The collectors Comments by Rob Fahey

For the same price i'de rather have the box.... but that's the issue isn't it!! Why do digital downloads cost as much as boxed versions of the game?

I'm definitely in the ownership camp. Resale is less of a problem for me though.

I must say, I'm surprised at how addicted I've become to watching my Steam Games List grow. Years ago I was firmly in the camp that hated digital downloads - why buy something virtual when you can have a physical symbol of your nerdage? :P - but watching that list grow and grow is worryingly addictive. I think knowing that I have a significant collection of games within reach as long as I have an internet connection is what's convinced me.

All about OWNING the box et al. Something nice about having a proper collection.

As a games collector, I'm definitely for the continuation of physical media.

The only serious counter argument I can think of is, maybe not producing thousands of CD's and plastic cases is perhaps better for the environment? Unless all the extra computers and stuff (see how technical I can be) needed for digital distribution is perhaps even worse?

I much prefer a box on my shelf, too. But there again, sometimes if I want a game to play like NOW, I'll just go ahead and buy it on steam for convenience.

Both have their pluses, but I'd hate to see physical media completely abolished in ten years' time.

Im a collector alsow, I buy digital for the PS3 but only minigames that you cant buy in the store. I wil never change from buying a physical item to a digital....wel then the price would have to drop with over 50% and be able to download and share it with friends as much as I want...and that is NEVER gonna happen.

I always enjoy Fahey's articles, this is another good read.

I buy digital when i can for the convienience and for the fact that i have too much shit cluttering up the place already.

I've moved from being a "defender" of physical media to the point where I almost prefer a download version, particularly if it's on a decent, unified system like Steam. Shelves full of games and moving house a few times helped.

Still like my CDs (and books - not that there's a real alternative), but for films and games, I can easily do without a physical data carrier now.

Price is definitely the main issue for me. All of my PSP games I have picked up for £9.99 or less in shops whereas the digital version cost at least twice the amount. Until the price drops there is no way I will ever get a PSP game on download and Sony show no signs of doing this.

The same goes for Microsoft as well, just look at the price they charged for the Xbox Originals!

Price is definitely a problem. That's one of the things I was referring to when I mentioned services that really don't do anything for the consumer, but are designed to keep executives happy. Consumers *like* the fact that prices fall rapidly in stores - execs don't.

One of the reasons why iTunes is more successful than any games download service is that it gets that balance right. It's not always cheaper than retail stores, but it's fairly competitive on new releases and it does something which they don't do - it allows you to pick and choose album tracks and buy them individually. Right now, game digital distribution services aren't competitive on price and don't give any extra functionality for the premium. That needs to change.

When I heard that both Operation Anchorage and The Pitt were going to be released in disc format, I decided to wait rather than download. But then with Broken Steel initially seeming like a standalone, I downloaded it on the day of release.

However, now it seems Broken Steel and Point Lookout will have their own disc release. I can't wait that long to play Point Lookout. But if I see this second expansion disc going cheap somewhere next year, I just know I'll have to buy it for collection purposes... :s

Well, they say the first step is admitting you have a problem :P

Owning a game in a box ftw...

The way i think about what to play is looking at my shelf....keep forgetting what i have downloaded

...and...lets face it via digital they're going to charge just as much and not discount as much either

Price is the issue for me. I really resent being charged more for a download than I am charged for physical media. I read somewhere else its because if physical retail is undercut by digital then they stock your game at the back of the store and that really hurts sales. I have no idea if thats true but it sounds plausible.

Well... I see it as going the same way as every other audio/visual medium. Do you own the programs that you watch on the television? Only for the time slot that they are available, but you can buy the DVD or pay for the rental. This is how I see game ownership evolving. With a range of purchase choices from time share to full boxed permanent ownership. I can't imagine a scenario where it's not possible to buy a boxed version of a game, but prices should reflected on what the package contains, just as cable television works, in particular on demand services, today.

