E3: Sony motion controller revealed

By Dan Pearson Published 2 June, 2009

Purple-headed wand, 1:1 action.

Sony has waded into the motion controller arena, showing off a wand-like device during its E3 conference which looks to have a great range of applications to go with its 1:1 movement response.

Stressing that the prototype is very much a working engineering model, Richard Marks from Sony R&D whipped out a purple-headed rod that works with the PlayStation Eye to create a motion-tracking system.

The glowing ball at the tip of the wand is the key to the set-up, with the Eye locking onto it to judge space, movement and distance. During different applications this ball will change colour, picking up appropriate hues according to current context.

Marks, assisted by engineer Anthony Michelob, proceeded to demonstrate a range of different uses for the system, beginning with the simple and becoming more ambitious.

Sports, "the obvious " application, was first off the block, with Michelob flailing unathletically at tennis, base and golf balls with their respective sporting equipment, before connecting with a stylish stop-sign. Tracking appeared to be 1:1, and Marks made that claim a good few times too.

Weaponry was the next port of call, with a ludicrously large sword and mace popping up on the virtual display on-screen. Guns came next. After demoing a golden Desert Eagle from third-person perspective, we switched to first person, demonstrating the system's ability to host FPS gameplay, as well as indicating the "non-casual" potential

"Sub-millimetre accuracy" is the order of the day here, with 3D object-manipulation and handwriting illustrating the subtlety of the tool. The RTS genre was toyed with as well, unit-selection and movement being eminently possible.

It was back to war for the end of the demo, though, as two wands were employed as a sword and shield for melee combat, as well as shuriken and a bow for ranged destruction.

A little hint was dropped that the tech had been shared with devs already, as Marks claimed that "interest in the development community has been roused".

Expect it all to become a reality in spring next year. Excited.

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About Dan Pearson

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Comments (83) Latest comment 3 years ago

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  • nikobe #1 3 years ago

    Was one of the more fun and surprising parts of E3 so far, was about to shut the Sony video off before this.

  • jaywalker3010 Verified Mastering Manager, Square Enix #2 3 years ago

    Wonder how much they knew about Project Natal before they did this demo..

  • Domovoi #3 3 years ago

    Hur hur, whips out the purple headed rod, hur.

  • Razzajazz #4 3 years ago

    Best caption so far, you cheeky scamps! "Purple-headed wand", indeed". :p

  • Spydy #5 3 years ago

    Amazing possibilities.

  • StooMonster #6 3 years ago

    After market add-ons never work.

    If it's not in the boxes of the 20-million units they've already shipped, don't expect anyone with any kind of business brain to support it.

  • Cannibal #7 3 years ago

    I thought Japan banned rape games. How will this effect Sony's market for this?

  • Naboomagnoli #8 3 years ago

    They did make it clear that the current design is just for test purposes and is in no way the final build.

    Wasn't the tank he controlled the turret of actually driven around at one point? So there is a way of moving around?

  • smelly #9 3 years ago

    >After market add-ons never work.

    *cough* wii fit *cough*

  • Trinod #10 3 years ago

    erm... Wii Fit wasn't in the box...

    You just need good software....oh

  • Trinod #11 3 years ago

    argggh beaten to it!

  • Daithi #12 3 years ago

    Looks much further along than Natal, not as ambitious but seemd to work very well.

  • dominalien #13 3 years ago

    This was a surprise.

    On the one hand Natal is interesting because there's no controller at all, but on the other hand sometimes it's good to actually hold something.

    Exciting times are coming, regardless of which camp one belongs to :-D

  • Domovoi #14 3 years ago

    What's to stop you from just holding something with Natal?

  • woodnotes #15 3 years ago

    This looked so accurate that it seems far more usable than Natal.

    The best would be a combination of the two.

  • MORZTAN #16 3 years ago

    They and Microsoft will get an abysmal share of the Wii audience with these tools.

    They should focus on making hardcore games utilizing their motion control, and perfecting them. Something Nintendo has yet to do.

    You´ve got one year Nintendo... One Year.

  • imamazed #17 3 years ago

    NATAL>Purple Wand>WMP>SEGA Activator>Wii Remote

  • Naboomagnoli #18 3 years ago

    The bat and ball demo was atrocious (to be fair, imagine trying to hit a ball only by looking at it in the mirror), but everything else was full of win. The archery looked like a hell of a lot of fun, the painting/writing looked perfect and the general accuracy and potential application of motion/positional control is the best seen so far on a console.

    Domovoi - nothing. In fact Natal desperately needs a controller of some sort if it's to be effectively applied to standard games. Natal is more ambitious but also more niched.
    Edited by 1 at 02/06/09 @ 21:26

  • Canyarion #19 3 years ago

    I didn't expect this anymore, so it was a surprise. (I was playing Pokémon while watching... not much of a Sony player.)

    The hardware seemed to work really well. Their software was a bit simple though. I'd like to see how it all turns out.

    Of course it will never take off this generation, just like 360's Natal. Just too late.
    Even if they start bundling it with almost every piece of software (like Nintendo's doing with WM+), they can never attract the casual audience.

