Rare wanted avatars for Xbox 360 launch

By Robert Purchese Published 26 November, 2008

To soften "hardcore and spiky" image.

Rare has said the Xbox 360 avatars were a feature originally intended to launch long ago, to help spread the appeal of the console. But presumably gardening bears got in the way.

"The concept of avatars is something that we came up with about four years ago now," Mark Betteridge, studio boss, told GamesIndustry.biz.

"We were thinking about how hardcore and spiky the previous Xbox was, and everybody was of a view that the new one was going to be more smooth and friendly. Everybody was in agreement that was the right thing.

"So we pitched avatars as something out of the box with an interface where you build a character that looks like yourself, or whoever you want it to look like, and can play mini-games and things like that - but it represents you on the Live system, that's all it was based around," he said.

Rare sees endless scope for the customisable characters now they're out, and Betteridge reckons releasing them was just the beginning for the developer, which is keen to swat away third-party interest and "own" the concept of avatars itself.

"There's a lot of interest in avatars by third parties, as you can imagine," explained Betteridge.

"As standalone avatar products, we want to own that space, because we think it's a huge, huge space going forward - it appeals across genres, across age ranges, demographics, and there's an enormous opportunity there."

He added: "I'm not going to name products, because I'm sure you can imagine our time frames, but we see this as the start of avatars, not that it's now done and dusted and therefore we're finished with it. It's more the foot in the door."

Another area Betteridge sees avatars appealing in is Japan, where sales of Xbox 360 have begun picking up of late - largely thanks to a chunky price cut.

"They love the creative community aspect in Japan, rather than the destructive 'I'm gonna kill everybody and take over the world'. We were with Nintendo for seven or eight years before, so we've got a lot of experience with that market," he said.

"It's a style that can cross boundaries - it's a difficult thing to do, to have a hit in three territories at the same time. Maybe our background with Nintendo, in that we've done that before - maybe avatars will be the first thing that will be popular everywhere?

"So I'd expect the avatars to be popular there, and I think the Xbox 360 - the European sales are very strong, and certainly Japanese sales have come out of a tunnel and can see some light. And North America's always been strong," added Betteridge.

Pop your eyes on GamesIndustry.biz tomorrow for the full interview with Mark Betteridge. Until then, here's part one to absorb.

Picture of Robert.

About Robert Purchese

Bertie is Eurogamer's Senior Staff Writer. When he's not hunting down news stories he's often found playing with his kids or gabbling about fantasy games and strange online worlds.

Read more articles from Robert by visiting the Robert Purchese archive page.

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Comments (60) Latest comment 3 years ago

Comments threads automatically close after 30 days, but please feel free to continue chatting on the forum!

  • Derblington #1 3 years ago

    That's great, but they're crap.

    Mii's have more character and more facial options, which is arguably the point of them in the first place. The 360 Avatars don't have anywhere near enough options and lack any kind of charm.
    Edited by 1 at 26/11/08 @ 17:19

  • bad09 #2 3 years ago

    The Avatars suck, i wish they would crawl off my dash and die - in a bloody horrible way :)

    / Dreams of the Dead Space Ripper and a room of Avatars......

  • Toadie48 #3 3 years ago

    Really Rare? You swear on your life that you came up with avatars at the launch period of the Xbox 360?

    (Insincire voice) I believe you! ;)
    Edited by 1 at 26/11/08 @ 17:03

  • illusiondance #4 3 years ago

    well looking at Rares track-record with atrocious character design i cant really blame MS for telling them to Jog on.

  • chris_ace #5 3 years ago

    Post deleted at 11:55:13 13-12-2011

  • mcbi4kh2 #6 3 years ago

    The concept of avatars is something that we came up with about four years ago now

    Does that mean that these avatars have been in development longer than Home?
    At least they had the good sense to keep quiet about it.

  • consignia #7 3 years ago

    Haven't 360 sales stagnated in Japan recently? They did enjoy a surge, but it has gone away again, although I haven't looked that closely at the sales figures.

  • peteb #8 3 years ago

    @chris_ace

    you are a machine! theres just no let up! im impressed!

