Metal Gear Solid: The Twin Snakes Review

Can MGS make a decent case this long after the original Shadow Moses incident?

Version tested: GameCube

Direct remakes are a peculiar breed. They're not the same as the "re-imagining", a category into which some of the best and worst games of the 21st century have fallen, and yet they're obviously not sequels. With videogame remakes, this oddness is compounded by differing formats, saddling us not only with the worry of whether the game stands up to its progenitor and similar titles of the day, but also the question of who if anybody is likely to buy it, not to mention why? Quite a pickle - albeit in this case a deliciously absorbent one overflowing with the creative juices of gaming luminary Hideo Kojima, and one that cleverly inherits a lot of its sequel's enhancements...

One man's war on terror

'Metal Gear Solid: The Twin Snakes' Screenshot 1

Playing through this for the first time though, such questions are clearly unimportant. Far more pressing questions like "who the hell is that blonde guy?", "why is the camera so bleeding awful?" and "eh?" will dominate the mental landscape. Metal Gear Solid, you see, is a game driven or rather dictated by a central yarn about terrorism in Alaska, which gradually unravels as you take control of anti-terrorist extraordinaire Solid Snake and try to infiltrate a nuclear disposal facility, which has been taken over by your former comrades-in-arms and could be used in launching a nuclear weapon. And, put simply, although there's a decent amount of a great game underneath, there's very little point taking the plunge if you're not prepared to watch it as much as you play it.

Back in 1998, MGS was a game unlike almost anything that had come before. It had looks, mechanics and movie-like production values at a time when such things rarely made it into the same box as one another, and since then it has influenced many games in a multitude of different genres. As a result of this its impact today is less groundbreaking than previously, but it's still largely unrivalled in terms of storytelling whimsy, even by enormously cinematic games like latter day Final Fantasy titles. It also remains a distinctly enjoyable yarn about terrorism and genetic manipulation, and perhaps does a better job of tapping into the cultural zeitgeist than it did in those pre-9/11 days, back when we weren't technically "at war" with one issue and arguing with French scientists about the other.

Even at that it's still a hugely enjoyable conspiracy to get involved in, and it's a tale filled with subtlety, borne out over several hours of cut sequences (hence the two disc format) and a great deal of codec conversations (a sort of radio system that all the key players get involved with). It's riddled with moments of genuine and deliberate humour, too - often well delivered by the re-recorded voice acting team - not to mention brimming with more emotive dialogue, and if you allow yourself to be drawn in by it and take it all seriously, it's a reasonably affecting tale about the important things in life and love, rife with clever misdirection and heart-wrenching plot twists.

Son of Sons

'Metal Gear Solid: The Twin Snakes' Screenshot 2

Underneath the reams of dialogue and slick presentation though, there is a core game element, much of which will seem very familiar now thanks to the original MGS' success. In other words, it's been pillaged for inspiration by virtually every stealth-action title in recent years, and plenty more besides. But while familiarity may breed contempt, there are still enough moments of genius spread throughout it, and the style, pacing and execution are well worthy of applause even six years later.

Part of that is down to some degree of inheritance from its younger sibling, Metal Gear Solid 2: Sons of Liberty. Originally Snake was capable of walking, running, crawling, leaning up against and peering round walls, fighting enemies hand-to-hand, sneaking up on them, shooting them from a distance, leaping over a few objects, and utilising a wide variety of high and low-tech gadgets. In the intervening period he's picked up a number of new abilities, and can now tumble into a crawl, target and shoot things in first-person (individual limbs on enemies, cameras, headshots, etc), make use of tranquiliser weapons (and shovel limp bodies into lockers), and hang from rails to evade detection.

With a couple of caveats (the use of digital rather than analogue control for general movement, for example), it's a system that works very well even with only minor refinements, and it means that the body of the work ahead of Solid Snake - sneaking through well-guarded areas without drawing undue attention, for the most part, and scouring the base in search of objectives - can be carried out without encountering too many unreasonable pitfalls. Allowing the player to continue from the last room entered is another decision that stands up today. Less enterprising sadly is the method of portraying the action from room to room.

Stuck in gear

'Metal Gear Solid: The Twin Snakes' Screenshot 3

MGS' camera generally frames the action from different static or panning "cinematic" angles that change fluidly as you move around the Alaskan facility. The problem with this system is threefold: one, even with the radar feature activated it means guards sometimes see you before you see them; two, the controls switch fluidly with the angle and this can cause you to lose your sense of which way is up (particularly aggravating when trying to evade things); and three, it means you often accidentally run into inconspicuous edges so that Snake sidles up against them, switching the camera again and sometimes causing you to panic and do something rash or unhelpful. In short, it creates an artificial layer of difficulty, and it's something that ought to have been addressed between 1998 and 2004. It is, after all, a bit much to expect us to continue putting up with a game where you have to guess where a tank is located during one particular section that crops up a couple of hours in.

