Test Drive Unlimited Comments by Tom Bramwell

looks like TDU isnt region free!

edited post, apparently we get the DLC free whereas the US gamers have to pay for it.
Mentioned in the review in Edge this month - The USA get a version of the game with only 80 cars

On the price thing - some people suggested to me before I wrote about TDU that it might be worth moaning about it but I thought better of it in the end. You're all informed enough to make the decision about that on your own, and I suppose you'll either bite the bullet or not. Although it's a bit of a pain that the US version isn't region-free. Gits.

But this title is the endeavour of many passionate people, over many man-years - not a winsome collection of anecdotes from six to ten hours mucking about on a console game.

Boo-fucking-hoo. They were paid to make it and anyone can say what the hell they like about the end product. If the developers get upset I suggest they find a new job where their work isn't open to criticism.

I too think that the reviewer was not unfair to anyone in his review. 99% of the time I spent with my 360 was playing PGR3 - It is just sooo much fun driving because the handling is in my opinion the very best I ever experienced - bar none. Easy to learn - hard to master but once you get it down everything works like you want it to. So of course I felt that the handling was weak in comparison when playing TDU, especially with the first demo where I was nearly unable to control the faster cars without crashing into something every 10 seconds. I actually was a bit disappointed but since the slower cars worked fine I thought I just had to get used to it. Then the second demo came and even the faster cars and the bike handled quite ok and I found myself playing the demo far more often than I thought I would.

I really was excited about this game ever since I heard about it and will buy it tomorrow and quite frankly still would if it only got a 5/10 because I really enjoyed the second demo.

Again, I think the reviewer simply wished the handling felt as good as it does in PGR3. After all it is a racing game. Handling is 80% of the gameplay which still is the most important part of a game. Besides that his opinion totally reflects mine and I guess a lot of other PGR3 players feel the same - so it is perfectly ok it is in the review.

What framerate does this game run at?

My thoughts on the comparison made between the two games, which incidentally I thought was perfectly valid.

1. To gamers that like driving games its an entirely valid comparison to make and it simply mirrors the conversations that will be had in living rooms around the world when people play TDU. It gives player's info they need to make a decision. If the driving mechanic is crucial to you then this might not be good enough, if the online aspect is the most important thing then it almost certainly will.

2. I'm a dev and I know a lot of them (I haaaate saying that, but in this case its relevant). I personally support the comment made by PearOfAnguish, which may surprise some. Getting your work compared to other titles of a similar type is just an occupational hazard, just like an actor will get compared to their peers and a journalist will get compared to theirs. In fact anyone who works in a publicly visible forum that has a degree of subjectivity to its product (meaning that almost never will EVERYONE like what you have created).

You need a thick skin to work on games and if you can't hack critisism (sometimes valid, sometimes not, in this case valid IMO) then its going to be a tough industry to work in.

I personally think the devs of this particular tiutle will be very pleased with the review very proud of their work, and rightly so. I appreciate the sentiments of those defending their efforts against comparison and I'm sure the devs in this case do to, but I suspect they are more than able to take the hit :)

I have Midnight Club 3: Dub Edition Remix on my PS2 - isn't that roughly the same concept, except driving in cities instead of an island? And more offline-oriented?

Dogsdinner; I accept your point, but it's an iteration, not a new thing and it's much harder being 3rd rather than 1st party :-) Particulalry with a publisher thats, shall we say, had it's fair share of difficulties in the last year or two.

Tom; You just don't see this how a developer reads it, so endeth the conversation really. I just wanted you to try and understand how a little remark, however genuine and well intended, flies in the face of what it took to create something. It totally belittles what (in my eyes) looks to be solid and passionate effort on the part of Eden Studios. You're perfectly right to compare the two, and to pick faults with aspects as is your whim, but to suggest it'd have scored higher had Bizarre done done the game is insulting to Eden - which is my point. I didn't have a pop at the review in wider terms, just the one line you included which, as you may have noticed, got right on my wick.

Is there any confirmation of the extra downloads for EU'ers? Could someone at EG try and find out?

Agreed on not mentioning the price Mugwum, its a can of worms that has been debated to death anyway with people on both sides of the fence having valid points. End of the day its a personal decision and were it not for the fact I had some old PSP games I wanted shot of I'd have been in the boycott camp (but I'm too morally weak).

spadge, stop moaning and get coding Worms for XBLA :P

I've always wanted to tell a legend what to do.

