Star Ocean: The Last Hope Comments by Simon Parkin

@Vistrix
@miiiguel I love the platform, cant stand the company though! : ) You totally misunderstood me however.

So you think its a total coincidence that JRPGs have been made very poorly only on the 360?

"JRPGs have been made very poorly only on 360?"

So other platforms are incapable of having bad JRPGs? Or the same game implemented on a different platform would automatically be better? What are you basing that on?

Its funny how the majority of JRPGs (or a game with JRPG elements) on the PS3 or PSP thats been released (there are a few!) has received some awesome reviews.

Hmmm... not sure about that either it's all pretty anecdotal as they've also received some shite reviews, the same as the 360 JRPGs. Perhaps this can be put down to the expectations people (yourself included) have for games on the 360 vs the PS3.

For example: from IGN because I can't find a convenient way of getting a list of the PS3 RPGs (apologies for the wall of text, I've cut out multiple entries for some reviews, leaving the best score).

Action RPG:
Rise of the Argonauts Action RPG 6.2 Dec 17, 2008
Valkyria Chronicles [AU] Action RPG 9.1 Oct 29, 2008
Fallout 3 (Survival Edition) Action RPG 9.4 Oct 28, 2008
Marvel: Ultimate Alliance Action RPG 7.9 Nov 15, 2006
Untold Legends: Dark Kingdom Action RPG 6.5 Nov 15, 2006

RPG genre:
Cross Edge RPG 3.5 May 29, 2009
Sacred 2: Fallen Angel RPG 6.5 May 13, 2009
Eternal Sonata RPG 8.7 Oct 24, 2008
Enchanted Arms RPG 6.5 Apr 3, 2007
Elder Scrolls IV: Oblivion, The RPG 9.2 Mar 26, 2007

Strategy RPG genre:
Disgaea 3: Absence of Justice Strategy RPG 6.7 Aug 29, 2008

The multiplatform games (Elder Scrolls, Sacred 2 and Eternal Sonata etc) tend to score much the same on both 360 and PS3. The Disgaea 3 and Cross Edge reviews would suggest that the PS3 seems to be as capable of hosting "bad" JRPGs as the 360. (Or at least games that were poorly received by the reviewer).

If you read the article, it's pretty fair, and reads well - great battle system (which is a major part of any RPG), and varied locations with above average graphics. Detailed item synthesis and plenty of side content. Bad voice acting and mundane plot. Hard to argue with that really.

The problem is the score - a review like that could easily apply to other JRPGs which get 8s or 9s, so 6 seems harsh. A 7 or 8 would seem a more realistic representation, probably more 7 than 8. However, *THEY ARE JUST ARBITARY NUMBERS*. The sooner games sites drop the numbers and move towards "summaries" (ie. key attributes for/against) the better.

@Daryoon

Completely agree. Calling a whole genre generic based on it's trademarks. How about sports games, shooters, fighters, etc, etc. All the fucking same if you really dissect them. People who slam a whole genre need to go back to the stuff they like and leave us the fuck alone. I''m not going into the FIFA thread to bash socer games in general.

I see IGN is just as trustworthy as ever. Valkyria Chronicles is not an action RPG, it's a Strat RPG or Simulation RPG.

*edit*

:-D

And that's the best score for Disgaea 3?

I kinda want to play the game, having (mostly) enjoyed Star ocean 1 and 3 but I don't want to play it enough to wattant a purchase now. Maybe when the price goes down or they announce a PS3 version which fixes some of the annoyances.

And please tell me MP death is not present, please?

IGN's more reliable than you buddy Yakuza isn't an RPG at all it's a straight up action game...

it's the real time kung fu moves that give it away tbh

If you take you're 3 class games btw, two of them haven't been released in Europe (Yakuza (not RPG) and Demon's souls) and the other Valkyria is a great SRPG (it passes the test either way) that sold naff all. 360 this gen has easily competed with PS for JRPG's, it's a bit of a stale genre imo (12 yr old yappy kid joins my party, or twins, i turn console off), for me the best so far have been Mistwalkers but FF13 should change matters

@Cappy
I see IGN is just as trustworthy as ever. Valkyria Chronicles is not an action RPG, it's a Strat RPG or Simulation RPG.

