Metal Gear Solid 3: Subsistence Review

Snake in the grass.

Version tested: PlayStation 2

While it's not a delicacy that any of us have had the (mis)fortune to sample, snake eating turned out to be surprisingly palatable when it was served up as part of Hideo Kojima's third Metal Gear Solid instalment. We liked MGS3; rather a lot, in fact. It was almost everything that MGS2 should have been - stunning graphics, great combat, a flexible and entertaining stealth system, inspired boss battles and a storyline which didn't end with what might as well have been Raiden waking up and finding out that it was all a dream. Admittedly, it was still a bit too heavy on the codec dialogue sequences - including a particularly dreadful bit of pacing near the start of the game - but with genuinely great storytelling and gameplay on offer, it's hard not to be in a forgiving mood for such foibles.

Almost two years later - we originally reviewed the US version of Snake Eater in November 2004, although it didn't arrive in Europe for some time after that - we're back in the middle of Metal Gear hype. MGS4 has had three major trailers, each more impressive than the last, and even the shock of seeing "Old Snake" has worn down as anticipation builds for the series' first PS3 outing. Which makes it a little odd that Konami has chosen this moment to try and persuade gamers to buy Metal Gear Solid 3 - again.

MGS3: Subsistence is, to some extent, the director's cut of the game - or perhaps more appropriately, the DVD set full of mysterious additional discs of extras. Upon opening the box, no fewer than three discs come tumbling out of the package (literally, in the case of the somewhat flimsy cases our review copies were supplied in) - one bearing the original game, albeit slightly tarted up, and the other two being filled with extras, titbits and bonuses.

Insert Disc One

'Metal Gear Solid 3: Subsistence' Screenshot 1

Let's talk about the original game first. We won't talk about it for long, because we already did that - two years ago. It was an eight out of ten then, and the benefit of hindsight still suggests that it's an eight with pretensions of being a nine - a flawed game, in other words, but nonetheless a genuinely great game. It remains one of the best-looking games on the PS2, and popping the disc into the system after being away for so long was a timely reminder of just how much Sony's humble system was capable of in the graphics department when it was truly pushed. The graphics of the game haven't changed one iota between Snake Eater and Subsistence, but it still looks great even now, with a level of detail both in the environments and the characters which is truly impressive irrespective of the hardware it runs on.

What has changed in Subistence, then? The biggest change is the addition of a new camera control system, which gives you the ability to move a third-person camera around the scene using semi-manual controls. That might not sound like much to players of other third-person action games, and indeed it'll be instantly familiar to any regular game player - but it actually changes quite a lot about the mechanics. No longer will you have to flick into first-person view to keep an eye out for enemies who are outside your current camera angle, for a start - and boss encounters, in particular, are much more entertaining and dynamic when you're not struggling with the camera all the time. The new camera is such an improvement that it's actually the default camera in Subsistence, and you need to go into the options screen to turn on the old-style fixed camera tracks.

That, however, is pretty much the only major improvement you'll find in the original game. Aside from that, and a few additions to the wardrobe of camouflage and face paint (none of them massively useful, although there's a certain gotta catch 'em all mentality about such costumes), Snake Eater is just as you recall it, or as you don't recall it if you've never played it. It's about 15 hours long, and after the pacing difficulties of the early sections, worth every minute. The new camera marks a definite improvement which fixes some of the key issues with the gameplay, so if you're going to play through - or replay - Snake Eater, this is definitely the version of choice for that purpose. Handily, you can even switch between the two at the touch of a button, giving you even more visual flexibility in tight situations. Aside from that - nothing much to see here. Move along.

Bonus Track

'Metal Gear Solid 3: Subsistence' Screenshot 2

The next disc is rather more interesting. It's here that you'll find the bonus content that makes Subsistence genuinely interesting - and while the comparison with DVD box sets is probably a bit unflattering (after all, when was the last time you actually watched the commentary track from the executive producer, the local butcher and the co-star's step-mum on a movie, or settled down to the one-hour documentary about how they hid the cellulite on the lead actress' legs or got Industrial Light and Magic to digitally remove the lead actor's unsightly back hair?), Konami has actually pulled out all the stops to ensure that there's genuine depth to the content on offer here.

Let's consider some of the smaller extras first - some of which you will have missed if you bought the US original and didn't wait for the bumper PAL edition of MGS3. These add in a number of modes which are basically designed to give you access to more interesting bits of MGS3 out of the context of the main game. So, for example, there's the demo theatre, which allows you to view any cut-scene in the game - a worthy addition in a game with so many excellent cinematic moments. Be warned, however, that the demo theatre makes no note of where you are in the game, so if you haven't played through the full single-player experience, it's perfectly possible to ruin the story for yourself by dipping into this option.

More interesting than that is the new duel mode, which allows you to take the boss battles from MGS3 out of context and play through them in order to be graded on your performance. These, too, were a major highlight of the game, and being able to try them out on their own - especially with the grading system in place - is a nice touch. It's also fun to try them with some of the more unusual weapons on offer, since you get the option of loading Snake out from a vast selection of weaponry before each engagement.