* Poor graphics. It doesn't matter how pretty it looks paused, when the sense of speed is dulled by shoddy frame update.
* Poor handling. It's not arcade, it's not sim, it's not even sim-with-handbrake (hello PGR3), it's just .. bland.

AOFanboi: yeah, sort of like MC3 dub, but you've got it a little wrong about the online/offline aspect - MC2/3 are all about online play - single player is just training. And they have genuinely good handling too. And faster visuals. On older hardware. And we weren't expected to pay full price while the US got them at budget prices. Oh dear.

Aww poor Spadge, he's a sensitive boy. Bless his little cotton socks.

If anyone from Eden has a problem they can voice their own opinions in the comments section.

Sensitive boy who happens to have been behind some of the best games of the 16bit era.

Not doing your later efforts a disservice btw spadge, its just the whole developer rockstar thing died a death with the 32bit era so I kinda lost track of what your output was :(

Sensitive boy who happens to have been behind some of the best games of the 16bit era.

Yes, but so what?

To be fair i didn't really see the discussion as arguing if it was wrong or right to compare the games. The only thing argued was if it was really fair saying the game would have been better if Bizzare had done it. That's the point that was argued about. Not that you couldn't compare the games. Of course you can compare the games. They both have cars in them :).

And thinking of it a bit more. I wonder if it really is so certain that the game could have been better if done by Bizzare. I definitely think it's possible that some corners were cut to accomodate the whole island/MMORG/AI drivers thingy. In the end I think Eden and Bizzare should just join forces to bring us PGR Unlimited.

As someone said in another thread. The most bizzare thing is that what EA didn't manage with their Motorcity Online thingy is something a Test Drive game seem to manage. The earlier Test Drive games (except of course the C64/Amiga games) were quite .... bad.

PearofAnguish:

Him > you

:)

Uh-oh, Furbs is standing up for his hero. Do you have his picture hung on your wall? Do you kiss it every night?

Ah, young love.

This is true. I want to feel his soft lips against my ear as he talks dirty about Worms and Alien Breed.

PearOfAnguish. Damn right. Infact its laminated. I have an inflatable Superfrog love doll that I use and call out SPADGE! OH SPADGE!!! at that beautiful moment.

Two comments:

1. The posts in this thread are really long, they are multiple paragraphs and this si not good in the internet adult-ADHD society (i.e., me)

2. I spent all the time on the demo ramming into other online player cars to mess up their races. Childish, but satusfying. It was like revenge on all the boy racers that cut me off on the roads.

I agree with spadge in this argument. Saying that a game would have been better if it (or parts of it) had been done by another developer serves no purpose at all.

Also, whereas PGR3 was in many respects a step back for online play (with respect to the great PGR2), TDU is hugely innovative in its online play and structure. It should really be lauded for that.

TDU is hugely innovative in its online play and structure. It should really be lauded for that.

Did you read the review? It says that already. But it also points out that the handling is weak compared to other high-profile racers. And handling is rather important in a racing game, no?

Are the Eurppean servers on Live running for this, tried it and kept getting servers on online etc?????

having played this for several hours, I can say it's fucking great, but also buggy as hell.

Reminds me of 'opening week' on WoW. The pains are painfull, but if you rise above it, there's a good game underneath. I'm expecting/hoping these bugs will be cleared up once the number of players to number of servers settles down. Although, the frame rate, lock-ups and pauses while textures/maps are loaded in game are unliekly to be fixed anytime soon.

Take what you want away from my post.

I agree with Spadge and others, the comment was unfair and unprofessional. I don't think, after playing what Eden created for the last two days they should have to feel inferior to Bizarre or be told that their product would have been that bit better had someone else made it.

The game seems to shine when you treat the traffic as you might in real life. Pulling out and accelerating past, nipping back in and looking for your next chance to overtake. The car delivery missions in particular make great use of the world they have created. You really do have to drive around the traffic and pay attention to the road system in order to complete them.

What Eden have created, in terms of scale is really quite remarkable. For example, one of the online races takes you around the entire outside of the island and clocks in at 195km.

