Project Gotham Racing 2 Review

Tom and Kristan fight over Bizarre Creations' latest car porn.

Version tested: Xbox

Although I've dabbled in Xbox Live games on numerous occasions over the past year, it wasn't until yesterday afternoon that Microsoft's online gaming service truly landed in my living room. Oddly enough, it happened during a single-player game of Project Gotham Racing 2. As I sat there happily throwing a curvy posterchild for "American muscle" into bend after bend in search of an elusive first-place finish, a little envelope-shaped icon appeared in the bottom of the screen. Eyeing it suspiciously, I finished my race, hit the A button a few times to check my score and compare it against worldwide leaderboards for that particular track, and then hit Y to pull up the game's Xbox Live menu. Sitting there at the bottom of my friends list was a request from Kristan to join him in a race - and all I had to do to switch from the cosy perfectionist pursuits of the single-player game to the heat of a six-player race over broadband was hit the A button.

You ain't got no game!

'Project Gotham Racing 2' Screenshot 1

Now, when we spoke to Polyphony Digital's Kazanori Yamauchi at E3 this year, he sounded very uncertain about Gran Turismo 4's online mode. Having spent countless hours in the company of Project Gotham Racing 2, I'm hardly surprised. Yamauchi-san thinks GT4 could be limited to two-player races and even reckons that the occasional jerks and other issues that crept into the E3 build may be impossible to quash. PGR2 on the other hand delivers sumptuously detailed eight-player racing with voice communication and without a trace of lag, and is without question the finest example of an online console game to date.

Live integration runs right throughout the game. Although you can still find a Live menu with the usual Optimatch, Quick match and Content Download options, the integration here is mostly passive - downloading leaderboards for individual tracks whenever you post a new score, uploading and downloading ghost cars to watch and learn from, and of course friends list/request access via every menu screen in the game. What's more it gives you the best of both design preferences, allowing you to build up actual Kudos points and rankings via competitive multiplayer races or, if you don't want to be limited to the cars you've unlocked in the single-player game, to pick from anything that takes your fancy in a just-for-the-fun-of-it Exhibition race.

Of course we owe our passion for the Xbox Live side of things mainly to a fantastic physics model transplanted almost completely from the original Project Gotham with a few sensible tweaks. There are some real gasp-worthy moments in there, like flying off a hill only to land on the roof of an AI competitor. Individual cars are noticeably different to one another, and moving between classes is like playing different games - just try hopping into a Focus RS after a spell with the SUV races. Controls remain simple - right trigger to accelerate, left to brake, A button to handbrake - but the level of control really is unmatched, with a handling model that rewards you for taking corners properly, searching for the best line, massaging the shoulder buttons rather than mashing them and not just cynically smashing into barriers at 150mph hoping to skip off into the lead. Although the damage model is still largely superficial - though much crinklier on the bodywork than the first game - even the fastest car off the blocks is going to surrender a lead behaving like that.

In the end the racing model falls at the most addictive point between realism and Hollywood, and it's easy to pick up too thanks to tyre burns onto the track at the precise points where braking hard will give you a decent line out of a corner. Think of these are stabilisers on a bike and you'll be pulling the Gotham equivalent of wheelies and no-handers by dinnertime - abandoning them to carve out your own optimal lines and receiving even more Kudos for doing so.

Kudos for trying

'Project Gotham Racing 2' Screenshot 2

Ah yes, Kudos. The other thing that keeps me playing. Kudos points, as anybody with a few minutes experience of MSR or the original Gotham well knows, are awarded by the game whenever you do something stylish - powersliding a bend, making it through a section unscathed, drafting in an opponent's wake, finding a good racing line or even taking off over the brow of a hill. Furthermore, if you can do several stylish things in a row without more than a couple of seconds elapsing between them, then the game strings your points totals together in combo - accumulating multipliers and ringing up bonuses for your efforts.

However unlike the first game, where a significant combo was entirely lost at the slightest brush of a wall (an experience equivalent to performing a multi-hundred-thousand-point combo in Tony Hawk or SSX and then accidentally landing on the wrong pixel), PGR2's Kudos combo system has been refined - now, instead of losing everything when you strike an obstacle, you only lose any points earned during that particular bit of wayward driving and the bonus points you were looking forward to banking (those shown in brackets). As a result it's still a huge disappointment to mess up a long-running combo, but it isn't the end of the world. It's a nice balance, appeasing the masses of gamers who couldn't be arsed to persevere in the face of such harshness, but also giving perfectionists like me something to sweat about.

If you dabble in the single-player game (and who would've thought 18 months ago that would ever be an 'if'?), you'll learn to treasure Kudos. Although you do earn Kudos points and improve rankings through online play, the benefits are mainly borne out on the single-player side of things, with each points milestone rewarded by Kudos tokens that can be spent unlocking new cars. And in terms of the single-player modes, Kudos is the key to progression.

