Stormfront boss defends Wii's right to be called next-gen

By Tom Bramwell Published 20 August, 2007

Says we need to look beyond.

Stormfront Studios' Don Daglow has defended the Wii's right to be called a next-generation console during his GCDC speech in Germany this afternoon.

"I'm sure that somewhere in this little section of this room, there's somebody who does not believe the Wii is next-gen," he said.

"It does not have the processing power the 360 or the PS3 do, and you can make the consistent argument that, without that processing power, it can not revolutionise the entire experience. That's debateable, and we get to decide."

"Nobody gets to tell us what we think is next-gen - we get to decide for ourselves. I can help start arguing, but we get to decide for ourselves."

During a reflective one-hour session towards the end of GCDC's first day, Daglow, president and CEO of Stormfront, also encouraged his fellow developers to look beyond the traditional definition of "next generation".

"Next-gen hardware is any platform that, upon its introduction, dramatically changes players' view of the potential for interactive entertainment," he said, before arguing that it's a definition that fits software as well.

"If it changes the player's view of what interactive entertainment is; if you think differently about it; if you have a new perspective after playing the game that you didn't have before, to me that's next-gen," he told the audience.

To support that point of view, Daglow put forward a range of games that had shifted perspectives and proven influential in hindsight - games like Sim City, Guitar Hero, Geometry Wars and World of Warcraft.

The veteran developer - whose career has also encompassed spells at Intellivision, Broderbund and EA - devoted the early part of his session to examining the cyclical nature of console cycles. He spoke of the way developers' appreciation of the hardware matures each time, how certain types of game and certain types of consumer form noticeable patterns, and how people - developers, press and public - tend to react to consoles in distinct ways at each point.

"We've spent a quarter of a century saying 'the machine is holding me back'," he said to begin. "The only problem is that now the machines are so powerful, we've lost our excuse."

"So we've thought about this for a while as game designers - and decided we're going to blame the finance guys," he joked.

Echoing sentiments expressed in Julian Eggebrecht's keynote at the top of the event, he finished by imploring the developers in the audience, to whom he paid tribute, to continue pressing forward. "That search for next-gen is what inspires us to keep trying to change and create new things, has us seeking to dramatically change people's views of what this medium can do."

"As a game player, the one thing I want to ask you is never to give up," he said. "There is always a next-gen available tomorrow."

Picture of Tom.

About Tom Bramwell

Tom is Operations director of Eurogamer Network and Editor-at-Large of Eurogamer.net. He joined the company in February 2000.

Read more articles from Tom by visiting the Tom Bramwell archive page.

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Comments (72) Latest comment 5 years ago

Comments threads automatically close after 30 days, but please feel free to continue chatting on the forum!

  • Genji #1 5 years ago

    ...who cares what gen it's from?

  • Eighthours #2 5 years ago

    The Wii is new-gen, I'd say.

  • absolutezero #3 5 years ago

    shit storm

  • The-Bodybuilder #4 5 years ago

    /yawn

  • The-Bodybuilder #5 5 years ago

    How many people actually read the entire thing?

  • souljacker2000 #6 5 years ago

    I didnt i just wanted sumit to read towards the end of the day.... ill go back to reading health n safety regulations

  • BadBoyBonner #7 5 years ago

    Xmas day 2006 - playing Tennis and Bowling – stood up doing the actions - with all the family joining in, sure felt like a new generation of gaming to me.

    A gaming golden moment - seeing everyone I love enjoying the thing I have loved for so many years - they finally "got it".

    Maybe the Wii is the only next gen console, with the PS3 and 360 being graphical updates of the last system.

    Well done Nintendo.


  • afghan_jones #8 5 years ago

    cue lots of posts and abuse, culminating in angry fanboy ranting as hot salty tears stream down their angry red little faces.

  • ExplodingClown #9 5 years ago

    This article title is misleading! There I was thinking Nintendo had got into bed with the neo-Nazis.

  • LOLLERS #10 5 years ago

    next -gen is a marketing persons dream, they don't even have to try any more, they just say 'Buy this, it's NEXT-GEN' I've got a next gen razor so i'm not sure how the wii can compete with that anyway, the graphics are amazing plus it has 6 blades!!

