Race Driver: GRID Comments by Oli Welsh

/cross off 'To Buy' list.

Oh well.

Note: *If* it's as good as PGR4 however, will pick this up. Just disappointed they've chosen to go down this route with the series.

/makes addition to 'to buy' list.

hurrah!

Project go team!

I thought that was LittleBigPlanet.

So it's not Toca. It's something else. But still, looks good!

/sheds a tear for PGR4's almost completely ignored status as a classic racer

Surely

Project got 'em! would sound most like Project Gotham.

PGR4 is the best racer yet made, so any comparisons to that are most favourable ;-)
/Awaits Forza/GT peeps to explain why i am wrong...

This has peaked my interest. PGR4's handling model and graphics with better AI and damage sounds like a winner to me.

TOCA2 was pretty wonderful, particularly the touring car (German) stuff. Real edge of your seat racing in those series. I hope that GRID can replicate this, even if it's changed focus a bit.

"Aw, come on, finish the race! Noone likes a quitter!"

"Traditionally developers do one of two things - go super-simmy and involve things most gamers don't understand, like clutch kicks... or the absolute opposite end of the spectrum where you almost seem to have a completely different physics engine for your drift. We've done neither of those things"

I heard this before, but this time i really want to see it done properly!

I just hope you have more control over what sort of series you get enrolled into than previous race driver games. I particularly hated the truck and ice racing, so they pretty much ruined what was otherwise an excellent game for me. Here hoping that they make sure that if you decide you really don't like racing lumbering american muscle cars, or don't like drift racing, you have the choices in your career that mean you don't have to.

Other than that I'm still looking forward to it, because as the article says, few developers get the feeling of racing against a bunch of other cars around a track, nailed down quite so well as codemasters.

Oh, and I loved TOCA 2's online rankings system. I really thought it was amazing.

"Traditionally developers do one of two things - go super-simmy and involve things most gamers don't understand, like clutch kicks... or the absolute opposite end of the spectrum where you almost seem to have a completely different physics engine for your drift. We've done neither of those things"

So what are these alledged games with clutch kicks etc, and is there a controller to match?

"PGR4 is the best racer yet made, so any comparisons to that are most favourable ;-)
/Awaits Forza/GT peeps to explain why i am wrong..."

Because apples aren't better than oranges, nor vice-versa. (I'm a Forza guy, but I know it's a subjective thing. Besides, I own and enjoy them both. Each has its strengths and weaknesses IMO.)

Split screen 2-player action on the PC version please.

Getting rather excited by this, and Flatout Ultimate which is just around the corner.

The flashback thing could be quite nice infact.

Which format was this previewed on?

PGR4 is the best this-gen arcade racer of its kind (not counting Flatout and such), at least to me.

But I would like an arcade racer in vain of PGR4, where developers wouldn't bother with real cities and race tracks but instead give us very nice imaginary tracks in different settings, like those NFS' of old.

The Flashback feature has already been done (as the Tiger Effect!) in Milestone's racing games Squadra Corse Alfa Romeo and Evolution GT. You never ever ever used it.

I hate PGR (I've played 2 and 3). I hate the whole kudos thing, and would much rather have a genuine race around a real track than be poncing around with that drifting nonsense.

I'm sure at some point the game will force me into playing something I'd rather not, but as long as it feels right I'm still keen on getting my hands on this.

"Belgium's mighty Spa-Francorchamps, which is the greatest race track in the world"

Glad to see it's not just me :-)

DodgyPast: "Split screen 2-player action on the PC version please."

Don't be silly, PC gamers don't have IRL friends!

Or: Is there room on the desk for both keyboards?

You get the idea.

FFS this sounds awful.
TOCA used to be a viable alternative to Gran Turismo, now it seems to be a fully fledged arcade fest like NFS,

"... and there's a proper in-car view, too..."

Yeah, to that. Seems like it's fortunately - and finally - starting to become the expected standard for "pseudo sims" even on consoles. The lack of in-car view seriously detracts from the supposed sim experience of Forza 2.

I'm also extremely pleased to hear this game isn't making a move to city tracks only and production cars, but actually sticks to race cars and a number of real race tracks. Spa in particular has always been one of my favourites in PC sims like the GTR series.

Of course this could all still turn out to be a disaster if they mess up the physics model and the AI. Personally I hope the former ends up as really good mix of arcade and "sim light", just like PGR, and it sounds like that could very well happen (which isn't to say that they couldn't still end up getting the "feel" wrong, but at least I think they did a pretty good job with Dirt).
I loved the original Toca 2 myself, but I gotta admit that as my living room arrangement doesn't really allow me to hook up my Logitech G25 in front of my TV anyway, without some major redirection and new furniture purchases, I really don't mind sticking to pad friendly arcade racers on console, while occasionally getting my proper sim racing fix on my PC (unfortunately my recent furniture purchases aren't even too well suited for hooking up wheels and pedals in front of my PC monitor, so I think I'm in danger of ending up as a purebred arcade racer fan :p).

That one thing that sounds iffy to me is that rewind function.

