Nintendo: we're "not good" at core games

By Oli Welsh Published 17 March, 2010

"We have to court third-parties" - Reggie.

Nintendo of America boss Reggie Fils-Aime has admitted that Nintendo is "not good" at creating "core" games, and needs to actively court third-parties to make more mature titles like BioShock 2 for the platform.

"The fact of the matter is we know we create great content for younger consumers, we know we've got great content for more casual players, and we want fantastic content for that more active player who loves Metroid or Zelda but maybe also wants something like a BioShock 2 to play as well," he told Industry Gamers at GDC.

"And we also recognize that we don't create that type of content ourselves. We're not good at it and it's not a key focus area. We want that content on our platform, so we have to court third-party developers and encourage them to make [those games]."

Asked how Nintendo might persuade third-parties, who seem increasingly sceptical about supporting the Wii, to create games for it, Fils-Aime argued that developing expensive, technically advanced core games for other platforms was not profitable.

"Developers love to create technically advanced games, and very visually stunning games, but the fact of the matter is not all of that content is selling exceptionally well either," he said.

"Look at the most recent NPD results. I'm not sure how much was invested into a game like Dante's Inferno, or how much is invested into a game like BioShock 2, but if that sales level is the best that they will do in a particular month, and it'll fall off rapidly from there, then those games aren't going to pay off their investment."

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About Oli Welsh

Oli is Eurogamer's acting deputy editor and reviews editor and likes to take things one word at a time. He is among the best dressed people in South London.

Read more articles from Oli by visiting the Oli Welsh archive page.

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Comments (92) Latest comment 2 years ago

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  • woodnotes #1 2 years ago

    WHAT!?

    Nintendo used to be amazing at "core" games. And SMG shows they still now how to do awesome gameplay mechanics. They're great at anything they want to do - it's just that they want to do causal-market stuff right now.

    EDIT: Reading it further and he's basically just repeating himself. HD games are too expensive to make etc etc.
    Edited by 2 at 17/03/10 @ 09:30

  • super_monty #2 2 years ago

    Well Reggie you toss pot let me know when you make such a game and I might actually use my wii rather than it being that crap waste of money which I haven't turn on since mario galaxy, which for the record I thought was a crap game.

  • Pastici #3 2 years ago

    People can't really argue now. He pretty much *said* nintendo make games for kids.

    Still enjoy playing my DS though.
    Edited by 1 at 17/03/10 @ 09:37

  • mfnick #4 2 years ago

    Pretty messed up headline EG. He doesnt say they arent good at core games, but that they dont do the more 'mature' & adult games like Bioshock. Which is fair enough. Its never been their scene & I doubt their (many) fans would want them to go that way.

    Im not a fan of Nintendo or their style at all. & Reggie needs punching in the face. But that headline is messed up & just fanboy baiting rubbish. Surely theres no reason to resort to that to get page hits?


    Edited by 1 at 17/03/10 @ 09:52

  • ChrisS #5 2 years ago

    He's not really saying they're not good at core games as such - he talks about Metroid and Zelda as examples of games they make for enthusiast players - more that Nintendo's not going to make M-rated, story-driven titles like Bioshock because it's not the company's area of expertise.

    It's a shame Nintendo doesn't use more second-party developers to make games like this. I think the third-party ship has pretty much sailed for Wii as far as core titles aimed at adult audiences go.

  • uglygamer #6 2 years ago

    Reggie does have a point. They simply don't make core games as good as they used to. The western developers have raised the bar and its difficult for Nintendo and other Jpanese developers to keep up. Good core games cost a lot of money to produce and Nintendo are being successful by producing shit casual stuff.

    As for Mario galaxy it was a good 8/10 game IMO, not the amazing genre defining game that people make it out to be.

  • miiiguel #7 2 years ago

    Well, I think he's mostly right. It's all good for us who study or have our jobs to comment about how expensive games are, or how dare thee trying to sell all that dlc. Truth is games are cheaper (or at least the same) than a decade ago and they are way more expensive produce: 2nd hand market, etc.
    It's all nice and esay to comment from the safety of our work's laptop, truth is this is a buisness and it's main goal is to make money.

  • Quint2020 #8 2 years ago

    No "core" gamer is ever going to have a wii as his/her platform of choice, decent releases are just too few and far between.

  • Der_tolle_Emil #9 2 years ago

    Not sure if it is a bit too late to get the 3rd parties to work for the Wii now. He is absolutely right though - Nintendo doesn't make m-rated core games and the Wii could use a bit more of them. It is as reggie said however: Developers want to push the technical aspects just as much and this is where the Wii is lacking. The difference in technical prowess is just too big and the ship has sailed. Maybe I'm wrong - actually I hope that I am wrong but I doubt it.

    You really shouldn't quote the "not good at core" games out of context though. The core games Nintendo makes are fantastic, they just lack all the blood and weapons the "other core" games have.

  • nickthegun #10 2 years ago

    No matter how many times I hear the phrase 'core games' it still makes my arse clench.

  • CaptainScarlet #11 2 years ago

    I assume he means "Core" as in Mature? If he means hard core then I dare anyone to play titles like Zelda, Metroid, Super Mario Galaxies etc and not find them to be challenging games for a harder core gaming audience.

    Normal maps, blood and brains do not a hard core game make.

  • anomagnus #12 2 years ago

    I think Reggie was very clear in saying they don't make core games anymore, and they lack the ability for it. Its simply not good enough to continue to throw out Zelda and Metriod as NIntendos only examples of a 'core' game. Yes, they're good, but they're the same franchises that have been around for years. Nintendo is failing at creating new IP that resonates with the core gamer.

    It was also telling that he chose Dante's Inferno and Bioshock 2 as games that didnt do well. Dante was a flawed game, it was never going to be a winner. It just wasnt good enough. Bioshock, as far as i am concerned was a massive disappointment. He avoided mentioning games like MW2, which are big budget great looking games, and do last in the charts.

    Nintendo relies upon a fad to sell their hardware. The Wii caught the mood of a genreation, to an extent. But i have so many non gamer mates, of various demographics, that bought a Wii, played it for a month, and put it away. Its not enough to just sell the box, you need the games to create the culture and loyalty.

    I have said before, and been marked down for it by the nintendo fanboys, that i am highly sceptical that all the people that bought a Wii will buy the next nintendo machine. I don't think they'll capture lightening twice, and i think when the next Nintendo machine comes out, they're going to find that the casual market has moved on to facebook games, and the 'core' gamer market has been eroded, almost to zero, by Nintendo's derisory treatment of them, and they'll have nothing.
    Edited by 1 at 17/03/10 @ 09:58

  • Johnson #13 2 years ago

    The fact is that what a "core" game is has changed. Mario, Zelda and the rest used to be core games but now they've been supplanted by realistic works like Call of Duty. I'm just happy Nintendo still marches to their own drum.