  • afghan_jones #11 5 years ago

    @Lollers

    dont get me started on those fucking razors. By 2010 we will all be shaving using the new Gilette 69 which has 69 individual blades for the closest shave ever!.

    Fucking bollocks.

  • Steroyd #12 5 years ago

    New gen as mentioned before the actual games themselves haven't changed at all, the control method has.

  • SniperWolf #13 5 years ago

    Wii is current gen with 10 year old tech. I find it sad you can now buy a 360 for the same price as a Wii.

    Way to milk your userbase Nintendo, I read somewhere that it costs Nintendo 30 english pennies to make a Wii and bundle it with Wii sports...less than the price of a mars bar or a bag of maltesers planets.
    Edited by 1 at 20/08/07 @ 17:17

  • kangarootoo #14 5 years ago

    Next-gen is just a buzz word, but we as gamers are as much to blame.

    I lose track of the number of times I've read a comment stating that next-gen should be able to do all these amazing things at once at a high res with an amazing frame rate, hundreds of characters on screen and amazing AI.

    No one talks about cars in these terms. Maybe if there was 10+ different games consoles people wouldn't see these things as generations, but rather just individual iterations of individual products.

  • Ed6445 #15 5 years ago

    I'm really not convinced that the Wii is truly 'next-gen' (if anything is 'next-gen' anymore.) Ok, its got a innovative control system, but having played it quite a bit I can't say that its blown my mind. I think the fact that there's so few games which really use the controller (or wiimote/whatever) shows that Nintendo knows its got this great thing, but doesn't actually know what to do with it.

  • kangarootoo #16 5 years ago

    @SniperWolf

    "I read somewhere that it costs Nintendo 30 english pennies to make a Wii and bundle it with Wii sports"

    That was a subtle joke, right?

  • MaxiSleep #17 5 years ago

    The Wii is firmly last gen. The controller is nice when used well but the games themselves are not as engaging as (say) motorstorm or forza both of which on the right setup blow anything on the wii clean away as far as I am concerned.

    Unfortunately sony's complete droping of the ball price wise has allowed nintendo to prosper, which ultimately is a shame because it will allow Nintendo to rest on their laurels rather develop some actual good hardware.



  • kangarootoo #18 5 years ago

    @Ed6445

    I really think its just down to the games. I believe the console itself is everything Ninty said it would be, its just there are barely any decent games to take advantage of what the hardware can do.

  • afghan_jones #19 5 years ago

    @kanga

    agreed. For me the Wii is still all about potential. Potential on which it still has not delivered.

    as a gamer, this has to always be about the games. until the wii has a decent library of games to back up the hardware then it doesnt matter what gen it is, it isnt worth having.

    Same goes for PS3 at present, and also for the 360 in its first year. Whatever the hardware of any console is capable of doing, unless it can actually deliver on its capabilities through great games, then it is all irrelevant bullshit until it does.

  • Moz #20 5 years ago

    The bottom line for me is that on a 37" LCD TV the Wii looks shite!!! Whilst graphics aren't everything they could at least have made it HD.

    They spent alot of money on R&D and have a USP (the Wiimote) but I'm still not sure that it justifies costing as much as the 360 core, which has better graphics, better online features (for me online is a key point to this gen).

    Ninty might have to look at dropping the price of the Wii £100 before joe public realised that they are being ripped off

  • Totoriko #21 5 years ago

    Isn't it supposed to be Next-Next-Next Gen?

    Playstation/Saturn/N64/Jaguar/3DO were first Next Gen
    PS2/Dreamcast/Xbox/Gamecube were Second Next Gen

    Edited by 1 at 20/08/07 @ 17:49

  • The-Bodybuilder #22 5 years ago

    @ Totoriko

    You're missing quite a bit of videogame history there.

  • Steroyd #23 5 years ago

    Apparently consoles started in the PS era nevermind the pre-dated Nintendo era.

    I remember Nintendo made a big deal from the 8-bit nes to the 16bit Snes ah fond memories.

  • SniperWolf #24 5 years ago

    Next gen razors are cool, but have you seen those next gen tampons?. They tell you when it's time to buy a caffè espresso.

