Sony's David Reeves

By Tom Bramwell Published 22 July, 2008

On the 80GB PS3, Microsoft, Home and Harrison.

It's been almost a year since we had a proper chat with SCEE boss David Reeves, and a lot's gone on. PS3 has apparently overtaken Xbox 360 in Europe ("We know what the figures are," says Reeves, no doubt aware of Microsoft's response), and just prior to our discussion at E3 Reeves announced that the 80GB PS3 would launch in Europe on 27th August for GBP 299 / EUR 399.

However, the intervening period has also seen the cancellation of Eight Days and The Getaway, repeated delays for the ambitious multi-user Sony-world of PlayStation Home, the exit of Phil Harrison as head of Worldwide Studios, and Microsoft declaring it will win the entire console war - something it believes is backed up by its success with Xbox Live, Grand Theft Auto IV and key third-party exclusives.

Naturally then, we asked Reeves about much of that as we stood by a pool in Santa Monica sipping Sony beer. Read on to find out what Sony is doing for European gamers, what aeroplanes and swords have to do with the console war, and why Reeves says Microsoft should stick LittleBigPlanet in Powerpoint.

Eurogamer: Why do the 80GB PS3 in Europe now?

David Reeves: I think the honest answer is that the 80GB hard drive hit a price - a procurement price - at a point where we said "yes, we'll take it now". Hard drives are commodities not just for PlayStations but for Vaios and everything else, and you hit that thing where they say, "okay, 80GB - we'll give it to you at the same price as you can for a 40GB" and that's what's happening right now. It's just fortuitous.

They're already being produced. In fact, most of the European ones have already been produced and are on the boat. We'd probably go a little bit earlier but we just want to build up a bit of stock so we don't have shortages in the European markets.

'Sony's David Reeves' Screenshot 1

Exactly the same.

Eurogamer: How does the console war look from your perspective in Europe?

David Reeves: We actually don't think about it too much. I think we've only made one - I would say - controversial announcement and that was to say that we have a higher installed base than Xbox 360 and we stand by that. We know what the figures are.

But I think - and I keep repeating this - that the more important thing is the growth in the marketplace is just absolutely phenomenal. Not just in Europe either. I was just talking to a guy from New Zealand - in Australia the videogames business is now worth 1.5 billion dollars and five years ago it was like 200,000. The same thing is happening in Europe. I'm talking here about an extended Europe - in Russia and Poland, people are moving from PC gaming to consoles.

I prefer to talk about the fact that, yeah, we're competitors, but the competition really has made people so much sharper, and if I can use this analogy, if you're fighting in a war that's, say, Boeing versus Airbus, it's almost like battleship against battleship and you're fighting from 15 miles away; if you're fighting in the car war, it might be that you're fighting in tanks and you're one kilometre away; in the videogame industry, if there's a war, if there's competition, it's almost like hand-to-hand fighting, but it makes you sharper. You want to have a sharper sword, you want to have a sword that feels just about right, and everyone is very sharp, and what they're doing is they're looking for high ground, low ground where they can get an advantage.

The winner is the consumer, and I think that's great. That's why we are not going to slag off Microsoft or Nintendo at all, because again it's rather like the trainer market: one year it's Reebok, next year it's Nike, and then suddenly it's Adidas; it's cyclical, but in the end everyone wins in five to ten years.

I think we should just celebrate the fact that the videogame industry is growing. I don't say it's recession-proof - it's not - but it's close to that.

Eurogamer: Are you worried at all about Microsoft's attempts to gain ground in Southern Europe where you're traditionally strong?

David Reeves: I have to say it's not top of mind - we don't really think about it. We look at our numbers and we see our numbers growing. I think that Microsoft got some impetus from GTA IV. They got some impetus but they've fallen back since then, and I think they will continue along that strategy of trying to get exclusives from third parties and promote that. We anticipate that, but we still feel that we have our own IPs that we call our "landing lights" that people are just going to go for.

Eurogamer: Do you feel at all hamstrung by SCEA launching English-language content that immediately puts your localised European content a few weeks behind? Do you think PSN could do with launching things simultaneously to see off some of the PR problems that causes?

David Reeves: In an ideal world I think you're right, that we've got to get more to day-and-date. When the US launch, we could launch in Australia and we could launch in New Zealand and the UK, but if we did that then our colleagues in Italy and France and Germany and Spain would not be very happy, so we've chosen to stick to the strategy of doing it pan-European and pan-Australia and New Zealand.

But I think that we're going to find with some of the ones that I announced tonight that they're going to be much, much closer. There might be two of three days between them but we want to get them closer on pricing as well.

Eurogamer: Phil Harrison has left now. Some of the games that were commissioned during his tenure as head of Worldwide Studios - Eight Days and The Getaway - have now been cancelled and Home is dragging along. Is there a feeling that maybe you're trying to undo some of the things he put in place that have become problematic?

David Reeves: Not consciously, no. I don't feel it. I think that some of these things would have gone exactly the same way if Phil Harrison had been there.

Phil Harrison's legacy is very, very positive. He pioneered SingStar, EyeToy, Buzz, and when he saw LittleBigPlanet for the first time he said "we've got to have that", so I would say Phil is 99.9 percent positive in terms of his legacy.

Some of the games that you talk about - Eight Days and things like that - I think he would have said it's gone on too long as well. I think it's just coincidence that that's happened.

'Sony's David Reeves' Screenshot 2

Hey baby. A/S/L?

Eurogamer: With PlayStation Home, what do you think's taken so long?

David Reeves: As Jack [Tretton] said yesterday [during SCEA's conference], it went down a track that maybe had too high a set of ideals relating to non-gaming and we've come back now and said we're going to focus now simply on games.

If we're going to focus on games launching from Home, building some really good Trophy systems, then we have to involve the third parties. If we're going to involve the third parties, they have to have an SDK. That meant we were really taking one pace back, two paces forward all the time, and we had to take a pace to get the SDK out, to involve the third parties, to make sure that when it came out with gaming it was 100 percent on the open beta.

I've seen it over the last 2-3 weeks and I'm happy that it's going to work.

