Save your Scorn Comments by Rob Fahey

Im in the 'Ive got a Wii but I never play it' camp, in fact I only ever play the Gamecube resi's on it.
Its a shame its in decline because although it has a lot of 'shite' games its a good machine for kids, idiots and women. Gaming snobs might turn their nose up at it because it doesnt have Uncharted 2 or Gears Of War but the aforementioned demographics need games too !.

Sadly, the Wii is going the exactly the same way as the DS, the quality games development has been abandoned for 'shovelware' and cheap cash-ins which make a fortune, this coupled with the rampant piracy doesnt give decent games developers any encouragement to make quality titles.

I recommend to read the article before writing a comment based on only the subtitle.

I was just giving my take on the state of the Wii and why its sales are dropping, but thanks for your advice !

"Sadly, the Wii is going the exactly the same way as the DS, the quality games development has been abandoned for 'shovelware' and cheap cash-ins which make a fortune..."

Don't you mean the PS2? And does that stop it selling, or stop it being loved?

The DS no longer has quality games? Have you actually looked at the games being released on it? The number of quality titles certainly hasn't dropped on the DS like it has on the Wii although there may be a higher number of shovelware titles.

None of this will matter when the new Mario games come out. It hasn't helped though with games like the conduit boasting of being all this and that but ending up being just okay. To be fair though many games on all three consoles we're told in previews are gonna be exceptional but end up being just okay.

I would like to think that most gamers, not so much the kids now who might not appreciate the consequences, would ever want what happen to Sega to happen to Nintendo.

''Have you actually looked at the games being released on it?''

I look at the release list on Metacritic and it makes me weep, gone are the Trauma Centers, Yoshis Islands and Mario Karts to be replaced with 'yummy yummy cooking jam'. The quality of the titles in the first year of its life was better than anything out recently with one or two exceptions http://www.metacritic.com/games/ds/

"Sadly, the Wii is going the exactly the same way as the DS, the quality games development has been abandoned for 'shovelware' and cheap cash-ins...."

Really? REALLY? The DS has the best library of any of the current systems, and perhaps the best library of any system and it continues to get better.

The DS is region free, INSOMANiAC. This should help you out.

INSOMANiAC: That wasn't specifically directed at your comment.

@INSOMANiAC: As I mentioned in my reply I think you're confusing the ratio of quality games with the number of quality games. I'm pretty certain the number of quality titles is about the same but the number of shovelware titles has increased.

Metacritic's Top 10 rated:
2005
1. Mario Kart DS (2005) 91
2. Advance Wars: Dual Strike (2005) 90
3. Castlevania: Dawn of Sorrow (2005) 89
4. Meteos (2005) 88
5. Osu! Tatakae! Ouendan (2005) 87
6. Kirby: Canvas Curse (2005) 86
7. Mario & Luigi: Partners in Time (2005) 86
8. Animal Crossing: Wild World (2005) 86
9. Tony Hawk's American Sk8land (2005) 84
10. Nintendogs: Lab & Friends (2005) 83

2006
1. New Super Mario Bros. (2006) 89
2. Jump Ultimate Stars (2006) 89
3. Elite Beat Agents (2006) 87
4. Metroid Prime: Hunters (2006) 85
5. Castlevania: Portrait of Ruin (2006) 85
6. Tetris DS (2006) 84
7. Dragon Quest Heroes: Rocket Slime (2006) 83
8. Clubhouse Games (2006) 83
9. Nintendogs: Dalmatian & Friends (2006) 83
10. Yoshi's Island DS (2006) 81

2007
1. Legend of Zelda: Phantom Hourglass, The (2007) 90
2. Planet Puzzle League (2007) 86
3. Ouendan 2 (2007) 86
4. Pokemon Diamond (2007) 85
5. Pokemon Pearl (2007) 85
6. Bleach: The Blade of Fate (2007) 83
7. Picross DS (2007) 83
8. Contra 4 (2007) 83
9. Lunar Knights (2007) 82
10. Puzzle Quest: Challenge of the Warlords (2007) 82