I suppose their likes-and-dislikes are about as trustworthy as anyone else's.

They do seem to have misfiled it though as their review starts with:

"October 29, 2008 - Valkyria Chronicles isn't a perfect game. That being said, this strategy RPG from SEGA is one of the richest, most rewarding titles I've played in a long while. "

And that's the best score for Disgaea 3?

The best score IGN gave it, yes. The only one in fact.

They put in multiple duplicate entries for games that have collectors editions and also occasionally post reviews from the UK or Australian IGN sites, those are the multiple entries I removed, where there was a difference I left the highest scoring review there.

@TOOTR

Lost Oddessey's a good one. It's pretty old school in it's mechanics what with random battles and save points but the plots quite mature and engaging (though it takes a few hours to get going). Eternal Sonata is set Chopin's head but I haven't completed it yet. Going back Grandia II (PC/PS2/DC) although featuring several of the tropes (nowhere near all though) of my earlier post is one of my favourites due to the character dynamics, battle engine and the way it explores religion and the dangers of blind faith (dips in the middle though).

To be fair Enchanted Arm which is essentially one long JRPG cliche is very enjoyable. I'd personally miss Infinite Undiscovery (again haven't completed it might get better) and Blue Dragon's a little kiddy and dosen't get "really" interesting til the final disc. However if you are new to JRPGs the simular plots shouldn't grate as much (though Golden Sun is very cliched) until you start spotting them yourself.

:-D

Yakuza has as many RPG features as most games people list. Leveling and a skill tree for instance plus random thugs hanging around. But the real time battle system makes it not an RPG, I guess Star Ocean: Last Hope and Phantasy Star Online weren't RPGs after all.

Demon's Souls can be purchased and played by anybody with a PS3 whether it's released in Europe or not. Valkyria Chronicles is just about coming up to the 500,000 copies sold mark and still selling, Sega recently thanked Valkyria fans for the continuing great sales which have come partly from word of mouth, it may already be the second highest selling RPG/SRPG of this generation on the HD consoles.

Dazzle me with some more of your knowledge.

i've still got Star Ocean 3 to play which i bought not so long ago ;_;

@GundamJehutyKai
I kinda want to play the game, having (mostly) enjoyed Star ocean 1 and 3 but I don't want to play it enough to wattant a purchase now. Maybe when the price goes down or they announce a PS3 version which fixes some of the annoyances.

And please tell me MP death is not present, please?

To be honest, I don't see the "annoyances" being fixed in any future PS3 release as they're really just design decisions that the reviewer dislikes (apart of course from the ability to play with Japanese voices, which I would love and would easily fit on a bluray version).

MP death? Erm... no? It's definitely, maybe, possibly not there? Kinda. (Ok, I don't know what that means :) ).

@Cappy

500k copies i'm afraid does not a hit make nowadays...Oddysey shifted 800k but still, that's not a particularly big selling game (Lego indiana jones did about 4 million)..

soo...dazzle wise, have a look at this whizzy chart for some crazy perspective

http://vgchartz.com/swlaunch.php?reg1=Al...

Re Yakuza...well, Rainbow Six Vegas has many RPG features such as character customisation and a levelling tree too, it doesn't however make it an RPG....the term is broad sure, but most people when they talk JRPG, aren't really talking about games like Yakuza imo

"sparse save-points"

When JRPG's get out of this ridiculous habit I might bother with them again.

@penhalion

TO be honest, i've just killed the first dragon newt i found.

Edge is level 20, remi and the others 19-17

I'm not sure how long it is until the end of disk 2, but i have been actively seeking out battles to level.

My point is, why would you play a JRPG if you didn't want to be involved in a lot fights?

That said, you can avoid fights when you wish.

@BillyBrush
Whether you think Yakuza is an RPG or not is irrelevant anyway since Disgaea 3, Demon's Souls and Valkyria Chronicles were the games I specified as RPGs you can play right now.

The woefully anachronistic Lost Odyssey's sales figures mean what exactly? A game that has been out longer for a console with a bigger user base probably will sell more? The PS3 has more quality games in this genre bracket than the 360 no matter how you slice it or how much Lost Odyssey sells.

