RedOctane admits to Guitar Hero II patch problem

By Tom Bramwell Published 16 April, 2007

Bricking Xbox 360s?

Guitar Hero II publisher RedOctane has admitted that some users are experiencing problems with a patch released for the Xbox 360 version over the weekend.

The update, released on Saturday, was supposed to help users whose copies of the game were refusing to acknowledge input from the Xplorer controller's whammy bar.

However forum threads quickly sprang up on Xbox.com and the official Guitar Hero website complaining that the patch was followed immediately by system freezes and, in some cases, the dreaded ring of death - the only answer to which is returning the console to Microsoft.

For gamers whose consoles are now out of warranty, that could mean a significant charge from Microsoft in order to get it fixed.

RedOctane initially declined to comment, but this afternoon a spokesperson told Eurogamer: "We're aware of the problem and we're looking into it."

Given how quickly the last patch was released, it's probably safe to expect something in the near future. What will be interesting though is how the publisher intends to deal with customers who claim their consoles have been "bricked" by the update.

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About Tom Bramwell

Tom is Operations director of Eurogamer Network and Editor-at-Large of Eurogamer.net. He joined the company in February 2000.

Read more articles from Tom by visiting the Tom Bramwell archive page.

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Comments (64) Latest comment 5 years ago

Comments threads automatically close after 30 days, but please feel free to continue chatting on the forum!

  • asphaltcowboy #1 5 years ago

    Yeah, i knew it was a good idea to put off downloading the update!

  • SeesThroughAll #2 5 years ago

    Patch the patch ASAP then.

  • lambtron #3 5 years ago

    Oh man. A patch that bricks people consoles! Complete fuck-up ahoy!

  • asphaltcowboy #4 5 years ago

    It amplifies the power of ROCK, rendering all the soldering even more useless than normal! :D

  • DrDamn #5 5 years ago

    If it is software doing this and presumably the patch had to go through a MS certification process, then the fault has to lie with MS themselves.

  • bonker #6 5 years ago

    Be interesting to see whether they start finger-pointing here and how they handle it.

    Anything like a "we will fix your GH2-caused borked 360 for free" type stuff is going to see a large increase in the sales of GH2!

  • Wendelius #7 5 years ago

    Being aware of the problem and looking into it doesn't quite mean they think it is bricking consoles though. I think it more likely they are trying to prove the 2 are unrelated.

    I believe those 360's were on their way out anyway. How a GHII patch could kill the hardware is better suited to internet scaremongering than actual software development. Dashboard updates are an entirely different and more delicate matter though. Those I treat with caution.

  • bonker #8 5 years ago

    "If it is software doing this and presumably the patch had to go through a MS certification process, then the fault has to lie with MS themselves. "

    That's certainly what I'd be saying if I was them!

    True though.

  • kangarootoo #9 5 years ago

    "and, in some cases, the dreaded ring of death - the only answer to which is returning the console to Microsoft."

    Interesting. I stand corrected after previously supposing in a different thread that software couldn't cause a RoD. Shows how much I know.

  • Eighthours #10 5 years ago

    While it hasn't bricked my console permanently (yet), immediately after installing the update my 360 froze 3 times in a row, having never frozen before.

    Guilty as charged.
    Edited by 1 at 16/04/07 @ 14:04

  • DUFFKING #11 5 years ago

    There's only a very small percentage who have this problem, it's just that those who do shout REALLY LOUDLY so it seems EVERYONE ON THE PLANET HAS THE PROBLEM when really the vast majority of people's consoles are fine.

    /About 40 people on friends list with GHII

    Number of broken 360s: 0

    I don't see how in most places the software gradually breaks the console. If it's going to be bricked it's going to happen straight away, otherwise we'd have to wait an hour after the Gears patch to play annex.
    Edited by 1 at 16/04/07 @ 14:06

  • MrChuckles #12 5 years ago

    I was trying to get the patch over the weekend, but it continually failed to patch, so i had to play in offline mode when playing Guitar Hero. Then again, i only just had my 360 replaced, so perhaps MS put in a 'Don't download fecked up updates' patch on my new xbox :-)

  • penhalion #13 5 years ago

    Software can't vause a hardware failure however, it can cause the operating system to think there has been a hardware failure!

