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SEGA VP: Repairing Sonic will take time News
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Tom Bramwell
SEGA's Sean Ratcliffe has said that Sonic's "quality is something that will be fixed over time" after a string of unsuccessful attempts to restore the hedgehog to his 16-bit glory.
"It's not something where you wake up one morning and say, 'You know what, we're going to improve our quality on this franchise,' and it magically happens," Ratcliffe, who is VP of marketing for SEGA of America, told IndustryGamers (thanks Kotaku). "A lot of hard work goes into striving for quality."
Sonic did quite well critically in its Dreamcast instalments, but things went wrong after SEGA went third-party, with the PS3 and Xbox 360 reboot Sonic the Hedgehog a particular low point.
Things got a bit better on the Wii thanks to Sonic and the Secret Rings, but Sonic Unleashed (including its marginally better Wii incarnation) was another mixed bag, as was Sonic and the Black Knight.
But Ratcliffe sees some positives in all this, pointing out that Unleashed "was very well received by the kids", who apparently liked the werehog option, slower pacing and emphasis on combat.
"I think older, die-hard SEGA fans who grew up with the franchise and the first Sonic the Hedgehog associate Sonic more with 2D side-scrolling super fast, and they liked the daytime gameplay, but when it came to the slower-paced gameplay they were fairly critical of that, and that's fine - they have their opinions," he said.
Despite Sonic's struggles though, there are plenty of bright spots for SEGA, like Mario & Sonic at the Olympic Games, one of the Wii's most successful new franchises, and critical acclaim for the character's DS outings, including Sonic Rush Adventure.
Ratcliffe has also been encouraged by the hedgehog's performance on download services like the iTunes App Store and Xbox Live Arcade, and believes that those platforms represent an opportunity to revitalise Sonic and satisfy people who preferred him in his youth.
"That's a big part of our strategy, in terms of taking classic IP and making it available digitally, rather than spend a huge amount of money trying to re-imagine that IP on 360 and PS3," he said. "There's a lot more financial risk attached to that."
Hopefully that means we'll see new 2D instalments on home consoles and not just handhelds, although Ratcliffe clearly wasn't promising anything. Sonic the Hedgehog 2 on Xbox Live Arcade, incidentally, is Ellie's favourite game of the last 10 years. Probably not even ironically.
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Comments: 1-36 of 36 in total
Poster
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squarejawhero
30/07/09 @ 08:29
+17
It's amazing that one man can say so much, and seem to understand so little.
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squarejawhero
30/07/09 @ 08:35
+22
In fact, so much of this article showcases what's wrong with Sega these days. They just don't get why they were the success they were before.
Kids like colour, speed, simple things. He's fooling himself if he thinks the strange mixture of gameplay was a good idea. What Sonic needs is large, open levels, speed, about, oh, say... three buttons (jump, crouch and lock) and there you go. Use a refined engine on Unleashed, get rid of ridiculous Hub worlds and make it levels. If you're going to use a hub, make it a map. No sub-RPG rubbish. For design, place in nothing but cartoon animals and robots, and get rid of this strange dark realistic bollocks that's plagued Sonic for the last ten years. It's a cartoon. Keep it that way. Make the set-pieces ridiculous roller-coasters where the camera slips to 2D as before, but instead of making it a barely controllable mess of guesswork, keep the player engaged in the platforming as they were before... slipstreaming routes together like they used to in Green Hill Zone. Mistakes just make you fall back to slower platforming, not death. I've said enough. Grr. |
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+7
"when it came to the slower-paced gameplay they were fairly critical of that, and that's fine - they have their opinions," he said."
Well you bloody well better listen to them you you arrogant tool! It's Sonic for Christ's sake, the term 'slower-paced gameplay' doesn't fit the ethos of that character at all! I guess the the slower-paced gameplay sections were left out of the demo for a reason! Oh and that's my opinion! |
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CountFapula
30/07/09 @ 08:53
+1
Really let's be honest now, he's got a point, sonic is more for the kids than older games.
