World of Warcraft Comments by Kieron Gillen

Well said, i tried CoH back when i was helping with the UK beta but couldn't get into it at all, but it's truely unique in comparison to WoW's polished but predictable. much prefere WoW mind you - CoH just confused me.

Have only skimmed the thread* but am glad many people have already argued the central point: 8/10 is in no way a bad score.

It really was a choice between not admiting that I wasn't enjoying it as much as I did on the Beta, and explaining why, or just slapping a 9/10 and joining the standard choir.

I decided to try honesty. Never a clever idea, but - well - y'know.

KG

*Have been busy. Moving house and all that.

Moving house eh? - that brings back memorys of sitting on box's eating domino's pizza takeaway.

What level did you reach in the end?

What's the difference between PvP and RP ?

Anyway I think I'm playing PvP, and its quite enjoyable. And I was really suprised by the amount of women playing the game.

Well I don't ask everyone I see, but I spoke to a lot. And I've only teamed up with girls so far for quests (I'm on my 7th quest now I think), without me really trying to team up with girls (it just happened that the first person that I found that was going for the same quest as me was a girl).

My wife plays, so i suppose its possible - but just be carefull, that hot dancing nightelf could easily be a 40 year old man called Bernie.

Hear, Hear Quale. My sentiments exactly lately.

It seems in Eurogamers' expansionist rush, they've lost a great deal of their indie sensibilities, and I find myself taking in the reviews with not a few pinches of salt. Shame.

As for WoW: Being an old hand at MMORPG's it holds no interest for me. I tried it during beta, and Quale agains sums it up nicely calling it a meat and potatoes MMORPG. It is also very forgiving to newbies and other pushovers/wimps. Meh.

Also. It's fugly. There's no way it can be described as anything else, but people keep doing so. It's graphics and polygon count is as dated as the ones in the engine of Anarchy Online. Which first saw use in, oh, 2000?

I love WoW tho, it took all the newbs and noobs away from my favorite games. ^^

Ah Magpie... Sorry all the noobs get in your way. God forbid that just 'anyone' can enjoy themselves. Enjoy your big cup of ennui....

For what it's worth, I'm enjoying WoW. I'd been playing Eve earlier which is great, but there's only so much virtual economics a man can take.

I can't stand genre fantasy, or as Mrs Horace calls it "Orcs and big-titted fairies", but I wouldn't let that get in the way of a fun game.

the problem is, unless every review starts giving 5/10 to 'average' games - you'll get bitchslapped by the publishers who want to know why you gave their game 5 and all the other sites gave it a 7, and therefore you're either forced to adopt the '7 average' again or have to put up with not being sent review copys in future.

Personally i'd say scrap the review score, and just have some sort of "Eurogamers Choice" badge for a game which is the best of its genre.

As a verteran of a few (6) MMOGs I thought I'd give WoW a blast, and despite what all the critics are saying I reckon its bloody good fun. (and no im not a total saddo i only play them one at a time and im not totally hardcore)

Yeah to doesnt have as much potential as some other games like EVE and Starwars Galaxies, but by god its fulfilled so much more of it then they have (or seemingly, ever will). ITs refreshing and highly pleasent to playa polished MMOG then a half finished peice of crap that is pushed on players most of the time.

I am playing WoW, I am enjoying WoW, if you don't like it I frankly don't care as I'm going to play it for a while.

PS I play on Zenedar (brand new PvP server) and I wussed out of horde and went alliance, see you in there!

Something which winds me up is when people say that WoW is a 'noobs' MMORPG, i've been playing "hardcore" MMORPGS for ages (Eve, Everquest, Korean stuff you wont of heard of) and the only difference is that WoW has more cheerfull artwork design and is generally more welcoming with a better introduction sequence which doesn't leave you feeling totally alienated as soon as you create your character.

Also you should read our review score guide so you can find out a bit more about what each score really means, instead of comparing it to other publications who may use different guidelines.

And, sticking to the 'score' subject for a few more moments, many sites would be loathe to stray from the 'norm', because that'd bugger up the averages sites like Gamerankings. The site themselves might not care, but the publishers would

For those that can't be arsed. EG's 8/10 score means:

"Eight is that tricky "almost brilliant" category, that for fans of the genre in most cases will still warrant serious recommendation to go out and buy, while even people into other genres will probably still draw plenty of enjoyment from. You should at the very least try and play the demo, borrow it or rent it first, but bear in mind that it's not necessarily going to appeal to every person who plays it."

