Rise of the Argonauts Comments by Robert Purchese

What do RPG fans want? Rise of the Argonauts' lead designer Charley Price believes they want a strong, customisable character with choices to make. And beyond that, it should be simple. Price says he's been busy "discarding the baggage of Dungeons & Dragons" for Argonauts - due out on PC, PS3 and 360 later this year - because it's laborious and repetitive. There's no juggling inventory items, no health or mana bars, no levelling up, XP or grind, and menus are few.

So, basically RPG fans don't want RPGs anymore, we want action games. Riiiiiight. Thanks Charley.

I think the last thing most RPG fans want to see is another generic "action-RPG."

"Originally there was a "Miracle and Torment system" where a god randomly chipped in and helped out, but this has been scrapped in favour of the d-pad powers."

Good call, looking forward this!

Discarding the 'baggage of Dungeons & Dragons' indeed.
The last thing RPG fans want is another God of War or Beowulf clone.

I was really interested in this until i found out how much they'd simplified it, i mean no inventory, wtf?

Quint2020;
I think it's a good move to be honest, I mean why do you actually need an inventory? In most case it serves just for carrying quest items, which can be presented in other ways, and vendor-trash. Once you remove those two from the equation (whether you have a quest item or not should appear in the quest log and vendor-trash items just add pointless grind) you're only left with alternative weapons and potions (or equivalents).
It sounds like this game has decided you can carry 1 of each weapon type at all times, so you don't need the inventory for those, and I'm assuming they've added an alternative to potions as well. Probably much like the Conan title did.

Kratos reckons Jason's a whoopsie and could have him and his girly puff Argonaughts any day.

So, in summary, a slightly more complex weapon levelling, then it's God of War with a squad. Which might be a good thing, but it's got some mighty big sandals to fill, and with old red, white and angry on the way with GoW III, it had better be bl**dy good.

If that's the size of the snakes, how effing big is Medusa's head??? O_O

...so what are the RPG elements in this game?

"You'll visit Delphi, the island of Apollo..."
Either I'm not reading this properly or the writer doesn't have a clue about Greece (and maybe shouldn't have done the preview). Delphi isn't an island...

@Rirekon

Because upgrading your character with new weapons and armour is one of the best things about RPGs (for me anyway).

@Nosrak:
I second that. wtf Charley?

Okay, im more of an JRPG-guy, but still, that was a frightening read.

Got to agree with the comments in this thread. What RPG fans like are RPG's. You can tweak the formula, make it user friendly, surprise us. But action games with all the RPG elements stripped off are hardly what RPG fans want. Doubt this game is being made for us...

Wendelius

Because upgrading your character with new weapons and armour is one of the best things about RPGs (for me anyway).

Sounds like it has that, given that it notes the shield as being an exception. I'm guessing that you don't have this magic grid of stuff any more, though.

I'm cautiously looking forward to it based on the descriptions.

This looks like shit. That man has a warped understanding of the games industry, too. 'Games must be shorter and dumber!'

Take a look at WoW, Titans Quest, Neverwinter Nights, Diablo, Fallout, and nearly any other popular RPG franchise and you'll see that YOU'VE MADE A GAME WITHOUT ALL THE GOOD SHIT THEY HAVE.

[Edited by Bertie]

Teknohead, you sir are a 100% idiot

I hope you realize we are talking about a game

Whoa! I can see this game has fanboys already. This game = balls.

so medusa has been 'reinterpreted' as...a hydra

awesome

This 'action RPG' sounds heavy on the action and very light on the RPG.

I wish people would stop telling us RPG fans what we want...

Quint2020;
I never suggested you shouldn't be able to upgrade weapons and items, but there is nothing about that mechanic which requires an inventory.
For example you have no inventory in Overlord yet you can upgrade your weapons and armour.

As much as I don't like the mans interpretation of what an RPG should be, I'm still liking the sound of this.

I am afraid that doesn't sound too hot.

And is it just me, or isn't there a single screenshot, let alone trailer, that shows how the game is actually played? Every secreenie has a different perspective.

UncleLou, I was thinking the exact same thing. The screenshots could as easily be from cutscenes as from concept art as from gameplay... And the article doesn't really help shed any light. I can imagine this game being a long series of glorified Quicktime events.

Pants.

Lets make a rpg without rpg elements. Boggles the mind. Role on D III

I'm looking forward to this, however I think it's stretching it to call it an RPG. Even an Action RPG. The way it's presented it's just an action game, all the RPG elements have been removed because we RPG fans, apparently, don't want them anymore. So, it's an RPG because you play Jason of the Argonauts... OK, in COD4 you play as Soap the SAS guy, so is that an RPG too?

The RPG elements are there: skill trees, weapons and armour to collect - in one case a set of gladiator armour that is upgraded as you find more materials for your blacksmith to work with, super-powerd god weapons, dialogue with multiple outcomes, choices to make, stories. It may not let you fuss around with a backpack and potions and reagents, but do you really want that aspect in the first place?

How dissimilar is it really to Mass Effect or even Jade Empire? Yet BioWare escapes the same sort of criticism because of its heritage.

Next to Fable 2 this is one of my most anticipated games of the year and I like levels and experience and all of the "antiquated trappings" of role-playing games. I think it's a brave and refreshing game and that all of the design decisions Liquid made have been logical and sensible.

