Tomb Raider: Anniversary Comments by Ellie Gibson

"It's incredibly obvious just how personal these problems are."

No. Things mentioned in this review, such as the cursor flying towards the edge of the screen and the camera being awful are quantifiable flaws. I didn't see anything in that review saying that the controls were fundamentally okay but Ellie couldn't get on with them. It sounds like it's just plain broken.

@manic_mouse

Good post. Whilst I don't agree with all of it it's good to see posts like this in amongst the usual crap we get here.

That's an excellent idea. Then they could raise the standard of this game to be on par with the other quality Wii releases.

Can't be too hard to score another point out of ten.

manic_mouse, to be honest I didn't get the tone (written speech is toneless + not very good at english, I do portuguese and Unix better).
You're totally correct, while I stand by the fact that classics are classics, I don't want to see a coloured version of Casablanca, for instance. Does that make the movie bad ? Don't think so.

So in some way, the Wii version is closest to the original TR1 experience, what with the awful control system and unplayable camera-angles.

Ah, the memories...

@ Aretak

Which is my point. According to the RE4 review those controls were fundamentally flawed too. Who's to say whether YOU'RE not getting to grips with it or if it is indeed "broken"?

If it doesn't work FOR YOU, and that's a consistent impression you get, of course you'll claim it's broken. So indeed, these problems are personal.

We were lead to believe it was impossible to get the UBERS to work in Blur, but that's simply not the truth. I can pull them off at the drop of a hat, it just took some figuring out.

With all due respect I don't care that you take these impressions as fact and use it to prove my point "wrong" by saying "it sounds like they ARE BROKEN". I've been told this before and it's turned out to be inaccurate too many times for me to be as trusting.

What troubles me way more are these alleged graphical issues. I'm at a loss for what version to pick up now to be honest. If the 360 version looked like Legend I'd be all over that, but apparently it doesn't, so there doesn't seem to be a need to power on that helicopter emulator in my living room just to have it honk out the PC game. I might just grab the PS2 version after all.

Wii + Gimmick controller = LULZ

Wii - Gimmick controller = Expensive GameCube (Hence LULZ anyway)

Wiilol.

Shit graphics? Check
Wonky controls? Check
Wii? Check

I reckon in ten years time the Wii will be remembered only for it's ridiculous sales figures rather than actually being a step forward in the evolution of gaming. "Oooh look! A GameCube with a light gun" ...Meh.

I'm so pleased that I sold my Wii for £50 before all this Christmas Wii madness.

Its true, if you hadn't you'd have no doubt had to go and buy this!

I sold mine too but CEX gave me £230 for it (dunno why, it was crap)

I'm pretty sure Kryon is just annoyed because the Wii hasn't been released in pink, yet.

^^^ I wish it had, then a at least I could have palmed the peice of shite off to my Mrs and pretend it was a gift for her all along. You are right though, the console should have been produced in Pink from the start, I mean it's obviously meant for women and homosexuals isn't it. You got Cooking Mama yet Toonster mate?

Despite the irrelevant sales figures (clueless casuals) the Wii must surely go down in gaming history as one of the silliest consoles of all time.

Even the Amiga CD32 had better games than the shite served up on this horrible little thing. If you want, I could find some shit 360 games and then make the same generalisation?

Oh look - the last 3 games EG reviewed on 360 got a 5 each. The last 3 wii games, excluding this, got 8, 7 and 5. From this crass simplification I deem the 360 a "casual noob lol" pile of shite in comparison to the wii.

Btw Kyron, I assume you're around and making jokes about homosexuals. Let me just reiterate - I WANT TO BUM YOU HARD. Because I have a Wii and am therefore gay. And, as you are no doubt aware, all gay men fancy you. They want to ram you in.

Fatsumo, mate, we all know you fancy me, that's OK though, I must admit, I've fantasized about shitting in your mouth a few times myself ;-) xxx

You got Cooking Mama yet Toonster mate?

Nope, don't own a Wii.

^^^ Good thing the Wii is small, should fit nicely in the closet with you.

It's amazing that after a year of great entertainment on the Wii, from Excite Truck, WarioWare, Trauma Center, Table Tennis, Mario Strikers Charged, Tiger Woods 08 and Kororinpa through to Resident Evil 4 Wii Edition, Metroid Prime 3: Corruption and Super Mario Galaxy, you guys are still complaining about the Wii lacking games, being a gimmick, etc.

I myself haven't finished Twilight Princess yet, I'm damn far away from completing Tony Hawk's Downhill Jam (killer game btw), and I've only touched on the optional parts of Super Mario Galaxy, which I'm looking enormously forward to return to. For me, there is so much to play on the machine -- and I'm not even counting Super Metroid or the other classics on VC here -- it's hardly even funny.

It's just boring to see people still don't get the point: It's a viable, entertaining and innovative games machine that, of course, isn't anywhere near perfect wrt. the games library. The same could be said about the two other machines, although the 360 has the upper hand in sheer volume.