Eurogamer: One of our guys [Eurogamer hero Dan Whitehead] has been playing it because you were doing some presentations earlier today.

David Reeves: Yeah, it looks a lot better than it did. I shouldn't say it "looks a lot better"; it now is for gamers, where gamers can hang out and can launch things, and they want to be able to launch third-party titles as well, and that meant going back, doing a lot more programming and getting the SDK out.

Eurogamer: And LittleBigPlanet's definitely on for October? Obviously you had it doing the graphs in the conference yesterday.

David Reeves: Yep. We thought we might sell it to Microsoft to put it in Powerpoint.

[Laughing]

It's a way to do it, isn't it? You never know. It's the kind of crazy thing that Microsoft might say, "Yeah okay Sony, we'll do that." Considering how much we pay for all the stuff we put onto Vaios for them.

David Reeves is president of Sony Computer Entertainment Europe.

Picture of Tom.

About Tom Bramwell

Tom is Operations director of Eurogamer Network and Editor-at-Large of Eurogamer.net. He joined the company in February 2000.

Read more articles from Tom by visiting the Tom Bramwell archive page.

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Comments (118) Latest comment 4 years ago

Comments threads automatically close after 30 days, but please feel free to continue chatting on the forum!

  • johnnybrn #1 4 years ago

    Oi Dave, youre a nob

  • Bagpuss #2 4 years ago

    "We'd probably go a little bit earlier but we just want to build up a bit of stock so we don't have shortages in the European markets."

    LOL...he wishes.


    "We actually don't think about it too much."

    Your telling me...


    "but if we did that then our colleagues in Italy and France and Germany and Spain would not be very happy"

    So..who gives a shit, its their fault if they choose to still speak obscure languages.
    Edited by 2 at 22/07/08 @ 13:50

  • berelain #3 4 years ago

    he came across as mostly alight there, until the last few paragraphs where some of the truths of Home came out- so, what, you won't be able to launch third party games through it unless the developers support it? What kind of backwards thinking is that?

    And with the PSN thing, why not hold back *all* regions launches until they're ready? Then no region gets a raw deal...

  • berelain #4 4 years ago

    @ Evilfoxhound: My local Game and Gamestation stores have plenty.

  • GChris #5 4 years ago

    "he came across as mostly alight there, until the last few paragraphs where some of the truths of Home came out- so, what, you won't be able to launch third party games through it unless the developers support it? What kind of backwards thinking is that?"

    I assume they mean launching directly into a game - there was a demo video somewhere, showing a bunch of people in Home, and then the next moment the countdown for the start of a Motorstorm race was ticking down.

    You can't get that kind of interaction between Home and a game if support isn't built into a game, and I assume that's what he's referring to here.

  • brokenkey #6 4 years ago

    what's the picture of the A380 about?

  • aldo_14 #7 4 years ago

    he came across as mostly alight there, until the last few paragraphs where some of the truths of Home came out- so, what, you won't be able to launch third party games through it unless the developers support it? What kind of backwards thinking is that?

    I'm not sure it's backwards thinking - from what I understand of the integration they want, you'd need to design it to hook into Home. Admittedly, i've not paid much attention to it, but my understanding is that Home isn't replacing any existing UI but trying to add a sort of seperate virtual world with some sort of 'bonus features' above simply launching the game. I mean, you have to integrate any 360 game to support MS' Live (etc) code to have it registering achievements, don't you?

    (I think one of the things that Ms have done this generation is have vastly superior developer support, right from the off, for this sort of thing. Sony are very much playing catchup in terms of dev tools etc as fas as I'm aware, which was a legacy - Kuturagis? - of concentrating on hardware over software)

  • KayJay #8 4 years ago

    Interesting read that.
    I suppose the 40gig & 80gig thing makes sense. Be interesting to know how much they do in fact buy the HDD for. I paid £70 for my 320gig drive, so they must be getting these 80gig drives for next to nothing?

    Really worried Home is going to be a load of arse, hopefully the time its taking to finish really does sort it out.

    Also, johnnybrn your such a stupid little idiot

  • alimokrane #9 4 years ago

    @evilfoxhound

    in stock at play.com
    in stock at shopto.net
    in stock at amazon.co.uk

    etc etc etc .... get your facts straight!

  • Bitkari #10 4 years ago

    Fairly straight-forward replies from a platform holder!

    What a refreshing change.

    More of this from your colleagues, svp!

  • Waffleaber #11 4 years ago

    I agree, he comes across rather well. His response to the last question in particular made me smile.

  • jebus #12 4 years ago

    @Evilfoxhound "Have you tried buying PS3 in the UK latley? There is a massive shortage and nowhere has them until Sony make a large shipment on the 28th. They didn't see the recent sales surge coming. Don't believe me? Make some phonecalls and check for yourself."

    Well I just popped downstairs to Gamestation and they have loads as does Amazon.

  • 2099net #13 4 years ago

    "The winner is the consumer, and I think that's great. That's why we are not going to slag off Microsoft or Nintendo at all, because again it's rather like the trainer market: one year it's Reebok, next year it's Nike, and then suddenly it's Adidas; it's cyclical, but in the end everyone wins in five to ten years."

    What? Sony have been slagging off the competition just days/hours ago! What with Kaz and his "10 year plan" etc. And let's not forget all the claims of Xbox 1.5 and the dismissive "The Next Generation doesn't start until we say so!" claims. Good lord, does he really believe we've all got memories of a goldfish?

    It's not a bad interview though, noticable for no reference to Blu-ray! throughout - at last a gaming executive talking about gaming! However, little is actually said. And considering how low disc drives were (we all know about the crappy exchange rates) and how much of a premium we were being asked to pay for European PS3s, the explaination about "why now" for 80GB drives doesn't hold much water. The real reason of course if because Sony Europe will soon be selling and renting movies online - trust me, otherwise Sony would have been happy to keep giving us 40GB drives.

  • el_pollo_diablo #14 4 years ago

    Why were all the questions about Microsoft?