Carlo: I run my Xbox via the VGA cable on a 32" Samsung LCD and had been running the game at 1366 x 768. I have since dropped the resolution down to 1024 x 768 with no noticeable difference in quality and have since found any small isues I had with frame rate have disappeared. While there is the odd stutter at times due to the streaming process I no find the game to be incredibly smooth, especially for a game with a draw distance equal or greater than Oblivion.

So is this game actually worth buying? How has it been improved - 'cos those first demos were pretty grim/dull/whatever.

Perhaps we should establish a charity for game developers whose feelings have been hurt by those awful, awful critics. I even designed a logo:

:(

Poor handling - Erm bet most of you didnt know that you can ADJUST the handling/calibration of STEERING in TDU...

:)

I'll buy this when they sort out the stupid fucking pricing and admit that they are treating us Europeans like scum compared to the US.

Shame because I loved the demos and this could be the first game to get me to actually use my XBL gold a/c. But I have principles, and those currenlty involve refusing to be arse-raped by greedy hypocritical games publishers.

EDIT: Too many typos.......

SomaticSense - So you don't buy games then?

The 3rd 8/10 in a row. This bodes well for what we can expect this xmas period (I hope). ;)

Lol. Servers are still unavailable, 1 day after release...

So, people who've played this.

Is this another one of those "looks pretty, but runs at 20fps" games?

What is it with "modern" games running slower than "last gen" games anyhuws? Not saying this is one of those - Just interested.

Can people please stop harping on about the bloody price issue. Products cost different amounts in different countries because they are different markets. This isn't new.

Does anyone complain that orange juice costs less in the US? What about power tools? Or car insurance?

For crying out loud just grow up, get over it and move on.

Dropped to slideshow levels for 10 odd seconds.

Reet.. That's me put off then.

"SomaticSense - So you don't buy games then? "

Not when the publishers are clearly giving out a "fuck you you stupid Europeans" message. Which is exactly what Atari are doing right now, so I will refuse to buy any of their games until they sort out that stupid hypocritical "Americans deserve this game cheaper than you" attitude.

And yes, I know what you mean, we get arse-raped by games publishers when it comes to prices all the time. But Atari have gone about 3 miles over that fine line this time, and that is way too far.

I'll give you an analogy:

You pop into Mcdonalds to buy a cheeseburger expecting it to be around 99p which you are willing to pay because it is the accepted standard price of a cheeseburger. The bloke in front of you is charged 50p, you assume there has been a price cut or a special offer and you quite rightly now expect to pay 50p as well. No. The McDonalds employee charges you 99p. You ask why and they state "It was only on special offer for that bloke.
You'll refuse to pay on the grounds of discrimination, and then probably go to Burger King instead even if their burgers are the same, as you'll do it in spite because McDonalds fucked you over.

America is the "bloke in front", and instead of it being 99p it's £49.99. That's what's pissing me and many others off and why I hope this game flops sales-wise in this region (which I'm doubting will happen) in order to teach Atari not to treat us in such contempt in future.

EDIT: Yet more typos!! Note to self: learn to proof read......

"Can people please stop harping on about the bloody price issue. Products cost different amounts in different countries because they are different markets. This isn't new.

Does anyone complain that orange juice costs less in the US? What about power tools? Or car insurance?

For crying out loud just grow up, get over it and move on."

All games are cheaper in America due to the exchange rate, but this is not the issue. The issue is that Atari announced it as a budget title only in the US but not in Europe. So instead of the game being the usual 50% (approx) more expensive, it is around 2 and a half times more expensive. That is a hell of a difference.

I bought TDU, but had missed that it was cheaper than the US somewhere along the line...

I with you though SomanticSense.

I think though, that they need to drop the price on 360 games down to an RRP of £40. But thats for the comments section of the related article on the front page.

WTF?

Are you people STUPID or something?

EVERYTHING is cheaper in america. If you go into burger king, you can buy a meal for $5, the same meal over here is £5. A tv, exactly the same, and so are games, etc etc

Its called ECONOMICS.

The games companies ARE NOT screwing you over. It just costs more over here, the same as everything else does.

Which is why (big suprise) wages are better over here too!

Yes kids, some things cost more/less in different parts of the world! Thats the way the world works!

Its NOT rocket science is it? Or are you all really THAT stupid? Next time you're in school, go talk to your teachers about e-co-nom-ics.