Although there's plenty of fun to be had with Arcade Racing (a series of circuits spread across the game's 11 cities, which have to be conquered in small groups) and Time Attack, the bulk of your time with PGR2 will certainly be spent on the Kudos World Series tracks. These are split up between the various car classes (running through everything from family saloons, coupes and SUVs to American and Pacific muscle cars, concepts, track cars and "ultimate" dream-mobiles), which are unlocked sequentially and comprised of a number of cars to unlock and a number of driving tasks to complete using vehicles in that class.

Street smarts

'Project Gotham Racing 2' Screenshot 3

As with the first game, tasks are split into various groups, some of which are old and some of which are new. This time we have Street Races (guess), Hot/Average Laps (beat a certain time with a rolling start or beat a certain average time over several laps), One on Ones (showdowns with drivers of desirable cars), Speed Cameras (tricky stretches of track culminating in a speed trap - the object being to get up as high a speed as possible for the camera), Overtake Challenges (overtake a certain number of cars within a time limit) and Cone Challenges (like PGR's "Style Challenges", but with a greater emphasis on cones - the idea being to hit an astronomical Kudos total by weaving through them and performing ludicrous slides to boot). Although the driving styles on display vary dramatically from task to task, there remains one centralising factor - you need to finish with a certain number of Kudos points to win a medal.

Each task in PGR2 basically asks you to bet against your own abilities. Although you're competing for one of five medals - Steel, Bronze, Silver, Gold and Platinum, of which the latter three are rightly dubbed Medium, Hard and Expert - you aren't just racing to try and win whichever your performance begets. In actual fact you have to pick a medal before the race and then try and perform well enough to win it. Harder medals mean progressively tougher AI, more fearsome lap time goals, higher Kudos requirements and the like, so it's a trade-off you'll want to think about - a risk/reward system that on the one hand has you grinning and mouthing "I told you so" at the furniture when you edge into Platinum territory by a fraction of a second, and on the other hand has you gouging your eyes out when you fail by a similar margin (which would have been enough to win the next medal down of course) or outdo yourself when you're only aiming for a pedestrian accolade. It's an interesting dynamic, which reeled us in with the original Gotham and continues to do so here.

However, it also seems to have been, well, dumbed down a little - you can no longer adjust the target lap time to increase or decrease your bonus reward, for example, which previously allowed more technically able drivers to get most of the Kudos they needed by driving to a higher standard, whilst also allowing flamboyant types to make up the difference in massive powerslides with a few extra seconds to get round in.

Today I become number one!

'Project Gotham Racing 2' Screenshot 4

By going down this route, the game actually loses some of its finely poised balance. Although before the game was roundly accused of being too hard on occasion, this time it doesn't block progress quite so angrily when you skip over the tougher tasks. Here, in fact, you can skim through most of the game just dipping into Medium-rated challenges and basically winning them all straight off the bat. Your Kudos ranking increases at a fair enough rate on the strength of just Silver medals, meaning enough Kudos tokens to unlock the best car in any class pretty much as soon as you get there. Although it's unquestionably a lot of fun to play with some of these beastly vehicles, there's less of an emphasis on aiming higher than there was in the original PGR, even though the bar has been raised with the ludicrously difficult Platinum challenges, presumably to appease the likes of me. And with Gold/Hard tasks actually a lot tougher than Silver/Medium tasks - and not, say, just hard enough that you end up questing after them anyway - there's this tendency to romp through the single-player game without really being pushed too hard.

That said though, for me there is plenty of incentive to go back and chip away at those ridiculous totals, partly because some of the cars you can unlock only reveal their less obvious charms when you actually get them on the track, and partly thanks to the Xbox Live integration and the prospect of being crowned No.1 in the world at a particular task. Although I know Kristan is going to complain about the balance (probably because the world rankings are never going to rest in his shadow), and admittedly it isn't exactly what I was after either, it does have a lot going for it. Besides the world rankings and different cars, the tweaked reward system also means you can play PGR2 whatever mood you happen to be in - if you're a hard nut and want to be screaming at the TV all evening then you can limit yourself to racing for Gold or Platinum; if you just want to keep unlocking stuff and have some fun without the tears and profanity, then you can just race for Silver and sometimes Gold, and make steady progress; and of course you can always plug in a network cable and hop online.

Everybody's torque-ing about it

'Project Gotham Racing 2' Screenshot 5

Certainly in terms of sheer volume of content PGR2 is a game that will appeal to plenty of people. Even if you are just blitzing through it on the Medium/Silver skill setting, it's going to take endless hours just to unlock all the tracks. Even playing the game using Special Reviewer Techniques (i.e. without budging from the couch for the best part of 10 hours) didn't unlock the whole game for several days, and getting all the cars into your garage, getting all the Platinum medals, winning all the Arcade Races and getting your fill of online racing is such a mammoth task that it seems harsh to criticise PGR2 for letting you do it in various ways.

In fact, the only truly unshiftable criticism on this page ought to concern the driver AI. Despite careful balancing elsewhere (whether it gels with you or not), the AI cars in PGR2 still drive without any sense of adventure, sticking to the racing line like glue, constantly barging into you because you're on their pre-determined route and often managing to ruin challenges completely by fouling up the first corner and allowing one of their number to build up an unassailable advantage while you try and dodge the spinning morons in third, fourth and fifth. Actually, it's not so much when they do this on the first corner that it grates - it's when they do it on the last stretch of a five-lap race.