    But like Natal, it's a fun technology. The next generation of consoles will be very interesting...

  • SpaceMidget75 Verified Senior Software Developer, Minerva Computer Services #20 3 years ago

    "What's to stop you from just holding something with Natal? "

    Indeed. Natal offers colour and shape recognition so they could easily bundle a cheap plastic wheel for racing games or even release a stick the same as Sonys and have it track the glowing end.

  • MENTAL1ST Verified Senior Software Engineer, Picsel UK Ltd. #21 3 years ago

    It would look to me as if this device might be a bit more practical than Microsoft's, but Microsoft's was hooked up to 3 playable games - how come Sony only have very primitive tech demos?

    It reminds me of the sixaxis motion sensors, crammed in with little though to what they could be used for, so they're almost completely redundant as a result.

  • AphoticCosmos #22 3 years ago

    Serious motion control from both of the hardcore players should be used for hardcore games I think - you simply can't compete with the Wii for the casual market now. It's success is ridiculous - don't even try to emulate it.

    But I would at least like to see a decent FPS or RPG attempted using Project "Minority Report" Natal and Project "Can I show you my" Big Purple Head - both have their ups and downs and seem to be pretty damn reliable. If a dark, dank E3 booth can be an effective arena for both of these platforms, then there is a market in it for average joe gamer.

  • abelardie #23 3 years ago

    I'm a bit confused....

    Is this any better/different than WMP?

  • Lucien21 #24 3 years ago

    The main problem I see with this is that you need the playstation Eye as well as 2 controllers to make it look good. How much is that gonna set you back.

  • MENTAL1ST Verified Senior Software Engineer, Picsel UK Ltd. #25 3 years ago

    Of course it will never take off this generation, just like 360's Natal. Just too late.

    I wouldn't say so. There's been talk for some time of an 'HD Wii'. Perhaps the 'HD Wii' will actually come from Sony or Microsoft? Both companies, and the analysts have been saying this hardware generation will last longer than the previous couple, so there's probably enough time for a standard motion controller to take hold for PS3 or Xbox 360 like the Dualshock pad did on the original Playstation.

  • Domovoi #26 3 years ago

    Domovoi - nothing. In fact Natal desperately needs a controller of some sort if it's to be effectively applied to standard games. Natal is more ambitious but also more niched.

    Why? If you need a bat, just hold a bat. If you need a steering wheel, just hold a wheel. You wouldn't even need to buy a special Microsoft branded bat or wheel that fits your Microsoft wiimote. Why does it need a controller if you can just use any other object?
    Edited by 1 at 02/06/09 @ 21:32

  • Canyarion #27 3 years ago

    I've heard somebody suggest that this motion controller was a last-minute addition to the show. As if they had it as backup, in case MS and Ninty had impressive shows/techs.

    It would explain why the tech demos were so primitive. And why the guy was so nervous he couldn't talk properly.


    And ok, I guess if the generation lasts long enough, these technologies could really pick up. But I see it more as a nice way to practice for the next gen.
    How long before Natal and Sony's wand are ready for mass production? And at what price? 2010, maybe 2011. Natal is said to cost $200, although Sony's tech might be a lot cheaper.
    I don't see Nintendo releasing a Wii HD either. And even if they do, upgrading the graphics doesn't affect gameplay. Implementing motion control does.

  • dredd97 #28 3 years ago

    'It would look to me as if this device might be a bit more practical than Microsoft's, but Microsoft's was hooked up to 3 playable games - how come Sony only have very primitive tech demos?'

    Sorry playable games?? sorry mate that was a concept video, nothing more..at least sony had the balls to actually show tech demos...sure Lionhead have a nice tech demo for natal, but that's not a game..Natal shows promise...The sony dildo shows promise, but Sony's will be here next year...when's natal due??

  • des #29 3 years ago

    What has gaming come to,glowing dildos...lol

  • Machiavellian #30 3 years ago

    I am impressed but only a little. Sony has created their Wiimote + motion which is a good thing because from the demos it looks really solid but the problem is that you NEED the eyetoy and two controllers to work. The reason I see Natal as the better solution is that you can pare it with anything. You can use your gamepad and use Natal at the same time while with the Sony/Big N solution, you have to use their wands and thats it.

    Natal gives developers a lot more freedom to do whatever they want. They con bundle their own controller like RockBand and have Natal pick up each person body and have the motions translated to the characters in game. Since you have the facial mapping, you could also map the emotions and movement of the person face within the game, include following their lips for the singer. The best you could do with the Sony/Big solutions is have a slot for the wand in the guitar(already done) but this is very limited.

    The applications are pretty much unlimited with Natal and is truly the future. I like the fact that I can have a traditional controller but also leverage Natal features and I can see where this can easily be incorporated. Also the way Natal works, devs could easily provide Natal features to existing games like they have done with Burnout but instead trying to replace the stearing breaking etc, instead you get head tracking, body lean for little extra traction or something else. This cannot be done with Sony/Big N solution because you either do it all or nothing.

  • SaberEdge #31 3 years ago

    Definitely has some potential, but Natal was much more impressive.