  • MasterControlProgram #25 5 years ago

    Well, to my knowledge Nintendo and ATI/AMD have not released anything more than vague details about Wii tech specs: so, it could even have a ternary-logic protein-based CPU beefed up by a photon driven GPU, but the discussion would be pointless all the same...

  • Artemis_Matsas #26 5 years ago

    Hardware wise, the Wii is indeed far behind the 360 and the PS3 there is no arguing that.
    The biggest innovation is the control method, the ease of use and the ability to fit even in the most crowded setups. I'm looking under my telly, and there's the PS2 and the PS3 along with my little unobtrusive Wii.
    I'm seriously thinking on getting a 360, but it's size still deters me (Yes i know that the PS3 is massive too, but i really wanted a good Blue Ray player for my HDTV).
    I didn't have any such reservations about the Wii. It was small, affordable and could play all my old GC games - sold.
    So, in it's own merits, it is next gen either you like it or not. (Although admitedly it doesn't look so hot on my TV).

  • PlugMonkey #27 5 years ago

    dont get me started on those fucking razors.

    Amen to that. In five years time they'll be the size of dinner plates.

    That said, the girlfriend was quite disappointed when she discovered my razor only has two blades so maybe the marketing isn't aimed at us...

  • septimus #28 5 years ago

    Just in, PS2 is Next-Genz!!!! It's just how you consider it!... Shit that means my calculator is next gen.

    /yawn

  • GamesConnoisseur #29 5 years ago

    Wii is a good gaming device, but the real question is can there be enough brilliant games that are going to be realised on Wii?

    [link url=http://www.metac ritic.com/games/wii/
    ]http://www.metac ritic.com/games/wii/
    [/link]

    You can see from the top 20 titles to the right, the average score are lot lower than other top 20 scores from other platforms (especially X360 and PS3).

    My concern is that far too much Wii titles would be quick blast and party games, also a quick way for publishers to make fast bucks. I am happy to have Wii for a few unmissable titles as wel as my back catalogue of GC, but it is indeed not using my HDTV to advantage, it can be so visually ugly.

    As an owner of all main platforms, Wii can be like a poor sibling never mind feeling like a next gen! But still looking forward to Metroid Prime, SM Galaxy, Resident Evil and NiGHTS. I only want to be reassured that Wii is not going to be a short term fad.

    So Nintendo need to pull up their sock or be prepared to release Wii version 2 in couple of years or less, with HD capabilities should Wii eventually be proven to be limited in what it can push the boundary for future games.

  • BartonFink #30 5 years ago

    Aye GameCube 1.5 with extra wiggle and waggle.

  • skybluesam86 #31 5 years ago

    It's current-gen now, is it not?
    Ditto PS3 and Xbox 360.

    How are they still being referred to as next-gen?

  • LOLLERS #32 5 years ago

    Gaming 2.0 is the real next-gen

  • BartonFink #33 5 years ago

    Yea PS3 and 360 are current gen Wii is last gen

  • Steroyd #34 5 years ago

    PS2 and Wii aren't dead yet can't exactly call the PS2 last gen because it's still relevant now.

  • dudefella #35 5 years ago

    For a second there, I thought Stormfront referred to the neonazis.

    "I aint no fag, but look here I move my arm and this here dude moves on screen! That's fuckin' amazing!"

  • DjFlex52 #36 5 years ago

    Xmas day 2006 - playing Tennis and Bowling – stood up doing the actions - with all the family joining in, sure felt like a new generation of gaming to me.

    A gaming golden moment - seeing everyone I love enjoying the thing I have loved for so many years - they finally "got it".

    @BadBoyBonner

    so you must have enjoyed Tennis and Bowling for years then, right?...cause I surely can't say WiiSports is the culmination of my many years as a gamer. They didn't "get it"...they got what Nintendo served "a watered down casual gaming next gen console. Can't your family just get together on Christmas and play charades, cards or board games?

  • Carrybagma #37 5 years ago

    /bonk

  • wizbob #38 5 years ago

    Yes Mr. D.J. Flex 53; it's just like a board game except it happens on a computer!
    Edited by 2 at 20/08/07 @ 20:58

  • Feanor #39 5 years ago

    Why are so many people still calling consoles that have been out for months "next" gen. It's gotten beyond tiresome.
    Edited by 1 at 20/08/07 @ 21:04

  • Aria #40 5 years ago

    Let me introduce Secombe and Smelly who will be joining us shortly! I'm sure they'll both have a lot to take off their chests! :p

  • smelly #41 5 years ago

    Why thank you.. Although i have nothing to say as i agree with him.