I don't resell any of my games ever, even the crappy ones, that's the collector in me, but I love having the physical media, brand new it's no contest because they cost the same, infact often play/amazon have deals that make the physical media cheaper than the digital, which is a bit loco really.

Generally my digital purchases are done in 2 situations:
1 - You can't get them in a box
2 - The deal is very good, and better than the physical media (some of steam's weekend deals etc)

If it doesn't fall into 1 or 2 I get the boxed version, if I can find it.

Good article Rob. TBH I'm kinda on both sides of the fence on this one.

I am warming to digital distribution. Music now DRM free means I'm buying music again and rarely buy a CD (unless I nab a bargain), movies now I'm icthing for Sony's video store. Games to, I've started renting off Metaboli and I buy off PSN/Live.

But I do like boxes to. Not so much with music I think that's dead and buried, but movies, TV I love boxsets and collections that look good on the shelf packed with extras. Many games still I love having them on my shelf to.

/ stares at RE, MGS, GTA games and smiles

Hopefully in a ideal world both can live in harmony. But as we all know the ents industry is not an ideal world, it's a horrid DRM hardware tied evil horrid, disgusting, slime sucking, filth licking, Michael Jackson hating mess.

Like these download portable versions of movies for instance, my Mrs nabbed Hancock on blu. I had a look at it using the PSP download. She had a business trip and wanted to watch it on her PSP to as she hadn't watched it yet. Couldn't use bloody disk again! OK so I try to take it off my PSP for hers. Can't bloody find it, it's hidden....and they wonder WHY people download???? I mean FFS is it really that important to stop a few poor or greedy people nabbing a free watch? Is it worth PUSHING people to torrents?

I just hope gaming DD at least follows Sony's route. Download on five machines, even give people your game. good stuff - although I doubt their movies will be free of evil horrid, disgusting, slime sucking, filth licking, Michael Jackson hating DRM.

/ plays his evil horrid, disgusting, slime sucking, filth licking, Michael Jackson hating DRM free Michael Jackson album on his PC,PS3,PSP,360,Girlfriends PC etc, etc...

I'm suprised how many people have just declared themselves "collectors." Maybe it's not a true cross section, as the article is about them, but maybe there is some truth in the article after all.

Me, I couldn't care less about owning the disc and the box. All they do is clutter the place up. I've bought one DVD video in my life, and that was only because there was nothing else to do that day. I dont even know where to put it now. It's been many years since I bought a music CD.

However I do get disc versions of most of my games because of the price - and it looks like that's something we can all agree on. There's no pont in a digital version costing more than the disc version, even if the digital versions are more convenient.

"I've bought one DVD video in my life"

Where as I have bought hundreds. Got a great collection.


It is hard to choose something to watch at times tho ;)

Many games I will ONLY consider worth buying a cheap second hand copy of.
Eliminate the second hand market, you not only kill an entire industry, but the VAST majority of gamers, those on low incomes, who rely on trading their games in and buying second hand ones - will be forced out entirely. And that will only harm the games industry more. Which I suppose will lead to the average price for a new game on these services going up, and making the situation even worse.

Zoidberg summed it up nicely there - who will pay the prices MS demand for XBox originals when they can buy it for £2 at the local shop?

Personally, I'm just as happy collecting games on a hard-disk as I am collecting them on my shelf, especially as I don't have to get up off my arse to play them. But I've been collecting [i]other media[/i] digitally for such a long time, I may have just gotten used to it. /shrugs

Without the box I'd forget I own certain games!

@ Sunyavadin

Indeed I've spoken to couple of my local retailers who rely more on 2nd hand lately and things are starting to look at bit worrying. More people are going for the download cheap games and retail is being left a bit. NOw with MS doing older games cheaper over the net a couple are a little worried.

