Swastika prompts German Wolf recall News

Maybe Germans want to beat up Hitler!

I've always wondered about this law. Isn't it a bit like denying it ever happened?

Banning WW2 related games in the constitution instead of a symbol would be a greater service to the people nowadays.

This seems like an epic fail to me from Raven/Activision's part. Usually, you have a different certification for Germany, with basically a different version of the game.

Fail, Activision, fail! :)

This suggests it got past the German ratings board, so it's a bit of a fail from them really.

Nothing more than a public stunt after sales died to almost 0.

That was pretty negligent of the developers - my first thought on seeing the game was 'I wonder what their strategy is to remove all Nazi insignia from the German release?' (well, you didn't expect me to be excited about such a generic-sounding shooter, did you?)

@Jonny8: As the article says, you are allowed to use Nazi symbols where there is artistic or cultural purposes to its use, for example a documentary or drama, but you cannot glorify the Nazis. It's fair enough and we have similar (but less strict) laws in the UK. For example, it is illegal in Britain to deny that the holocaust killed millions of Jews, non-caucasians, and homosexuals.

I've always wondered about this law. Isn't it a bit like denying it ever happened?

The law was put in place to ensure it never happens again; but that was 60 years ago, which makes me wonder how long it will take to get over this

I've always wondered about this law. Isn't it a bit like denying it ever happened?

Yes and no is the answer to that. Before this law, germany had a real problem with Neo-Nazi groups, who were litterally trying to rally people under the swastika flag again. There was a real danger of an out of control underground (I mean seriously large not just small groups of racist nutters) springing up. It could have really screwed Germany up in the worlds eyes.

Now they operate a zero tollerance policy on the subject. It's basically the lesser of the two evils in their eyes.

@4thVariety

So they sneakily put a swastika in the game, knowing if the game doesn't sell well they could tip off the German rating's board so it could get pulled off the shelves? and if it did sell well they would have to pray no-one noticed the swastika, otherwise it would get recalled anyway

That's a fantastic plan for increasing sales!

"I've always wondered about this law. Isn't it a bit like denying it ever happened? "

Nothing like that at all. It's to completely remove any chance or choice for Neo-Nazi's to use the symbol to reignite hate. The swastika is a powerful, powerful symbol, due to the number of lives that were lost behind it. Humans work on symbology, and to have that symbol casually regarded in the place it gained its power would be paramount to repeat history.

It's a little pathetic that even after all this time; World War II still haunts us. Let the world move on from that terrible, terrible war.

65 years is the blink of an eye in terms of European history, so its not surprising that WW2 still 'haunts' us. There are still many people alive today who remember living through it.

As for the removal of swastikas in video games...well I can see the difference between having them in movies like American History X and an FPS. I dont think video games (FPSers in particular) encourage violence, however they also don't raise any issues regarding one's place in society.

That's some serious Vergangenheitsbewältigung there.

if there would be a very smart, artistic videogame dealing seriously with the WWII or 3rd Reich, then Swastikas would not be removed. But there is no AAA game dealing with that stuff. Maybe Tale of Tales (The Path) could handle it in a serious context.

checkout this comparison between german and other versions

http://www.schnittberichte.com/schnittbe...

somehow, the german version with it's made-up symbols give more depth to the game, more like a parallel universe

As the article says, you are allowed to use Nazi symbols where there is artistic or cultural purposes to its use, for example a documentary or drama, but you cannot glorify the Nazis.

I fail to see where REPEATEDLY SHOOTING THEM IN THE FACE FOR BEING EVIL BASTARDS counts as "Glorifying" them.

Does this mean we can have Bobby Kotick thrown into a German prison? Please?

@Sunyavadin: It's not exactly artistic or culturally worthwhile though either, is it? :)

@Dr_What " It's fair enough and we have similar (but less strict) laws in the UK. For example, it is illegal in Britain to deny that the holocaust killed millions of Jews, non-caucasians, and homosexuals. "

We don't. It has been proposed a couple of times (most recently at EU level) but has never been implemented in the UK. I think we were even one of the countries to oppose it the last time it came up in the EU. Denying the holocaust is undeniably stupid but should not be illegal in the UK. I can see why Germany have the laws they do, I just don't really agree with them.

Activision bosses? Possible jail time? Sounds good to me: if I were you, Activision boss guy, I'd move to Germany and publicly, loudly and repeatedly refuse to remove the swastika. :D

For ages you were in violation of these laws if you played DoD because one of the German models had a teeny tiny swastika on his helmet (the one on his head, btw, hur hur hur etc.) took the mod makers ages to sort it out.