On the whole though it's bearable, and you won't find yourself moaning about it all that often. Perhaps more upsetting is that for all his gadgets, Snake still can't seem to do more than string a couple of punches together in close quarters. With two key boss fights relying on the hand-to-hand mechanics, you'd think six years might have encouraged Konami, Silicon Knights or any of the other folks involved to change it a bit, but no. The re-shot cut-scenes full of noticeably Matrix-inspired acrobatic combat underline this shortcoming, and even if it's not a major issue it's still a little disappointing.

Then again, he does have a lot of gadgets. Solid Snake is unquestionably a very versatile charge, even by modern standards. Apart from his basic skills, he can also make use of complex tools like infrared goggles and mine detectors, but isn't afraid of relying on low-tech solutions like cigarettes (good for highlighting those IR beams, albeit with health repercussions), boxes for hiding under, and even magazines with raunchy centrefolds to distract guards. The best thing though is that many of Snake's tools and tactics are optional extras - you can quite happily make it through the entire game without holding up a guard to pinch his dog tags, for example, or hanging from a railing, and it's this sort of variety that gives you options in the game's tougher moments, not to mention incentive to replay it in the future.

We can rebuild you...

'Metal Gear Solid: The Twin Snakes' Screenshot 4

Fortunately few if any of Snake's enemies are capable of this sort of versatility, even if they do share some things in common with him on one or two levels [wink]. Guards here are generally of one cast, although they don't all dress the same, and like their counterparts in MGS2 they will react to a glimpse of you, a loud noise, or the sight of a fallen comrade. When they come looking they're quite attentive, too, even going so far as to search lockers, boxes and through open doorways if they're actually on alert. On the other hand though, they also fail to follow you through doors that involve a short loading delay, and fail to spot you if you're over a certain distance away in the same room. Granted, these are quirks that you generally appreciate when it comes to making actual progress, since it's often difficult to shed the guards' attention by conventional means, but still we'd be fools not to cite them as some manner of flaw.

Another flaw is the issue of slowdown, which is particularly irritating during the ascent of a communications tower late on and intermittently intrusive elsewhere. On the whole though it's worth it - to look back on the original MGS now is to look upon a rather ugly game, and by dragging the game up to MGS2 standards Silicon Knights has done us all a real favour. Characters are very well modelled, and startlingly believable in cut sequences (even if the facial animation, facial shadowing and, um, "hair mechanics" aren't always up there with the rest of the body), while increased geometry detail, some nice particle weather effects, higher polygon environments and better texturing mean it's a much more enjoyable view of a game that would look hideously low-resolution by modern standards.

Backing up the visuals is an incredibly stirring soundtrack and a range of sound effects and voice acting that cement the game's reputation as a solid example of largely seamless storytelling. The voice acting deserves particular note. It may be a little hammy on occasion (and a couple of minor parts appear to have switched ethnicity since 1998), but characters like Ocelot, Campbell and the inimitable Solid Snake himself continue to sound just right. In a game that delivers as much in hands-off exposition as it does in tangible involvement, strong voice acting makes a big difference.

Tale of two serpents

'Metal Gear Solid: The Twin Snakes' Screenshot 5

Perhaps surprisingly though, since the game's release in 1998 its storytelling has become the subject of criticism and even derision from some people, most of whom will complain that it drowns out what is otherwise a very enjoyable game for the sake of revelling in the director's fantasy. That the game is over in between eight and twelve hours the first time through (depending on your skill and the difficulty level, and with only a slightly different ending, some stealth camo gear/bandana/clothing extras to look forward to on replays) perhaps backs that up. But that view doesn't wash with us.

Sure, Metal Gear Solid is not what a lot of people will expect coming to a "stealth-action" game, it's not the sort of game that stands up to repeated play in the same way as something more formulaically brilliant like Splinter Cell, and it is guilty at times of failing to differentiate between key facts and peripheral info during conversations, but there's an old argument that says you wouldn't give a football game to a reviewer who hates sports, and similarly you wouldn't give a Hideo Kojima game to somebody who doesn't enjoy soaking up a good story. If you want to criticise the strength of that story, that's up to you, but it's our job to tell you what we think of it, and we found it engaging, emotional and rewarding, if unabashedly long-winded.

What's more, without Kojima's intractable whimsy we wouldn't get to enjoy the game's key strength: its willingness to play by its own rules. This is no mere game of three levels and then boss fight, or anything of the sort. It isn't afraid of throwing multiple boss fights at you in succession (albeit with a pause to save, natch), of torturing you, or forcing you to change the way you play in order to compensate for lost radar or tools. It's home to some true variety - you'll fight an Indian in a tank, a sniper, a helicopter, and plenty more besides - and some true genius. Psycho Mantis, one of the terrorist ringleaders, seems worthy of particular mention here for offering a genuinely post-modern take on the classic videogame boss encounter (and rejigged somewhat since the PSone days to please existing fans, too).

So, no, we're not going to use this as an opportunity to join the merry bandwagon and lay into Metal Gear Solid for being what it is. Our criticisms are clear and well documented already. Otherwise our only other slight concern is the straightness of the port. While Capcom's Resident Evil remake reworked key sequences to scare you in new ways, often playing on your expectations with a clever bit of misdirection, Twin Snakes does nothing of the sort. That's something newcomers won't have to worry about of course, but old hands may view as a missed opportunity.