'Metal Gear Solid 3: Subsistence' Screenshot 3

It wouldn't be Metal Gear Solid, though, without some slightly oddball humour - and perhaps predictably, the Snake Vs Monkey mini-game from the original MGS3 makes a return, with several new (and remarkably well designed) levels for you to run around capturing Ape Escape's siren-headed chimps. Thoughtfully, the team has also included the full set of MGS3 parody videos which were originally posted on the Internet - rendered in-engine, they're a perfect example of Kojima and his team's capacity for self-deprecation, and are also very, very funny in places. If nothing else, they're a handy reminder of why we're sometimes happy to indulge Kojima flights of pretension which we'd slam other game creators for - he may yammer on a bit about the meaning of war, but at least he knows he's being ridiculous.

As a final topic under the "titbits" category, albeit a somewhat incongruous one, it's worth mentioning another of Subsistence's brand new additions: the inclusion of the MSX versions of Metal Gear and Metal Gear 2: Solid Snake, the games which kicked off the whole series. Never before seen in Europe - in fact, the second game has never been translated before, as far as we're aware - they're actually surprisingly good fun, especially Metal Gear 2, which really shows the origins of MGS' storytelling and characterisation. It's a bit harsh to call these titbits - they're both huge games, really, and you could sink dozens of hours into completing them - but we can't imagine that very many players will choose to do so. Although they're still fun, they're for the retro completist only - a nice addition to the pack, but arguably of interest only to a limited number of players.

Snaking Online

The really, truly massive addition to Subsistence also resides on the bonus disc - and that's Metal Gear Online, a selection of game modes using characters, weapons and environments adapted from MGS3 to create a number of online arenas. Now, before we start, let's be clear - this runs on the PS2 Online service, and as such it experiences many of the frustrations with the setup procedure and so on that all PS2 Online games do, for some users at least. However, we're reviewing MGS3 Subsistence here, not Sony's online efforts - so we're going to dispense with all mention of the time it took to get the online service set up, and so on, and just talk about the experience of playing Subsistence online.

That experience is worth talking about, too - because it's almost uniformly excellent. You may not expect it from a Japanese developer - and we have to confess that we didn't, really - but what Kojima Productions has created here is actually an extremely competent and well-balanced online shooter, which successfully combines the sneaking and manoeuvring of Metal Gear Solid with the kind of action that we've all come to expect from online shoot-'em-ups.

There are five core modes to the online game, each of which supports up to eight players. Deathmatch and team deathmatch are the two most basic modes, and by far the least interesting - they offer little opportunity to play around with the additional movement and sneaking abilities which Metal Gear offers over other shoot-'em-ups, and the action feels very random and disjointed due to the realistic levels of damage inflicted by weaponry. The other three modes are Capture Mission, Rescue Mission, and Sneaking Mission - each of which offers a very different style of gameplay and a very different challenge to players.

Capture Mission and Rescue Mission are both team-based games; the former sees each team trying to grab an objective item (a cute toy frog, actually) and drag it back to their base for as long as possible, while in the latter, one team is tasked with defending a rubber duck while the other team attempts to grab it and bring it back to their base. Although the two play modes sound quite similar, the tactics involved in each one are quite different - rescue mission is particularly interesting, because not only does it clearly define an attacking and a defending team, it also adopts the Counter-Strike mechanic of killing players permanently, so if you die, you sit out until the next round.

'Metal Gear Solid 3: Subsistence' Screenshot 4

In each mode, you have a variety of very typically MGS moves available to you. The new camera (the third person one we talked about only a few brief paragraphs ago) is the default view, but you drop into first-person mode to aim and fire - an interesting mechanic which slows the game down appreciably and makes everything a bit more tactical than the frantic bullet-spray of something like Counter-Strike. You can also crawl around in the lush foliage which the game lifts from MGS3's various jungle stages, flatten yourself against walls to reduce your profile, camouflage yourself (which works surprisingly well against human adversaries, actually) and even hide in a cardboard box (which doesn't, because everyone just develops a psychotic habit of shooting the hell out of every cardboard box in sight) or drop porn mags to distract enemies (actually, this worked more than once, which is an unexpected bonus of the "my god, is everyone in this game a 14-year-old with ADHD and Tourettes?" online gaming syndrome).

The final mode in the online game is particularly interesting, because it pits one player against all of the others in a sneaking mission - where one player is "it", and plays Snake, while all of the others attempt to prevent him from grabbing a roll of microfilm and escaping with it before the timer runs out. Sounds a bit unbalanced, but actually, the odds are stacked quite evenly, because Snake is capable of camouflaging himself so effectively that he appears to be invisible when he's not holding either the film or a weapon. Obviously, you can all take turns at playing Snake in this scenario, and it's a particularly fun one to play if you can't get the numbers together for a decent team game of Capture or Rescue.