Then again, even when the game was at its most punishing and frustrating, I always picked the pad up from where I'd hurled it, safe in the knowledge that I could still make progress, and fuelled by a desire to play with the next series of vehicles. Truly PGR2's cars are some of the finest ever to appear in a videogame, and deciding where to spend your Kudos tokens is quite literally like picking between Ferraris and Porsches, TVRs and Audis. There are a huge number of licensed vehicles here, and after a few hours you'll really start to drool over every acquisition, whether it's the Enzo Ferrari right at the very end to or the Vauxhall VX220 somewhere in the middle and the AC 427 Mk.III which, though I have no real idea what it is, is unquestionably my favourite car in the game thanks to the way its overpowered engine has it lurching around. Remember that bit in The Fast And The Furious where Vin Diesel reminisces about his experience with the monstrous car in his garage? "So much torque," he recalls wistfully, "the chassis twisted coming off the line" - that's the sort of feeling I got from the AC 427...

Hey there good-lookin'

'Project Gotham Racing 2' Screenshot 6

Obviously the aesthetic is about half the fun, and it helps that the AC 427 is so curvy and beautiful that you lose sleep. PGR2's attention to detail in car design really seals the deal for me - the reflections in particular are just stunning, and even change dynamically as you rotate the camera for an action replay-style side-on view as you rush down a straight. The lines and curves in everything north of the SUVs are just car porn - right down to the way the brake lights on a sleek sports car sort of fade off instead of just flashing and the way scenery rolls smoothly off the bonnet of a Ferrari.

Attention to detail is exemplary throughout - right down to the way you can see the driver shifting in his seat on turns and wrenching the gearstick around. The game has obviously been carved out of a series of new cities and they each throw up different challenges - narrow flyovers here, opposing hairpins there, right-angled turns as roads follow the dirty metallic overhead railways and of course then there's the ridiculous delights of the Nurburgring. Although I've only been to Edinburgh of all the locations in the game, driving along Prince's Street and down some of the old alleys, then up into the hills was just amazingly lifelike - in fact I'd swear one of the routes is pretty close to the tour bus I went on last summer. Trackside detail is amazing of course, dwarfing the efforts of True Crime and The Getaway by emphasising every last detail, and I'm sure if you found the right angle you could even end up staring at the flowery clock.

The lighting is another marvel - we've already touched on the reflections, but there's just something magical about the way the pooled water on the tarmac catches the light, the way headlights cut through the dark, and the spot on realisation of tracks doused in grey skies and rain, which, as an Englishman, I can verify as a thoroughly accurate reflection of the glum weather parked outside my window. It has everything - right down to the way the water is spat back up like you're riding the deathtrap rollercoaster that is the M25 during a thunderstorm.

It's also worth noting that the decision to lock the game at 30fps seems to have paid dividends for the, er, capped crusader [I thought I vetoed that pun? -Ed]. The slowdown evident in our preview builds seems to have been eradicated, and as such it honestly didn't occur to me for several hours that this arguably wasn't running at full pelt.

Finishing post

With the end in sight, PGR2 feels like a success. As the sequel to one of the finest games of 2002 (and one of the best console launch titles ever made), it was always going to struggle to please everybody, and although it arguably does please everybody some of the time, it will be beaten down in some areas for failing to please some folks all of the time. But although there is still room for improvement on the AI front (and I still won't be rushing out to buy the CD sountrack), this is a vast challenge, the best reason to subscribe to Xbox Live bar none, and, if you give it a chance, it still hooks in you faster than a fishing rod mounted on an Enzo Ferrari. PGR may be better in some senses, but any racing fan who doesn't buy this one is beyond redemption.

9 / 10

Second Opinion - Kristan hares into view

Despite having played an unreasonable number of racing games over the past 12 months, Gotham 2 was the one I was truly looking forward to. The only one with proper online play, 11 new cities to buzz around, dozens of new cars to learn the nuances of, and an unfeasible number of tracks to get to grips with.

Fast

'Project Gotham Racing 2' Screenshot 7

For the most part PGR2 is simply a bigger, more accessible, better looking version of the last one. On the single-player side of things, don't expect to be dazzled by an all new experience - the truth is, it's the same great racing game it ever was, but with some balancing tweaks that you may or may not take kindly to.

The original Gotham was at times an intensely hardcore experience beyond the easiest levels with an almost vertical learning curve. But it was also one of the most beautifully structured punishment-reward relationships we've ever had with a videogame, resulting in endless bleary eyed 3AM sessions trying to crack the seemingly uncrackable.

Some might call this frustrating, and at times it was intensely aggravating to have to be so damned good at the game to really get the most out of it, but that was what precisely what made it so addictive and compelling in the first place, and the satisfaction from finally progressing was a magnificent feeling.