    I mean, with interviews like this is it any suprise the comments threads are full of pointless platform bickering.

    edit: re-reading that, maybe that was a bit harsh. But you get my point.
    Edited by 1 at 22/07/08 @ 14:17

  • berelain #15 4 years ago

    @ GChris / Aldo14

    I know what you're saying, but this pretty much implies that older games (especially 3rd party ones) won't be launchable through Home, so... what? You'll have to drop back to the dashboard, leave the group of friends you've just formed, and launch the game from there? It seems rather contradictory to the idea of Home being such a social, media and gaming hub.

    The real blinder MS pulled with the 360 was having things like achievements, LIVE and gamertags integrated into the system from the start. Sony's addition of trophies was welcome, but with a total count of about 1 game currently supporting them they feel rather pointless and meaningless.

    If Sony don't get the integration with Home right, it could end up the same way,...

  • Chufty #16 4 years ago

    Pointless platform bickering gets page hits.

  • Killerbee #17 4 years ago

    On the PS3 stock shortages, the three branches of GAME in Birmingham city centre have been out of stock (barring occasional shipments of one or two units) for a number of weeks now. I was having a chat with one of the guys who works in the store about it, and he said demand was pretty high at the moment.

    If stocks of the 40GB run down between now and August 27th, there's likely to be a fair bit of pent up demand once the 80GB launches, so it makes sense for Sony to make sure they can cater for that on day one of the new SKU.

    The comments about delays for localised versions of games is a very important one - I really don't see why Sony can't put the UK, Australia and New Zealand into the "English language" grouping along with the US. It's not like we get Queen's English localisations anyway ("Medal of Honor" anyone?) so the wait doesn't add value to those markets. I sympathise with German / French / Spanish / etc speaking gamers, but chances are, some of those people would be happy to play a game in English anyway.

  • Chufty #18 4 years ago

    Any reasonably well written piece of software will be able to interpret command parameters - console games are no different. It will be a simple enough patch to any game to launch straight into a multiplayer game and connect to a specified server.

    What he's talking about is presumably a tighter integration of the game itself into the Home environment - it's failry obvious that this would need specific support by the developer.

  • Darren #19 4 years ago

    Eurogamer: Why do the 80GB PS3 in Europe now?

    David Reeves: I think the honest answer is that the 80GB hard drive hit a price - a procurement price - at a point where we said "yes, we'll take it now".

    And no doubt the increase in developers' reliance on 2-5 GB HDD installs to bypass the slow access speeds of the Blu-ray drive also has something to do with this decision? ;)

  • Masarin #20 4 years ago

    @Bagpuss: You're now officially on my ignore poster list. No need to reply. I won't see it. :-)

  • Masarin #21 4 years ago

    "It's a way to do it, isn't it? You never know. It's the kind of crazy thing that Microsoft might say, "Yeah okay Sony, we'll do that." Considering how much we pay for all the stuff we put onto Vaios for them."

    Com'on old man. It us, the consumers, who pay for that stuff you put onto your extra-expensive computers.

  • MuppetThumper #22 4 years ago

    @Brokenkey - he was making an analogy to the competition between Airbus & Boeing

  • Kenshin001 #23 4 years ago

    "David Reeves: In an ideal world I think you're right, that we've got to get more to day-and-date. When the US launch, we could launch in Australia and we could launch in New Zealand and the UK, but if we did that then our colleagues in Italy and France and Germany and Spain would not be very happy, so we've chosen to stick to the strategy of doing it pan-European and pan-Australia and New Zealand."

    That is silly Sony logic. Can't see how it would be any different to the unhappiness now knowing US owners are getting it before everyone else. So punish everyone instead instead of rewarding the few.

  • oreillymj #24 4 years ago

    Has anyone found any solid information on whether this is just a larger 80gb HDD, or does this new model come with the 65nm RSX chip.

    I've €200 worth of HMV vouchers burning a hole in my pocket and I'm seriously thinking of getting a 2nd PS3 80Gb Premium. Don't want too much wear and tear on my 60gb (upgraded to 320b) launch day Elite.

  • Moonprince #25 4 years ago

    Kenshin001 - it takes 5 mins to set up a USA account and you seem to be able to speak / read English sooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo ooooooooooooooooooo....

    MAYBE

    MAYBE

    Sign up for....

    No, forget it.

  • drumbaby #26 4 years ago

    "@ Evilfoxhound: My local Game and Gamestation stores have plenty. "

    Good job these local branches service the whole of the UK, I guess...

  • alimokrane #27 4 years ago

    @evilfoxhound

    Keep that advice to yourself. So in your view, shortages at retail stores qualify as shortages everywhere ?? How dumb and fanboy blind is that.

  • Skywise #28 4 years ago

    He seems like a worthy successor to Phil, although I like the Sony execs more who make the wacky comments.

    I think in a few years time, Phil Harrisson shall be remembered for the great push towards the casual market and the huge growth of the industry. He's a great visionary but that won't make me buy the Atari games ;-)

  • Rash' #29 4 years ago

    Darren wrote: "And no doubt the increase in developers' reliance on 2-5 GB HDD installs to bypass the slow access speeds of the Blu-ray drive also has something to do with this decision? ;)"

    For your reference:

    Keith Stuart (from Guardian blogs) wrote: "Good point, but not 100% technically accurate. There are ways developers can ensure data can be adequately streamed form Blu-ray disc without dumping the whole thing on the hard drive. Some duplicate data around the disc, others cache relevant chunks on the fly while the game is running (Wheelman and Fallout 3 both do this). I've just written a feature on this very subject and spoke to lots of developers about it."

    I've asked him for the feature but he refuses to respond.

    Link: http://bl ogs.guardian.co.uk/games/archiv...

    Like I continue to say, lazy devs are making the hardware accountable when that isn't the case.
    Edited by 1 at 22/07/08 @ 15:04

  • asphaltcowboy #30 4 years ago

    He seems like a worthy successor to Phil

    He isn't Phil's successor...

  • berelain #31 4 years ago

    @EvilFoxHound "There is a massive shortage and nowhere has them"

    The guy listed some Online retailers. I gave local stores. Why dont they count?