One crucial element of the multiplayer which Metal Gear Online gets very, very right is the wealth of options available to players, with the setup of your matches being incredibly customisable. If you're settling in to play with friends for a while, for example, a really useful option is the ability set up a playlist of scenarios which you work through - thus saving you from setting up a new game every time the old one finishes. The ability to see persistent statistics of your various accomplishments is also nice, and the game tracks everything in minute detail, giving reams of stats to look through when you're finished playing.

Snake Eaten

'Metal Gear Solid 3: Subsistence' Screenshot 5

The final disc in the box is the least interesting - included as a bonus disc in the special edition of Subsistence in the USA, but available to everyone who buys it in Europe, it's a DVD with re-cut versions of the cut-scenes of the game, allowing you to effectively watch it as a somewhat disjointed movie. You also get the MGS4 footage from TGS 2005, which is nice - but then again, if you're a fan of the game you'll have seen that a dozen times already. Not terribly exciting, in other words, but a nice bonus disc to have.

The real question, then, is whether all of this justifies going out and buying Metal Gear Solid 3 again - to which the answer is "probably not". If the online modes appeal to you - and they really are very good fun, although obviously it helps if you have some friends to play against rather than hunting for pick-up games - then it's not a bad investment, and if you've never played MGS3 before it's a must-buy. That's what we've made our final judgement based on; while this may not be great value for someone who paid full price for the game previously, for collectors, online gaming fans or people who haven't played MGS3, this is absolutely the definitive version of one of the finest games on the PlayStation 2. If MGS3 scraped very close to a nine, then the addition of online modes and the vastly improved camera in Subsistence easily pushes it past that point in pure quality terms - but as a caveat to the dizzyingly high score, we would point out that the original game can, of course, be picked up cheaply now. Put it like this - if price is a big issue for you, then buying a two-year-old game with bonus content and a better camera for full price will probably sting. But if you simply want the best possible experience of one of the best games of the current generation, then this is the only option.

9 / 10

Read the Eurogamer.net scoring policy

Comments (66) Latest comment 5 years ago

Comments threads automatically close after 30 days, but please feel free to continue chatting on the forum!

  • Cyclone #1 5 years ago

    It really is a fantastic game. I'm just at the second Volgin fight at the minute.
  • TripleSeven #2 5 years ago

    Once it reaches a price point below 20€ probably. I won't be paying full (although reduced) price yet again.
  • spongebob #3 5 years ago

    Here comes an unrelated note that takes the thread back to the next-gen console wars!

    So even though PS3 might not have that many great games made for it when it launches, it looks like that if you don't have PS2 yet (and I don't anymore) you're going to have at least some fun playing all these top scoring PS2 games.

  • Hughes. #4 5 years ago

    It's sweet as a nut. I keep meaning to start the main game disc, but somehow the Persistence disc stays in the drive and I play another 2-3 hours online instead.

    Anyone who feels like killing me (form an orderly queue) search for "I Am Hughes".

    From a quick play on the actual game, they seem to have moved the Kerotan frogs to different locations, for those of us who found them all last time.

    Edit: Oh, and the Secret Theatre stuff on Disc 2 has some bizarre, and bloody hilarious stuff, including a good deal more piss-taking at Raiden's expense.
    Edited by 1 at 24/10/06 @ 14:47
  • TripleSeven #5 5 years ago

    Stupid frogs and statues. Didn't like them since Sons of Liberty.

    edit:

    I assume most of these funny trailers have been available for download before the actual release of the new package.
    Edited by 1 at 24/10/06 @ 14:50
  • lemonfist #6 5 years ago

    I hadn't played the original MGS3 so I bought this and have enjoyed it immensely. It's so much better than the previous two games. A bit dull to begin with, but once you get that AK47 it just gets better and better.

    Also has less frequent cutscenes than the previous games, I think.
    Edited by 1 at 24/10/06 @ 14:54
  • mrsquare #7 5 years ago

    pff - I've had snake. Just walk down a road in Beijing at you get it practically stuffed down your throat.

    edit: oh, right - the royal Eurogamer "us". Ignore me.
    Edited by 1 at 24/10/06 @ 15:09
  • AcidSnake #8 5 years ago

    Pure genius...
    Better gameplay than the first two, and much better story than the second...
    Finished it a few days ago...
    Can't wait to restart the adventure and get the cobra's camo's...
    Sadly, I have no fast internet connection where I live...so no persistence... :(

    /tries to revolve his mouse like a Colt Single Action Army
    /Fails
  • Xerx3s #9 5 years ago

    "Snake in the grass." should have been "Mother fucking snakes in the mother fucking grass!"

    And it's funny to see that there are ppl yet again sad enough to rate games a 1.0.
  • lambtron #10 5 years ago

  • X #11 5 years ago

    Never played MGS3 yet, so i'll be picking this bad boy up.
  • crazyhorse174 #12 5 years ago

    Might sound like a stupid question - so I apologise in advance - but I played MGS2 a few years ago and quite frankly found it very dull...is this a lot better??
  • pjmaybe #13 5 years ago

    Best setting for a MGS game. Worst gameplay though imho.

