Sales of R4 DS cart outlawed in Japan News

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Hmm - I find the R4 to be invaluable: I do buy all my games but its much better having them all on one cart along with the internet browser, and being able to play Doom, Quake and all the megadrive/snes games too. Perhaps they should try and come up with their own way of enabling you to legally transfer your games to a 'master cartridge' or something instead.....

I would be absolutely amazed if it was outlawed in Europe / America.

They would have to ban many other flash card devices otherwise.

Nobody with any sense buys the R4 now anyway.

Why is that Rev? Apart from basic anti-piracy stuff, why would buying one mke no sense? I'd have though even ignoring piracy, all the homebrew freeware, media players etc would be worth it.

Probably won't help much now in Japan (as so many people own them/pirate with them)...but if the case stands it should make it very difficult for companies to legally release similar devices for future platforms.

To be honest the banning of modchips worked out pretty well for consoles. Now many games are region-free on the 360 and all of them on the PS3. For people who buy games legitimately this has been good news.

Rev is right, R4 is now very outdated there are better cards (carts?) on the market with fewer compatibility issues.

Yes, this really is closing the stable door after the horse has bolted - over 12 months ago it was nigh-on impossible to find an R4 in Tokyo anyway, since everyone had moved on to selling better devices. The legal system moves so slowly that getting injunctions against individual products / manufacturers in an attempt to stop piracy is always going to be fairly pointless.

"Sales of the R4 cartridge, which allows users to play pirated DS games, have been outlawed in Japan. "

And emulators such as scummvm and various 8 and 16 bit era devices. :/

I find that most DS games are tripe but the scummvm selection is pure genius tyvm.

So, all you fellas in the know, what exactly are the better devices?

Check your inbox, that one works great with most emulators, a lot of games for scummvm work on it.

imho, the main point here is that these devices are already widespread and exist as outright and blatant vehicles for piracy in the first place. It's a major problem and although no data exists on this, I'd be willing to bet that only a small minority use these things for homebrew. I've always been morally against the idea of piracy - I bought my R4 with the intention of trying out games and buying them if I liked them. But it's been all too easy not to.

Now heaven forbid that anecdotal evidence actually paints a picture of what's happening the real world, but in my immediate office I work with three other people. Neither of them are (shh) hardcore gamers (/shh) but they both know what an R4 is, one of them has one and now the other is ordering them. That probably means that their families will never buy legitimate DS games again.

One of them is a 34 year old man and his Mum told him about the R4, ffs. It's no wonder Nintendo are moving towards downloadable games instead with the DSi, and I don't blame them either.

@schnide - absolutely: I agree - I know people who pirate Wii games and DS games and sell them on and these are just average family people (you know, not ruff criminal sorts) - 2 out of the last 3 DS games I bought off ebay were copies (they went straight back to the seller mind you), so a lot of people know about it and are profiting off other peoples work.
BUT - the R4 was what made me buy a DS in the first place, as I knew I'd be able to put Doom on it and emulators - so Nintendo got a sale (and sales of a further 12 DS games) because of it. Wouldnt have bought one otherwise, so it works both ways.....

"Now heaven forbid that anecdotal evidence actually paints a picture of what's happening the real world"

Yeah, have similar experience with colleagues. For many people piracy isn't really a crime as breaching someone's IP is too abstract a crime to trigger their moral alarm bells.

And the lack of appreciation for games also plays a role. They just see a cart full of games as an easy and cheap way to keep the kids quiet for a while.

Haven't got an R4 myself but I must admit that with my DS games library expanding I'd love to have a legal means of putting my games collection on a single cart. Both for safe keeping and for convenience.

In the end, is downloading the game really much worse than getting it pre-owned? The devs get zero money either way!

Oh, it is worse. Fair enough. I still want one though.

I have to say, ever since I put scummvm on my touch HD I've not touched my ds once. :/

As 99 procent of the DS-titels are crap. I don't have a problem with using a R4-card.

99% of DS carts are better than your spelling.

@Fuser

Yes Nintendo got a sale, but if they're selling the DS at a loss to make it up on the games then that's a different story.

The worst thing is that I say this and I do the same thing myself. Temptation was too hard to resist I'm afraid. When you look at a £20 spend on an R4 against buying even one legit title, the maths is done for you.

I thought that Nintendo make a profit on hardware - and like I say, I bought several DS games within a week. I even tried some out on the R4 card first and then bought it cos I liked it, though I realise not everybody does that...
Downloadable demos of DS games would be a good start....

"Downloadable demos of DS games would be a good start.... "

Some are available via the Wii. I'd expect they will become more common with the DSi.

"As 99 procent of the DS-titels are crap. I don't have a problem with using a R4-card."

Ridiculous argument.

Good job i already have my M3 real then...

I only bought a DS could I could use an M3.

