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Suda 51 Interview

Wii DS Interview by Oli Welsh

17 October, 2008

Page 1 of 3. Page 2 ->

We're told that Suda 51 - real name Goichi Suda, the eccentric head of the eccentric Grasshopper Manufacture studio - really likes interviews. We're told that spending a day sitting in a cubicle in the Business Meeting Area of the Tokyo Game Show, answering the same questions over and again, will be the highlight of his week. Uncharitably, we thought this made him an egomaniac. As it turns out, it's just because he's really nice.

Suda's an Anglophile in a Primal Scream t-shirt, a deep-voiced, laid-back kind of guy who doesn't look his 40 years. He's as unpretentious and ready to laugh as you wouldn't expect from his studied Tokyo cool, enigmatic nickname ("Go-ichi" sounds the same as "five-one" in Japanese) and bizarre, arty games.

Well, you might have thought that before No More Heroes. This year's free-roaming Wii action game was a crazed, hilarious mash-up of GTA's structure, Metal Gear Solid's flamboyance, Dynasty Warriors' epic melees, Pac-Man's fruit power-ups and an the menu of a posh Italian ice-cream parlour. Its nonchalant hero Travis Touchdown, obsessed with Mexican wrestling, anime and his t-shirt collection, doesn't seem a million miles away from Suda 51 himself. And for the first time in the history of Grasshopper's creations, he's back, in the just-announced No More Heroes: Desperate Stuggle.

"He's a cool guy!" enthuses Suda now. "When I worked on the scenario for No More Heroes, I liked the character I was creating. Actually, I wanted to write more about him in the first No More Heroes. I was thinking also that these kind of characters have a really interesting personality."

'Suda 51' Screenshot 2

Killer 7: bizarre.

As he stood on a noisy stage on the TGS show floor the day before, lapping up the screamed adulation of a contingent of obsessed American journalists, Suda had said that the reason he'd chosen to make his first-ever sequel was that he wanted to revisit Travis. Fair enough - but we suspect it's also because, for once, he'd actually sold some games.

Grasshopper came to global attention with Killer 7, the striking, hyper-violent on-rails shooter for GameCube and later PS2, published by Capcom. Its controls baffled as many as its graphics seduced, and it didn't exactly set store shelves alight. No More Heroes, on the other hand, was a modest but certifiable hit (in the West at least), wowing critics with its self-referential wit and slick combat, and filling a hole for many a dedicated gamer with a dusty, unloved Wii.

Suda's not too big to admit that success begets sequels. "When we worked on the first No More Heroes, [Grasshopper and Japanese publisher Marvelous] were really confident that this one was going to be a huge success. When we were talking at that time we said okay, if it really becomes a success, we should definitely make a sequel. The sales in US and Europe were pretty good so we said okay, we have to make it."

'Suda 51' Screenshot 1

No More Heroes: silly.

It's also, he says, a reality of the modern videogame business. Even though he's a man whose brain is overburdened with unrealised game concepts ("I'm going to die before I realise all my ideas"), economic realities make launching a new IP with every project unrealistic.

"When you start a new IP, it's really hard now. But... [Marvelous] actually really believed in me, was pushing me, but letting me do what I really wanted to. And he's really pushing hard with unique original stuff." The adventurous publisher, he's saying, deserved a break, and Suda was happy to oblige. "This is the very first time that I really wanted to make a sequel, out of all the titles I've made so far."

We don't know much about No More Heroes: Desperate Struggle (or plain old No More Heroes 2, as Suda 51 is quite happy to call it) beyond the teaser trailer that was shown at the game's TGS announcement, featuring grainy post-Communist imagery, a woman with laser-spouting Scorpion limbs, and Travis wielding a slick new beam katana. Suda's not saying much at this stage, either.

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Comments: 1-40 of 40 in total

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Tonka
17/10/08 @ 06:20
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I love his games.
Charlie_Miso
17/10/08 @ 06:25
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I picked NMH1 up this week.

Should be fun.
peak_performance
17/10/08 @ 06:36
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I picked up NMH last week.

It is fun.
Tonka
17/10/08 @ 06:49
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I love him.
Tonka
17/10/08 @ 06:51
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I love lamp.
Tonka
17/10/08 @ 06:51
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I love NMH.
NumberNone
17/10/08 @ 06:57
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Killer 7 was my favourite game last gen along with Shadow of The Colossus. So many great moments, but of them all the one that makes me smile most has to be the prehensile Afro haircut boss fight. Oh and the board room brain boss fight. Oh and the mental cut scenes. I could go on all day.......think I'll go play my Cube copy on my Wii instead :)

