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Stormfront boss defends Wii's right to be called next-gen News
Wii News by Tom Bramwell
Stormfront Studios' Don Daglow has defended the Wii's right to be called a next-generation console during his GCDC speech in Germany this afternoon.
"I'm sure that somewhere in this little section of this room, there's somebody who does not believe the Wii is next-gen," he said.
"It does not have the processing power the 360 or the PS3 do, and you can make the consistent argument that, without that processing power, it can not revolutionise the entire experience. That's debateable, and we get to decide."
"Nobody gets to tell us what we think is next-gen - we get to decide for ourselves. I can help start arguing, but we get to decide for ourselves."
During a reflective one-hour session towards the end of GCDC's first day, Daglow, president and CEO of Stormfront, also encouraged his fellow developers to look beyond the traditional definition of "next generation".
"Next-gen hardware is any platform that, upon its introduction, dramatically changes players' view of the potential for interactive entertainment," he said, before arguing that it's a definition that fits software as well.
"If it changes the player's view of what interactive entertainment is; if you think differently about it; if you have a new perspective after playing the game that you didn't have before, to me that's next-gen," he told the audience.
To support that point of view, Daglow put forward a range of games that had shifted perspectives and proven influential in hindsight - games like Sim City, Guitar Hero, Geometry Wars and World of Warcraft.
The veteran developer - whose career has also encompassed spells at Intellivision, Broderbund and EA - devoted the early part of his session to examining the cyclical nature of console cycles. He spoke of the way developers' appreciation of the hardware matures each time, how certain types of game and certain types of consumer form noticeable patterns, and how people - developers, press and public - tend to react to consoles in distinct ways at each point.
"We've spent a quarter of a century saying 'the machine is holding me back'," he said to begin. "The only problem is that now the machines are so powerful, we've lost our excuse."
"So we've thought about this for a while as game designers - and decided we're going to blame the finance guys," he joked.
Echoing sentiments expressed in Julian Eggebrecht's keynote at the top of the event, he finished by imploring the developers in the audience, to whom he paid tribute, to continue pressing forward. "That search for next-gen is what inspires us to keep trying to change and create new things, has us seeking to dramatically change people's views of what this medium can do."
"As a game player, the one thing I want to ask you is never to give up," he said. "There is always a next-gen available tomorrow."
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souljacker2000
20/08/07 @ 15:58
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I didnt i just wanted sumit to read towards the end of the day.... ill go back to reading health n safety regulations
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BadBoyBonner
20/08/07 @ 15:59
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Xmas day 2006 - playing Tennis and Bowling – stood up doing the actions - with all the family joining in, sure felt like a new generation of gaming to me.
A gaming golden moment - seeing everyone I love enjoying the thing I have loved for so many years - they finally "got it". Maybe the Wii is the only next gen console, with the PS3 and 360 being graphical updates of the last system. Well done Nintendo. |
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afghan_jones
20/08/07 @ 16:01
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cue lots of posts and abuse, culminating in angry fanboy ranting as hot salty tears stream down their angry red little faces.
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ExplodingClown
20/08/07 @ 16:05
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This article title is misleading! There I was thinking Nintendo had got into bed with the neo-Nazis.
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afghan_jones
20/08/07 @ 16:09
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@Lollers
dont get me started on those fucking razors. By 2010 we will all be shaving using the new Gilette 69 which has 69 individual blades for the closest shave ever!. Fucking bollocks. |
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SniperWolf
20/08/07 @ 16:16
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Wii is current gen with 10 year old tech. I find it sad you can now buy a 360 for the same price as a Wii.
Way to milk your userbase Nintendo, I read somewhere that it costs Nintendo 30 english pennies to make a Wii and bundle it with Wii sports...less than the price of a mars bar or a bag of maltesers planets.
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most recently on 20/08/07 @ 17:17
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kangarootoo
20/08/07 @ 16:21
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Next-gen is just a buzz word, but we as gamers are as much to blame.
I lose track of the number of times I've read a comment stating that next-gen should be able to do all these amazing things at once at a high res with an amazing frame rate, hundreds of characters on screen and amazing AI. No one talks about cars in these terms. Maybe if there was 10+ different games consoles people wouldn't see these things as generations, but rather just individual iterations of individual products. |
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I'm really not convinced that the Wii is truly 'next-gen' (if anything is 'next-gen' anymore.) Ok, its got a innovative control system, but having played it quite a bit I can't say that its blown my mind. I think the fact that there's so few games which really use the controller (or wiimote/whatever) shows that Nintendo knows its got this great thing, but doesn't actually know what to do with it.
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kangarootoo
20/08/07 @ 16:23
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@SniperWolf
"I read somewhere that it costs Nintendo 30 english pennies to make a Wii and bundle it with Wii sports" That was a subtle joke, right? |
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The Wii is firmly last gen. The controller is nice when used well but the games themselves are not as engaging as (say) motorstorm or forza both of which on the right setup blow anything on the wii clean away as far as I am concerned.
