StarCraft II

The new adventures of old faithful.

StarCraft II is fast. Really, really fast. But lead designer Dustin Browder talks faster. The bald-headed, sharp-eyed veteran of Command & Conquer titles, hired in by Blizzard to take command of this sequel to its decade-old real-time strategy warhorse, jumps into questions halfway through and peppers you with rattling bursts of ideas and arguments. It's like he's involved in a constant game of StarCraft II in his head, where precision, pre-emption, and speed of execution are absolutely everything.

Blizzard gathered press at its California HQ this week to reveal the Zerg, the last of the classic trinity of races from the 1998 original. With all three races in place, there was also the first chance to try out the essential core of the game: blisteringly quick multiplayer matches between the dogged Terrans, hi-tech Protoss and the mutating bio-weapons of the Zerg. Although more than half the units in the game are new, that core - from interface to perspective to mechanics to, most importantly, speed - remains virtually unchanged from the one that birthed one of the longest-lasting multiplayer communities, and most active eSports scenes, that gaming has ever seen. Whether building bases and armies, or micro-managing units in battle, in StarCraft II the fastest mouse always wins.

Weren't they ever tempted to slow it down a bit? "No! Not StarCraft," says Browder. "There's something to be said for that kind of fun. You know it's just, 'Gogogo! Oh I lost. Gogogogogo! Oh I won! Gogogogo.' And then you just play again and again. I think that was a kind of fun that we wanted to create again, that the team wanted to do, and it's certainly the kind of RTS that I prefer."

Lead producer Chris Sigaty - the laid-back, long-haired yin to Browder's yang - reinforces the point: Blizzard at no point considered reinventing this particular wheel. "One of the things we hear is, what's the new big thing you're bringing to reinvent RTS? And I'm like, well, we're not," he states flatly.

'StarCraft II' Screenshot 1

The flying Terrans attack the girly Protoss. Oli didn't do these captions - he had to dash to the airport - so they will be rubbish and uninformed.

"We made a conscious decision not to... One of the things that played into our decision was just how popular the original game still is. Had it been different, had it spiked up and sold well and then disappeared... maybe putting first-person elements might have been something that we'd considered. But we never considered that. Stay true to the original; stick with the original three races; make them more diverse."

True to the original it certainly is. Familiarity is instant to anyone who's played StarCraft, and to some extent Warcraft III: the screen layout, the tight camera that apes the original's isometric display, the slight sense of claustrophobia and panic, the simple but effective unit designs, the tendency away from methodical empire-building and towards sudden, heart-in-mouth raids, and of course the seemingly limitless capacity for micro-management that allows the 300-actions-per-minute Korean pro-gamers to manipulate vast armies on several fronts on an almost unit-by-unit basis.

It's both intoxicating and intimidating. There's certainly an adrenalised rush to it - and the astonishingly vivid, distinctive and beautifully animated new visuals are a powerful draw. But playing against seasoned StarCraft campaigners leaves you with no time to even begin to explore the expanded possibilities of StarCraft II's more involved research and tech trees. Perhaps it's just that no-one is fully familiar with the new set-up, but deep-seated patterns seem to reassert themselves very quickly. It's a pitfall Browder is aware of, and he's working to avoid it, in part through more sophisticated map design: line of sight barriers, placing high-yield minerals behind walls of rocks that take protracted and concentrated fire to take down, and so on.

It's a testament to the powerful personalities of StarCraft II's unit designs that any discussion of the new game is endlessly, inexorably drawn to them, despite their simplicity. The Zerg Queen, one-off base defender with several abilities and the potential to grow to larger size, is the new star, alongside the giant (now slightly less giant) Protoss mothership that Blizzard revealed early last year. These have some of the long-term potency and complexity of Warcraft III's quasi-RPG Hero units, but fundamentally, says Browder, the game is too fast to support massive unit depth.

However, the sheer number and creative breadth of those units, and the cascading, cumulative decisions you make when building and upgrading your force on each map, still lends StarCraft II's three races a strong sense of individualism. The Terrans have undergone the most sweeping changes, he says. "The Terrans used to be very methodical in their approach; you build bunkers, you build siege tanks, you advance. You consume the map. Terrans now have Vikings, they have Banshees, they have Reapers, they have dropships that heal people, they're like Terran air cavalry now, you never know where they're going to be next. That's a very different strategic approach."

But we're here to see the Zerg, the race of kamikaze mutant bio-weapons that to a large extent defined the original StarCraft, with their involved expansion system, tunnelling ability and hell-bent charges with overwhelming numbers of cannon-fodder. Despite the addition of some striking new units - especially the Corruptors and Infestors that turn the enemy's air units and bases against it - it hasn't had such a major overhaul, for fear of losing that distinctive personality.

"Dustin says, which is totally true: on paper, in the original StarCraft, Zerg shouldn't even be in the game," says Sigaty. "They're too weird, they're too complex, you have to select the hatchery then select the larvae then morph units, and it doesn't work anything like the others. On paper it's really confusing and weird, but it worked."

'StarCraft II' Screenshot 2

Here we see some Zerg going upside some Terran heads.