    Millions of 360 fangirls are about to come on and tell us he's talking crap though

  • DjFlex52 #42 5 years ago

    "Why are so many people still calling consoles that have been out for months "next" gen. It's gotten beyond tiresome."

    @Feanor

    IMHO, it's still next gen until last gen becomes somewhat retro which the PS2 is definitely NOT. You must have gotten tired for 5 game generations then :)

    "Yes Mr. D.J. Flex 53; it's just like a board game except it happens on a computer!"

    @wizbob

    aha!....so the Wii is a computer too? I gotta buy one then.

  • The_Inquisitor #43 5 years ago

    Are people still debating what 'next-gen' warrants? Does everything need to be labelled or part of an exclusive club before it is taken seriously?

  • BadBoyBonner #44 5 years ago

    DjFlex52

    "so you must have enjoyed Tennis and Bowling for years then, right?...cause I surely can't say WiiSports is the culmination of my many years as a gamer. They didn't "get it"...they got what Nintendo served "a watered down casual gaming next gen console. Can't your family just get together on Christmas and play charades, cards or board games?"

    You seem to have missed the point, perhaps on purpose.

    Xmas 2006 was less than 12 months ago, certainly not years ago.

    Unless, your saying have I enjoyed electronic tennis for years? The answer to that is yes, with the first Gameboy version, Super Tennis on Snes, Mario Tennis on N64, and the Virtua Tennis 1&2 games on Dreamcast.

    Not once did a single family member show any desire to join in and play any of the above.

    They got what Nintendo served "a watered down casual gaming next gen console".

    No they did not, they got exactly what they wanted, as the hardware sales display with absolute authority.

    The bravery Nintendo have shown with the DS and Wii - is almost untouched by Sony or MS - arguably only the EyeToy comes close to Nintendo's maverick style.

    And just so I am not open to your interpretation.

    1) Anyone who has played the above tennis games for years, knows exactly how exhilarating it was the first few games of Wii Tennis felt.

    2) The device Nintendo has created allows the widest variety of skill levels for all to play and enjoy playing with each other.

    My Gran will never challenge me to a game of Counterstrike, but she loved having a go at tennis and bowling (and eventually PGR3 with the force feedback wheel).

    And I think the PGR3 statement is the key. Nintendo realise that all humans like to play, it's providing a mechanism that allows enjoyable play that separates the Wii.

    The wheel is something she can relate to, holding a pad like a racket is something she can relate to, writing with a stylus is something she can relate to.

    Do I play on my Wii more than my 360? No.

    But , when friends and family come round they all want play Wii not 360.

    Will Wii suddenly generate an upsurge in software sales? Not really I do not think.

    I think the attach rate for Wii will be quite low as I guess a lot of the people who buy it, that are not gamers, will be quite happy with the pack in game, as it was the only reason they bought it.

    Much rests on Metroid and Mario. Can the Wii pull off a genre leading game on the system? We'll find out very shortly in Metroid's case, and EG semed to like SMG.

    As for the last part of your comment.

    “Can't your family just get together on Christmas and play charades, cards or board games?"

    First your making an assumption that that hasn’t already happened is wrong. Second, everyone likes to try something new in my family and so we did, and I loved the shared experience.




    Edited by 2 at 21/08/07 @ 00:06

  • samadriel #45 5 years ago

    Der Vii vill last ein Tausend years!

  • miiiguel #46 5 years ago

    It must suck to be a Wii aficionado, you got keep saying it's cool, and it's not girlish, and it doesn't have the same games Mario XXXIV and shit...

    Personally I think Wii is a great system for people who aren't into games, on the other hand I'm not one of those.
    Edited by 1 at 20/08/07 @ 23:51

  • DjFlex52 #47 5 years ago

    wow...sorry I hit that nerve with such force, BadBoyBonner

    did you leave anything still on your mind?

    "The wheel is something she can relate to, holding a pad like a racket is something she can relate to, writing with a stylus is something she can relate to."

