Team Fortress 2 could support Vista vs. 360 play News

mouse v joypad

ouch.

Good news.. this would mean a lot of active players until the year 3000 ;) More players is better ;)

Sadly the 360 players will be slaughtered because the PC version will be hacked to death after 5 minutes.

Lag prediction engine ftl. \0/

Microsoft have been stingy annoying bastards of late, so I'd be surprised if they allow them to compete with the apparant shite that is shadowrun. Also they might be a little too precious about selling stuff off marketplace to allow, gasp, free user made content.

even barring "HAX", a gamepad can't match a mouse and keyboard for precision.

yea i reckon this PC v Console online gaming is a bit of a pants idea anyway

I still can't believe this isn't out till winter. It depresses me every time I read it.

No offence, but why would PC gamers want to pay extra (Live) to play with console players? It's not like there's a shortage of players for the game on the PC platform.

It would a decent deal for Xbox players as they won't have to pay any extra, but it doesn't seem to work so well the other way around.

PC players that have a 360 (and Live Gold) get Live PC for free... so maybe some people perfer this game on their PC?

PC players that have a 360 (and Live Gold) get Live PC for free... so maybe some people perfer this game on their PC?

OK good point, but I'd imagine that demographic is reasonably small.

Not so sure... A lot of my friends have a 360 for the "console" stuff and a PC for FPS and RTS games.

Mouse and keyboard players will own the console players... I play on PC and Im not very good at that! Id hate to be playing HL2 Deathmatch on my 360 only to be mainmed and humiliated by some goit with a keyboard... plus they would just use the gravity gun to throw the PCs at the console players just to rub salt in the wound.

FPS on PC vs Console with a joypad just wont work. Some people have been playing Counter-Strike for 6 hours each day for 8 years and their 1337 keyboard/mouse/pad, which have cost them more than a X360 console, would annihilate anyone with a joypad.

They could force PC players to use the Xbox 360 joypad, via the dongle, if they want to play against X360 players. That could work, but I don't see why anyone would take that option.

I've got a technical reason why it wont... Vista.

No way will I be upgrading whilst the current support shambles exists for this lemon.

That would be awesome!

And according to the devs on Shadowrun, pad vs. M+KB is quite evenly match - would just need some decent tweaking and fine-tuning then :)

PC pwnage won't be a given - I'm sure console players would get some sort of auto-aim to compensate.

But then for me as a PC gamer, auto-aim in a competitive online game just seems very wrong.

Thats the problem, console players won't be owned because they'll be given the added bonus of some sort of auto aim or aim assist. Its about getting the balance right though, trying to average out the two control methods through the use of auto aim. I don't think its unfair though, just evening out competition to make it fair on both the console and pc.

Mouse and keyboard players will own the console players...

Won't it depend on the level of auto-aim assistance that consoles get though? If it's too generous then it might be the consoles that 'own'.......?

edit, err or what Skillian said. Damn my eyes.

I thought I heard from somewhere (somebody else can hopefully provide a link) that when they did some tests with Halo 2 on PC vs. console the console players owned the PC players on the tight, complicated maps as they could manouvre better but the PC players were far better on the open, 'sniper' type maps. Has anyone else heard of this?

EDIT: Found this article - thought it was quite interesting in the whole console vs. PC debate:
http://rapture.hushedcasket.com/08/23/20...

"But let?s assume for a moment that HALO 3 launches with keyboard and mouse support. How will that affect the competitive HALO gaming community? How will it affect Major League Gaming?

Gamers would have to make a decision: do you play HALO 3 with a keyboard and mouse or do you play HALO 3 with a controller? MLG will have to make a decision: do we allow keyboards and mice at our events or keep this league as handheld controllers only?

I think the answer to both questions will be settled inside the game themselves. I predict that keyboard and mouse players will, in general, play the game better than handheld controller players. It?s a matter of human ergonomics and the freedom of the fingers. And since I think keyboards and mice will allow for more advanced gameplay and since MLG will want to have to the most skilled gamers at their events, you'll see them at the events.

Whether they have more aiming accuracy or not, keyboard and mouse gamers are able to input more commands faster than handheld controller players. This gives them an advantage. Who?s going to be able to pass more information into the game? A player that can max out eight fingers with a keyboard and mouse or a player than can max out 4 fingers with a handheld controller?

