely worthless (96/97 are two of my personal favourites), and for £13 it's an excellent value collection IMO. I can't speak for the quality of the ports, but judging from the review it sounds fine when run it at 60Hz.

KOF is the most elite of all fighting games by the amount of combinations and tactics that you have to learn IMO

And used to be hard as nails and nigh on impossible to the novice gamer.

Back in the day I liked the fact that as the start of the game you choose 3 fighters so that you could vary your strategey to the opponent at hand, clever stuff indeed.

But that was then, I wouldn't mind if they did a 360 update but I think this one is better left in the archives

Good grief, what a terrible review. I've read it twice and I still don't know what games are actually on this disc.

"I've read it twice and I still don't know what games are actually on this disc."

94, 95, 96, 97 and 98. I'm guessing, but 94-97 are generally referred to as 'The Orochi Saga'. The review doesn't make it clear though.

persona 4 review please now.

Never expected to see this review this morning! I'll be getting this for sure, mainly for the convenience of having them all on a single disc though it does mean that '99 is the only one not on the PS2. I know its not part of the Orochi saga but then neither is '98 so it would have been nice to have it thrown in too. '98 Ultimate Match should be ace though as should the upcoming Samurai Shodown Anthology.

Just got World Heroes Anthology in the post this morning btw so I'll be giving it a playtest later.

I wish I could muster up the enthusiasm for the KOF series, or SNKs fighters in general, but they always seem to feel a little stale and characterless to me. Undeniably mechanically sound, but they just lack that wow factor for me.

The KOF series plays very differently to SF and other Capcom fighters in general. Most western beat-em-up gamers (myself included) are brought up on a steady diet of Street Fighter, and as a result the SNK style is a bit of a departure. It took me a while to warm to it, but once you get past the differences the tactical depth needed to actually get pretty good is worth the investment. Some great character designs as well.

The games on the disc are KOF '94, '95, '96, '97 and '98. I've just re-read the review post subbing and it seems that although I've talked specifically about these games, perhaps it was an oversight to have not stated categorically that they were in the compilation.

As for the quality of the ports, well, they're certainly never going to compete with a consolized MVS. And they fall quite a bit short of the Japanese Saturn ports of KOF '95, '96 and '97, but they function okay.

Although the 5 first KOF games are a pretty good deal for £13, I reckon buying a second hand copy of KOF 2003 off eBay, for possibly cheaper, is a wiser investment. In my opinion it's a far better game compared to any of these early versions with proper tag gameplay, rather than just being limited to switching character after the current one is taken out. But this is just my opinion, I fully accept that some fans may prefer the older games or might want this disc for collection purposes.

Besides, I've never been a massive fan of The King of Fighters. In my opinion Garou: Mark of the Wolves is the best SNK fighter yet - beautiful to look at, tight mechanics and, even though small compared to other fighters, an exceptionally well balanced and interesting roster.

Ninja Master's eh?

Can't say I've played that one too much, but from what I've experienced it did seem a bit average :\ Although maybe I just haven't played it enough :p Personally, I think a decent PS2 compilation of The Last Blade would be pretty awesome. I've got Vol. 2 of the Japanese NeoGeo Collection - Bakumatsu Roman: Last Blade 2-in-1, and as far as ports go it's quite an accomplished package.

Fairly sound advice mr.Edwards.
I have to state though that the KoF's are far more technical and sofisticated than Capcoms mainstay.
SNK also dare to explore new ideas in each game (including risking the wrath of fans by mixing rosters) and thereby keep the series fresh in comparison.
Capcom on the other hand are loath to evolve absolutely anything about their game which drove me away many years ago.
(plus it just seems to attract the sort of no imagination fuckwit who just wants to play Ken/gouki)
I still enjoy the odd bout of SF, but SNK's fighters have an infinity of spirit and energy compared to capcoms best.

Plus, even KOF'94 still looks better than the horrible Udon remix. I dont know how true fans put up with that shit.

...thunderbolt is right, KoF is harder to get into but far more rewarding

"....but there's a screen filter that doesn't seem to be removable"

Instant non-sale.

I absolutely detest filters like that.

Ninja Masters was a wicked cross development between ADK and SNK from back in the day.
it was a very pretty and accessible string combo heavy one-on-one. (game engine played a little like killer instinct)
however the purely japanese roster must have turned of ideas of an international release.

the game had a truly great dark, bleak fuedal japanese atmosphere. a hidden gem

(i gave up with trying to get a copy Kizuna Encounter... sob sniff)

Ninja Master's eh?

Can't say I've played that one too much, but from what I've experienced it did seem a bit average :\ Although maybe I just haven't played it enough :p Personally, I think a decent PS2 compilation of The Last Blade would be pretty awesome. I've got Vol. 2 of the Japanese NeoGeo Collection - Bakumatsu Roman: Last Blade 2-in-1, and as far as ports go it's quite an accomplished package.

