Rage for Xbox 360 to come on two discs

By Robert Purchese Published 17 September, 2008

One for each area of the gameworld.

Id Software has had to rethink the way the content's presented in Rage because of DVD size restrictions on Xbox 360.

The original idea had been to spread the game across five or six wasteland environments, according to lead designer Tim Willits. But DVD restrictions have meant that's been turned into two larger areas - one for each of the two Xbox 360 discs.

"The PC is limitless in the amount of data you can put on it. The PS3 has about 25GB. But the Xbox 360 roughly has 6 to 8 GB of data. We're hoping we can squeeze the game down to two discs for the 360 version," Willits told 1UP.

"I wouldn't say the overall story was changed in any way in order to fit on the Xbox 360 version," Willits said, "but how the player experiences Rage's story has been altered."

Willits previously told Eurogamer that Xbox 360 was the "primary target" for Rage, which echoed comments made by fellow id Software colleague John Carmack that it was easier to realise the potential of the Xbox 360 hardware - though PS3 has its own advantages.

Rage is post-apocalyptic first-person action game with driving elements, set for release in late 2009 or in early 2010. Head over to our August preview of Rage for much more information.

Picture of Robert.

About Robert Purchese

Bertie is Eurogamer's Senior Staff Writer. When he's not hunting down news stories he's often found playing with his kids or gabbling about fantasy games and strange online worlds.

Read more articles from Robert by visiting the Robert Purchese archive page.

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Comments (232) Latest comment 3 years ago

Comments threads automatically close after 30 days, but please feel free to continue chatting on the forum!

  • Dizzy #1 3 years ago

    Isn't 2 big ones better than 5 small ones?

  • asphaltcowboy #2 3 years ago

    "so apart from the inconvenience of disc swapping, the quality is cut back on 360."

    No, it's going to be the same on all platforms, bar the disc-swapping.

  • superjag86 #3 3 years ago

    i'm getting abit fed up of all this 360 can do this and ps3 can do that - just get the game done and make sure it's good on whatever platform it's out on. i really respected criterion's approach with burnout paradise - they made no fuss and made sure the game was equally good on ps3 and 360.

  • SpyroViper #4 3 years ago

    PS3 actually has 50GB if you use a dual layer disc. He was a bit of a prat saying that.

    I hope they only dumb down the 360 version and keep the PC and PS3 versions having those 6 wastelands. If they dumb down all versions just to keep the parity accross all versions, I'm going to be really anoyed. If it can't be done on one disc, then don't do it at all. But then we'd have the 360 bum boys crying and stomping like children.

  • johnnybrn #5 3 years ago

    Ha ha.

    The 360 version is going to come on 2 discs and STILL be better than the PS3 version!

  • The_Programmer #6 3 years ago

    Why not use the 360's HDD. Lets face it you have to install great chunks of code from the PS3's Blu-ray drive as its access speed is too slow to run the game from it directly.

  • Britesparc Verified Creative, ITV #7 3 years ago

    They're not dumbing anything down. He said there were gonna be five areas, but they've sorta merged them together so now there are two bigger areas. At least that's how I read it.

    All versions will be the same minus the disc-swapping, and the fact that if 360 is the lead platform that'll be the best optimised and probably run the best.

  • spammage #8 3 years ago

    HAHA BLU-RAY SUX!

  • superdelphinus #9 3 years ago

    Think this will be a more and more common issue over the rest of this gen's life expectancy

  • kangarootoo #10 3 years ago

    @SpyroViper

    Perhaps there are good reasons for not wanting to use a double layer disc?

  • miiiguel #11 3 years ago

    wipeout HD, the best PS3 game is 1Gb...

    Size does not matter.


  • PlugMonkey #12 3 years ago

    SpyroViper - I sense a deep seeded emotional conflict manifesting itself through your choices of electrical appliance.

    Now, tell me about your mother.

    *leans back in leather chair and flips notepad*

  • Dizzy #13 3 years ago

    "They're not dumbing anything down. He said there were gonna be five areas, but they've sorta merged them together so now there are two bigger areas. At least that's how I read it. "

    Indeed... there were going to be 5-6 smaller areas that you can free roam in. To minimize disk swapping on 360 they split that up into 2 big areas and they will probably tweak the "plot" so you can't easily switch back and forth between those 2 (and hence reduce disk swapping to almost nothing)

  • Waldo #14 3 years ago

    "the game should be 3 discs."

    If a 360 game comes on more than two discs, the publisher has to pay royalties to Microsoft.
    Edited by 1 at 17/09/08 @ 12:52

  • T4RG4 #15 3 years ago

    It'll be pony anyway... Graphics over game. (Bloated data at that no doubt!).

  • Collymilad #16 3 years ago

    And once again blu-ray proves unneccesary for anything, oh except if you can't be bothered switching discs.

  • bengray66 #17 3 years ago

    " Think this will be a more and more common issue over the rest of this gen's life expectancy "


    Why is it an issue? It's hardly a massive task to swap a disc over is it? Lost Odyssey has the same. What a minute (if that) from getting off the sofa?

  • samaran #18 3 years ago

    wait, how is 'we're hoping we can squeeze it down to two discs' proof that the game hasn't been compromised? for heaven's sake, this is one time that blu-ray shows a clear advantage, can't you just let the manic PS3 fans have it? the game won't be as good as borderlands anyway.

  • Triggerhappytel #19 3 years ago

    These sorts of news stories are dangerous; really set the fanboys on both sides off.

  • Widge #20 3 years ago

    Depends on the kind of game. Imagine something with the structure of GTA3, but instead of a load between the three islands, you have a disc swap. That would be sucky.

  • KayJay #21 3 years ago

    johnnybrn wrote - "The 360 version is going to come on 2 discs and STILL be better than the PS3 version!"

    Where did it say that? If you read some of the comments and the links in the other article everything points to the PS3 & PC versions being a little better...

    Here
    Here
    And Here

  • miiiguel #22 3 years ago

    "Why is it an issue? It's hardly a massive task to swap a disc over is it? Lost Odyssey has the same. What a minute (if that) from getting off the sofa? "

    Inbetween short periods of 20 hours. Shock!

    As far as I'm concern it can be massively better, and come with a copy of Daikatana included is the massive size-advantage that is the Blu-Ray.
    Edited by 1 at 17/09/08 @ 13:01

  • glaeken #23 3 years ago

    @Triggerhappytel

    Indeed these stories are dangerous. Upsetting 13 year old idiots is incredibly important in the scheme of things.

  • ThePissartist #24 3 years ago

    I'm slightly confused about this.

    The game uses Megatexture to paint one giant texturemap across the whole level and presumably not allowing for streaming from the disk (they'd then have to make many variations of the same texture). If you consider the PS3/360 have roughly 512mg for memory each, the gameworlds must surely have to be split into smaller chunks to allow for it to be loaded into memory?

    If the 360 DVDs have between 6 and 9gb of space, this means that it's impossible to load all the code into memory. Surely, the gameworlds would have to be divided into 12 smaller chunks due to the limitations of the amount of memory.

    Am I being stupid and missing something?

  • KayJay #25 3 years ago

    Also...
    John Carmack Wrote - "You could design a game where the PS3 would be the superior platform, but you'd have to go out of your way to do it. If you're doing a game like people just want to do games now, the 360's the better platform."

    Sorry but is this not just f'ing lazy. "Go out of your Way" what sort of thing is that to say.

  • Sweetmate #26 3 years ago

    Well after the fall dashboard update, theres the option of copying 360 games to the hard drive, so disc swapping wont really be an issue if you are willing to give up hard drive space.

  • johnnybrn #27 3 years ago

    kj66246,

    You took the bait my mate.

    TBH I can see this game just another Doom/Quake game with prettier graphics.

    Disc swopping should be too much of an issue if you only have to swap the discs occasionally. Remember FF7 and how many discs that come on!

  • miiiguel #28 3 years ago

    Carmack is the new PS3-ultras spiritual guru. (well, until he says something completly different).

  • Beano #29 3 years ago

    Where are all the "bluraylol" posts?

  • Dizzy #30 3 years ago

    "The game uses Megatexture to paint one giant texturemap across the whole level and presumably not allowing for streaming from the disk (they'd then have to make many variations of the same texture)"

    The "megatexture" is for the level designers. For the game engine the texture is indeed streamed from disk.

  • johnnybrn #31 3 years ago

    'wipeout HD, the best PS3 game is 1Gb...

    Size does not matter. '

    Thats a matter of opinion, the gameplay and mechanics are 13 years old!

    I would say the best PS3 game is MGS4 and so size does matter ;)

  • Xerx3s #32 3 years ago

    "No, it's going to be the same on all platforms, bar the disc-swapping. "

    With virtual discs coming this autumn, I doubt that it will be a problem.

  • sickpuppysoftware #33 3 years ago

    The key part isn't PS3 this, XBox that. It's the fact they've changed the wastelands. You know, wastelands, large areas full of not very much. How much empty space with a cabin here and there do you want?

  • penhalion #34 3 years ago

    @ThePissartist

    No you aren't being stupid.

    Yes you are missing something. Megatextures are streamed. They are effectively just another type of clip mapping so saying the world is repesented by a huge texture is very misleading indeed. Best thing to do is look up megatextures on the internet as it's a math intensive thing once you realise what they are actually doing.

    They should coin a new phrase "lies, damned lies and Carmack"

  • Retroid #35 3 years ago

    I'm betting on the second disk being an install disk.

  • UncleLou #36 3 years ago

    Platform fanboys in reading comprehension difficulties shocker.

  • Gnort #37 3 years ago

    "No, it's going to be the same on all platforms, bar the disc-swapping. "

    With virtual discs coming this autumn, I doubt that it will be a problem.

    Do we know for sure if copying disc images to the HDD will eliminate disc-swapping? The impression I got was that it was a very rudimentary system, and it still requires the game disc in order to activate. If this is the case, how will it know to look for disc 2 on the HDD unless you put disc 2 in the drive first, which would necessitate a disc swap even if both discs were copied to the HDD.