I'm NOT knocking older gamers who like it still, don't get me wrong, I understand the nostalgia value behind it- but sonic is a franchise that is squarely aimed at kids more than anyone else. That's not to say you can't like it or enjoy it, but don't forget who the target audience is supposed to be- like it or not, it's not the people who grew up with sonic any more. |
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DanWhitehead
30/07/09 @ 08:53
+4
"It's not something where you wake up one morning and say, 'You know what, we're going to improve our quality on this franchise,' and it magically happens"
Huh-buh-wha? |
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Physically_Insane
30/07/09 @ 08:54
+15
Imagine if Kotaku didn't exist. EG would be fucked for news.
Edited 1 times,
most recently on 30/07/09 @ 09:55
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+6
Personally I don't believe that Sonic will ever be as good as he was. Maybe in the hands of developers who actually understood why Sonic became popular in the first place. But clearly it seems that Sonic Team has no idea.
What really pissed me off about this article was this quote: "when it came to the slower-paced gameplay they were fairly critical of that, and that's fine - they have their opinions" Yes, I do have an opinion: the nigh-time gameplay sucked! So did everything else except some of the daytime levels. |
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Physically_Insane
30/07/09 @ 09:02
+11
What they should do is make Sonic 5 (Sonic & Knuckles was Sonic 4, I think) a downloadable title on PSN and XBL. It should take notes from Mega Man 9. Make it look and sound exactly the same as the 16 bit games (Sonic 1-4). Add no shitty game play gimmicks, no shitty new characters and no shitty voice actors. If Sega do this I can guarantee it would sell shit loads.
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+9
Really let's be honest now, he's got a point, sonic is more for the kids than older games.
And therein lies a problem. You wouldn't make that excuse with Mario games, because it appeals to the whole family not just the kiddywinks who don't care about shallow gameplay as long as the main character is cartoony. Sonic games, even the 2D were more momentum based through platforming rather than running through the game at 100mph 100% of the time. Adding sections that has nothing to do with what made Sonic great back in the 16bit days, that is a fishing section, a find the chaos emerald section all merged in a hub world, doesn't make it a sonic game, it makes it a Sonic game plus other of games to turn it into a compilation. Sega really needs to read the reviews to their Sonic games sometime and take on what the reviewers praised and what they're critical of, because it looks like they just look at the metacritic score everytime they release a new game. |
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+3
"The kids" are stupid; 'Unleashed' was shit. I had high hopes for it when it looked like it was going to be 2D Sonic with a bit of 3D thrown in but, no, they had to royally arsehole it up. I only managed 2 werehog sections as they were amongst the most eye-wateringly monotonous levels I have ever played in a game. As a Sonic fan, I was considering playing through the whole thing just to be a completist but, when I realised I'd rather eat my own face, I decided against it.
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+1
After all the lousy Sonic games of the past few years, I'm surprised anyone is still interested in the games really. Apart from the Wii version of Sonic and the Secret Rings, which was pretty decent, all the other games have varied from mediocre to completely awful.
How SEGA could mess up such a simple game formula (run fast through levels and collect rings) I do not know but the first Xbox 360 game was so utterly dire and broken that I suspect it was coded by chimpanzees playing around with the in-house game designer. How else do you explain how was so baaaaaaaaaad? :? |
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RandomHero
30/07/09 @ 09:57
+1
Anyone else think they should give Miyamoto a crack at revitalising the series? I never thought I'd say that after the playground wars in my childhood, but things are getting pretty desperate now.
I think my main gripes with Unleashed was that a) you had to collect those bloody coins to progress onto later stages which slowed things down to a crawl and b) the daytime levels were too bloody fast. Now yes, I'll agree Sonic is about speed, but not sooooo much you can't actually phyisically control what you're doing thus plummiting to your death. The old games did have some wicked speed in there, but there was some decent slower platforming piled in there too. I salute Sega for trying new things and they're probably making a fair bit of money off these games, but they're really not very good games. Give Miyamoto a crack at making one tbh, it's not like he could make something much worse than Sonic the Hedgehog next gen. :S |
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+3
The speed of Sonic is too fast in the newer games. Those that talk about how Sonic is all speed fail to remember how the 2D games of the MegaDrive era featured a lot more slow paced platforming and didn't really focus on his speed as much as now. Back then, it worked well because Sonic had a sense of momentum, which enabled him to take part in slower paced platforming as well as speed up for loops and what have you.
