Rockstar doing PS3-exclusive Comments by Tom Bramwell

the 360 has a 12x DVD drive with a max speed of 16Mb/sec and falls down to 9Mb/sec and lower in the inner layers of the disc,meaning reading speed isnt consistent,this could be trouble some when you want to design a sandbox game where everything has to stream from the Disc

Don't try to talk technically if you don't know what you're talking about. For a start the 8.5mb/sec of the PS3's drive is subject to exactly the same slow/fast area limitations of the 360's. Differing optical media speeds are things that streaming games have been coping with since Soul Reaver on PS1.

Xbox 360 is perfectly capable of letting you play streaming games from the DVD, even where the PS3 would struggle without a lengthy install process before it lets you play.

@ cyber_nicco

That's what I suspected, but I want to wait for proof either way.

If Sony paid, I want to see the SDF scramble for justification, while I munch on popcorn and chug down Pepsi.

@Mentalist(air)

"Don't try to talk technically if you don't know what you're talking about. For a start the 8.5mb/sec of the PS3's drive is subject to exactly the same slow/fast area limitations of the 360's. Differing optical media speeds are things that streaming games have been coping with since Soul Reaver on PS1. "


???

did you even read what i posted

the 360 DVD drive most likely uses CAV reading technique,which means reading speed is inconsistent in different portions of the Disc,this is evident by the problems rockstar faced :

http://www.joystiq.com/2007/05/02/xbox-3...

Blu-ray drive uses CLV reading method which allows constant reading speed through-out all of the Disc,but thats not the issue i talked about

i posted talking about how can the standard HDD help the devs at rockstar,they can easily stream form both the bluray disc and the HDD at the same time

and whats the point of the Crackdown link ??? that game is no way near GTAIV content level or any other future game

having to redisgn your game and change some aspects of it so that it could stream properly from the 12x DVD drive is a hindrence to the developers as they stated them-selves

and plz.......dont mention Crackdown again ;)

"
having to redisgn your game and change some aspects of it so that it could stream properly from the 12x DVD drive is a hindrence to the developers as they stated them-selves "

Hey, they get paid for it, we shouldn't make their lives to easy otherwise they'll start slacking.

LOL, imagine if they are developing the game using MSs (alleged) 50mill?

Nintendo ditched my arse on the Gamecube and GBA on second thought on the DS at least you can play games old school w/o relying on a peripheral.

True but I see Mario 64's free camera innovative (or maybe second to none) and the jump to 3D giving Mario abilities he couldn't in 2D maybe I'm mistaken that for something else, I know GTA started a trend I'm pretty sure it was how missions were done above all else.

"a game like DR it builds upon a idea that already existed. The hardware just made it possible. Same with GTA."

True, but the shit hardware of the 360 (and as far as I can tell PS3 as well) isn't capable of taking gaming forward while at the same time creating the required (by licensing agreements from the platform holders) HD graphics. It's shit hardware released too early. MS and Sony had better created upscaler boxes for their xbox and PS2, would have been a more worthwhile investment for all of us.

I wonder what's your definition of taking gaming forward? If a game like DR isn't doing that, then what has top be done to move forward in your opinion?

Come on, DR is GTA mixed with zombies, old school boss fights and nice graphics. Hardly innovative and except for the pixels, something that could have been done on the original xbox.

My definition of taking gaming forward is giving me something to play that amazes me. Not shiny versions of the games that I've been playing for years. But those shit HD graphics make game development too costly to also focus on gameplay or to take risks and developers go the easy route of putting everything on the fucking graphics: the easy sellers. What I'm a bit bummed about is that the professional game journalists hardly complain about this. Guess they're gamers first, writers second. Or just graphics whores.

"PS3 deserves this. Even if it bombs in the end, "

It wont. It'll outsell the 360 by end of next year. It's not doing as bad as everyone seems to think

@Les

He, I don't necessarily disagree, but I don't think it's as doom & gloom as you claim it to be. Dead Rising could NOT be done on the oginal Xbox in my opinion. You need a lot of zombies in that game and the whole point of it is more=better.