  • Rash' #32 4 years ago

    blig_merk, With all due respect, Criterion, Infinty Ward, Bethesda and Codemaster's are all thrid party devs and neither have needed to resort to HDD installs to make their games work to the equivalent of their 360 counterparts, so I have a little sympathy but not a lot.

    Having said that, with Insomniac not ruling out HDD installs for R2, maybe we should wait and see a little longer before squarely pointing the blame.
    Edited by 1 at 22/07/08 @ 15:22

  • aldo_14 #33 4 years ago

    I know what you're saying, but this pretty much implies that older games (especially 3rd party ones) won't be launchable through Home, so... what? You'll have to drop back to the dashboard, leave the group of friends you've just formed, and launch the game from there? It seems rather contradictory to the idea of Home being such a social, media and gaming hub.

    Well, surely (for lack of a better term) the game would need to support Homes (or sonys) matchmaking code to group you and your friends together when it launches, anyways? Assuming that's what you mean (i.e. 'pre-grouping').

    I'd think it's pretty much trivial to add a 'button' that launches the current game (in the drive - maybe more complicated for DLC) from within Home, but it's not really adding anything - it's just another way of leaving the 'hub' unless there's that integration to group together in multiplayer (etc).

    My reading of what he (Reeves) said was that he was linking the Trophy system, etc, into the definition of 'launching' though, anyways, rather than merely starting the game. Of course, it could also be a deliberate strategy to 'encourage' developers to support Home integration.

  • Darren #34 4 years ago

    Rash' - Hang on... Bethesda's PS3 port of Oblivion used a 4.4 GB "stealth" install to the HDD... I know because I have the game. Sure, you don't have to wait 10 minutes for it to install (which is nice) but that's not really the point I was making... I was referring to how so many PS3 games use valuable HDD space seemingly unnecessarily not the length of time needed to install data.

  • Dizzy #35 4 years ago

    "Like I continue to say, lazy devs are making the hardware accountable when that isn't the case. "

    Then again maybe it was lazy hardware designers?

    Good for MS that no devs are lazy on their hardware. What a stroke of luck.
    Edited by 2 at 22/07/08 @ 15:26

  • Rash' #36 4 years ago

    Darren: I question whether your implication that developers' increasing "reliance on 2-5 GB HDD installs to bypass the slow access speeds of the Blu-ray drive" is a hardware issue or a developer one.

  • mcbi4kh2 #37 4 years ago

    Then again maybe it was lazy hardware designers?
    The hardware is capable, as COD4 and others have proven.

    I dont see why people make such a big deal about hdd installs, loads quicker and runs quieter. A great feature.

  • Rash' #38 4 years ago

    Dizzy, Lazy hardware designers or forward thinking ones??? ;o)

  • Rash' #39 4 years ago

    "He's here! LOL"

    / looks above.

    LOL!!!

  • mcbi4kh2 #40 4 years ago

    @farticusmaximus

    3 things;

    Have you ever heard a 360 in full flow? Sounds like a fuckin tank. That should be justification in itself of using a hdd install.

    80GB = at least 10 installs (probably closer to 20) how many people play 10 games concurrently? Im guessing none.

    Its not a limitation of the hardware, there are many games that can stream data off blu-ray intelligently . Dev's consider it easier to just install it to the hdd.

  • SeesThroughAll #41 4 years ago

    Fucking awful argument. Badly designed hardware causes excessively slow loading speeds causes excessive space to be used on the HDD and you are perfectly happy with 'buy a new HDD'

    What about all the stuff you had stored on the HDD you replace? Redownload it, copy it in a PC... both time consuming and out of reach for your average non-nerd gamer.

    Fucking awful argument. Badly designed hardware causes excessive heat and RROD, cheap DVD drives cause excessive noise leading to the new option to rip games ISOs to the HDD to come in a future firmware and you are perfectly happy with 'buy a new overpriced proprietary HDD'?

  • sanctusmortis #42 4 years ago

    @evilfoxhound: Never been out of stock in Newcastle. That's a very big city.

    He doesn't seem too bad there; acceptable, even. I think he's dreaming if he thinks the business is cyclical, though; it peaks and troughs with big releases, or in Nintendo's case hardware stock availability, but normal sales will usually stay constant bar price change hiccups.

  • Rash' #43 4 years ago

    farticusmaximus, are you Headbog's evil twin???

  • ThePissartist #44 4 years ago

    Is this guy English? He seems to have a degree of modesty about him - very odd for PR.

    Either he's British, or he's playing to British sensibilities.

  • mcbi4kh2 #45 4 years ago

    @farticusmaximus

    I see you have no constructive counter argument to my post and therefore have limited yourself to the generic PS3 has no games response. Kind of true 12 months ago, now just complete nonesense.

    You play 10 different games in a week? Good luck to you, I wish I had that much time.

  • SeesThroughAll #46 4 years ago

    @ Rash': Wouldn't be able to tell which is the evil one, would I?

  • KayJay #47 4 years ago

    "You play 10 different games in a week?"

    One of them is "Surf's Up"... :-)

    Not sure I can take anything farty says seriously now. ;-)

  • moggsy #48 4 years ago

    @ mcbi4kh2

    I see you have no constructive counter argument to my post and therefore have limited yourself to the generic PS3 has no games response. Kind of true 12 months ago, now just complete nonesense.

    It's not though is it?

  • JonFE #49 4 years ago

    When your most valuable high-profiled 3rd-party exclusive game resorts to multiple installs (one before each act), blaming "lazy devs [making the hardware accountable when that isn't the case]" is a bit rich in my opinion...