Remains Solid

All of which brings us full circle to the question of rating the remake. Newcomers? Buy it if you think you can handle a game that's as much a story as it is a game. It may take you half an hour to pick up (hint: take a chance where Splinter Cell has taught you not to), but it's an experience that you will cherish for a long time to come, full of characters you'll care about and want to follow in the future. Better yet, these are characters you can follow immediately by picking up Metal Gear Solid 2 on PS2 Platinum, or MGS2: Substance.

As for those of you who cherished the original game? This is the best pair of rose-tinted spectacles money can buy, and a good alternative to the anti-climax of seeing how a once-cherished favourite has aged. If you only have a fading memory of the game you once loved, playing The Twin Snakes is akin to watching an old movie and seeing it the way your mind's eye remembers it, complete with technical improvements you couldn't even imagine at the time. It's an experience that we don't often get to appreciate as gamers or otherwise. On the other hand though, it's also another £40 to spend, and that may play a role in making the decision for you, particularly if you have a solid recollection of everything that once unfolded so magically on a tiny little portable TV in your bedroom.

As for us? Well... Let's just say we're content to live for ourselves on this occasion.

8 / 10

Read the Eurogamer.net scoring policy

Comments (78) Latest comment 7 years ago

Comments threads automatically close after 30 days, but please feel free to continue chatting on the forum!

  • templar-wizard #1 8 years ago

    score too high.

    its a gfx update with some filler and longer cutscenes.
    6/10.

    if you must have it, buy it for £5 on psx for your ps2. there is no real difference.

    all remakes must stop!!!!!

    edit: what did Miyamoto and Kojima actually DO on this game? Silicon Knights did the actual porting, they got an outside party to remix the cutscenes... hmmm interesting...

    Buy pandora tomorrow instead, at least it tries to do something new.
    Edited by 1 at 30/03/04 @ 10:11
  • Blerk #2 8 years ago

    Grumble grumble mutter Silicon Knights mutter mutter deserve better bitch whine moan grumble waste of talent tch meh.
  • ssuellid #3 8 years ago

    Nice review.

    " leaning up against and peering round walls (a move he invented, incidentally), " - I thought it was Tenchu or was MGS out first?
  • renzo #4 8 years ago

    "if you must have it, buy it for £5 on psx for your ps2. there is no real difference."

    C'mon! That's bullshit and you know it. I expect smarter comments from you TM! :p

    And not EVERYONE played this game on the PS1.
  • renzo #5 8 years ago

    Oh, and I haven't read the review yet... just wanted to know: any spoilers in there?
  • Han_Solo #6 8 years ago

    Nice game, but very short! I was expecting more from it, I think I spent more time watching the cut scenes than actually playing the game (Very nice they were to).
  • Killerbee #7 8 years ago

    just wanted to know: any spoilers in there?

    Nope. :)

    Great review. I'm definitely going to get this as soon as I've made some space in my current gaming pile.

    Happy to be a newcomer to this game (though I have completed MGS2) and benefit from the tarted up graphics.

    Slightly concerned by the codec overuse but by all accounts the superior story in this one should keep me happy.
  • Dizzy #8 8 years ago

    It's "ok" but stealth games have moved on to a new level with SC. Snake retired in 1998.
  • BradlayLaw #9 8 years ago

    It's a lot harder than I remember it. I had trouble getting into the base, something which I did pretty easily on the PSOne.
  • Rizo #10 8 years ago

    Eurogamer once again over rates a Nintendo game.
  • Rizo #11 8 years ago

    Same score as Farcry for a remake of a PSX game eh.........controversial ;-)

    Nope bullshit
  • Mugwum Verified Operations Director, Eurogamer Network #12 8 years ago

    No, it's a conspiracy. We're being paid. PAY ATTENTION.
  • Mugwum Verified Operations Director, Eurogamer Network #13 8 years ago

    It's not exclusive, Spong had it months ago.
  • EVERYGAMER #14 8 years ago

    "As for those of you who cherished the original game? This is the best pair of rose-tinted spectacles money can buy, and a good alternative to the anti-climax of seeing how a once-cherished favourite has aged. If you only have a fading memory of the game you once loved, playing The Twin Snakes is akin to watching an old movie and seeing it the way your mind's eye remembers it, complete with technical improvements you couldn't even imagine at the time.

    Tom, truer words have never been spoken. You sum up my entire experience of revisiting this classic in that quote above.
    I even nipped out and picked up MGS substance once I'd finished it.