I enjoy my next-gen games immensly. And I do see a lot of shit I could never experience on my PS2. Graphics aren't necessarily evil you know. They can be put to good use in creating atmospehere a a believable world. Try imaging Oblivion on PS2, it would run like a dog and look like crap. While I do agree it's not terribly original in most cases. Games like Bioshock & Mass Effect do stand out as examples of impressive worldbuildling and imagination.

""PS3 deserves this. Even if it bombs in the end,

I don't understand why PS would deserve this more than any other company. It's just business, just a machine and just coorporate financial plans. Sony profited from RS just as hard as the other way around. Competition is good however. It keeps the rest from slacking.

"He, I don't necessarily disagree, but I don't think it's as doom & gloom as you claim it to be."

Hope you're right. But so far, next gen gaming is a huge disappointment for me. I like Motor Storm but it's not much more fun than Burnout 3. Oblivion's open world is great but it's let down by enemies that level with you (and thus make leveling up pointless), terrible art direction, so many options that you don't really care about any of them and an engine that's been pushed too hard. But maybe I'll be more open for it after finishing the superior FF XII.

The only pluses so far are the PSN and region-free games. MLB The Show and Pro Baseball Spirits are great, though hardly next gen.

"Oblivion's open world is great but it's let down by enemies that level with you (and thus make leveling up pointless), terrible art direction, so many options that you don't really care about any of them and an engine that's been pushed too hard. "

See, I loved Oblivion, all statements except for the engine one were purely your view on the game. Art direction was pretty good and consistent in my view, I loved all the shit I could do and create multple chara's that each tackle the world different and the world looked amazing. The levelling doesn't bother me,

You have to admit on a purely current-gen basis that that game greatly benefits it's new technology. It sounds like you just dont like games that much anymore. I had that period right before I bought my 360. Games like DR and Pinata actually made me happy again to be a gamer.

"It sounds like you just dont like games that much anymore."

I really enjoy FF XII TBH. As well as my baseball games, flow, GripShift and Stardust. And like I said, Motor Storm is very nice. It's just that none of the next gen titles available or announced, apart from LittleBigPlanet, appear to do anything original. Had it not been for the region-free-ness, I could never have justified shelling out for a new console only to play prettier versions of games that I could have enjoyed as much on my GC or PS2.

My hope is on the PSN to bring some original, good quality entertainment. I'll probably give Calling all Cars a try and I'm looking forward to Pain.

Great. The power of the cell now enables gamers to play half-arsed copies of better games but most importantly THEY'RE MASSIVE!!!!

"Great. The power of the cell now enables gamers to play half-arsed copies of better games but most importantly THEY'RE MASSIVE!!!!"

If only they were massive... Multiplatform games sure aren't.

Bandwidth
The PS3 has 22.4 GB/s of GDDR3 bandwidth and 25.6 GB/s of RDRAM bandwidth for a total system bandwidth of 48 GB/s.

The Xbox 360 has 22.4 GB/s of GDDR3 bandwidth and a 256 GB/s of EDRAM bandwidth for a total of 278.4 GB/s total system bandwidth.

Why does the Xbox 360 have such an extreme amount of bandwidth? Even the simplest calculations show that a large amount of bandwidth is consumed by the frame buffer. For example, with simple color rendering and Z testing at 550 MHz the frame buffer alone requires 52.8 GB/s at 8 pixels per clock. The PS3's memory bandwidth is insufficient to maintain its GPU's peak rendering speed, even without texture and vertex fetches.

The PS3 uses Z and color compression to try to compensate for the lack of memory bandwidth. The problem with Z and color compression is that the compression breaks down quickly when rendering complex next-generation 3D scenes.

HDR, alpha-blending, and anti-aliasing require even more memory bandwidth. This is why Xbox 360 has 256 GB/s bandwidth reserved just for the frame buffer. This allows the Xbox 360 GPU to do Z testing, HDR, and alpha blended color rendering with 4X MSAA at full rate and still have the entire main bus bandwidth of 22.4 GB/s left over for textures and vertices.

Xbox 360 has 278.4 GB/s of memory system bandwidth. The PS3 has less than one-fifth of Xbox 360's (48 GB/s) of total memory system bandwidth. This is also for developers fast and effective to use for: fast loading, textures, field area, particle effects, ram access etc. As commented by developers of GOW, why it would have trouble running on PS3 to the same standard.