  • mcmonkeyplc #14 2 years ago

    Admitting you have a problem is the first step. Well done old boy.

  • Geordiemp #15 2 years ago

    If big N had put a decent direct x CPU and a half decent graphics chip they would have got all the multiplats that were developed for sony and MS.

    So its there own fault

  • Geordiemp #16 2 years ago

    If big N had put a decent direct x CPU and a half decent graphics chip they would have got all the multiplats that were developed for sony and MS.

    So its there own fault

  • Raz76 #17 2 years ago

    So what he is saying is that they want core games on their platforms, they want third parties to make them, but that they aren't profitable to make.

  • playgen #18 2 years ago

    This was the same problem with the N64 and Gamecube, except its even worse now as they have less second party devs and the wii is so succesful that theres no excuse for not investing. If Nintendo helped more with funding and marketing, I'm sure more developers would be happy to make mature wii games, without any help its generally not worth the risk.
    Edited by 1 at 17/03/10 @ 10:05

  • hiddenranbir #19 2 years ago

    Mario Galaxy is casual and for younger gamers.

    his talk of core is our want for derderbloodyadultmaturederderder games. Like GEARS OF WAAAR!!!
    Edited by 1 at 17/03/10 @ 10:04

  • chrisjm #20 2 years ago

    to fail would imply trying.

  • miiiguel #21 2 years ago

    I think he's saying he'd love to have "core" games on his platform but they are not a good investment, so he perfers not to use his money.

  • StooMonster #22 2 years ago

    Here's what I hear Reggie saying "And we also recognize that we don't create that type of content ourselves. We're not good at it and it's not a key focus area. We want that content on our platform, so we have to court third-party developers and encourage them to make [those games] and take the risk because we don't want to."

  • swissorc #23 2 years ago

    Why do you even own a wii super_monty I agree you wasted your money although you can't really be a nintendo fan in the first place as anyone who is knew exactly what they were in for when they bought their wii. I am a little dissapointed with it at times but never have I regretted owning it. And, if there aren't any games on it you like right now just dedicate your money else where to either your other console or another hobby my money gets distributed between my wii and my 360 and I cannot afford or have time to buy and play everything I want it confuses me when people say there are no great games on wii. There are, it's just that they are the sort of games your expect to appear on a nintendo console if you were expecting something else you clearly either have never owned a nintendo product before or are too young to have bought a console before this generation

  • speedjack #24 2 years ago

    I'm 38 and love Nintendo for the charm, quality and colour in their first party titles.

    I'm not sure what a 'core' gamer is, but to my mind it generates images of a racist, homophobic 12 year old male online in MW2, and I think Nintendo really need to ask 'is that the market we want ?'

    I think the truth of course is somewhere in between. Nintendo can do decent 'mature' games on the Wii - the problem is they haven't tried since Metroid Prime Trilogy, and that was a Gamecube game.

  • owl #25 2 years ago

    they just simply don't make enough games full stop. that's the problem.

  • varsas #26 2 years ago

    Johnson: The fact is that what a "core" game is has changed. Mario, Zelda and the rest used to be core games but now they've been supplanted by realistic works like Call of Duty. I'm just happy Nintendo still marches to their own drum.

    This is exactly right, Nintendo still make more traditional core games better than anyone else.

  • Pac #27 2 years ago

    To be honest I think Reggie is asking a little much of 3rd party developers to create visually stunning games for the Wii when it is clearly much harder to develop those games for this platform. The Wii is perfect for casual games and the odd tripple A title such as SMG2.

    However, he seems to be saying that Nintendo are quite happy to continue developing casual games, which require little investment and risk, whilst third party developers should be the ones to put their asses on the line.

    Thanks Reggie!

  • X3Entente #28 2 years ago

    well you should have thought about that before you decided on an overclocked gamecube with motion controls as your next gen console. If you invested in better hardware with similar specs to the 360 and ps3 then we would be seeing quality multiplatform titles like fallout 3, bioshock and gta 4 on a nintendo system, oh well maybe next gen youll learn from this.

  • Der_tolle_Emil #29 2 years ago

    If you invested in better hardware with similar specs to the 360 and ps3 then we would be seeing quality multiplatform titles like fallout 3, bioshock and gta 4 on a nintendo system, oh well maybe next gen youll learn from this.

    Not necessarily. Nintendo's hardware was always competitive (if not faster) than the other consoles yet 3rd party support was even far more non existant than it is now. The weak hardware is not the only reason and probably not even the biggest reason.

  • irve77 #30 2 years ago

    i think you need to change that to Nintendo: We can't be bothered to make core games .

    fact remains that from the NES to the gamecube ( and at the start of the Wii's life ) Nintendo made VERY good core games .. but they see more profit from cheap dross than they do quality games so they don't bother anymore.

  • ignatiusjreilly #31 2 years ago

    Headlines like this are pointless because there are no two gamers who can actually agree what the term 'core' means.

    And of course it's pointless because he didn't even seem to say the word 'core' anyway.

  • Stompy #32 2 years ago

    Nintendo are masters of 'core gaming', but a certain kind of core gaming. It is not their fault that core has now moved from, for example, platformers to FPSs.

    Hopefully this sort of comment highlights the next Nintendo console strategy - seeing them 'open up' and be enticing to all kinds of game would be great.

  • drumbaby #33 2 years ago

    He seems to forget what constitutes a core game. Zelda, Mario, Metroid...none are my cup of tea particularly, but all these have been hailed by core gamers as works of genius at some stage or other.

    They know damn well what a core game is and how to make it...what they should admit to however is that they've realised that the casual gamer makes them far more money and so have abandoned the core with their first party offerings, electing to concentrate on churning out light-weight twaddle instead.

  • Slipstream #34 2 years ago

    Nintendo of Japan backlash to this statement in 5...
    Edited by 1 at 17/03/10 @ 10:55

  • Malek86 #35 2 years ago

    Ridiculous. Nintendo has made a bunch of awesome "core" games. If you don't want to do them anymore, that's a different matter, but don't go telling me you can't do them.

    Reggie is getting less and less bearable every day.

  • JeroenZM #36 2 years ago

    That's ok, Nintendo. You still have ip's like Starfox, Donkey Kong, Wave Race, F-Zero and Pikmin to fall back on. Now bring them out already.