Furious

'Project Gotham Racing 2' Screenshot 8

So why am I sitting here after several weeks in the company of PGR2 feeling slightly underwhelmed by its single player experience? For a start the whole basis for progression has been dumbed down to the point that any vaguely proficient gamer could reasonably blitz through most of the medium difficulty challenges on their first or second go; the simple trick being to save up your Kudos tokens for the best car of each class and romp to victory. There's always an outstanding car, and with that equipped success is mostly a formality with any skill. As a result, all the tension of the finely balanced success/failure of the original has been removed, and while PGR2 is a far less frustrating game for it, it also feels slightly ho-hum to be able to just do a victory parade through hour upon hour of gameplay, unlocking everything with barely a pause for breath.

You can, of course, vow to only play the game on Hard or Expert and falsely set yourself a greater challenge, but while you can earn more Kudos this way, gain a better Live ranking, and rank up quicker, the overall incentive to put yourself through the pain of multiple restarts just isn't there when there's a simpler alternative available. The only reward for playing on the harder settings is a greater choice of cars (most of which are next to useless if the truth be known), and given that careful saving of tokens allows you to more or less always buy the best car the second you enter a new class anyway, what's the sense in prolonging the agony for yourself by making things arbitrarily difficult? At least part of the problem is the fact that Bizarre Creations has ramped up the harder difficulty levels since the preview build to the point now where they're almost unplayable. Before the balancing seemed - to us - to be pretty much spot on, but now the leap in difficulty seems nigh on impossible.

Better or worse?

'Project Gotham Racing 2' Screenshot 9

Meanwhile, though, I'm in two minds about the new Kudos system. While we appreciate that only losing the multiplier when you crash rather than your accumulated Kudos is less frustrating, the game seems to have balanced that up by simply being meaner with the amount of points it dishes out. Getting a decent Kudos total in some of the challenges can feel like pulling teeth; why give with one hand and take away with the other?

Things do ramp up as you progress through the classes, be there's still this rather plodding sense of mechanical victory through scores of challenges, and merely having more cities, more cars, and more tracks doesn't necessarily guarantee that it's more fun. It's more, but that's all it is, it's not necessarily better. After a short while, many of the tracks feel extremely familiar anyway, always reusing sections you've raced on several times before. We're not bemoaning the extra cities by any means, and they're a fantastic addition, but perhaps creating less but more unique tracks, would have been preferable to just padding the whole game out with subtle variations. It also strikes us as pointless to strip out the original four cities out of PGR2. We really liked London, for obvious reasons, and San Fran always brings back good memories and while we appreciate Bizarre wanted to move on, at least offering them as unlockable extras wouldn't have hurt, would it?

Living for the moment

'Project Gotham Racing 2' Screenshot 10

Just as well then, that the Live side of things really excited us in a way that the single-player never could. Online, the game is arguably one of the best adverts for the Live service to date, with not only the ability to compare your single-player performance on any track with anyone who has ever played it (including the ability to download and view their ghost), but a slick system that allows you to host or join matches exactly to your taste, then burn around putting into practise what you've been playing offline, and any Kudos you earn online can go towards unlocking anything offline, giving you an extra incentive to duff up your mates. In our experience, lag issues are almost entirely absent too, which must go down as a major result.

It's a shame that the Live ranking details on each player's track performance is limited to their Kudos score, rather than their best lap/race time as well, but we're not really complaining much. This is as far as we're concerned the Xbox Live killer app and one we'll be returning to again and again.

For me, the whole package is what's important, and although I'm essentially a little bored by the rather hollow single-player experience, the online element elevates it way beyond its rivals for now. Hats off to Bizarre for a marvellous technical achievement, hearty congrats for an excellent online offering, but slapped wrists for meddling with the already perfect progression system and balancing and tarnishing what would have otherwise been a peerless single player experience. PGR2 is easily the most important Xbox title this year for online gamers - at last Live has a true killer app. Offline gamers, though, might feel unsatisfied in the long run.

8 / 10

Read the Eurogamer.net scoring policy

Comments (84) Latest comment 8 years ago

Comments threads automatically close after 30 days, but please feel free to continue chatting on the forum!

  • Errol #1 8 years ago

  • Killerbee #2 8 years ago

    Yay! Update at last!

    8/10.

    About par for an Xbox title, no? ;)

    j/k okay?
  • Mugwum Verified Operations Director, Eurogamer Network #3 8 years ago

    Sorry this took so long. I had it all done for 1pm but our net conn AND the server decided they hated me today. Right now I hate them both with a passion so fiery that it threatens to engulf the entire county.
  • Killerbee #4 8 years ago

  • pjmaybe #5 8 years ago

    Agreed on the meanness of the kudos system, I don't know how some people manage to get platinum on the cone challenges, they're rock!

    Peej
  • Ted Cuntablast #6 8 years ago

    See! I told you it was shit!
    ;)
  • Nemesis #7 8 years ago

    Yay, reviews up!

    /nips off for a read.
  • Mugwum Verified Operations Director, Eurogamer Network #8 8 years ago

    You have Mark to, er, thank for the captions seeing as I can't even use the CMS today.
  • DevPac2 #9 8 years ago

    XBL Gamer tag = The Last Poet, signed up for the 2 month trail specifically for PGR2 :)
  • sharpkiddie Verified Lead Developer, Eurogamer Network #10 8 years ago

    Vrooooooooooooooom!
  • tannerd #11 8 years ago

    So it better than halo then...