NMH2 is on my must buy list :)
Charlie_Miso
17/10/08 @ 06:57
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That's a lot of love.
Tonka
17/10/08 @ 07:06
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Afro haircut boss is one of the funniest moments in gaming. The stand off between the Killer 7 and the Handsome Rangers is another favourite.
Chtulie
17/10/08 @ 07:13
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When putting up screenshots of past Suda51/Grasshopper games, don't forget 'Michigan: Report From Hell'.
It might not have gotten an US release, but it did get a release in Europe and this is Eurogamer.
Evolution
17/10/08 @ 07:44
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Already been said I suppose, but I love this guy and his games ;)
For all their flaws, all the games I've played from him are brilliant and unique works of genius.
Ninja_Tino
17/10/08 @ 07:50
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What a lovely guy!
dr_faulk
17/10/08 @ 07:51
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It's official: this guy is brilliant!
dr_faulk
17/10/08 @ 07:51
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@ peak_performance

How I wish so much I could experience NMH for the first time again. Such a wonderful game.
Kiigan
17/10/08 @ 07:53
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How can the sales of NMH have been any good though? No one bought it. Even lots of his fans didn't buy it because the European version was so ruined by excessive self-censorship.

Really, unless he includes a "restored" version of the original NMH in the pack with NMH2 I see no reason to bother with a sequel.
Evolution
17/10/08 @ 07:59
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@Kiigan

I wonder how I enjoyed it so much with the "excessive self-censorship." Clearly it must have sold (for a Suda game) or else they wouldn't consider a second one.
Tonka
17/10/08 @ 08:17
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No questions about his 360 game? Will that be in a separate interview?
Oli [staff]
17/10/08 @ 08:25
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Chtulie, I looked for Michigan screenshots but I couldn't find any. I was in a hurry though.
Santino
17/10/08 @ 08:45
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NMH2 being in development makes me smile, hopefully they can get the overworld to the quality and polish of the missions, which were ace and looked much better and ran smoother.
Pulsar_t
17/10/08 @ 09:18
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No word on Project S?
PameBoy
17/10/08 @ 10:43
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I think it should be called No More Heroes 2: Some More Heroes
kinky_mong
17/10/08 @ 10:49
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I borrowed NMH from a friend last week.

It is not fun (IMO)

The two parts of the game (GTA style sections and hack 'n slash sections) don't gel together. The GTA section is bland and there's no real interaction with anything. It's just a convoluted way to get between the jobs and missions with a few hidden T-shirts to make it seem worthwhile.

The main mission sections boil down to bashing A and performing a Quick-time waggle to finish off the enemies, with dodging and more quick-time wrestling moves as a completely unnecessary extra for the minions. Then come the bosses which involve a bit more of the same but with repetitive grinding of their health with dodging actually being necessary. I got to the Rank 8 boss and after repeated efforts of slowly beating her down to a quarter of her health, each time she pulled out a one hit kill move which has a tiny dodge window. I gave up because nothing else the game had shown seemed worth the effort.

I didn't think much of Killer 7 either. I trawled through the game and when it finally got to a point where I was enjoying it it killed off all the different identities and makes the last level a matter of holding A to go from one cutscene to the next detailing a storyline that I'd long ago gave up trying to fathom.

I'd also like to draw attention to the fact he feels NMH2 wouldn't work on the 360. The only motion controls in the game are pretty much quick time events that could easily be replaced with button prompts.
Tonka
17/10/08 @ 11:06
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Where's the fun in mashing a button to do a wrestling move? It is just as stupid as waggling the remote to jump.
I like how the quicktime moves adds a rythm to the game rather than just a "match the icon with a button"
Mash A
Mash A
Mash A
Whack controller Right
wait
Repeat whack for triangle kill.

Each to her own I guess.
Nithron
17/10/08 @ 11:47
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Y'know, there was a time when western game developers were bordering on rock stardom. Remember John Romero, with his ridiculously expensive office at the top floor of a massive skyscraper, and his insanely hyped games?

Then he released something. And it was Daikatana.
Meho
17/10/08 @ 11:55
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Actually, No More Heroes' combat is probably a great example of the difference between eastern and western pihlosphies in designing combat systems. Teh Force Unleashed, for example has an expansive combat system, tons of combos that you can learn that involve learning the time between two button presses and combinations of a bunch of buttons on a controller. It also has momentum-breaking quick time events that detract from the experience. Also, combat doesn't look particularly cool or flashy unless you're using force powers. Opposed to it you have NMH which has slick, fantastically stylish combat, only two button to care about and yet manages not to devolve itself to the level of a simple button masher. The numerous thngs you can take care of during combat (stance, blocking, evasion, grappling, finishes) are all naturally absorbed in your muscle memory after a few minutes (with perhaps the exception of evasion thattakes more time due to controls for it being placed on the d-pad) and the clever combination of two well positioned buttons and motion sensing ensures you have a very comfortable time fighting tons of dumb enemies but also bosses who are smarter. Also, its quick time events are, for one, non-irritating, really quick due to the very smart use of motion sensing and they actually add to the immersion rather than detract from it as in 99% other games.