    The patch deals with the user controls so if the patch wrongly reports that the controls are faulty then the 360 will most likely think the system is fracked as the wireless isn't responding correctly!

  • bauhaus #14 5 years ago

    Jesus H Christ

  • Donny #15 5 years ago

    They'll probably put out a beta patch like Bethesda did for the Oblivion SI problem.

  • Carlo #16 5 years ago

    /applauds

    Or rather

    /golfclaps
    Edited by 1 at 16/04/07 @ 14:12

  • rudedudejude #17 5 years ago

    Sony Conspiracy!

    Make a patch that bricks 360's, out of warranty? Tough luck :p

  • Sid-Nice #18 5 years ago

    This is what's actually bricking the Xbox 360.

  • IAmBatman #19 5 years ago

    > my 360 froze 3 times in a row

    Freezing a console is not the same as bricking it.

  • Der_tolle_Emil #20 5 years ago

    I can artificially bring my 360 to show the Ring of Death. I power it off and immediatly turn it on again. It will do nothing and after about 2 minutes I get the Ring of Death and a System Error 57 (I think 57). If I wait about 20 seconds before turning it on right again I don't have this problem. I also never had it freeze or crash on me. But it definetly doesn't like turning off and on again.

    I still doubt the game destroys hardware. No idea what is causing the Ring of Death though but I wonder if booting without the HD works?

  • peteb #21 5 years ago

    Its getting ridiculous now! There must be a case against being charged for fixing your 360 if it gets bricked through a software update? I'll be recording on camera everytime i install an update from now on...

    maybe

  • Turrican #22 5 years ago

    I can officially confirm my Xbox 360 has become a brick the morning of that patch.

    I was playing Guitar Hero fine the night before and then from that morning it crashed and now the console won't start with an E71 hardware error. My consoles going back to Microsoft tomorrow, although interestingly they seem to have extended my warranty from the point I called them for 1 year.

  • McBradders #23 5 years ago

    What about the DLC costs?

    What about shipping fucked guitars to begin with?

    Quality work, activision.

  • FatsoJetson #24 5 years ago

    I got a brand new 360 Thursday after my old one kept freezing and crashing. Saturday morning I played Guitar Hero for about two hours after the download and it worked fine. I quit out of GH to play GRAW 2 and I got the Ring of Death. After that I booted it up again and all worked fine. Weird!

  • The-Bodybuilder #25 5 years ago

    I can't speak for this patch, but when I downloaded the gears patch, my 360 crashed 3 times in a row, followed by the death ring.

  • #26 5 years ago

    Harsh MM. If you turn out to be wrong I expect much eating of humble pie :)
    Edited by 1 at 16/04/07 @ 14:56

  • crozon #27 5 years ago

    Man looks like consoles are becoming more troublesome than PCs. Atleast if you patch a game on a PC it may screw up the game but never the whole PC.

    out of curiosity does the xbox360 freeze a lot under general use?

  • SuperBas #28 5 years ago

    Downloaded it, everything's still going smoothly.

  • Turrican #29 5 years ago

    re: "turn in your brains"

    I'm not suggesting its directly responsible, but its a funny coincidence don't you think? I have 3 other theories about why my Xbox has bricked the morning of that patch:

    1 - Guitar Hero 2 is not just a piece of software, its also the Xplorer Guitar. This could be the problem.

    2 - I was using the xbox a lot the night before to play GH2, it could be that, in conjunction with the change in the weather in the UK, has caused a lot of fragile Xbox's to break - don't mock, as heat/cold variations cause big trouble for ropey electronics.

    3 - Its just possible that Xboxs are breaking at a certain frequency regardless of the game, and the unlucky few (like me) for this week have seen theirs go and have put these 2 things together when looking for the cause.

  • gizmo #30 5 years ago

    I have a Dec 05 360, and It's probably crashed around 5 times total under heavy use. 3 of those in Oblivion, in which I have a 50 hour save file.