I will be the first to actually admit I have never paid for a DS game (of course this means I use it for homebrew only... mr officer)

Frankly the use of R4 and the like should be a kick in the teeth for a company who some how see fit to charge £29.99 for what in most cases are jazzed up N64 games.

Why don't Nintendo try and embrace this technology instead of spending all this time trying to swat it on the head? A flash cart lets you use the DS as a media player and allows you to have all your games collection in one place. Sounds a bit like an iPod for games right? They're quite popular aren't they? Why not produce a licensed product and work towards digital distribution methods for DS games?

This isn't just going to go away, so wake up and move with the times.

As CycloDS firmware updates keep coming I'll be happy, it's great for playing games thataren't reeased in europe like JUS

"So, all you fellas in the know, what exactly are the better devices?"

Things like the CycloDS have some fancy advanced features (eg in-game brightness adjustment), but for value you can't do better than the DSTT, also known as TTDS. Compatible with everything, reliable, supports SDHC cards (unlike the R4), and is available at ridiculous prices. DealExtreme, for example, sells them for about £8, including a 2GB card and shipping.

http://www.dealextreme.com/details.dx/sk...

"Why not produce a licensed product and work towards digital distribution methods for DS games?"

You mean a DSi?!

I've never looked into such things, but there is a bewildering array of R4 and other such devices out there. The r4 seems to be the most popular, but even then you've got various variants of that too! This homebrew business is confusing to a simple mind like mine.

@IneptPercy

'I only bought a DS could I could use an M3.'

Fitting name you fking retard!!!

Hmmm. Supposedly Yahoo Japan also banned sales of the R4 several weeks ago but a quick search turns there up over 2500 hits.
I think the boxes will just be hidden behind the counter in Akihabara shops...

" for value you can't do better than the DSTT, also known as TTDS."

I'd say you can. The Acekard 2 is *slightly* more expensive (about 8 quid on dealextreme without a card, but you can get a 2gb on there for £3). its also compatible with everything, reliable, supports SDHC, even supports the DSi if you're willing to drop another fiver or so on the 2i version, but most importantly it has a far, far better user interface than the TT. (the TT doesn't even support folders for fuck's sake). it also has the benefit of a semi-unofficial custom firmware (see here and here) which is pretty regularly updated and adds a bunch of features, fixes bugs, and generally optimises the whole thing.

but maybe that's just me.

There's a lot of pirating cnuts on this forum isnt there?

One wonders if they're also the first people who pipe up in the "my machine is selling better than yours" arguments - without realising the irony.

Hmm.. Now what was it you said again Jesus, something about let he who is without sin..?

"@IneptPercy

'I only bought a DS could I could use an M3.'

Fitting name you fking retard!!! "

Maybe a bit extreme, my own fault for rattling off posts quickly when I should be working. I will type it again and check my grammer in an attempt to try and prove the word retard is to strong and I am just inept at typing quickly.

I only bought a DS so I could use an M3.

As for if its right or wrong, at least I admit it, I wouldn't deem the DS good value otherwise and wouldn't own one. It swings in roundabouts really, are the games I play lost sales? not really as I would never pay for them.

Lets all be honest now, how many of us can honestly say every game/mp3/dvd they own is legit? As far as games go this is all I don't pay for, everything else I do (saying that I usually get the cheaper PC versions of things)

It does seem that the DS is massively hit by this, my other half's mum has an M3 too. Not saying she is the tipping point but as other have said, these aren't people who would have any idea in chipping/flashing consoles etc yet they all seem to know about this.

Well they run from record to record with their Wii and DS games so maybe they should stfu, count their piles of money instead and buy some country or something.
God I hate greedy companies!

@ IneptPercy

Exactly, flash cards only damage the industry if people d/l games that they would otherwise have bought.

I would never have bought Contra 4, JUS, Tetris DS, or Metal Slug DS, but i have them on my CycloDS and enjoy them.

I still buy games that I'm interested in like TWEWY and Advance Wars, but I must admit I did d/l FF IV, and without a flash card I probably would have bought it.

The thing is that hardcore titles are worse hit than casual titles. The Imagine series target audience aren't hardcore enough to know about, and own a flash card, so the sales are great, wheras hardcore games target audience are more likely to own flash cards, and so lose sales.

Is this the reason why casual titles are becoming more frequent, and hardcore titles less so?

Maybe, and if so, then it is hurting not only the industry, but the gamers too...

Guess I'm a hypocrite

I will admit, I could play DS games on the cheap, by buying second hand on ebay then selling on when done, but the developer still gets nothing and all I am doing is funding ebay's world domination... surely this is more of a sin.

Not to mention the carbon foot print, or lack of it in games distribution via download.

No jobs have been lost due to losing my money as they would never have got it, yet some money has gone to nintendo and a small chinese boy who made my M3. And I get some entertainment on the bus... Everybody is a winner... maybe

well... propbably not the small chinese boy...

I will admit, I could play DS games on the cheap, by buying second hand on ebay then selling on when done, but the developer still gets nothing and all I am doing is funding ebay's world domination... surely this is more of a sin.