    P.S anyone who liked the revamped cutscenes should check out VERSUS
    as Ryuhei Kitamura its director was the genius who directed all the new shots http://www.kss-movie .com/versus/
  • elevenses #15 8 years ago

    Sort of tempted by this as I never finished the playstation version (got really annoyed at the cheap way it extended the playtime-but that appears to be just me) but then again the original is only €10.....
    No problem with re-makes (though putting more in than updated graphics would be nice) the really sad thing is how important this seems to Nintendo. As a port of a very old game it should have been a nice inclusion to the Nintendo line up - not a major release. With the hype for the new MGS starting this all seems a bit sad......
  • EVERYGAMER #16 8 years ago

    Nintendo knows its fans and theres nothing a "Nintedite" (made that up)likes more than a wayward child coming back to the family.
    Final Fantasy was on Nintendo first and so was MGS before they both defected to PSX. It seems silly but I'm sure it makes a difference to those people who refuse to own any system other than a Ninty one.
  • CyberClaw #17 8 years ago

    "and fail to spot you if you're over a certain distance away in the same room."
    It's called gameplay balancing. If they saw you miles away it would make the game too hard to be enjoyable. They played with the values of the range of the enemies eyesight until it was chalanging enough and still enjoyable. Realistic? Nope. More fun? You bet.

    I have one question to ask. If the guards could spot you accross a section (like normal people would) - and you couldn't get past the first area because you kept getting caught, as a reviewer, would you write something like "although the game is too hard trying to be too realistic. Remember devs, this is a game - fun first."

    That's my only complain on this article. Although I did loose the interest one paragraph later ^^;
  • Mugwum Verified Operations Director, Eurogamer Network #18 8 years ago

    I did point out that it's only technically a flaw, and that it actually works in your favour...
  • MikeD #19 8 years ago

    It's not personal opinion Wopr, it's a professional review.

    Not saying I disagree with the review/score, just saying that 'opinion' is a nonsensical and worthless argument to justify something.
  • renzo #20 8 years ago

    I can't understand everyones negativity towards this game. I don't remember people whining this much about the Resident Evil remake.

    If you didn't like MGS then, you're not going to like it now. Go play Splinter Cell or something.
  • CyberClaw #21 8 years ago

    I know you did point it out. But it's not a flaw that works in your favor (IMO). That sounds like a bug or error, that the player takes avatange.
    It's actually a gameplay balance - to keep the game fun - and avoid getting fustrating.
  • EVERYGAMER #22 8 years ago

    Hmmm If as a gamer you dont like MGS then you probably dont have a soft spot for stealth games anyway, so Splinter Cell would just wind you up somthing chronic :)
    Edited by 1 at 30/03/04 @ 11:50
  • EVERYGAMER #23 8 years ago

    @ Eighthours

    So did your parents name you after your mental age ? :)
  • Philip Gumm #24 8 years ago

    Yeah but if MGS 2 and MGS TS were to go head to head bearing in mind the person playing has never played a MGS title before which would win? 8 for a person thats played 9 for someone that hasn't.
  • CyberClaw #25 8 years ago

    MGS TS would win against MGS 2 - had the person played it before or not. I hope it's not nostalgia clouding my mind :)
  • Kami #26 8 years ago

    Looks great.

    The, so did MGS back in it's day, and it didn't really float my boat then. I'll have to give this a rent and see if it does anything more for me today...
  • EVERYGAMER #27 8 years ago

    MGS has the better story and characters. Everyone I know who has played MGS 2 agrees that the story kinda disappeared up its own Arse towards the end, plus who wants to play as Raiden? I doubt the game would have had such a great reception on its original release (MGS 2) if we'd known we would'nt get to play as Snake trough the whole game!
    Edited by 1 at 30/03/04 @ 12:16
  • Kami #28 8 years ago

    Raiden was unacceptable.

    And the nakers bit was just VERY VERY VERY VERY WRONG!


    You're right though EveryGamer. I doubt it would have sold half as well if we'd had known that Snake was going to play such a small part.
  • renzo #29 8 years ago

    Raiden wasn't THAT bad. And at least they didn't show his wang or anything. ;)
  • Kami #30 8 years ago

    Renzo, thats the problem... he desperately tried to hide his manhood (That is, of course, assuming that pansy actually HAD any manhood!).

    It was still just very wrong... ugh. No. *hits head against wall to clear memories of a nakers Raiden*
  • Aretak #31 8 years ago

    A couple of comments on the voice acting.

    Mei Ling sounds like a fucking peppy 12-year old schoolgirl in this version, compared to the sophisticated person she sounded in the original. They should have kept her light Chinese accent.

    Naomi on the other hand just sounds bored, and it's like her lines are just being read out from a piece of paper with no emotion in them. The Colonel sounds pretty much the same, but in this version he pronounces a few words in a different way, and there are some of his lines missing (as there are for all the characters). One thing that is noticable is that he sounds more robotic in this version compared to the original, not showing as much emotion. That may have been left over from his role in Sons Of Liberty, and the VA simply had become used to speaking like... well, I won't say as it would spoil some of Metal Gear Solid 2 for you, but you'll probably know what I mean when you complete that.

    Raven sounds better than he did in the first one I think, but again, missing dialogue for him makes his speeches sound less powerful. The one after you beat him in the tank was longer in the original, and he worded it much better. In this one he doesn't have the same way with words that he does in the original.