  • abigsmurf #37 2 years ago

    Perhaps you should actually try supporting your third parties rather than directly competing and crushing them?

    Sony and MS give a helping hand promiting other people's titles for their consoles. Nintendo need to do the same.

  • CatWeazle #38 2 years ago

    This just ain't gonna happen for Nintendo in this console generation.

    If they want the big cross-platform releases, they need a console which can cut the mustard with the big boys. Until then it'll be kids' games, novelty games, and the occasional on-rails FPS port.

    On the plus side, Ninty is now so obscenely minted that it could throw a lot of yen into bringing out something really competitive in a couple of years.

  • captainrentboy #39 2 years ago

    I can kind of see Nintendo's reasoning, I mean why spend millions and millions on something like God Of War 3 or Gears when their third party developers can spend around £20 making Just Dance and still go on to top the charts for weeks and weeks.
    Personally I never bought a Wii because it's absolutely flooded with identikit junk, the graphics look like vaseline covered shite on my big ole HDTV, I rarely have mates over wanting to piss about with party games and I'm far too fat and lazy to be waggling and waving around so much which is what 90% of it's games entail, this is why I'll also ignore Move and Natal this year. The fact that they very rarely release something aimed at the more 'hardcore' market just tops it all off.
    But I can't deny that they've super successfully tapped into a whole other games playing market that isn't like me (so why should they feel the need to change) and their marketing campaigns are sheer genius, something Sony and Microsoft will have to try and emulate if they want to steal any of the Wii's thunder this Christmas.

  • Old_Books #40 2 years ago

    This is a good example of websites reporting what they want to hear. He doesn't mention core games at all, something which is ultimately a useless term because, as has already been said, the definition of what is or isn't 'core' is subjective. Ninty still make some of the best core games around for me personally whereas titles like Call of Duty and GTA are mainstream, (and there is nothing wrong with that IMO); I think they would be for a lot of people who have been gaming pre-Playstation. Nintendo have has this problem with third party titles since the SNES and it was one of their own making due to their draconian policies; in that sense I have little sympathy with them.

    Edited by 2 at 17/03/10 @ 12:26

  • vizzini #41 2 years ago

    The term core-games is used too liberally; if he means just another FPS or hybrid 3rd person shooter, big on technology, but a story not worth telling, then he has nothing to worry about.

    However if he means a core-game with a great story that is realistic, with harrowing or dark undertones; even when the game ends, and an engine that pushes the boundaries of real-time graphics on consoles, accompanied by high production quality, then his concerns are very valid. Nintendo are too wholesome to make games like Metal Gear 3 and are too cost effective to fully polish titles they way they previously did.

    Since the Wii's launch, they appear to have cut corners on production quality from the great Gamecube days. Their better franchises; such as Mario Kart, 3D Zelda, 3D Mario are all inferior to their Gamecube versions imo. That, coupled with shelves and shelves of unpolished 3rd party games or shovel-ware, have all but erased the respect I had for the company as a platform holder; they were previously the perfect developer/publisher of games for me, even within their slightly childish story telling, I'm really hoping they move to developing/publishing for one of the other two platforms soon, so they can go back to being great at what they do best; making games.

  • TonyHarrison #42 2 years ago

    Nice headline, having read the full interview elsewhere, he's talking about Nintendo not being good at a certain type of 'core' game, not all 'core' games in general.

    Aside from a few second party games from yesteryear like Goldeneye and Perfect Dark, Nintendo just doesn't make that kind of game (the kind he's actually talking about), and I for one hope they never will.

  • layleeloo #43 2 years ago

    People are saying the Wii will never be the platform of choice for core gamers. That ISNT what the article is about nor what the guy is saying you wallies. He is just saying their focus is on other kinds of games - yeh some aimed at younger audiences but it doesnt mean just kiddies games. Look at Mario Galaxy - that game was pretty nails and I'd love to see any 'children' who completed it to any form of high degree. Sure Ninty make some games for kids, but often their look makes people think they are for kids when in actual fact they are not. I love my PS3, and my 360 however my wii gets as much if not more use due to the brilliant exclusives it has. Muramasa, Smash Bros, De Blob, Red Steel 2, Madworld to name but a few. None of those are Child's games are they?

    I agree with the article and what he is saying - however people seem to be able to totally miss interpret what has actually been said. Or should I say the non biased read the article as written - the fanboys read something else entirely.

  • GamesConnoisseur #44 2 years ago

    Arguments on what defines core and casual will still always rages on, but there are strong evidences of where there are two distinct consumers.

    Those who occasionally purchases games for fun and on strength of either advertising, words of mouth or brand and another who FOLLOWS the games as a hobby and having good knowledges of types of games interested in. Therefore purchase a lot more games as well as having MORE time to commit to the hobby.

    Label them what you will, and a lot of people are in between, changes of circumstances/commitments etc. However Nintendo's business is almost entirely dependent on the larger casual market which is enough to support them but they lost out the second group to rival manufacturer.

    So should Nintendo stick to the current business market? How long until people move onto the next big thing ie PS3 Move or alternative?

    Would committed gamers by prepared to wait for Nintendo to comes up with the good?

    Wii is the most underused console for lots of us hobby gamers, gathering dust and Nintendo know it, but 'us' arent the wider world.

  • zedzee #45 2 years ago

    "We're not good at it". That's because you're too far up Mario's back side and can't see the wood from the $$$ that the Revolution (I'm sorry, but I just can't bring myself to call it by its commercial name) has raked in to bother!

    Sometimes, I envy marketing/director types, not because of the nonsense they can get away with saying but because of their fat salaries!!

  • Salaminizer #46 2 years ago

    stop crying, no one bought Eternal Darkness (I did though, I'm sure many will say "I bought" too, but obviously it didn't sell as much as it should), why would they try again?
    Edited by 1 at 17/03/10 @ 13:02

  • makeamazing #47 2 years ago

    The main problem for Nintendo this generation is they decided not to put in HD. They wanted to be the cheapest gaming console out there, go for the families market, and have the wii remote as the "new" device... and it worked... many of us rushed out to buy a wii (I did on day 1)...

    But unlike me, many of the people who purchased the first batch of games were not your average gamer, they were either new to the hobby, or extremely casual, these arent people who buy lots of games, so when companies made more tradditional games, alot of people didnt buy them. When the HD consoles got cheaper and better games begun to come out, we all jumped to the Xbox or PS3. So even if you had something like Bioshock on the Wii, there would be no doubt that "we" would buy if for the HD consoles, because graphics do matter.