Nope. The initial cart was sold in the first place, so money goes to the developer. As for second hand sales, the second hand buyer is not getting the same product - they're getting it (on average) months after it's release. Sure it's still less money for the developer, but if that second hand buyer wants it at release date then they have to buy it new at release date.

With illegal downloads, none of that ever happens.

Not to mention the carbon foot print, or lack of it in games distribution via download.

Saving the world through piracy? You're taking the piss right?

No jobs have lost of losing my money as they would never have got it, yet some money has gone to nintendo and a small chinese boy who made my M3. And I get some entertainment on the bus... Everybody is a winner... maybe

This is even forgetting whether Nintendo sell the DS at a loss or not. If they don't, that helps, but they still shouldn't be ripped off in game sales because of that. It's not true to say you'd have never bought those games - if you'd never had a flash cart, there might still be fewer games you'd own but one or two that were compelling enough to buy legally.

Ultimately, I believe all this to be true and yes, at the same time, I am a hypocrite. But I'm not so blatant that I pretend what I'm doing isn't hurting the industry because it is. The problem is that I only intended to download the titles that I probably wouldn't have bought, but since there's no material difference in the process, I also do it for the ones I would've.

"Hmm.. Now what was it you said again Jesus, something about let he who is without sin..?"

Funny you bring that one up. Though attributed to Jesus, this is one of the passages least likely to be taken out of his life (not getting into a discussion about the historicity of Jesus as a person) as it's a relatively late addition to the gospels. ;)

"God I hate greedy companies!"

Making a profit allows those 'greedy' companies to actually make products for your benefit and gives you a job (and if you're not employed and get money from the state, they pay that indirectly).

Of course there are a few rotten apples where markets aren't working as efficiently as they should (Windows, Office, oil, banks) but in general markets are working well enough to protect consumers from excessive prices.

Who cares, with the DSi flash slot that bitch is going to get torn open in minutes without a crappy R4 card lol

"Nope. The initial cart was sold in the first place, so money goes to the developer. As for second hand sales, the second hand buyer is not getting the same product - they're getting it (on average) months after it's release. Sure it's still less money for the developer, but if that second hand buyer wants it at release date then they have to buy it new at release date."

And if I don't buy it second hand the initial cart is still sold but goes to somebody else on ebay.

"Saving the world through piracy? You're taking the piss right?"

Yes I am actually taking the piss with that one.

"This is even forgetting whether Nintendo sell the DS at a loss or not. If they don't, that helps, but they still shouldn't be ripped off in game sales because of that. It's not true to say you'd have never bought those games - if you'd never had a flash cart, there might still be fewer games you'd own but one or two that were compelling enough to buy legally."

I don't believe the DS is sold at a loss, but not 100% on that, the few games I have played which I may have been willing to pay for wouldn't have been enough to justify the cost of the console, £160 to play 2 DS games doesn't sound good to me.

Interestingly if I could easily get money directly to some of the developers then I would send something to a few of them, much like some recent albums on the 'pay what you think its worth' idea.

Just trying to point out my actions don't really effect anything.

Nintendo have a fucking cheek asking £30 for a game considering that there are many games out on the iphone for less than a fiver that put Nintendo's titles to shame.

I saw some excellent news on another site the other day which showed a demo of the new DSi cart for playing hooky games (pity the DSi is region locked or I might have imported one already).

Found the link: http://hackaday.com/2008/12/03/nintendo-...

never been tempted to buy a flash cart. I must have 60 games+ at least for my DS. I will always buy the orginal versions!

Some people dont realise that they hurt the small time 3rd party developers most when they choose to download a game instead of buying it.

"Some people dont realise that they hurt the small time 3rd party developers most when they choose to download a game instead of buying it."

Well, that rather depends what game it is, doesn't it?

Good luck even finding a small third-party DS game in a shop, by the way.

Let's ban production of kitchen knives - after all the all are possible tool of murder.

"Let's ban production of kitchen knives - after all the all are possible tool of murder."

Bit of a flawed argument there, mate. Only a tiny, minuscule percentage of people buying kitchen knives would buy them for the purpose of murder. I reckon most people buying an R4, though, wouldn't be doing it for the MP3 player.

For the record, I own a Supercard One, so I can try before I buy. I don't have enough money to be buying games that I don't like after 30 minutes of play. I feel comfortable with the legality (and morality) of that.

Interesting to read the losers on this thread trying to justify their pirating of DS games - and failing terribly.

@ Daikon

Sorry, was I failing at that? I would be fine with legally downloading shareware demos of DS games, if... you know... they existed.

As it is, if I really like a game after playing it a bit on SC, I buy it. If I don't like it, I don't buy it! What a great system!

There are some games I know I'll like, so I buy them right away. Like Chrono Trigger, and most JRPGs. Others I'm not so sure about, so the SC saves me a lot of money in that regard.