@Cappy
A game that has been out longer for a console with a bigger user base probably will sell more?

Yes.

Tbh you can spin it around a bunch of ways, however you like...you chose to quote 500k sales as a measure of Valkyria, i pointed out Oddysey has done over 1/2 it's sales on top, and is still not considered a hit by 2009 standards.

Overall, MS have had either exclusives or timed stuff with Namco Bandai, Tri Ace, Square Enix, Mistwalker....Mistwalker aside as they're new...those are the biggest JRPG companies out there.

It's not a genre that excites me especially, but I would have thought anyone with basic knowledge of these games could see that MS has been fairly active this gen with things like Vesperia, Blue Dragon, Oddysey, Sonata, Undiscovery, star ocean, final fantsay, ench arms, ffxi online, last remnant...they're hardly short on them to be honest...from Xb1 to 360 they have gone from none to quite a few

@BillyBrush

Dazzled. True story.
Not by JRPG's though; haven't touched one since ... FF VIII?

Might buy XIII, don't care what platform. Still more looking forward to Mass Effect 2.

Edit: very bad spelling

@BillyBrush

I wasn't merely quoting sales, I was correcting your assertion that Valkyria Chronicles had sold 'naff all'. Valkyria Chronicles has done extremely well for an SRPG and a game that wasn't hyped for two or three years.

"The PS3 has more quality games in this genre bracket than the 360 no matter how you slice it."

Hilarious! It may have more titles that appeal to you personally, but your statement is the complete opposite of the truth.

It's amazing how many people state opinion as fact, you really need to learn the difference

Kinda knew this was another epic RPG fail.

When I saw a flurry of Square-Enix RPGs laid out for the 360 (the others being Infinite Undiscovery and Last Remnant) I was concerned by Sony's loss of their usual strong attribute. But it seems with these three games the 360 forever seems destined to not display a semi-competent RPG developed in Japan (or the West, for that matter; Fable II, Oblivion and Fallout 3 all being below 9/10 in quality).

Lost Odyssey is certainly the console's strongest RPG offering, but is let down by atrocious technical issues and a relatively forgettable main plot.

If I were Sony I would sincerely attempt to release a strong lineup of solid RPGs to bring over those PS2 owners who adore these types of games. A good start would be to get Atlus to exclusively release Persona 5 on the PS3; such a prospect would be enough to shift many sole-PS2 owners into purchasing a PS3.

lol

6 out 10 iisn't the end of the world. I'll play any ol' shite. Oneechanbara I'm looking at you!

"Lost Odyssey is certainly the console's strongest RPG offering, but is let down by atrocious technical issues and a relatively forgettable main plot. "

Apart from the loading times (which would n' be much better on a PS3 I think) I didn't see much technical problems there. And the plot is heaps better than 90% of the JRPG's out there. In fact it has one of the best due to the short stories alone. Beats any FF to date for me (well VI was quite stellar)

I agree menage, I'm baffled as to what these "technical issues" were that Lost Odyssey apparently suffered from. For me its hands down the best JRPG of this generation, everything about it was wonderful (well apart from the kids voice acting but even they weren't [i]bad[/i]) The dreams that told the backstory were compelling, I think the reason why a number of people couldn't get along with them is because they don't have the attention span required.

@miiiguel - You really didn't understand my post, did you? The PS3 doesn't have many J-RPGs because they're all on the Xbox 360! ;)

The PS3 has Demon Soul and Eternal Sonata at least, two pretty decent RPGs, and there's White Knight Chronicles from Level 5 on the way. Plus Final Fantasy XIII which will likely appear before the 360 version, at least for importers anyway.

Yes, the 360 has more J-RPGs but most of them have been average in my experience, Lost Odyssey notwithstanding, I just didn't click with that game. That's the point I was making. Microsoft are (were?) desperate to sell the 360 in Japan though so I guess that's why it has more J-RPGs than the PS3 does. Whatever... I remain optimistic that Tales of Vesperia will turn out to be decent...

Crofto:

'I was concerned by Sony's loss of their usual strong attribute. But it seems with these three games the 360 forever seems destined to not display a semi-competent RPG developed in Japan'


Final fantasy 13 is likely (going) to be the biggest, and possibly best RPG coming, and it's on 360 too, so it seems it's pretty much destined to display a semi competent RPG developed in Japan.