    Peej
  • Arwin #14 5 years ago

    I picked it up too, and of course, I had DNAS errors.

    By the way, these flash commercials are getting out of hand. Each time I go to this site my computer's fan starts spinning up, and up, and up ...
  • AcidSnake #15 5 years ago

    @lambtron:
    Holy shit...
    The Sony bad presswagon just got itself brandspanking new afterburners...
    This will sting...
  • Hog-lumps #16 5 years ago

    The online mode is marlous - it's really well balanced and well, just plain fun!

    One comment the review got wrong about the online mode was this;

    but you drop into first-person mode to aim and fire - an interesting mechanic which slows the game down appreciably

    You can actually shoot from third person as well when online.
  • lambtron #17 5 years ago

    @AcidSnake
    This bit I especially like, Uber-Corperate-Hypocrisy FTUL :(

    "Furthermore, Sony have failed to disclose to the London High Court that not only the world wide gaming community in more than 100 countries relied on Lik-Sang for their gaming needs, but also Sony Europe's very own top directors repeatedly got their Sony PSP hard or software imports in nicely packed Lik-Sang parcels with free Lik-Sang Mugs or Lik-Sang Badge Holders, starting just two days after Japan's official release, as early as 14th of December 2004 (more than nine months earlier than the legal action). The list of PSP related Sony Europe orders reads like the who's who of the videogames industry, and includes Ray Maguire (Managing Director, Sony Computer Entertainment Europe Ltd), Alan Duncan (UK Marketing Director, Sony Computer Entertainment Europe Ltd), Chris Sorrell (Creative Director, Sony Computer Entertainment Europe Ltd), Rob Parkin (Development Director, Sony Computer Entertainment Europe Limited), just to name a few."
  • Xerx3s #18 5 years ago

    Completely off topic but...

    F**kin Sony!

    http://www .lik-sang.com/news.php?artc=3901


    And then ppl say that MS is evil...
  • spongebob #19 5 years ago

    Bad news but

    It’s the beginning of the end... of the World as we know it", stated Pascal Clarysse, formerly known as the Marketing Manager of Lik-Sang.com.

    Is a bit of an overstatement, innit?
    Edited by 1 at 24/10/06 @ 16:02
  • tonynibbles #20 5 years ago

    This game is sooo good. Played the beta ages ago now, but it is teh win.

    OMG!

    /buys PS2 game that isn't SingStar or Guitar Hero.
  • alexg #21 5 years ago

    I got this game but couldn't play it because every time you duck down into the grass, the game automatically goes into first person view.

    In third person view, you can see where the enemies are in relation to Snake, but as soon as it goes into first person, all you can see is grass in front of you.

    Unless there's some way around this, the game seems completely unplayable to me.

    It would be nice to be able to play this game though since clearly it's supposed to be good...
  • Hog-lumps #22 5 years ago

    I got this game but couldn't play it because every time you duck down into the grass, the game automatically goes into first person view.

    I think the theory is that the grass restricts your view so you cant see around in 3rd person. It's like the lockers in MGS2 - the restricted view helps to build tension when you're hiding from enemies and sneaking in the undergrowth....

    Not sure why you think it's unplayable becuase of this game mechanic though?
  • alexg #23 5 years ago

    I see...

    But it makes it unplayable because it's completely disorientating. You totally lose track of where the enemies are. Then you have to stand up to check where they are. Then you get spotted. Then you get killed. Over and over again...

    Bah! i think I need to watch a walkthrough or something. I must be doing something wrong...
  • Dr.Mott #24 5 years ago

    Dammit, I wish I hadn't sold my PS2 now. :(
  • Hog-lumps #25 5 years ago

    Have you tried holding L2 & R2 similtaneously? I think it makes snake poke his head over the grass and allows you to look without exposing yourself.

    Also if you tap the stand button instead of holding, he goes to a crouch position instead of a standing straight up........
    Edited by 1 at 24/10/06 @ 16:44
  • kazuya555 #26 5 years ago

    Ok heres the question everyones been waiting for.....


    Does it have a 60hz switch ?
  • alexg #27 5 years ago

    No, crouch makes you poke your head above the grass. True, he's still crouching, but the guards instantly spot him.

    The whole thing is just so unwieldy - it should just stay in third person - having to go into first person to aim a weapon and firing by letting go of the button - Ugh.

    Even using the circle button to confirm things in menu instead of X which is standard for every other game - why does it have to be so damn awkward - I just want to play it...
  • Steroyd #28 5 years ago

    The circle thing is the standard button in the eastern world while the X button is the standard button in the western world.

    If you were to get a Japaneese PSP Circle is accept and X is cancel.

    If you hold R1 and R2 + L2 your head will go up to look at just above the grass.

    Been planning to get this game this Friday along with Pro Evo 6 and hopefully Disgaea 2. :)
  • Hog-lumps #29 5 years ago

    No, crouch makes you poke your head above the grass. True, he's still crouching, but the guards instantly spot him.