    @BadBoyBonner

    but pressing buttons like that of a remote, cell phone, calculator (and their buttons are even smaller than a gamepad) etc is just too complicated and all non gamers can't relate to it...uh huh
    Edited by 1 at 21/08/07 @ 00:09

  • smelly #48 5 years ago

    @ miiiguel

    It must suck to be an 'anti wii' Wii person.. As you have to dismiss a new mario game as "being more of the same" when each main mario game has been so different.. while praising halo 3 - which is more of the same with prettier pixels.

    Personally I think Wii is a great system for people who ARE into games, such as me. And not just for people who just like pretty pixels in their same games over and over again.

    Obviously it's a shame games have been thin on the ground. But after metroid/smash bros/batallion wars/mario gets released.. as long as they're as good as im hoping they'll be - then i wont need to play any other games.. That'll be more than enough to make me happy about my purchase.

    Who needs other games when you have those 4?

    Edited by 1 at 21/08/07 @ 00:38

  • BadBoyBonner #49 5 years ago

    You haven't hit a nerve, no need to apologise. For me, ya can can't beat a bit of banter with people with passion for games, always happy to have a "chat" about something ;-)

    “but pressing buttons like that of a remote, cell phone, calculator (and their buttons are even smaller than a gamepad) etc is just too complicated and all non gamers can't relate to it...uh huh ”

    It is not that they can not relate to the actions you have described or they do not have the capacity to figure them out.

    It is that, if they can not relate to them instinctively, they can not be bothered to work them out. It makes no sense to them.

    I love Crackdown for instance, but the controls that feel lovely to me, are completely alien to “non gamers”; seeming more like an esoteric control scheme for a virtual difficult to control robot, rather than feeling at one.

    Years of training in the art of abstract controls makes everything seem second nature to us [gamers].

    For most other people it is not the case, Wii has bridged that gap, and subsequently gone on to sales levels even Nintendo never predicted, hence the supply issues.

  • miiiguel #50 5 years ago

    @ smelly: I didn't express my self correctly perhaps, I'm not anti-Wii, why should I be? I said it must suck for the people "who are into games" to prefer the Wii from the 3 choices available. I hear all the time, here and some other places, those kinda people (our kinda people ?) saying all the time "oh it's not just party games!, we have Marioooo", "no, no, it's not too awkward to wave our arms"... and stuff, just a bit like 360ers say "no it's not just brainless American shooters", and PS3'ers "we will have games someday, you'll see!".

    Although about the last part I do believe this system is targeted to non-gamers and it succeeds there, so that you bet those don't give a shit if some (that's me...), say the system is for non-games, as they are non-gamers.

    But that is the thing so far, and things change. 360 is getting more diversification; devs are now looking differently to the Wii; and PS3 hopefully will get some games.
    Edited by 1 at 21/08/07 @ 00:47

  • BadBoyBonner #51 5 years ago

    DjFlex52

    P.S. Forgot to add

    "but pressing buttons like that of a remote,"

    The very reason the Wiimote looks as it does is to make it look like a TV remote, which everyone is happy to pick up and use (can't be arsed to look through Edge back catalogue to find the quote! lol)

  • miiiguel #52 5 years ago

    All in all I think pointing the bad aspect of a system sometimes brings good things. I bet if it wasn't for the "360 is just shooters" line we would be playing "Tom Clancy vs The Spiders from Mars". Sony wouldn't come to the press anouncing some good looking games, and this dude wouldn't come to say these things, and hopefully do something about it.

  • DjFlex52 #53 5 years ago

    You haven't hit a nerve, no need to apologise. For me, ya can can't beat a bit of banter with people with passion for games, always happy to have a "chat" about something ;-)

    glad you said passion for games....not just game systems
    The only problem I have with the Wiimote is that traditional games take a backseat at times but that's why we have 3 consoles to play with.

    your arguments/points are processed...'nuff said ;-)

  • Vandrius #54 5 years ago

    @ LOLLERS et al on Razors...

    Sure, some of the new ones are a bit iffy with their 170 rotating blades of super-close shaving...