    So it will be easier for the Wii next gen when they go HD because they can court the average gamer better, BUT i think Sony/MS have realised that and have ensured they dont lose the people who would buy a HD console for next gen by ensuring they have the controller aspect sorted now rather than later. When next gen comes around, i will be getting a PS3 because it will have all of my games/DLC that i have purchased, my trophies and will be able to do wii like games if i ever thought i needed it. Nintendo are in a pickle for the next gen imho.
    Edited by 1 at 17/03/10 @ 13:08

  • frunk #48 2 years ago

    Rubbish

    Nintendo used to RULE core games... they have just got fat and lazy!

    Strange since most of their games are Exercise orientated these days

  • Darren #49 2 years ago

    I'm amazed at this comment.

    Nintendo used to be famous in the NES, SNES, N64 and GameCube days for making core games, it's only with the Wii that they've seemingly abandoned them but we all know why that is. Casual games with little depth or longevity are what attracted the masses to the Wii and made it such a huge success compared with the N64 and 'Cube before it. It's not that Nintendo aren't very good at core games IMO, it's that they don't seem to want to make them any more because they're not the games that sell well on the Wii!

    The lack of these core games on the Wii is what makes the system such a massive disappointment for me but, hey, at least I've got Super Mario Galaxy 2 to look forward to in June and a new Zelda game at some point after. :)

  • alcides #50 2 years ago

    CORE gaming is what has kept Nintendo alive right up to the Wii, before there was even a notion of so-called casual gaming.

    I use that example a lot, but Animal Crossing used to be an obscure japanese niche game, exactly the kind to attract only the geekest of geeks. More often than not, such games are discovered by young adults first.

    Gamecube had Skies Of Arcadia, IKARUGA, F-Zero GX, Baten Kaitos, Resident Evil 4, Rebirth, 0, Zelda, Fucking Metroid Prime, Viewtiful Joe, Killer7, Metal Gear Twin Snakes, SoulCalibur2!! Games for Nintendo consoles don't have to suck!. GC was a hardcore machine. It had unapologetically colorful, wicked games, as opposed to overall brownish and greenish and greyish PS2 titles (MGS3, ICO, Silent Hill...)

    It's actually hilarious that Reggie would say that, since Nintendo aren't even trying! Even their casual output comes down to a trickle on both their consoles. Nintendo is just not making enough games anymore.

    Developing on a 10 year-old hardware is not my idea of building a future-proof expertise for oneself, so I understand companies who wish to follow those gamers who appreciate cutting-edge graphics abandon the Wii. (And have some notions of connectivity, online ID, DLC implementation, demo planning, achievements... everything the lack of wich makes the Wii a prehistoric console)

    Bottom line, I loved the gamecube, whereas I despise the Wii... Nintendo needs to CUT THE CRAP and buy themselves good studios. I'm sure there a starving coder (oh no!) to be found on their farm somewhere.

  • dickothe1st #51 2 years ago

    Lets all just be honest here. Nobody wants to play bioshock 2 on the wii cos the graphics would be shit. Core gamers im afraid in the majority dont play the wii cos at the expense of a mario title every 3 years, theres scores of AAA games that all look the shit. visuals create immersion and the wii really has very little to offer me that a game like mass effect 2 or alan wake cant

  • alcides #52 2 years ago

    @gungrave Final Fantasy XIII is so shiny btw!
    Edited by 1 at 17/03/10 @ 13:53

  • Stratix #53 2 years ago

    Problem is, they have designed the Wii for their sort of games. The hardware isn't up to these "core" games at the standards players expect them, and the controller just doesn't feel right for "normal" games. That's why I have a Wii AND and Xbox.
    I do enjoy my Wii, but it certainly gets played a hellova lot less than my Xbox.

  • captainrentboy #54 2 years ago

    I don't 100% agree with the 'good graphics don't make a good game' comment. Suuure fancy graphics aren't the soul attribute of the most fantastic games out there, but good graphics, and even good (surround) sound design, can add a whole lot of immersion to some of the titles released nowadays, and this is an area where the Wii can't compete with the other two. I mean, take my favourite two games of the last couple of months or so, Mass Effect 2 and Heavy Rain, if I were playing those whilst controlling cute little Mii characters wandering around bright and colourful simple landcscapes, I have no doubt that I wouldn't have enjoyed them as much as I did and wouldn't have been sucked into the gameworld as much as I was.
    Edited by 1 at 17/03/10 @ 14:08

  • scouserfuller9 #55 2 years ago

    Think his point is they don't do games for more mature hardcore gamers. Metroid is probably the most violent game series they have and even that isn't bad for kids.
    They need more games like Resident Evil, Call Of Duty, etc...from the third parties is what he's saying (or so I think!?)

  • malexous #56 2 years ago

    The usual baseless comments from the usual people. If I replied to them all, I'd cry.

    What everyone seems to forget is Sin and Punishment 2, SMG2 and Metroid: Other M are being released this year. Also, it has been hinted that the Zelda game in development for the Wii will (hopefully) be released this Xmas.

    All those games^ are aimed at the 'core' gamer (as well as the 'casual', of course).

    *waits for the onslaught of -*
    Edited by 5 at 17/03/10 @ 15:48

  • smelly #57 2 years ago

    "Think his point is they don't do games for more mature hardcore gamers. Metroid is probably the most violent game series they have and even that isn't bad for kids. "


    Whenever someone says "mature hardcore" and "violent game" in the same sentence.. i always laugh.. Teenagers always seem to consider themseleves as "mature" when playing violent stuff.

    Violent games are immature. "Mature" games are those for grown ups who dont need violence to justify their game.

  • super_monty #58 2 years ago

    @ scouserfuller9 totally agree mate

    @swissorc I am 37 and owned not just every nintendo console, but nearly every console since the Atari, inculding spectrum, amiga, ps1, ps2, dreamcast etc.

    The reason the wii doesn't get turned on is because my two year old kid probably won't get the hang of it until another few months, there really are no good games on it that appeal to me as a 'core' gamer, yet there was on the nes, snes and gamecube.

    I am only keeping hold of it becuase the trade in value is about £60!!! so i might as well wait and get mario bros and conduit really for about £5 in about 7 years.

    There is simpley a lack of good releases, the best games on it for me are resi evil 4, metroid, Okami and mario kart which I have for the Wii, but shockingly I had played these exact titles on previous gen consoles such as PS2 and gcube.