    The whole thing is just so unwieldy - it should just stay in third person - having to go into first person to aim a weapon and firing by letting go of the button - Ugh.

    Even using the circle button to confirm things in menu instead of X which is standard for every other game - why does it have to be so damn awkward - I just want to play it...


    Have you tried L2 & R2? I think it peers over the grass without crouching up?

    Also you CAN shoot from third person - I think you need to hold L1 at the same time as square (I cant remember precisely...........) With this method you can run and shoot at the same time.


  • alexg #30 5 years ago

    So alL I have to do is hold R1 L2 while twisting my arm behind my back pressing circle, standing on my head and holding R2 simultaeously. Okay. Simple!

    ;-)
  • OnlyMe #31 5 years ago

    You're not trying very hard, are you? I mean, if you think the game's unplayable because of the first person view when in the grass, you're not a very good player. Also, try using more than just the grass to hide in. With the right camouflage you don't need to hide in the grass, just lay still on the ground to "blend in". They won't see you unless you move or get really close to you.
  • Hog-lumps #32 5 years ago

    alex g, perhaps you should read the instruction manual? ;-)
    Edited by 1 at 24/10/06 @ 17:39
  • alexg #33 5 years ago

    I 'm not very good no. But I could play Splinter Cell okay...

    And I have an aversion to reading manuals. Don't make me do it!

    Still, in the end I'd just prefer have the OPTION for the game not to automatically decide to go into first person view when it feels like it - that's my only real gripe.
    Edited by 1 at 24/10/06 @ 17:44
  • Scimarad #34 5 years ago

    I bought MGS3 ages ago because I saw it cheap and STILL haven't got around to playing beyond the very beginning.
  • captain-future #35 5 years ago

    Good good, now tell me why did we have to wait a full year for this?
  • OnlyMe #36 5 years ago

    MGS3 is the best in the series, with MGS1 a very close second, or even shared first place. This should've been the version we got from the start, but I'm such a big fan of the series, and the fact that I saved myself from playing it again until I got this version made me buy this anyway. I didn't have the PAL release anyway, so I wanted to get the best version, and now I have MGS2 Substance and MGS3 Subsistance.

    And if you haven't played it already, and your excuse being the camera-angle, there's really no excuse not to buy this now. It's one of the ten best games on the PS2 and should be in the shelf (or in the PS2) of every game collectors library.
  • nickthegun #37 5 years ago

    If you were to get a Japaneese PSP Circle is accept and X is cancel.

    and its the most annoying thing in the whole world. Playing a game, going to the home screen and going backwards through every freakin menu.....
  • Mr_Brown #38 5 years ago

    Would have brought this a year ago, too late now.
  • Hughes. #39 5 years ago

    Re: the X button O switch, the Final Fantasy's used to be exactly the same, you settle into it unless you are a frequent game hopper. Several hundred hours of various Final Fantasies and probably a hundred hours on the MGS games means I rarely make the mistake more than once, going back to the "START" screen from the menu screen sets me back in the habit.

    Z.O.E 1 & 2 used it as well, Kojima must be a stickler for it.

    I doubt there's any other game maker who can get me to buy the same game twice.
  • Feanor #40 5 years ago

    Xenosaga also uses Circle for yes and X for no. Bloody hard to remember that when you're also playing KH 2 which uses X for yes.
    Edited by 1 at 24/10/06 @ 21:12
  • HIGHVOLTAGE #41 5 years ago

    Balls MG3 was pants. J'accuse Metal Gear of being nowt more than a sacred cow. To the guy who didn't like MG2 don't buy this its even worse. The cutscenes are even longer and more inane. When I say inane I mean digging a pit that is so deep there is no bottom. Sample cutscene, well not even a cutscene really this is meant to be gameplay: you have to climb up a very long ladder and by long I mean it takes the award for longest ladder in a game ever. Whole minutes of your life go by that you wonder why you are wasting. Why does the game do this? So it can play its comically bad "Snaaaaaaaaaaaaaaakeee Eaaaaateeeeeer" sub-sub-sub-x500 par Bond rip off anthem at you. The proper cutscenes are even worse still going on for about 20 minutes at a time of badly plotted, geeky matrix bollix effects, self indulgent dribble. This would be fine if the game played well but the jungle enviroment just plays the same as the corridors and rooms of the old titles. It doesn't feel like your in an actual jungle there's no gameplay evolution at all here. Infact its a backwards step if anything as in the old games you just hid behind a wall or barrel and did things at pace. They also gave you a decent radar to make up for the limited vision. Here you have to hide in a bush, go in the menu and camouflage up as the enemies will still see you otherwise, wait for 10 years for guard to walk past, jump out, go to menu (again) change camouflage otherwise enemies at long range will spot you, kill guard and then in the original MG3 get spotted by a guard who you couldn't see because the camera always pointed north, die fighting or even more boring run away and hide then repeat monotonous process again. Maybe the new camera improves this or maybe it doesn't. I'm more inclined to believe alexg than any of the fans. At least in the old Metal Gears you could always look forward to some highly inventive and exciting boss fights. Nope not in this one: all crap, the only ones that stand out are the old fart and the Boss and they're nowt special. Oh there's also a really bad Panzer Dragoon clone on rails shooty bit with wibbly wobbly controls too at the end.
    Does it still have that song by shite indie bedwetters Star Sailor on the outro when you complete it? I hope very average tune sums up what is a very average game really. Metal Gear Solid was a masterpiece but the sequels have got worse with every instalment. MG4 better turn out to be more than pretty cutscenes, but I suspect we are seeing a pattern here. And why are people so impressed by the camera? Wow it finally does a moving camera s'not like Dreamcast, Xbox and Gamecube games have all been doing this for years. But hey lets make it out as a real achievement and not just the simple brutal truth that the PS2 is not only well technically short of Xbox+Gamecube power but Dreamcast power. Wow look everyone Dreamcast quality graphics on a PS2 at long last how did they do it!?!
    I believe the PS2 can somehow just about barely handle Resisdent Evil 4 so buy that instead if you don't have it and see what a real sequel plays like. `
    Edited by 1 at 24/10/06 @ 21:22
  • patchbox360 #42 5 years ago