  • BobsUncle #38 3 years ago

    @kj66246

    Devs basically have a choice. Target the PS3 and make the most of it's obscure architecture for minimal gains, causing delays and extended dev cycles and massive costs. Or target the 360 which is basically a PC architecture which everyone knows how to use and takes minimal effort and time.

    Both outcomes look pretty much the same, except the PS3 route has probably bankrupted you and made your game release late.

    It's not lazy, simple bussiness really.

  • autogunner #39 3 years ago

    rage you fools. chop the game in half, sell the other as DLC and make MILLIONS!!!11

  • Widge #40 3 years ago

    Christ, Mirror's Edge must have bankrupted Dice, is this still coming out now?

  • BobsUncle #41 3 years ago

    "I would say the best PS3 game is MGS4 and so size does matter"

    But how much of that is just pure cut scene bloat to stoke Kojima's ego?

  • drumbaby #42 3 years ago

    So...making it for the Xbox 360 meant the game HAD to be changed because the 360 has limits, but hey not really, because that would make the 360 look bad?

    Right, got it, cheers.

  • the_dudefather #43 3 years ago

    summary of thread so far:

    RAGE

  • miiiguel #44 3 years ago

    @ drumbaby

    You forgot "we have to follow the leader, because PS3 is by no means PS2..."

    got it?

  • Xerx3s #45 3 years ago

    "Do we know for sure if copying disc images to the HDD will eliminate disc-swapping? The impression I got was that it was a very rudimentary system, and it still requires the game disc in order to activate. If this is the case, how will it know to look for disc 2 on the HDD unless you put disc 2 in the drive first, which would necessitate a disc swap even if both discs were copied to the HDD."

    Dunno but it would seem like the logical thing to do right? Surely they can make it so that you can only boot such a game with game disk 1 (for lack of a better name) and that it automatically fetches the next install but checks if game disk 1 is in the drive.

    From a technical pov, it shouldn't be that hard to do.

  • Britesparc Verified Creative, ITV #46 3 years ago

    I'd have thought for multi-disc games they'd have it so that if you installed to HD, you could run the entire game just off one disc. Although I guess then you could lend it to a friend and have a disc each or something. Anyway, it'd make sense if you didn't have to swap discs once installed - saying that, I've only got a 20gb HD so I doubt I'll be installing anything, grumble.

  • Gnort #47 3 years ago

    @Xerx3s

    I just get the impression that the system won't allow it. Sure, the developer could go back and patch the game to do that, but it would require the game to know if it had been dumped on the HDD, and I'm not sure it can do that with the proposed system. Remember, this is a virtual CD, not a HDD install, they're very different things.

    It would be the logical thing to do, but that doesn't always mean it will happen. I certainly hope it does, though.

  • Bealsy #48 3 years ago

    PC - limitless discs?

    erm... eh? Unless they're only distributing it digitally I'm fairly sure a PC DVD is, well, a DVD. Yes they can pack stuff up, but then they could do that on x360 as well and just have longer load times/install to Hard Drive.

    To me, this just sounds like lazy programming. GTAIV fit on one disc, as does FIFA09. That's a random example I know, but think of all the kits, faces, etc that they have to store on there. How can one FPS take up so much room? Unless they're using CGI video for cutscenes instead of the in-game renderer?

  • andywilkie35 #49 3 years ago

    "ps3 is best of both worlds. quiet and you only install a fraction of the game."

    shame that there are shit all games out for it tho eh? My ps3 is gathering dust, altho it does get an occasional runout as my glorified DVD player

  • SpyroViper #50 3 years ago

    At the end of the day, Carmack hates the PS3. Of course 360 will be the lead platform and even though this game is shipping in 2 years time, I'm sure they will find an excuse as to why.

    If some not very famous dev houses can produce amazing PS3 exclusive games that look and play great, surely Carmack can code for the PS3 properly... LAZY!

  • SteveB #51 3 years ago

    you install gigs and gigs worth, for the sole purpose of making the console quieter

    I thought the main purpose was to decrease load times and improve texture loading. Mine is still too noisy even with no disc in it !

  • ThePissartist #52 3 years ago

    @penhalion+Dizzy

    Thanks for the information - I'll go do some research.

  • Bealsy #53 3 years ago

    Still sounds like lazy programming. All this "we've had to compress the textures so much to fit it onto two DVD's" bollocks doesn't sound right to me. Like I said, if it fits on a single PC DVD, why won't it fit on one 360 DVD?

  • Widge #54 3 years ago

    Hello? I just got an email alert that someone had rolled out the "my PS3 is a dusty DVD player" cliche, is this the right place?

  • Vanmunt #55 3 years ago

    ps3 is best of both worlds. quiet and you only install a fraction of the game."

    shame that there are shit all games out for it tho eh? My ps3 is gathering dust, altho it does get an occasional runout as my glorified DVD player

    you sir are a cock.

    why are people getting upset about a game not out until 2010, there is a good chance some of us probably will not even be alive or really care about 2 discs by then.. get a reality check people.

  • UncleLou #56 3 years ago

    "PC - limitless discs?"

    Please, read the article again. He doesn't say "limitless disc".

  • El-Dev #57 3 years ago

    Widge, well said.

    I wonder how many 360 owners have claimed to own a PS3 just to say it's a dust gathering dvd player.

    I only turn my 360 on to scare away the crows that nest in the trees outside my window.

  • Bealsy #58 3 years ago

    @ UncleLou

    I know he doesn't say that, I was summing up.

    "The PC is limitless in the amount of data you can put on it"

    He's either on about digital distribution, or packing stuff up as tight as a virgin onto the DVD. Both of which, could be done on the 360. Not that it bothers me, it'll just be another standard ID release.

  • Dizzy #59 3 years ago

    "I wonder how many 360 owners have claimed to own a PS3 just to say it's a dust gathering dvd player. "

    I wonder how many PS3 owners have claimed to own a 360 to say they have a RROD or that it is noisy.

  • SteveB #60 3 years ago

    Apparently there is no loading speed-up at all after installing games

    Really ? That's a bit rubbish if true. I was holding off getting Oblivion until the update because of the supposed benefits.

  • Ranger101 #61 3 years ago

    "autogunner
    17-Sep-08 13:18:20 rage you fools. chop the game in half, sell the other as DLC and make MILLIONS!!!11 "


    Autogunner for new CEO of iD!

  • Mornelithe #62 3 years ago

    I'm pretty sure the reason why they're saying PC is limitless, is because when they release multiple discs for a PC game, it doesn't cost them additional money per disc ala 360. Unfortunately, if they do this to the game, I'm passing. Not going to play anything that's gimped intentionally.


    Morne

  • Ranger101 #63 3 years ago

    Bealsy it's more in reference to the extortionate Royalty payments Microsoft take for having extra discs for a single game. On the PC, iD could ship it on 10 or 20 DVD's if they feel like for virtually no cost, and then expect the PC user to install it all fully (which PC users have been used to since 1984).

    A second or 3rd dvd for the 360 eats significantly into profit.

    Blame Microsoft for that one. They wanted to 'pursuade' developers to keep games on a single DVD, especially for multiplatform games, in order to minimise the differences between Sony's approach to media and theirs.

    Depending on the feedback from Rage, when it comes out, they might have to reconsider their extra-disc-extra-royalties policy.

  • Dr.Haggard #64 3 years ago

    Still sounds like lazy programming. All this "we've had to compress the textures so much to fit it onto two DVD's" bollocks doesn't sound right to me. Like I said, if it fits on a single PC DVD, why won't it fit on one 360 DVD?

    The moment someone calls John Carmack a 'lazy programmer' you just know it's time to stop reading these comments threads.

    With regard to the comment about it fitting on a PC dvd, the data is compressed into cab files which the installer unpacks, it will be a lot bigger once you've installed it. On the 360 it has to be streamed directly from the dvd as you play, and obviously the more compression the slower it'll be accessing that data.
    Edited by 1 at 17/09/08 @ 14:37

  • Bealsy #65 3 years ago

    "Not going to play anything that's gimped intentionally"

    I'm guessing you stayed well away from Wall-E then, or in fact, most half arsed "we don't need a plot cos we're ID" games.

    /coat

  • Mornelithe #66 3 years ago

    Indeed, gamers need to stand up to developers and hardware designers. The only way to get the message across to them is to hit them where it hurts...their wallets.


    Morne

  • Bealsy #67 3 years ago

    @ Dr.Haggard

    I am neither kid, fuckwit or fanboy, just stating a point and asking a question. So Carmack programs the entire game by himself does he? Thought not. So stop your ridiculous labelling because apart from that you cleared up my question about data compression on the 360 very well, no need to jump on this

    ForumtwatA: You're a knob
    ForumtwatB: No, you're a knob, and ps3lolz

    bandwagon.

    EDIT: aaaah, removal of the fuckwit comment. Wise choice. Swearing is for children, you twat. haha.
    Edited by 1 at 17/09/08 @ 14:42

  • Grunk #68 3 years ago

    I guess the key question is...
    will you be able to install the both discs onto the hardrive at once so you can play the game without disc swapping?

  • chris_ace #69 3 years ago

    Post deleted at 11:55:13 13-12-2011

  • MrXBob #70 3 years ago

    Umm... how is it that everybody missed how ridiculously stupid this whole quote is?

    He talks about the sizes of discs - and says the PC is limitless. Um... no it isnt. It's the same as 360. It uses DVDs. Even if they used BluRay (which would be stupid as a tiny amount of PC owners actually use BluRay drives) they'd still have a 'limit'.

    It's just another case of ID not knowing what they're talking about. There are a million other examples if you get yourselves on Google. Also everybody else that published this story posted an update immediately afterwards from ID saying it was wrong.

  • smoison #71 3 years ago

    Wow, alot of people seem to think the PC plays games the same way as the Xbox.

    Have people no idea how PC games install and the effects of compression?

    This is what happens when gaming is done on consoles, they have no understanding of the hardware they use.