    Liquid sounds great, and a few dodgy lines aside, is better than he was in the original. Ocelot sounds better in this one too, and has a much better accent. Speaking of accents, Natasha sounds fucking retarded in this version. In the original she had a thick Russian accent, but in this one she slips between a neutral accent, a light Russian accent and an American accent. It's annoying... but at least she's a minor character.

    Meryl sounds just about exactly the same, and so do Mantis, the DARPA Chief and Snake (although a few of his lines sound retarded in the rewritten script). I actually like Grey Fox's voice better in this one than in the original, so changing the VA in that case was a good decision in my opinion. Sniper Wolf just sounds a little different... I don't really prefer her voice one way or the other.

    As for Otacon sounding emotionless at times in this one, I agree. One example that stands out is when he tells you the soldiers in the stealth camo. are in the lift with you. In this version he says it almost like he's telling you a recipie for chicken vindaloo. In the original he said it with much more emotion, and that seems to be a general theme with his performance.

    So, really it's a mixed bag. There are some performances that are better in this version, some that are roughly the same, and some which, in my opinion, are shockingly bad (step forward Mei Ling). Some major speeches were messed with script-wise though, which may have been to shorten them for disc space reasons, but every change that I noticed was for the worse. You really do need to play the original and this remake close together to notice the major script differences, but they are there, and they are a weak point in my opinion.

    Still a great game though, and one I recommend to every GameCube owner.
  • Celeborn #32 8 years ago

    "Eurogamer once again over rates a Nintendo game"

    "Why is it that you Eurogamer folks have to report every single negative piece of information about the Cube you can find and rarely we see any of the positive ones"

    *sighs* :p
  • Zero Beat #33 8 years ago

    The document of MGS2 clearly proves that Raiden has no meat.
  • funk #34 8 years ago

    i've just started playing the original splinter cell for the pc but also just got metal gear solid
    should i play metal gear solid first? seems like it might be a step down after playing splinter cell, i prefer to play inferior games first so i'm not thinking "that other game did this so much better"
  • Jolly Red Dwarf #35 8 years ago

    templar wizard Wrote:
    score too high.

    its a gfx update with some filler and longer cutscenes.
    6/10.

    if you must have it, buy it for £5 on psx for your ps2. there is no real difference.

    all remakes must stop!!!!!

    edit: what did Miyamoto and Kojima actually DO on this game? Silicon Knights did the actual porting, they got an outside party to remix the cutscenes... hmmm interesting...

    Buy pandora tomorrow instead, at least it tries to do something new.


    Isn't Pandora Tomorrow a remake? To me a sequel is a remake, funny I haven't got Xbox live but I'm finding SCPT, more of a upgrade than a whole new experience.
  • Sid-Nice #36 8 years ago

    I found both MGS and Splinter Cell tediously boring.
  • Freek #37 8 years ago

    Played the original, loved it, just picked this up, still love it.
    Camera doesn't bother me, what's more of an isseu is that the game is so much easier. And that's not just becuase of the newly added first person shoot mode.


    POSSIBLE SPOILERS FOR NEW PLAYERS!

    The game's changed to make it easier, boss fights shortend(Grey Fox fight in lab), certain alarm triggers removed, less soldiers to shoot when it does happen (the run up the stairs in the com tower). Torture-button-mashing sequence so easy and short it's almost silly.

    But it's still fun. There's also replay value in the dog tags you can steal from soldiers and the different possible events and outcomes.
    MORE SPOILERS:
    My brother's also playing the game and he had some different things happen to him, he escaped the prison by being aided by Grey Fox, I used the ketchup to get out and then Jonny had an atack of diarea so he coulden't stop me.
    He also had the thermo key stollen by a rat and needed to set a C4 trap to get it back.



    /Spoilers over.

    So i'm definetly going to play throuhg it a second time, just like the PSX version. If you enojoy stealth games i'd recommend picking this up.
    Edited by 1 at 30/03/04 @ 21:37
  • Dizzy #38 8 years ago

    Here we go again. For the last time: convulted Japanese MGS pseudo nonsense does NOT make a good story. Go watch some Evangelion!
  • Jolly Red Dwarf #39 8 years ago

    What Dizzy Wrote: is almost a story:
    Here we go again. For the last time: convulted Japanese MGS pseudo nonsense does NOT make a good story. Go watch some Evangelion!
  • Rob #40 8 years ago

    what's more of an isseu is that the game is so much easier

    Eh? What difficulty setting are you playing, as the Extreme setting is significantly harder than anything in the original release IMO.
  • CyberClaw #41 8 years ago

    Freek, I think most, if not all of those things happened in the PSX original game. For ex. the rat thing you said also happened to me, and I had to be running arround, sniper in hand, trying to kill the fucker :)
    MGS is one example of a prime game for it's time. Good story, good characters, good voice acting, inovative gameplay, and even if short - different enough in the 2nd and 3rd run, that you actually want to play for better ranking. The rat incident only happened in my 4th or 5th run. I was amused that the game could still throw new stuff at me.
  • CyberClaw #42 8 years ago

    Eighthours, as a writer, all you can give is your opinion. You could try to give your unbiased opinion - but that's nearly impossible for a human to do. MGS script, and backstory (the things snake isn't told nor says, but you find out either by taking your own conclusions - or by readin the files that come with the game) are simply amazing. That's my biased opinion (although it was the first Metal Gear I played - I instantly became a fan).