  • Hughes. #43 5 years ago

    Wow indeed, a lesser-spotted embittered Dreamcast fan. Don't see many of those these days, they've mostly shifted to the MS camp to give XBox/360 owners a bad name with their bileous crapulence. That bit about the ladder was pretty funny though! :¬]
  • dudefella #44 5 years ago

    shit, I didn't read all that, but I noticed you got to the end... so you hated the game all throughout but finished it anyway? Wow, you must really have NO life at all. Also, you type really badly. In fact, I think you fail at life =)
  • OnlyMe #45 5 years ago

    I thought that ladder part was genious. Really built up a nice atmosphere with the song in the background - which I think gets too little love. I find it better than just about 99% of the James Bond songs.
  • Garibaldi #46 5 years ago

    Widescreen, Progressive Scan? Considering how bad the original MGS3 looks on my HDTV these are the things I'm most concerned about.
  • OnlyMe #47 5 years ago

    :(

    Sorry, none of those. But I'm looking forward to playing it on my future PS3, as it will be upscaled.

    And get a new TV, my HDTV is pretty cheap, and it shows SD signals pretty well compared to the first TV I tried. That was just horrible. Once again, I found that I can't fail with picking Sony tv-sets.
  • Steroyd #48 5 years ago

    Wow I know people have opinions and all but... wow.

    Hang on didn't RE4 "just" have a new camera angle?

    /fears he enraged the Dreamcast fan.
  • Hog-lumps #49 5 years ago

    HIGHVOLTAGE, you could do with a few seperate pargraphs in that post - it gave me a headache trying to read it!
  • wizbob #50 5 years ago


    I've only been playing for a little bit and the controls are awkward but not game-breaking. You have to laugh at the spiky responses to anyone who says that the controls are broken.

    Offered reasons why the controls are, in fact, adequate;

    - You're stupid and haven't read the manual
    - You're a Dreamcast fanboy
    - You have no life, you finished the game anyway
    - I can't read anything without paragraph breaks

    Let me add a few;

    - You have webbed fingers, surgery will be required to get the most out of MGS3
    - I am angry and worried about the future of the PS3
    - Millions of people are dying in Africa
    - PsychoMantis actually swapped the X and O buttons, get used to it soldier!

  • AcidSnake #51 5 years ago

    Wait a minute!
    Wasn't Psycho Mantis dead!?

    Oh right, it's in the past....
    That bastard!
  • Garibaldi #52 5 years ago

    I only just bought this t.v onlyme! I'm not a Tzar, you know. :)

    Why do so few PS2 games have widescreen, is it really that hard to impliment? Getting quite pissed off with it, tbh.

    As regards the branding, unfortunatly I've decided to boycot all Sony products after their recent clowning.
  • HIGHVOLTAGE #53 5 years ago

    B'ah who needs paragraphs when ranting. Ok here's some for you:

    Thanks to the lads who made all the usual you've got bad playing skills/social retard/you're biased claims people make when they know somebody made valid points and they...just can't... can't think... of any decent comebacks cause they really know deep down everything you've said is true... and they can't disprove any of it. It, it means a lot to me thank you, no thank you. It couldn't be that I just disliked MG3 now could it?

    Special mention must go to the chap who slates me for actually playing the game the whole way through like an open minded person and not just turning it off after 10mins like some chav retard. Er maybe I played it the whole way through cause I like paid my hard earned cash for it and because I was actually trying to give it a chance all the way to the bitter end. "Go on MG3 maybe you'll get better around the next corner, oh dear you haven't....." Shocker I'm actually a big fan of PS1 MGS- just not its sequels.