Some of the top HALO 2 players recognize that being able to input more commands faster is important. Walshy, one of the top 5 HALO 2 players in the world, grips in the XBOX controller in a style called ?the Claw?. Typically, a gamer with an XBOX controller can only use two fingers on their hands to input commands; the thumb and the index finger. After all, this is how the controller is designed. However, with ?the Claw? technique, console gamers are putting their right index finger (the finger normally used to pull the trigger to fire their weapon) on top of the controller to input button commands while the middle finger is used to pull the trigger. ?The Claw? gives gamers a third finger to use to input commands. It's like they are wanting more fingers to get access to more buttons. With "the Claw" Console gamers can now input more commands faster. ?The Claw? is a technique that is catching on. Still, that technique, won?t out duel a keyboard and mouse. In a typical setup, a keyboard and mouse gamer has two to three different buttons per left hand finger to input commands. And all buttons (keys) are located right under or right beside each finger. In reality, a keyboard user has about 16 buttons readily accessible will a handheld controller user only have 3 or 4.

The input commands to perform some of the advanced shooting glitches in HALO 2, like the double burst on the Battle Rifle or the double melee, would be distributed across two or three fingers with a keyboard and mouse. These commands could be entered instantly. With a controller, console gamers have to wait for their thumb to travel from button to button before the command can be completed. Keyboard users think ahead and have fingers resting to input the next command. Handheld users don't have this luxury due to the way the controller is designed and held. In the world of competitive HALO 2 gaming, a split second is often the difference between life and death."

They could rename the game Shooting Fish In A Barrel

i got the idea 360 vs pc is gonna suck...
Why would i wonna play against a pc player anyway (or vice versa)
Internet gaming has enough whiny bastards allready ( played cs for a few years ;-)
No need to create an extra subject people can whine about.

pcplayer:

U luxor noob, u got auto-aim...

xboxplayer:

man if u didnt have a keyboard and mouse i would so own you...

etc...

Just give the Xbox players a mouse & keyboard option, eh? That would make things much better.

On that note, this is coming out for PS3 too (which can take USB mice/KBs), but I take it from the story that there's no chance they could play with other platforms? From stories I've read they seemed to having trouble getting it online at all...

What would be really interesting would be PS3 vs 360 online but we all know THAT's not going to happen ;).

From the article:

Lombardi: And then there’s the unknown thing about what’s going on with Sony’s online stuff in general. I mean, we know Steam and what we can do on the PC like the back of our hands, and we’re pretty intimate with the Xbox with doing two pretty big releases over the past couple years. PS3 is brand new and PS3’s online is kind of scary so we’re hoping that EA is going to be a strong partner for us. (laughs) It’s always the scariest thing when it’s not all yours. With the PC it’s all ours, Steam is all ours, code’s ours, game’s ours. On 360 we’re making it, we’ve made it before, we know what the Live thing is, although it’s Microsoft’s so we kind of know it. PS3 we’re not building it, we haven’t made a PS3 title before, and we don’t really know what PS3 online really is. It’s always the devil you don’t know that you’re the most scared of.

Isn't it somewhat worrying that they're saying that at this late stage?

Oh, and if you're interested, gameinformer.com say they're getting a hands-on with the game tomorrow - worth looking out for.

edit: Sorry, not trying to spam this topic, it's just that this story is an interesting one for me.

Tweaks as in turning down the console auto-aim, no doubt.

Exactly. Just add auto-shoot and auto-move and you could destroy PC players without even touching the controller.

Shadowrun devs talk about controller balancing here: http://shadowrun.com/backstage/controlle...

From the conclusion: Some will say that the work we do to make the controller aiming feel good is basically cheating, and that it's not true “skill” that helps them win. From one perspective that might be true, but you have to look at our goal. We want to level the playing field between PC and console.

Edited 2 times, most recently on 29/03/07 @ 14:13

mouse v joypad

ouch.

tru.dat

The controller vs keyboard&mouse argument is meaningless IF you have a good matchmaking system. "Average" PC players get matched with "good" console players, both sides feel the game is balanced, fair and fun.

The only people who will feel different are the 0.0001% "pro" gamers who are fighting for a top 10 position on a leaderboard that only they care about. Everyone else will just be having fun playing with their friends regardless of xbox or PC.

That's a good point.

So long as they make the PC vs Xbox 360 thing optional I'll be happy. As already been said, 360 owners will get slaughtered by Keyboard and mouse users.

If TF2 is similar to TFC and allows the specific skills that each class has then PC gamers shouldl rip apart console gamers. I'd hate trying to do a decent rocket jump on a pad. Not to mention the pain that would be sniper on pad.

Personally I don't get the fuss over the whole 360 vs PC thing.

Not sure I'd really want to be playing against 360 players on my PC...

It seems dirty somehow.

What about the PC gamers who use a gamepad or joystick to play, will they get autoaiming too? :)

The answer is here: http://www.buyreflex.com/Index.aspx