    Good.
  • statix101 #12 8 years ago

    Pah!!!....30fps,explains everything IMO........And they STILL MAKE THE COURSES TOO DARK TO F****N SEE WHERE YOUR GOING!!!!.....

    O.k rant over...sorry....
  • Mugwum Verified Operations Director, Eurogamer Network #13 8 years ago

    "The review is okay, but misses the main point regarding the single player portion of the game. The Kudos system was changed due to gamers demands"

    Yes, and the review responds to those changes by, er, saying if they are any good.
  • prettyboytim #14 8 years ago

    So - er... what's the deal on splitscreen multiplayer? does it have 2 player splitscreen? 4 player splitscreen? Also, can you play splitscreen online, like in Moto GP2?
  • mOth #15 8 years ago

    As someone who *hates* racing games (apart from Mario Karts natch) the screenshot captions will act as my review...
  • gizmo #16 8 years ago

    You can have 4 player splitscreen, and 2 player live play with a guest as in motoGP. Yay!

    edit: echo echo echo
    Edited by 1 at 28/11/03 @ 16:28
  • Lutz #17 8 years ago

    8/10 AND 9/10
    Another double review. :)
  • brutal #18 8 years ago

    whats the ingame music like? any good, licenced tunes or is it all tat? And can you use custom soundtracks?
  • spacemuppet #19 8 years ago

    Mugs the AC.427 is the AC Cobra, basically a nice simple british 50's sportscar that Ford (and Carol Shelby, yes he was a bloke with a girls name) shoved a greatbig V8 in. They used to call them Widowmakers, because so many people killed themselves in them. Very cool car. Cost around $100K today.
  • prettyboytim #20 8 years ago

    4 player splitscreen or 2 can play on Live at once

    Yay!

    (although only one voice channel is provided)

    Even if you've got two headsets? And if you have two headsets, does it merge the audio together, or does it just ignore the guest player's headset?

  • squaylor #21 8 years ago

    "Although I've only been to Edinburgh of all the locations in the game, driving along Prince's Street and down some of the old alleys, then up into the hills was just amazingly lifelike - in fact I'd swear one of the routes is pretty close to the tour bus I went on last summer. "

    Well when my copy arrives next week I'll put this to the test and let you all know. If I can drive past my flat I'll cream myself (just a warning)
  • prettyboytim #22 8 years ago

    Yikes! I don't wanna be playing against you on Live! when that happens!
  • prettyboytim #23 8 years ago

    Hmmm - probably time to get a signal splitter, then.
  • Nemesis #24 8 years ago

    Nice review that, with warnings heeded. Will be on the Xmas list this one, I'm flat broke.

    /rattles tin
  • tiddles #25 8 years ago

    Unfortunately it completely ignores the guest's voice (even if you've got two headsets) :(

    Yet again, Bill Gates discriminates against people with two heads
  • quantumsheep #26 8 years ago

    Statix, there are options to increase the brightness in the game.
  • Khab #27 8 years ago

    I love those captions.
  • st3ph3n #28 8 years ago

    Actually, a prime original AC Cobra will set you back roughly £300K. You can get a kit version with that crazy american big block engine and delightful british sports car body for about £20-30K. It has to be blue witht he white stripes though. Anything else simply isn't right. You wouldn't buy a black ferrari now would you?

    And yes, not the quickest or best handling car in the game, but DAMN is it fun to drive. Especially round Edinburgh.
  • BartonFink #29 8 years ago

    Class reviews guys as usual.
  • IronGiant #30 8 years ago

    I'd agree with the 8 score for this game.. as i've got more important things to spend money on than Live/Broadband etc it's the offline part of the game im spending time with and it's really quite dull.

    Why cant they get this game running at 60fps?
  • mcmonkeyplc #31 8 years ago

    ah ha i knew the krudster would only give it an 8
    but great review again both of yous only i prefered mugs score :p

    Alls i can say is ive played it so much since last night that ive got a headache. A game that so good it gives me a hangover!
    What will they think of next, beer that doesnt give hangovers?
  • BartonFink #32 8 years ago

    I'd agree with the 8 score for this game.. as i've got more important things to spend money on than Live/Broadband etc it's the offline part of the game im spending time with and it's really quite dull.
    Just on a technicality the main review gave it a 9 and the second opinion was an 8. Did you read the whole review?
  • BartonFink #33 8 years ago

    Why cant they get this game running at 60fps?
    so they can throw more polygons around the place without loosing speed thus making the game more beautiful to behold.
  • st3ph3n #34 8 years ago

    It runs at a SOLID 30. You don't notice it being up and down like a whore's underpants like it would almost certainly do at 60. Its so ridiculously quick at times that you don't often have time to think "wait a minute, that was only 30 refreshes a second there". Remember, thinking gets you killed, its all reactions.