    Oh and if I was over zealous in my PS2 bashing its because I bought a PS2 expecting it to be able to do games of the quality of Resident Evil 4 from day one after the ridiculous over hyping of its power. My PS2 hatred is based on going out to the shop buying latest hyped game expecting it to be good and then finding it to be cack time and time again. I've barely played on the machine it just comes out of the cupboard and goes back in. I think the only game that's ever impressed me on the machine is Katamari Damacy.

    I've played on my X-box, Gamecube and (I'm so biased) Dreamcast a bit more. If I come across as biased to that system its because I find it farcical that a dead console which had f'all 3rd party support produced games that I've enjoyed a hell of a lot more than the likes of the utterly souless MG3. What do you all just get some sort of S&M perverse pleasure out of Sony ripping you off with software that could've been better? Demand better or they'll just keep the standard low.

    If you think I'm just Sony hater I'm prone to bouts of bashing everyone cause to me gaming is just dying on its arse. The qualities gone, no original games get made anymore and when they do they flop and the publisher goes bankrupt. Yeah its not like I haven't got other things to do but every now I then I feel a little bit sad that something I once loved is fading away. Kinda like watching an old Pal slowly die from cancer really. I blame hyped turkeys like this for the rot. People lash out at the likes of EA, fair enough. But are Konami seriously any better? I think not.




  • Lex_Luthor #54 5 years ago

  • HIGHVOLTAGE #55 5 years ago

    "What a clown." Thank you darling, still nobody can think of an intelligent response that disproves anything I've said about MG3. Bored now off to have that life I occasionally go back into. With my webbed feet of course. Riiivet!
  • Steroyd #56 5 years ago

    At one time I owned a PS2, Xbox and Gamecube and i'm still biased towards PS2 owning all consoles mean squat in terms of bias.
  • Hughes. #57 5 years ago

    Well, if you believed Crazy Ken Kutaragi's hype circa 1999-2000 I can see why you'd be disappointed, but for me the generational leap last time makes the current efforts to move gaming along look pretty weak (so I can see where your opinion that gaming is dying on its arse comes from) But, MGS3 is far from soulless, it's rich in visual detail, humour, tension and is not without a good emotional punch at times. That Star Sailor music at the end is fucking shite though, I'll concede that without any objection.

    The other formats of the last generation are all as good as dead, but there are still some top of the line titles on the way for PS2, and this edition of MGS3 is something I've been looking forward to for a good long time, I'm loving it. I'm sure you wished you'd enjoyed it, having spent your cash and been a fan of the original, but it's obvious a great deal of love and effort went into this from Kojima, so comparing to EA's by the numbers cack and annual sports updates doesn't really wash with me.

    That was one fucking big ladder though, eh?

    "Some day, you'll feed on a tree frog!" sing with me now!
    "Snaaaaaaaaake Eedddurrrrrrrr!"
  • Lex_Luthor #58 5 years ago

    "Thank you darling, still nobody can think of an intelligent response that disproves anything I've said about MG3. Bored now off to have that life I occasionally go back into. With my webbed feet of course. Riiivet!"

    How do you disprove an opinion? I could argue your points of course, but I see little point when you've so clearly made your mind up already.
  • patchbox360 #59 5 years ago

    HIGHVOLTAGE

    you'll be playing mgs4 on ps3 soon, just relax
  • Hog-lumps #60 5 years ago

    I think everyone agrees you’re entitled to your opinion HIGH-V, it's just your essay-long posts come across as an aggressive rant without taking into account other peoples equally valid opinions which you dismiss outright. (e.g you accuse us of getting "some sort of S&M perverse pleasure out of Sony ripping you off" - yeah, cheers for that!)

    Yes, I agree MGS 3 isn't without it's faults and quirks, but if you are able to look past these you'll find an incredibly rewarding, deep and tense game which allows for a variety of different play-styles each and every time you attempt a scenario. The story whilst not to everyone’s taste, is very interesting and very well directed compared to most video games.

    You mention there are no games worth playing for the PS2. If I could just point you in the direction of ICO or SOTC.......they justify the PS2's existence on their own.
    Edited by 1 at 26/10/06 @ 16:18
  • Steroyd #61 5 years ago

    *sigh* so you want someone to rip you're essay apart and dispute the parts in which people disagree...

    i'll try.

    The cutscenes are even longer and more inane.

    Cutscenes or more to the point Codecs actually die down later in the game not increase like Metal Gear Solid 1 & 2.

    Says something about a ladder...

    So it can play its comically bad "Snaaaaaaaaaaaaaaakeee Eaaaaateeeeeer" sub-sub-sub-x500 par Bond rip off anthem at you.


    The whole game was set in the 1960's the bond rip-off was so you to give the effect that you're in that timzone.

    It doesn't feel like your in an actual jungle there's no gameplay evolution at all here. Infact its a backwards step if anything as in the old games you just hid behind a wall or barrel and did things at pace. They also gave you a decent radar to make up for the limited vision.

    Yeah they took out the radar, and gave you a Sonar a AP sensor and a Mic basically stuff you'd more than likely find in the 1960's and can use to great effect. Plus the Camoflague gave you more sense of stealth if you don't like how the Stealth system worked by going into the menu etc you'll love the Stealth Camo in MGS4.