"I think it still stands out," agrees Browder. "People still call it 'zerging' in WOW when you rush a base in Alterac Valley. It's important that we get it right and that they still speak to some of the core mechanics. So we kept the larvae, and we kept the speed, they're still the fastest race out there just in a footrace. That's been very important to us." He reluctantly admits to the Zerg being his personal favourite, at least in the first game. "I guess in the original I probably favoured Zerg. Just because I like playing the monsters. You know, power to the Horde, and all that."

As much as the game's races dominate the attention, if StarCraft has an unsung hero, he says, it's the maps. "Map design absolutely controls how fun this game is. More so, in some ways, than the units and the structures. Even without the map mechanics we've added... you can make a game that's no fun for two out of the three races right away just by bad map design. I would say right now, out of the 15 or 16 maps we currently have in the game, there's about four or five, maybe six, that are actually kind of fun. The rest are not so great."

A perfect example of Blizzard's legendary perfectionism, there. Although the game is already extremely polished and playable - and has been since BlizzCon last year - there is clearly still a mountain to climb before it can meet the studio's endlessly high expectations of itself. Holding your breath for a release date announcement is only slightly less inadvisable than holding your breath for the release itself.

Another indication that StarCraft II is still some way off: there is a lot about the game that's still under wraps. The game's basis - the units, the races, the unmistakeable multiplayer - has now been laid bare, and there is nothing in it to shock or perturb fans, or even surprise them much. On the face of it, StarCraft II seems to be preaching to the converted and ignoring the rest. But to think that would be to underestimate Blizzard, and to ignore the huge gaps in what's been said and shown.

Firstly, the single-player campaign, of which there was a tantalising glimpse at BlizzCon last year, but which is still shrouded in mystery. An elaborate and gorgeous front-end was demonstrated, showing Terran characters aboard their flagship, and we were promised a non-linear storyline, dialogue trees, and flexible tech development. It seemed a fascinating introduction of elements from the likes of Bioware RPGs and even point-and-click adventures to this otherwise straight-down-the-line action RTS, but there's no word on how the non-linear storytelling will work, or how the Protoss and Zerg races will factor into it. Sigaty is tight-lipped, but says it's intended to satisfy those who are disappointed by the lack of change in the game's core mechanics.

"It's definitely a departure and it was a conscious decision to make single-player very different from what we'd done before. Really the main reason is, because of what we're deciding to do with the core multiplayer game, let's innovate and be different in the single-player campaign."

Yet more significant, and more secret, are the plans for the revamped Battle.net multiplayer portal that will launch alongside StarCraft II. Blizzard has been hinting from the start that it has big plans for this, centred on a push to bring the game's tremendous pro-gaming success in Korea to a wider, worldwide audience.

'StarCraft II' Screenshot 3

My money's on the floaty brain things.

"We're not really prepared to talk about the specifics of Battle.net right now," stonewalls Sigaty - but then he relents a little. "Three things - the core multiplayer game and Battle.net ultimately being the glue of that, combined with our interest in the multiplayer community and general, and then eSports - those are the things that we'll be focusing on in Battle.net. In a few months you'll have specific information on what that means, but certainly you can start to draw conclusions about how we're going to bring eSports to people that aren't even aware that it exists." He specifically mentions "the new level of gamer" - the Guitar Hero-loving, semi-casual player.

StarCraft is in many ways the ultimate hardcore RTS, so the idea of bringing it - and not just the game itself, but the bewildering, physically staggering world of high-end professional StarCraft II competition - to the masses seems far-fetched. Or does it? StarCraft is a nationally popular sport with TV coverage in South Korea, after all. Would a slick gaming social network, loaded with stats analysis, news, player profiles, a good spectator mode and broadcasts of high-level matches change things for the rest of the world? It might. Only time will tell if that's what Blizzard has in store, but it's worth remembering that this company doesn't do things by halves - and thanks to World of Warcraft, it now has more experience in social gaming than practically anyone.

Blizzard fully intends to have and eat its cake with StarCraft II. It's already clear from our hands-on session that it's making a finely-tuned, exciting, but fundamentally conservative new version of an established classic, playing firmly into the hands of its rabid fanbase. But it also has sweeping, strategically interesting plans for the single-player campaign and Battle.net portal that mean this staunchly traditional game could still shake things up. Without knowing those plans in detail, it's impossible to say whether it will achieve that, but going by Blizzard's track record, only a fool would bet against it.

If you want to see more of the game in action, check out our exclusive gameplay edit over on EGTV now.

Comments (63) Latest comment 4 years ago

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  • speed182 #1 4 years ago

    Really looking forward to this.
  • Squire #2 4 years ago

    GOTY on hype alone, I'm sure
  • thewolfiv #3 4 years ago

    i've never played the original, is it better the COH?
  • anomagnus #4 4 years ago

    kinda looking forward to it, but......

    i've got a little part of me hoping blizzard will fail. It wont happen, i know, but something about them is REALLY starting to grate on me at the moment.

    Anyway, roll on DOW2
  • konnsky #5 4 years ago

    OMG ZERG RUSH KEKEKE

    another couple of deaths in South Korea confirmed then
  • Evolution #6 4 years ago

    They aren't using the same voice actors for major characters. Minor point to a surely superb game, but one that annoys me greatly.
  • Krusty #7 4 years ago

    Never played the original either.... took me a while to really get into RTS

    Sounds fun, although any noobs are going to die extremely quickly by the sounds of it.
  • mingster #8 4 years ago

    /wants badly

    still no news on release date though guesses xmas this year.
  • GordonCaladan #9 4 years ago

    Wow 10 yrs ago already is it? kkk looking forward to this alright.
  • UncleLou #10 4 years ago

    I want this. A lot.