    Actually its those barriers protecting me from prime Germand Forest that are likely to get me killed. Words fail to describe the unadultared goodness that is the Nurburgring.
  • NeuralCord #35 8 years ago

    Vrrroooooooooooooooooooom! Indeed.... anyone driven the Koenigsegg yet?
  • st3ph3n #36 8 years ago

    Yeah. It handles nice, but the five speed box is a bit of a hinderance I find. Round the 'ring you really loose out to cars like the enzo with its 6 speed box.
  • Gruff #37 8 years ago

    Just got it, its insane. Started playing one on one at Florence with just the compact sports cars and 3 hours later was still on the same track trying to break into the top 1000 (got 976)

    Then i realised everyone near my score was in the Focus while i
    was in the Renault, gotta get 2 Kudos points :-)

    Great handling, excellent feeling of weight and grip. I will be playing
    this for ages
  • pac666 #38 8 years ago

    Played the demo and was underwhelmed. Car handling seemed somewhat odd and the much vaunted graphics just did not impress (Gran Turismo on PS2, or FZERO GX on Gamecube are by far the better racers).
  • Pirotic #39 8 years ago

    didnt like the demo either, got the complete game and thought it was rather average - it doesn't have any soul, the tracks are bland and empty and the single player mode is your typical work for rewards system - not as much fun as it should be.
  • mcmonkeyplc #40 8 years ago

    ok kruds i forgive you, edge gave a seven
  • Tiger_Walts #41 8 years ago

    After playing for a while now, I'd say the handling on average is actually a lot more forgiving than in the first game. This especially applies to the Pacific Muscle cars, for a moment there I thought I was playing Ridge Racer 4, untill you hit something or mess up of course.

    Tearing around Edinburgh in the super high powered cars is just crazy, when I spent (at that time) nearly all my available tokens on the Koenisegg CC, I took it on the Princes Street circuit, a track I did not know (but a town I did). It was like a sight seeing tour on FFWD!

    *BrrreeeEEEEEE* oooh Princes Street
    *SCreee-vvBrrrEEEEEEEE-Screeeevbrrreeee*
    ah look, Bank of Scotland
    *ScreeeeeeevvvbrrrrrrScreeeevvvbrrrrreee*
    Yay! Royal Mile, isn't John Knox's house aro... Yeargh! Church!
    *Screee* Castle's up there, wonder if the Tattoo is on...

    ...and so on
  • Syrette #42 8 years ago

    anyone got any information on the system link section of the game?can you play it 8 player using two televisions,thru linked play and four controllers per xbox(1 link cable,2 xbox consoles)?
    this shit means a lot to me,so please someone answer.....
  • Tiger_Walts #43 8 years ago

    "anyone got any information on the system link section of the game?"

    I'm not sure but it will probably support a maximum of 4 players per machine and a maximum of 4 linked boxes.
  • Syrette #44 8 years ago

    'I'm not sure but it will probably support a maximum of 4 players per machine and a maximum of 4 linked boxes.'
    i hope you're right.if anyone else knows anything about the system link section please say so.....
  • rIcHiEPoOh #45 8 years ago

    GT4 will only have 2 player online racing?! I dont have a PS2 but that has to suck, is that because of PS2's limitations or isit just a programming problem? MS better pound that ad stick to hell for PGR2 when GT4 comes out.
  • Cubfan #46 8 years ago

    Hahahah Eurogamer... they actually give an Xbox game a 9/10, and unsurprisingly, an extra review is tacked on at the bottom with an unshocking 8/10, the Eurogamer requisite for big Xbox titles.
    predictable.
  • HitchHiker #47 8 years ago

    This Game R0XX0RS!!

    Does it have bikes?

    :o)
  • jeff #48 8 years ago

    a fantastic racing game,simple as that,it rocks on live.
  • Harry  #49 8 years ago

    You can do that same to them. Pretty easy to put an AI car into a spin.
  • krudster #50 8 years ago

    Yeah, you're probably right. If it was single player only I'd be inclined to give it a 7, 9 for online. There just wasn't the joypad mashing excitement for me this time; Bizarre has more or less made progression a formality which takes the soul out of the game. I like the challenge, but there's really no incentive to play Hard or Expert unless you're a mashochist. PGR1 gave you a massive incentive to get good, and without this PGR2 feels strangely neutered. Anyone agree?
  • yegon #51 8 years ago

    >>>Hm, the weird Expert AI is back...

    Aah right, I thought it was just me. So many times I've lost sight of the opponent and thought, yeah, I'll catch em up, then to be royally trounced by about 20 seconds. One retry later and I'll take the lead and cruise through the challenge with 10 seconds to spare.
  • lost_soul #52 8 years ago

    Anyone agree?

    Completely.

    The reward system on the first PGR was excellent, getting access to a new car was always a great incentive to going back through the tracks you'd already beaten and trying to improve your scores and once you had unlocked that car, you wanted to go back again and see how much better you could do with it.

    PGR2 OTOH, lets you buy the fastest car in the game very early on, taking out of the game a massive ammount of fun.

    I've found PGR2 to be pretty dull offline, I'd probably return it to GAME if I didn't have Live. Online is a different kettle of fish though, even playing single player, I have an incentive to getting better scores thanks to the scoreboard. I had a lot of fun getting higher scores than anyone on my friends list!
  • trippy #53 8 years ago

    Anyone agree?