  • Gnort #72 3 years ago

    @MrXBob

    You seem to have missed the point - the PC does have effectively limitless space, and it's got nothing to do with the capacity of a single DVD-ROM. If you so desired, you could release a game on 20 DVDs and force the player to install 180GB of data on their HDD before the game would run. If they couldn't do that, then you just tell them they should upgrade their hardware if they want to play your game. You can't do that with a console game.



  • Dr.Haggard #73 3 years ago

    EDIT: aaaah, removal of the fuckwit comment. Wise choice. Swearing is for children, you twat. haha.

    I removed it because it wasn't aimed at you, but since it was you I was replying to I thought it might have looked that way. Nevertheless the phrase 'lazy programming' really gets up my nose :)

  • space_ace #74 3 years ago

    king's quest 4: the perils of rosella... 8 (eight) diskettes! you're too spoiled :p

  • ronuds #75 3 years ago

    All this over a game that could quite easily suck?

  • Gnort #76 3 years ago

    @Darren

    No, we can create a disc image on our Xbox HDD after the Autumn update. It's not an installation, and we don't know for sure whether it will eliminate disc swapping.

  • UncleLou #77 3 years ago

    Umm... how is it that everybody missed how ridiculously stupid this whole quote is?

    He talks about the sizes of discs - and says the PC is limitless. Um... no it isnt. It's the same as 360. It uses DVDs. Even if they used BluRay (which would be stupid as a tiny amount of PC owners actually use BluRay drives) they'd still have a 'limit'.

    It's just another case of ID not knowing what they're talking about. There are a million other examples if you get yourselves on Google. Also everybody else that published this story posted an update immediately afterwards from ID saying it was wrong.

    I need both of my hands for this massive

    /facepalm.

  • Agent_Orange #78 3 years ago

    Slow news day?

  • Steroyd #79 3 years ago

    To me, this just sounds like lazy programming.

    Unless they're using CGI video for cutscenes instead of the in-game renderer?

    Why do people use these lines everytime?

  • UncleLou #80 3 years ago

    "@ UncleLou

    I know he doesn't say that, I was summing up.

    "The PC is limitless in the amount of data you can put on it"

    He's either on about digital distribution, or packing stuff up as tight as a virgin onto the DVD. Both of which, could be done on the 360. Not that it bothers me, it'll just be another standard ID release.
    "

    But it is. Not limitless, but the only limit is the hard drive. PC GAMES DON'T STREAM OF DVDS. Games like Flight Simulator or Medieval 2 come on multiple DVDs. GTA IV will need nearly 20 GB of hdd space for the PC version, because they can afford to not compress the audio etc.

  • Bilbo_bobbins #81 3 years ago

    So pretty much said they find it easier to write for the Xbox because its simple, and they don't have the time or intelligence to fulfil the PS3 potential. They also have to put it on 2 discs for Xbox and alter it slightly.

    HA HA. This shows why the Blu-ray is better. I can't see how Xbox fans are saying this is good ?!?!

    The game will be the same, except Xbox gamers will have to swap discs and PS3 owners don't.

  • Widge #82 3 years ago

    They should have made two rages. A PC/PS3 one and a 360 one. They could then port the 360 one at a later date.

  • Mornelithe #83 3 years ago

    @ Bilbo_Bobbins - No, what it says, is that developers are willing to rape their games of quality content, in order to deliver the same product to the 360 as the PS3/PC. I fail to see how this is a moment where we should all rejoice. If more developers follow Id's suite, this could be the start of an ugly downhill slide in gaming.


    Morne

  • Fleeby #84 3 years ago

    Like others here, am equally confused as to why some people have forgotten/don't know that you can install a game to a PC's hard drive, in effect making the DVD/Blu Ray issue an utter non-issue on the PC. In other words, ID are correct.

  • Bealsy #85 3 years ago

    @ UncleLou

    No need for caps lock, you can't be that angry. I did read what you put about PC's not streaming off DVDs. But lets be honest, the game will be shit and there's no need to turn this into a megapost.

    /bored.

  • Dr.Haggard #86 3 years ago

    So pretty much said they find it easier to write for the Xbox because its simple, and they don't have the time or intelligence to fulfil the PS3 potential.

    Lou, could I borrow that massive facepalm?

  • Bilbo_bobbins #87 3 years ago

    @Mornelithe - I don't agree. It's obvious Microsoft have handed over a brown envelope to them so that the PS3 doesn't get what it can do (which is alot more).
    In the end these developers will lose out on the PS3 because people wont buy them if it's not up to scratch, I don't see that as a problem as there will always be designers looking to create something which uses the power of the PS3. The Xbox is losing out to the PS3 and very soon most people will be purchasing/playing on one, and developing games that are not as good for the PS3 will eventually make them realise that they don't make the money on the Xbox (bungs or not).

  • KayJay #88 3 years ago

    Sorry, but those who don't like the "Lazy Dev" Comments...

    He is implying himself that he is a little lazy... He Said - "You could design a game where the PS3 would be the superior platform, but you'd have to go out of your way to do it."

    "You'd have to go out of your way"... Well is that not kind of his and his teams Job to ensure a decent game is released.

  • Gnort #89 3 years ago

    @Mornelithe

    Rape their games of quality content? The start of an ugly downhill slide in gaming?

    It's not like they've decided to produce shit minigame compilations for the Wii exclusively, now, is it?

  • Yaz #90 3 years ago

    Bilbo_bobbins wrote: "I don't agree. It's obvious Microsoft have handed over a brown envelope to them so that the PS3 doesn't get what it can do (which is alot more)."

    Nope, no bribes. Moving on. :)

  • Mnia786 #91 3 years ago

    PS3 DL = 50GB so thats the upper limit, not 25. All I can say is bwahhaha, time for the 720 to be released with green-ray (which will hold less that a br disc)? (MS dont seem optimistic about joining br)

  • Thunderbolt #92 3 years ago

    Bilbo_bobbins wrote: "I don't agree. It's obvious Microsoft have handed over a brown envelope to them so that the PS3 doesn't get what it can do (which is alot more)."

    Yep, Lair, Heavenly Sword and Haze all showed what the PS3 was capable of!

    ;)

  • Mornelithe #93 3 years ago

    @ Gnort - No, they're only saying that they had to change the entire vision of the game in order to bring it to the 360. IE. Gimping the game of their original vision. It's quite obvious the Wii would not be able to handle something that the 360 just barely can. The downhill slide I was referring to, is M$'s ability to either A) Throw money at developers in order to keep the game the same on other machines as theirs, or B) The developer just not wanting to screw the 360 fanbase. Either way, not interested anymore. I'll grab this online when it launches for PC.


    Morne

  • Mornelithe #94 3 years ago

    @ Thunderbolt - Yeah, and Too Human turned out to be a real quality 360 title LOL. Btw, Heavenly Sword was awesome, not sure what you're going on about. Lair was crap until they released the new control scheme.


    Morne

  • FooAtari #95 3 years ago

    Haven't read them yet. But 110 comments about a game being on 2 discs?

    Must be a quiet day for a lot of people

  • ronuds #96 3 years ago

    @ Mornelithe and Bilbo Bobbins (cool name, btw)

    Aren't you guys being a bit over dramatic? He said none of the content has actually changed, just that they've combined 5 areas into 2 and you guys are acting like Carmack has come and burned your house down. If you own a PS3, the game is the same as it would have been from day 1 except you have 2 huge areas instead of 5 smaller areas. This isn't the beginning of anything but PS3 owners having bragging rights to something only they care about in trying to justify their purchase. If anything, blame Sony for releasing their console a year late and a couple hundred dollars too overrpriced. Had they gone the more conservative route and not tried pushing their new disc format over making a gaming console, developers would still be leading on the PS3 and this wouldn't be a problem. Don't blame MS for selling lots of consoles and making it economical for developers to make their games for it first and the PS3 second. Good grief.

    Like I said before: All this over a game that could possibly suck!

  • UncleLou #97 3 years ago

    No need for caps lock, you can't be that angry

    Oh, I am not angry. But after MrXBob and you repeated the same nonsense several times, I thought it was time to make the deciding point a little more obvious.

  • Gavio #98 3 years ago

    @ El-Dev

    'Widge, well said.

    I wonder how many 360 owners have claimed to own a PS3 just to say it's a dust gathering dvd player.

    I only turn my 360 on to scare away the crows that nest in the trees outside my window.'

    Well done, you diss 360 owners only to then contradict yourseld. That deserves a clap.

    ...and please the noise really isn't a problem, unless your siting about one inch from it and have no sound on which you clearly are.

    If your gonna moan about something at least moan about something credible like the quality of games! But you can't!!!

  • ronuds #99 3 years ago

    @ Gavio

    I agree...PS3 fanboys look for any possible reason to rag on the 360 regarding anything but its games, which is seemingly the most important part of a console.

    I have a near-launch console and while it is loud, it's nothing so loud that the noise isn't drowned out by my TV's speakers. Not only that, but I know people with PS3's and those aren't exactly silent either. I'd say the difference is rather negligible, but the PS3 is definitely a bit quieter. Not so much as to brag, though, unless you're a PS3 fanboy of course.

    I'd doubt most of the people complaining have even been near a 360.

  • Mornelithe #100 3 years ago

    @ Ronuds - Time will tell if this is just the harbinger of doom for developers original visions. Eventually, all developers will submit their plans to MS, to make sure it follows suit with their wants, prior to developement. As I said before, not getting a game that was changed intentionally on MY system of choice, because the OTHER system of choice, can't hack it.

    Additionally, my roommate owns a 360. So, yeah, try again.


    Morne
    Edited by 1 at 17/09/08 @ 15:58

  • ronuds #101 3 years ago

    @ k109

    Where did I say the PS3 was in any way better than the 360? It's a bloated piece of nonsense with a bunch of hardware that's mostly uneccessary. And if you think needing MORE space to make a game is going forwards in time then I think you're the one being short-sighted. I'd rather developers figure out how to make games fit into a 5mb tiny disc than needing a billion gigs for anything. Sony made the mistake in making a product nobody wanted to buy or program for, not Microsoft.

    So maybe you should actually read what's been written before calling people idiots. The only idiots I see here are the PS3 fanboys getting upset over something so stupid that it's hardly worth mentioning.