  • brooza #31 5 years ago

    just one of the reasons I'm (attempting to) return my game. It's partly to do with the dodgy whammy bar, partly because of the price, but now mostly out of sheer frustation with play.com

  • Moz #32 5 years ago

    sadly ManicMinerUK it is you who needs to turn in your brain. There many ways when your fiddling about with USB controls (which is what they must have been doing to make "broken" wammy bars work) then you can borks the system.

    And if they managed to do anything that accidently changed the firmware in any way this would either message up power management or heat monitors, which will lead to the hardware breaking

    Or they may have cause a change that makes it think it's broken, however once firmware is broken it normally wont take updates. Back at MS tech support they probably have a rig that can re-write the firmware to ROM, but that's not something you can do at home.

    This coincodently is exactly how some virus were written then actually fryed your PC mother board. Though alot of motherboard now have a safety feature where by it keeps a copy of the orignal copy of firmware that it shipped with and you can then force a firmware re-write yourself

  • brooza #33 5 years ago

    I have a March 06 360, and it's crashed half a dozen times, all whilst playing Oblivion...

  • DUFFKING #34 5 years ago

    Moz, surely that would break everyone's 360s that update then?

  • Moz #35 5 years ago

    Duffking - you'd have thought so! Never seems that simple. though most of the cases I list were just proving MM wrong!

    How ever if this has managed to change power management just slightly, then it could be enough to push systems that were on the wayout over the edge.

  • rmg #36 5 years ago

    "right, all of you who think software updates can permanently damage hardware, turn in your brains. You're clearly not using them and there's plenty of poor children in the world who would, if they had the chance. "


    I assume that you are not including dash updates in the above statement which:

    A - Did brick 360s when the latest dash was installed without having the previous dash update installed.

    B - Blew efuses to prevent dash downgrades which is a hardware change.

    Turn in your brain mate!
    Edited by 1 at 16/04/07 @ 15:17

  • Dukkha #37 5 years ago

    I got a replacement 360 about 4 weeks after release and it's been running flawless until yesterday evening while playing gh 2 (patched). No ring of death but first the picture went fuzzy and then no picture at all. Changed game and had no problems. I am a bit worried know, don't think I will play guitar hero until I know more.

  • rock27gr #38 5 years ago

    @ MM

    Perhaps you should also turn in you brain?

    No-one claimed the patch causes hardware damage; but if it causes the OS to get unstable and even cause a Ring Of Death response, thus rendering the hardware unusable, then does it matter that the actual hardware is not damaged?

    The result is the same; Xbox 360 is non-functional, and needs to be returned for service, even if this service is just a formating/reinstalation of the OS.

  • Turrican #39 5 years ago

    Well my XPlorer controller was plugged in when I powered it up, that could be a catalyst in conjunction with the patch.

  • gizmo #40 5 years ago

    He's not replying, he's turned in his brain.

  • evilidler #41 5 years ago

    GH2 is new and pretty popular. If it's your console's time to go, you're likely to be
    playing that when it expires.

    A game patch won't have direct hardware access. Games are just DirectX-based software
    like on Windows. If it turns out something in a game actually could brick your 360,
    and it is reproducible, MS will have to release an emergency update ASAFP :)

    I think it's just the usual forum hysteria. 14 months? Wow, most Xboxes don't live that long.

  • belziah #42 5 years ago

    ban this sick patch

  • hotblack #43 5 years ago

    Lets hope they don't rush out a patch to patch the rushed out patch ;)

    As others have said, them stating they are aware of problems could mean all sorts, but this does raise a lot of questions over how companies approach patching post-release.

    http://ga menian.blogspot.com/2007/04/con...

  • lennon #44 5 years ago

    I have a launch day 360 that has on occasion frozen. Usually whilst playing R6:V but once or twice in Oblivion.

    That said so far (touches wood) no other problems. GH2 patch installed on Saturday and all still working ok.

  • Turrican #45 5 years ago

    @ MM - mine froze at exactly the point it tried to download and apply the GH2 patch on Sunday morning. Following that the Red light came on for the first time ever, and it has not worked since.