    Great to hear they won't neglect the single-player camopaign,too.
  • figgis #11 4 years ago

    Sounds exactly like the first game, hopefully unit control will be easier. Although I loved the first one this sounds dull, still Blizzard usually come up with the goods.
  • gmjapan #12 4 years ago

    reading the previews and watching the vids around it looks and sounds just like the original... what a waste. Starcraft was so incredibly well received and evolved. Seems like they are making a Starcraft 1.5 not SC2.

  • Nill #13 4 years ago

    i've never played the original, is it better the COH?

    In a word: yes. It's perfection, or at least as close as anyone has got.

    CoH on the other hand is far from perfect, just have a look at the latest balance-patch coming out soon (2.300) - it's frickin' huge! And that's setting aside all bugs, connection-problems, frequent server-crashes, lacking features etc - but I don't think those necessarily affect how good the game is at its basic level, which is still brilliant.

    CoH plays entirely different from Starcraft though; there's definitely room for loving both of them, but in different ways.
  • ProtoformX #14 4 years ago

    I hope Blizzard use some kind of ranking system like Xbox Live's for Battle.net. I wasn't able to take the original online 10 years ago as I didn't have my own internet connection then so I'd love to take this online but without getting my ass kicked multiple times the minute I log in.
    Seriously looking forward to the single-player though. The storyline of the original Starcraft is one of the best I've played through. Even more so having read the mini novel at the start of the manual. Better start saving for a new computer though.
  • JonFE #15 4 years ago

    I look forward this and will purchase on release, especially if there's a WarCraft III-style limited edition in the works :)
  • Dagdriver #16 4 years ago

    Frankly I have come to know Blizzard games as solid, polished craftwork - but allmost completely without any appeal to me.
    Allthough the first Starcraft felt like well produced polished quality, It totally failed to catch any kind of interrest from me.

    A second Starcraft will - no matter how much hype generated - will NEVER get any of my money.

    I would rather play something like COH any day than this....

  • Kremlik Verified Co-Founder, Crash To Desktop #17 4 years ago

    The root problem with it is the orginal developers have now all but gone from Blizzard, and these new ones are too scared to upset the SC fanbase for the looks of the oringinal interviews they are going for the 'why change what isn't broken' excuse. However this will shoot them in the foot as the current fanbase now are ethier the tourament playing ones who will buy it in the end or the now CoH/DoW fans who may not..

    C&C3 tried to break into the market with the 'old school' ways but with new multiplayer aspects such as the live feed gaming, but it's not been a massive hit as it should have been as the system is bland now, what DoW/CoH and a few others have done is add a level of customisation to units either on the fly or between matches and allowed players to play the same races and units multiple ways and how they play. What C&C3 and from the looks of SC2 are doing is giving you a semi-rigid rock/paper/sicor units and lots of them which is good up until a point, but it's no where near as flexible to what this gen of gaming is used to, this is really the case of 'less is more', I think it's to the stage now it's more about the level of customisation per unit we want more then the number.

    If SC2 wants to sell '#1' well it'll be on marketing and hype, not the game itself, as the game from looks is just too far stuck in the 'old school' ways, even Wrath of Kain proves you do have to move with the times.
    Edited by 1 at 13/03/08 @ 16:41
  • smoison #18 4 years ago

    Since the steaming pile of crap that is C&C3 sold well, I have no doubt this will do much better.

    I am kind of glad they did not try to remake everything, Warcraft changed soo much I really didi not like it.

    Looks very nice, and I can't wait to get back into the StarCraft Universe.


  • SpeedyThing #19 4 years ago

    Although I haven't been excited by any of the previews so far, Blizzard games have a habit of surprising me when I buy them. With the exception of WOW (which I eagerly awaited years before its release) I have bought all the major Blizzard games largely because there was nothing else out. And then, you realise that games don't have to be innovative to be great.

    Blizzard's ability (and time and money) to polish an otherwise stale genre is second-to-none. You play them thinking "I've seen this all before", but before you know it you're hooked and awaiting the inevitable expansion pack.

    I have few doubts that this will be the same, only this time I'll buy it without looking at the back of the box.

  • George-Roper #20 4 years ago

    Conservative.

    The word that sums StarCraft 2 up.

    They're playing it very, very, very safe. It's simply going to be a flashier version of Starcraft 1. That might be enough for the legions of rabid fanboys but i'll still be looking in Relics corner. True innovators of the RTS genre.
  • FWB #21 4 years ago

    CoH wipes the floor with SC. The latter is quick fire and limited in scope, but I can see why that attracts people. CoH has so much going for it I don't know where I'd start.

    but i'll still be looking in Relics corner. True innovators of the RTS genre.

    Totally. SC2 looks retro next their games.
    Edited by 1 at 13/03/08 @ 19:06
  • Melan #22 4 years ago

    its OK by me to play a shiny version og starcraft 1. (which is still on my computer)

    I have high hopes in blizzards ability to craft (get it ;) ) a superb story.