2008
1. Chrono Trigger (2008) 92
2. World Ends With You, The (2008) 89
3. Advance Wars: Days of Ruin (2008) 86
4. Professor Layton and the Curious Village (2008) 85
5. Space Invaders Extreme (2008) 85
6. Castlevania: Order of Ecclesia (2008) 85
7. Final Fantasy IV (2008) 85
8. FIFA Soccer 09 (2008) 84
9. Ninja Gaiden: Dragon Sword (2008) 83
10. Bangai-O Spirits (2008) 83

2009 (so far)
1. Grand Theft Auto: Chinatown Wars (2009) 93
2. Flipnote Studio (2009) 93
3. Mario & Luigi: Bowser's Inside Story (2009) 91
4. Peggle: Dual Shot (2009) 85
5. Mighty Flip Champs (2009) 85
6. Might and Magic: Clash of Heroes (2009) 85
7. Dragon Quest V: Hand of the Heavenly Bride (2009) 84
8. Shin Megami Tensei: Devil Survivor (2009) 84
9. Professor Layton and The Diabolical Box (2009) 84
10. Rhythm Heaven (2009) 83

Quality drop?

Surely the drop in actually sales figures is partly related to the fact that many people, myself included, who have an idea about the guts of the wii view it as an overclocked gamecube and as such wont part with near 200 sheets to play the few interesting titles. I serious price drop has been needed IHMO for about a year to get a certain group on board. Compared to the 360 the wii has always been stupidly expensive for what it offers and as such i wont buy it at that price. If it hit say £120 in the u.k. or £150 euros over here in Spain i might pick one up
Ok there was a recent price drop but it was too little to late, nintendo really have been very greedy, the fabrication cost of so a low tech device must be in the order of £50 yet they have milked the fad for all its worth. If it was a reasonable price i would pick one up for boomblocks, galaxy etc.

These are my views, and the reason i havent bought one, maybe it not a common viewpoint but it mine.

@Varsas:
Unfortunatly the games you listed wont appeal to the uncommited userbase of the Wii (Wii sports, game waggle type buying demographic). Not sure if trying to get this demographic buying into more hardcore userbase will work either. It basically needs a new fad-gimmick to maintain the growth it desires. A big ask. Unfortunatly, its harcore userbase isnt too happy with it either the sparse amost glacial release of triple A prooduct has been incredibly slow even by Nintendos standards. Ive owned the last three nintendo formats and this is the worst it has ever been. By triple A I mean another Zelda or Mario not f@@@ing samsh brothers or mario and sonic type game. I admired Nintendos bravado in expanding the userbase, it definatly ripped the rugg underneath Sonys feet but it needs to spread the risk and not put all its eggs in one basket. Its profits to date are great definalty the envy of sony and MS but what will these figures look like in 2 years time?

Someone did a list of all the good Wii games on another post and it is a great list, as well as being surprisingly long. I think the problem is people know that they can nearly always find a better experience on the other consoles - take NFS and FIFA as a case in point. They are both dumbed down and simplified to fit in with the imagined Wii demographic of grandparents and gaming novices. As a gamer, I'm always going to go for the HD version and that's not just because of the graphics. I think Nintendo also missed a trick by not encouraging online play - massive communities of gamesplayers have grown up who chat and play regularly online and this cannot be done on the Wii (Conduit aside). I have at least two games (SSBB and Mariokart) that I would play all the time if I could chat to mates. Essentially Nintendo has isolated all the people who are really into games, the people who will boost their attach rates.

The low attach rates discourage third-party developers from making the titles that appeal to the serious gamer and a vicious circle is created. Everyone sees tosh like Carnival games and WiiFit (good if you want to keep fit, not good if you're a gamer) selling a bucketload and they try and jump on the wagon creating a drip-feed of shovelware and lifestyle shite.