    Especially when you praise other developers who rely on *tricks* (like duplicating data around the disc) to circumvent the same *problem*...
    Edited by 1 at 22/07/08 @ 16:00

  • winnah #50 4 years ago

    @Darren
    They aren't as slow as your mum

  • Rash' #51 4 years ago

    winnah, oh very clever. >:(

  • Rash' #52 4 years ago

    SeesThroughAll, The greater of two evils? I couldn't. Right now, fart' gets the award, though mostly for comic value.
    Edited by 1 at 22/07/08 @ 16:02

  • ps3owner #53 4 years ago

    Whoa darren! he just pwned j00...he is such a winnah

  • mcbi4kh2 #54 4 years ago

    @moggsy
    best fps(COD4) on both
    best RPG(oblivion) on both
    best racer(forza / GT5:p) I liked them both, features and online better on forza. Handling better on GT plus the graphics are at times stunning in 1080p (can xbox do that?)
    best stealth(MGS4) PS3
    best action (GTA4) on both
    Warhawk is the most fun Ive ever had on a console game. Only £20 aswell.
    UT3 user modded content is awesome as is uncharted)

    Considering all the best games are usually on both, how can liking ps3 games be any worse than liking 360 ones.
    Secondly why are you even posting on a ps3 topic if you dont like the ps3?
    It would be like me going to an RPG board and saying 'you guys are all nobs, RPGs are shit play a FPS for fucks sake'. I dont like it so I ignore it, why can't you do the same!?
    Edited by 1 at 22/07/08 @ 16:08

  • mcwildcard #55 4 years ago

    "You enjoy PS3 games, so I consider your opinion on what is good and what is not worthless."
    Wow, you're a major dickhead.

  • eepic #56 4 years ago

    everyone else but farticusmaximus is a fucking nigger.

  • LetsGo #57 4 years ago

    "The PS3 has no games"

    "DELAYstation"

    "HomeLOL"

    "PS3lol"

    ....yet Sony have sold more PS3's in Europe than MS have 360.

    /facepalm Microsoft

  • Rash' #58 4 years ago

    JonFE, That's a fair point though in fairness what is "duplicating" to you is a solution to me.

  • Chufty #59 4 years ago

    I thought the average age of a European gamer was in the mid 30s?

    Clearly not true if this thread is anything to go by.

  • ThePissartist #60 4 years ago

    So, what do people think of the article?

  • winnah #61 4 years ago

    farticusmaximus has aspergers....lawl

  • ps3owner #62 4 years ago

    aspergers

    Aspergers Syndrome is a disorder similiar to Autism. Persons with AS show marked deficiencies in social skills, have difficulties with transitions or changes and prefer sameness. They often have obsessive routines and may be preoccupied with a particular subject of interest. They have a great deal of difficulty reading nonverbal cues (body language) and very often the individual with AS has difficulty determining proper body space. Often overly sensitive to sounds, tastes, smells, and sights, the person with AS may prefer soft clothing, certain foods, and be bothered by sounds or lights no one else seems to hear or see

  • JonFE #63 4 years ago

    Rash', there's no need for a "solution" if there is no "problem" in the first place, that's all I -and Darren I suspect- are saying...

    It may not be a big problem, it may not affect all games, but I'd hazard a guess that there's more to it than just "lazy devs".

    PS. Mind you, I'm not claiming that the x360 is, in any way, immune to it, besides its drive's high speed (and noise level :).
    Edited by 1 at 22/07/08 @ 16:24

  • JonFE #64 4 years ago

    blig_merk:

    I agree and hope that MS will drop its 120 GB hard disk price to a more reasonable level - I'm not holding my breath though :)

  • moggsy #65 4 years ago

    @ mcbi4kh2

    Secondly why are you even posting on a ps3 topic if you dont like the ps3?

    When did I day I didn't like the PS3? Just commenting on the fact it doesn't have much in the way of software at the moment. Your short list of excellent games doesn't really change that fact. E3 didn't really change that fact either.

  • Rash' #66 4 years ago

    JonFE, There is this insistence that one hardware principle applys to all and that is where I become frustrated. We've all known from the beginning that PS3 was built with different principles in mind and yet posters such as yourself continue to imply that because these principles throw unconventionally hurdles, it is a problem that shouldn't be there. But it's fine. You are welcome to side with convention, while I'll continue to believe that ultimately Sony's design choices will pay dividends in the end. And as you rightly point out all hardwares have quirks that devs need to grow accustomed to so it's hardly a "big problem".
    Edited by 1 at 22/07/08 @ 17:10

  • JaysonG #67 4 years ago

    You should have asked him to bring back BC

  • Godhather08 #68 4 years ago

    "Sony beer"

    Maybe it'll stop Eurogamer from sipping so much of the Microsoft Kool-Aid...

  • mcbi4kh2 #69 4 years ago

    @moggsy That not liking comment was posted to that other guy, kind of answering two posts in the same thread. Thats a short list of excellent games that I own, Im sure there are others.

    What is X360's long list of excellent games then not including the ones I have already said? I can only think of GOW, Bioshock that I wish was on the PS3 (Bioshock soon to be reality) Halo isn't great in my opinion.

  • JonFE #70 4 years ago

    Rash', pardon my ignorance, but what does "principles" have to do with anything? It's a well known fact that optical media such as the CD, CD-RW and DVD all had teething problems when first introduced as far as seeking times and transfer rates were concerned and I honestly expected this to apply to BR as well. As the technology matures these problems will be reduced, so when 2nd and 3rd generation drives are available loading times will probably not be an issue.

    I'm not questioning Sony's design choices here, nor am I suggesting that forced installs are unacceptable; I only took offense by your original "lazy devs" comment (do you include Kojima in that list, by any chance?) and I'm just pointing out that there would be no need for *solutions* (as you, yourself, called the data duplication) if there wasn't some kind of a *problem* - you can't really accept the one while denying the other :)

    As for why it doesn't apply to all cases, I think it's easy to assume that the amount of data that must be read differs between games for various design reasons, so what was essential in the case of MGS4 wasn't for Uncharted...

  • mkreku #71 4 years ago

    They had the GT5Prologue on the demo machines here in my home town and even on the 32" TV they were running it on, it looked absolutely amazing. It did not "framedrop" or tear at all when the kids were playing it. I never tried it myself so I don't know about the handling, but that was not a problem in GT4 (which I have on my old PS2).

    Judging from farts hatred against a piece of equipment (Isn't that kind of weird though? Why hate a machine? It's not a Terminator, you know..), I'd say he never actually played it.