"I hate PGR (I've played 2 and 3). I hate the whole kudos thing, and would much rather have a genuine race around a real track than be poncing around with that drifting nonsense."

You don't actually have to drift at all in the career mode in PGR4. You can still get more than enough kudos points by taking the proper racing line cleanly, which is also rewarded.
I really not fond of drifting myself either - aside from around the odd inviting corner now and then. I tried a few of the drift races in arcade mode and I couldn't figure out what the hell I was doing wrong as I couldn't even make it around the track in time on the lowest difficulty (drifting gives you extra time). I was flooring it between corners and then drifting around those.
I finally ended up downloading a couple of online ghosts and could barely believe my own eyes. These guys (with extremely high scores) were crawling around the track, sliding (drifting) from side to side like a snake as they inched forwards, piling on the bonus seconds, but taking probably somewhere between twenty to fifty times as long to get around the track as they would have with a regular straight lap.
That's not drifting, that's just plain silly - and apparantly by design.

So basically, if you want proper racing there's plenty of it to be had in PGR4 - in the career mode and perhaps half or so of the arcade events. It's definately one of if not the best console racer I've ever played.

PGR doeas what it does well enough.. I liked TOCA's wee niche in the market, sounds like they're dumbing down the series a la Colin Mcrae

Miths: I think most in-car views are awful though. Because of the narrow field of view, in order to get any of the cockpit into the frame, they make it feel like you're driving from the back seat. Seriously, what car have you ever driven where the A-pillar is about 1/3 of the way across your view and you feel like you're peering through a tiny letterbox of glass? To me that feels way less realistic than using the bonnet-camera.

When you're driving a real car, the dash and roof and pillar are only in your peripheral vision, you're not looking *at* them. You're barely even aware of them, whereas you do look at everything that's on the screen. Unless you have a 50" TV and sit 2 feet away, of course.

The only usable one I've found was in the DiRT demo--there's two in-car views, one of which pushes the cockpit right to the edge of the frame. But then you're wasting most of the work that the artists put into modelling the cabin.

@DodgyPast

I agree I think the flashback sounds great. As long as it's severely rationed of course.

I think the dumbing down of these racers is a shame, but then Forza has the sim market more or less covered.

If there are any publishers out there, give Simbin a ring please, I need GTR on my Xbox NOW!

"I wonder if this game has any Driving AIDS "

Pretty much exactly what I was going to write.

I like PGR. Thought Toca was a bit boring but liked the idea of a story. Hopefully this will do the job. Been so many sub standard racers lately.

Fucking hell!Another dumbed-down franchise!

Why do they make a next-gen TOCA with arcadish handling???

DIRT had great graphics and in-car view,but the driving was terrible.

Come on,there is only one sim for the 360 and at least a dozen arcade racers.If people enjoy Burnout,fine-as said apples and oranges.But arcade racers are more profitable(although the Gran Turismo series appear to prove otherwise) and cheaper/easier to make than sim with complex physics.

Forza doesn't cover the sim market,another sim with GRID's features wouldn't be redundant.In fact most of the arcade racers are
the same game.

Regarding PGR: I hated 1 and 2 as well (never played 3) and I'm very vocally opposed to games that reward what basically amounts to crappy driving. But PGR 4 is different. It doesn't feel as much like on-rails pseudo-steering. It's more arcade than sim, but it is real driving, and there are rewards for properly good driving, like drafting and clean lines through corners.

The weather and variety of tracks (particularly, the frequent opportunities to catch air) make it a lot of fun. I had to experiment with some custom races to sell myself on it though. If you just jump into a career, the beginning of the game is frankly dull, and might put you off.

I'd like to see a marriage of Forza 2 and PGR 4: the weather and variety of the latter, the damage modeling and physics of the former. GRID might get some of this, but I will miss the tuning and upgrades. For me, these made Forza something like an RPG. Which is a good thing.

In-car view: I used to feel strongly about the value of this, now I think it's mainly a tech demo to drool over for a few minutes before switching back to bonnet view. (Odd typing "bonnet" for an american LOL.) Yes, in real life there is a dashboard in front of you, but it's not what you're seeing when you drive, unless you're a very bad driver who fiddles too much with his radio. Your attention is on the road, and so the cockpit is in the periphery. Rendered on screen, and several feet away, it's just too much. (Especially if there's also a physical wheel on your desk/ lap.)

"The result is an edgy new title and look, a smattering of glamorous city tracks, the complete removal of any setup, modification or tuning from the game, and a move to mostly fictional, unlicensed motorsport series."

Removes from 'buy' list.

FFS not another arcade racer :(
PGR is arse (hate the Kudos system) and I'm not interested in drifting. I had high hopes for this game and they've just been dashed.

Bollox.

Incidentally, the thing that isn't a Trueno Sprinter is just the coupé version of the AE86, I reckon.

edit: another pic from the right angle.

"the gritty bite of TOCAs of old seems to have been lost in translation somewhere." :(

I really really wanted to play TOCA on 360. Is it not possible to add some kind of Pro setting in GRID ???