...it already has a bunch that are pretty good, Blue Dragon and LO being my favourites, but Sonata scored well with critics, so did Vesperia...the SDF line is just weak nowadays, pull the wool over your eyes, put your fingers in your ears and yell

"Completely agree. Calling a whole genre generic based on it's trademarks. How about sports games, shooters, fighters, etc, etc. All the fucking same if you really dissect them. People who slam a whole genre need to go back to the stuff they like and leave us the fuck alone. I''m not going into the FIFA thread to bash socer games in general."

Except that the named genres have been constantly evolving their interaction, setting and gameplay whereas jrpg's pretty much still do the same thing as 20 years ago. Hell, they just copy the 5 or 6 character templates to each game. The guy that makes dragon quest doesn't even hide that he makes the same thing over and over.

I'm not saying that this is always the case but it often is.

The Xbox360 JRPGs just define "Average" They are always... not very good.... almost as if the companies are just knocking them out for a bit of "desperate to make headway in Japan" microsoft cash.
I, personally will pick this up when its in the bargain bin,- like in a fortnight !!!!!!!
Nothing comes down in price as fast as a XBox360 JRPG price!!!!!!

The JRPG is lost on them LOST!!!!! and it doesnt help that all their JRPGs are so banal and distinctly average
Poor old Microsoft!!!!!!!!!!!! ANOTHER load of moneyhat cash down the toilet!!!!!!!!!!!

@Xerx3s - Well J-RPGs, to be fair, have evolved somewhat over the past decade although their core battle mechanics remain firmly in place.

One notable improvement is that most have abandoned those god-awful annoying random battles, something I disliked about Lost Odyssey by the way, in favour of real time battles and visible enemies, something which is far better IMO. I would have abandoned the genre years ago if it wasn't for the diminishing number of games with random battles. I really hated the way they interrupted exploration, sometimes every 10 bloody seconds!!! They belong firmly in the 20th century in my humble opinion. One of my favourite RPGs of all-time isn't Final Fantasy VII, it's Grandia II on the Dreamcast, really adored that game. No random battles either.

I'm delighted to note that Tales of Vesperia doesn't rely on random battles either so that is a huge plus straight away for me. :)

I didn't say that the Xbox 360 has caused the stagnation of J-RPGs though, BillyBrush, just that it seems to have a lot of very average ones 'tis all. ;)

Until you can accurately argue against the significant contributions and innovations that games like Monster Hunter, Persona 3/4, Fragile, Valkyria Chronicles, Demon's Souls, Valkyrie Profile: Covenant of the Plume, Avalon Code, Rune Factory, Soul Nomad, Knights in the Nightmare, The World Ends With You, Chronicle of Dungeon Maker, Glory of Heracles and Seventh Dragon have made and the upcoming promising new ideas that Infinite Space, Blood of Bahamut, End of Eternity, Crystal Bearers and Hero 30 are looking to bring, then you need to shut yer trap. If you can't identify these games or talk about their design in detail, you don't have one speck of a clue what the hell you're talking about when it comes to the growth or lack thereof of the genre.

loads of stuff to do... crafting items, skill unlocks, extra difficulties, second play through. this is jrpg gold... so the story line isn't up to much. i remember you saying that about killzone 2 and you gave that a high score. it's ok for a first person shooter to have a pointless vapid story like (halo. call of duty. rainbow six. ghost recon. ect. ect.) but when the recent jrpgs have bad stories but make up for it in almost every other area 6/10. stop whining.

I personally do not understand why people base their buying decision on one person opinion. I can understand if the reviewer has the same taste as you in the particular genre but most times it takes a few different takes on a game to fully understand if it will be something you want to invest in.

Also some of you should not feed the trolls, you know who they are especially when they make some of the dumbest arguments.

If it helps anyone make their minds up about whether to buy or not, I've played this for 17 hours so far and really love it. It is not a 6/10 game. I was stunned by the score, the review was so much more positive.

Definitely on a par with Lost Odyssey, which I thought was fab.