And they say GCSE's are dumbing down...

"2. I spent all the time on the demo ramming into other online player cars to mess up their races. Childish, but satusfying. It was like revenge on all the boy racers that cut me off on the roads."

You see, this is why I don't 'do' online gaming.

Because the people you meet online are usually complete selfish twats

Can people please stop harping on about the bloody price issue. Products cost different amounts in different countries because they are different markets. This isn't new.

Does anyone complain that orange juice costs less in the US? What about power tools? Or car insurance?

For crying out loud just grow up, get over it and move on.
____________________________

Now that just isn't fair. Orange juice, maybe they have states that grow more oranges. car insurance, maybe they are worse drivers so they pay larger premiums. But last time I checked most of my games had "made in taiwan" or some shit printed on them, and I am sure America is the same (cheaply made and imported I mean". It's not called economics, it's called They charge it because they feel they can. America doesn't have richer plantations of the magic goo they use to make dvds, their petrol to ship the dvds don't cost any more... quite simply they charge it because we pay for it.

Except a lot of us aren't willing to pay for it, so we pirate it or we only buy them when they are cheaper in sales a few weeks after release.

@SomaticSense

"All games are cheaper in America due to the exchange rate, but this is not the issue. The issue is that Atari announced it as a budget title only in the US but not in Europe."

First off, your facts are simply wrong. Games are NOT cheaper in the US because of the exchange rate, they are cheaper because it is a larger single market, which means the production, marketing and distribution costs per unit are smaller. Which in fact is EXACTLY the reason that Atari freely gave for the price difference.

And your McDonalds analogy is frankly nonsense, contrived using artificial boundaries to support your flawed point. A far better analogy (as smelly suggested) would be to compare two different McDonalds, one in the US and one in the UK.

And what do you think you would find if you made that comparision? That McDonalds is cheaper in the US, thats what.

@dk_rare

The cost of pressing aluminium is one of the smallest costs involved in the whole process. So the costs of making the discs isn't really what causes the differences we sometimes see. The more customers, the cheaper you can make your products. THAT is why orange juice costs less in the US too, because one juice production plant can more cheaply supply their products to a greater number of customers.

"They charge it because they feel they can"

This is true of every company everywhere. That is what is so disappointing about this whole discussion. It just so happens that for some people the price point is a problem, so they act like Atari has invented a new kind of evil. They are just doing what every company on the planet does, i.e. setting their price for their market.

In no other market have I ever seen so many people rant about "being treated like scum" with regard to a product they DO NOT HAVE TO BUY!!!

If you don't like the price, don't buy it. I'll say it again especially for SomaticSense. If you don't like the price, don't buy it.

I mean FFS, do you go into Curry's and shout at their staff about the price of their TVs? Do you go into fish and chip shops and scream at them because their fish is a bit under done. NO, you go somewhere else and spend your money on something else.

Kids have little hissy fits about this sort of thing because they don't understand and they can't control their emotions. Mature adults have no business acting so bloody victimised when they are ABSOLUTELY in control of their own purse strings.

Edit : kangarootoo beat me to it!



GAH!! ITS GOT NOTHING TO DO WITH THE GAMES COMPANIES!

*EVERYTHING* IS MORE EXPENSIVE OVER HERE!

Its to do with wages, cost of living, inflation, taxes, etc etc etc.

Now go away, read on economics, maybe go on holiday to america and realise that EVERYTHING costs less over there and dont come back until you know what you're talking about.

Trying to keep this simple, as some people on here just dont seem to get it:

A burger may cost $5 over there, and £5 over here. But a burger employee is earning $5 an hour instead of £5 an hour over here. So therefor both employees can buy a burger with their hours wages, even though in effect that's double the amount over here.

See?

Understand?

Or do i have to think up an even more mind numbingly simple explanation to explain this to you?

And as for using that as an excuse for piracy - get over yourself! A tv costs $200 in the states, but £200 over here, does that give me the right to go into dixons, and steal a tv as "they're ripping me off for charging me double"? Despite the fact i'm getting paid double what an average american earns?