  • Wash #9 3 years ago

    Thankgod for the ignore button, alot of faboy hatred going on in this thread.

    Anyway, as for the miis comparison derbs i kinda agree... but i'd wager that theres alot that the can built into the avatar system with regards to including in games/arcade titles. Also utilising it more for the community aspect of the 360 dash. I also think M$ will probably move faster to build on this then nintendo are with the mii's.

    @Mogs.

    I think they'll be ok, they offer M$ a different outlet to most of its 1st party studios. Also Viva Pinata was very good indeed, so for me personally it is not a total loss.

    @Consignia

    Perhaps, but the sales were never brilliant so a small blip in slow sales making them slightly slower, also considering the low sale price i doubt it was ever a boon the internet made it out to be.

  • schnide #10 3 years ago

    Now I've read this article I clearly understand, given the time frames involved, that Rare completely ripped off the Mii designs from Nintendo so Microsoft could appeal to the family audience they've garnered.

    Sorry, I mean Rare didn't completely rip off..

    That's what the article was meant to do, right? I do get so confused.

  • moggsy #11 3 years ago

    Yahoo instant messaging used avatars a long time before Ninty had Mii's. They've been around in various forms for years.

    Edit: Here's mine that I created many years ago:

    Avatar
    Edited by 3 at 26/11/08 @ 17:32

  • dog2_99 #12 3 years ago

    I actually like the Xbox 360 Avatars....i feel they have more character than the Miis...

    some of my friends Avatars on Xbox are uncanny in that they are fairly realistic representation of the creator…in a cartoon way!

    anyone know how to change the background my avatar stands infront off on the friends slide?

  • OfficialBlue #13 3 years ago

    Oh M$.... You think people actually believe your bull shit!

  • Les #14 3 years ago

    If they want to reach a broad audience, dropping the xbox moniker is the only way to go. With NXE from the start the 360 wouldn't have sold a single unit more me thinks. Just like PS3 won't gain much (if anything) by Home.

  • Vermillion3000 #15 3 years ago

    I like my Avatar on the 360.
    He's got a red hat and black sunglasses.

  • ronuds #16 3 years ago

    They couldn't have thought of them before there were Mii's or Home were announced, right? Because Mii's were the first avatars ever???

    Some of you are pretty sad.

    And I've used both avatars and Mii's and you seem to be able to get an avatar to look much more like yourself, or a real person in general, than the Mii's. Mii's aren't bad, but they don't look like much more than a bowling ball on top of a stick.

  • ronuds #17 3 years ago

    @ Mogsy

    "Yahoo instant messaging used avatars a long time before Ninty had Mii's. They've been around in various forms for years."

    Don't bother - people don't listen to reason here! They leave their little hateful comments and run away before they realize what jackasses they sound like.

  • Skurmedel #18 3 years ago

    Soon to open: Adidas avatar-parts store.

    I don't feel the avatars as a complete rip-off, think they are nice to have albeit totally meaningless. However, it's clear that whoever designed the interface for NXE hade a look at the Wii. For example, the calming lounge music is there, the piano-like sounds and the bright milky backgrounds.
    Edited by 1 at 26/11/08 @ 18:23

  • cyber_nicco #19 3 years ago

    I don't mind the avatars, what's the big deal? I just made one that looked like me (eye-candy for the ladies) and was done with it. I suppose I could have made one look all counter-culture if I really wanted to protest in some way.

    This, people, is not something to get care too much about...

  • Beano #20 3 years ago

    "The concept of avatars is something that we came up with about four years ago now..."


    lol lol lol... oh my... that's pretty damn funny!

  • Les #21 3 years ago

    "like dreamcast it just went past 25 million in 3 years.. oh right."

    Like dreamcast it didn't (sell 25m in three years that is), nor will it ever. It will very likely reach 25m+ though (only Armageddon within the next 6 months can prevent that), unlike dreamcast.

  • JackB #22 3 years ago

    Internet posters just love to bitch about anything and make it sound like it's so bad they need to kill themselves.
    The Avatars take all of 2 seconds to create if you just want a standard one, so why is it killing anyone? Fanboys...