  • ronuds #102 3 years ago

    @ Mornelithe

    No...360 owners haven't been affected by the bloatedness of the PS3's hardware at all. No way. I haven't had to wait extra time so the game can release simultaneously on both systems. I haven't had to worry about if my game for the 360 is in some way gimped because of the PS3's horrid setup. Disc size is only 1 of many issues programmers have to account for. Get a grip, dude...we both pay for how the other console is setup, it's not only one-sided.

    And just because your roommate has a 360 doesn't mean you aren't exaggerating just a bit about how loud it is in comparison to the PS3. I'm not so much a fanboy that I can't admit to a console's faults. And while the 360 is loud and louder than the PS3, it's only made an issue by people who don't even own it, like you.

  • mcbi4kh2 #103 3 years ago

    . I'd rather developers figure out how to make games fit into a 5mb tiny disc than needing a billion gigs for anything

    Are you joking? Id rather them spend the time making an excellent game than spend the time catering to a machines particular shortcomings (be that storage space or an overly convuluted architecture).

  • Rash' #104 3 years ago

    The defense force can sugar coat it however they want, bottom line is DVD isn't suffient going forward.

  • Thunderbolt #105 3 years ago

    ^^^

    But current BR againt great either for playing games. Brilliant for movies not games

  • ronuds #106 3 years ago

    @ evil

    I'm sorry, but I respectfully disagree. I was actually quite surprised how loud the PS3 was when I heard it running for the 1st time, mostly because of all the garbage people go on about the 360. Like I said, it is definitely more silent than the 360, but in no way shape or form completely silent as the people here would have you believe.

    I have good ears. ;)

  • ronuds #107 3 years ago

    "Are you joking? Id rather them spend the time making an excellent game than spend the time catering to a machines particular shortcomings (be that storage space or an overly convuluted architecture)."

    Obviously those technologies would be separate from each other. The push for "more" and "bigger" isn't something I agree with if our plans are to store more and more and more data onto something the size of a disc. Figure out how to turn 10gb's into 1mb and then I'll be impressed, not the other way around.

  • Bilbo_bobbins #108 3 years ago

    @ ronuds - cheers for the nice comment on name - ha ha.

    Anyway, I used to own a 360 when they first came out. I actually got bored with it after a month. I didn't think it was good enough for a next Gen console and it was SERIOUSLY LOUD!. Anyway that has nothing to do with this. What I am saying is that the dev is lazy and can't be bothered to programme for the PS3. If he did, the game would be alot better. Instead they do the easy option of designing the game around the 360. If this is the case, Rage probably wont sell as much on the PS3 and they will probably regret it in the end.
    What I was trying to say is that in the end, developers are going to want to design for the PS3 because of it's potential. I just think at the moment M$ are trying to buy their way into Sony's slice, which really isn't working. Sony will prove what the PS3 can do with the BIG releases coming this year and early next year.

  • mjhoward #109 3 years ago

    Articles like this are always useful for feeding the Ignore button. One of these threads every so often ensures the next couple of weeks reading is a breeze.

  • Thunderbolt #110 3 years ago

    Oh god am I tired of hearing about the PS3 'potential'

    Show me one game - ONE! on the PS3 that can't be done the 360.

  • Rash' #111 3 years ago

    ronuds: "I agree...PS3 fanboys look for any possible reason to rag on the 360 regarding anything but its games, which is seemingly the most important part of a console."

    Just like 360 fanboys look for any reson to rag on PS3 for not having as many good games. A number it has by default remember, as it was a rushed out console. Now please stop that.

  • ronuds #112 3 years ago

    evil...that's true, only the 60gb PS3 I've heard. Haven't heard nor seen a 40 or 80gb anywhere, and nobody I know has one. If I ever do hear one, I'll report back with my findings. ;)

    Anyway, it's not the fan that's the problem on the 360, but the DVD drive itself. Once that kicks on it gets much louder, which is one of the things disc loading will fix (hopefullly). MS also released a patch in one of their firmware updates that makes it so the 360 only tries to access the disc when absolutely necessary, which cuts down on the noise a bit.

  • Les #113 3 years ago

    "shame that there are shit all games out for it tho eh?"

    Not that much less than on 360 though you have to be stupid (IMO) to buy them both.

  • Rash' #114 3 years ago

    "Show me one game - ONE! on the PS3 that can't be done the 360."

    Wipeout HD

    MS don't allow over 250MB content on Live :)

  • mcbi4kh2 #115 3 years ago

    @ronuds Never gonna happen, and if it did it would take that much cpu power to uncompress it would make more sense to have a larger storage.

    @Thunderbolt
    LBP, apparently becasue of the firmness with which MS hold onto Live. ie no sharing, mod content etc. Plus UT3 is severely handicapped on the 360 for the same reason IMO.

  • Mornelithe #116 3 years ago

    @ Ronuds - Ahh funny, you're not even reading my posts. Please go back and point out where I said anything about the loudness of the 360. Haven't found it have you? Cause, I never said that. Nice try though.

    Both systems are lacking in several departments, any GAMER knows that. RAM and GPU's. Both are last gen, at best. Multiple DVD's/BR wouldn't be necessary had both companies added just a bit more in the way of hardware. They didn't, so we have to look at what's there. Sony's architecture, while it may prove a challenge (to some) to develope for, has proven it can equal and in some regards best the 360. Additionally, the 360 has also show that it shines in certain areas as well FSAA, for one. What the 360 is now showing to lack, is the HDD and Disc capacity. Capacity wouldn't be an issue, if MS didn't rape developers for royalties on multiple disc games. But since they do, and since they also lost the HD formating war, they've pretty much limited themselves in future releases. Think on it, as games get more graphically, texturally, and physically intense, the size of the game is bound to increase. There's no avoiding it. MS Made a mistake, and now we as gamers, are having to suffer for it. This may be a small inconvenience to some, with regards to this game, but it marks what could be the beginning of a major trend in games developement. My only hope, is that the PS3 userbase continues to catchup, and eventually surpass the 360, so that devs can start doing PS3/PC games, in lieu of gimping their vision to fit it on the 360. I don't hate the 360, I just hate how M$ brought it out.

    Morne

  • Rash' #117 3 years ago

    evil and ronuds, I have 60GB and a loud whirring sound is news to me. I leave my system on for hours on end and never does such a thing occure.

  • Thunderbolt #118 3 years ago

    Off topic - I want LBP to be awesome but the jury is still out on how great the user created content will be, and PS3 fanboys are in for one hell of a ribbing if it isn't all that.



  • mcbi4kh2 #119 3 years ago

    @Rash'
    Me too, I host Warhawk almost 24 / 7 in the same room and I cant hear a whisper.

    @Thunderbolt!
    User created content will be awesome, it always is!
    Edited by 1 at 17/09/08 @ 16:33

  • Rash' #120 3 years ago

    "I just hate how M$ brought it out."

    Agreed. It's a rushed piece of crap. Excellent software i.e. games, interface and Live, but hardware quality is shit and not worth my money.

  • kopykatt #121 3 years ago

    Wow, I thought this was Eurogamer not pre-school. Lets wait for the game and then we will find out if 80% of these comments are actually relevent. I think if disc swapping is a regular thing for the 360 version it will be a pain in the donkey, but of course this will depend on the effort of the developer. I think (and this is just an opinion fanboys) that it would have been less restrictive on the developer to only do a PC and PS3 version but of course they need to reach as much of the gaming market as possible.

  • toy_brain #122 3 years ago

    "As long as the disk swapping doesn't get as ridiculous as MGS4 loading screens there shouldn't be a problem."

    Guh! Now that was irritating. Especially as I'm the owner of a PS3 with an upgraded 320gb HDD - would've been nice to have the option to install the entire game, rather than 5gb chunks every 3 hours.
    Its one of the things stopping me from taking a second run through it.

    As for Rage and thoughts of installing it onto the 360 to prevent disk-swapping.... well I wouldn't get your hopes up. Each disk will be executable on its own, like all multi-disk consoles games are, and therefore have its own security check to go through on bootup, so you'll most likely need the right disk to access the right wasteland - HDD installed or not.
    Probably.
    Its not like I'm a programmer or anything, so I could just be talking shit.

    Anyway, rather than bitching among each other, why dont we all unite under the universal understanding that all versions will somehow be gimped.

    PS3 version will require an install (probably)
    360 version will require a disk-swap
    PC version will require an install, involving disk-swaps, and the usual compatability fun-and-games.

    Woot!
    Edited by 1 at 17/09/08 @ 16:36

  • Rash' #123 3 years ago

    Thunderbolt!, Watch some of the gameplay videos of LBP then comment on the game. It is unlikely to bomb. User creatied content will be diverse, which will offer it's own fair share of entertainment.
    Edited by 1 at 17/09/08 @ 16:38

  • Mornelithe #124 3 years ago

    @ Rash - That's the problem I have with the 360, it's not the games, it's not Live, it's not the community. It's putting money towards a company who openly admits knowing about a 30% failure rate, prior to launch. And only did so, to get out a year in advance of competition. Sorry, MS owns the OS market, and that's a terrible debacle for many. Not going to contribute to them owning the console market, if they continue this kind of business practice.


    Morne

  • Rash' #125 3 years ago

    "Sorry, MS owns the OS market, and that's a terrible debacle for many. Not going to contribute to them owning the console market, if they continue this kind of business practice."

    That's my fear when I hear comments like those by Peter Moore recently speaking about the company's one time interest in buying out Ninty. I can't support a company the stifles competition. It may have the firmest vision of a promising future, but if that future is at the long term cost of the consumer then I seriously have to question whether I support such a business.

  • PrivateJoker #126 3 years ago

    @Thunderbolt!

    "Show me one game - ONE! on the PS3 that can't be done the 360. "

    Here's three: LBP (as above plus it's 40gb on the disc)
    Heavy Rain
    God Of War 3

    and plus how many discs is Final Fantasy XIII going to come on.
    It's also good to see more and more third party dev's using PS3 as the lead development console now they're getting their heads round the cell processor.
    I just wonder what this game would be like if Xbox didn't exist or had same specs as PS3 cus looks like we're losing out for parity's sake.