As for gamers I wouldn't worry. IF the price is right trading in would not matter, the 2nd industry is so big no because people cannot afford their prices. With no 2nd hand less new stock shifting means they would HAVE to sell it cheaper. Mind you I've just swapped to rental (that swapgame over on the right), if you like it you can keep it for extra. I'm gonna try that for a while. DD 2nd hand or retail, whatever happens, I'm done with 40-30 quid for EVERY game I want.

I think one of the real reasons prices are high on digital content is the lack of competition. It's heavy competition from other box copy retailer that drives down box copy prices. As it happens Braid on PC is available via a couple of download services, all offer a slightly different price and different TOCs including the option to own the file without future authentication.

For consoles PSN and XBLA have virtual monopolies on the distribution of exclusive content and scarcity value will always command a premium. I am surprised the EU haven't looked into it yet. It would be interesting if services like Steam could sell 3rd party DLC on consoles and see what impact that would have on prices.

As for the second hand issue wouldn't it be interesting if we could auction our licenses, the developer and distributor can take a percentage of the transaction and the supply of second hand licenses would be proportional to the sale of the game in the first place.

Personally I am sick of the clutter that boxes have, and the constant reminder of the waste of money some impulse purchases were! Although I am concerned that one day the servers will go down, honestly how often do we really play games we bought years and years ago?

edit:spelling

Agreed - we NEED a system of license transfer, whereby the CONSUMER has the right to transfer the product to the possession of anyone else at any time. At any given time, at least half a dozen of my games are BORROWED by friends. Who often then buy a copy themselves. That's another market that a lack of transferability would harm.

I'm so ownership.

And what twinbee said also applies to me (note-to-self: you have to do that database thing for the videogame collection)

I mostly buy games digitally when they're in deals etc, my steam games list is getting close to 40 now...

I always buy DVD's though, I prefer to be able to just look at my 100+ collection and choose, rather than wait for something to buffer or whatever

honestly how often do we really play games we bought years and years ago?
That's hardly the point, is it? I mean, how often to you look at pictures you took years and years ago. It's all about memorabilia, it's ones life after all.

I'm a collector and I can't help it. :(

/Points towards games collection in his profile

There's just something very, very satisfying about having the physical box, manual (not that I ever read them) and disk.

In the last paragraphs of the article Steam is likened to Itunes. I have to say I don't agree with this concept. With Itunes you have the music, with Steam when the system is down you're screwed. Sure you have the files on your computer with Steam, but you don't have the .exe.

Attempting to work with Steam has been, in my experience, more akin to the first page of the article, corporations just wanting to screw you over. I love how when you buy a game on Steam that's it, it's over, you're screwed. If you buy a game from a box you have the physical game. You can return it to the store if it's broken, you can sell it to someone else, you can loan it to a friend. I'm a big Steam hater and will never use the system again, that's how horrible my experience was with them.

Collector here

o/

But I love the immediacy of digital downloads - when the service and the price is right.

I do tend to forget about games that are on my HDD though, so they do need decent visual interfaces, like coverflow.

I was very disappointed when I realised that I couldn't browse my collection using the excellent new NXE 3D interface on the 360. They should address this, as for browsing, it beats scrolling through a menu unless you already know what you're looking for.

I like Steam for its ease-of-use, that overlay is awesome in games. But it's not all good from what I've heard from other people, especially not if you're concerned about ownership rights or fair prices in the EU. A bit ironic it's mentioned in a positive light here with such an article title.

I've been doing the collecting thing for many years too, so have the resulting boxes and shelved full of games all over the place. With my music collection, it took me quite a while to pick up mp3s, as I was quite happy using my CDs at home and Minidiscs on the move. These days I still buy CDs, often when they're on sale, and then convert them to mp3 and use them that way. As I only buy and listen to albums, the opportunity to download individual tracks isn't all that appealing to me. So for the time being I don't see anything changing there.

By and large I still prefer buying physical games, but have been moving toward a more digital solution for some aspects of this. I think XBLA has had a significant effect on this, as for the most part there is no physical option to consider. Perhaps the biggest reason I've taken to it is that I can play my Arcade games on any Xbox with an internet connection, which saves me having to physically carry games about. My PC games collection on Steam has started growing for the same reason too. It also helps that both services often have sales on, which caters for my impulse buying instincts.