Unfortunately sony's complete droping of the ball price wise has allowed nintendo to prosper, which ultimately is a shame because it will allow Nintendo to rest on their laurels rather develop some actual good hardware. |
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kangarootoo
20/08/07 @ 16:24
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@Ed6445
I really think its just down to the games. I believe the console itself is everything Ninty said it would be, its just there are barely any decent games to take advantage of what the hardware can do. |
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afghan_jones
20/08/07 @ 16:28
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@kanga
agreed. For me the Wii is still all about potential. Potential on which it still has not delivered. as a gamer, this has to always be about the games. until the wii has a decent library of games to back up the hardware then it doesnt matter what gen it is, it isnt worth having. Same goes for PS3 at present, and also for the 360 in its first year. Whatever the hardware of any console is capable of doing, unless it can actually deliver on its capabilities through great games, then it is all irrelevant bullshit until it does. |
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The bottom line for me is that on a 37" LCD TV the Wii looks shite!!! Whilst graphics aren't everything they could at least have made it HD.
They spent alot of money on R&D and have a USP (the Wiimote) but I'm still not sure that it justifies costing as much as the 360 core, which has better graphics, better online features (for me online is a key point to this gen). Ninty might have to look at dropping the price of the Wii £100 before joe public realised that they are being ripped off |
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The Bodybuilder
20/08/07 @ 17:01
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@ Totoriko
You're missing quite a bit of videogame history there. |
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SniperWolf
20/08/07 @ 17:21
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Next gen razors are cool, but have you seen those next gen tampons?. They tell you when it's time to buy a caffè espresso.
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MasterControlProgram
20/08/07 @ 17:28
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Well, to my knowledge Nintendo and ATI/AMD have not released anything more than vague details about Wii tech specs: so, it could even have a ternary-logic protein-based CPU beefed up by a photon driven GPU, but the discussion would be pointless all the same...
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Artemis_Matsas
20/08/07 @ 18:06
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Hardware wise, the Wii is indeed far behind the 360 and the PS3 there is no arguing that.
The biggest innovation is the control method, the ease of use and the ability to fit even in the most crowded setups. I'm looking under my telly, and there's the PS2 and the PS3 along with my little unobtrusive Wii. I'm seriously thinking on getting a 360, but it's size still deters me (Yes i know that the PS3 is massive too, but i really wanted a good Blue Ray player for my HDTV). I didn't have any such reservations about the Wii. It was small, affordable and could play all my old GC games - sold. So, in it's own merits, it is next gen either you like it or not. (Although admitedly it doesn't look so hot on my TV). |
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PlugMonkey
20/08/07 @ 18:19
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dont get me started on those fucking razors.
Amen to that. In five years time they'll be the size of dinner plates. That said, the girlfriend was quite disappointed when she discovered my razor only has two blades so maybe the marketing isn't aimed at us... |
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GamesConnoisseur
20/08/07 @ 18:55
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Wii is a good gaming device, but the real question is can there be enough brilliant games that are going to be realised on Wii?
http://www.metacritic.com/games/wii/ You can see from the top 20 titles to the right, the average score are lot lower than other top 20 scores from other platforms (especially X360 and PS3). My concern is that far too much Wii titles would be quick blast and party games, also a quick way for publishers to make fast bucks. I am happy to have Wii for a few unmissable titles as wel as my back catalogue of GC, but it is indeed not using my HDTV to advantage, it can be so visually ugly. As an owner of all main platforms, Wii can be like a poor sibling never mind feeling like a next gen! But still looking forward to Metroid Prime, SM Galaxy, Resident Evil and NiGHTS. I only want to be reassured that Wii is not going to be a short term fad. So Nintendo need to pull up their sock or be prepared to release Wii version 2 in couple of years or less, with HD capabilities should Wii eventually be proven to be limited in what it can push the boundary for future games. |
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Sky Blue Sam
20/08/07 @ 18:57
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It's current-gen now, is it not?
Ditto PS3 and Xbox 360. How are they still being referred to as next-gen? |
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Xmas day 2006 - playing Tennis and Bowling – stood up doing the actions - with all the family joining in, sure felt like a new generation of gaming to me.
A gaming golden moment - seeing everyone I love enjoying the thing I have loved for so many years - they finally "got it". @BadBoyBonner so you must have enjoyed Tennis and Bowling for years then, right?...cause I surely can't say WiiSports is the culmination of my many years as a gamer. They didn't "get it"...they got what Nintendo served "a watered down casual gaming next gen console. Can't your family just get together on Christmas and play charades, cards or board games? |
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"Why are so many people still calling consoles that have been out for months "next" gen. It's gotten beyond tiresome."
@Feanor IMHO, it's still next gen until last gen becomes somewhat retro which the PS2 is definitely NOT. You must have gotten tired for 5 game generations then :) "Yes Mr. D.J. Flex 53; it's just like a board game except it happens on a computer!" @wizbob aha!....so the Wii is a computer too? I gotta buy one then. |
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The_Inquisitor
20/08/07 @ 22:18
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Are people still debating what 'next-gen' warrants? Does everything need to be labelled or part of an exclusive club before it is taken seriously?