    Still, I would take this over the Wiimote any day.

  • Naboomagnoli #32 3 years ago

    Why? If you need a bat, just hold a bat. If you need a steering wheel, just hold a wheel. You wouldn't even need to buy a special Microsoft branded bat or wheel that fits your Microsoft wiimote. Why does it need a controller if you can just use any other object?

    Are you asking why not swing a bat around in your living room?

    What about actually moving around? How do you run around in a first or third person game? Is there any indication this game can understand anything as sophisticated as pointing an object at the screen (this is a genuine question, I've only seen the car driving/godzilla/fighting trailer - which is all completely faked - and the much more believable paint throwing, ball stopping trailers).

    To those whinging about having to buy these controllers and the PSEye seperately.. about as valid as saying you have to buy a Wiimote and infrared sensor bar separately.
    Edited by 1 at 02/06/09 @ 22:02

  • axman303 #33 3 years ago

    Great stuff! This looked to me to be the most accurate and least laggy of all the motion controllers demoed so far. The 'Natal' appeared to be quite laggy, the Wii Motion Plus seems to have a very slight lag, but this seemed to be bang on.

    What is weird, though, is why it was demoed in such a primitive looking form. It's almost as if they've had their hand forced by Microsoft and had to introduce tech they were planning to roll out with the PS4. Very similar to how they had to rush out some form of motion control in the PS3 controller after Nintendo showed their hand. Only difference this time is that the Sony solution looks to be the best of the lot.

    This quality of motion control + an inventive HD first-person game = big win. Bring it on!

  • cheekyjay #34 3 years ago

    I think this has a lot of potential, and I'm glad that unlike with Microsoft, the camera I already have is being utilised as part of the motion control plan, rather than abandoned. Remember, all PSEyes do have built in microphones, so similar voice recognition application to that of Natal could easily be implemented. It may not have quite such accurate body part tracking or stereoscopic sensing, but with the right software, the camera could be more than capable of basic level facial recogniton. We all know the current camera isn't perfect, but this interim motion control device combo seems to easily match Wii's Motion Plus capabilities (remember the Wii also combines gyroscopic sensors with a camera of sorts - it's just that said camera is built into the tip of the Wiimote, is far lower-specced than the PSEye, and is simply used to detect the two IR 'flashes' emitted from the sensor bar, so this PS tech seems to work in a very similar way). I am extremely excited for the Natal, but do, like many, feel that the tech is very possibly a long way off, and that there are a lot of technical issues I have doubts about it overcoming, including, for many applications, the lack of a tangeable object with force feedback in your hands. This tech however is something that could potentially hit the market much sooner, bringing with it Wii-style games in HD (cue all the anti-casual grumbling!). Given it's technical similarities to Nintendo's equivalent, it could spell multi-format motion-control games, possibly with PS3 versions being the lead for some. Given the Wii's install base I would expect most multi-platform games we end up seeing (and I really do believe we will see many), actually being pretty low-cost higher resolution ports of Wii originals, but there are some great games amongst the mire of dross that is the Wii catalogue (Zack and Wicki, No More Heroes, DeBlob, Bloom Blox, Wii's version of Okami, House of the Dead Overkill) and I for one am excited by the prospect of these games not only reaching a potential wider audience, but perhaps gaining richer online elements, trophy support and sharper visuals.

    Let's not pretend the PS3 stands much chance of reaching critical mass at its current price point - it simply won't happen - but this product seems very likely to work well (or as well as the Wiimote at any rate!) and will help increase the console's wider appeal in ways the EyeToy alone was simply never able to. The fact that it resembles the Wii's tech far more closely than Natal does, also means ports and multi-platform motion control development will be fairly straightforward... and that is a good thing.
    Edited by 1 at 02/06/09 @ 22:02

  • Domovoi #35 3 years ago

    Are you asking why not swing a bat around in your living room?
    No, and you're changing the subject for some reason.


    Is there any indication this game can understand anything as sophisticated as pointing an object at the screen (this is a genuine question, I've only seen the car driving/godzilla/fighting trailer - which is all completely faked - and the much more believable paint throwing, ball stopping trailers).


    Since the ball stopping thing, the paint thing, and the avatar control thing all seemed to have the whole skeletal animation thing down, I'd say yeah, but it's early days, obviously.

    I see your point about moving around, though.

  • SeesThroughAll #36 3 years ago

    You can use your gamepad and use Natal at the same time while with the Sony/Big N solution, you have to use their wands and thats it.

    Considering that the waddles have buttons for triggers, they also serve the purpose of controllers.

    Have to say that the motion control part definitely was forced by Microsoft's Natal demos. The engineers jokes actually were funny though. Let those guys present next year's E3, please.

  • Machiavellian #37 3 years ago

    I believe people are wrapped up in the whole motion thing, that you have to move your entire body to use Natal but you forget that it can map to any part of the body not just the complete anatomy. It can be set to only map to your hand and fingers. With the full skeletal mapping, Natal can be just as percise as the demoed PS MC or Wiimote +. I have seen a demo where the device was mapped to just a single finger. I am sure the full body takes a lot of processing but limit it to just the head and hands and things get a lot better.