There's simply no guarantee that quality software will sell on the Wii because so much of it's market are casual gamers who do not recognise good games. I realise there are a lot of subjective statemements in there but it's undeniablethat a high metacritic score (the easiest way to define a good game without getting into a ballache argument) is not always reflected by sales. Likewise a low metacritic score does not always seem to hinder sales on the Wii. The Wii demographic is hard to pin down, and in a time when gaming development costs millions why will execs take a punt on an unstable market when HD consoles offer a more solid proposition?

Mario Galaxy is possibly my favourite game. I also really enjoyed Zelda, and the Wii offers the finest local multiplayer experience without doubt - SSBB, Mariokart, Wii Sports. But for most people it's become a party toy, dug out for Christmas. All my money goes on the Xbox games beacuse, almost without fail I can get a deeper, richer experience and have an online community. I have an X-box and have play a lot of Streetfighter IV, Forza 3 and COD 4. When I have what are widely accepted to be among the best games in their genre, why the hell am I going to look for a Wii equivalent?

I remember the holes in the N64 schedule too. But you knew that every six months or so an absolute blinder would come along so you kept the faith. And this just hasn't happened on the Wii. Nintendo has effortlessly courted the casual gamer and made a million in the process. But they've lost all their gaming fans, and I think it's fair to say that the market they have cornered will have no brand loyalty when the next fad comes along (I'm looking at you PS3 wands and Natal). The new adopters will jump ship and Nintendo will also have been abandoned by all the fans that kept them afloat duting the Gamecube and N64 periods.

Nintendo are built on foundations of software. The 'Nintendo magic' is an industry cliche but it's no coincidence that Nintendo games consistently feature in people's top 100 lists. Nintendo can dick about with Wii Fit as much as they want. They can create a lifestyle division to make horseriding simulators. But they also need to make games for the gamers. Because these are the people that buy games. These are the people that will buy quality third party titles. These are the people that will encourage third party developers to build for the machine. These are the people that will ultimately ensure the Wii's success as a gaming platform, not some novelty pet weighing tool.

Many of my best Nintendo moments are not Nintendo games - I'm looking at you Secret of Mana, Goldeneye, Resident Evil 4. These developers will not develop big new installmets of their IPs for a system that does not guarantee sales. Nintendo cocked up in the past - they fell out with Square for a long period (over licensing issues I think), their aversion to 'adult' games drove millions rushing for their Playstations, their terror about online gaming has isolated a lot of players - Mariokart's online mode is about as much use as a cock-flavoured lolly. They have now created a whole new market and made millions but are still making a massive mistake in not ensuring a collection of quality games to make the Wii an attractive gaming platform.

Nintendo will struggle to turn the Wii around now as I think there's a lot of inertia to the gaming markets they've created. But there are a lot of people like myself and the original poster that occasionally rub the dust off and are silently hoping for Pilotwings Wii and Pikmin 3. Nintendo could still plough some of their millions back into securing exclusive builds of big franchises or even just take a punt on some new talent - like they did with Retro for the original Metroid. They need to make sure some decent games appear for the system. Games that play to the system's strength, overcome it's graphical weaknesses and offer something that none of the HD consoles can. They need to do this to ensure the long term success of their brand, to ensure they don't face the lean years they had with the N64 and Gamecube after the dizzy heights of the NES/SNES. They have a boatload of customers and a shitload of money. Anyone who thinks the Wii is anything other than a sucess from a business preospective is a muppet. But if they want to build on this they need to go back to courting gamers too.

Like in 'Field of Dreams' I see the wizened angel of Gunpei Yokoi whispering to a lost Miyamoto, 'Build it, and they will come.' And then I cry salty tears as I put the Wii back into the cupboard, before accepting the guilty caress of the Xbox controller and lapsing into the brief comforts of another console. You broke my heart Nintendo. You broke my fucking heart.

EDIT: Sorry for the obscenely long post, cheers if anyone got this far. Just goes to show how much Nintendo have gripped my shit that I'll spend half an hour writing about it on a Saturday morning.

personally , while i dont begrudge ninty for what theve done with the wii id be pretty glad if the sales drop off, i fear if they dont that the next generation will be overclocked ps3's and 360's with waggle controls otherwise!