    But like I also said above, it could also be coincidence that people like me were playing it for a few hours over a hot weekend. In fact I would be more annoyed if thats whats caused it, as British springtime should not be extreme enough to cause anything to break!

  • PeterM #46 5 years ago

    //#define MAX_VOLUME 11
    #define MAX_VOLUME 10

    Fixed.

  • cyber_nicco #47 5 years ago

    I think the problem some people (MM maybe) are having is the assumption that RROD=hardware problem.

    I will give you an interesting example. Fairly recently my XP laptop shutdown unexpectedly and tried to reboot. During the process of rebooting, it would shutdown and restart again over and over. Definitely seemed like a hardware problem. However, I was able to boot to the recovery console, etc. After some research I found that it was related to a VERY obscure bug in my wireless adapter driver that only surfaces after accessing a wireless network with some very particular protocol settings. It was true, this all started when I had accessed a public network I hadn't accessed before (but continued long after I was away from this network - most notably at home where I had never had a problem before). Anyway, a driver update fixed the problem.

    Flashing red lights are just an indicator from the system of what it thinks is a problem - it is SOFTWARE that is lighting those rings!

  • Rush2112 #48 5 years ago

    Super, smashing, great. I finally managed to track down and buy GH2 this afternoon.
    To patch, or not to patch? That is the question, my hard rockin' amigos!

  • JediMasterMalik #49 5 years ago

    It's a conspiracy to take the DLC price out of the spotlight!

    My crazy view anyway.

  • Overlush #50 5 years ago

    Another day, another wave of bad news about the PS3

  • Der_tolle_Emil #51 5 years ago

    cyber_nicco: Hardware drivers and software patches have nothing in common. Your XP rebooting thingy is not at all comparable to a non-booting console. And just sounding like a dick, if I know something, it's PCs.

    You are right though that the 360's ring of death does not necessarily mean that the hardware is broken.

    I'm on ManicMinerUK's side. He seems to understand the inner workings of consoles/PCs and how software interacts with hardware.

    The patch definetly did not 'fix' USB voltage or anything like that. The whammy bar is an analogue device and the broken ones responded like they were pressed too weak because of dodgy assembly. All they did was make the game respond to softer presses too - problem fixed.

    I still think it's a coincidence and that the hardware is probably not broken at all. It's very likely a resulting software problem which is definetly more MS fault than RedOctane since right at boot up the game is not even loaded yet.

    Still, little consolation for owners of now dead 360s. Everyone else being afraid of updating though is a bit naive. Don't believe Internet hype especially if it's purely bad news. Those are hardly ever true.

    I still wonder about the next official response from MS and/or RedOctane.

  • Moz #52 5 years ago

    " Another day, another wave of bad news about the PS3 " - LOL overlush I like your style.

    As for the link with the patch and bricked consoles, it is possible that the patch has broken system but that doesn't mean it is responsible.

    Would be good to MS tech supports logs to see if there was an increase in breakages.

    Personally I'd rather wait a couple of days for an official responce before installing the patch, not like I don't have plenty of other games.

    Motorstorm included ;o) Enchanted arms (360) too

  • Les #53 5 years ago

    "I do feel for you guys having grief though and yellowtruck I don't really see how peoples kit dieing on them is funny...Unless you're a bit of a twat that is.."

    Agree. Unfortunately, a lot of people are a bit silly, gloating over the delay of console launches, (perceived?) poor quality of software titles that aren't released on the format of the fanboy affiliation, terrible ports, loss of exclusivity, stupid remarks from PR people, etc., etc....
    Edited by 1 at 16/04/07 @ 21:09

  • JediMasterMalik #54 5 years ago

    We're talking about yellowtruck here, what are you expecting? Honours level discussions? :D

  • Wendelius #55 5 years ago

    Patched mine. Still plays just fine, as expected.

    Whammy bar sensitivity has been increased.

    Wendelius

  • cyber_nicco #56 5 years ago

    "cyber_nicco: Hardware drivers and software patches have nothing in common. Your XP rebooting thingy is not at all comparable to a non-booting console. And just sounding like a dick, if I know something, it's PCs. "

    You're right, you do sound a bit like a dick.