  • callum9999 #38 3 years ago

    Haven't seen the video but Microsofts version seemed much more impressive based on that description (assuming, of course, it actually works as well as they say it does).

  • Raya #39 3 years ago

    Guys - Project Natal is just that - a project. Can't you remeber the PS3 announcements that stole E3 a few years ago... As always don't believe the hype till you see it for real.

    Still great tech and has great potential but it is different to wmp and sony's knob and hopefully will be used to it's strengths and not just to make 360 sports, 360 fit etc...

    The Sony wand just seems a me too answer. Sony plays catch up again. MS great tech but when and what. WMP here and now
    Edited by 1 at 02/06/09 @ 22:28

  • Machiavellian #40 3 years ago

    Considering that the waddles have buttons for triggers, they also serve the purpose of controllers.
    This is true but you are still limited to only using their motion controller. If the controller doesn't fit a particular situation then it because a hindrance. I only have to point out Mario Kart and Smash Brothers.

    Also, you are limited to the type of interactions you can perform with the wands. Lets take Metroid for example where you had to reach out and grab a device turn it to open certain doors etc. With the wand, you just pushed it forward and the game did the grabbing while you did the motion to turn. With Natal, you do everything which for some would be more immersing for others a pain the the butt (only using this as a example).

  • Naboomagnoli #41 3 years ago

    Domovoi - I misinterpreted you. You mean an imaginary bat of course.

    That is all very well, but I can't see anything like the accuracy of the PSmotes in the Natal. There is a bit of a lag from the looks of things and I really doubt the precision of holding an imaginary object compared to a distinct shape and reference point. This is why I assumed you meant holding a real object; something tangble is far easier for a computer to recognise with 1 to 1 precision than by looking at the posture of someone holding thin air.
    It looks good for less specific movements and looks great for general interactivity, but if pointing with your finger how would you fire a gun? Shout bang??

    @STKD - fair point! Rather neglected that. What I meant was that it's ludicrous describing the PSPenises as something you have to buy as well as the PSEye as a real hassle, as if getting them in a bundle (much like getting Guitar Hero and software, or a full Rock Band set, or even a new Wiimote and WMP) is a complete impossibility.

    You can use your gamepad and use Natal at the same time while with the Sony/Big N solution, you have to use their wands and thats it.
    Fair enough for voice recognition, but motion controls?? Are you going to pretend you're handcuffed all the time?

    Whatever happened to the plans, exactly like Natal, that Sony put out there for PSEye? Motion tracking etc?
    Edited by 2 at 02/06/09 @ 22:36

  • dredd97 #42 3 years ago

    Seems the sony ps eye 2 is quite a technical bit of kit...

    http://ga dgets.softpedia.com/gadgets/Tec...
    Edited by 1 at 02/06/09 @ 22:48

  • man.the.king #43 3 years ago

    @STKD

    "Having to buy a PS3, a PSEye and a motion control dildo is "practical". "

    Yes. Just as "practical" as having to buy a 360 and the Natal equipment.

  • Naboomagnoli #44 3 years ago

    STKD - Why is the PSEye and PSPenis cost separate though? If you were going straight into it, you'd buy both as a package, typically with free software a la Wii Sports. If you don't have a PS3 but want the full setup, you'll definitely be able to buy the whole thing as a package. Price is obviously a factor, but I don't think ease of purchase would be.

    I don't think anyone really expects this or Natal to boot the Wii into touch by a long shot. Typically any rivalry mentioned is between the PS3 and X360, which is what most of this thread's debate has been about.

    The point is that there is now an alternative to the Wii for those who want an HD equivalent as well as the more conventional games. People mention that hardware is only as good as it's software. This is definitely true. But there's a lot of scope for PSN games to play with this idea, and a number of third parties have now released at least one Wii game and have experience with the controls. The larger companies have tried all sorts of genres with the Wiimote; now they can at least consider mapping those controls over to some of their higher-tech versions.

  • GreyBeard #45 3 years ago

    I found it interesting that the guys demoing it were very keen on it being seen as a device hardcore gamers would get some use from. It actually shows that they are thinking about making it fit for purpose, rather than just a technical exercise.

    Seems to me a far better prospect than Natal, even if the tech seems superficially less impressive.

  • Xerx3s #46 3 years ago

    "Seems to me a far better prospect than Natal, even if the tech seems superficially less impressive. "

    How so? You mean because of the bow / sword thing? That could be just as easily be achieve with ms's system as this. It begs the question whether you want to or not. I'm perfectly happy with my controller. I've not seen a single thing with motion controls that couldn't be done better by just the press of a button and a joystick.

  • Emth #47 3 years ago

    They showed a driving game in the Natal demo, but how exactly are you supposed to accelerate with no buttons? Or brake? How does the camera know which one out of 5 people in the room is driving, what happens if people want to move? If someone starts waving their arms while talking expressively is that going to interfere? What happens if you're playing in poor light?

    What PROPER games can be played PROPERLY with this? Milo is a typical Molyneux over promise (which anyone who has been following him since the early Black and White days will be familiar with), and is clearly nowhere near as dynamic as he would have us believe.