I'm by no means connoisseur of beat'em ups, but if you're into manga/anime/ninja/samurai stuff, Ninja Master's is one hell of a service. It nails this archetype, epic feel even better than Onimusha. Better than The Last Blade and SamSho, if you ask me. It's evidently unbalanced (this huge bloke with his hammer is no match for katana wielding Karasu), and CPU is extraordinary tough (reportedly 'cheating'). Back in the days it's difficulty could have been considered deal-breaking (arcade-wise), but reviving this dark, intoxicating beauty for PS2 owners would hurt no one. Although it's game about people hurting people. By the way, switching blood ON is essential. Bloody (nomen omen) gory slasher.

@Illusiondance

Well, considering there are around 10 PAL copies in existence and the last one sold for $12,000 I doubt you will find a copy of KE in the wild. If however you knew this and have the money to back it up then good luck to you! :)

SNK should really release a compilation of there rarer and lesser known fighters btw. Kizuna Encounter, Savage Reign and Aggressors of Dark Combat all get my vote. Add the Rival Schools games too if they were made by SNK (I'm not sure). I'd love to play these but the prices of AES consoles makes me sad :(

WHAT!!!!.....no KOF99.

My personal fave, kick ass soundtrack.

After Kof 2000, the games sucked....horrible backdrops, shite music.

"KOF '95 and '96 followed, but there were no radical changes"
Eh?
So going from having to pick pre-determined teams to being able to make teams of your own isn't a radical change in the game?!
Ooooookaaaaaay.

Anyway, for the first time I'm bummed I sold my 60GB PS3 in order to buy a new 80GB with a fresh warranty and a DS3 pad.

Btw, for PS3 owners, you can get the PSOne versions of KOF '95-'99 + Kyo from the HK PlayStation Store.
If you can tolerate the load times!

@mcwildcard

"So going from having to pick pre-determined teams to being able to make teams of your own isn't a radical change in the game?!
Ooooookaaaaaay."

I couldn't agree with you more on this point. I originally wrote:

"the next year saw the release of The King of Fighters ’95. Some significant changes were made including the option of making your own three man teams out of all the available fighters, but the series still had a way to go before it could compete with the likes of Street Fighter Alpha or Samurai Shodown 2. A year later The King of Fighters ’96 appeared in the arcade with new stages and a few more fighters, but was largely the same as the previous two titles."

But this was changed to "KOF '95 and '96 followed, but there were no radical changes" upon being submitted and subbed. What can I say? It's not like I didn't try to make this point. It's just how the process pans out sometimes... :p

So... I bought KOF 2003 about 6 months ago, but my PS2 wont play CD based games...

...been too busy with the 360 lately, so I'll hold on in vain hopes of a BC PS3 becoming available 2nd hand or otherwise, or a cheap replacement PS2.

What's the verdict on KOF 2003 compared to '98, then? Also - should I bother looking for Kof '94 or '95 for my Saturn?

@Matt_Edwards

Fair enough, although the editor should get a rap on the knuckles for that, as it makes you look like someone who's just pretending to be knowledgeable about the series, which reduces the credibility of the review.
That's probably compounded by the fact it's such a purist's game.

Anyway, you're vindicated, have the rest of the day off as a reward! :D

wuh? its a little silly to state that KoF had a way to go to compete with SFZero when it actually came out two years before capcoms re-imagining.
(please think about what you have done and go stand in the corner)

and to Ryze, what do you mean CD?

Anyway, its definately time SNK and ignition stopped re-releasing the first ten KoF years (this stuff should stay on xbla and wii's retro service.)
People missed this stuff the first time round due to consumer and corperate ignorance but it shouldnt mean new compilations twice a year. Time for the magnificent KoF XII.... and translated SS Bushido Retsuden

^ It's a 12cm optical disc with 700mb of data capacity.

Try Wikipedia for more info...

@illusiondance

*sigh*

If you read what I said properly:

"the next year saw the release of The King of Fighters ’95. Some significant changes were made including the option of making your own three man teams out of all the available fighters, but the series still had a way to go before it could compete with the likes of Street Fighter Alpha or Samurai Shodown 2. A year later The King of Fighters ’96 appeared in the arcade with new stages and a few more fighters, but was largely the same as the previous two titles."

The comment made about Street Fighter Alpha/Zero (i.e. the first Alpha/Zero game) was clearly connected to King of Fighters '95.

I think we can assume that KOF '95 came out in 1995 - July 25th according to Wiki, although I don't know whether this is the Japanese, American or UK release date. The NeoGeo fan site has the European AES release date down as September 1st 1995 (surprise, surprise - I'm not an encyclopaedia of release dates and actually have to check them :p).

As for Street Fighter Alpha/Zero, Wiki has this down as June 5th 1995 for Japan and June 27th 1995 for America. I'm not entirely sure about the Alpha release date in Europe - but as far as I'm aware, the European CPS2 A Boards were fully compatible with the American and European Blue B Boards, as well as the Japanese Green B Boards. So it doesn't really matter, both games were being played in UK arcades - at the least, a few days apart from each other, or at the most, a few months apart from each other. Certainly not 2 years! And even if it was a year, both games would still have been in the arcades fighting for those credits. So I feel at least in terms of facts, my point is accurate.