Why the hell would they lower the price when they were still selling their product quicker than they could manufacture it? You do realise Nintendo are a business, right?

interesting article. i personally think the wii has done a lot to make gaming more acceptable, whether its on the nintendo platform or otherwise. i know of people who have recently bought a 360 as their first ever console and maybe its because gaming is now OK to previous non gamers.

i dont own a wii and im probably not gonna, i doubt any hardcore gamers bought a wii this generation instead of one of the other two. i dont think there's much cross over between target audiences...

@Macmurphy, couldn't have put it better...

I own both consoles and generally only purchase top titles.
I have purchased 8 Wii titles and 52 360 titles since launch.

Few Metacritic Stats, read into as you like!

Wii All time average score - 63.1
360 all time average score - 68.1

Wii average scores per year shows average score getting better
2007 - 60.2
2008 - 62.3
2009 - 66.5

360 average scores per year staying about the same
2007 - 60
2008 - 60.7
2009 - 61.2

However,
Wii titles scoring above 7 - 36%
360 titles scoring above 7 - 52.1%

And choice..
Wii games scoring over 8:
2006 - 3
2007 - 9
2008 - 28
2009 - 26

360 games scoring over 8:
2006 - 31
2007 - 41
2008 - 47
2009 - 50

@L_Ron_Cupboard

Nintendo's first-party games bridge the gap. Well, aside from the likes of Wii Fit, of course.

I thought the original Xbox was ace - it was the most powerful, had a built in HDD, a sexy OS where you could play tunes had DLC and the controller was pure sex. And probably the best online gaming (not that I used it). Despite it's size, I love the big X on top too.

I personally would love Nintendo to go the way of Sega: they'd end up only making games. And who's gong to buy Wii Fit on a PS360? Fucking no-one! It'd be Mario, Zelda, Metroid & Pikmin all the way as well as new IPs. And all that hardware division could also be turned into looking at software! Plus they'd look far better on either of the above machines and obviously there'd be no space for waggle.

@Macmurphy.

I read your post/novel. I have to say I couldnt agree more on pretty much every point, right down to the sitting up till the early hours playing my import copy of Secret of Mana on the Super Famicom . Maybe we can hope for those times again. :(

EDIT: I really do hope that SMB Wii is up to the mark. If the Mario games (and I dont mean spin offs) go down the pan then I think that will be the end. Im sure Mario Galaxy 2 will be a cracker though.

"Nintendo understands that its basic problem was with its software. "

Does it really? I thought they were supposed to have understood that problem with the Gamecube. The software hasn't got significantly better, but the audience has changed.

@Varsas

Why on earth have you tried to deconstruct the "Wii software going downhilll" argument with a Metacritic list of DS games?

"And who's gong to buy Wii Fit on a PS360? Fucking no-one! It'd be Mario, Zelda, Metroid & Pikmin all the way as well as new IPs."

Wii Fit and other "casual" games are not problems in themselves. They're encouraging more people to get into video games, and making them more socially acceptable as a result. That's a good thing in my book.

The real concern is that Nintendo now care more about their new audience than they do their core fanbase. SMG2, NSMB, Zelda and Metroid are all steps in the right direction, but we still lack the likes of Starfox, F-Zero, Mario Golf/Tennis, Pikmin and a proper Mario RPG. If Nintendo got the balance a bit better I'm sure most people wouldn't really care about their new "casual" range. They just don't want another year that ends with Wii Music as the big Christmas release...

I'm going to make a prediction now, when we get past the Christmas sales rush, I think a lot of people are going to look foolish with regards to some predictions of doom for Nintendo. The next set of official sales data will be out soon (the first since the price cut), and it's going to show a massive increase in sales for the Wii. This will then be further boosted due to the obvious Christmas sales boost that all the consoles will enjoy. And we'll look back on another year of Wii domination and wonder what all the fuss was about.