    They can take their time. Get i perfect, and then get i out.
    Its not like it is the only game in the world.
  • Lim-Dul #23 4 years ago

    Yeah, I think that Blizzard played it too safe with SC2 by the looks of it. There were times when Blizzard was pusing the envelope in certain areas, nowadays they seem to be only cashing-in on their brands because they know they could sell crap on a stick and if it was called "SomethingCraft" it'd still sell millions of copies...

    I don't doubt that SC2 will be polished, awesomely balanced etc. but I don't see how it contributes to the development of the RTS genre - except for the technological advancements it seems to be stuck in 1998 gameplay-wise...

    P.S. I found it funny where in one of the videos the commentator noted that "StarCraft is still a game of epic battles between huge armies" or sth. along this line. No, sir, StarCraft and any other *Craft never was about epic battles - Total Annihilation or Supreme Commander are - the *Craft series are more about medium-sized battles with a strong tactical element and a weaker strategic element, although not AS tactical as e.g.CoH.
    Edited by 1 at 13/03/08 @ 20:57
  • TexMurphy01 #24 4 years ago

    They actually have evolved to the point where they shit money. At least it will be as polished as can be.
  • Jigglybean #25 4 years ago

    Yawn....looks like nothing new at all but will no doubt score well because its Blizzard. The masters of polishing t**ds
  • Zaelsius #26 4 years ago

    Oh, the greatness of the ignore button..! [click, click]

    Now, whoever is saying Blizzard is being conservative.. well you can all go back to your "innovative" yearly EA and Ubisoft franchises. C&C is so refreshing.. heck, even Supreme Commander wasn't that revolutionary, basically a TA in steroids that requires a monster of a PC to play smoothly on today's 20"+ LCDs.

    StarCraft 2 is everything StarCraft fans wish and I'm sure Blizzard will deliver. Moreover, when it finally gets released, it will run just fine on real midrange computers, like all titles by Blizzard have in the past, not to mention a Mac version from day one.
  • Lim-Dul #27 4 years ago

    Oh, the greatness of the ignore button..! [click, click]

    Oh yeah - I love people who can't stand constructive criticism but have to have the last word anyway. ;-)

    By the way: who said that you have to look for innovation in EA's or Ubisoft's franchises? 0_o

    Just because others follow the same bad practice doesn't mean that Blizzard should be suddenly excused for jumping on the bandwagon.

    StarCraft 2 is everything StarCraft fans wish

    Yeah, you said it - it'd be nice if it was everything RTS fans in general could wish for...

    even Supreme Commander wasn't that revolutionary, basically a TA in steroids that requires a monster of a PC to play smoothly on today's 20"+ LCDs.

    Yep - and since 1997 there was no other game like Total Annihilation whereas there were dozens of games like the *Craft series. Besides - what do performance issues have to do with a game being innovative? Supreme Commander is the first RTS to introduce seamless zooming up to a global level and completely to-scale-units and only the second RTS after TA to sport battles on a MASSIVE scale. I don't see SC2 introducing ANYTHING new except for some "gimmicks".
  • Zaelsius #28 4 years ago

  • Lim-Dul #29 4 years ago

    they made a name for themselves by taking someone elses good idea and making a solid game experience around it.

    Which is basically the same thing Microsoft is doing but everybody hates Microsoft while loving Blizzard? ;-)

    The main accomplishment of Blizzard was the creation of Battle.net. They managed to precisely hit the period where access to the internet became more and more widespread and after that they were basically done. =)

    I'm also not sure if there was any ONLINE real-time dungeon crawler before Diablo... They elevated the idea of dungeon crawling to the next level. =)
  • CouldntResist #30 4 years ago

    Noone has made another RTS like Starcraft since Starcraft.

    The core mechanics of the game may not have moved on since the original, but in that time, i've not seen any RTS that has the same frenetic pace and finely balanced races as Starcraft. To say that since it does nothing new, it must be bad, is just plain wrong. Certainly, games like DOW and COH have taken the genre to new places, but please don't equate that to taking the genre forward.

    There will ALWAYS be a niche for games like Starcraft, and frankly speaking as a veteran RTS gamer, multiplayer in the DOW/COH simply does not compare to the huge cope for tactics found in competitive SC games, where every game is played differently, where thinking and adapting on the fly is crucial, and where new strategies are constantly being developed.

    Anyway, am really looking forward to this. May have to quit my job and become a progamer :)...ah who am i kidding, the gf would kill me.
    Edited by 1 at 14/03/08 @ 02:37
  • Genji #31 4 years ago

    "Whether building bases and armies, or micro-managing units in battle, in StarCraft II the fastest mouse always wins."

    Ah. Looks like I won't be buying this one, then. I like having time to make decisions.
  • Scimarad #32 4 years ago

    I agree with Genji - I think I prefer a somewhat slower style to my strategy games.
  • Genji #33 4 years ago

    I'm sure Blizzard doesn't really care whether they get my money or not. Hell, they could make this Korea-only and still absolutely rake in the moolah.
  • George-Roper #34 4 years ago

    @CouldntResist

    Relic have done more, successfully, to take the RTS genre forward than Blizz have ever done.

    Destructable scenery (CoH) alone, is proof of this.