    Moreover the way they integrate the gameplay with the gamescript is still to be matched :)

    I'd like to make 2 questions which contain spoilers about the old MGS (the questions are directed at those who have the MGSTS) regarding "puzzles"
    -The Psicomantis fight still has the "2 sides of the brain" thing?
    -Do you still have to find the box to get the codec code?

    Reading the above questions won't be a spoiler if you don't know what I'm talking about. (these are clues given to you to solve some puzzles in the original MGS). Is it still in MGSTS?
    Edited by 1 at 31/03/04 @ 11:47
  • Celeborn #43 8 years ago

    Derek: you sound like the guy from the elephant.co.uk advert: repeating the SC:pT name over and over again in the hope that it brainwashes us into buying it.

    IMO, MGS and SC are 2 different games: SC takes itself much more seriously and realistic: MGS has more of a story (whether you like it or not), personality and style. Different people like different styles within the genre: MGS is the best in how it goes about a stealth game, SC the best in its method. Almost like comparing Sensible Soccer to Pro Evolution Soccer......

    Ok, bad analogy, but you know what I mean.
  • EVERYGAMER #44 8 years ago

    As a writer, I can tell you that the script for MGS is bad. Bad bad bad. Good game though!

    As a gamer, I can tell you that the reason I rate MGS over games like Splinter Cell is because of the story. I played and completed the original Splinter Cell and while its graphics are admirable it lacked emotion and the ability to help the player empathise with Sam Fisher. Plenty of game play is great but not when you dont care why your doing it or what happens to the main character. I cared about Snake and Meryl and even the bosses had their own story and motives. " As a writer" you of all people should appreciate the importance of compelling the gamer or reader to continue, to want to unravel the next part of the plot.

    I just found Splinter Cell to be inferior to MGS. I mean how many people do you think will want to buy a remake of Splinter Cell in 6 years time, How many people will even remember it?
  • UncleLou #45 8 years ago

    The perfect stealth game would be a mixture of the two. A story that's not as generic and uninspired as in SC, but less convoluted and pathetic than the one in MGS. The style of MGS and the tons of cool little ideas that are in there, but the camera perspective, control mechanisms and level variety of SC.

    /dreams

    As it is, I see the benefits of both games, but personally prefer the Splinter Cell gameplay by a mile.
  • Kami #46 8 years ago

    Have to say, I like both MGS and Splinter Cell. Both are really dodgy plot-wise, but both are quality titles.


    ...

    At least MGS makes more sense the MGS2... was I the only one towards the end of MGS2 thinking, "OK, what the **** is going on?"
  • Freek #47 8 years ago

    Instead of just saying "it's bad" could you guys explaine a bitt more why you think it's bad?

    The only thing that seems a bitt overdone to me is that Snake can never just kill an enemy, he has to spend half an hour in conversation with him/her feeling sad about it.
    Edited by 1 at 31/03/04 @ 15:26
  • EVERYGAMER #48 8 years ago

    Right ..... Everyone whos played MGS 1 remember back to the 2nd Sniper wolf boss battle in the snow field. Got it? good, remember once you'd beaten her you have the cut scene with Octacon and Wolf asking to be put out of her misery. Remeber how you felt when he stands over her and aims his USP, you know whats coming and you can tear your eyes from the screen, the camera pans up into the barrel of the gun and then BANG fade to white!!!

    Without the conversation before hand and the emotion involved that scene would'nt have had half the impact. That is why MGS is better than Splinter Cell. Its scenes like that ,that make you go back for another go like watching a favourite movie.
  • EVERYGAMER #49 8 years ago

    Derek, your insult implies that my mother only slept with gamers and while I cannot fault her choice in companions ( after all we have excellent social skills and hand-eye co-ordination ) I doubt the validity of your statement.

    However she did keep mentioning a Tom Bramwell, somthing about never bothering to call round and see his little EVERYGAMER :)
    Edited by 2 at 31/03/04 @ 15:51
  • Mugwum Verified Operations Director, Eurogamer Network #50 8 years ago

    Who what where what?
  • EVERYGAMER #51 8 years ago

  • Kami #52 8 years ago

    LOL @ Everygamer! :-D


    Seriously guys, COOL DOWN! Jeez, stop taking things so personally... Insults will get you no-where. Why not just agree to disagree - not everyone thinks MGS makes sense. So just say, "Well, you have your opinion, I have mine, now lets get on and be nice to each other".


    Lets just all get along, OK?

    *dodges the rotting fruit and concrete bricks being thrown*
  • Mugwum Verified Operations Director, Eurogamer Network #53 8 years ago

    All this talk about the script is quite interesting (and nice to see - I feared for this thread once people started down the MGS vs. SC path).