Yes, they may sell less than last year, but there's a massive chasm of difference between having average sales like the 360 or PS3 and suffering a dip, and having phenomenal sales like the Wii and suffering a dip. Of course, your average gamer will suffer to understand such simple logic.

By the way, before anyone starts with the usual nonsense about 'hardcore' games never being able to sell on a Nintendo console, please go and compare the respective sales for the two versions of Grand Theft Auto: Chinatown Wars. I think you'll be horrifically surprised...

After reading this article I get the impression that the only important thing here is getting the most people possible playing, it doesn't really matter what kind of waggle drivel must they sink their time into the whole world must game.

'A huge number of the Wii's owners are downstream consumers, uncommitted newcomers to the gaming market, and after an immensely promising start, Nintendo failed to deliver the kind of software that encourages those people to swim upstream and get more deeply involved in gaming. '

I fail to even imagine such a portentous software..

@ Eighthours.

Because the discusssion included the DS. See posts 1, 5 and 7.

Reading is for winners!

Cid, post 27, excellent

It's ridiculous how people try to portray the pursuing of "uncommitted casuals" who only buy things that entertain them, as a bad thing, while milking hardcore gamers who will buy ANYTHING just because it is the Next Big Hardcore Game, is the True and Only Way of the Industry.

Nintendo is now down because they chose the hard way, and they are only big as long as they can really make the best casual games, but once they are there, they are more successful than anyone else.

To echo Cid's comment (#27) above, I've no intention of getting rid of my (launch day) Wii any time soon, but the only Wii game I've bought this year (2009) is Wii Sports Resort. Nintendo can still make great games and I'd buy any new Mario platformer, Zelda or Metroid game, plus there are plenty of core franchises left untapped - Kid Icarus, Starfox, F-Zero, Pikmin, Paper Mario...

I just hope Nintendo can redress this imbalance between core games and casual fodder in 2010.

"because it's committed the cardinal sin of making gaming mainstream and widely accepted, shock horror "

Gaming was already mainstream well before the Wii in the youth audience, as demonstrated by the huge turnover of big game launches like Halo, GT, GTA etc etc etc, and was penetrating age bands as people aged. The playstation and playstation II achieved this and it was cemented by the success of GTA.

Unfortunately there is a confusion between "low brow cheap shlock" and "mainstream" in the mind of the articles author.

Unfortunately there is a confusion between "low brow cheap shlock" and "mainstream" in the mind of the articles author.

On the contrary - I know exactly what "mainstream" means, in that it suggests a platform which has software that appeals to a broad range of niche markets, from teenage boys and young men through middle-aged women, retirees and everyone else in between.

You, on the other hand, are doing exactly the same thing that most gamers online seem to do - assuming that "mainstream" means "not only do I like it, but all my mates of the same age and gender as me do as well, so it MUST be mainstream!".

@Killerbee

Little King's Story and Madworld score above 80 on metacritic and are €14.99 in my local Xtravision. Why not give them a go?

Also, why not give two recent games, Muramasa: The Demon Blade and A Boy and His Blob a go? Surely, one of those genres you like.

@L_Ron_Cupboard

I'm a 'hardcore' gamer and the only (is it?) 7th gen home console I own is a Wii.

@Bremenacht

How was there a problem with GameCube software, a part from the lack of 3rd party support? Have you not played games such as LoZ: Wind Waker, F-Zero GX, Pikmin, Resident Evil 4, etc.

The problem with the Wii is that even if they offer powerful core games they will always be some steps behind the best the 360 and PS3 can offer.So ,having in count that many Wii gamers have also one of the other machines ,makes very hard for core games to sell well on the Wii.