    SC2 is derivitive and safe. SC1 fans rejoyce but those of us who have moved onto better things won't be lookiing back



  • UncleLou #35 4 years ago

    Company of Heroes didn't invent destructible scenery for RTS games. CoH borrows heavily from Heroes: Soldiers of WWII in right about everything.

    SC2 is derivitive and safe. SC1 fans rejoyce but those of us who have moved onto better things won't be lookiing back

    Nonsense. There's room for both Starcraft and Company of Heroes. I've been a militant Relic fanboy ever since the first Homeworld, and I am still looking forward to SCII. And it's way too early to say anything definitive about Starcraft 2 anyhow.
    Edited by 1 at 14/03/08 @ 09:15
  • LeD #36 4 years ago

    This makes me want to play the original again. Any ideas if it will run on XP/Vista computer?
  • Nylkran #37 4 years ago

    @ LeD

    I know for a fact it runs on XP. Vista might need a patch but considering the games following, I am certain it wont be hard to find.
  • LeD #38 4 years ago

    Cheers mate. I've found a demo so I'll give that a go in a few moments. If it goes well, I'll try to hunt down a copy.
  • LeD #39 4 years ago

    Seems to work ok, though it runs in a small window at the center of the screen.
  • George-Roper #40 4 years ago

    @UncleLou

    "Company of Heroes didn't invent destructible scenery for RTS games. CoH borrows heavily from Heroes: Soldiers of WWII in right about everything.

    Nonsense. There's room for both Starcraft and Company of Heroes. I've been a militant Relic fanboy ever since the first Homeworld, and I am still looking forward to SCII. And it's way too early to say anything definitive about Starcraft 2 anyhow"

    Heroes: Soliders of WWII eh? Such a great game, i've never even heard of it. Ah, its Codemasters...

    There's nothing wrong, as such, with borrowing ideas off other developers/games as long as you do your implementation correctly and enhance the whole game as a result. It is possible to push the envelope within a genre without having to be completely original all the time but SC2 doesnt seem (to me) to present any further ideas above and beyond SC1.

    SC1 hardly came out of nowhere, now did it? What did Blizz really bring to the board, in terms of features and additions over C+C? See this is where Relic is getting it right. They're taking established systems and building on them to make them even more impressive. What's going to be in SC2, along these lines? From what I can tell, it will run at higher resolutions and be even more neon than SC1...

    No-one can argue against the fantastic implementation of destructable scenery in CoH. It was magnificently done, whether the idea was 'ripped off' another game or not. Where is your similiar feature in SC2? Nowhere, that's where, because it would cause too much upset to the core fanbase. It's better for Blizz to stay safe and satiate the fans (and lets face it, why wouldnt they) raking in massive amounts of cash for what will essentially be a rehash of SC1.

    Even the article used the word 'conservative' and we all know what that means.

    Derivitive. Safe. Sequel.

  • UncleLou #41 4 years ago

    I don't really see a point arguing with someone about innovation in RTS games who not only has never heard of Soldiers, but also seems to be proud of it, instead of informing himself. But then this is the internet, what did I expect. :)

    Anyway, that's not the point. The point is that not every game needs to reinvent the wheel. That never was Blizzard's strength anyway. I just don't believe in the concept "game type A has been surpassed by gametype B". Company of Heroes is absolutely brilliant, no doubt, among the top 5 games of the last years, easily. But it's not inherently a "better game".

    Apart form that, if you've read the article, you'll find that Blizzard obviously hasn't nearly revealed everything. Way too early for your misguided crusade.
  • CouldntResist #42 4 years ago

    @George Roper

    Again, CoH did not take the genre forward. SC2 and CoH are different styles of RTS, and as UncleLou said, there is enough room in the genre for both. You are trying to justify your own subjective dislike of Starcraft's style of gameplay with the unfounded idea that "New" equals "Better".
  • George-Roper #43 4 years ago

    @UncleLou

    "I don't really see a point arguing with someone about innovation in RTS games who not only has never heard of Soldiers, but also seems to be proud of it, instead of informing himself. But then this is the internet, what did I expect. :)

    Anyway, that's not the point. The point is that not every game needs to reinvent the wheel. That never was Blizzard's strength anyway. I just don't believe in the concept "game type A has been surpassed by gametype B". Company of Heroes is absolutely brilliant, no doubt, among the top 5 games of the last years, easily. But it's not inherently a "better game".

    Apart form that, if you've read the article, you'll find that Blizzard obviously hasn't nearly revealed everything. Way too early for your misguided crusade. "

    Yeah, because it looks like such a fucking STUNNER of a game. I'm all about grabbing those 70%, "Could have been better" titles.

    /sigh

    There's a difference between not reinvinting the wheel (see DoW/CoH) and using the same fucking wheel until it grows old and decrepit. By your standards, I guess we should all be using Quickshot 1 joysticks with a single button, yes?

    And LOLLERS to your 'they still haven't revealed everything yet!!!' statement. Get real. I'll eat my own ass if they reveal significant feature upgrades/inclusions. Appeal to the SC1 market, said the Blizz man to the Board.


    @CouldntResist

    "Again, CoH did not take the genre forward. SC2 and CoH are different styles of RTS, and as UncleLou said, there is enough room in the genre for both. You are trying to justify your own subjective dislike of Starcraft's style of gameplay with the unfounded idea that "New" equals "Better"."