    First of all, I thought this software patch was basically a new driver for the guitar controller - a piece of hardware. So that would seem to be a hardware driver anyway. So your assertion that hardware drivers and software patches have nothing in common is rather stupid. Actually, it's stupid regardless of the point I just made, because a software patch is just an update to an existing piece of software to fix a bug/vulnerability/etc. It could be for a hardware driver, an application, or part of the operating system. A blanket statement such as yours indicates that perhaps you are not as fucking amazing as you think you are.

    Or perhaps you just didn't like the way I sounded and sort of jumped at what you thought I was trying to say.

  • -TKF- #57 5 years ago

    QUALITY HARDWARE!

  • Der_tolle_Emil #58 5 years ago

    I did not want to get at you or anything. All I meant was that basically a piece of software and a hardware driver are two different things. A hardware driver on XP for example runs at ring 0 and thus can do a lot more than software can. That can cause problems because of rights it has that normal software simply does not. Also comparing the fact that drivers rely on interrupt requests makes them different than software. I'm sure you have seen on of those IRQL_NOT_LESS_OR_EQUAL bluescreens which simply cannot be caused by software.

    In short: You can easily kill an OS installation with a driver yet you will have your difficulties achieving the same thing just by installing a game or let a lone a patch for a game.

    I really don't want to start a war, I don't mean to post "I'm better than you" but rather "I think you are wrong because". I really don't want to offend.

  • Wendelius #59 5 years ago

    Played for about 5 hours after patching without a single freeze. Seriously, because a rumour sounds plausible doesn't make it so.

    Wendelius

  • bonker #60 5 years ago

    "I have a launch day 360 that has on occasion frozen. Usually whilst playing R6:V but once or twice in Oblivion.

    That said so far (touches wood) no other problems. GH2 patch installed on Saturday and all still working ok. "

    +1

    Last freeze was in early months of ownership, not had anything since then in anything ...

    95055 GH2 going just fine ........

  • bonker #61 5 years ago

    "We're talking about yellowtruck here, what are you expecting? Honours level discussions? :D "

    You can talk! :p

  • Oceadge #62 5 years ago

    I was planning on buying GHII for the weekend but then wondered about it after reading this news yesterday... Last night I downloaded the two Lexus cars for Test Drive Unlimited. Then after starting the game my 360 crashed for the first time in about a year. I restarted it and all was fine until tonight when I loaded up TDU again and it crashed in the same place. This time when I restarted it I saw the dreaded red lights and my 360 freezes on the opening Xbox logo. I haven't been able to get it to work again. I got it at the Australian launch at the end of March last year so I've had it for just over a year. :-(

    I can't imagine it could have anything to do with the TDU update but it does seem like a coincidence that a lot of people get the Ring Of Death after some kind of update...

  • Mr_Whacker #63 5 years ago

    I think Turrican has mentioned the Xplorer was plugged in when the patch was applied, yes? On Windows you aren't really supposed to install USB drivers before the device is attached. Or it whinges. So who has installed the patch with or without the guitar plugged in?

    BTW I'm too scared to buy it now.
    Edited by 2 at 17/04/07 @ 21:16

  • Wendelius #64 5 years ago

    Mine was patched with the Xplorer plugged in (obviously as I was starting the game to play). Sorry some guys had their 360 on its way out anyway and it chose a moment when they were busy using it to die (seems obvious), but patching the game will not kill your 360. *shrug*

  • rippedcap #65 5 years ago

    Quote:

    Mine was patched with the Xplorer plugged in (obviously as I was starting the game to play). Sorry some guys had their 360 on its way out anyway and it chose a moment when they were busy using it to die (seems obvious), but patching the game will not kill your 360. *shrug*


    but.... - it killed mine. Purchased 27 Oct 06, died 20 Apr 07. Patched last weekend, it crashed on me. Fired up GH2 tonight after being away with work all week, crash to black screen and 3 red lights on restart......

    It makes no sense - but my 360 is dead now.