    Personally I think the dialogue doesn't always work and is needlessly long-winded in quite a few areas (not like me AT ALL), but the overall story is interesting and absorbing enough, and when put in the context of the overall game proved to be the ideal carrot for me.

    I expect that in 10 years time when the games industry has grown up a bit more and we have more professional script doctors and the like doing the rounds, a second remake of MGS will be utterly fabulous ;-)
  • EVERYGAMER #54 8 years ago

    Hey Mugs you owe me for 26 Birthdays and Christmas's, cough up :)
  • Mugwum Verified Operations Director, Eurogamer Network #55 8 years ago

    I think it's somewhat unlikely that I'm your Dad if you're 26...
  • EVERYGAMER #56 8 years ago

    @ Derek

    Oh don't worry about it I was'nt insulted. All in the name of healthy debate.
  • EVERYGAMER #57 8 years ago

    Not if I'm lying about my age to get more presents:)
  • Kami #58 8 years ago

    See, just FEEL the love people!

    *gets hit in the face by a stray brick being thrown*
  • EVERYGAMER #59 8 years ago

    I love this!!
    I wish my Mum was here so I could get her to sign in as EVERYGAMERS MUM and retort:) then we could get everyones parents online and break down that generation gap.

    A little too much info thou dont you think Eighthours Dad?
    Edited by 1 at 31/03/04 @ 16:17
  • Kami #60 8 years ago

    Lol.

    Be thankful some of you have parents.
  • Sid-Nice #61 8 years ago

    This is great this:( Not the game ) the thread.
  • EVERYGAMER #62 8 years ago

    Well it would be wrong for me to comment on Pandora Tomorrow at this point as I have't played it. I was comparing the originals of the series Metal Gear Solid and SplinterCell. I am very interested in the multiplayer aspect of SC:pD but dont think it justifies buying the game at full price.

    I will agree with you that the Codec conversations can at times serve no real purpose other than to bore the player, but its part of the overall charm of the game, These people are in mortal danger and still have time to discuss Love, Genetics and Chinesse proverbs, its what makes them more human.

    (You know in a funny way this thread has turned into a kind of Codec exchange, complete with conflict, humor and the discussion of Genetics. kind of)
  • Kami #63 8 years ago

    Yup, this topic is as pointless and long-winded as some of the MGS codec conversations.

    Gotta love it.
  • EVERYGAMER #64 8 years ago

    @ Eighthours
    Why are you sorry about my mum? I'm at work and She's in Wales, thats why I wish she was here lol.

    P.S Kami, your quite right its wrong to make light of others loses, but as my dad is actually dead I kinda feel I have a little leeway.
  • killerbob #65 8 years ago

    what i think Eighthours is getting at with his 'MGS is bad writing' comments, is that..
    (and, don't get me wrong, i'm a HUGE fan of the series)

    the story and characters are good, and those are what keep making us play the game. BUT the way the story is fed to us (even though the story itself is great) is often just bad storytelling. with this, i'm mostly pointing to the longwinded codec conversations. i mean, what we get out of it in the end, all the information about the setting and characters' backstory and whatnot, could by better writing have been fed to us much faster and more intelligently, making it much less of a patience killer.

    the game is poorly written, from a writer's perspective. there are better ways to get emotional about the characters than spending hours listening to their, dare i say, hammy dialogues.

    games get away with loads of semi-decent storytelling, because the length and commitment you make to a game is very much longer than say, a movie. making us cry over the death of aeris in FF7 (come on, if this is a spoiler, get your head out of your ass!) after protecting and rescuing her for say, 20 hours, is such an easy storytellers' accomplishment opposed to say, making us cry our guts out after a 1h30min movie..

    so: mgs story/characters/etc. = good,
    but: the way all the info is fed to us = bad storytelling
  • EVERYGAMER #66 8 years ago

    Aeris died in FF7? Noooooo!!!!
    Next you'll tell me Darth Vader is somehow related to Luke Skywalker or somthing?
  • EVERYGAMER #67 8 years ago

    @ Eighthours

    Yeah I don't have Live! yet as I have been subscribed to SW Galaxies for the last 6 months and can't afford both:( So I cant really enjoy the Multiplayer at its best at the moment.
  • Kami #68 8 years ago

    Umm... how are we going to break this to Everygamer? ;)


    ps:

    Kami, your quite right its wrong to make light of others loses, but as my dad is actually dead I kinda feel I have a little leeway.

    My dad is also dead, and I was fostered out when I was younger and more rebellious. Hence why I said earlier, that some people ought to treat their parents with a little more respect because an awful lot of us don't have parents. That said, my foster family and my grandarents were brilliant in my upbringing. Sadly, my grams passed away less than two months ago.

    Some people should be really, REALLY thankful they have any parents at all... some of us never had that luxury.


    But yeah, I think you have a right to be a bit light with the subject. I'm just saying, be careful with the jokes - you might level them at the wrong person and then theres trouble.