    New always should equal better. You may be happy to sit in a stagnating pool of years old gameplay but i'm not and nor are many people that I know. Times have moved on. SC1, whilst it might be 'near perfectly balanced' still comes down to Rock, Paper, Scissors. The difference is in the package its delivered in, the environment, the interactivity, the bond formed with squads of troops who gain experience, the ability to pick up enemy weaponry, the ability to hole up in buildings, the ability to upgrade squads to suit a given objective (inclusion of graphical update to reflect), the ability to get behind cover, the ability to cover your escape (or attack) with smoke, the ability to dig into the terrain, the ability to attach commander units to squads, and on and on and on, to have units to scale, to have units who can smash through barriers, to have units who fucking LOOK like men, animated to the nth degree, who look and feel like theyre part of a living battlefield.

    SC2 will have very little to none of the above. That's why it's old-school and will remain old-school. And that doesn't just mean i'm targetting SC2. It also applies to C+C3 and all the other derivatives that don't drive the genre forward, instead happy to sit on the fanboy fence, knowing they'll get sales on brand alone. That's why Relic deserve the correct level of recognition in what they've achieved with Company of Heroes. They didn't have a brand for that and yet look at how amazing it turned out.

    I'm waiting for a CoH engine version of Dawn of War. That would be the pinnacle of sci-fi RTS.

    And, for the record UncleLou, im not on a crusade. It's just that with all the jizz flying around over SC2, im starting to feel a bit sick of the sicophants and baseless opinions.

    'Conservative' not my words, the words of Shaki...I mean, the words of Eurogamer.

    Edited by 1 at 14/03/08 @ 16:13
  • UncleLou #44 4 years ago

    It's just that with all the jizz flying around over SC2, im starting to feel a bit sick of the sicophants and baseless opinions.


    Nah, you're not. You're just the troll you always are, but it's funny that it annoys you so much that people are looking forward to it. It's doubly amusing that you are one of the biggest Halo fanboys around. Oh, the double standards. :)
  • CouldntResist #45 4 years ago

    Your entire attitude can be summed up thusly:

    1. You don't like SC
    2. Other people do like SC
    3. These people are wrong

    The majority of people who don't like SC's style of gameplay are perfectly willing to accept that this is largely a subjective choice between styles rather than an objective difference in playability.

    You however, are clearly a troll, and i won't bother replying to you in future.
  • George-Roper #46 4 years ago

    @UncleLou

    Sorry if the truth of SC2 being an archaic, dinosaur, of an RTS game is causing you so much discomfort.

    It must really rile that the article used words like 'conservative'. I can
    just imagine your impotent fanboi rage right now :)
  • UncleLou #47 4 years ago

    Ah, don't worry about me, I am not such a big Starcraft fan at all. I liked the original 10 years ago, and look forward to a sequel 10 years later, but that's pretty much it. Not everybody is an irrational fanboy, you know. :)

    I think the article is excellent, and the word "conservative" couldn't bother me less. You might have noticed I never argued it would be anything else.

  • George-Roper #48 4 years ago

    Nope, never noticed. I was too busy reading accusations of me being a Halo fanboi and not anything really about the comments I made about this particular game :)

    SC2 - 7/10

    "Ultimately, as polished and refined as SC2 is, times have changed and Blizzard simply haven't kept up. This contributed to making it a rather hollow, if pretty, experience"
  • Lim-Dul #49 4 years ago

    By they way - I mostly share George's views BUT I WAS a huge SC and WCIII fan. That is EXACTLY why I'm so disappointed with what I've seen of SC2. I want it to be brilliant, kinda a new quality, not just more of the same... We had WarCraft 1, 2 - OK, then came StarCraft and it was very "same-y" but at least it had a new sci-fi setting and all that exciting Battle.net stuff - I loved it. Then we had WarCraft III... Well - yet again it was more of the same but this time we had cool 3D graphics etc. Now we'll get SC2 and it's AGAIN more of the same... For me that's just about the "break point". I'm simply fed up with getting more of the same and mind you, I get to play LOTS of stuff I don't like because that's my job as a video game journalist... I don't want to see Blizzard turn another favorite of mine which is the *Craft series to a "just like the competition" level. I was annoyed enough by World of Warcraft which is brilliantly polished, easy to get into but all in all VERY similar, even inferior to many other MMORPGs who weren't lucky enough to have the WarCraft and Blizzard logos stamped all over them...

    Ironically World of WarCraft was the first sign of Blizzard's creations going down-hill for me. Yes, it's a smash-hit but for me the popularity of something isn't synonymous to its being brilliant - good, maybe - it has to be, otherwise people wouldn't be playing it - brilliant, never.

    You know - the movie "Jumper" is a smash-hit as well but is it a good movie? Not really... Even in its genre.