100 WooHoo!

Why does everyone seem to think we get paid more than Americans, I think you'll find they get paid the same amount, if not more for doing a comparative job. As for the price point, its not that we are paying more thats pissing people off, its that we aren't having the game be released as a budget title. I think thats quite annoying aswell, but maybe understandable as the company is in such a dire position.

Hmm.. Amazon.com has it for $39.95, amazon.co.uk has is for £39.99.

Which is the standard deal on most things.. $1 = £1.

The reason people are slightly miffed about the price differential (which is missed by those who are happy to bend over and take whatever a company decides to do to them) is that in this instance its a decision taken purely for marketing reasons. Its nothing to do with distribution costs, development costs, cost of living or anything else. If it had been the usual price difference between the EU and the US noone would bat an eyelid. Ok the 360 prices in Japan are marketing driven, but I think most gamers would accept that for MS Japan is a special case.

Just imagine if this became the norm - America paying budget prices whilst us europeans subsidise their purchases on every single game, for no other reason than it helps generate better sales in the companies home (and largest) territory. Thats a bit more than a $10 difference here and there. Imagine Halo 3 coming out for £20 over there and £50 here. Are we wrong to ask "wtf?" and vote with our wallets?

Sure, bitching about it on the internet is pointless other than raising awareness, but it seems both sides are very concerned about how other people spend their money.

???

I dont get this "budget price" thing?

Are you saying that other places other than amazon are charging less than $39.95?

Or are you bitching about the $1 to £1 ratio? Which is true for 99.99% of ALL products games or otherwise?

Have I missed the point? Is amazon.com selling this too expensive, and everywhere else selling it for $20 or something?

smelly.

360 games in the states from amazon.com cost usually $59.99 see saints row if you want to see for yourself http://www.amazon.com/THQ-752919550021-S...

test drive unlimited has been released as a budget game over there hence it costs $39.99. $20 cheaper than a full price game - thats why people are a bit miffed.

J

See, Furbs gets what I'm on about. I am a grown adult (23 at the end of the month), and am fully in control of my money, which is why I've decided not to get it. That's my own personal decision which is not up for debate here. I'm trying to raise awareness as unless people make a stand to what Atari (and it is only Atari that have done this to my knowledge) then ALL games companies will be trying the same thing. My analogy, however flawed, was purely to convey how I feel about the situstion, that it feels like someone else is getting a deal that for some reason I don't deserve.

But let me get this straight, I KNOW everything works out more expensive over here whether it's the exchange rates, the markets whatever. This isn't the point, that is a COMPLETELY different subject and one that I have accepted a long time ago.
The fact of the matter is Atari announced this as a budget title so that (in their words) "more people can experience this game and to make it more accessible to all". Which in turn lead to many people (including me) to applaud such a thoughtful gesture to gamers by a games publisher.
Only thing is, this 'budget' price was only for the US region, and that we had to pay the usual RRP (depending on where you get it from). The normal RRP for a US 360 game is about $60, the normal RRP for a 360 game in the UK is £49.99. But TDU's RRP in the US is $39.99. So why couldn't they have released TDU over here for the equivalent of around 30 or 35 quid? That would still be the usual "more expensive than the US market", but we would still be getting it at a cheaper price, thus living up to their promise of "we want this game to be cheaper and therfore accessible to more". Why didn't we get that budget price?
This seems to me like they care about the US market much more than ours, which is usually the case, but NEVER to the extent as this. It suggests either that they couldn't really care whether the game is "more accessible" over here, or that they think that all gamers in the European region are all loaded and that everyone could afford it anyway.

That is what I'm getting at. This is not the usual case of the US being more expensive, but of Atari seeming to treat the US market better than most games developers usually do, and unless people take a stand to stop this attitude it can only get worse and lead to more developers trying the same.

@jenguin : So that just means that. In relationship to other products, uk gamers were getting a better deal on 360 games in the first place!

You'd normally expect a £1 to $1 ratio (which is pretty much true for all games, consoles, cds, dvds, electrical goods, etc etc). The fact the average game is $60 in the states, but £50 over here means we're getting a better comparitive deal in the first place - in effect getting a £10 discount over what we'd normally be paying per game..

But regarldess of which -

It's $20 cheaper than other full price games - appx £10.

Amazon.co.uk has it for £39.95, whereas other full price games sell for £50.

So a £10 discount?

Or have i totally lost the plot here? I fail to see the problem?