    Personally, I love the new Friends row. I have 99 friends and when I look at my friends list with NXE I can see all the avatars in the party instantly. It's really interesting as I typically have about 15-30 friends online in the evenings and many are in parties with up to 8 avatars. It's really interesting. It makes you want to jump into the party. It's also becoming easy to recognized members in a party, because I know what their avatar looks like.

    In the old dash you just had a list of friends with text (not a nice looking box cover) telling you what game they were in. If you had five friends in a party, you'd have to look at what each one was doing and make and assumption they might be gaming together. Now it's so much quicker and simpler.

    Lastly, my scrolling through the old friends list wasn't any quicker or if so not much. I can use the RB / LB buttons to quickly move through Friends/Avatar Row and I really enjoy lookiing at my friends designs.

    They need more clothes, flexibility, but what's the big deal. This isn't life or death either way.

  • Xerx3s #23 3 years ago

    "rare have been rubbish since they left nintendo, and camp avatars wont make microsoft king. 360's exclusive lineup for 2009 is lookin pretty poor compared to ps3 right now. "

    Dear god, you truly are a complete muppet aren't you?

  • Xerx3s #24 3 years ago

    "Like dreamcast it didn't (sell 25m in three years that is), nor will it ever. It will very likely reach 25m+ though (only Armageddon within the next 6 months can prevent that), unlike dreamcast."

    It officially outsold the total of the xbox number (25 million) a while back. But don't let reality stop you from from cramming out more comedy gold. Anyone who points out the utter bull in your posts will just go on ignore eh?

  • StealthAcolyte #25 3 years ago

    @chris_ace

    rare have been rubbish since they left nintendo, and camp avatars wont make microsoft king. 360's exclusive lineup for 2009 is lookin pretty poor compared to ps3 right now.

    RIP RARE and XBOX360

    +1

    Xbox 360 is dead, no good games, only fairly decent games are Halo 2.5 and Gears Of War 1.5. Thats in my opinion. It's dead. Just every year we will have to wait for the next Halo and Gears Of War and its stupid. They just milk Halo and Gears Of War for everything they have.

    Halo 1,2,"3" and "3.5". Halo wars, Halo merchandise and toys and stuff. Halo drink. Halo helmet, Halo Xbox 360. Won't be surprised with Halo trading cards etc. So sad... Get new developers.

  • makeamazing #26 3 years ago

    I dont see how the Avatars "we were first" keeps getting to be news... come on EG you can do better than that, and if your interviewing Rare and they say that again, tell them to be quiet!

  • RedSparrows #27 3 years ago

    christ, an unusually large fanboy explosion today. Fetch me my shotgun, these rabid zombie like fucktards need'a cullin'

  • Redeye #28 3 years ago

    Rare = a bit crap, really; to say MS shelled out shedloads for a lemon would be an understatement.

    Fanboys = getting even more inane and retarded by the day.

    Me = off for a large JD on the rocks.

    EDIT: Bloody recalcitrant fingers and their inability to push the right keys.
    Edited by 1 at 26/11/08 @ 20:09

  • phoenixology #29 3 years ago

    I just wish the avatars on your friends list didn't take up so much space.

    What's the big deal with the buildings behind each avatar?

  • DAN.E.B #30 3 years ago

    its good to see the SDF still talking the same shit day in day out!

  • bonker #31 3 years ago

    "360's exclusive lineup for 2009 is lookin pretty poor compared to ps3 right now. "

    Seriously, having just gone through "The Year Of The PS3" (that clearly wasn't!) I really wouldn't be calling the 360 out on its s/w lineup ever again ...

  • onyxbox #32 3 years ago

    Dear Rare,

    Can I have an option to turn them off.

    Best Regards,

    gareth

  • captainrentboy #33 3 years ago

    I see that newbie StealthAcolyte has some interesting views... :/
    What's the point in joining a message board and instantly being a right cunt? If you're going to be a cunt, be more stealthy about it, like me:) Do it gradually over 1000 posts.
    As for the avatars, maybe Rare thought about them yonks ago, maybe they didn't. Who gives a flying fuck? Believe it or not Nintendo didn't actually invent the things.
    I don't mind them myself, they look and are animated far better than the Miis, they just need some more clothing and the option to actually move facial features up and around. Because as it is it would appear10 of my friends look pretty much identical to me, and that's just not true, I'm far better looking than all of them!