The 2D sections of Sonic Unleashed would have been better if people remembered that sense of momentum; his constant speed makes him far too slippery for platforming sections. If they went back to reducing his momentum, then they could easily have more platforming elements without needing to have a slower paced Warehog in place, and sections like Eggman Land would actually be fun, rather than frustrating. |
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IronCladChicken
30/07/09 @ 10:50
0
@TruSmiles
It's been a while since I've played Sonic, but I thought one of its strengths was that you could play a slower Mario style, or the faster speedier style depending on what type of gamer you are. Since most of the people commenting here would have been very young (if even born at all) when Sonic was released, I'd guess they would have preferred the faster more dynamic game play to the slower 'completionist' game play.. Though, I could be wrong? :) |
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SpaceMonkey77
30/07/09 @ 11:16
-2
Trying to recapture the glory days, and spending so much money doing it. What a waste.
Sonic needs a rest and has done for some time. Its no wonder other Sega IP like Shinobi have been poor in recent times, because all the best talent is focused on flogging Sonic. Sega should be looking to sell their games to a wider audience. This reminds me of back in the 90's, the last time Sonic was overkilled and pushed on us. |
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0
"I think older, die-hard SEGA fans who grew up with the franchise and the first Sonic the Hedgehog associate Sonic more with 2D side-scrolling super fast, and they liked the daytime gameplay, but when it came to the slower-paced gameplay they were fairly critical of that, and that's fine - they have their opinions," he said.
Oh that's fine. You can take him in the slower paced direction if you want. And then you can have slower paced sales figures. Don't you have a board of directors who should have removed you by now? |
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0
"I think older, die-hard SEGA fans who grew up with the franchise and the first Sonic the Hedgehog associate Sonic more with 2D side-scrolling super fast"
Older die-hard Nintendo fans grew up with two dimensional Mario, and do they bitch and whine when a 3D incarnation comes out and does something completely unrecogniseable? No, because Nintendo actually take the time to make decent games. Not only that, they also give us 2D titles worth playing and - shock horror - even on Home Consoles! "What they should do is make Sonic 5 (Sonic & Knuckles was Sonic 4, I think) a downloadable title on PSN and XBL. It should take notes from Mega Man 9. Make it look and sound exactly the same as the 16 bit games (Sonic 1-4)." Agreed. Though Sonic & Knuckles is Sonic 3 (Part Two) and testament to either the technological inferiority of the Mega Drive, or a precedent to why SEGA always kind of sucked (let's not forget that the character whoring started in the 2D era with Knuckles Chaotix).
Edited 2 times,
most recently on 30/07/09 @ 12:52
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CountFapula
30/07/09 @ 13:15
0
schnide, the problem is the sales figures AREN'T slow, no matter how bad the game, so someone keeps buying this shit.
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retr0gamer
30/07/09 @ 14:00
+4
News flash to Sega:
The old sonic games aren't actually that fast. Sure there are fast sections but the majority of the game is traditional platforming and about as fast as a mario game. Stop making games were you hold right on hte d pad and jump every so often. As for the kids I'd like to say that you kids don't know what you want. Thats why you are all still kids, because you are stupid.
Edited 1 times,
most recently on 30/07/09 @ 15:04
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+2
Sonic was never as good as Mario though was he.
He was much, much, much better. Sonic 1 and 2 are so much better than any other 2D platformer it's just silly. It's not something where you wake up one morning and say, 'You know what, we're going to improve our quality on this franchise,' and it magically happens Really? Seems it really would be that easy to me. Take Sonic Adventure, HD-ify the engine, and hand it to a vaguely competent level designer. Job done. |
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+2
You can't blame Sega for trying to broaden the Sonic brand - after all, Nintendo managed it quite succesfully with Mario. What you can blame them for is f*cking it up, big style. It's not rocket science, after all... you look after your core audience, pick related subjects for broadening titles, and understand the appeal of your brand.
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+3
"What they should do is make Sonic 5 (Sonic & Knuckles was Sonic 4, I think) a downloadable title on PSN and XBL. It should take notes from Mega Man 9. Make it look and sound exactly the same as the 16 bit games (Sonic 1-4)."