Funny that because I'm not really in to MMOs but after reading the review I'm quite tempted to give it a go. Woah! That's practically what is says above. Spooky.

Sorry it winds everyone that likes it up so much, but WoW is a newb kind of MMORPG. And the reason (among many reasons) it is - is because WoW awards the have my cake and eat it crowd. Ie: You get prezzies every second for playing, like some puerile-button thumping-reinforcement craving-Pavlov's dog.

But you can't like WoW and STILL be called a hardcore MMORPG'r.

Tough. Eat it! And be happy!

LOL

The best comment i can give about this game is simple.

I only just read this review today & (most of) these comments because WOW is that addictive...

I think the review is fair btw... Although the last two sentences confuse me. (i think they where supposed to).

"Personally i'd say scrap the review score, and just have some sort of "Eurogamers Choice" badge for a game which is the best of its genre."


Great idea!

I know you stopped the EG shop 'we only sell good games' idea, but an 'EG choice' badge would not only add to the rating process, but you could also have a section on the site that just lists all the badged games, with their current price on simply games and a link to buy them.

Failing that, would it be possible to add the current price to the 'Order yours now from Simply Games' link at the end of the review? If I'm not too sure whether I want the game, seeing a good price after the review might tempt me, and make you lot some commision.

I'm a total n00b to mmorpg's. I didn't even like rpg's that much; the combat was too mechanic for a fps-gamer like me. And then WoW came around. I decided to give it a try and I've been playing non-stop since. I agree with one of the posters who said: the fun-factor is very high.

Is anybody else disappointed at how non-interactive the world is? All the objects in houses etc. are just painted on, nothing can be picked up unless the game specifically wants it to be.

Why are these things acceptable in a MMORPG but not in current single player games - it's like they're lagging 4 or 5 years behind.

Blah wrote: "Oh no! What a disaster!"

It's no disaster at all not being a hardcore MMORPG'er. Not at all. But WoW is NOT hardcore, it's for the reward a minute crowd.

Blah wrote:"You're an asshat."

For telling the truth? My.. really shows that some of the WoW newbs needed to leave the other games, they are nasty and spiteful, like spoiled brats, and bring things down. They are also not very eloquent it seems.

I am glad they found their own playground.

And to all those having so much fun with the rewards WoW lavishes upon you every second: Ever heard about inflation? Ever think these trinkets might soon feel worthless, like so much fluff?

Oh, nevermind, carry on.

Hehe, SleepyMagpie, it sounds as if you're just jealous of the fun the "reward a minute crowd" has with this game, while you're stuck with your "hardcore" MMORPGs. :D

UncleLou,

Well, no. Really.

I LOVE MMORPGs, and signed up for and tried WoW as a betatester, hoping it would be as slick and polished as everything else Blizzard does. And in many ways it is. But they also made a completely american, middle ground, tastes like chicken, everyone can like it - world out of it. I also really think it's staying power is limited, given the ease at achieving things and gaining levels.

Get me right; I think it's good people are having fun, just don't come here and think you can smackdown with the big boys.

And of course I'm taking the piss with these outrageous statements about newbs, hardcore, big boys etc. But people actually take offense!

That's pretty funny to me. (^_^)

WoW has got some new things that it brings to the table, got some old things that it re-hashes.

It doesnt matter though in the end because it is still FUN, unlike most other MMORPGs out there. In the end it all boils down to opinion, most people seem to like it, some people don't, its the same with any game. Just MMORPG fans seem to be more vocal about things.

I also really think it's staying power is limited, given the ease at achieving things and gaining levels.


This might be true, but to be honest, I couldn't care less. I am having fun with this game now, everything else doesn't really interest me.

Get me right; I think it's good people are having fun, just don't come here and think you can smackdown with the big boys.

Hehe, reminds me of the Baldur's Gate "big boys" who slagged off Diablo 2 and felt somehow superior, just because they wouldn't recognize a fun game if it hit them on the bottom with an enchanted hammer. Guess what? It was very well possible to love Baldur's Gate 2, and still thoroughly enjoy Diablo 2. Same with WoW - it's the Diablo 2 of the MMORPG game world, if you want. It's fun, and that's what games are all about.

Never quite got rid of the impression these self-proclaimed "big boys" were all but that. ;)

Also. It's fugly. There's no way it can be described as anything else, but people keep doing so. It's graphics and polygon count is as dated as the ones in the engine of Anarchy Online. Which first saw use in, oh, 2000?