  • ronuds #127 3 years ago

    @ morne
    "@ Ronuds - Ahh funny, you're not even reading my posts. Please go back and point out where I said anything about the loudness of the 360. Haven't found it have you? Cause, I never said that. Nice try though."

    Well, I'M SORRY...I'm trying to respond to 10 people all trashing the 360 for what is so far one game that might be different because of disc capacity. Why did you even mention about your roommate having a 360 then because, looking back, it seemingly had nothing to do with the conversation. No need to be so uppity about it, anyway.

    Either way, I think you're being a bit paranoid on how the future of game development is going to play out. It was the same regarding the PS2 and XBOX in regards to hardware and I don't think XBOX owners are complaining much about the games they ended up with. The exclusives will play to the strengths of each console and the multi-plats will be designed with both in mind, playing to both strengths and weaknesses to accomodate the other. That's how its always been and we're somehow still alive today to talk about it.

  • Bilbo_bobbins #128 3 years ago

    You got to face it. The PS3 is better in all aspects really. Why do you think M$ keep reducing the price of their console?

    I know why, cuz they can't sell them because they are loud, expensive for online play, and easily breakable. The PS3 is the future which is why they are outselling them. New games like LBP, Kill Zone 2, COD6, God of War, PES09 and more....

    If the devs concentrated on working with the PS3 instead of gaining a quick buck, then the games would be fantastic, something the Xbox couldn't take (ie. LBP)

  • Thunderbolt #129 3 years ago

    Bilbo_bobbins,

    'You got to face it. The PS3 is better in all aspects really. Why do you think M$ keep reducing the price of their console? '

    Its called market penetration and as the 360 has the highest attach rate of all the consoles, MS will recover any hardware losses through software sales. Simple economics really.

  • ronuds #130 3 years ago

    I hope you guys realize that the more idiotic nonsense you spout, the worse you make the PS3 and PS3 owners all around look? I've heard a few people say in the past that one of the reasons they have no interest in the PS3 is because of comments just like the ones here.

    I'm just going to sit back now and watch the meltdown continue and watch you make jackasses of yourselves because it surely is a laugh riot. Maybe you believe the crap you're spewing, but nobody else with half a brain does.

    I suppose I'm the fool for arguing with you in the 1st place!

    /coat

  • Rash' #131 3 years ago

    Thunderbolt!, No simple economics is the 360 was either selling the same or being beaten in sales by a console nearly twice it's price. That's the simple economical reason why the price for 360 has dropped for a second time in 6 months.

  • Rash' #132 3 years ago

    ronuds, And yet jackasses like you console yourselves with software for a hardware that wouldn't pass any quality control measures.
    Edited by 1 at 17/09/08 @ 17:12

  • Inflatable #133 3 years ago

    So the games comes on 2 DVD's, big deal.. Just like on PC you will be able to install it on your harddrive after the next Xbox 360 dashboard update.. Only restriction then is the ammount of space you have free on that harddrive..

    Atm there's only very few games that need more then 1 DVD, and by the time there will be a lot more games that require it I think MS will already have announced their next-gen Xbox that will most likely come with a Blu-ray drive (or something better if that's available by then)..

  • Rash' #134 3 years ago

    LOL!

    That was fun. Naughty, yes, but fun nonetheless. They had it coming with their "PS3 is crap, hasn't got the games, Blu-ray crap, HDD not needed" bull.

  • Ryze #135 3 years ago

    Here come the dickhead Rash' comments...

    As long as DVD 1 can be installed to HDD and DVD 2 left in the DVD drive then there's no problem.

    Same with any 3 DVD games: let me install DVDs 1&2, and play with DVD 3 in the drive and I'm fine.

    The game will still turn out better than the P$£ version.

  • Rash' #136 3 years ago

    Ryze, Oh! "Dickhead". Way to site precedence.
    Edited by 1 at 17/09/08 @ 17:23

  • Ryze #137 3 years ago

    ^ yeah bollocks.

  • Mornelithe #138 3 years ago

    @ Ronuds - What you're failing to understand, regarding my arguments, or just not acknowledging, is that this merely represents the beginning. The beginning of a time where the capacity on the 360, is becoming an impediment to developers. And the beginning (and hopefully the end), of developers changing their ultimate vision of their creation, in order to bring it to all. We've seen many developers choose to push 360/PC games, leaving the PS3 out. Is it now unacceptable to expect the return, when hardware limitations start to occur? I personally, don't believe so. It's not the PS3 or PC communities fault that MS failed to plan for a future w/o HD-DVD, additionally, it's also not our fault that MS chose not to make HDD's standard in all 360's. Both companies failed to produce a machine with adequate RAM, imo, however, Sony chose to include additional hardware support to take some of the burden off the RAM (HDD, BluRay etc..).


    Morne

  • Ryze #139 3 years ago

    Yes - shite talking fanboy dickhead.

    Clear as day.

  • Rash' #140 3 years ago

    Ryze, Yeah, I remember you. You're the one with a screw loose right?

    Well I don't have patience for your shit, moron.

  • Ryze #141 3 years ago

    @Mornelithe

    Wrong.

    As mentioned just previously:

    As long as DVD 1 can be installed to HDD and DVD 2 left in the DVD drive then there's no problem.

    Same with any 3 DVD games: let me install DVDs 1&2, and play with DVD 3 in the drive and I'm fine.

    The game will still turn out better than the P$£ version.

    The 360 is just about to get an update that enables an optional install for ANY game.

    Problem solved.

  • Ryze #142 3 years ago

    /yawn...

  • IronCladChicken #143 3 years ago

    So... Is this Rage game any good then?
    Seems a shame to get so heated about which platform it will play best on when it may turnout to be shoveware?

    &.. Are ID actually being complimentary about the PC?!?!

  • Rash' #144 3 years ago

    Ryze, Except it's not problem solved, moron, as HDD isn't standard on all 360's so you potentially are narrowing your returns margin by following that route.

  • Mornelithe #145 3 years ago

    @ Ryze - Unfortunately, while that may work for SOME 360 owners. Not all 360's have HDD's, therefore, it screws part of the userbase. Beyond that, I wasn't talking to you, I'm discussing something with Ronuds, who's actually capable of carrying on an adult conversation w/o resorting to name calling.


    Morne
    Edited by 1 at 17/09/08 @ 17:31

  • Ryze #146 3 years ago

    Funny how people with 'a screw loose' can do quite well for themselves as technicians in the world of Premiership Football these days...

    Someone would have to be mad to act upon the trash that comes from Rash'. I'd love to see the results of some of your decision making.

  • Ryze #147 3 years ago

    He he.. little man... you just don't know...

    Anyone for whom disc swapping is a problem will buy or own an HDD. The console with the HDD costs a fraction ofthe cost of a PS3.

    Hilarious how people just don't want to respond when they know their argument is worthless.
    Edited by 1 at 17/09/08 @ 17:33

  • Rash' #148 3 years ago

    Ryze, Was that a rational point without insult? O_o

  • Rash' #149 3 years ago

    lavalant, Erm, fail to see how it's yet to prove itself when we're on a thread that validates it's inclusion in the first place?

  • Ryze #150 3 years ago

    @Rash'

    Er... no - I actually forgot to capitalise the 'R' when I typed 'tRash''

  • Rash' #151 3 years ago

    Ryze, There's nothing to respond to. The prices have dropped to compete for a mainstream market. Who's going to education that market the difference between HDD and no HDD? That's the point. Not having a HD format couple with the fact there is no standard HDD mean's you potential divided your consumer market into two, which games marker don't like as they then have to make the game usually for the lowest common denominator.

    ^^^ Cute.
    Edited by 1 at 17/09/08 @ 17:39

  • Ryze #152 3 years ago

    'Ryze, Except it's not problem solved, moron, as HDD isn't standard on all 360's so you potentially are narrowing your returns margin by following that route.'

    Er.. wrong again, ignoramus. Those withou HDDs will just... swap discs...

    Sorry man, you've just got bad DNA.

  • Rash' #153 3 years ago

    You're putting me to sleep with your school boy bunter.

  • Ryze #154 3 years ago

    Wrong again - as we're not talking about caching - we're talking about installing.

    You either install, or swap. If you don't pay for a HDD, then you swap.

    If you do - you install.

    Simple...enough...for...you...?

  • Rash' #155 3 years ago

    lavalant, Yeah, but the HDD is standard on all systems.

  • Rash' #156 3 years ago

    Ryze, Tell that to Arcade owners who couldn't play Burnout online...
    Edited by 1 at 17/09/08 @ 17:42

  • Rash' #157 3 years ago

    Ryze and lavalant, the point is simple the system is technically limited because of a lack of standard features and HD format. You can see that or you can't. It's plain to see which you are.

  • Mornelithe #158 3 years ago

    @ Ryze - Sigh, you're still missing the point. For you, it may seem that clear cut and easy, however, for developers trying to make a game, they now have to worry about MS' additional royalty costs for multiple discs...whether a potential buyer has an HDD, whether they do not, etc... All for ONE console.

    Whereas, with the PS3 or PC, it doesn't matter how much information needs to go to HDD. The space is there on both the HDD and the disc(s). As with PC's, developers don't need MS' say-so to launch on multiple discs. And with BR, they've got at least 50g of data storage on Disc.


    Morne

  • Rash' #159 3 years ago

    lavalant, You're in a thread that answers that question...

  • ronuds #160 3 years ago

    @ Morne

    I understand what you're saying, but I believe you're exaggerating the issue. Disc space is not the only factor between great and mediocre games. When a developer specs out a game they take all platforms into account, so they're already well aware of how much space they have to work with and we've yet to run into a situation where either version is gimped because of the other consoles limitations. If anything, ALL games are gimped due to the inherent limitations of consoles themselves - I'm sure devs can do much better than they are today if given the hardware.