Grow up, people.

Crying shame was looking forward to this.. ah well.

symbiote : prick? Check


@oerhört: You're expecting a load of 360 fanboys like kryon to grow up? Unlikely, it'll take another 5 or 6 years for them to hit puberty. I find it funny they weren't going "hahaha another shit wii game, wii is shit when metroid 3 and mario galaxy were reviewed.

What a surprise...plus I'm looking forward to another buggering-up of yet another grown up game by putting it on Wii...Monster Hunter 3.

The EG review should be a real laff riot. :)

@manic_mouse: I can see where you're coming from. But do people moan that the 360 and ps3 are "one trick pony's" because they only offer "more power" over their predecessors.

After all you could state that their "gimmicks" are having more power, or in the case of the ps3 - 2 gimmicks - more power and a blue ray drive.

And of course the ds was just a "gimmick" too.

Like it or lump it, it's the same with any game on any console - the "gimmick" is only as good as the way a game uses it. On the 360 and ps3 there are SOME games where 3rd party developers have done a shit job and the games look like shit. Therefor the "gimmick" of more power is lost. However, does this mean all the 360 and ps3 "gimmick" of more power is pointless just because on or two games are developed badly? no. Of course not. There are still games which use the power well.

Same for the wii. Just because some 3rd party games implement the controller badly doesnt mean the controller is pointless or not worth it- because there are games out there that use the controllers very well (mario galaxy, metroid, wii sports, rockstar table tennis, godfather, scarface, yadda yadda).

So one poorly made/converted game doesnt make a console pointless - no matter how much 360 owners masturbating into their socks while posting on forums try to tell us it does.

I also find it interesting how these things go in spirals.

On these very forums:

I remember when everyone slagged off the dreamcast and i defended it.. Obviously you were all right on that one - but i'm still a sega fanboy (from back in the day - they've gotten crap recently).

Then when the xbox came out - everyone on here was slagging that off too (presumably as everyone owned a ps2) - and i defended that. I find it funny that nowadays most of the slagging off of other consoles should therefor come from 360 owners.. my how times have changed!

:-D

"the videogame equivalent of Greedo shooting first."

Haha, that's the best summation I've ever seen of why the TRA T-Rex introduction is inferior to the original one, despite the technical improvement.

Eurogamer and all other game journos will have to slate a few Eidos titles soon to prove that they aren't in their pocket.
And so it begins.
Of course I also have no doubt that the game is in fact rubbish.

"Eurogamer and all other game journos will have to slate a few Eidos titles soon to prove that they aren't in their pocket. "

See, i dont get why this is "big news" all of a sudden and only related to eidos and gamespot either.

I said this a long time ago when Nintendo first revealed the Wii (Revolution). The controller is just not made for all types of games, in fact no controller is suited for all types of games. People at the time of its announcement clamoring about it being a gun/steering wheel/bat/sword/ ,well it just doesn't work that way. Plus the fact that you can't rest it on your lap. It's ideally made for short burst of play, generalised movement, you know, the casual stuff. Tomb Raider is hardly meant to be played by the casual gamer. It's pretty ironic that its biggest strength is its greatest weakness.

@old skool:

Sorry, but you're wrong. In terms of gameplay/controller mechanics tomb raider really isnt that different to mario galaxy. 3rd person adventure, pointing at the screen to shoot.

it's not that this game isnt suited to the controller - it just (apparently) uses the controller badly.

Mario Galaxy is in essence just a collection of mini-games. And take this comment from the review,
" Try doing that, and keeping Lara out of harm's reach (using the Nunchuk to move and A to jump), when you're confronted with three wolves. Or even two bats for that matter. It's like playing a fundamentally flawed light gun game. Time Crisis and Duck Hunt work because you're stationary, and all you have to worry about is aiming, firing and reloading. The Wii version of Medal of Honor Heroes 2 works because although your character can move, there's plenty of cover. So you can remain stationary and take out enemies (also stationary, apart from popping out of cover now and again) before moving ahead."

Although it a platformer the game is different by design. Nintendo does get the controls right but it is largely due to their level design which is complimentary to the controller.

BTW there is nothing wrong with Tomb Raider's design per se, it's just a case where this game was designed for a different controller and rather succesfully as its previous scores indicates.

Oh, c'mon.

Galaxy just a collection of mini games?

The Wii not fit for third-person adventures?

Sorry mate, this just ain't cutting it. If you want to be critical, it'd help if you actually criticised the things about the machine that really suck, like the responsiveness of the channels and the online shop, or the lack of any systemwide multiplayer system, or even the graphics. To claim that the machine can't do third-person adventures is just plain stupid.

Why on earth shouldn't it be able to, really? It has six buttons plus a d-pad within close reach, one regular joystick, and a pointer device as well as multiple accelerometers in each hand. More than enough to do third-person adventures perfectly well.