It also mirrors the covergence towards a single and less distinguished genre we've seen games like Mass Effect, BioShock and God of War begin.

For those complaining about Medusa, look again at the larger image, you can clearly see her at the top of the screen.

I think if a game isnt very good, then making in short and easy is the way to go...and this doesn't look very good. And yes that is a purely superficial statement made on the merits of the screen shots...but hell I guess his understanding of what gamers want should start with "awesome roxxxor GFX that PWN gamez like pac-man and galaxian"

I'll always argue, that the heart and soul of an RPG is exactly what the name spells - Role Playing. Sure you get to play a role in virtually every game, but the distinguishing part would be choice, as in, I can play the role as I see fit, not follow a script. That's why I consider Mass Effect an RPG (even though some of the choices were really artificial) and Bioshock not so much. As long as the game gives you meaningful choices to make in an interesting story, it's an RPG. The "old-school D&D mechanics" may, or may not be in, that's just gameplay design. The best RPGs in gaming history, BG, BG2, Planescape, Fallouts, all had gameplay backing up an interesting, even if not very high standard, story which played very much as the player wanted it to.

That being said, I don't recognize RPGs as some higher for of games, even as the story makes or brakes the game for me. Some of the most immersive stories in recent games, better than those in most RPG's, were told in shooters or RTS's - HL2, COD4 and WiC for instance. They are not RPGs though and from the looks of it Argonauts won't be either.

Hi Unclelou,

The Medusa screenshot that is shown in the article is gameplay footage plus some of the screenshots in the Eurogamer RotA gallery are taken from actual gameplay.

Well I like the sound of this from the preview and I don't care if it's an action RPG as I rather like that type of game and its not like there are actually a lot of them on the current gen of consoles.

Sounds very good to me.

The Medusa screenshot that is shown in the article is gameplay footage plus some of the screenshots in the Eurogamer RotA gallery are taken from actual gameplay.

Thanks, I didn't really doubt though that they're ingame and/or even taken from gameplay moments, but I'd like to see screenshots showing the interface, camera perspective during playing, etc. I have no idea if the game is more of an over-the-shoulder, normal third-person like Tomb Raider, or isometric affair. :)

Yep. Quite a lot of those shots in the gallery are from actual gameplay. There's no HUD and you spin around and stab people behind you and all that sort of thing, which often gives the perspective the "specially taken for a screenshot" look.

Combat was great actually, but we did only see it in small doses. Hopefully it'll have a lasting appeal. Actually a lot of the footage from the trailers is what happens in your fight scenes - that Liquid is confident enough in it to show it off like this is quite nice. Is vastly more engaging than Oblivion.

Ah, ok. Cheers, Bertie.

I remain somewhat sceptical, but will keep a close eye on it. I am definitely interested.

Any game without guns in it is of interest but while I've been looking forward to this, it does sound too dumbed-down to be of interest and yes, echoing the comments of others, where's the RPG??

WTF can't someone just do another Oblivionesque game already, I was crestfallen when Two Worlds turned out so shite ...

"WTF can't someone just do another Oblivionesque game already, I was crestfallen when Two Worlds turned out so shite ..."

Amen to that.

But Oblivion had so much padding and lacked direction. I loved it, don't get me wrong, although I wish I'd had a great PC to play it on so I could tweak it with mods.

Admittedly the trouble Rise of the Argonauts may have is longevity. Once you finish it there's probably little to go back for, unless you want to try and complete every little bit. Still, BioShock also had no multiplayer. I'm not trying to insinuate that this will be as dramatic - I see it more as a well-rounded and enjoyable adventure, but I admire its balls for not feeling the need to bolt bits on in order to tick boxes.

Anyone getting the feeling this is going to end up rather average? For some reason, the less attention the media gives something the better I feel about it these days.

Like Space Rangers 2. Eurogamer hasn't even bothered reviewing that and it is probably the greatest epic rpg/action/adventure/rts scifi game in the universe. Yeah, I went there.

this just looks like that gladiator game that came out a while ago. if it really was more of an rpg I'd be interested but it seems to have more in common with those goddawful devil may cry and ninja gaiden type games..

RPG =/= collecting items and grinding experience points. RPG is about character development, and it sounds like this game has taken a more 'realistic' approach to that through the use of conversation options and decisions.

And I find it ironic that the same people complaining that this isn't an RPG then go and proclaim Oblivion as an RPG. I mean... Jesus Christ.

The Medusa screenshot that is shown in the article is gameplay footage plus some of the screenshots in the Eurogamer RotA gallery are taken from actual gameplay.

who is being stupid here? EG or the game developers? That is a Hydra not the Medusa.

The "old-school D&D mechanics" may, or may not be in, that's just gameplay design.

Amen to that and everyone who said similar. For me an RPG is about having a character I can develop as I want, and imersing myself in a fantasy. XP, HP, levelling up, and rolling 2d4+2 damage are barriers to this; not requirements.

D+D is a good system. It was designed to allow me some way of calculating battles and character development waaaay before computers were there to do it. But now, I have a computer that is capable of doing so much more than take it in turns to roll dice for my characters to save me having to do it myself. It's surely time to move on? If I never saw little numbers rising out of the tops of characters heads again I would be a happy, happy man.

will this game be short? I hate short rpgs. I am asking cause the developer of this game was like new games are going to be short etc. leads one to think his game, ROA, will be a short game.