Don't be ridiculous.

I really think SleepyMagpie needs to be quiet now. He's really not doing those of us who enjoy other MMORPGs any favours.

Hum, I thought about that too, and then I disregarded it.

I'd rather read a review from someone who's played other MMOG's, than someone who hasn't.

You've got a good point about Blizzard making a game for people that haven't really played MMOG's before, it's certainly easy to pick up. Christ, one chap in our guild is level 40 after two weeks - the server houses some level 45'ers + at the moment, too. For me, time will tell; if Blizzard make necessary updates and changes with patches, and listen to the community, that'll make me all the more likely to continue with the game. If they don't, well, I probably won't.

Heh. I'm giving Kieron the benefit of the doubt, I doubt he'd let something he's been paid to write a journal on get in the way of a Review. To me it adds to his credit that he's experienced another world with some great ideas. Wow seems to be a game made from many, the more a reviewer or player has seen of those worlds, the better qualified, I think, it makes them.

Cheers

No, really, it's fugly to my eyes.

To Blah: Never played Counter-Strike in my life, and - now that I see you insist on being base and offensive in your language, I am skipping whatever you have to say from now on. Somehow I don't think I will be missing out on any great insights.. o.O

Megapocolypse: Whatever did I say to warrant your holier than thou attitude? I write what I feel about WoW, and I kid around a bit, but I sure as hell am not here trying to give credit to "those who like other MMORPG's". Great handle btw.

Meh. That was how i read what you wrote. It that was wrong, sorry. :)

but to address your point directly, wouldn't rather read a review by someone who HAS played MMOs, but hasn't actually been in the pay of another MMO developer?

Um. To the best of my knowledge, Kieron was never paid by NCSoft for anything. Eurogamer has been paid to run marketing for CoH, and part of that involved us commissioning some diary features about the game. There's absolutely no way in hell that we'd include "oh yeah, and we'll slag off WoW for you, how's that?" in a marketing deal. Seriously, what do you take us for? Do you think we're about to piss off Blizzard and Vivendi like that? Are we morons? No.

Personally I think it's fair to compare two MMO titles which came out a week apart in the UK. A lot of people will be trying to decide which one to buy.

As it happens we aren't planning on running further articles like the CoH diaries, but there definately isn't anything dodgy going on there... and we are running similar ad campaigns for both WoW and CoH on the site.

Some of the most high profile/critically acclaimed(by mass media) have "only" achieved an 8/10 on this site, so what's the whining(and make no mistake, it is whining) about it not getting higher?

I usually find KG's reviews fair and honest, and while sometimes I disagree with the score, I can see why he scored it as he did.

Question: would this be a good game on which someone - er let's call him my cousin's best friend - who's never played online could cut his teeth? What's this 'RP' and 'PVP' that people are going on about? Is there any way to play a game like this and just have fun socialising, or is it obligatory to go around and fight things?

Nico's points are worth addressing:

1) Whatever arrangement with the CoH diaries was between Eurogamer and NC Soft, not myself and NC Soft. I'm not in NC Soft's pockets. I'll stress this by - oh, I don't know - saying Lineage 2 is literally everything I hate about MMOs and not worthy to lick World of Warcraft's furry boots.

I'd appreciate if you can edit your posts later in the debate to remove references to me being bought and sold. Such misconceptions have a tendency to hang around in the idea-space of Gamers.

2) I do actually describe CoH as a very much more Minor game than World Of Warcraft. I'm very much *not* saying that WoW should do everything like City of Heroes does.

3) There's an entire more positively slanted article linked at the start. I did stress that you should read that, and I concentrated more on the downside just to avoid repeating myself.

About the score? I can't give 9/10 for something I'm not actively in love with. I really, really, really like World of Warcraft. 8/10 with room for promotion to a 9 down the line is the best I can give it, I'm afraid.

KG

WOW, what a rhuckus!

I feel kinda uncomfortable inbetween the corruption/clean polemic going on, and my somewhat aloof remarks about WoW being for newbs and not being hardcore.

While I do feel greater journalism has been found on the pages of Eurogamer earlier, Kieron seems able enough, and I don't think there is any warrant for accusations of being bought. If I were to criticize Kieron directly, it seems he is a bit too caught up in being the hip and cool Eurogamer writer, and comes off as a tad self-absorbed (clickable picon that links to a larger gallery shot of the writer, excuse me?!).