    As for the Sony alternative, I have to admit I'm genuinely looking forward to playing a sword and shield game with that setup...

  • Machiavellian #48 3 years ago

    @Emth
    Go check out the Ellie interview where she did the burnout demo.
    What if someone move, Whats the difference between someone with the Wiimote and you move. Just as easy to say off with your voice and the tracking stops or say on and its back own or say pause and you move where you want to go.

    Since the device can do full body motion, I would think it keeps in memory who is where and since it constantly upates the information it probably would not lose who is where.

    No light needed for the motion tracking since it use IR so you could play in complete darkness.

    Another problem with the PS3 wand is that for multiplayer, you have to to purchase more equipment. Four players include and the price start to get steap.

    Natal (promises) multiplayer with the one device. No extra cost besides the camera.

    Another thing about the PS3 presentation which many have stated is that the demos were very simplistic. How does this work with a real game. Will it be that fast or will it exhibit the same latency that the other motion controllers have.

    The way I see it, if both technologies live up to their potential, then Natal wins hands down by a mile.
    Edited by 1 at 02/06/09 @ 23:49

  • SeesThroughAll #49 3 years ago

    The PSPenis lacks rumble?
    Epicfail yet again Sony. Kudos. Undoubtedly some people will now look forward to you offering that "outdated" feature in the PSPenis v2 model.

    You forgot about the mic. It also lacks the Wiimote microphone. Oh. Damn, the Eye has one.

    BTW, the Natal lacks rumble too. Unless Molyneux finds a way to electrify your whole body, right after Milo tells you that your shirt was his favorite colour. :p
    Edited by 1 at 02/06/09 @ 23:59

  • andijames #50 3 years ago

    Oh for crying out loud.

    Both sets of tech prove that there's potential for BOTH platforms. I would say it's far too early to tell yet which is best or which one is going to be better. All this has done is provide the fanboys with fresh ammo!

    Let's see how the tech pans out and which, most importantly, software developers make the most out of the capabilities and produce some inspiring games based on it.

  • rprince #51 3 years ago

    What? This is exactly how the first EyeToy was demoed. I remember reading articles about SCEA's R&D showing off a lit torch and a mace being moved around by holding 2 sticks with different coloured balls on the end. What difference does it make that the ball can change colour?

  • SeesThroughAll #52 3 years ago

    What? This is exactly how the first EyeToy was demoed. I remember reading articles about SCEA's R&D showing off a lit torch and a mace being moved around by holding 2 sticks with different coloured balls on the end. What difference does it make that the ball can change colour?

    This time, the sticks have motion sensors... and that's it. It seems make the thing a bit more precise.

  • Naboomagnoli #53 3 years ago

    STKD - we have no idea what else the controller has. It hasn't even been designed yet, beyond the motion tech. It may have rumble; it may have a speaker; it may be made of gold and neutralise farts with a squirt of summer glade fragrance.

    I'm too tired to continue, not least there are far too many assumptions and guesses flying around in this thread to address, and partly because it's bloody hot.

    edit: SeesThroughAll - there's more to it than that. The camera has a much better refresh rate for a start.
    Edited by 1 at 03/06/09 @ 00:32

  • StooMonster #54 3 years ago

    smelly: you are right. Doh!

    After market add-ons rarely work, saying that ... perhaps I ought to get with the 21st century and think of all those plastic guitars.

  • IneptPercy #55 3 years ago

    A while ago... Oh Nintendo has motion control.. quick add a half arsed version to the PS3 controller

    Now... Oh Microsoft have really got the camera thing sorted, quick modify something from ann summers.

  • Igo #56 3 years ago

    Sony's wand has been around in some form since the PS2. It's surprising they don't have full games for it yet.

  • Linkified #57 3 years ago

    You bundle this with PS3 Slim at Ł220-250 you get it into peoples hands you offer compelling content, etc.

    Project Natal though looks way more interesting as it will stop more plastic crap invading my bedroom.

  • dominalien #58 3 years ago

    I can easily imagine the purple blob being attached to the DS3 via the USB port.

    I suppose the purple blob is for tracking by the camera, and the handle contains tech like the sixaxis has to track the position of the handle relative to the ground.

    As for everything else and how the two (three) techs compare to each other, speculation is just that until they all come out and can be directly compared using real games.

  • Les #59 3 years ago

    "Now... Oh Microsoft have really got the camera thing sorted, quick modify something from ann summers."

    TBH it's rather the other way around. As others have already mentioned, this stuff has been experimented with in the EyeToy labs for quite some time. I bet MS added all the fluff to prevent accusations from ripping off EyeToy, though it clearly was the inspiration (as it was for the Wii-mote; Sony seriously dropped the ball here).

    But I can't see this or the MS effort emulating the success of the Wii. Though this hardware gen will be longer than it has ever been, the fact is that Sony and MS require add-ons and are not/will not be in the possession of each and every PS3/360 owner.

  • Vistrix #60 3 years ago

    "Milo" seemed more attractive because it was an awesome piece of software.