@donnie080208

And that kind of moronically belligerent attitude is one of the - probably very many - reasons why you'll never, ever, ever be one of "the publishers".

Not surprised, but its a bit late anyway. This game has luckily done enough business in Germany, and I'm sure many gamers will just import it from across the border, aussieland or the U.K.

In a way, this is double standards, because Inglorious Bastards is WW2 film, which has little cultural value. In both that and Wolfenstien, you aren't worshipping the nazi scum by any means, just dispatching them to pass the time, til the credits roll. The chances of the game stirring the nazis up is very slim indeed.

"an historical"? Are you a northerner?

If the Nazi symbols are taken out then surely Wolfenstein becomes a game about killing German soldiers?!

Which must be offensive in Germany on some level.

FYI, talking about Hitler and nazis on network television in the US is apparently a big no-no, for some reason. Something that I find strange.

@Spekingur: What about the Soup Nazi episode of Seinfeld? Or Jerry Springer's famous final thought about his dad keeping his old car just in case it all happens again?

@ GhenghisNaan: Yes, because unfettered liberal attitudes have never to a decline in society throughout history, have they?

I quite like Sweden's approach to societal regulation - their laws and attitudes are very permissive, but their enforcement of them is incredibly brutal. This works because people in the society accept when they have done something that's a bad idea. I have a friend who was at a protest, was given three warnings to back off, and then she got punched in the face when she didn't back off. In the UK the press would be up in arms, but she's fine about it. She's a waif-ish, very beautiful young woman, very photogenic, who got punched in the face by a police officer, but she heard the three warnings and didn't back off so considers her treatment to have been fair.

In Sweden there is the attitude 'you know what the law is, and the police are not asking something unreasonable from you. We've drawn the line in a very reasonable place and given you fair warning, and you know we're going to f**k you up if you go over the line.' When people overstep the line it's accepted that they will get punished.

I love living in a liberal society, but I also see the need for enforcement of reasonable standards, otherwise you get dicks like the BNP allowed into government. Restricting the use of Nazi emblems to proper-usage is not only reasonable, but in a country that has historically had issues with far-right politics (and continues to have these) then it becomes a damn good idea.

I agree that there is a thin line between 'protecting society' and 'restricting freedom of speech', but it really pisses me off when people fail to even accept that it exists.

The German people are far from ignorant about the Nazi issue. They just choose not to trivialize it.

There is more at work here than meets the eye and the German version of the game is a stinker for many reasons:

blood and related FX were removed, ragdoll physics were removed, textures were removed, that sort of stuff.

That did not give the game the very obviously wanted 16 rating, it still got an 18 and Germans over the age of 18 are not happy with getting a censored version. Especially when the developers were the ones censoring it. People are scared away from those things even before things such as localization come into play. Sufficient to say about the localization is that either no native German speaker ever saw the German version, or gave his true opinion out of fear for his job. As far as the shops I know, they all sold the uncensored UK import with virtually no demand for the German version.

But now it gets interesting Because that still leaves the large corporations, such as Metro group (i.e. Media Markt, Saturn), and their giant stacks of Wolfenstein versions nobody wants. Those people at Metro surely are pissed. Their current motivation is to dump it in the bargain bin, curse Activision and order smaller numbers from them in the future. At least as far as Non-WoW, non Guitar Hero stuff is concerned. That in turn is a problem for Activision. They can't increase their market share if the largest German retailer is not ordering large amounts.

So Activision seems to do the smart thing by claiming a swastika. That gives them the chance to gracefully take back all those train wreck copies of Wolfenstein poisoning their relations with the large whole-sellers and chain retailers. That is the reason why you can still buy Wolfenstein today anywhere in Germany. The 10 copies in the front of the store are still there. The 300 they have in the back were sent back to Activision.

As far as using Nazi symbols even for comedic uses, Germany has come a long way, so even in games it would be ok as long as the game sends the right message. As proof I offer this spoof of "The Office". It is a RECURRING scetch in a German TV comedy show. In this episode Hitler's "swastika" key on his keyboard is broken:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zWLNniIRc24

lol, moffen.

How the hell can a videogame not be considered art?

because it's a game, not art

I had never tried typing 卍 before...

mr_ruberfon because it's a game, not art.

Guess we could discuss it all day, but the definition of art is something I would happily apply to many games. If painting a wall with chemicals is considered art, then rendering polygons and shading them could also be, why not?

WordReference on "art": http://www.wordreference.com/definition/art

It is strange to see those censored red and white swastika flags. It's not like people don't know what's really supposed to be on them...

Do they also have to take out references to any other aspects of WW2 Germany like Hitler, the Nazi party, concentration camps or gas chambers etc?

Or is it just the logo they don't like?