I kind of feel a bit juvenile saying this, but I feel you should go stand in the corner :p

@Ryze

Nice pertinent last comment

Yeah, the whole CD thing with the PS2 is annoying. It's happened to a couple of people I know including myself.

As far as I'm aware only KOF '95 came out for the Saturn in the UK - it came in a nice box complete with a ROM cartridge specifically for the game. If you have a Japanese Saturn you could also track down KOF '96 and '97 too - all three games even came in a nice collector’s edition complete with the Rom cartridge for KOF '95 and the 1MB RAM cartridge needed for both '96 and '97. You're best off scouring eBay, but The Orochi Saga is an okay economical compromise.

As for '98 compared to 2003. Some people prefer the older games, but on a personal level, I'd say 2003 flows better as a fighter (we'll, it is around 5 years older), looks nicer and just generally offers a more fun fighting experience. That's probably not saying too much, but it's too late in the day for me to be writing another review :s... :p

so you are suggesting Ignition printed 2003 on standard CD's?

To mr.Bagpuss, unfortunately the Orochi saga (as i think this compilation is tagged) ended with '97, so the inevitable '99-'02 should serve the chapter you want,
though surely all the fans have bought this years ago...

The CD based games are easy to spot if you get a chance to look at the disc beforehand - the surface of the disk (the data side) is a dark blue colour (I haven't seen any other variants). Tekken Tag Tournament, SVC CHaos: SNK vs Capcom and Marvel Vs Capcom 2 all came on these discs too off the top of my head. There are loads more too. Is it the slimline model that has the trouble reading CD games or is it just a random problem? My phat PS2 reads em' fine but does get considerably louder.

As for the Saturn KOF's, if you get them, make sure the accompanying carts are the real thing and not a third party cart because they won't work (the carts contain extra data on them and aren't just purely RAM expansions).

I noticed the review mentioned that some of the Saturn versions are superior to those in the Orochi Saga; surely the PS2 has better capabilities than the Saturn or am I missing something here? How can these versions manage to be inferior?

my guess is they are simply direct ports of the PSone code - which most certainly were inferior.
(hence the brave and honourable step of giving the saturn revs the RAM&ROM for the NeoGeo perfect conversions.)
'95 was one of the only games i have ever pre-ordered i might add, and despite the endless rage at boss battles it was a great purchase. it was a bit of history for Euro SNK fans.

while the ps2 now has a version of every fighting game under the sun i would not recommend it as a fighters machine - so many problems

Luckily I do have a saturn but its just a bog-standard PAL unit with no modifications. I was leaning towards getting a Action Replay cart which acts as the RAM packs/region unlocking device but obviously this wouldn't work with the KOF games because the cart slot would be occupied by the AR cart. As long as these versions aren't hideously broken in some way then I'll stick with the Orochi Saga unless I ever buy a modded Saturn.

"Although the 5 first KOF games are a pretty good deal for £13, I reckon buying a second hand copy of KOF 2003 off eBay, for possibly cheaper, is a wiser investment. In my opinion it's a far better game compared to any of these early versions with proper tag gameplay, rather than just being limited to switching character after the current one is taken out."

Personally I'd take 2002 over 2003, but I can understand the allure of tag gameplay. It did help freshen up the series an awful lot back when it was released, but IMO it felt more like a slightly botched first try than the pixel-perfect refinement of 98 and 2002. Since they stopped releasing them on MVS after that I kinda lost track of the series, although the new one does look very, very pretty...

"Besides, I've never been a massive fan of The King of Fighters."

No disrespect, but I kinda figured! You made your points well though, so fair play. It's a shame they didn't spend more time and effort on these ports... the games and the fans deserve better. I really hope SNK do well with the new KOF, because it's sad to see them exploiting their past and flaunting their T&A games.

Proofreading taking a massive hit at EG towers, apparently:

"We'd disagree in favour of some of the later games, but for its time KOF '98 a reasonably well balanced for a 2D fighter."

Luckily I do have a saturn but its just a bog-standard PAL unit with no modifications. I was leaning towards getting a Action Replay cart which acts as the RAM packs/region unlocking device but obviously this wouldn't work with the KOF games because the cart slot would be occupied by the AR cart. As long as these versions aren't hideously broken in some way then I'll stick with the Orochi Saga unless I ever buy a modded Saturn.

Have you ever tried emulation on PC? Saturn emulation is still in its infancy, but NeoGeo's vaporous guts lie on hacking wizards' operating tables for a long time.

Well, I've always been more of a console person tbh. I'm not knocking emulation on PC's because what it does is great but even though I wouldn't call myself a hardcore collector, I just prefer to own the originals or at least decent console ports.

The new King Of The Fighters is coming next year and it's Hi Def at 60fps and most importantly 2D. It's gonna be on the XB360/PS3...You can see footage on Youtube.