    The reason why I'm saying this is that overexploiting the same concept can butcher it. It happened to the point-and-click adventure genre which is trying to make a comeback recently and it happened to the Star Trek franchise where in the late '90s we had THREE different continuities running parallel to each other - the last seasons of DS9, ST: Voyager and ST: TNG in the movies. Where did that leave us? ST: Enterprise was a commercial flop although it was a quite good show - better than Voyager or the last seasons of DS9 any day. All we get now will be some lame Star Trek prequel because you now - prequels and re-boots are the shit right now! (Spider Man, Batman, James Bond... The list goes on.) Paramount killed the franchise because it tried to milk it too hard and that's just what Blizzard is doing in the video game industry. Warcraft Adventures got canceled, Starcraft Ghost got canceled... I dread to think how much "life force" there's left in the franchises and each cash-in without introducing anything new besides the brands themselves is just draining it...
  • CouldntResist #50 4 years ago

    @Lim-Dul

    Playing the same thing over and over again does get dull. The thing that i disagree with you on is that in my mind i haven't seen another RTS like SC since the original.

    I disagree that WC3 is similar to SC. WC3 doesn't have the same pace as SC and is more focused on micromanagement of units rather than tactics. e.g. WC3 is severely limited in terms of the strategies that can be employed, as splitting an army into 2 is suicidal, whereas in the original SC, attacking multiple sites and fighting on multiple fronts was par for course. The 2 games may look fundamentally similar, but they play very very differently.

    Like i say, the reason i'm looking forward to this is precisely because i've not found any other RTS since SC that has the same depth of strategy and adrenaline-inducing pace. If Blizzard had been releasing a new SC every couple of years without changing a thing, then take my word for it, i would be very bored with the series by now.
    Edited by 1 at 14/03/08 @ 19:31
  • Lim-Dul #51 4 years ago

    Well - for me the *Craft series have never been much about strategy - more about tactics... I agree that Warcraft III was even more tactical than SC. The thing is: it seems that SC2 will follow the WC III formula - have you seen all the new abilities? ALL the units seems to have at least one now and special abilities = micro-management... :-\
  • CouldntResist #52 4 years ago

    Hmmm i really hope it doesn't go the way of WC3...

    I've played both extensively...WC3 is too much about cookie-cutter tactics and 300apm click-fests, which i tire of very quickly. The reason i kept going back to SC was because in every game there was the potential to see something new. Even if two players played the same map 5 times with the same races, you could almost guarantee that no 2 games would be alike. Anyway i digress; if it turns out too much like WC3 i'll be disappointed.
  • craziii #53 4 years ago

    if any of you guys are thinking that COH or DOW fans will even dent the sales of SC2 is in lala land. I have played all 3 rts in question, SC beats them all. SC gameplay balance is achieved through player experience, where as both of the other 2 is developer induce balance following each patch. that alone shows you which game is designed the best. if you can;t figure out what I am trying to say, stop reading and forget this post, don't hurt your brain.

    to the above poster: if you have played the original, you would know SC2 will be nothing like wc3. the only unit even resembling a hero is the queen and she dies easily from what the devs say if you don protect it. thier main concerns atm is the MBS, the pros are worrying it will take out 50% of the game which is MACRO. and make it into a 100% micro game like WC3, so yea I am hoping they don't implement MBS. but if they don't alot of casuals will cry. blizzard will have plenty of time to think on that.
    Edited by 1 at 14/03/08 @ 23:47
  • Lim-Dul #54 4 years ago

    crazii - get your facts first, then you can distort them as you please. Would you mind counting how many patches StarCraft went through already? ;-)

    Also - how are you so certain about "hero units" if you haven't played the game? I wasn't talking about hero units, by the way - in WCIII most units had special abilities that you had to micro-manage and from what we can see in all the previews it'll be the same with StarCraft 2.

    Nothing like giving your personal opinion and taking it for some fact. You didn't actually put any factual statements in your post. ;-)

    P.S. Nothing like speaking in acronyms, hermetic game-jargon and bad grammar - typical fanboy rant. ;-)
  • lemonfist #55 4 years ago

    I really like what I've seen of this recently, especially the desert map and the huge-ass terran mech.
  • Polymath #56 4 years ago

    One thing that's very different about what Blizzard is trying to accomplsih with SC2 is precisely what they accidentally accomplished with SC1. They've managed to create an RTS game that became the standard platform for a sport-gaming industry. I'm not sure if its very clear to many of the readers here how profoundly SC gaming affected gaming in asia, and in particular, Korea.

    My sense is that they're trying to replace SC. To come up with a game as balanced as the original, and become the new standard for professional gaming -- that's what I think they're aiming for. Given what's been said about their attempts at infrastructure changes for the servers and battle.net, they may actually be attempting to create the infrastructure for developing an even more meaningful online sporting platform.

    In a sense, that's one of the things that Blizzard has done so well over each iteration of game; created solid polished, "conservative" products that push not the envelopes of game design, but rather raise standards in replayability, polish -- but most importantly in content deliverability and improvement.

    SC, Diablo, WCIII, WOW are all games that have grown the way people play the games -- and managed to provide incremental evolutions throughout their lives. Debates on SC balance have continued throughout its existence. Anyone who's played SC competitively knows how deep the game is.

    In a sense, for many people, watching Blizzard attempt to recreate SC is like watching someone considering how to update chess. Too much of a radical shift will make it a different game entirely. I don't know about you, but I like football (non American) the way it is already played. Fans of football have no interest in a radical update... they want to continue discussing the game they know and love. They want to discuss the elite players, and compare them to earlier heroes.

    Starcraft has that kind of audience.