  • mcbi4kh2 #72 4 years ago

    Fucking hilarious mate, thanks for that. Been a long stressful day at work and that was just the laugh I needed.
    Yeah, it seems like you have had a long stressful day at work judging by the quantity of your posts on here.

    GT5 graphics on 1080p are awesome, fake laugh all you want.

  • Dizzy #73 4 years ago

    "GT5 graphics on 1080p are awesome, fake laugh all you want. "

    Please never post here again... you should get a stand up comedy act. Sprite trees and a picture as a backdrop only look good on screenshots as someone has suggested.
    Edited by 2 at 22/07/08 @ 17:43

  • mcbi4kh2 #74 4 years ago

    Utter nonesense, I cant be bothered to argue. You clearly know nothing about cars.

    You are boring me now. Ignore poster will be pressed in 5 seconds.

    Not you Dizzy, but you are close. Read the reviews, every source applauds the graphics. But what do they know, Im going to listen to fanboy nonesense on a comments page instead.
    Edited by 1 at 22/07/08 @ 17:46

  • megastar #75 4 years ago

    my goodness, farticus maximus is a complete sad little tosser isnt he??

  • Connobi #76 4 years ago

    Lol @ Home!

    I used to like Sony, but they pi** me off when they announce stuff, like 4 years before it comes out. & then keep going on about how good it'll be when it (eventually) comes out!

    Sony - get a grip. I want to play stuff now or the near future - not in 12 months time or worse. Oh, & put B/C back into the PS3. Coz I know you read these comments & take them on board.

  • winnah #77 4 years ago

    farticusmaximus is FAIL

  • smurphs #78 4 years ago

    "Considering how much we pay for all the stuff we put onto Vaios for them."

    I guess he's talking about oem copies of Vista on the machines? I kind of thought they put that on because consumers demand it (mostly, apart from oddballs like me who'd rather have Linux pre-installed). Turns out they put Vista on as a favour to MS. Who'd've thought it eh?

  • wewillselfdestruct #79 4 years ago

    @ farticusmaximus

    Pretty sure that's subjective. I've no complaints about my PS3.

  • winnah #80 4 years ago

    "Because I speak the truth and choose a superior gaming platform? Strange logic.. "

    FAIL!

  • Feanor #81 4 years ago

    Should have asked about BC, even if the answer would have been bullshit.

  • winnah #82 4 years ago

    "Your eloquence obviously wins this battle. So whats it like to have the intellect of a gnat?"

    FAIL!

  • kopykatt #83 4 years ago

    Farticusmaximus. I get the feeling you just like to wind people up. As a 360 owner (looking forward to Fable 2) and a PS3 owner (loving MGS4) I can say they both have positives and negatives and I love gaming. What I hate are idiots - which you are.

  • Kenshin001 #84 4 years ago

    "Because I speak the truth and choose a superior gaming platform? Strange logic.."

    No you fail because the last game you played was Surf's Up.

    FAIL!

  • Darren #85 4 years ago

    Rash' - "Darren: I question whether your implication that developers' increasing "reliance on 2-5 GB HDD installs to bypass the slow access speeds of the Blu-ray drive" is a hardware issue or a developer one."

    Why the developers do it is irrelevant, the point is that they DO. If the PS3 version was the only one then I wouldn't question the practice but it's telling that many multiformat games that require HDD installs on the PS3 like GTA IV, Oblivion, Devil May Cry 4, etc., only have marginally slower loading times on the 360 where games obviously run from a 12X DVD drive. If BD really is slow then why doesn't Sony allow the release of multiformat games on DVD which will then load faster without the need for installs for those "lazy" developers who can't be bothered to optimise their code (I believe the PS3 can read DVDs at 8X); it's not like these games use the extra space on a BD anyway!

    Now I'm not opposed to developers using the HDD if it genuinely does benefit the game and gives the PS3 a clear advantage over the 360 like the original Xbox did over the PS2 or it's optional but, so far, I've seen no evidence of that at all in any of the 20 odd games I own and even MGS 4, which comes on a dual-layer 50 GB disc and fills some 33 GB of space, is broken down by installs between chapters which imply that the game could probably run on 5 DVDs on the 360 (5 chapters x 7.2 GB = 36 GB) with quicker loading times due the fact that on that format you wouldn't have to install the game! Of course, I'm only speculating and MGS 4 may be the only game that will ever have multiple installs but these multiple installs equate to "loading times" of 2-3 minutes... hardly an advantage really when swapping a disc would be much quicker!

    If developers are being lazy then it's up to Sony to "police" them and make sure that they're using the PS3 efficiently. After all it is them that presumably certify any game that gets released on the PS3. Seems to me that Sony's main reason for including BD in the PS3 was to promote the format for HD movies; it's consideration for games came second. I can't prove that but my instinct tells me that is true, especially as Sony seem to mention the PS3's BD playback as a selling feature of the machine more than they do its games!!! LOL

  • Dizzy #86 4 years ago

    "No you fail because the last game you played was Surf's Up. "

    At least you can check the games he is playing on EG.

  • DAN.E.B #87 4 years ago

    well i own both xbox360 and ps3 and i have to say my ps3 only ever gets switched on for dvds
    its the most expensive dust collector ive ever owned!

    ive never owned a console and never bought games for it until now!
    i think sony really need to do something soon or its EBAY for my ps3, ive owned it for seven months and i can honestly say ive never been so dissapointed in a console in the twenty years ive been a gamer.

  • Widge #88 4 years ago

    I owned a CD32... now THAT was disappointment...

  • bonker #89 4 years ago

    "I thought the average age of a European gamer was in the mid 30s?

    Clearly not true if this thread is anything to go by. "

    IQ, not age.

  • JonFE #90 4 years ago

    Darren, I think it's pretty safe to assume that the choice of BD as PS3's optical media had to do with both Sony's ambition to establish their HD movie format and their desire to future-proof their console for their long term 10-year lifespan. However, if you ask me which of these two factors weighted the most in their decision I'd say the former. Losing another media war would be too much...