My only gripe is the character Lymle, who is the most annoying character I've ever come across. Seriously. But now I can drop her from my party everything is wonderful. :)

I give this Star Ocean 7 out of 10 loved the last one Till the End of Time though I can't remember the details but I remember it was enjoyable to play.

This one just has bad script decisions, the voice acting is good, too much Edge worshipping dialog, too much Lymle ,too much self loathing Edge. There are some funny skits with Welch but also a couple of boring ones.

Plus the game starts out kind of clunky presentation and clunky graphics wise ie learning the battle system and the graphics not so great first planet and third planet Cardianon mothership.

Planet Roak looks pretty good thats where I'm at at the moment. They could have made the characters a little older say plus five years. The dialog level is for 12-14 year olds. Thats too low to be anything but mildly entertaining with great gobs of why did they say that thrown in.

Demon's Soul a RPG?!

I ve been playing it, certainly a game that REQUIRES a lot of investment from gamer, and you ll need to take a while taking bashings and dying before you would be satisified at playing through a level. Repeatingly but still the game gives you a pleasure when you get it right.

But to call it a role playing game in traditional sense, nope ... but action rpg would be more like it but plays like a third person combat game with rpg elements (leveling up and grindings).

Star Ocean: The Last Hope is jrpg of the extreme japanese sense, its hard to see it translating across as well as Demon's Soul which is actually a very westernised game compared to Last Hope. All the infantile 'kay and teenagers being selected to lead a mission is something that you had to swallow very very hard just to enjoy the game.

I switched off the idea of playing something like Mass Effect or Demon's Soul real-world like interactions/physics to just accomodate the humour and fun battles, the game becomes more like a 7/10 and certainly better than the broken Last Remant for me.

Infinite Discovery was reasonably fun once you GET past the horrid first couple of hours and start to grows as a jrpg with reasonable story and combats. Lost Odyssey remains the best jrpg for me this gen on X360 and Blue Dragon never finished, looks good but didnt have the appeal for me to finish the game.

Currently playing FFVII on PSP and yes compared this, Mass Effect and even Lost Odyssey, Last Hope doesnt merits serious consideration but not a total disaster such as was for Last Remant.

Enchanted Arm...... finished the game, loved the battle system but hated the idea of having to replay it...never again!!

@RexRunti

Hilarious post about jrpgs, would read again!!

Once again EG get it wrong..SO-TLH is a good game, but EG reviewers just can't seem to see it.....8/10 ( for the JRPG fans among you )

I haven't replayed any game in ages not since I was little not enough time or interest. Enchanted Arms is the only game I got all 1000 "achievement points". Too many games with too many achievements like smack Michael Jacksons' chimp Bubbles or something like that. Anyway whatever.

@Menage: "Calling a whole genre generic based on it's trademarks"

I suggest you look up the meaning of the word generic. Here, I'll do it for you: "Relating to or descriptive of an entire group or class"

Any trait that is common to a genre, (especially any common enough to be called a "trademark") is, by definition, generic. You can argue that this isn't necessarily a bad thing (and I wouldn't disagree with you), you cannot argue that they are not generic.

Some of the best games ever made are generic, games that focus on doing their "thing" very well rather than branching out and doing something new.

Star Ocean the last hope is not a good RPG. At times during the story, you are left feeling totally at odds with the main character! I think I even yelled "Shoot the f&*king thing for christ sake" quite a few times while watching the cut scenes. It's painful in places because the main character is quite frankly a complete moron! He's super emotional like a twelve year old school girl and seems incapable of making even the most basic decisions.

I hated this and it's going back as soon as prototype comes out on friday. There are better games out there, like Lost Oddessy or Infinte Undiscovery. If you don't have mass effect, then get that instead. Seriously, if you are a fan of JRPGs then give this a miss. It will seriously taint your view of them.

Good game, I like it. I don't think it being too traditional and cliched is a bad thing, because I like traditional RPGs. Character design is good, and the story passes the time adequately. It's no Terranigma, but if you want a decent RPG and some eye-candy then you're sorted with this.

This is a very conflicted game. I honestly find the characters, script, costumes and general childish feel all conspire to create cut scenes that are genuinely embarrassing to watch.