    I suppose my ultimate point is: games, for either the 360 or PS3, have yet to suffer due to available space. We've had maybe one of the greatest generation of gaming ever and I don't see that changing simply because the PS3 has a BD player and the 360 doesn't. If a developer truly wants to create a game that takes full advantage of BD, then they'll make the game a PS3 exclusive. However, to my understanding, even PS3 exclusives have yet to fully realize or take advantage of BD's capacity. Yeah, they brag about using all 50gb's, but what does the content really consist of? A few extra languages or in LBP's case, some tutorials? The fact of the matter is, whether it's 5 or 50gb's the game isn't going to be any better or worse because the hardware on both ends is only capable of so much. So I think for the rest of this generation we'll continue having the best games we've ever seen (as we have so far) and 99% of those will have no use for a BD disc. Blu-ray hasn't changed gaming at all, it's simply allowed developers to put more content on a disc.

  • Ryze #161 3 years ago


    /sigh

    40Gb is the capacity on most PS3s - with mandatory installs. After this game is released, many people will be in a constant cycle of deleting and reinstalling games (taking up to 20 mins) - despite paying £300+ for the console.

    This is worse than a disc swap.

    There are no mandatory installs on the 360. Just optional.

    Now - what should M$ have done? Incorporated HD DVD?!? With the sales of the 360 as they are - it'd have only killed off Blu Ray, and many didn't want that - especially yourselves.

    Come on now! You can do better than that!

    Right?

    No?

    Shame.

  • Ryze #162 3 years ago

    So the royalties are the problem now?

  • Ryze #163 3 years ago

    @Rash'

    If the drive didn't ramp up the cost of the console, and wasn't crippled with slow access and seek times, then you'd have a point.

    While the PS3 has the specs that it currently has - with mandatory installs due to slow access times and 256Mb main memory, then you don't have a leg to stand on.

    Especially when games are looking rougher on the hardware and lacking online features.

    Sorry!

  • Rash' #164 3 years ago

    Let's see shall we?
    Edited by 1 at 17/09/08 @ 17:56

  • Mornelithe #165 3 years ago

    @ Lavalant - Obviously BR is a benefit, otherwise this thread wouldn't exist. Additionally, HD-DVD wouldn't have tanked, and your HD-DVD drives wouldn't be a nice little relics of the past. You say it's a 'slow' read speed, however, it's actually the same or better than DVD read speeds. There's just more information there...about 10 times more information. So naturally, it takes a bit longer than a DVD drive to read.

    BR Benefit = Bigger games, better textures, more content

    No BR Drive = Multiple discs, and gimped games.

    By the way, installing to an HDD, is far far better than overusing your optical drive, which will naturally fail over time. And since our optical drive actually has a secondary purpose...you know, watching movies in 1080p. We prefer to keep ours as mint as possible.


    Morne

  • Mornelithe #166 3 years ago

    @ Ryze - Haven't you been reading what the developer said? Did you even read it? They stated it had to be put on 2 discs, because of the costs of putting it on a 3rd. Btw, my launch 60g, has a 320g HDD in it. Took about 5 minutes of my life to swap them out. Oh the horror!


    Morne

  • Ryze #167 3 years ago

    @Mornelithe

    Wrong again!

    Here's the best example.

    The Mega CD had access to 700Mb of data on it's revolutionary compact discs.

    The problem was that the Mega CD had hardly any RAM, and could only transfer data from the CDs at 1x (150kb/s).

    This meant that games were constantly loading, and therefore the experience of playign the console was often inferior to playing a plain old Megadrive with a 24Mbit (3Mb) cartridge, as the access times were much quicker.

    By the next generation, the Saturn's drive speed was much quicker and therefore loading times were not a problem.

    The 2x BD's seek and access times are SLOWER, regardless of the disc capacity.

    Go figure.

  • Ryze #168 3 years ago

    So the argument has now changed, and the royalties are the problem.

    I'm sure that M$ can be 'persuaded' by the right developer / publisher or title (GTA VC II) to sort that out.

    It happened with the following:

    Super Streetfighter II Turbo HD remix
    Castlevania

    etc...

  • Mornelithe #169 3 years ago

    @ Ryze - Btw, the 256M of main memory (XDR @ 3.2g) in the PS3 is 4.5x faster than the DDR3 @ 700MHZ that the 360 uses. It also has vastly less latency. That argument doesn't float.


    Morne

  • Mornelithe #170 3 years ago

    @ Lavalant - Ok, now I know you're full of it. Anyone who says the difference between 720p and 1080p is slight, is completely out of their minds, and or, needs to get their eyes checked. Considering I have a machine that plays both, and a TV and sound system to back it up. I know, whereas, you obviously, do not.



    Morne

  • Ryze #171 3 years ago

    The other problem with the Mega CD was that most of the GAME content of the time was designed around cartridges, so the CD was used for filler by lazy developers (ie, Video footage).

    Only every now and again would a game come along which really required anywhere near 700Mb, and most of these games couldn't run well on the Mega CD as it was underspecced and underpowered.

    Looks like the cost of the console all went on it's expensive new novelty disc drives, and this affected the ability of the manufaturers to reduce the price per unit manufactured.

    Again - go figure.

  • Ryze #172 3 years ago

    @Mornelithe

    Again - more nonsense from someone who knows no better.

    Stop copying and pasting from Wikipedia.

    An Optical drive and HDD are many times slower than RAM. Who talked about memory speeds, because they've not even had an impact while the PS3 can't even get the data off of the disk, or store it anywhere once it loads!

  • beastmaster #173 3 years ago

    Not bothered reading all the comments previous. But with the new dashboard update can't you just put them direct to the hard drive? So what's all the fuss about then?

    One more thing. More space on a BR does not make a better game. Look at that Factor 5 game on PS3 (Lair was it?). Games are going to get smaller (especially FPS games) as multiplayer seems to be where it's at. I think (but I hope not) that the days of epic games are coming to an end :-(
    Edited by 1 at 17/09/08 @ 18:18

  • Ryze #174 3 years ago

    /thread over

  • tnt_2008smum #175 3 years ago

    Jesus wept the Sony fuckwits are out in force today! Ok guys we get it you love your ps3s. Now for the love of god just chillout a bit!

    @ k109, Bilbo_bobbins and PrivateJoker

    How do you actually play your games when your ps3s are clearly lodged in your colons?

  • Ryze #176 3 years ago

    I've got tonnes of HD DVDs at £5 each and a much bigger library at 1/4 the price of most Blu ray player owners, I expect.

    I shall be ripping them all to Blu-Ray in 2010-11.
    Edited by 2 at 17/09/08 @ 18:18

  • Ryze #177 3 years ago

    *badooom tish*

    /chuckles

  • NakedSnake #178 3 years ago

    ADMIT IT THE BLU RAY IS SUPERIOR

    MOAR 50 GB GAMES PLZ K THX

    HD DVD LOL GTFO

  • Ryze #179 3 years ago

    LOL

  • peak_performance #180 3 years ago

    @kj66246

    "Sorry, but those who don't like the "Lazy Dev" Comments...

    He is implying himself that he is a little lazy... He Said - "You could design a game where the PS3 would be the superior platform, but you'd have to go out of your way to do it."

    "You'd have to go out of your way"... Well is that not kind of his and his teams Job to ensure a decent game is released. "


    He DOES go out of the way for Id Tech 5, please don't spout stupid ridiculous claims. Id Tech 5 promises an equal experience on all platforms: PC (though they haven't explained what better hardware will get you), Mac, 360 and PS3 - judging from what has been seen in live demonstrations this has also been accomplished. Actually, the PS3 version will have slightly better overall graphics in Rage as per comments that have been made, even though the lead developing platform is the 360.

    What he said in that quote is probably still what he thinks (and something that has been confirmed by other developers over the years), that the PS3 has better absolute peak performance but results generally ARE easier to achieve with the 360:s hardware.
    Edited by 1 at 17/09/08 @ 18:27

  • drumbaby #181 3 years ago

    Yep, I.D. clearly say it's the 360's fault....And Ryze blithers on and on, and expects us to take him seriously.

    Classic :))

  • Ryze #182 3 years ago

    Yep - he just wont stop blithering his nonsense, that Ryze fella...

    oh wait?!

  • KayJay #183 3 years ago

    peak_performance wrote: "please don't spout stupid ridiculous claims."

    Im not claiming anything. I just quoted what he said.

    Again he said "You'd have to go out of your way". Now that to me just seems like a silly thing to say. If you want something to excel and exceed then you are going to have to go out of you way. If you dont then what are you going to get...!

    Now just to be clear I am not claiming anything here, I am just quoting and commenting on what he said.

  • ParanoidZombie #184 3 years ago

    200+ posts on the burning issue of disc-swapping in a game that will be released in 2010... Another slow news day, I guess.

  • KayJay #185 3 years ago

    Yeah Yeah nice one ParanoidZombie...
    I think we are debating the pro and cons of DVD & BluRay and if there are in fact any.

    Its going quite well actually.

  • Mornelithe #186 3 years ago

    Yeah, the news is ridiculously slow today. Nothing new since noon. It sucks.



    Morne

  • Mornelithe #187 3 years ago

    @ EvilFoxhound - And a crappy sequel banned in several countries? ;)


    Morne

  • mkreku #188 3 years ago

    I tried a PS3 for the first time at my own house last night. On my 1080p tv. I must say I came away impressed, even though I had to wait appr. 20 minutes before I could access the online store (it had to update itself). I tried GTA4 (five minute install?!) and Uncharted and they both looked absolutely fantastic. The framerate on GTA4 was inconsistent (which it has always been in GTA so I wasn't bothered), but Uncharted was smooth as silk, except for some tearing issues when the screen was full of smoke.

    Also, I now know how full of shit people are who claim the PS3 is as loud as the Xbox 360. Because the PS3 wasn't mine (a friend won it in a competition, but he doesn't own a HDtv), we set it up on a table in the middle of my living room.. and we couldn't even hear it! When I had my head real close to it I could hear small ticks from when the harddrive was working, nothing else.