    Game ranking says it all really:

    Most Popular
    1. New Super Mario Bros. Wii
    88.12%
    Score based on 54 reviews
    2. Super Smash Bros. Brawl 92.67%
    3. Mario Kart Wii 81.99%
    4. Call of Duty: Modern Warfare: Reflex Edition 78.76%
    5. Endless Ocean: Blue World 79.37%
    6. Lego Star Wars: The Complete Saga 80.39%
    7. Super Mario Galaxy 97.28%
    8. The Legend of Zelda: Twilight Princess 94.27%
    9. Wii Sports Resort 82.88%
    10. Sonic & Sega All-Stars Racing 79.69

    So I have go to argee with Reggie, no nintendo are poor at for core gamers, and to an extent even thier old fan base.
    Edited by 1 at 17/03/10 @ 16:08

  • alcides #59 2 years ago

    @malexus, No-no, you should be plussed for pointing at the seamy side of things, but 4 titles this year don't make up for months and months without. They're not quite here yet. Which is kind of the whole point and problem.

    @Mattdamon Aw, finally someone who gets that violence does not mean maturity! Especially in video games!! GTA appeals A LOT to teenagers.

  • malexous #60 2 years ago

    super_monty, out of those 10 games, I see 7 'this gen' games and 2 'this gen but iterations of last gen and other gens' games.
    Edited by 1 at 17/03/10 @ 16:36

  • FogHeart #61 2 years ago

    Quick...what's the most sophisticated, complex game that's been made for all three consoles? I mean where it's essentially the same game on all three barring differences in graphics?

    ....Avatar, I think? Any others?

    For Nintendo, to court a third party is to ask them to make a console exclusive. The gulf between the technical prowess of the other two consoles and the Wii is such that you cannot design for all three simultaneously. So it's pointless to approach them and say, for example, "Hey, how about you design Bayonetta for Wii as well?". The retort would be, "If we did so, we'd have to take a axe to all the planned features we have for the other console versions to ensure the game is the same on all three. We have to design for the lowest common denominatator, and that's you. We aren't willing to have the Wii drag down the quality of the game we want to design."

    Reggie's counter argument to that is, as he states in the article, "So go ahead and make a different game for the Wii, indeed a console exclusive. Your 'technically advanced' games don't make that much of a profit because you put so much investment into producing that much technical advancement."

    But he's not taking into consideration that there is an overhead in creating a team specifically to work on a Wii game that doesn't exist otherwise which offsets any gain in producing a less advanced game. You write a script, you do some artwork, you've done it for both 360 and PS3. You do it for the Wii only, it's the same amount of work for one console. And given the poor sales of the (sigh)'core' titles on the console, they'd feel they are on a hiding to nothing.

    I don't think the developers are concerned about the next Nintendo console being HD as they are of it being to hold its own in other areas where it's lacking - texture memory, RAM, shaders, online. If (as MattDamon and beemoh rightly suggest) Nintendo need to concentrate on taking up some of the market that Sony and MS own, they will need to listen to developers before they spec up the next console. Not plead with them to make games for them afterwards!

    Edit: Out, typos! Out!
    Edited by 1 at 17/03/10 @ 17:08

  • super_monty #62 2 years ago

    @malexous
    my point about the list is that there is not much worth buying past what's on it. Sorry my fault I didn't make that clear.

    Personally I would like some great games for the wii so i don't fel like I have wasted my £, I loved resi 4 on it thought it was one of my best gaming experiences but past that there hasn't been anything to drag me away from the ps3 and 360.

    A new Starfox or something like Rogue Leader would be great and would pull me back p.s. I don't mean a re-hash i mean new levels etc.

    But I have the same problem with the psp another console which doesn't entertain me yet I loved my colour game boy.

  • malexous #63 2 years ago

    @FogHeart

    Games like Bioshock and RE5 (the devs say so) are possible on the Wii; yet where are they?

    Third party developers have a thing with Nintendo consoles.

    The GameCube was more powerful than the PS2 (or so I read) yet the GameCube never got games such as GTA.

  • super_monty #64 2 years ago

    @malexous
    Resi 4 will be possible on the wii but the problem with core gamers is that many of them now have multiple consoles now and would buy it on say the 360, pc or ps3.

    What the wii needs is games for gamers that will be exculsive or better gameplay on the wii, but they seem to have abandoned us.

    Let us see how thier next machine pans out, how many core gamers will buy there next console after this gens nintendo experience, not many I bet and I can't see that many of the casual market rushing to 'up grading' the way traditional gamers have done.

  • man.the.king #65 2 years ago

    Games like "Super Mario Galaxy" may look cartoonish, but imo that doesn't classify them as not for mature gamers. I happen to like SMG more than many other supposedly mature games.

  • scouserfuller9 #66 2 years ago

    @smelly - Never been a fan of all the violence in games but alot people out there are. You need to be mature for those games. If a kid is playing his Wii and has to stab someone in a game what comes to his mind in the future with knives? His previous actions. Grown ups are mature enough to have learnt all this.

    Does my previous comment state I'm a teenage boy saying he wants more blood and guts on the Wii to make himself look like a big boy because if it's just teenage kids that are into all this violence then there's something funny going on here in Oxford!! At the end of the day the immature ones are the developers for bringing it into the world of video games.

    I've been a huge fan of Nintendo since the NES days and know far too much about their history :-) I don't like violence one bit whether it's a game or movie but most people do. My Dad still plays games but he's only into the Resident Evil titles, House Of The Dead, etc... games and he's 50!! So does my uncle who's 35-38 like all the violent games and it's now a thing most people prefer. We're no longer in the 90's!!

    Whether you were calling me a teenager in your comment I do not know but in case you were my Dad was 23 when I was born so if you're good at your maths you'll know the answer to how old I am :-)

  • malexous #67 2 years ago

    "but they seem to have abandoned us."

    They haven't.

  • smelly #68 2 years ago

    "Never been a fan of all the violence in games but alot people out there are. You need to be mature for those games. "

    No you dont at all. In fact i'd argue that you'd need to be mature to play a game like mario, as most teenager wouldn't be seen dead playing something "cartoony" like mario. Preferring instead to be a "grown up" and play games with violence in them.

    It's like back in the 80's (when i grew up) as teenagers we wouldn't dream of going to the cinema to watch a film other than those which made us feel "mature" - i.e. usually some humdrum action film with arnold schwarznegger in it. As a "mature" adult nowadays - i have no issue in watching disney movies (and realise those "mature" films were the exact opposite, and as movies - well - they were a bit crap actually).

    .. And neither do i have problems playing cartoony games...

    Because at the end of the day, i'm under no dillusion - i'm PLAYING with a toy when i play on a games console. I dont need to feel grown up while doing so (in the same way as i dont need to feel grown up watching a disney cartoon). I just want to be entertained... And as such, i can look past the presentation and enjoy the GAME underneath.