    In terms of games though, this Sony wand has alot more potential simply because its so precise. Id like to see a Microsoft rep hand write their name with Natal.

  • jaywalker3010 Verified Mastering Manager, Square Enix #61 3 years ago

    I have to say i do love the fanatics responses.. Now all consoles have got motion controllers of some form or other (or will do shortly)

    ONLY the Wii had it from launch and included, altho WMP is an extra so hmm if they were to bundle it in all new kits then wouldnt be so bad..

    Natal and PSPenis (definitely best name for it) are different ways to approach the `motion` controller concept.

    For people to dismiss out of hand the other unfortunately makes that person truly stand out as a fanboy, the worst kind too, the ones that dont see logic or sense or even reason. I mean Sony could have brought out a turd with a cable on it and some people would have said `there MS thats how u do it!` and you KNOW thats true people!

    Until i have a Natal installed or have used the PSp for myself then i will be sceptical on its accuracy and useability, but my GOD i look forward to trying them both out and making up my OWN mind, not being the sheep like fanboys are. :)

  • Teamallstar #62 3 years ago

    It seemed as though sony are clutching at straws now. This was almost embarrassing to watch!

  • neonemesis #63 3 years ago

    Like someone else already said, add-ons that come about after a console already been on the market for a while rarely take the world by storm. The Wii has been so successful because the whole remote set-up is a standard thing and forms the image that the console has. As good as the tech is, the 360/PS3 are unlikely to conjure up that same image.

    You only have to look at various disc add-ons/hardware boosting devices from the 90's to realise that this won't be as big as MS and Sony are hoping. I doubt they'll fail as such but...you know what I mean.

  • layleeloo #64 3 years ago

    BOLLOCKS. This sounds so pants.

    Why do consoles keep trying to capture every market? I have a wii sure, so leave the potion controls to that and I will play my pretty games on my PS3.

    What next - Wii starts doing high def gaming? What a croc.

    No thanks Sony.

  • jmg123 #65 3 years ago

    If you make a killer software application for a new and late to market accessory then people will come, look at wii fit. Trouble is I think that M$ new thingy will be more popular as it is a bit different, Casual gamers mostly don't care about the PS3, but bundle the M$ thing with the arcade 360 and it will be mildly popular. That said if sony come out with a few first party games with really slick integration with the PSPenis then hardcore gamers will buy it. All depends on the software really.

  • 3william56 #66 3 years ago

    Pity it's not Ninty - I just copyrighted Diiildo. :(

    My money's on this over Natal for 'real' (non gimmick mini-) games - with a one handed nunchuck type thumbstuck for movement (could also hold a DS3 in one hand), and a PSPenis for the gun, it could make a heck of a FPS rig - like Metroid, but with real pixel accuracy. Could finally topple Mouse and WASD as the hardcore control of choice.

    One thing not mentioned/ranted about so far. I'd take a wildly uneducated guess that this uses a lot less processor power than Natal; so more chance of Killzone 2 with the PSPenis + numbchuck-a-like than Gears and Natal running together, irrespective of the arguments about preference of the control scheme.

  • Les #67 3 years ago

    "One thing not mentioned/ranted about so far. I'd take a wildly uneducated guess that this uses a lot less processor power than Natal"

    Good point. As was mentioned in the Burnout interview, Natal performs a full body scan which has benefits (no calibration other than pointing the camera in the right direction or strange peripherals that you need to hold) but drawbacks as well: it's a rather processing intensive way of acquiring control input (took apparently 5/30th of a second in the Burnout example). Might not be a problem for casual games but in hardcore games (e.g. fighters) it might be quite significant lag.

  • GreyBeard #68 3 years ago

    @Xerx3s

    Actually I'm not sure the bow and arrow demo could be easily achieved with Natal.

    The way it works is to use a pulsing IR camera to bounce light off of the player and based on the time it takes for it to come back, extrapolate a position in 3d space based on that. This is great tech, But its drawback is that it needs every point being tracked to be fully exposed to the camera. If the player is standing face-on, fine. But side-on? How is it supposed to track the position of a limb that is hidden behind the player's body?

    On a smaller scale, it means that any movement needs to be visible clearly to the camera. So flexing a finger may be a recognizable input if you hold it out for the camera to see (like when using Natal to navigate the dash), but you need to turn your hand/arm to actually SHOW it to the camera. If your hand is turned to the side chances are the position of your thumb is going to obscure everything else. Same deal would apply with a "gun" peripheral, its unlikely to be able to see your finger move because its hidden behind the barrel, trigger-guard etc.

    Yes, an additional controller would get around this, but that kind of defeats the object imho.

    The ridiculous glowy balls on the Sony thing are there for a reason, they basically allow the camera to see where the controller is when its partly obscured allowing for more accurate tracking, especially in conjunction with the accelerometers /tracking gear in the controllers. And the there's the fact that the Sony penis/wand thing has buttons/triggers which can be detected irrespective of camera position, and comes in a pair allowing for a virtualized "front" and "back" hand/point to simulated. Very significant as with Natal it seems to me that it is incapable of determining one hand from another without some kind of secondary identification procedure.