    This bit cracks me up.

    And why are people so impressed by the camera? Wow it finally does a moving camera s'not like Dreamcast, Xbox and Gamecube games have all been doing this for years.

    Uh PS2 games have a moving camera also it's just the Metal Gear Series didn't. -_-
    (hence rant involving Dreamcast, Xbox and Gamecube irrelevant GC had MGS1 Twin Snakes with no moving camera, and Xbox had MGS2 Substance with no moving camera it was a game thing not a console thing)

    Oh and to answer you're question it's because....

    in the original MG3 get spotted by a guard who you couldn't see because the camera always pointed north

    Maybe that's why people are impressed wih the new Camera perhaps, i mean... you said it yourself right there.

    How on earth can you complain about the camera in the game then flame the game for improving the camera that you originally complained about.

    So bored today have enough time so i thought i'd give it a go. :)
    Edited by 1 at 26/10/06 @ 11:18
  • HIGHVOLTAGE #62 5 years ago

    Ha Ok will keep the essay to a minimum. Maybe I er went a little overboard with S&M pleasures and such like. Thank you to the people have made very intelligent responses.
    What I (meant) to get at with MG3:S is its all a bit late in the day for me, and adds to my feeling of been ripped off. I just tend to notice that most PS2 games that have high quality textures and a lot of detail going on has a STATIC CAMERA with limited movement and that inhibits the gameplay-examples Onimusha series, Devil May Cry Series, Ico (yes played it, sorry didn't like that much), God of War and the Metal Gears. Games like Grand Theft with low quality textures have 360 degree moving camera though-so it strikes me PS2 has some problems there. The worst thing is its limited the other systems too cause most games are ported from PS2-hence why GC and X-box versions weren't better.

    On a gameplay level too many games just recycled old ideas. Please tell me we wont have to put up with this on PS3 puuurr-lease. Make some games I haven't played before.

    I just wanna play a really good MG4 on PS3 dammit sort it out Mr Kojima.
  • Lex_Luthor #63 5 years ago

    "I just tend to notice that most PS2 games that have high quality textures and a lot of detail going on has a STATIC CAMERA with limited movement and that inhibits the gameplay"

    This doesn't just apply to PS2 though. Same with some of your other points in fact.
  • Hog-lumps #64 5 years ago

    Hmmm, I think the way the camera behaves is more of an issue of programming and not really the fault of the platform that the game is released on. So you should be blaming the programers for bad cameras - not the hardware manufactuers!

    Whilst I agree bad cameras are infuriating from a gameplay perspective, to single out the PS2 as the main culprit is silly. I'm certain that bothe the PS3, x360 and Wii will all have games with crap cameras........

    edit. but you are very right - MGS 3subsistence has been too long coming - the yanks had this ages ago godamit!!
    Edited by 1 at 26/10/06 @ 22:06
  • erp #65 5 years ago

    i've always really wanted to like the MGS games, but whenever i've tried to play them i've always been really frustrated by them.
    my problem has mainly been the claustraphobic camera angles ... so is subsistence's new camera system enough to satisfy me?
    i hope it is!
    Edited by 1 at 27/10/06 @ 13:55
  • HIGHVOLTAGE #66 5 years ago

    Honestly I'm not saying it to piss on other peoples parades. For whatever reason PS2 suffers from this phenomenon more than the other machines. I am inclined to blame the hardware-but you'd need another essay off me to say exactly why-so lets not.

    Hopefully come PS3 we'll leave these rubbish cameras once and for all. People who think I'm been unfair will get their PS2 games out and think ugh did I really used to play games that had such crappy cameras and it will all be a distant memory. And if we don't ....AARRARARARGHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!
  • TonyBlair #67 5 years ago

    I can't wait to eliminate snake tomorrow back to the shop he goes - one of the most piss poor games I have played DOGSHIT hides in grass too. 9/10 U talk outta ur ARSE!

    Start at the beginning shall we Hmmm a c-130 USAF over soviet airspace when the cold war is on FULL LANDING LIGHTS ON hardly stealth have you ever heard a c130 FINE A BULLSHIT START

    Then a HALO jump which is nothing of the sort a weighty chat with Major Tom ex SAS who is in charge of a US operation BOLLOCKS and two girls

    So we are grounded but snakes fall from grace means he has to get his Backpack
    Major Tom pipes "No trace of US operation must be found it would contravene international law" what about Snakes descent helmet with BIG LETTERS USAF that he chucked away like a burger carton MORE BOLLOCKS

    Find backpack then a mud scene with more aligators than the Miami suburbs all dozy as f**k SteveO would wet himself at this point THE DISC GOT PULLED

    Slaps in the online game - ok if your a like running round little maps with guards with turds in the pants and half baked aiming f**k it launches grenades in all directions suck on that snake wherever you are I get KICKED THANK F**K

    Bollocks game for BOLLOCKS GAMER