A general accusation can be levelled against the entire games-journo community when it comes to being swept up in the tides of hype gushing from the larger publishers when their games release and the propaganda floodgates open. I guess it helps getting pre-releases, exclusives, and other publisher attention too, inching that score up a notch, eh?

The Eurogamer writer of old; Gestalt, was remarkable in his integrity, and he could looked upon as a high water mark, he stayed above it all.

Sadly, he was eaten by a grue.

Another, much more apt observation can be made regarding the reviewing of MMORPGs. I really think one should wake up and see these “games” as much more than just. They are worlds. People go there not only to kill a few minutes before football practice or going down the pub. Very many log onto these games and leave the aforementioned completely (with the effect that has on your physique, I had to start lifting some weights and rollerblade so as to not atrophy completely). Therefore other standards should be applied to the reviewers of these worlds and the process of reviewing them. One should be looking for a Loney Planet/Rough Guide kind of traveler, that writes continuous blogs, and also intitial findings - exploratory reports. I actually wrote a mail pitching this idea to Eurogamer almost a year ago, but did not hear back. Oddly, Edge magazine, after their revamp, started a page devoted to MMORPG culture. Mind you, it does not cover any one world specifically or in depth, but it is a nice start, and lights the way.

My absolutely last comments on WoW:

I do not want to rain on anyone enjoying WoW now. Merely made some comments about WoW, some lighthearted and some not so.

THE PROBLEM OF WoW (read woe)

It could have been so much more. It is (to me) contemptable in it's bid to please everyone.

Posits:

If you get something very easily, it's worth will not be very much.

If you get something very often, you will start to expect it, and your surprise/joy threshold rises. Making you increasingly hard to please.

One loses interest quickly in a game or puzzle not requiring any acumen.

So. From these posits I lead that, while you may be enjoying WoW today, tomorrow, and maybe even in three weeks time, I doubt it will last. A MMORPG should grab and hold your attention and bring you wonderment and opportunity to grow and achieve for maybe as much as 3 RL years.

We have come to an age of good-enough, the mediocre, of fast food. How the heck are we gonna make anything brilliant that way?

WoW: Score 6 (today, with room for improvement come new reviews), if the 1-10 scale was really followed. IMHO Half Life 2, as good as that game is, isn't even a 10. It's an 8.5 if the scale included decimals, or a 9 then. Ok.

“We create worlds” was the slogan of Origin Systems, before EA came and ate them.

Burp. Thank you may I have another?

A MMORPG should grab and hold your attention and bring you wonderment and opportunity to grow and achieve for maybe as much as 3 RL years.

This is your problem, and where you misunderstand the game. People are having fun with this game now, and if it doesn't interest them anymore, they'll cancel their sub in 2 weeks, 4 weeks or 2 months. Where's the problem? Yes, it does reward you constantly, and yes you can reach lvl 60 fairly quick. You blame the game for lacking cynical "let's make them pay for years by drip-feeding them" mechanisms, as other MMORPGs do.

You somehow are a victim of your expectations how a MMORPG has to work, and can't accept it for what it is.

I disagree with ste statement that a newcomer shouldn't join a PVP server. You are completely safe in the starting areas, and hardly have any quests that lead you into territory where you can be attacked until you're around lvl 18-20.

Question: would this be a good game on which someone - er let's call him my cousin's best friend - who's never played online could cut his teeth? What's this 'RP' and 'PVP' that people are going on about? Is there any way to play a game like this and just have fun socialising, or is it obligatory to go around and fight things?

It's definitely obligatory to go around and fight things, how are you supposed to gain any experience otherwise? :-)

Fighting in groups is a lot of fun, imagine you're playing Baldur's Gate 2, but everybody in your party is a real person.

It's very newcomer-friendly, too, the game takes you by the hand, leads you from quest to quest, and the UI isn't intimidating at all. If, um, your cousin's best friend has played any RPG before, he shouldn't have any problems getting into it.

PvP means "player vs player". On these servers, eache area in the game is either "Horde", "Alliance" or "contested". If you're a Horde character, you can not be attacked in Horde territory, unless you attack someone first, or enable PvP with a simple command. You can, however, always be attacked in contested and Alliance areas. Like I said above though, you won't need to set a foot into dangerous areas until lvl 18-20. And death in WoW doesn't really punish you. You don't lose items, you don't lose XP, all it means is that you have to walk back to your corpse from the nearest cemetary.