The PSPgo will be an interesting one for me. I already have a few PSP games, so am quite keen to see how their service for turning these into digital versions will work. Ideally I'd like to be able to buy a physical game and be able to convert it at my leisure, in much the same way as I operate with CDs. My least favourite idea would be some sort of trade in, but the logistics of that would likely make it more complicated to operate. Either way, I'm quite keen to have the device itself, so will be keeping a close eye on how it transpires.

I love having games on my shelf. Although sometimes its just easier to download than go down to the shop. Both have pros and cons.

The fact that these 'no soul, big money' publishers want all of you to only get their games via download, should be reason enough not to allow it.

Remeber how digital distribution was supposed to lead to lower launch day prices......well that was bullshit wasnt it.

If it benefits them, its screwing you........

The most basic reason to shun big budget DD purchases was given a year or so back. When I buy a game on a tangible medium, I know that I will always be able to play it, even when they discontinue their service (which will happen eventually to all services). couple of years ago Microsoft basically shut down MSN music (for zune marketplace) and told every user to go fuck themselves. They eventually crumbled under the massive criticism but the point stands. Once these services shut down, you're fucked.

So if you are like me and like to boot up some retro games every once in a while, the only way forward is on a tangible format.

I also don't see why I should pay the same for something digital as for something in a box.

I'm not against DD perce but like fuck that I'm going to pay anything more than 15 euro per pop for something that I can't hold and will become unusable when we move to the next system. When I pay for something like this, I want to own it and be able to sell it on, etc. I see no reason why i should pay so much money and still not actually own the product. It's utter bs.

@Rob Fahey
"In some cases, whole industries are effectively dragged kicking and screaming into this reality - witness Apple's relentless bullying of music companies into accepting high-quality, DRM-free distribution on the iTunes Music Store, when the music firms themselves far prefer music services with restrictive DRM and monthly subscription fees."

Right give Apple wrongfully credit..... fast rewind to 2007 http://www.theregister.co.uk/2007/01/24/...
"Apple's digital rights management lock on its iPod device and iTunes software is illegal, the Consumer Ombudsman in Norway has ruled."

They had two options was A) close down iTunes for norwegian customers or B) remove DRM.

For me games are a cheap form of throw-away entertainment. They have a number of hours of fun, after which I want a change. My affection for a game is short lived by comparison to music and movies, which I can go back to periodically often years or decades later. Once I'm finished with a game, that's it. I have no interest in holding onto it. Physical media means one thing for me – the chance to sell it, effectively reducing the cost of the hobby. Games as entertainment work in the same way sports do for me. I'll happily watch my favourite sports all my life, but I have no desire to go back and watch repeats, over and over again. Individual games are short lived (and I include games I've played continually for over a year) and a new game I'm interested in or a sequel to an old favourite proves this every time.

I've nothing against downloaded games or monthly subscriptions, but it has to work out as cheap as buying boxed versions are today, accounting for the fact I resell them once finished. Considering I buy maybe three or four games a year at most, and sell them on, these other services have to match or better the cost of gaming for me. If it sounds like I'm not into games, this isn't true. I'm certainly hardcore in the amount of hours I play each week, with currently, barely a day going by where I don't spend hours playing. I would probably play more games if they were available incredibly cheaply or free, for example, although to date I've never bothered to rent a game. I buy what really interests me, and ignore anything that won't keep me entertained for months on end.

In short I possibly spend £10-£15 a month equivalent on games (including XB Live). Given the choice of buying boxed copies and being able to sell them on, or a subscription based service... I'd still stick with the current way. I'm no fan of monthly payments and don't like feeling tied down. I already have this in life with a mortgage, tax and bills. I don't want the cost of gaming to feel like a bill or a tax!