    Since I'm an Xbox/PS2 man myself and my friend owns a Wii, we didn't really know what to expect, but we both came away impressed. And why do people say the online sucks? All we had to do was create an online account (done via the console) and we were in! Fast and slick and seamless. I was amazed at how easy everything was. Just connect three cables and 30 minutes later we were jumping in and out of online games, the online store and between games.

    And I think Sony made the right choice by including the Blu-Ray. Watch a movie in 1080p before claiming there's no difference between it and 720p.

  • peak_performance #189 3 years ago

    Well, kj66246, you did imply that he "implied that he was lazy" with the quote, which taken in context with what he does with Id Tech 5 really shouldn't even be brought up - few developers seem to go to such lengths as Id with their tech to let all gamers have the same game.

    I will admit that I jumped on your comment a bit more than necessary, it's just that this whole thread seems to be full with people claiming Carmack of all people to be a lazy and bad programmer, not willing to catch up with modern day technology just because he says some comment about new difficulties to overcome. Your comment was the one quoted for all such dravel, which I apologize for :p

    And yeah, trebell, I knew that already, it was just a point I wanted to make. Fanboys accuse Carmack and Id of favorising one console (mostly the 360) over the other all the time, while they have never cared about choosing sides - that was an example of that :p

  • Les #190 3 years ago

    @ trebell

    Good link and much funnier than the average EG article. I'm not a big fan of lowest common denominator games though I have to admit Call of Duty 4 turned out good. Together with the Orange Box (which reminds me that I still haven't played Portal or TF2) the only lowest common denominator games that I got.

  • hugejeans #191 3 years ago

    Have only read the last page of comments.So be nice.

    But will you soon have the option to load the entire game to hard drives on the 360.Okay if you have the 20GB one you might have a problem but those with bigger drives should be okay,so 360 owners can save there optical drives for those things called DVDs.

    Anyway Rage might turn out to be one giant tech demo with gameplay thrown in at the end.

  • Les #192 3 years ago

    "And why do people say the online sucks?"

    Because it's different from Live. I don't play much online (the occasional Warhawk game and that's it, so probably not statistically relevant) but when I do it works fine. If it hadn't been free, I would have never given it a try as I know I won't make use of it often.

    "Watch a movie in 1080p before claiming there's no difference between it and 720p."

    Yeah, 1080p looks great. Though TBH it doesn't make a movie any more enjoyable. But it is a good stimulus to re-watch older movies.

  • jjolley #193 3 years ago

    It's interesting that some games require huge installs while others don't/ An example from my own library is Tiger Woods 09 Vs TNA Impact. Now, I understand that TNA is badly coded from the graphics side but as a blind person that doesn't concern me all that much. We own both an Xbox 360 and PS3 and my partner, who is sighted actually loves Viva Pinata TIP but even she was quite irritated at waiting 20 minutes for Impact to install. Is this normal for games these days then on PS3?

  • Mornelithe #194 3 years ago

    @ Les - I also prefer the highest definition possible when watching Nature programs. Ala Planet Earth. That kind of thing. Even though all of Planet Earth wasn't filmed in 1080p, the parts that were are clearly noticeable, and absolutely breathtaking.


    Morne

  • ThePissartist #195 3 years ago

    Wow, this got heated.

    Xbox 360 is great - it's the console that I've had the most enjoyment out of any ever.

    PS3 I'm fairly sure is equally great, BR is fantastic (1080p movies!) and it definitely benefits the occasional game.

    Both consoles are awesome. If we all had the time and money; I reckon we'd all get both if and be satisified. Some games are better on one machine, some games look better on the other. It's really as simple as that.

  • Zaltan #196 3 years ago

    http://ww w.shacknews.com/laryn.x?story=5...

    Its bound to look loads better on PC than either console aswell.
    Edited by 1 at 17/09/08 @ 20:49

  • klem578 #197 3 years ago

    LOOK MUM, MY TOY IS BETTER THAN THE OTHER KID'S !

    Seriously lads, some people in here are either below the age of 17 or amazingly "slow".

    I own everything besides a Wii, but i can't stand this friggin' Sony propaganda any more, it feels like some peeps are on Sony's payroll and/or have shares...

    No 20 mins for installs?Maybe not 20 but 18 yes - that was the installation time for DMC4 gents.

    WHEN Blu ray will become a necessity for games, i'm going to be the 1st one in here to dance the happy dance,up 'till now i haven't seen (yet) something that couldn't be achieved on the X360 due to "low" disc storage.You know what's really funny?That games like rage and Far Cry 2 will still run better on the 360 - like most multiplatform releases, you have to accept that,it's the way things have worked up until now.

    As another gentleman stated each console has its caps& restrictions,

    Rash & Mornelithe ,why are you so obsessed chaps?Why try to prove something that can't be proven yet?
    Maybe it's because you only have a PS3, hence why all the zeal...

    Seriously, you like your beloved PS3 that much?well, good for you guys no need to bust everybody else's balls though - pardon my French...

    Do you seriously still fight over which console is the best ffs?

    Do you have an X360?Fine, you can play Mass Effect,GOW1&2,Fable etc.
    Do you have a PS3? Fine, you can play LBP,MGS4,GOW etc.

    Grow up chaps for feck's sake, just enjoy the games ,at the same time though, don't try to make statements using non-existing facts...

    Fact : The 360 has the best game library for now.
    Fact : Most of the multiplat. releases run better on the 360.
    Fact : Yes, the 360 is cheaper.
    Fact : there's no evidence that Ps3 games CAN'T be ported over the 360 due to "inferior" hardware.
    Fact : Xbox live is years ahead of psn.

    Fact : The PS3 has BRD that may in the future prove indeed usefull for games.
    Fact : Yes, the PS3 has been more reliable compared to the 360.
    Fact: The Ps3 is "somewhat" better as a media center.
    Fact : It has uncharted and it's "Silent" (yeah,i know...)

    See ?







    Edited by 1 at 17/09/08 @ 20:53

  • Ryze #198 3 years ago

    @evilfoxhound

    Devil May Cry 4

  • JoeNut #199 3 years ago

    and at least we start seeing the advantages of Blu.

  • Les #200 3 years ago

    "Even though all of Planet Earth wasn't filmed in 1080p, the parts that were are clearly noticeable, and absolutely breathtaking."

    Love Planet Earth as well. Movies/series that put more emphasis than normal on the visuals benefit the most from the increased resolution (and better compression, I guess about as important). Computer generated animation looks astonishing as well.

  • PrivateJoker #201 3 years ago

    Taken from CNET last year, all i can say is the PS3 is still maturing while the xbox is getting a free bus pass:

    When final specs were released for the Xbox 360 and the PlayStation 3, not surprisingly, there was a big debate over which system was technically more powerful. The 360 uses more off-the-shelf PC components, while the PlayStation 3's 3.2GHz Cell processor was built from the ground up just for the PS3. It consists of a single PowerPC-based core with seven synergistic processing units and is the result of a joint effort between IBM, Sony, and Toshiba, which is ironic, considering that Sony and Toshiba are in a death match over Blu-ray and HD DVD.

    The key thing to know about the Cell is that it has the juice to run a new class of gameplay physics that will allow developers to create spectacular effects and eventually provide a whole new depth of realism to games. Paired with PlayStation 3's RSX Reality Synthesizer graphics-processing unit, a gargantuan 550MHz, 300-million-transistor graphics chip based on Nvidia's GeForce 7800 GTX graphics technology, and you're looking at a very high-end PC. The only problem, of course, is that it'll take developers years to learn to take full advantage of all that processing power and truly deliver on the graphical promise of the system. However, an entire year has passed since the release of the PlayStation 3, and the general consensus seems to agree that this level of sophistication has yet to be tapped.

    Say what you will about increasing development times and rising costs for producing video games, but Blu-ray's 25GB to 50GB storage capacity--as opposed to 8.5GB for the Xbox 360's DVD drive--does give developers the chance to create huge games--although this conflict has yet to directly affect the release of any game. On the contrary, Rockstar Games claims that the complicated programming involved with Grand Theft Auto IV on the PlayStation 3 is what actually delayed the game's multiplatform release into 2008.

    At the end of the day, as Microsoft learned, you can tout all the power you want, but if you can't keep your system cool--and fairly quiet--you're going to have some serious problems on your hands. What's impressive about this PS3, in fact, is that with all this power under the hood, the system runs as quietly as it does. After running for several hours straight, we found that we could still place a hand over the back of the unit and not get scorched--the system runs pretty warm, but not blazingly hot. Meanwhile, the Xbox 360 cooling fan and DVD drive are comparatively far noisier, sometimes to the point of distraction. And the PS3 hasn't had any widespread reliability problems, unlike the "red ring of death" problem that continues to dog the 360. That console's high failure rate--at least on models produced early on in its life cycle--has made for customer service headaches (and a billion dollar liability for Microsoft) as frustrated Xbox gamers exchange dead consoles.

    @klem578 "Fact : Xbox live is years ahead of psn"

    Not any more mate, i had about ten games from Xbla over 3 years, ive got 20 now on PS3 in just 6months. PSN online is smooth and free.

    PS: Got PlayTV today and its awesome if anyone cares, smart interface etc, gonna start to fill that 250gb hdd now ;)

  • Ryze #202 3 years ago

    ^Aaaaaahhhh, check out this cut/paste fanboy tosser up there!

    @Les

    I may grab it on HD DVD for cheap.
    Edited by 1 at 17/09/08 @ 21:16

  • tnt_2008smum #203 3 years ago

    @PrivateJoker

    FFS do you work for Sony or something? you spout so much pro sony PR bullshite its unreal!!

  • NakedSnake #204 3 years ago

    LOOK AT THE END OF THE DAY

    XBOX AND HD DVD AINT UP TO THE JOB MATE

    first its 2 discs then what---- 5 discs??




    PS3 IS THE NEXT GENERATION OF CONSOLES

  • Yaz #205 3 years ago

    PrivateJoker wrote: "Not any more mate, i had about ten games from Xbla over 3 years".

    Over 3 years? To be more accurate, yesterday you said you had an XBox 360 for 3.5 years.