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BadBoyBonner
20/08/07 @ 22:22
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DjFlex52
"so you must have enjoyed Tennis and Bowling for years then, right?...cause I surely can't say WiiSports is the culmination of my many years as a gamer. They didn't "get it"...they got what Nintendo served "a watered down casual gaming next gen console. Can't your family just get together on Christmas and play charades, cards or board games?" You seem to have missed the point, perhaps on purpose. Xmas 2006 was less than 12 months ago, certainly not years ago. Unless, your saying have I enjoyed electronic tennis for years? The answer to that is yes, with the first Gameboy version, Super Tennis on Snes, Mario Tennis on N64, and the Virtua Tennis 1&2 games on Dreamcast. Not once did a single family member show any desire to join in and play any of the above. They got what Nintendo served "a watered down casual gaming next gen console". No they did not, they got exactly what they wanted, as the hardware sales display with absolute authority. The bravery Nintendo have shown with the DS and Wii - is almost untouched by Sony or MS - arguably only the EyeToy comes close to Nintendo's maverick style. And just so I am not open to your interpretation. 1) Anyone who has played the above tennis games for years, knows exactly how exhilarating it was the first few games of Wii Tennis felt. 2) The device Nintendo has created allows the widest variety of skill levels for all to play and enjoy playing with each other. My Gran will never challenge me to a game of Counterstrike, but she loved having a go at tennis and bowling (and eventually PGR3 with the force feedback wheel). And I think the PGR3 statement is the key. Nintendo realise that all humans like to play, it's providing a mechanism that allows enjoyable play that separates the Wii. The wheel is something she can relate to, holding a pad like a racket is something she can relate to, writing with a stylus is something she can relate to. Do I play on my Wii more than my 360? No. But , when friends and family come round they all want play Wii not 360. Will Wii suddenly generate an upsurge in software sales? Not really I do not think. I think the attach rate for Wii will be quite low as I guess a lot of the people who buy it, that are not gamers, will be quite happy with the pack in game, as it was the only reason they bought it. Much rests on Metroid and Mario. Can the Wii pull off a genre leading game on the system? We'll find out very shortly in Metroid's case, and EG semed to like SMG. As for the last part of your comment. “Can't your family just get together on Christmas and play charades, cards or board games?" First your making an assumption that that hasn’t already happened is wrong. Second, everyone likes to try something new in my family and so we did, and I loved the shared experience.
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most recently on 21/08/07 @ 00:06
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It must suck to be a Wii aficionado, you got keep saying it's cool, and it's not girlish, and it doesn't have the same games Mario XXXIV and shit...
Personally I think Wii is a great system for people who aren't into games, on the other hand I'm not one of those.
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most recently on 20/08/07 @ 23:51
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wow...sorry I hit that nerve with such force, BadBoyBonner
did you leave anything still on your mind? "The wheel is something she can relate to, holding a pad like a racket is something she can relate to, writing with a stylus is something she can relate to." @BadBoyBonner but pressing buttons like that of a remote, cell phone, calculator (and their buttons are even smaller than a gamepad) etc is just too complicated and all non gamers can't relate to it...uh huh
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most recently on 21/08/07 @ 00:09
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@ miiiguel
It must suck to be an 'anti wii' Wii person.. As you have to dismiss a new mario game as "being more of the same" when each main mario game has been so different.. while praising halo 3 - which is more of the same with prettier pixels. Personally I think Wii is a great system for people who ARE into games, such as me. And not just for people who just like pretty pixels in their same games over and over again. Obviously it's a shame games have been thin on the ground. But after metroid/smash bros/batallion wars/mario gets released.. as long as they're as good as im hoping they'll be - then i wont need to play any other games.. That'll be more than enough to make me happy about my purchase. Who needs other games when you have those 4?
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most recently on 21/08/07 @ 00:38
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BadBoyBonner
20/08/07 @ 23:44
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You haven't hit a nerve, no need to apologise. For me, ya can can't beat a bit of banter with people with passion for games, always happy to have a "chat" about something ;-)
“but pressing buttons like that of a remote, cell phone, calculator (and their buttons are even smaller than a gamepad) etc is just too complicated and all non gamers can't relate to it...uh huh ” It is not that they can not relate to the actions you have described or they do not have the capacity to figure them out. It is that, if they can not relate to them instinctively, they can not be bothered to work them out. It makes no sense to them. I love Crackdown for instance, but the controls that feel lovely to me, are completely alien to “non gamers”; seeming more like an esoteric control scheme for a virtual difficult to control robot, rather than feeling at one. Years of training in the art of abstract controls makes everything seem second nature to us [gamers]. For most other people it is not the case, Wii has bridged that gap, and subsequently gone on to sales levels even Nintendo never predicted, hence the supply issues. |
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