PvE means "player vs environment". Players of the other faction can't attack you anywhere, unless you enable PvP. That means that both parties of a fight will have agreed to fight, always.

RP means role-playing server, where people are (in theory) expected to stay "in character".

If, for example, your cousin's best friend would happen to live in Canada, and he wanted to play on a European server, he'd have to make sure he gets the European version. :)

"And another small - but important - aspect is the mobs themselves. In EQ2 you'll find yourself killing snakes at level 17. In WoW by level 10 I was killing beastmen. At the end of the day they're both mobs, but it's more satisfying to feel your character actually has some ability and skill beyond being the local snake catcher... "


A bit unfair that. In EQ2 there are plenty of orcs/skeletons/knolls etc that low level characters are capable of fighting. Yes there are snakes but they fit the environments that they're in. There are also giant scorpians, undead warriors, packs of hounds, large groups of orcs etc. Theres plenty for soloer/groups to chose from.

Theres also cows. :D

Quale: I'm very sorry that I'm enjoying City of Heroes more than World of Warcraft. Next time I'll work out a way to say that which doesn't involve directly comparing the two.

SleepyMagpie: "(clickable picon that links to a larger gallery shot of the writer, excuse me?!). "

This is a joke, yes? If so, well... be careful. I get ideas easily.

KG

To be honest, you've probably got your pick with the PvE servers, as the majority of l33t folk are PvP. I love RP servers, I think as long as you take into account that it is an RP server and to value that, it doesn't mean that there isn't a time and a place where you can fall out of character into more general chat.

"gestalt was a celebrated reviewer on Eurogamer who was famous for his ruthless criticism combined with a true and humourous insight in what gamers liked and disliked"

Or an alternative description could label him as being a bitter, twisted game-hating reviewer and its probably the more accurate one. ;-)

Why doesn't it bring me a pizza hut when I write /pizza in WoW ?

"In a group, yes. Or for no experience. I personally hated the balance of mobs in EQ2. They were either overly powerful for my level or under-powered and so gave little/no xp."

I've pretty much soloed all the way to 16 and theres been plenty of blue/white/yellow single mobs for me to take.

Tell him hello from us. :)

So I've been playing WoW 2 weeks on my brothers a/c...

Tried an RP server(argent dawn), pve server(azjol-nerub) and a PVP server (bladefist).

So...

I dont know it's called an mmoRPg, or it has RP servers.
The game has no facility for roleplaying, nor does it seem like it will have for the forseable future.

It takes much much longer to level up solo, and it's been almost impossible to find parties on all of the servers.

Shitty backstory, fairly repetitive and bland quests(The Embalmer quest was ok though), mediocre graphics(why do reviews keep saying it has brilliant water effects? playing on max detail with a 6800GT), bland & boring class system.

Really, terribly poor crafting system for this day and age, horizons, EQ2 and SWG blow it out of the water.

No mounts until level 40 = you spend at least 50% of your time running(my average according to cosmos is 70% of 9 days total playing time JUST BLOODY RUNNING FROM PLACE TO PLACE).

Trading and auction house system are also really, _REALLY_ poor, with just 2 auction houses per side(horde/alliance).

Each area's is done fairly well, but all are hackneyed, and seem ripped almost wholesale from other games/movies.

One thing that's really annoying me is that there isnt a single area in the game that doesnt have some sort of evil band of enemies, even the starting area for humans have Defias Traitors straight out of the bat, about 90seconds walk from the humans capital city.


I'll say it again: A terribly mediocre MMOG that only has two things going for it:

OMG BLIZZARD/WARCRAFT
And it's polished nature(which doesnt stop frequent loot bugs, crashes to desktop and other miscellaneous bugs).

6/10

I'm baffled.

WoW not enough?

....

This site never fails to surprise me. Consistently rating critically acclaimed games lower than everyone else, like they have some point to prove. It's like the EDGE of websites (and no, that's not a compliment)

I'll admit it, I'm probably a geek. However, I'm getting a little sick and tired of SUPER geeks moaning on about games like WoW not being "hardcore" Most people don't enjoy "hardcore" MMO's (like EVE) because most people don't want to work for a solid year before they can have some fun in the game. As far as I can see, these people are intelligent, and aren't held back from enjoying a game by some sense of superiority.

Anyway, when you people finally get to enjoying your "reward a year" games, WoW players will already have a years worth of "reward a minute" FUN gameplay behind them. Who are the winners?