    But go back and try and use a bargain brand plastic razor one day, and as you mop up the blood you'll realise that razors are better now :-P

  • afghan_jones #55 5 years ago

    @smelly

    1. halo 3 actually has quite a raft of new features, mainly the 4 player co-op, the FORGE level creator and the movie studio, which are all features that are new to this iteration and crop up rarely in FPSs. SO it isnt just the same but with more pixels.

    2. given the amount of time spent jizzing over mario for being better looking than most HD games I hardly think you can really slate other games for having improved graphics.

    3. If you are really happy with only 4 games, well i hope they turn out to be good.

    Really, I think Badboybonner has already laid out very well why wii has done so well. In terms of whether it it next gen or not, who really cares? As long as people are still enjoying and buying it its 'current-gen' same as 360 & PS3 as far as im concerned. The challenge for Nintendo is twofold now. Firstly can they deliver high quality titles using the Wiimote that will appeal to the traditional gamer? Secondly, can they continue to find ways to use the wiimote to make games that will make casual gamers increase their attach rate?

  • Charroux #56 5 years ago

    /sees the same old "nexxt jen lolz" shite
    /reads the "wii == 1.5 Gamecewbz lulz" crap
    /notes the "wii only gud for non-gamerz" bullshit

    /shoots self

  • Sebo #57 5 years ago

    Zelda, Mario, Nights, Smash Bros, Metroid, Resident Evil, Soul Caliber, Wii has enough to be classed as a proper games machine rather than just a party machine.

    But is there anyone on here who has a Wii and no other current gen console?

    I'd personally find it very difficult to miss out on Bioshock, Metal Gear 4, Halo 3, Resident Evil 5, Grand Theft Auto 4.

  • evilboo #58 5 years ago

    I think the metacritic listings for Wii and PS3 are pretty depressing for the heralders of the so-called 'next gen' and owners of those consoles (including me). Although the 360 has better games at this stage, I think the glossy shooters etc don't amount to a step change either - except maybe bioshock.

    The most 'next gen' game I recall playing recently was Shadow of the Collossus on the ancient PS2. People are still talking about the hardware because there's been such a failure of imagination with the software maybe.

  • Sebo #59 5 years ago

    Woah, evilboo, very good post.

    I too have yet to feel truly stirred by this generation

  • erp #60 5 years ago

    who are stormfront?

  • LOLLERS #61 5 years ago

    "But go back and try and use a bargain brand plastic razor one day, and as you mop up the blood you'll realise that razors are better now :-P "

    Depends how you define better really doesn't it... Some people would say that a cut-throat is better, some people would say going the barbers to get it done properly is better, some people think buying a new razor every 18 months is better...

    This argument is RETARDED.

  • mostly_harmless #62 5 years ago

    My Nokia N70 died the other day (well, the screen went mentally unusable), so I popped the sim into an aged old 3310 from 2001 or something. And you know what? The 3310 is next gen! Far superior battery life, much more responsive firmware, and it's even smaller than the N70!

    Anyway the Wii is clearly next-next gen. No other console has yet achieved such a perfectly toned blue light.

    Saying that though, the 360's perchant for self-destruction might be a semi-self-referential comment by Microsoft on the transitory nature of technology, making it a kind of postmodern-mass-art-installation console, and therefore next-next-next-gen.

    Meanwhile, one could consider the PS3's sheer bulk to be the first part of a backlash against the 'make it small, make it thin' design aesthetic usually associated with consumer technology, thereby making it trully next-next-next-post-transience-gen.

    Marketing is a polite way of saying bollocks.



  • miiiguel #63 5 years ago

    evilboo: "except Bioschock"..., mates I've been hearing these "exceptions" since 360 launch day, there's allways exceptions:
    Just shooters, except perhaps PGR3
    Just shooters, except perhaps Oblivion
    Just shooters, except perhaps Dead Rising
    Just shooters, except perhaps Burnout: Revenge
    Just shooters, except perhaps Rockstar Table Tennis
    Just shooters, except perhaps Viva Piñata
    Just shooters, except perhaps Guitar Hero II
    Just shooters, except perhaps DiRT
    Just shooters, except perhaps Overlord
    ...

    Next week we'll have a good few exceptions.