Anecdotal evidence means zero ,but from my friends group (around ten including myself) we have 4 PS3 ,0 360 (Spain doesnt like this console too much) and 2 Wii ...the other 4 dont play.The Wii owners have their machine pirated and only buy some original game when its bundled with some pheripheric they need(Wii Fit ,Mario Kart Wii ,etc).Even those customers can generate some money in the end ...additional wiimotes,1-2 games each year ,maybe they are offered a game in their birthday or holidays by their family.But compared to me and the other 3 PS3 users that me may be buying some 9 full-price games each and 8-9 second-hand or discounted (platinum,heavily discounted promotions) games their spending is irrelevant.More so ,when they knew the PS3 was getting a Wiimote next Spring they were heavily interested....we will have to see how that plays out but their Wii could be getting a lot more of dust in the future.

Dual users wont buy too much Wii core games ,as their PC-360-PS3 offerings are much better....they may get the Mario Galaxy 1 or 2 or new Zelda each two years and a half ,but thats pretty much it.And ,they can get as I told some games with peripheric included.Thats still producing some money for Nintendo and the industry ,but hardly what a regular PS360 user generates for its plattform.To really win the Wii should destroy the PS360 userbases by 4-1 or 5-1.Combined.Add to that the PC and the usual PC-PS3-360 releases.All that creates the odd situation that the best selling console is the worst supported and has the least good games (the difference between its lineup and the PS3 and 360 has grown this year from massive to simply unbelieveable).

That said ,it still generates lots of money for the plattform holder and it still outselling PS3 and 360 ....problem for Nintendo is if this trend of 50% decrease in sales continue a bit (even a 25% further decrease) it would start to lose ground to each of the HD plattforms individually ...and utterly destroyed by the combo PS360PC for development interest.

Its good to see they have realized their software isnt up to scratch lately ,but I doubt they can do too much about it.Out of the Mario-Zelda new outings and their mass appeal anything that they release will be very inferior to what the other are offerings.The machine doesnt have even DVD playback ,the multimedia options are very poor ,the online is quite poor ,wiiware is a joke compared to the Live Bazar and PSN ,it doesnt have HDD for downloading media ,I doubt even the graphics processors would be enough to render a HD movie by streaming ..and the rivals will have their own motion control devices.

Nintendo position is very good ,but worse than one year ago.And it could get worse ,without releasing a new machine with a lot more horsepower (and that would be like losing their current advantage completely as old Wiis wouldnt run Wii HD apps) its just stuck with a much worse machine.Great marketing ,nostalgia factors ,good pricing from the launch day and the wiimote appeal (siren song ,it hasnt delivered what they promised) have created a tidal wawe of great proportions and established the Wii as the best selling plattform ,but those factors are starting to weaken a bit and the rivals (specially Sony with software for just about everybody ,the new pricing and the Slim and the countless possibilities of their machine ) are eroding their position ....we will see how this plays out.

I love my Wii and play it a lot but last Christmas and early this year was pretty rubbish. I think that's why there have been a decrease in sales and imo, everyone is overreacting just a little bit.
NSMBWii and Wii Fit Plus should bring the sales back up for Christmas and with Mario Galaxy 2 and Metroid Other M next year, sales should stay steady.
My main problem I have with the Wii is the absolute atrocious 3rd party support. For about 9 months, Nintendo didn't release a title and sales started to decline. This is not a coincedence. The wii just didn't have any top quality 3rd party to catch the eye of both hardcore and casual and keep the momentum of the wii going.
Anyway, we'll see how it goes next year I guess.

And INSOMANiAC, the DS probably has the greatest gaming library in history. Don't know what you're talking about.

The article mentions the decline being down to no software coming out. Thats not strictly true, I have a feeling Nintendo expected the Motion Plus with Sports Resort to be the software that kept it going like Wii Fit and Sports did. So far it hasn't reached the heights of those two.

New Super Mario is coming out soon, but I think that will please the 'hardcore' fans more than the casuals.

Good old Nintendo, I hope the wii has a massive resurgence and the hardcore start crying again.

Hmmm, I don't seem to be a typical wii60 owner, according to some posters here (go figure!). I have 5 games for the 360, and 20 for the wii. all bought/legit copies.