    Yup , absolutely, utterly love this game.

    Just some of the changes, I am just uncertain about , until several weeks ago, I was still firing gotham up for a quick spin round the block.
    Agree with everything you folks have said, pretty much summed the game up for me.
    I especially miss the ability to trade off time for kudos so you can tailor the game advancement to your skills.


    But i guess you could counter that by saying if they had kept the game the way it was , they probably would've copped it for not trying to innovate etc etc..

    Still brilliant though.
  • Pirotic #54 8 years ago

    i agree - microsoft need to make some more 1st party hardware,

    sadly microsoft have stopped making gaming hardware for PC's so i suspect they dont have any plans for xbox either :p all the third party guns and wheels are terrible too.

    then again im in two minds if i'd want one or not - wheels are great for simulations, but after playing PGR2 with a wheel i'd probably get accustomed to its handling and end up crashing my car on the way to the shops.
  • st3ph3n #55 8 years ago

    Pirotic, I can picture it now:

    "I swear to god officer, I was utterly certain that going round that corner at 70mph sideways was going to work. If you give me a lift back home I'll show you."
  • pjmaybe #56 8 years ago

    "Worryingly for the online ambitions of console makers, most gamers, 73%, say they prefer to play alone rather than against friends or online. A tiny 2% say they always play with others."

    (htt p://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/technology/2207229.stm)

    I hope devs take note of this - adding online capability to flagship games is fine and to be encouraged, but neglecting the single player side is going to smack them right in the financials. "


    - I hate to admit it but I would tend to agree with this. It's almost like single player no broadband no XBOX live types are being punished for not signing up. Methinks though once the extra content gets charged for, the subscription fees for live go up (next year) and devcos actually look at the online stats for games things might change.

    Have to say though, PGR2 is OK by me as a single player experience!

    Peej
  • MaTTy_P #57 8 years ago

    Can't think of anything to add to this game to make it a better racing experience (except the wheel im getting). Im curious though, what did Eurogamer give to the rather stale and boring game (now that i look back) Grand Turismo 3? was it 10 out of 10. Now get me wrong, but allthough i still played GT3 a hell of a lot, is it just me, or am i enjoying raking my Evo around a corner, getting the most points out of the craziest slide and two wheel'er you've ever seen, rather than go round and round and round, to finish 1st?

    I aint complaining at the score, but when i look back GT3 was'nt all that, and this seems so refreshing to play compared to stale drving games. Ahh the days of MSR.

    Anyhow good review, just not sure if its just me, or me giving in to hype, but this honestly does seem perfect (as perfect as we can get in this day and age).

    Now if only it had a championship mode online....

    ho hum...
  • William #58 8 years ago

    "Can't think of anything to add to this game to make it a better racing experience (except the wheel im getting)."

    How about:
    - a test track that has a large enough variety of slow / fast/ 90degrees / sequences of corner to properly assess a car
    - a cockit viewpoint that takes into account the driver's head position (the current fixed and too low viewpoint especially problematic when drafting behing other SUVs)
    - Microsoft support for proper steering wheel effects (force feedback rather than just rumble)

    Nevertheless, great game
  • Gl@eken #59 8 years ago

    On-line gaming is the future. Broadband take up in the UK and Europe is constantly increasing and once Joe public gets used to the idea of an easy to use on-line gaming method like XBox live things are really going to take off.
    In the past on-line gaming was something you had to be a little techy on to really get into but that seems to be changing with a consumer level service like XBox live. It is just going to take some time for the general console gamer out there to come to grips with the concept but it is going to happen and once it does the single player game is an endangered species.
    Personally I am PC gamer and have been playing on-line FPS's for about 4-5 years and I could never go back to single player games after the thrill of killing real people ;)
    No AI can ever compete with the true madness/stupidity/genius/skill/unpredictability of a real human.
    Ok I may be a little brainwashed by my on-line addiction but I can not believe that once most console gamers get to sample on-line gaming that they are not going to become as addicted as all of us PC gamers.

  • markypants #60 8 years ago

    What a result for microsoft!
    Now just bring Halo 2 and bring on my divorce!

  • st3ph3n #61 8 years ago

    37th in the world round Nurburgring. And that included a crash and a couple of fuck ups.

    WOOO!
  • Tiger_Walts #62 8 years ago

    markypants: "Now just bring Halo 2 and bring on my divorce!"

    Get an extra telly, a 'cube and a copy of Animal Crossing... and a Freeloader to play it with.
    Introduce the missus to 'The Crossing' before revealing any more large gaming purchases.
    Problem solved. NEXT!
  • Singularity #63 8 years ago

    37th in the world round Nurburgring. And that included a crash and a couple of fuck ups.

    Since I'm lacking Live, the chance to get my hands on the original 'Ring is the only thing making me consider upgrading from the first game.
  • st3ph3n #64 8 years ago

    Using the 911 GT1 I've clocked 6:33:734. Best time is 6:14:117 in the Speed 12.