CONCLUSION
When you break down the numbers, Xbox 360 has provably more performance than PS3. Keep in mind that Sony has a track record of over promising and under delivering on technical performance. The truth is that both systems pack a lot of power for high definition games and entertainment.

However, hardware performance, while important, is only a third of the puzzle. Xbox 360 is a fusion of hardware, software and services. Without the software and services to power it, even the most powerful hardware becomes inconsequential. Xbox 360 games—by leveraging cutting-edge hardware, software, and services—will outperform the PlayStation 3...And so far has been doing this.

You cant judge an entire machines performance on one piece of data. There's much more to it than that.

.. But i cant be arsed going into detail.. just be happy in your belief you have the bestest machine - and go and have hand relief while you keep telling yourself that.

Yep as a games machine 360 rocks. I have a PS3 too, not bothered with the Wii. The fact is nothing has proven so far or surpassed me that PS3 is the god of console gaming - NOTHING. Everything from cross format games play/look better on 360.

Rockstar doing PS3-exclusive.... Until they change their minds and release a better version on 360 (just like all the other devs)

/Fixed.

To be honest the words 'PS3' and 'exclusive' when used in the same sentence without the use of the word(s) 'lost'/'loses another' quite frankly just makes me chuckle...

"To be honest the words 'PS3' and 'exclusive' when used in the same sentence without the use of the word(s) 'lost'/'loses another' quite frankly just makes me chuckle..."

But then again, you are a sad person...

@ TRUTH

It's not like if you copy/paste bullshit again and again that eventually it'll be true. I think by now we can establish that the 360 is the graphics whores machine that gives you (short) HD versions of last gen games. PS3 should be about heavily physics based/AI based games but unfortunately developers spend Cell’s teraflops on matching the graphical output of the 360, with mixed results. So what PS3 ends up with for now is also short HD versions of last gen games. The Wii is all about innovative and accessible gameplay that’s not being appreciated by the game media made out of hardcore gamers (of the few titles that got good reviews, two were GC ports and not typical Wii games). It’s the only machine that actually offers something new but as hardcore gamers apparently only appreciate graphics, it’s not being seen as a full contender. Even though it’s trashing its rivals sales-wise.

Les, sonny, I'm not sad in the slightest, I just giggle to myself about all you silly little fanboys/girls. If the truth upsets you and makes you resort to personal insults on a gaming site, maybe you should ask yourself who the 'sad' one really is eh... Infact to make it easier for yourself, ask the question while looking in a mirror, it may help you discover the answer...

:)

PS. I wouldn't bother trying a 'witty' come back as it's about time you understood that people laugh at you, not with you.

"PS. I wouldn't bother trying a 'witty' come back as it's about time you understood that people laugh at you, not with you."

In other words, shouldn't act like you...

You couldn't even if you tried. You take your silly little toys far too seriously,you let yourself get enraged if others don't agree with your Sony loving ways, whereas I couldn't give a tiddlywink what system you like or not or that you're the lamest Sony zealot in town.

Must admit though, the "you're sad" comment cut me deeper than I've ever been cut before.

/Tear in eye :(

@ Kryon

I’ll refrain from commenting on your wittiness as that’s purely subjective and will not really add to the discussion.

I was reacting to the ‘great’ comment in which you express joy at the PS3 losing exclusives. If you’re really not a fanboy and as unbiased as you claim to be, there’s no reason to feel joy at that. And it’s my personal opinion that getting enjoyment out of someone’s’ loss is sad. Do with it what you like.

Had it been your intention to just stir a discussion by having a stab at fanboys of any alignment (not really a sing of maturity in my view unless in jest or supported by proper arguments), I would have seen comments from your side making fun of the 360. Which I haven’t. That might be because I don’t read all threads on EG or it may be because there simply aren’t. You tell me.

If you actually ever read through any of my comments, you’ll find that I’m one of the biggest critics of the PS3 (with that I mean criticism founded on logic, not just saying ‘PS3 is doomed’ in every thread). I’m not impressed by the machine. It’s just that the 360 impresses me even less. If that makes me a Sony fanboy in your eyes, so be it.

keep it up guys! ive got my popcorn right here..

i love a good read!

@Madlax
sorry dude, but a BR drive is lots slower then a 12x dv drive. so thats a no go...