And anyone wanting a great wii game/Pikmin 3, should just buy Little King's Story. I'm in the middle of playing that at the moment (20+ hours so far), and loving it- awesome humour also.

I think the big problem regarding shovelware:good game ratio is really a retail thing- you look at music and film, and you've got Tesco only stocking the top ten, HMV stocking that, and an extensive back catalogue covering a range of genres and niches-within-genres, and indie back-street stores and online for obscure esoterica.

Games, however, see The Tesco Top Ten, GAME stocking the top eleven (with last year's top twelve on second hand), a massive, empty gulf you could powerslide a bendy bus through, cheap knock-offs of the top twelve on XBLA and the odd weird freeware title. (Which has a decent shot of making it to, ironically, WiiWare)

The first is fine- a place for everything and everything in its place, if you will- the second sees 'hardcore' or 'quality' or 'for people that are neither women nor old' (or whatever euphemism you want to use for games of this type) simply not reaching retail at all in favour of another identical minigame compilation, and is definately the direction we're going in.

The expansion of the gaming market should have seen a broader range of games released, and for specialist retail to come into its own and compete with supermarkets et al on selection- but instead we've just seen them simply swap the one market they've chosen to focus on to the detriment of everyone else for another, and given the way people currently buy games, this is unforunately the way that the industry has had to follow.

The main problem is, that most people who are trying to explain why the Wii sales decreased, are just using the old arguments about why the Wii sucks (in their opinion) since it was released.
But the Wii was successful until this year! Relying on the "casuals" worked! Weak hardware worked! relying on first party worked! Peripherals worked!

From a business perspective, the real question is: WHAT WENT WRONG SINCE 2008???
Making Nintendo "awesome" and "core" again could be secondary, or even counterproductive.

Great, intelligent, enlightening piece of writing. Bravo, Mr. Fahey.

How many so called hardcore gamers thinking Mario Galaxy would have been better with regular controller, have actually played it?
It's also Ironic, as Nintendo defined the regular game pad (hold SNES pad above Playstation pad and Wavebird above 360 pad)

IMO playing with separated hands with built in pointing device is a genuine step forward, even if you dont like the motion control.
Hardcore gamers are simply gamers who don't like change and are jealous of success.
Hardcore used to be tipping your parents house upside down for 10p pieces, 20 minute bus ride to the nearest arcade and a long walk home. F#cking wimps.

@gorf: The list was forr INSOMANIAC who thinks the DS has had fewer quality releases in recent times. Regarding your comment about slow triple A releases form Nintendo, how is it different to previous consoles? We never had regular core Mario or Zelda releases.

sigh, never have I been as disinterested in a console as I have been in the wii. feel like we are just repeating the same points over and over. we all know the wii has some great titles but would you really choose one over a 360? I know so many people that bought one and after a couple of weeks have left it to gather dust.

I guess I am a hardcore gamer. I have a PC, which I use for most of my online gaming. I have been playing on-line FPS's since UT. These days I mostly play l4d versus with a team of friends.

The Wii is my only console this gen. I use it for 'casual' stuff like Wii Fit, but also playing classic platform games, and multi-player with real people. That is the sort of gaming I expect from a console. I hope Nintendo continues to deliver.

At present the PS360 don't offer that console experience for me an my girlfriend. She has no desire to watch me play left 4 dead, whereas plenty of Wii games draw us both in.

Even a failure to do so convincingly would still probably leave the company solidly profitable and ready to fight in the next round - but if it succeeds, it could have a major impact on the landscape of the market in the coming years.

actually, they're in a bad situation for their next console...

the hardcore crowd probably won't buy the next Nintendo console, after being burned with the Wii... so if the casuaL crowd don't move on, Nintendo will be in serious trouble next gen

'the hardcore crowd probably won't buy the next Nintendo console, after being burned with the Wii... so if the casuaL crowd don't move on, Nintendo will be in serious trouble next gen'

maybe this would be a good thing and will get nintendo back into thinking about a console that developers will take seriously

Great article.