I don't know about you but I didn't pay 400€ on a new console to have graphics like in 1990. A graphical update like in Bionic Commando Rearmed or King of Fighters XII or whatever is perfectly fine. The widescreen format is a no-brainer for Sonic. "News flash to Sega: The old sonic games aren't actually that fast. Sure there are fast sections but the majority of the game is traditional platforming and about as fast as a mario game. Stop making games were you hold right on hte d pad and jump every so often. " Word! Current gameplay designers at Sega use the advertisement text on the covers of the Sonic games as a specification sheet: "SONIC IS SPEEDY YEAH!". Back then you had to earn the great speed when playing it. Now it's the default speed setting. They don't care about the exact controls of the first Sonics and they don't even care about a decent framerate anymore. There is no hope. They don't have capable people any more. |
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FenderMaster
30/07/09 @ 19:05
+3
"It's not something where you wake up one morning and say, 'You know what, we're going to improve our quality on this franchise,' and it magically happens,"
what an idiot... If your team can't understand what made Sonic great (speed, exploration, music, level deign, physics/momentum and PLATFORMING), then get rid of them... theres more than enough people who do understand, and many talented developers currently on the dole... The Sonic Rush games were okay, they got the speed part right, but they totally messed up the exploration and platforming aspects... As several people have said, the old Sonic games weren't all that fast... sure, there were fast bits, but they were a reward for slower, careful considered platforming, navigating traps and enemies. They controlled excellently, with a nice sense of inertia. The fans were fucking idiots, and screamed to Sega "make it faster, then it'll be good again", and sega, also being idiots, listened, and turned all subsequent sonic games into 1/2 uncontrollable slippy rollercoasters and 1/2 dull, horribly controlling 3d beat em up's/shooters level design became boring, random, and unconsidered, and the charming music was replaced with cheese rock and bad j pop/funk And Unleashed daytime levels were a mix of sonic rush, and uncontrollable 3d parts.
Edited 1 times,
most recently on 30/07/09 @ 20:13
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RobotRocker
30/07/09 @ 20:44
+1
But will it be enough to repair the damage in the relation ship of one very fast blue hedgehog and one very blue skies blog...
I doubt it. |
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+3
"I think older, die-hard SEGA fans who grew up with the franchise and the first Sonic the Hedgehog associate Sonic more with 2D side-scrolling super fast, and they liked the daytime gameplay"
Wrong! As TruSmiles and Pasco are saying, the older die-hard SEGA fans remember when speed was something to keep in mind while playing, not something that just happened and somehow hypnotised us into enjoying the games. With its loops, long jumps, vertical slopes and other ridiculous gradients, Sonic's physics were a big evolutionary step for platform games. And like a sandbox title, you could play any section of Sonic 1 in a way that matched your playstyle or mood at the time. You could play it like a normal platformer and just aim to go from A to B until completion, trying not to die too often, like with any other solid console game of the time. You could be an arcade gamer aiming for a high score or a fast racing lap, and clear the levels in as little time as possible. Ideal given that most pre-1991 Sega fans were arcade fans. Or you could chose not to take an easy route, and try to get to new places in inventive ways. Much like how a climber might view a mountain, or a skater might see an array of rails and ramps. There was a distinct reward for playing the third way. More rings, and access to the Special Stages. Modern Sonic games only cater to the first and second way, which is noticeably not enough. The older die-hard gamer would often chose Sonic 1 and Sonic CD over the other 2D titles. Sonic 1 didn't hand rapid acceleration to players on a plate, and its Special Stages really tested player's awareness and mastery of Sonic's physics. Sonic CD rewarded players with time travel if they could maintain speed in levels with very few rollercoaster-like sections. It could be pulled off by luck, but a bit of skill and memorisation is needed to really feel as though the game is truly your playground and not your opponent. I'm pretty sure that if Special Stages were to return to Sonic games, and the levels that preceded them were made with collecting 50 or so rings being a challenge in mind, the old-school fun of the 2D Sonics that catered to all gamers at all times will fall into place. Well, assuming that the controls, physics and camera are up to the task.
Edited 1 times,
most recently on 31/07/09 @ 01:06
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seamonsterneil
31/07/09 @ 01:26
-3
sonic unleashed....
"what is everyone on about...this game is aweeeeeeeeeeeeesssssssssssome...look at how fast i'm going.... this is amazing....why do people hate this game????..... fuck, im dead...oh well...fuck..im dead again...fuck...fuck...fuckign fuck...FUCK!...GAME OVER....fuck this game" |
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