    Well, the last time I checked, the 360 was released in November 2005, which is 2 years and 10 months ago.

    Interesting. ;)

  • muzzer77 #206 3 years ago

    So it does not matter as it will be the same on all versions. But they had to use the lowest spec to make the game, that's the 360. The fact a game has to be designed to account for disc space is not next gen and highlights the limitations Microsoft's hardware will have on games in the next couple of years.

  • PrivateJoker #207 3 years ago

    @Yaz-
    I dont remember the dates and days i was guessing, i sold my original xbox crystal ltd edition and got 360, guessed it was about 3 1/2 yrs ago as i remember where i worked back then and got it while i was there but I was there 2002 -2006 so sue me for forgetting the dates and as for xbla comment of 3 yrs who cares thats just pedantic, next time just for you, i'll keep a frickin' diary of everything i buy.

    And as for Ryze, of course i cut and pasted it tosser, why, didn't you like reading an actual factual piece of tech information for once

  • Yaz #208 3 years ago

    @PrivateJoker

    You seem a little overly defensive there.

    Lighten up, your life doesn't depend on it. :)

  • PrivateJoker #209 3 years ago

    Yaz-
    true true, just clarifying is all :)

  • Ryze #210 3 years ago

    @muzzer77

    The 360 version being on 2 DVDs means that it has 15Gb of space to play with - like a single layer HD DVD.

    How big, and on which optical disc format would the PC version be, regardless of the 360 if it didn't exist?

  • Ryze #211 3 years ago

    Factual piece of tech information

    HA!

    I like baiting the retards. It's fun.

  • Yaz #212 3 years ago

    @PrivateJoker - Ok mate. :)


    Anyway guys, I'm sure the following link is of interest to all given the topic;

    id: Rage Not Cut Because of Xbox 360 Limits:

    http://ww w.shacknews.com/onearticle.x/54780

  • PrivateJoker #213 3 years ago

    Ok Ryze here's one just for you:

    The RROD 360 full circle:

    Microsoft > Create Xbox360>Huge hardware failures infamously tagged as the red ring of death> Which could be also used as a euphemism for a homo with aids who's been bummed violently> which just happens to be the demographic of the average 360 owner> Created by " we only get 3rd party exclusives by paying millions for them" Microsoft.
    Full circle.
    You aint baiting me mate, ive been lol at these forums for ages and only recently joined for the socom beta and thought it'd be a piece off piss to stir things up. The only thing i take seriously is Chelsea f.c. the names joker for fu** sake

  • Ace_McCloud #214 3 years ago

    People still arguing about 360 and PS3? Wtf? I thought we'd all decided: 360 is the best for games this gen. PS3 is a cheap Blu-Ray player. Wii has converted the casuals. And Rock Band is too expensive.

    ...and PrivateJoker is a twat: What's with the needlessly homophobic comment? Bell end.
    Edited by 1 at 17/09/08 @ 23:34

  • Ryze #215 3 years ago

    ...which shows you don't know much about the past 12 months in the 360s lifespan.

    I'm glad a got mine last Dec...

  • PrivateJoker #216 3 years ago

    @ ace, oh dear, dangled the carrot and you took a big bite, that comment was just for ryze if you'd read it properly and wasn't to be taken seriously, grow up, watch some roy chubby brown(lol) or bill hicks, chalk and cheese mind you, nothing really matters does it especially when its the pretentious jabberings of us gamers.

  • smelly #217 3 years ago

    Does anyone else get depressed when seeing threads like these?

    But like watching a car accident - you cant help yourself?

  • smelly #218 3 years ago

    But "just for kicks"

    .. i'd much rather have the "smaller' disc space of the 360.. and not have to do all the installation which comes with the ps3 thanks to its slow as feck drive ;-)

  • toy_brain #219 3 years ago

    "Does anyone else get depressed when seeing threads like these?
    But like watching a car accident - you cant help yourself?"

    Oh I do love a good flame-fest..... that is until you get the 30th idiot saying "but what about the PC version? wouldnt that have to fit on a DVD too", even though its been explained at least 4 times.
    /Facepalms
    /Dispairs for humanity.

  • Beek4257 #220 3 years ago

    @evilfoxhound

    And where's Blig_merk? Retired?
    Not that I actually miss him/her, mind...

  • Ryze #221 3 years ago

    @toy_brain

    Duh! Yes, compression and installs - so you'd expect the installed game data to use more than15Gb?

    Bear in mind that the 360 version will be compressed on the DVD also.

  • Ace_McCloud #222 3 years ago

    @Privatejoker:

    I think Roy Chubby Brown is a biggotted arsehole as well.

    Looking back at your previous posts there's nothing to suggest you're being ironic or sarcastic, it's a joke that's completely irrelevant - you could've compared RROD to a strong curry or something for the same effect. Just because you label something a joke doesn't suddenly make it immune from being offensive.

    Baiting or not you're still a dickhead.

  • Ryze #223 3 years ago

    Everyone here also seems to be forgetting that there's such thing as a double sided, dual layer DVD.

    If there's a massive problem with putting 2 DVDs in one case, then why not use one double sided, dual layer disc.

    The optional installs will be here in a couple of months at the latest.

  • Calgon #224 3 years ago

    Do you really think MS would mind givinga few royalty breaks for the big important games that need more than 1 disk?

    Im pretty sure MS has already offered a deal on that because they know their console can do anything the PS3 can and thensome... why let Sony get away with their usual hypemongerin to try and sell their overrated hardware without taking losses?

    3 Disks or even more wouldnt be a problem then, unless they dont like the manufacturing costs.

  • Calgon #225 3 years ago

    I like how the PS3 fanboys are missquoting Carmack in the same way EG did... we already knew the PS3s specs were higher on paper and that was the RAW flops figure(PS3 actually loses out to 360 in alot of areas too even on paper)... he also said it was purely theoretical and theres a big difference between that and what you get in real world performance sometimes(as alot of devs are finding with the PS3 struggling to match 360).

    If there is any reason the PS3 version turns out slightly more detailed it wont be the hardware(Ram and GPUs play an equally important role and everyone knows 360 has the technical edge there), it will be the fact that they had more storage space to play with for the content(ie didnt have to compress as much which would mean sacrificing quality slightly) what we have are people jumping on the tiniest quotes to pretend Carmack declared PS3 the superior hardware in realworld performance, he was talking theoretical and he's always said the difference would be marginal.

    It's his first time developing on both consoles like this, its going to be interesting to hear his final thoughts after completion on working with the two consoles. You know he will tell us all about it, so its going to be amusing if he makes some of these "PS3 is in another league to 360" fools(which is nowhere near what he's said... or any other dev worth their salt infact the popular opinion amoung the dev community is that they are very evenly matched compared to past generations of consoles) look complete fools when he talks on realworld performance, ie what he beleives is actually acheivable after working on them(theoretical is just that... realworld performance is the end results).

    After 2 years(much more than that if your a dev *3-4?*... since they started Deving for PS3 around the same time 360 devs did) of seeing what both of these machines can do, we've seen games already using 5-6 spes(ie full SPE utilisation) theres no denying that all points to 360 more than holding its own as many said it would(and theres some idiots pretending no dev has used over 10-20% of Cells potential? Well thats Sonyfanboys for you, quite amusing actually to watch them talk so much garbage and obviously strongly beleive in such obvious nonsence.).

    Before anyone repeats that tired old line that Sony brought to the gaming world last gen, the 360 has untapped potential too, do you think Carmack is going to bother with the 360VMX units much on such a big Multi-platform game/engine? I dont given that its apparently even more complicated/difficult than coding for the SPEs and porting code to and from the 360 would then naturally be more complicated, I wouldnt expect it... OMG devs should just forget the "crappy overhyped PS3" and let 360 realise its full potential :/ *sarcasm*
    Edited by 2 at 18/09/08 @ 19:10

  • mkreku #226 3 years ago

    I have no idea what you're on about, Calgon. You basically wrote an essay in defence of something noone's really claimed..?

    I don't think anyone here is saying the PS3 is stronger than the Xbox 360. But the fact remains that one Blu Ray disc can contain more (albeit slower) data than five or six dual layer DVD's. And in this case (and I'm pretty sure more to come in the future) two DVD's weren't enough, thus the Blu Ray has an advantage. Big deal? Not really.

  • Calgon #227 3 years ago

    mkreku that was already addressed in my first post here, it was none news really; BluRay offers more space we all knew that, we also knew the PS3s drive is slower for the most part too and that mandatory HDD installs are likley.

    Pay closer attention though and maybe you'll see some posts were trying to say exactly what I addressed in that second post, on more than one of the previous pages(perhaps you have alot of people on ignore?). There were the usual deliberate misquotes and the Sony PR cut and paste type arguements. Not a big deal just thought Id quickly go through it incase anyone is confused.
    Edited by 2 at 18/09/08 @ 19:20

  • patchbox360 #228 3 years ago

    Rage?!

  • Mordaan #229 3 years ago

    The design of the PS3 sucks. hardcore.

  • ChuckNorris #230 3 years ago

    wow, thats a lot of comments. People need to relax.

  • Ryze #231 3 years ago

    Another idea is for M$ to allow disc 2 or 3 to be placed in the 360 HD DVD player optionally.

    Tonnes of people picked one up for cheap, and I'd be surprised if the DVD read speed has been crippled just because the drive isn't used for gaming. USB2 is 480Mbps, so the data transfer speed here's not a problem either.

    There are plenty of options. Should M$ have chosen BluRay? In 2005? 2006? No.

  • Ryze #232 3 years ago

    Mandatory HDDs, as desirable as they are, are what lost M$ so much money last gen with the Xbox, as they keep the cost of the console high.

    What I want to see more is games that intelligently cache to the HDD when it's present, or games that have a special / limited / metal tin case edition with a second install DVD containing all of those high-res textures that PS3 owners haven't even seen yet due to having a lack of RAM and a slow BD in their console.

    Massive 2 and 3 DVD games can also be designed to use the low res textures when running from the DVD, but the high-res when installed to HDD. It's really not impossible for a talented team to do this.