    MS did a good job of hiding the obvious limitations in their presentation (like the facial recognition thing, which is monumentally unlikely to be able to get around simple day-to-day user variances like wearing glasses or not, haircut/facial hair changes), but that isn't to say they aren't there.

  • Ryze #69 3 years ago

    Looks good... GAMES?

    Sony, Sony, Sony.

  • Seoh #70 3 years ago

    i suspect this will offer more precise control and work better on gamers games compared with natal which i doubt you will ever be able to play resident evil with

  • MENTAL1ST Verified Senior Software Engineer, Picsel UK Ltd. #71 3 years ago

    How is it supposed to track the position of a limb that is hidden behind the player's body?

    The exact same thing could be said about the glans at the end of Sony's motion controllers, when moved behind one's body. Besides, since when does one draw back a bowstring by moving an arm behind your body?

  • Arwin #72 3 years ago

    I think that generally, the Microsoft device is more impressive. It apparently generates a 3D field much like those laser tools that can 3D scan an environment. That allows for a great deal of cool things to be done with it. Also, it can apparently 'focus' on certain objects. So it's precision capabilities can be used to scan the whole room with a certain amount of 3d points scanned, and then the next time you can tell the software to focus on the area where you located hands for instance and scan them in more detail. Now scanning the whole field of vision of the camera apparently takes 5 frames, and then focussing on something in particular can take more or less time, I'm sure.

    From the demonstrations its clear that they can take that 3d field and recognise and map objects, like a human body simplified skeleton (not sure how detailed they can get in practice straight up). They can focus on a face after some facial recognition and read emotions. And they can really scan in objects you hold up to the camera, which is pretty cool also. They can make a 3d map, and then read the actual RGB light to texture or paint the resulting 3d model - this was demonstrated a little already in the demo with the skateboard. The potential is pretty darn huge and awesome.

    However, there's going to be a bit of lag - if the device needs 5 frames to scan the whole area, then there's more time needed for interpreting the resulting data. I don't know how fast they can do that, and if this analysis can be done on the camera (would make it a little more expensive) or whether the data is sent to the 360 for analysis there, but this could add some more frames. Let's be optimistic and say that they can keep it within 7 frames. If we assume 60 frames per second, then we're talking about 117ms of lag.

    This is probably the main risk for some types of games, but doesn't have to be a real problem, and people's impressions of the live thing seem positive. A second potential problem is multi-player - online, the additional lag could become annoying. Also, offline, multi-player could make it harder to analyse the different players and is definitely going to decrease the available resolution that the players can be scanned with.

    I needed this introduction partly because the Sony motion controller discussed here is, apart from obtaining the 1:1 motion control, focussed primarily on reducing lag to a minimum. I wouldn't be surprised if response is practically instantaneous and lag-free - think well within a frame. Also, gesture recognition processing is probably something that can run on a fraction of an SPU, maybe even the system reserved or shared one, and isn't going to have any noticeable performance impact on games.

    There's an interesting additional advantage to Sony's approach though - it's very likely to be nearly 100% compatible with WiiMotionPlus. While this was a thought I've had earlier, just today I noticed an article on how the developer that provides the library for motion control on the Wii has already released a version for the PS3's controller, which includes the ability to simply 'record' a gesture that can then be recognised by the library and connected to a function. This means that developers
    who've invested time into developing a game for the Wii and particularly WiiMotePlus can very, very easily also release this for the Playstation (not to mention vice versa of course, but with WiiMotionPlus out now ... ).

    This is particularly important because none of these technologies are included with the console by default, so that the initial market is going to be very, very small. In that respect, Microsoft's camera may be going up against WiiMotionPlus and PS3MC combined. In reality this may not be as strict - I can imagine that there will be applications where the camera will be 'compatible' with what the PS3 and WiiMote is doing - MS could even release empty sticks or sticks with just rumble that you hold and that the camera focusses on exclusively, but still it's going to be interesting. I can definitely see the camera as default control method for the next-gen though ... the question is how successful WiiMotionPlus and PS3MC (which by the way should be more precise and less laggy than WiiMotionPlus) will be in the meantime.

    Edited by 1 at 03/06/09 @ 14:11

  • Rorsch #73 3 years ago

    OMG, sony presented a wand that can track your hand movement... dam, if only it was 2005

  • Dop #74 3 years ago

    This is Sony's cunning plan to get more women into gaming...

    "Darling, have you seen my new Playstation controller?"
    "Your... haaaahhh... what?"

  • Les #75 3 years ago

    "Besides, since when does one draw back a bowstring by moving an arm behind your body?"

    Have you ever tried the motion? The hand that draws back the bowstring is normally behind the hand that holds the bow, viewed from a front perspective.

    TBH I think Natan was originally intended to be a new control device for a 2D world like an OS desktop (might also explain the high processing overhead, traditionally not something MS worried about much when it comes to PCs ;) ). Corresponds with Peter M.'s comments about much of it originating from Windows technology. The 3rd dimension seems to be attached later to extend its use to gaming and I am sceptic to how well this will work outside the casual genre or maybe a niche like racing with relatively straightforward control motions.