    If I break 6:30 I get in the top 20. 6:27 and the top 10, so you can get my ghost.
  • Nemesis #65 8 years ago

    I'm last in all the Live tables.

    /walks out of thread weeping
  • st3ph3n #66 8 years ago

    i'm 11th on one of the Edinburgh tracks.
  • Nemesis #67 8 years ago

  • st3ph3n #68 8 years ago

    5th and 9th on two of the other Edinburgh ones, so my ghost is available for getting.
  • st3ph3n #69 8 years ago

    Broadband is cheaper than 2nd line + dialup ISP costs in most cases.

    You can have 512/256 as low as £20 from what I remember. And You'll struggle to get a 2nd line and a free call ISP for much cheaper than that.
  • Kavvy #70 8 years ago

    What is it with this new trend of developers of only offering one set of controls?

    They are a bunch of f**king lazy b****rds imo.

    1/10 for playability (in my case at least)

    (an accident makes it difficult for me to play using Micro$tupids "everyone is the same" set of controls)
  • pjmaybe #71 8 years ago

    This game really is horribly addictive. Big mistake owning buying this, XIII and MKDD in the same week...

    (sigh)

    Peej
  • Kavvy #72 8 years ago

    There's at least 6 different methods I can see on my copy

    And the worlds most stupid idiot award goes to....

    Me *cheers*

    Christ only knows what I was thinking, ahem... in my defence, erm I was stoned?
  • BartonFink #73 8 years ago

    Dunno about arcadey but the game is sublime.
    Gaming excellence.
  • pjmaybe #74 8 years ago

    "This may have been covered already, but could somebody plz reiterate:

    How "arcadey" is this game? "

    Depends how far you want to go down the whole "arcadey" road. For my money, it's got a decent physics engine which *DOESN'T* involve that HATED "pivot round a central point in the car" steering model (thank yew!). The cars feel like they've got a good weight to them but you can still get 'em on two wheels and off the ground on certain tracks. They're easy to drive without feeling fussy (in fact most of the cars are a lot easier to drive than in PGR1) but let's face it, any driving game is never going to truly reflect real driving though some of the things you can do in PGR2 I'm sure you could replicate in real life similarly.

    Peej
  • Spin_Dr_Wolf #75 8 years ago

    "....any driving game is never going to truly reflect real driving though some of the things you can do in PGR2 I'm sure you could replicate in real life similarly"

    Er GT3 !?!? and the engine on GT4* While some of it is realistic in its approach and representation, the cars are all charactures of what the real car handles like, the Skyline being the best example, it drives nothing like a GTR, but rather like a tamed GTS. The sliding is too power orientatd aswell, you should be able to slide any car going round a corner fast, by dablling the brake and removing the weight (and hence grip) from the rear of the car. So although you may be able to do some of the slides etc in PGR2 in a real car, it won't be the car you see on screen, and odds on there will be a different technique too. But hey, its a game, its there for fun, if you want it realistic, go to an airfield with a decent motor.



    *Statement subject to confirmation on release.
  • pjmaybe #76 8 years ago

    Kinda what I said wasn't it?

    Er, never mind. As far as it goes, there is one way in which no racing game to date has managed to reflect real driving. Show me a real car that can hit a barrier at 150 mph and just glance off with a bit of deformation here and there, but still running perfectly...

    Peej
  • st3ph3n #77 8 years ago

    150? PAH! I had a rather nasty incident doing about 180-190 round a certain German forrest. I'm sure the condition porsche would have got their 911 GT1 back in would have been a touch different in real life than in the game. (Still went sub 6:40 on that lap)

    Anyway, I've now got top 10 time trial times on all the Edinburgh tracks.
  • BartonFink #78 8 years ago

    Hmmm laps too short

    Can't remember the track but one of them I was playing last night was lapping at about 3mins in a 4 lap race. How is that too short?
  • Rothgarr #79 8 years ago

    The review says this game does not support progressive scan.

    Sure it does - that back of my box says 480P.
  • yegon #80 8 years ago

    >>The review says this game does not support progressive scan. Sure it does - that back of my box says 480P

    Not if you've got a PAL Xbox - they dont support progressive scan at all. Pathetic really. Up there with the PAL Cube not having S-Video support - c'mon Nintendo, you're having a laugh, even the n64 supported s-video.
  • Badass #81 8 years ago

    Yegon:
    er, are you sure the cube doesn't connect via s-video? Mine does, but it doesn't work on the same channel as the xbox...very strange....
  • yegon #82 8 years ago

    Really? Hmm, strange, the S-Video doesn't seem to work at all on my PAL Cube. I seem to remember fiddling around with it upon release and then read on the net there is no S-video support at all. Haven't tried it since. I can live with it though since my Xbox looks a lot better through S-video than scart on my TV, leaving the RGB oscket available for the GC.
  • binky #83 8 years ago

    hey hey- Finally got this the other day, and have only ad enough time for a couple of instant action sessions. But Boy George, its lovely and smooth!! cant wait to get stuck in.
  • yegon #84 8 years ago

    yep, hats off to Bizzarre for the netcode. The very few times Ive seen others lag, its been down to them leaving loads of other stuff downloading on their PC