    BTW, I loved your MGS4 logic ["[i]...which imply that the game could probably run on 5 DVDs on the 360 (5 chapters x 7.2 GB = 36 GB)...[/i]"]. Let's hope Kojima-san feels the same way :)
    Edited by 1 at 22/07/08 @ 21:15

  • Law07 #91 4 years ago

    LOL at fanboys.

  • BadByte #92 4 years ago

    "Eurogamer: Why do the 80GB PS3 in Europe now?"
    That question should rather have been "Why can't Sony stick to one (1) PS3 version ? and go with it untill you're ready to launch PS3 Slim edition"

  • mcbi4kh2 #93 4 years ago

    @corroonb

    Have you read the comments preceeding yours? This is hardly the place to discuss technical issues such as the PS3's architecture. The lack of memory isn't a design flaw in my opinion, it just needs a different philosophy to code for. As they say, the proof of the pudding is in the eating, MGS4 in my opinion showcase s the potential of the PS3. The best graphics ever seen on a console, whilst maintaining a steady frame rate showing the architecture is far from flawed.

  • mcbi4kh2 #94 4 years ago

    The PS2 had an architecture that was different to the norm and developers had trouble getting to grips with that aswell. Now it has the largest library of games available (past & present).

    Sony seems to think that Power PC architecture is the best for games, and who is to argue with them. There first console became the best selling console of all time, only to be out done by the PS2. The Vram in the PS2 (if I remember correctly) was also small.

    The PS3 has a similar philosophy to the PS2, have lots of units and for good performace they MUST be kept busy. Developers have, and will get used to the PS3.

  • mcbi4kh2 #95 4 years ago

    Read this article if you are interested in the architecture http://ww w.ibm.com/developerworks/power/... its a good read if your into that sort of thing.
    I still don't think that the full potential of the PS3 has been reached yet.

  • Rash' #96 4 years ago

    JonFE & Darren, You offered "duplicating" with distain, while I suggested "solution" as an alternative interpretation to "tricks". I didn't question whether there was a problem, as far as I recall. Maybe our definitions of the problem are different. For me it's about devs ability to handle the quirks of the architecture convincingly. I accept that to generalise all devs that can't as lazy is unfair, but there's no getting away from the fact that DVD compliant games can be duplicated and/or cached on the fly from a BR disc to remove the need for HDD installations. So yes I agree Sony needs to take responsibility for educating devs (and yes DVD games for PS3 would be the easiest solution) but I believe they've already started that process so lets see how things pan out.

    With regards to the ultimate reasoning behind the inclusion of the disc format, it's common knowledge that both Sony and Microsoft entered this race with the intention of winning the media centre war. So the reasoning for the inclusion of the format is completely in keeping with the strategy for the device, which we all bought into, especially those that invested early. Whether gaming was first or second on the list of priorities is irrelevant as the hardware meets it's strategic aims. What should be important as a gamer to me is whether Sony can deliver the content. Looking at the list of titles coming this year, I have no concerns.
    Edited by 1 at 23/07/08 @ 14:01

  • Rash' #97 4 years ago

    corroonb, Yes this year. I'd take Valkyria Chronicles, Motorstorm 2 and LBP over Banjo, Fable and Halo Wars any day. Resistance is at least looking to top Gears at multiplayer and PSN is gearing up with Wipeout, Fat Prince, Siren, Pixel Junk Eden, Flower and Ratchet. Are you kidding me?

  • smelly #98 4 years ago

    You lot dont half get your knickers in a twist dont ya?

    I have a 360..

    But as far as i can see, both machines are as good as the other. Both have pretty much the same games.. okay both have the odd exclusive, but for every "gears of war" on one, there's "little big planet" on the other.

    There's really nothing to tell them apart games wise (the only thing i care about).

    The only difference is.. if you want a bluray player and are prepared to pay the extra wonga.

  • Rash' #99 4 years ago

    smelly

    I'm just responding to corroonb's cynicism. I appreciate both consoles have some fab games. I would love to get my teeth into Left 4 Dead.

  • Rash' #100 4 years ago

    corroonb, As Mr. T once said: "Shut up, fool!"

  • StooMonster #101 4 years ago

    I still don't think that the full potential of the PS3 has been reached yet. Maybe, but similar story is true with 360.

    The PS3, 360 and Wii all share PowerPC architecture.

    The link mcbi4kh2 provided outlines the Cell has 1x CPU core with 2x threads (like a virtual dual-core) for general purpose computing and 8x SPU cores for vector processing (PS3 version actually has 7x core rather than 8x, and reserves another for OS so 6x SPE cores usable for development).

    360's processor has no vector processors in the chip but has 3x CPU core with 2x threads each for general purpose computing, this is like a virtual 6-core CPU and allows for hugely parallel processing.

    I own a quad-core PC with SLI GPUs and a Wii, but I might have to buy either PS3 or 360 for The Force Unleashed soon ... so have been doing my research. :)

  • Rash' #102 4 years ago

    corroonb, And I'm done with your trolling.

  • winnah #103 4 years ago

    "I'm just responding to corroonb's cynicism. I appreciate both consoles have some fab games. I would love to get my teeth into Left 4 Dead."

    lol u said "fab"

  • 3william56 #104 4 years ago

    Back to the actual article:

    "Yep. We thought we might sell it to Microsoft to put it in Powerpoint"

    SOLD! Sackboy presentations would sure liven up the meetings here.

  • Dizzy #105 4 years ago

    A lot of people here know absolutely nothing about computer hardware and software. They should read up a bit before posting nonsense and no, reading some fanboy shit on Internet websites does not count as technical information. I am not getting into this technical debate AGAIN.

  • timberwolf #106 4 years ago

    valkyria chronicles is about the only sony exclusive that interests me... but i can think of about 5 on xbox 360. :(

  • WickedDeeJ #107 4 years ago

    I still would've been much more impressed by this 80GB PS3, if it'd been the version currently shipping with the US MGS4 bundle. YOu know, a backwards-compatible one.