    Take 99% of the "mature" games.. Take away the gore, and the story.. would the GAMEPLAY itself be fun? If you took mario galaxy (for example) and replaced everything (including mario himself) with coloured boxes and spheres - totally removing ALL presentation.. the actually GAME itself would STILL be fun.

    Not many modern games can say that. And that's subsequently why i consider mario to be one of the few "core" games remaining. I struggle to think of many other games which could say the same.. i'm open to suggestions though :-)
    Edited by 1 at 17/03/10 @ 21:56

  • scouserfuller9 #69 2 years ago

    @smelly - I totally agree with you games are for fun and how if Mario Galaxy was changed the gameplay would be no different. I'm still happy playing games from the 8bit and 16bit area. I think the big change did appear after them because all the 2D platform games were pretty much the same. Mario and Sonic both jumping on enemies, collecting coins/rings, saving their kingdoms, etc.. was almost exactly the same. Since the Playstation and N64 came out though gameplay has changed alot more in games as Mario 64 showed!!

    But not all games have ever worked like that. Lets look at Zelda for instance. Yes solving the puzzles and talking to all the people will still make the gameplay 90% the same but we need proper characters and landscape purely because of the story in it which adds that bit more fun into the game!!

    I've recently been playing Paper Mario on the GC. Barely any different to the N64 one but at the end of the day there's more things in games than gameplay now and violence is one of them which kids aren't meant to go through however is something alot of hardcore gamers seem to enjoy in games. Does Nintendo have much violence? The answer is simply no so they're basically asking the third parties to help them with it so it appeals to more people.

    Again I totally agree how you could change a game and it's gameplay will still be the same however it's not as simple as that anymore because there is far more seen in them now.
    Edited by 1 at 17/03/10 @ 22:30

  • smelly #70 2 years ago

    Off topic - I dont have problems with people negating me.. but if you're going to negate someone, at least counter-argue as to why you've done that.. which parts did you disagree with, etc? That way we can have a discussion.

    I dont mind people disagreeing with me.. i'd just rather they said why, maybe they could change my mind?

  • Lusterpurge #71 2 years ago

    It's amazing how many people don't understand the article. I partially blame EG for the headline.

    Reggie is saying that there are no games like Fallout 3, Bioshock, GTA, etc, etc for the Wii because Nintendo itself doesn't make them. Nintendo NEVER made games like that. Anyone who has owned a Nintendo console in the last 20 years knows that their games are fun, well made, but ultimately different than these Western games. You cannot compare Mario and Zelda to Mass Effect, Bioshock or even MGS. Metroid Prime has probably been the closest thing to these types of games because they used a Western developer.

    Reggie isn't saying that they are scared to make these "mature" games. He is saying that they need 3rd parties to develop them for the Wii, just like they do for the Xbox, PC and PS3. He tries to argue, and listen very closely people, that developing games for these Hi-Def consoles is not profitable in the end and if developers would make these games for the Wii, they would be able to spend less and sell more. That is what he is saying.

    I can't believe I had to clarify this article. Just take your time and read it before you comment.

  • malloc #72 2 years ago

    Lusterpurge you are spot on mate.

    Also Core games used to be platforming and adventure games, nowadays it's shooters and rpgs, which isn't N's thing. I have a Wii and am happy with it and am looking forward to 3 or so games in the next 6 months so am cool.

  • KDR_11k #73 2 years ago

    Sorry, the only form of "courting" these developers accept is a massive bribe, especially one that pays for the entire game's development. Then they'll port it to the PSP.

  • Softie2k #74 2 years ago

    WTF is a 'hardcore gamer' really : /

    Do they turn the difficulty level to hard or something? Film directors don't make films for 'hardcore' audiences. Mario nor Zelda are hardcore games, they can be appreciated and played by anyone. In fact I struggle to name any games that can't be played and appreciated by Jonny Public.

  • super_monty #75 2 years ago

    @ malexous

    "but they seem to have abandoned us."

    ""They haven't. ""

    Well if they haven't recommend me some A or AAA wii because I just can't find them.

    Yet at the moment there seems at least 5 games per month on the other consoles worth playing and loads I have missed.
    Yhey are coming out so fast it's impossible to play them .... I also have a stacks of games to finish which I have picked up cheap too.

    I don't even have a pc for gaming and there are some incredible titles for that and for the wii...?????

    I over looked buying for the wii a last year and bought the follow ps2 titles for my 60gb ps3, ICO/Shadow of the Colossus. And there is plenty on xbox arcade and psn which would get my money before any wii titles.


    i am not trolling ....I have said it before and will say it again I think the wii is one of the best kids consoles ever, but for me at 37 very little I am afraid.

    So list me some wii games which are out now which I might like....please

  • vizzini #76 2 years ago

    @Softie2k
    “can't be played and appreciated by Jonny Public. “ if you changed the sentence to “fully appreciated”; ie completed, then you could add many good games to that list (developers do intend for people to see the last level on every game).

    Even a game like Super Moneky ball on cube; with its' simple mechanics is actually a core-game or super-core-game, as even many core-gamers don't have the skills or endurance to fully appreciate it.
    Edited by 1 at 18/03/10 @ 08:41

  • super_monty #77 2 years ago

    I love the way I have had my comments minused by the nintendo defence core, yet no one really states why.

    Go on those defending nintendo, list the A and AAA titles for 'core' gamers like me !

    Bit thin on the ground aren't they???
    Edited by 2 at 18/03/10 @ 10:25

  • Caimbeul #78 2 years ago

    They can make them and make them well, they just done do it very often. Mario, Zelda, Metroid etc are all what i would consider Core.

  • sneetch #79 2 years ago

    @Smelly

    That's a whole load of good sense you're talking there. :)

  • super_monty #80 2 years ago

    @Smelly

    I have got to agree with you mate, I am being negated and all I would like is a of decent list of games for gamers released on the wii, but there is so few of them.

    I will pick up the new mario bros but not until it's really cheap.

  • SpaceMonkey77 #81 2 years ago

    @alcides

    You summed it up nicely, sir. I'll add my two pence anyway. Attention, this is not a Wii bash.

    While Nintendo have much money from Wii and DS sales, I feel that they've failed to invest that money wisely. Whereas MS and Sony have built their own very good inhouse teams by buying up several smaller devs studios, Nintendo did this with Rare, and while it was an early effort that bared good fruit (DKC,Goldeneye, Perfect Dark, Banjo, Blast Corps etc), Nintendo failed in selling Rare when they should have been expanding them (perhaps then, Rare wouldn't have taken so damn long to push out a game), and on top of that, not looking at other small developers to acquire. There are plenty out there, that either close or get into trouble and need saving, the latest being Cing (of Hotel Dusk, Another Code fame).