    Looking at the game from this light, Blizzard, I think, is doing the right thing philosophically.
  • George-Roper #57 4 years ago

    @Polymath

    Exactly. They're not even attempting to push the genre to new places, instead happy to sit on the rehash fence and up the service quality, in terms of graphics, scale and tournament options.
  • Polymath #58 4 years ago

    I would rather put it this way:
    They're updating football championship PR, television coverage and accessibility.
  • Lim-Dul #59 4 years ago

    Yeah well. What about people who don't care about competitive gaming? =)

    Personally I lost my interest in SC when Battle.net became overloaded with a 12-year old "ha, ha I pwn you n00b" type of people. In any other competitive gaming community it looks very similar because younger people very often have better skills and far more time to practice them but at the same time are simply immature and mistake their skill for life experience.

    I have no time to get into competitive gaming anymore - I have to work to pay my bills - although I used to be quite competitive in CS and later CS:S...
  • craziii #60 4 years ago

    if you don't have an interest in professional gaming, it is fine, just be an audience. hell, hop on youtube and watch some games with english commentaries, it is fun :p it isn't like you have to compete? SC2 is pretty much a sports in korea, and if you think blizzard will cater to casual gamers over them you are in "lala land" aren't they having the pros in korea helping them balance the game? and aren't all new announcements regarding SC2 always come out in korea first? that should give you alot of clues.

    not capitalizing my internet ramblings is a choice, dumb grammar police of the internet. and this will be my only personal attack unlike your post.
  • Nikalai88 #61 4 years ago

    CoH borrowed a lot of its 'innovative' elements from wargames such as Close Combat, Eastern Front and Combat Mission and then implemented in an arguably poorer and more arcady fashion, it certainly does not deserve the credit for them. The ballistic system and the cover system in the game are also jokes. While the game is great I do disagree with people who argue that it is not a standard RTS game, when I played it the most popular tactics were: BAR rifleman spam, Ranger spam, panzershrecked grenadiers with medi bunker spam, StuG spam, Fast tech to Quad, Crocodile base rush, blob tactics, arty spam. When playing as the Americans you would always go infantry and build Rangers while the Panzer Elite player had to go Luftwaffe to counter them, not exactly what I would call amazing. There are maneuver and positioning tactics in the game, such as HMG baiting and kiting but they are never more developed or complex than those in traditional RTS game like StarCraft. What gives it the feeling of 'realism' and 'logic' is how something’s react the way they should, like flamethrowers counter trenches and HMGs suppress infantry, but this is countered by things that are flat out not realistic and illogical, like mortars destroying barbed wire or hard targeting bonuses.

    Relic's record is also not perfect, they made Homeworld2 and Impossible Creatures and could not make DoW a great multiplayer game. As for StarCraft 2; RTS games are both skill and intelligence, I know Blizzard can get the micro/macro part down and the amount of tactical possibilities in StarCraft is impressive but they need to achieve a proper balance between the two. There are too many times where Korean players simply focus on doing one strategy really really well and then make only minor changes to it as the game progresses. Either make the game less punishing for making mistakes or come up with a more creative solution.

    BTW StarCraft is more than just rock/paper/scissors, its more complex than pikeman>cavalry

    One more thing when StarCraft was released it was not an innovative game. Arguing that about its sequel is kind of redundant.
    Edited by 2 at 17/03/08 @ 07:11
  • butler` #62 4 years ago

    Can't help but laugh at some eurogamer comment threads. Almost everyone slating SC2 doesn't have the first clue about SC, RTSs, Blizzard and their goals, or any combination of the three.

    Unprecedented multiplayer balance with asymmetrical races
    Incredible UI in terms of being accessible for new players and incredibly efficient and advanced for pros
    Single player, story, music, art design, inter-mission segments
    Removal of heroes taking it back to true RTS godness

    Hell I could go on. It isn't fanboyism, it's awareness.


  • WomenAreMen #63 4 years ago

    CoH is not innovative. The games mentioned in this thread alone proves that. I'm looking at Heroes: Soldiers of WWII and it's really difficult to call CoH innovative based on that game alone. Especially regarding the whole "destructible scenery" thing. If you call rehashing old ideas and be successful with it "innovative" like CoH then SC2 will no doubt be "innovative" as well from what we've seen. Stop being so dishonest. In fact, calling CoH innovative while DoW came out 2 years before it is even sillier. Relic simply used their ideas for DoW in a WW2 setting. Which, when you think about it, is kinda silly for a WW2 setting. I mean, capturing a piece of land before you can build stuff on it? And after an extra piece of land with nothing on it, you can get more weapons or fuel or whatever? Ridiculously unrealistic. Fun? Hell yeah. Innovative? Hell no. Don't even compare that "level of innovation" with SC.

    SC raised the bar, high. Nothing came close to it when it came out. 3 COMPLETELY distinctive races in terms of buildings, units and looks. Where you have no clue how to play them even if you mastered one? Unheard of back then and even now still a rarity. Back then, people were all over that "AoE has over 10 different races!" crap which all practically played the same barring 1 or 2 different units.

    I don't know how this game will stack up, but I have no doubt that it's going to be an awesome game, innovative or not. And in the end, that's what matters. It's hard to improve on a legendary game like SC, and this game looks like an improvement to me.
    Edited by 1 at 26/07/08 @ 14:37