  • Dogs-in-Hats #34 3 years ago

    I can smell something

  • stevetuck #35 3 years ago

    i wish there were ways of turning off these rubbish avatars :/

  • Les #36 3 years ago

    "Seriously, having just gone through "The Year Of The PS3" (that clearly wasn't!) I really wouldn't be calling the 360 out on its s/w lineup ever again ..."

    Well, the gaming press has to resort to something to keep the console wars alive (so completely disregarding that what they're so obsessed about is a struggle for distant second place). Till 2010 or something we'll only see years of the Wii. And you got to hand it to PS3, it took a serious price cut for the 360 to still be in competition for second place in 2008 at this point...

  • onyxbox #37 3 years ago

    And you got to hand it to PS3, it took a serious price cut for the 360 to still be in competition for second place in 2008 at this point...

    this is true.

  • Kovacs77 #38 3 years ago

    Isn't referring to Microsoft as 'M$' a bit past it now? Is it still really worth the extra effort of typing $ instead of S, just to make a shit joke? Is it?

  • MaxiSleep #39 3 years ago

    The first Avatars were for the Commodore 64 as I recall for an online system called habitat. Basicly large 2d sprites but look real like Miis. So please enough with the Nintendo invented gaming and every one else copied them pleases.


    [link url=http://www.atarimagazines.com/compute/issue77/habitat.p hp
    ]http://ww w.atarimagazines.com/compute/is...[/link]

  • rotmm #40 3 years ago

    I'm indifferent to the avatars, but the new 360 GUI is fucking lovely.

  • Xerx3s #41 3 years ago

    "its good to see the SDF still talking the same shit day in day out!"

    Well, their rabid activity in threads like these does give a glimpse of desperation. Kinda sad.

  • floppylobster #42 3 years ago

    "With an interface where you build a character that looks like yourself, or whoever you want it to look like."

    If you want to look like a needy, attention-seeking cunt. Who stands to one side like they have a carrot up their arse. And dresses like a twat.

    And now I can't delete it! I'm stuck with having an avatar in some form.

    And most of the girls... look like dudes, because of their damned annoying mouth options. I can't tell you how much I hate these new avatars. I don't care if my friends want them I just want to be rid of mine. I will pay if I can delete mine.
    Edited by 1 at 27/11/08 @ 00:06

  • Ryze #43 3 years ago

    @chris_ace

    What a fucking tosser you are.

    Did that bollocks make you feel good?

    Funny how the 'dead' console sells more games per console than the others.

    *chuckle*

  • smelly #44 3 years ago

    Rare wanted avatars since the (wii.. sorry 360) launch

  • siro #45 3 years ago

    I really like the Avatars and Miis (when they get used) even more so. Especially the Gamerpic photo function is ace for the avatars. If you chose to delete the current composition the Avatar will have a scared look - if you then cancel and quickly change to the gamerpic photo booth thing, you can capture that. All kinds of neat ideas in there.

  • kangarootoo #46 3 years ago

    "The concept of avatars is something that we came up with about four years ago now"

    And there was me thinking the concept had been around for hundreds of years (never one to let a pedantic point slip, oh no).

    I don't mind the avatars too much tbh. Initially the idea didn't interest me at all, now it interests me a little bit. Its kind of fun seeing what my friends have done with their avatars, and the party system does work well (although that could have worked equally well without avatars, they do add a certain something).

    I'm not sure about them making the 360 less spiky though. I wasn't aware that the mass market really expected their electronic goods to give them a friendly hug.

  • knocker #47 3 years ago

    With that much time to think about it you would have thought they would have been a bit, well .... better ?