    I also think its their insane japanese business mentality, that ultimately holds them back in key areas. These cracks in their armour still exist, and MS and Sony can see them and are moving to exploit them. My bet is that within a year of Move and Natal being on sale, Wii sales will dip in a big way.

    Sony have done well. I remember very well, when Sony had next to no inhouse game studios like Nintendo, and were the butt of jokes for going up against the mighty Nintendo. Look at them now, they've built a commendable team of talent, through small developer acquisition, in both east and west. Their investing in Square Enix was a stroke of genius too, one which Nintendo also had the money to do, but not the vision. And Square Enix's acquisition of struggling Eidos, was again a smart move. Do we see Nintendo investing in such studios? Nope. You could count Monolith (a small japanese studio), but beyond that no.

    I'm glad I didn't buy a Wii this gen, as I can just sample a friends. Nintendo need a bloody restructure of their suits, and a rethink if they still want to be in this business. Building a console without consulting the devs, who you invite to create games on it, makes no sense, so when Wii techincally falls on its arse, and no one wants to realise their dream games on it, the fault is Nintendo's. Yes, I know someone will wave that 'graphics over gameplay' arguement. What shoots that to pieces, is that games are a combination of various ingredients (SD/HD graphics, A.I, sound, hard drive access, online play, achievements etc). The more Nintendo avoids the tecnical console fight, it sorely needs to fight, the more behind MS and Sony they'll end up. No point in being rich, fat, leading king of a games industry city, that is slowly sinking into the ocean of the competition. If Nintendo really want to be a true king, they need to stop treading water and deal with their real growing issues. When they do, I'll consider buying their next gen system.

    As for core games, the last such 'core' game from Nintendo that I enjoyed and was excited for were Star Fox in 92 and Blast Corps in 96/7'. Indeed, their games used to be more varied, but not anymore. No Pilotwings (last one was on N64, go figure), no F Zero, no Waverace, no Blast Corps (last one on N64 too) on Wii, all wasted oppurtunities that 'core' gamers would have invested in on Wii.

    So what for the future? I think once Nintendo have a system on par with 360 and PS3, or their successors, and the playing field is even, Nintendo should then look to acquire a few small developers, and give them the freedom to produce what they want to make, under the Nintendo name (or a sub label eg, like Vertigo ((a label for mature stuff)) does for DC Comics), not neccessarily what Nintendo of Japan wants to see. I think this mistake was made with Rare, with their Dinosaur Planet game (originally N64, moved to GC), which originally looked really cool, to begin with. But along came Nintendo to spoil the broth, and add Starfox water into that original game world. This must have broken many Rare hearts, as what became the woeful Star Fox Adventures boomed badly. Such a shame, but I think Nintendo learned to be more hands off with Retro Studios, for the Prime series. Its just so stupid, that once again, Nintendo ended such a good relationship once more, instead of investing more in Retro, despite the success of those games. No Nintendo confidence in themsleves to learn to make FPS games (after Goldeneye, Perfect Dark and Prime doing well), but not enough confidence in others either. Seems like a vicious circle, and thus very few core games.

    Lastly, Nintendo need to invest in, or work in conjunction with companies like Iomega (who make hard drives, etc), or Samsung while Korean (japanese/korean regional politics aside) make awesome product, from outside of their field, who can bring in expert knowledge of their field, to help make a sweeter console a reality. Both Sony and MS no doubt did this much, or somethng similar and reap the rewards.

    And worry less about home production console cost, Nintendo. Pokemon and hand helds have been your cash cows for years. They always sell, so invest some of that money well, instead of counting it all.

  • SpaceMonkey77 #82 2 years ago

    Without having to google, I'd class such games as with regards to Nintendo: games built for and aimed at seasoned, regular hobbyist gamers. For gamers who expect a more in depth experience, or something to drive them further (online play etc).

    Star Fox (not on Wii
    Blast Corps (not on Wii
    Wave Race (not on Wii
    Zelda
    Metroid
    Mario Kart

    Casual games, I'd class as those made and aimed at casual players, people who games once in a blue moon for a fix. As cheaper produced games, they may skip on many of the standard features of regular 'core' games.

    Brain Training
    Wii Sports
    Wii Sports Resort
    Mario and Sonic at the Olympics

    Its clear that there's more Nintendo focus on the latter than the former. IMO, had Nintendo invested more in small devs through purchase or investment, and had the Wii a better, up to date spec, that's pallatable to developers outside of Nintendo, the Wii game drought situation would have been very different. Unfortunately, Nintendo still have learned little from their previous gen debacles and are still repeating them.

    This is why 360 is the happy medium for devs, like a bear's pudding tasted by Goldilocks, it's just right. PS3 is too hot and expensive (while easily more tasty than Wii) and Wii is too old and cold, and only certain devs will bother with it.

  • malexous #83 2 years ago

    Disclaimer: This is not a complete list. No WiiWare games were used during the making of this list.

    Wii Chess
    Wii Fit
    Wii Fit Plus
    Wii Music
    Wii Play
    Wii Sports
    Wii Sports Resort
    Endless Ocean
    Endless Ocean 2: Adventures of the Deep
    Big Brain Academy: Wii Degree
    Mario & Sonic at the Olympic Games
    Mario & Sonic at the Olympic Winter Games

    Wario Land: The Shake Dimension
    Super Smash Bros. Brawl
    Super Paper Mario
    Super Mario Galaxy
    New Super Mario Bros. Wii
    Sin and Punishment 2
    Punch-Out!!
    Pokemon Battle Revolution
    Metroid Prime 3: Corruption
    Mario Kart Wii
    Mario Strikers Charged
    Fire Emblem: Radiant Dawn
    Excite Truck
    Battalion Wars 2

    Trauma Center: Secomd Opinion
    Trauma Center: New Blood
    Animal Crossing: City Folk
    Edited by 1 at 18/03/10 @ 21:07

  • super_monty #84 2 years ago

    That's a rather poor list hardly a AAA in sight, it is a shame I think the will could be capable of so much more.
    I will pick up New Super Mario Bros. Wii , and may be madworld and conduit at some point.
    But look at this for a list for gamers i have on the self to complete:

    FF13
    Motorstorm 2
    Dragon Age
    LBP
    Valkria Chronicles
    Bad company 2
    midnight club LA
    Farcry2
    Sacred 2


    And when I done with them I will pick up Hard Rain and God of War 3, so not sure when the wii will get a look in.