The least Codies can do is push MS to make TOCA 3 backwards compatible on 360.

So no licensed series? You've lost me Codies, hope the US "market" pays off for u...

"So no licensed series? You've lost me Codies, hope the US "market" pays off for u..."

They may be saying that, but unless I'm much mistaken, that's a BMW M3 GTR in that first screenshot. Even the car livery looks like one of the official ones used in the GTR1 and 2 PC sims (FIA GT 2003 and 2004 seasons if I recall correctly).

If "no licensed series" simply means no faithful adaption of this and that racing series from seasons x and y, I don't really care all that much - as long they've got licensed real world race cars battling against others with similar performance.
But of course if it means something entirely different that doesn't make much sense or seems particularly well planned, then you can add me to the list of complainers as well :).

For now I'll give them the benefit of the doubt, as I actually rather enjoyed Dirt (including the physics model, which I thought was half decent for an arcade rally/offroad game) - though I could have done without the annoying presenter and several of the car classes.

But of course for those of you still waiting for more console sims (well, just any really - Forza and GT hardly qualify for that label), I can understand your frustration and disappointment. If I actually had a furniture setup that allowed me to hook that G25 up in front of the TV, I certainly wouldn't mind taking even my sim racing from the PC to consoles.

Well I've been a fan of the TOCA series since the very start, and I think they're doing exactly the right thing. The last paragraph in the preview is spot on. DiRT was great, and there's no reason why this won't be excellent too. Go Codies!

bumper cam. it's almost like cheating.

"Belgium's mighty Spa-Francorchamps, which is the greatest race track in the world - fact."

not a truer thing said =)

i hope that flashback thing can only be used once or maybe twice per race, as you said for late race crashes. otherwise people will just end up using it for every crash which negates the whole idea of watching how you drive so you don't damage your car.

great cant wait ...................colin mcrea dirt is classic this will be too ...............

the Le Mans 24-hour race appears under official licence

Sold!

RIP TOCA!

Damn, this has made me lose almost all interest in the game. I loved the TOCA games, and have every one, But I doubt I will be getting this one.

I hope the American and asian markets make up for the lost sales in Europe....COCKS

Sounds good, will probably get it for PC

Pretty disapointed.

Why do we need another PGR/NFS? The TOCA games on the PS/PC were great. The Race Driver games were pretty decent.

This is poor. The game might turn out to be OK but I'm so disappointed they have gone the generic racer route in an attempt to brake the US market.

Shall be giving this a miss and hoping for a BTCC mod for one of the PC sims then.

"... Shall be giving this a miss and hoping for a BTCC mod for one of the PC sims then."

Well, if you can settle for WTCC, there's always RACE and RACE 07 from SimBin, but if you're no stranger to PC racing sims I imagine you've probably already played them (otherwise I would go for the latter, some improvements in in the WTCC part of the game, including physics and engine sounds, plus the addition of several support classes - my favourites being the Radicals, Caterhams and to a lesser extent, the Formula 3000's).

There's also an ETCC mod for rFactor, but I definately prefer RACE 07 if I want touring cars.

I hope the assholes have moved on from PGR4 when I get 360 then, PGR2 had some of the best memories of online gaming for me not only because it was great racer but because of the caliber of gamer that you found there, there were the fools but there were less of them.

I'm really looking forward to this. I think toca was wonderfull if you look past the dune buggy races and the truck races (which both didn't really fit with the rest of the game) I really love the DTM races and was hoping for something simlilar in Grid. Seems that is'nt going to happen, but it seem codies are more than making up for it.

Spa is indeed one of the best racetracks in the world and so is le-mans. I would sincerly rather have more realworld tracks than city tracks. The only game to have successfully made good use of citytracks is PGR. And even in PGR there are quite a few tracks that just utterly crap from a racing point of view.

All in all I think and hope that Grid will take off from where PGR left and push us further with better AI, slightly better graphics (maybe) better damage and lots of more cars on the tracks. Seems like a good deal to me.

Yeah the stupid buggies in DIRT and all the other shit ruined it!!!!
the old colin RALLY games were brilliant so was TOCA, with a good racing wheel these games were amazing!
oh well another good racing franchise gone.
First TOCA then Colin then PGR then BURNOUT its getting to the point where i might as well bin my racing wheel!

I love the Rally sequences in DiRT (mainly because they're so pretty) but have to just slog my way through the trucks etc. Does anyone actually consider these lumps of steel fun to drive?? The only problem with DiRT is the seemingly magical brakes/tires, which have you breaking very late on any given surface in order to put in competitive times. Something seems a little off there, but then it's not like I personally drive these cars on a daily basis.

Well, if it's arcadey the brakes will be strong in this one. The public at large wants to mash buttons after work, not think about racing lines.

For the Gotham record, I liked PGR3 but after Forza 2 I couldn't go back to PGR4, which had the handling somewhat dumbed down from PGR3. PGR4 didn't sell well, I think?

just played the demo of this, really don't like the handling, way too arcadey for my tastes. i'll stick with GT5P