The Star Ocean staple 'private actions', mini easter-egg style interactions between the characters for the uninitiated, manage the occasional nod to the fact that some of the audience may actually be over 12, but for the most part, the story seems aimed squarely at pre-pubescent Japanese kids and immature otaku throughout the world.

Conversely the overworlds are usually fairly sizeable, dungeons are long with a simple puzzle running throughout each, the characters each play distinctively, optionals such as item creation and quests are rewarding, battles are avoidable ... all good things for those of us who like a good JRPG.

Overall, for anybody looking at the review score and still undecided, if you think you can get past the really horrendous 'story' and still be drawn in enough by the battle system to invest the significant amount of time required to really get the best of the game, it's a cracker. If not save your time and money, this is just not for you.

To add some context, in terms of recent JRPGs, I adored Last Remnant, enjoyed Lost Odyssey, detested Eternal Sonata with every fibre of my being and my copy of Infinite Undiscovery remains largely untouched to my immense chagrin. Valkryria Chronicles and Disgaea 3 both fall into the loved to bits category, but are SRPGs in my eyes.

To add some context, in terms of recent JRPGs, I adored Last Remnant, enjoyed Lost Odyssey, detested Eternal Sonata with every fibre of my being and my copy of Infinite Undiscovery remains largely untouched to my immense chagrin. Valkryria Chronicles and Disgaea 3 both fall into the loved to bits category, but are SRPGs in my eyes.

@Spryte

I totally agree with you. I would add Tales Of Vesperia, which I enjoyed to the max. And I'm immersed in Sacred 2 now.
I think alot of PS3 owners just bitter since they had all the RPGS last generation. In this generation, the 360 has most of the Japanese & Western rpgs, which was MS' plan :)

This review definitley read more like an 8 if anything, lol that 6 sorta came out of nowhere.

Anyway, I've been playing the game and I'm enjoying it much much more than I though I would, sometimes the dialogue is questionable but for the most part it's fairly solid and well acted, sure it's okay to say certain characters are annoying but that's who they are.
For example people find Lymle very annoying, I can see where they're coming from but I still disagree, I like her lack of tolorance toward faize, if there's anyone who makes me grate my teeth it's welch, her general apperance and voice scream for me to hate them, too bad item creation proves very fruitful in this game. >.<

The battle system is immence, and I'm loving the Blindside ability I really do it makes the battles far more interesting, as well as the traditional Star Ocean Chain combo system making a comeback, the battle animations are very impressive too!

The worlds are lush, expansive and generally beautiful I don't mind traversing vast expanses if they prove to be eye candy.

I really only have 2 main gripes with the game thus far, the feild controls, now this should be an issue for a JRPG as battles are seperate from the field but it actually is...
Firstly the camera is overly sensitive so positioning it can be a nightmare at times, panning thr camera is alright, and as the review states it's generally set to give the game an epic feel, and it does, but trying to turn it left and right is a bit of a chore.
Also Actually controlling edge is fiddly too, moving him left and right is overly sensitive, thus trying to position youself infront of a chest takes some unnessasary effort lol, also why is his dash ability so short? Perhaps int he game he'll get an extended version later? Still I suppose it gets you from A to B

My second gripe is the music, it's all very samey so far and lacks some of the stand out scores of the previous titles, hopefully I will hear something good with more play.

so far I'm at that planet that actually looks like a Fortress (the name escapes me) but so far it's proven to be an enjoyable experience, one that I have no intentions leaving anytime soon.

I think I was too cynical. I guess I was expecting too much. I give it 8/10 because its still fun to play as quirky as the dialog maybe.

@Slipstream Thats the Cardianon Mothership.

All the good RPGs are on the DS. Everyone knows that.

All the good RPGs are on the DS. Everyone knows that.

@Charlie_Miso

Yes, though, I need a screen much bigger than the DS to enjoy my rpgs ;)

I like JRPGs a lot, but I abandoned this about five hours in. It has the plot of bad SF anime combined with character models that are right at the very bottom of the uncanny valley in terms of creepiness - it's like watching cutscenes acted out by people with Kigurumi fetishes.

If anyone is tossing up between this and Tales of Vesperia, please do yourself a favour and go for the latter. Vesperia is also fairly conventional but incredibly well-executed, especially in comparison to SO4.