  • JamieR #76 3 years ago

    Looks cool but It seems a bit hard to use the guy in the video couldn't even use it but still looks alot of fun not sure i like the 360 one in my own personal option at all looks like a eye toy i like the idea of you having something in your hand i saw them doing the driving game with the hands out trying pretending that in real don't feel right the whole idea is to be immersive but i can imagine it been better for some games like rez hd from the live arcade that be cool with it a problem with the ps3 i don't understand how walking would work in the games and as for wii i like the wii mote but not the system and it lacks hard core games i kinda wish the was just one console so you dont have to own so many >.< cos they all have their pros you have to have them all but the bow and arrow thing looked alot of fun how you can pull out arrow but also looks like something that would work on 360 too in my personal opinion for now the ps3 one looks better than the 360 looks more accurate but its really early

    at les
    sorry have dyslexia if you knew me well you would of expected worse
    Edited by 1 at 03/06/09 @ 16:45

  • Les #77 3 years ago

    sometimes punctuation can be helpful, even in the post-text message era...

  • makeamazing #78 3 years ago

    The main thing I saw with Natal was that it will be good at "seeing" arms and legs out wide from the body, like the demo of the woman, the games were all where the arms and legs are flying outwards. I truely suspect that its not going to be as easy as they have tried to show it. I suspect they have a technology that is like "In the Movies +" which still isnt what people are thinking it is, but MS did it to steal the E3 show. You cant blame them,...that way MS is in the news for having an amazing controller, lots of good press, but joe public wouldnt be asking "when is it released/how good it will be", Good old marketing :D

    The BBC website reviewed the PS3 controller and said it was a stable bit of kit, but was unlikely to be out by the spring.

  • Les #79 3 years ago

    "at les
    sorry have dyslexia if you knew me well you would of expected worse"

    No problem, but even though I'm trained in reading long legal sentences I struggled a bit to follow your comment. ;)

  • Naboomagnoli #80 3 years ago

    Seems to contradict a lot of what has been said about the Natal. However I don't think people should ignore the fact that live demos we have seen aren't nearly as sophisticated as Molyneux et al would have us believe.

    [link url=h ttp://news.cnet.com/8301-17938_105-10254684-1.html
    ]http://ne ws.cnet.com/8301-17938_105-1025...[/link]

    Project Natal, the Xbox 360's motion-sensing camera add-on, certainly has potential, but the promo video for it Microsoft showed off was purely a work of science fiction. In it, a happy family enjoys multimedia content, chats with friends, and plays complex interactive games without a controller, just using their bodies. The actual playable demos were a few generations behind that, more reminiscent of the Sony Eye Toy accessory for the PS2--the main example was a simple game where players bat a ball back at the screen by swatting at the air, with just enough lag to be annoying. We're very excited about the potential of this new motion-sensing, face-and-voice-recognizing, camera add-on, but for now the gulf between the reality and prerendered video is sizable.

    I really do hope it succeeds so that the next gen is heavily influenced by a potentially extremely emotive interface like this. I just think that controllers can't be negated, not even next generation, and I think people are rather attributing qualities to Natal that it doesn't have yet, and may never do, rather than focussing on the great things it could feasibly achieve. Sony's and MS's demonstrations were polar opposites to their respective E3 05 demonstrations, really - Sony's this time looked poor graphically but was at least real. Microsoft's was glitzy and far-sighted, but a lot of it is promise-based, rather than in the here and now.
    Edited by 1 at 03/06/09 @ 23:07

  • Les #81 3 years ago

    "However I don't think people should ignore the fact that live demos we have seen aren't nearly as sophisticated as Molyneux et al would have us believe."

    What is most disappointing to me is that the video game press first went into hype overdrive and now slowly starts to realize that what they've been shown is basically EyeToy. Natal might be a bit more sophisticated with the infrared camera to gauge depth better but that's about it.

  • smoothn00dle #82 3 years ago

    Project Natal is only partial demo.. a lot of thing we still don't know.. I would love they show the boy demo on stage but it is just video. The demo part is just like "You in the movie" last year.. nothing really new...

    The Sony control require gamer to buy a eye toy first... This is dirrty... money money

  • drxym #83 3 years ago

    Sonys motion controller will obviously be more accurate than either Microsoft's or Nintendos. I think Nintendo's solution is adequate, not 1:1 but close enough. I believe Microsoft's Natal solution is a joke and it will be clear its a joke when it stops being mockups. Anyone who has given a moments thought to the MS solution will realise how stupid it is in practice.

    That said, Sony's solution is going to be expensive. You need a camera and a controller. That alone could sink the project. Maybe they'll bundle the vaunted break apart controller with new consoles. Maybe they'll bundle the camera and controller for others for some affordable price. But if they don't then motion control is a waste of time.

    In addition motion sensing especially gestural control is often a complete waste of time. If I gesture a circle and the game doesn't detect it, I as a player get frustrated. Abstract gestures are gratuitous and silly. Keep the motion sensing for mappable actions and leave buttons for everything else.
    Edited by 1 at 04/06/09 @ 11:37