If this is the best you've got, there isn't even an argument to be had here. Then again, perhaps I should've known better.

Of course its a collection of minigames,cleverly disguised though, you go to each level or galaxy either to collect stars, do the odd puzzle or do a race. If you actually read my post properly then you would have seen that it is the level design that's the problem. Yeah we can just cut out those huge open spaces, and design the game that although there's multiple enemies close by you only face them one at a time. Even turning in Metroid Prime was a bit awkward but hey that's no problem if the enemies don't sneak up behind you. So much for the element of surprise.

/Edit

And the design of any game goes hand in hand with its control scheme.

If that's the case, could you please state your definition of a "minigame", as well as explain how, let's say, the "Dino Piranha" star fits that definition?

A minigame by my definition is a short level. The Dino Piranha you must do in 4 minutes, its a time trial or a speed run.

"Of course its a collection of minigames,cleverly disguised though, you go to each level or galaxy either to collect stars, do the odd puzzle or do a race."

Oh come off it.. using that logic halo 3 is just one big mini game as all you do is walk around shooting things

And it doesnt alter the fact that mario proved this type of game is possible - it's just that this game does it badly.

Really good review, enjoyed reading it.

I never thought I'd say it but I quite fancy getting a Wii again for SMG, Metroid and Endless Ocean.

Mario Galaxy just emphasises my point, each level is short, you can do the levels in less than 10 minutes, in fact you can do most levels in 5 minutes. So you won't get any strain holding the controller, there's enough of a pause/break for you to recover from fatigue. An attack is just a general shake of the controller, nothing taxing at all.

There's of course nothing wrong with Super Mario Galaxy but you must realise it's made for the Wii. To quote my first post,"It's ideally made for short burst of play, generalised movement, you know, the casual stuff."

Is the 360 version the best then?!

/hugs new Elite

/delays Wii purchase until SSBB gets 8/10 or better with online play

@ old skool

So how would you describe Zelda, which worked perfectly on a gamecube pad and the wii controller. It seems if the developer had tried to implement a standard control set up with the Wii nunchuk and remote it would've worked fine, there is absolutely no reason for it not too. the fact they tried to tack on gesture controls seems to have spoilt the game.

I also find it interesting that most trolls own a 360, must be something about the demographic.

The Wii is crap.

/End of thread.

So how would you describe Zelda, which worked perfectly on a gamecube pad and the wii controller. It seems if the developer had tried to implement a standard control set up with the Wii nunchuk and remote it would've worked fine, there is absolutely no reason for it not too. the fact they tried to tack on gesture controls seems to have spoilt the game.

@Brianstorm
I suggest you to read Eurogamer's Zelda review, you'll find it quite revealing.

Standard 2 stick game pads would have worked fine for Mario Galaxy too, but the Wii really can?t control traditional 2 stick design videogames for shit.

Yeah, right. That's why traditional 2 stick games like Resident Evil 4 and Metroid Prime are both uncontrollable and don't play very well at all.

"Plus the fact that you can't rest it on your lap. It's ideally made for short burst of play, generalised movement, you know, the casual stuff."

Wrong. You can easily play most wii games with your hands resting on your lap. Or on the setee either side of you - or on the arms of your armchair. Get the idea ?

As for Mario galaxy being minigames "each level is short, you can do the levels in less than 10 minutes, in fact you can do most levels in 5 minutes". Can you think of any mario games where the levels can't be done in around ten minutes ?

Besides I usually play for an hour or so without problems. Either you have very weedy arms - or your just making stuff up.

At least Kryon is funny.

All of the new Raider games suck. Not even Wii can save them.

You have to laugh. Not every game on the Wii is AAA, so the fanboys have to come on and slag off the console: "Only good for party games", "one trick pony" etc.

The GAME is crap because the DEVELOPERS didn't get it right. Not the console.

It's convenient how you forget that the best selling HARDCORE gaming titles are, wait for it, on the Wii (Galaxy, Twilight Princess, Metroid 3 etc..), not to mention being the only contender in the casual market as well.

Enough with the hate for a console that is clearly enjoyed by all and kicking the competition despite inferior hardware. It's just getting sad now.

I think 360s are great machines, and if a shit game gets a bad review (like Kane and Lynch) I don't sit there going "LOLz shit console!11"

Grow the fuck up.

The best version is the PC one. All the graphical effects, all the resolutions (I played it at a limited-by-my-monitor 1440x900), and you can use a USB X360 controller.

Now if only the game wasn't a dumbed down ParkKours copy of the original.

@oerhört: don't get upset by the trolls calling the Wii a collection of minigames. They might have had a point at lauch time, but atm it's totally ridiculous to say that.

Anyway having them troll about the Wii is better than them buying one, in which case you might meet them online (shudders)

was hoping to get a wii for xmas or may be in the new year and was tempted by this, 'spose ill have to hope for a ps3 version now.