    Serious note over: we now return you to your regularly scheduled topic!
  • EVERYGAMER #69 8 years ago

    Couldn't have put it better myself Kami. Its just a risk you take when discussing stuff with anybody. I'm just glad you are mature and eloquent enough to understand that there was no malice or patronising intended :)

    P.S Sorry bout your Grams
    Edited by 1 at 31/03/04 @ 16:58
  • killerbob #70 8 years ago

    tightening the storytelling slack to right between longwinded and robotic would be the absolute *makes chef's thumb&indexfinger sign* muah!
  • bungalooBunny #71 8 years ago

    Cmon Nintendo fanboys, this is just another quick cash-in for Konami and Nintendo. To whoever idiotically compared it to Res Evil remake, this MGS game doesn't have graphics & levels made from scratch - they are just slightly tarted up PSX graphics.

    For 20 quid it would be an interesting buy, for 40 it's just a rip off.

    Res Evil 4, now THAT is worth buying the Cube for..
    Edited by 1 at 31/03/04 @ 20:18
  • bungalooBunny #72 8 years ago

    I'm not saying anything other than don't overrate this game simply because the GC has lack of good games. RE1 remake was worth the money, this one isn't.. that's all.
  • bungalooBunny #73 8 years ago

    I wasn't talking about 'liking different things'. I liked MGS1 a LOT, more even than any RE title but it's not about what type of games you like. I'm addressing the fact this is a cheap conversion, where they basically took the old graphics/code from the ps1 and ported it over to the Cube, improving the graphics only slightly.

    I remember this kind of thing on the Dreamcast and it was sad to see the publishers so eager for easy cash-ins. I admit this one isn't as bad as those DC ports from PSX but MGS2 is an original title and the graphics are much superior to this - just take a look at both Snake's faces and it's obvious. Don't get me wrong - I thought MGS1 was much superior to MGS2 as a game and would love to see a remake, but only if done properly.

    At least with the remake of RE1 Capcom had the decency of keeping ONLY the story, everything else was done from scratch, making the GC justice.

    TTS looks like a game that could easily run on the Dreamcast - that's a sign this is not a remake, simply a conversion worth 20 squid..
  • CyberClaw #74 8 years ago

    Can I give my opinion in the codec? That was part of the experience.

    They wanted to pull you in the game. And part of that, is having long winded conversations on how to land your foot to avoid making the sound of a footstep. You spend the whole game on foot literally. If you want to go somewhere, you need to jump into the back of a truck and take a ride.
    SPOILER:
    In the long elevator scene, I think they just want to get you anxious. It's all part of bigger experiences. Some worked, some didn't. The changing controler port, memory card reading, the getting the codec in the box - all that was part of a big experience. Things not tried before.
    END SPOILER

    Although I agree - it's a pain those long codecs (specially the elevator one). So it's an experience that didn't work.
  • CyberClaw #75 8 years ago

    "Not to mention a cyborg ninja who deflects bullets with a SWORD. I'm sorry, but the whole premise of deflecting something as fast and piercing as a bullet with a thin, steel blade is more far-fetched than any "bullet-time" effect or acrobatic I can think of. And that was there since the original. "
    Well the blade power isn't the steal itself, but the resonance it produces. It's a kind of ultra sonic sword. As for the stealth (which you didn't mention) there is one university somewhere in Japan that were able to do ship that daunted me. The technology isn't perfect, but it's getting there. Very Ghost in the Shell or MGS if you ask me (and I'm talking real life here - google it - optical camo).

    [i"]At least you don't see Ocelot spin around and kill eight guards with a six-shooter, or a Metal Gear that was just in the holds suddenly be the size of the whole ship when it exits it. Not to mention the plot holes. Oh, God, the plot holes... "[/i]
    Yes. He kills 8 guards with a six shooter each. Although you seem to forget mentioning he has TWO six shooters (one straped on the front, the other behind his back - watch the scene again). And keep in mind revolvers don't need to be six shooters. They can very have 8 or even 12 bullets drums.

    What really anoyed me in MGS2 was the "nostalgia moments" where you had to do something similar in the game to MGS1. The plant intro (with snake going in the elevator), is just a small example. Anoyingly I can name at least 30 major plot details that were homages to MGS1.
  • Philip Gumm #76 8 years ago

    Yeah but that was the whole basic plot line with MGS2...The fact that it was designed to re-create the 'original' MGS, instead of being virtual, they tried to train soldiers in the same light as Solid Snake, but putting them under exactly...Or at least almost indenticle plot devices and scenarios.

    And the fact that a Cyborg ninja cant bloke bullets? He cant move his sword that fast but he can move it as you pull the trigger and the bullet therefore deflects off it. .... Gesss ;)
  • Jim-Bob #77 8 years ago

    Much harder than th original. Very very grey. Too grey. I wish I had left it on the shelf to be honest.
  • darkphoenix #78 7 years ago

    Well, this is a major disapointment.
    For someone looking for an ultimate version of MGS, you better choose the PSX original.

    I am a long time MGS fan, and it's really painfull to see how Silicon Knights messed up every cut-scene with a ridiculous Matrix-style.

    They should've just concentrate in improving the graphics ( and adding some MGS2 mechanics ), how hard can that be????

    Missed oportunity, and by far, the worst GC game I own.