    Edited by 1 at 21/08/07 @ 10:25

  • evilboo #64 5 years ago

    Miiiguel I haven't played all of those games, but those I have didn't blow me away 'next gen wise'. I spent days in a poorly lit room 'living another life' in Oblivion, but I don't feel the experience was massively different from Morrowind. Dead Rising was impressive in terms of numbers and scale but personally it didn't feel that different to other zombie killathons I've enjoyed over the years.

    I'm not saying they are bad games - they might even be great games - I'm just not sure where the great departure is. As I say, I haven't played most of the others so my argument may be flawed here.

  • figaro7 #65 5 years ago

    As an owner of both a 360 and wii i can safely say these consoles are both next gen in every possible way. One has outstanding graphics, the other has gameplay that we could only dream of. Ill play the 360 thinking how much better the game could be if it used the wiimote, ill play the wii thinking how much better the game could be with some HD graphics and awesome AI. But in the end, if the games good who gives a shit! A good game will always be a good game, no matter which system its on!

  • warthog2k #66 5 years ago

    "halo 3 actually has quite a raft of new features, mainly the 4 player co-op, the FORGE level creator and the movie studio, which are all features that are new to this iteration and crop up rarely in FPSs. SO it isnt just the same but with more pixels."

    4-player Co-op? Gauntlet. Doom.
    Level Editor? Hmm... Lode Runner & Arkanoid on the Speccy both contained level editors. If it's FPS you're after - Doom again?
    Movie Studio - Quake. Not bundled, but I've made my fair share of Quake movies.

    Probably not the earliest examples of each, just the earliest I could remember off the top of me 'ead.

    Next gen? Don't care.

    Fun - yes.

    Next Gen seems to be interpreted as bigger faster shinier epeen-flexing. In the race for shininess the gameplay has barely evolved.

    Mass Broadband uptake, Wiimotes, Facebook, 'Game2.0' - these are the seeds from which "next gen" gaming will emerge.

  • afghan_jones #67 5 years ago

    @warthog2k

    I wasnt saying they were totally new in every way, it was more in response to smelly saying that halo 3 was simply another iteration with better graphics. From the sounds of it, the way in which the FORGE editor can be used in game does sound new (whether its good or not remains to be seen)

    For me, the big change this gen has been the full integration of LIVE. downloading demos, videos & XBLA games, being in contact with your friends list, setting up online co-op & multiplayer matches quickly and easily, for me that has been the biggest shift probably moreso than graphics. (although deep down, we all love to ooh and ahh at the latest screens of forthcoming HD blockbusters)

  • zehoo #68 5 years ago

    I own a wii, it sits in my living room plugged into my 1080p 60" tv and all I have to say is....



    it's not next gen.

  • smoison #69 5 years ago

    My only consol is a Wii.

    I have a kick ass PC for the shooters too.

    Wii is the best consol I've had since the PS1/N64 and is as next gen as it gets.

    Until the next gen of course....
    Edited by 1 at 21/08/07 @ 12:35

  • warthog2k #70 5 years ago

    @afghan_jones - Fairymuff. Wasn't having a go (and I generally agree with most of what you say on Eurogamer). Just trying to make the point that the whole next-gen argument is being misunderstood.

    I agree with you on the whole LIVE thing (though being forced to pay for it grates slightly). It's the best thing to happen to gaming in a long time. The features mentioned in the Crackdown previews where HiScores from people on your buddy list would appear in your game world made me giggle with glee. This is where I'm going with all the babbling on about broadband / facebook / etc. And it's still in it's infancy at the moment.

    That's next gen gaming. Not shinier gfx.
    Too many reviews & comments that want to know about rendering engines, mobo configs, ram requirements, 1080i/p, whatever - what about the experience?

    We're still playing Gauntlet / Dragon's Lair / Doom / Chequered Flag - the majority of new games are 'old games' just a little shinier or remixed. Next Gen hasn't happened yet!

  • Yodamanu #71 5 years ago

    Quote: "examining the cyclical nature of console cycles"

    I want the same job, I'm already an expert in investigating the logical nature of logics.

  • afghan_jones #72 5 years ago

    @warthog2k,

    exactly, the whole 'gen' thing as far as im concerned is just a way of easily bracketing the various hardware iterations.

    It doesnt mean anything more. Wii is 'next-gen' because it is part of the current hardware offering from the big 3. Its actual power is an irrelevancy in this sense.