    Well, one can always hope that Sony has a team of engineers working on a self-enclosed PS2 software emulation suite that will be able to run on the PS3 without PS2 hardware.
    Edited by 1 at 23/07/08 @ 08:32

  • mcbi4kh2 #108 4 years ago

    Forget it.
    Edited by 1 at 23/07/08 @ 08:17

  • Rash' #109 4 years ago

    RE: backwards compatibility.

    Do know why interviewers don't ask about bc when speaking with Sony exec? Nobody cares! You should have bought the system when the opportunity was there.
    Edited by 1 at 23/07/08 @ 11:30

  • JaysonG #110 4 years ago

    I care and it's probably the main reason why I don't have a PS3 yet and I was once what you would have considered to be a Sony "fanboy"

    It's the principle of it. They kept giving Europeans to short end of the stick with their SKU's and it pissed me off, why spend money on a product where the company treat you like a second (or third in our case) class citizen and you can get 90% of the AAA content on a cheaper system?

  • DrDamn #111 4 years ago

    @Blig_Merk
    That's a fairly flawed argument. B/C is just one of the reasons you might buy a system. It's not a huge step to see that for some people a 360 is a better value proposition than a PS3 without PS2 BC, but that might not be the case if the PS3 did have BC? Actually scratch that most ways I look at it the 360 is a better value proposition whether the PS3 has PS2 BC or not. ;)

  • JaysonG #112 4 years ago

    I bought my 360 to play Xbox 360 games and to complete the Xbox games I hadn't played/finished yet.

    I didn't buy my 360 to play PS2 games, Sony told me (quite triumphantly) their new console would do it, so I was waiting for that. Pre-launch I was always planning to buy both consoles, but as I said before selling us an inferior product with no option get what was being sold in US/JPN bothered me so much I refused to buy one.

    BC on the PS3 is a significant concern for me because I still have PS2 games I want to play, my PS2 is in my loft somewhere and when I set it up through my HDTV it looks like ass (which I bought specifically for my PS3 and it's "True HD" revolution)

    If MS had hardware BC in the 360 and took it out for software BC in europe but charged the same price/more. Then they gave the rest of the world software BC but completely removed it for us, again charging the same price/more. I'd have the exact same complaint with them.

    In fact if Sony never trumpeted the importance of hardware BC before launch like they did or if they just didn't bother with BC at all I probably wouldn't be complaining now.
    Edited by 1 at 23/07/08 @ 13:46

  • SpeedyThing #113 4 years ago

    Not wanting to fan the flames (actually that's a lie!) but apparently according to metacritic the 360's games are better than the PS3s...

    [link url=http://www.gam esradar.com/f/which-console-does-best-and-worst-in-each-genr e/a-20080721122120562022
    ]http://ww w.gamesradar.com/f/which-consol...[/link]

    (runs for cover)

  • Velios #114 4 years ago

    I own both consoles.

    I HATE these marketing twats on both side of the fence slapping eachother with their version of events, it's completely lame, they are less mature and more deluded about reality than the people that play their games.

  • Rash' #115 4 years ago

    JaysonG, Then let it be a stop moaning. If you don't want one then don't get one, but sounds to me like you were well informed and so knew in advance that BC was being removed from the consoles (in Japan as well as Europe, so don't where you got the rest of the world didn't from). You had your opportunity to get one then and you didn't. Sounds to like your pig ignorance cost you the feature that was important to you. Rememeber when they were officially selling 60GB with two games for £350? You have no accuse dude, stop your pointless bitching.

  • darc #116 4 years ago

    I can't believe I'm jumping into another one of these threads - I mean really, if you like your console then all's well right? And if you don't then trade it in or whatever.

    But for sake of discussion the BC thing is really interesting to me, because Sony specifically sold this as a PS3 feature, whereas MS specifically said the 360 would not have BC. (At launch there were no plans for an emulator that I was aware, and changes in graphics hardware made h/w BC impossible.) Now, PS2 BC was important to me, because frankly I think the old Sony catalog is fabulous, whereas - this may surprise you - very few of the original XBox games interested me. (Just something to consider before I'm labeled an MS apologist, or, here we go again, "fanboy".)

    So when I had to decide between a 360 and a PS3, this was actually a BIG plus in favor of the the PS3. I hemmed and hawed and ultimately bought the 360 based largely on the so-called "EG bias" (aka "information";), and also price. Imagine my surprise when I found that the 360 would play most of my old XBox games. Then imagine my surprise when I started reading that Sony was pulling the plug on h/w BC. Imagine my surprise if I'd bought a PS3!

    Of course it's not really a big deal. A used PS2 costs less than a new game these days, so if you want to play old games, you can. It's mostly a matter of keeping your living room tidy. But I don't think it's proper to say that consumers shouldn't have expected what was expressly advertised. I see it from mfrs of music gear all the time: "Our product supports X!" ... "Oh, well, it will support X in 4-6 weeks!" And eventually... "Oh, well why did you buy our product if it didn't meet your needs?!?"

    Once more for the record, I'm not a (sigh...) "fanboy" and I don't hate the PS3. (Anyone who hates a hunk of black plastic really needs to seek help, same for anyone who hates a hunk of white plastic.) I might even buy one eventually. All the same, do what you say.
    Edited by 3 at 23/07/08 @ 14:34

  • JaysonG #117 4 years ago

    Rash:
    Thanks for the kind words.

    I do want a PS3 but I'll complain because I'm not getting what I want with it when others did, when the 60GB first dropped to £350 there were rumours they were clearing stock for the same 80GB BC model currently out in the US. By time I realised that wasn't the case I wasn't in a position to get one. Releasing a single SKU worldwide settles some of my grievances but doesn't help as none of them have that feature.

    And this is the internet, I'll complain if I want to.
    Edited by 1 at 23/07/08 @ 14:56

  • Rash' #118 4 years ago

    JaysonG, So you went on unsubstantiated rumour when the official line was BC was to be discontinued with 40GB model? Come off it! You got no grounds for complaint.
    Edited by 2 at 23/07/08 @ 17:38

  • JaysonG #119 4 years ago

    I never heard that official line.