  • malexous #85 2 years ago

    I personally love all the games I own from that list, however, I can see why others may not.

    The list was more in reply to

    "Its clear that there's more Nintendo focus on the latter than the former." and "but they seem to have abandoned us."

    Edit: "hardly a AAA in sight" I see a good few, actually.
    Edited by 2 at 19/03/10 @ 00:13

  • TonyHarrison #86 2 years ago

    @SpaceMonkey77 The trouble with absolutely everything you say is that Nintendo already did everything you ask of them with the Gamecube. That really worked well for them, didn't it? So why would they listen to the likes of you when they got burned in the past from doing so?

  • SpaceMonkey77 #87 2 years ago

    So, by your logic Tony Harrison, you think that a company should try something once and give up.

    Do you apply the same logic to everything you do in your life, Tony? If not, Nintendo should be held to the same standard, IMO.

    Do Sony downgrade their consoles, after being in the console market for a while now? No. Even when Sony were leading, their consoles still kicked enough ass technically, enough to court developer and get the good to gamers. Do Apple downgrade their iPhones or improve them? The latter obviously. Companies should progress tech all the time, especially in the home market, (yes I know about GBA, DS etc, fine examples, that's why I said home market) but Nintendo are the only company I know that does the opposite, like its somehow below them to progress with the rest of us mere mortals. If something is good enough, people will pay the price for it. iPhone is a fine example of that, and why Apple have the whole mobile phone market besieged in a corner, with even mighty Nintendo quaking somewhere.

    To bow out of any race, after one try is lame, regardless whatever it is you do in life. This was never the case with the old Nintendo when they had plenty balls against Sega. Indeed things change, and now they are whimpering shadow of what they used to be. Maybe its a change, in their corporate suited people structure that's at fault, I don't know.

    You (and some) keep using the GC as an example, but easily and selectively forget previous Nintendo debacles with N64, which if you look across all their system since SNES, the same mistakes are repeated. Xbox is what stole GC's thunder, in a market that had only previously had two strong enough comapanies, battling for customers. Unless they had a crystal ball, there would have been no way for Nintendo, to know what MS were going to do, or MS becoming more of darling of developers and their many visions for their games, capturing that 2nd place spot Nintendo had. It was not technical horsepower that was GC's problem (and if you really believe that, you are very naive), but more so the new option Xbox brought to change the market, so for Nintendo to back step on it for Wii tech specs is baffling, beyond their cost excuses (similar to the same excuses made for N64 clinging to carts, when it was really about the money they get from licensing carts). Again, they fail to understand and comprehend the competition. (And hey, even I laughed at MS entering the market, but much damage was dealt Nintendo, and much humble pie I ate, yummy)

    There was a time where it was said, Nintendo could have bowed out of the home console market, if Wii failed. I doubt this would have been such a risky case, if Nintendo were more prepared to co-produce a console, as a last resort and share costs if need be, to get it to market. Panasonic Q (the awesome dvd playing GC) is a good example of this, and such a practice could have been repeated, to get Wii to the technical level of other consoles. The reason why this didn't happen is simple. Nintendo want all the money for themselves, and have no intention of sharing profits. Never have, even since back in the SNES days (SNES CD anyone), and the same backwards attitude previals at NoJ.

    The games I listed in my last post were Nintendo produced games, I tried to stick to that in response to the post about Nintendo's games, nothing else.

    @Malexous: Cheers for adding those to the list, but the reason I didn't add many of them is because 1: they aren't made by Nintendo or 2: they are games updated for Wii from GC. I can't count these in, as they are still time wasted that could have been put on the new IP 'core' games, that Nintendo lack and now complain about. I know many Wii owners feel the need to defend Wii, with these games lists (I am in no way saying all games on Wii are crap), but they still are like a few strand of hair, on a bald mans head, trying to hide the denial, that he's not bald and looks cool. Everyone is laughing at that man, no matter how rich he might be.

    As Nintendo scatch their heads for like, the third home generation with a huge game drought, you'd think they understand now, that good console tech specs matter more than they might think. Just how many more years, will it take Nintendo to learn this valuable lesson, that they are actually wrong on that one, and the majority of the industry, while hailing the Wii unique presence, disagrees with them.

    I know in my heart that Nintendo can do better, because I see it everytime I play their games, but they need the will to do it. Games and console should get the same high standard treatment and attention. When this equalibrium is in place (laced with better online options etc), Nintendo will stand to succeed on all home market fronts, whether buyers are casual or core customers.

  • TonyHarrison #88 2 years ago

    Bow out after one try? What are you blabbering on about? The Wii is the first console that Nintendo did not go for the technical powerhouse, but I merely mentioned the GC exclusively as it's the most recent. The NES, SNES, N64 and GC were all as powerful as they could be at the time of release, and were more powerful than the competition (wait, you're not one of those who believe the PS2 was more powerful, are you? That'd be funny). This is apparently everything the likes of you want, and yet the trend from NES > GC is a massive downwards one in terms of success. This cannot be denied and it's because they listened to people like you that it happened.

    They released technical powerhouse after technical powerhouse, they threw money at third parties (Capcom's 7 exclusive games spring to mind, only two were ever released, and they both ended up being ported), and it didn't work.

    Furthermore, they haven't 'downgraded' anything, as that would mean the Wii is less powerful than the GC, when it's comfortably more powerful than it. What has happened is progression at a slower rate, and you can't say it hasn't worked.

    Well, you can, but as I've demonstrated, you're to blame for the downward trend that caused them to make that very decision...

    You do make some fair points, but you're quite simply revising history in the process to suit your own agenda.
    Edited by 1 at 19/03/10 @ 16:46

  • malexous #89 2 years ago

    "1: they aren't made by Nintendo"

    Not particularly important but Mario and Sonic is made by Sega.
    Edited by 1 at 19/03/10 @ 16:52

  • SpaceMonkey77 #90 2 years ago

    Okay, my mistake with Mario and Sonic there (never said I was perfect), fair enough, but my main points of that last post still stands.

    Its the turn of you peoples to counterpoint answer that post, via agreement or disagreement. State your reasons etc.

  • malexous #91 2 years ago

    I already disagreed with you through that list.

    There are many 'core' games I left out including upcoming games, WiiWare games and games not released in all regions.

    Edit: To me, as long as it is Nintendo published it counts.
    Edited by 1 at 19/03/10 @ 19:18

  • Phishfood #92 2 years ago

    I can't really blame Nintendo for not focusing on the core gamers when they are making so much money from the casual gamers.