    (I would almost bet there will be a more sophisticated and varied avatar 2.0 creation tool in the next 6-9 months)

    These repeated press releases stating "we've been thinking of this for years" are starting to fall into the realm of "they dost protest too much"

    Don't particularly care for the avatars - nor the new dashboard, but it takes me a second to hit the guide button and have a cut-down version of the old but perfectly functional version. *shrug*

  • muscleblade #48 3 years ago

    @StealthAcolyte

    Im pretty sure you know that the 360 exclusives are of a higher quality than the PS3 ones. The multiplatform games are usually better on the 360 ( see face off articles on this site) too. The 360 has a better online service and a fantastic partysystem. I sold my PS3 because it was standing there collecting dust and bought a second 360 instead. You should sell yours aswell and buy a 360 so you too can participate in the best gaming experienses this generation. Next generation it might be different but i doubth it.

  • IronCladChicken #49 3 years ago

    I suspect the argument is about the contextual use of Avatars with the current gen consoles rather than the creation of Avatars themselves.

    In which context, Nintendo/Wii obviously won (even if M$ did start their development first, they copped/pussied out of marketing them until several years after the Wii launched)

    Avatars have nothing to do with computers (the term wasn't invented to refer to computer/console representations of user) they've been here for a good few millenia now - Even if you limit the argument to avatars in video games specifically, the term 'avatar' would refers to 'a graphical image that represents a person' - Which pretty much puts it with the first video game (where whatever symbol/graphic the player was controlling to play the game , represented the player).

    However, whatever the context, it's a very stupid thing to argue over.

  • General_Zod #50 3 years ago

    rare once so super
    now make mediocre games
    sucking Bills small balls
    Edited by 1 at 27/11/08 @ 10:59

  • curtlikesmeat #51 3 years ago

    Had fun for about 5 minutes creating it.... now what do I do with it? It just gets in the way of my dashboard.... sorry, I don't get it.

  • chrisjm #52 3 years ago

    Rare are still great, try playing the games.

  • BobsUncle #53 3 years ago

    @General_Zod

    Bill Gates doesn't work at Microsoft anymore, he left a while back to concetrate on running his charity.


    And anyone bitching about hating their Avatar is a knob. You don't even see the fucking thing unless you actually look for it. When I switch on it starts on the "Play current Game" option and I have to scroll up and then to the right to see him. And they easily look better than shitty Mii's.

    I swear people just bitch because they think it's fasionable to hate something new/popular.

  • RazorObsession #54 3 years ago

    no matter what i did, all the avatars i made looked like they wanted to thrust deeply into other mens bottoms.

    can we have some options to make our avatars look a bit less gay please? or to make female avatars look a bit less like trannies?

    cheers.

  • SpyroViper #55 3 years ago

    ^Agreed. Take the jeans for example. Why are all of them tight fitting bell bottoms? My guy looks like a friggin sailor! I do hope they didn't take the clothing that M$ employees wear..

  • Vermillion3000 #56 3 years ago

    LOOK - NONE OF YOU ARE LISTENING TO ME!!!

    HE'S GOT A RED HAT AND SUNGLASSES!!!


    *gaaaah* storms off in a huff...

  • VicViper #57 3 years ago

    @Vermillion3000
    Aww come back I'm sure your metroextual avatar looks great.

    Mine has a Hat and monicle, he looks like a dilbert sherlock homles. Personally their impact is so minor at the moment I barely notice them, they do add a bit more personality to dashbroad though which doesn't hurt and I like the new layout.

  • captainrentboy #58 3 years ago

    ''It just gets in the way of my dashboard.... sorry, I don't get it. ''

    Really? That's weird, because mine features on only one screen, of the many to choose from, on the dashboard.
    I'm guessing yours leaps around everywhere, jumping about when you're trying to look at the Marketplace, popping in from the corner of your screen thrusting his crotch in your direction as you browse through your music and videos....

  • Vermillion3000 #59 3 years ago

    Now that most of the fanbois have gone home, is this a good moment to start taking the piss out of Sony Home?

    I'll start!

    Yay! I can't wait to wonder around a Soylent Green reject set with an animation that makes me look as if I've done a pant poopy!

    Who's next?

  • metalangel #60 3 years ago

    Yes Rare, we really give a toss about your charmless, pointless avatars. I spent more time just doing my Fallout 3 character's face than I did designing my avatar. Perhaps because she will actually feature in the game as opposed to standing around on one menu screen doing the same three canned animations over and over.