I much prefer Digital Distribution in general. I think the time of physical media is over, at least for games.
But, the problem is; not many seem to share that idea, and if you do want a digital copy; you still pay for everything that happens for the physical medium. It makes no sense, but maybe.. just maybe... it'll change in the upcoming years.

A system like Steam where you can browse/buy/download is the most convenient way to purchase a game.
There's no trouble with shipping costs, the added price of a 3rd party for distribution and their profit margin, no physic media/disc/boxes nor booklets.

Games could be much cheaper than they are, without affecting the quality at all.

I don't even mind Digital content that much, such as mp3s as I can back these up on discs and harddrives, but I hate buying stuff on xbox live as I can't back that up which makes me feel I never really own it, if my console breaks i have to use some DRM transfer tool and re-download it off some server.

What happens in a few years?? or in the 'next gen' will this content that I've purchased still be available for me to download on my new console free? or even stored on the servers at all? it's that unknown and feeling of being at the mercy of large corporations.

lets not forget that thanks to secureROM many box copy games also require internet authorization. Okay some of these games allow de-authorization but it certainly puts a finite lifetime on a physical copy.

I might sound like i'm backing DD but it has done wonders for indie games. I also loved using rental services as it allowed me to get the most out of the few wii games worth playing.

On a side note its quiet interesting that DD services like GoG and the VC are pretty much the only way of maintaining old classics legitimately.

It seems for the majority of people the real issue is price and that publishers are unwilling to experiment with price discovery.

If games are going to cost the same as they do now, then i would rather keep the retailers and all the jobs that go with them.
Besides,when the wife is clothes shopping i bugger off and browse the games in the stores.What the fuck am i going to do if
you downloaders have your way.

Think of all the miserable married men before you start down this road,PLEASE I BEG YOU!!!

I'm not a huge fan of digital distribution. I have some Wii Virtual Console games but I, like others, get worried of what will happen to them in the next gen. Not only that but say Nintendo lose the rights to a game and your Wii breaks - is there then no way to get the game again if it has gone from the download service?

I also don't like not being able to bring the games round to a friend's. For example if a group of my friends want to play Pro-Evo but I don't own the game, how would they be able to bring it round to my house to play (assuming I have a bigger house that's better for social gatherings) - we'd have to go to the place of the game owner instead, or for him to carry his full console round.

The thing that has got me the angriest, though, is the DRM on physical discs. Because of work, I often need to upgrade and replace my PC a lot. I always need to keep ahead of the technology so I hate the idea that if I replace my PC 5 times, my games will no longer work for it. It seems like 5 times is a lot and will be a long time before the game is unusable, but I like to own the game for as long as want to play it, which could be a long, long time.

@peterv

You have a point there!

I completely forgot that game shops act as substitute crèches whilst mommy's gone to Iceland!

I might be wrong here, but once you download something off itunes, if you then loose it off your computer, you can't download it again?

I downloaded a video a few years ago to test the service for a couple of quid and I don't have access to it anymore, so it's not the same as Steam really?

Also - having to have an internet connection (in a country like the UK, where speeds and general service is still dire) to play offline games is another big sticking point for me.

I prefer the box please.

@badbyte in all fairness, Apple never wanted DRM on the iTunes store, the major record labels insisted on it when the original deals were put in place in 2002-3( or thereabouts). When, several years down the line, the labels realised that in doing this they had basically given Apple a monopoly in the digital music space which Apple had grasped with both hands they then started bleating about the Drm, inking drm free deals with Amazon etc to try and undermine Apple's market dominance and power.

Definitely another one for physcal media here. Downloading something just doesnt feel 'special' at all. Its too spur of the moment.

Having 1700 albums, 600 dvd's and 100 bku rays I would say I will never convert to the download brigade, not matter how much they push it. I like to see where my money has gone, not just when I am playing it.

Long story short:

Digital downloads as an alternative option to boxed product? Good.

Digital downloads as a replacement of boxed products? Nah.