So, NMH is a gem. Not perfect, far from it, actually, but on a very good direction to being considered a future classic. For me this is an example with a game having such a strong sense of style (or perhaps even its uniques aesthetic) that this style becomes the substance. Perhaps this will sound blasphemous, but Shadow of the Colossus itself is hardly the deepest game arund and yet it is one of the most memorable because its gameplay was wrapped in such well defined, convincing aesthetics that your activities become one with the audiovisual spectacle and you never stopped and said to yourself "wait, the graphics are great but the gameplay is simplistic and at times weak" because you weren't really separating the two. NMH is similar to SotC in this respect.
Nilsy
17/10/08 @ 12:07
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What a complete sweetheart he seems to be. I love him:3
kangarootoo
17/10/08 @ 12:55
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@Meho

A good post, but allow me to play devil's advocate a little. You chose SW TFU as a comparison, but that is a game with a few issues of its own and not really an ideal candidate to represent the entire western game set. Perhaps God of War might have been a better example? Very western in approach, but with less of the flaws you seem to suggest and inherrent in western design approaches.

:)
spitfire1945
17/10/08 @ 12:58
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Just completed NMH for the second time with the true finale. I kept it for the last bit as I knew it would me make finish the game a second time (which also takes a lot less time since you have already acquired every power up, so you just go from one rank fight to the other!).

I seriously think this guy is a genius! I also played Killer 7 and part of Contact for DS (will finish it sooner or later)...! His games are always different from one to the other and they also break from the normal conception of a genre! Even if they are not perfect they introduce the player to see things differently. It happend to me a lot of time to look at his games and say "wow, never thought you can do things in this way!".

That's why I love this guy so much... you never know what is going to be next!
darc
17/10/08 @ 13:41
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I'm with Kinky_mong - I thought NMH was dumb as a stump. Don't get me wrong, it's all kinds of cool and I think the artists involved could have made an excellent animated film from this source material. But the gameplay is just lame and repetetive, and interspersed with mini games that are even worse.

A sequel that improved on a few things (he mentions scaling back on the open world concepts which the original failed at so terribly, so that's hopeful) and made use of the improved Wii motion sensing controls that have been announced... this could really be something.

Comparisons with Shadow of the Collossus aren't really germane IMO - SotC was not merely a matter of aesthetics - the gameplay itself was also, for all it's simplicity, very unique. They're not even in the same class as far as I'm concerned, but I guess I'm a bit of a SotC fanboy.
FenderMaster
17/10/08 @ 15:30
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i want... to buy him a beer
azmol01
17/10/08 @ 16:20
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Suda is a fricking legend! NMH is the best game this year and can be picked up at zavvi.co.uk for £14.99, or as part of HMV's 2 for £30 sale! :D
aine
17/10/08 @ 16:37
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i'd catch his pants.
Krelle
17/10/08 @ 16:43
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"We're told that Suda 51 - real name Goichi Suda.."

His real name is Suda 51. In a way :)

You read 5 as "go" and 1 as "ichi" in japanese, so for everyone who still dont know why hes got numbers in his name, this is the reason. (Well, not the -reason-, but an explanation of WHY they are there. In a name.)
ArtOfLife
17/10/08 @ 16:56
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What a cool guy. I still don't have No More Heroes though, because I don't own a Wii. Killer 7 was mostly great though. I'm very interested in that Flower, Sun and Rain game he was working on for the DS.
Tonka
17/10/08 @ 17:18
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@Krelle: You didn't read much of the article before you posted that did you?
;)
Edited 1 times, most recently on 17/10/08 @ 18:18
Oh-Bollox
17/10/08 @ 17:18
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How can the sales of NMH have been any good though? No one bought it. Even lots of his fans didn't buy it because the European version was so ruined by excessive self-censorship.

"We are weeping with delight. Especially as sales should improve further with the TV campaign moving up a gear from tonight,” said Rising Star managing director Martin Defries. “It is a verification of all the posturing and ambitious claims made these past months.

I'm not chuffed with the self-censorship either, but NMH did do quite well in terms of sales.
1simen1
17/10/08 @ 21:47
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So far the game has sold about 360k worldwide (vgchartz.com). Not bad for a low budget wii game , hence a sequal.
Hypercube
19/10/08 @ 02:07
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Let's just face facts - every single person living in Japan is cooler than we are. I not only endorse this view-point, I actively encourage it. So why not book a rectifying jaunt to the land of Nihon through hypercube airways. I promise, we have no idea what we're doing.
zzyzx
19/10/08 @ 23:53
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Is NMH2 going to use the new motion+ enhancement? Seems like an obvious choice, but I don't remember reading about it in the interview.
Tonka
20/10/08 @ 09:09
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He has hinted about it somewhere. As in "Yeah, we are looking at M+".
I sure as hell hope it won't be some 1:1 sword fighting. A dojo where new moves has to be performed with M+ to be added to the combos would be nice.

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