Metroid Prime 2: Echoes Review

By Kristan Reed Published 9 December, 2004

Every year an utterly essential game appears that no-one buys. Buck the trend.

Version tested: GameCube

Order yours now from Simply Games.

Shame on you for passing up on the opportunity to play one of the games of the year. In with a bullet at No.33 in the UK charts, gone the next week. When such anomalies occur you feel like packing it all in and strapping a megaphone on your face and annoying Christmas shoppers in a Scouse accent with talk of football and Jesus. Remember: don't be a sinner, be a winner! Buy this game and set yourself free.

Samus, or should we say shame us, for taking so long to review this game. There have been less concerted campaigns to free wrongly accused terrorists and less angry fathers denied access rights, but some things in life it would be irresponsible to rush. Metroid Prime 2: Echoes is one of those games that you couldn't hurry if you wanted to; you'd only come a cropper in the end. The whole game world is too intricately designed and elaborately constructed into a coherent environment that the only option available to you is to soak up everything you see, learn your way around, read everything, make endless mental notes about the areas inaccessible to you, and remove any expectations and bad habits you may have from the countless other games that make things easier, less frustrating but far less exciting and involving in the long run.

Buy. This. Game. Now.

'Metroid Prime 2: Echoes' Screenshot 1

If you've played any of the previous Metroid games then this will be old news. The chances are you'll have rushed out and bought Echoes already - probably on the strength of the fantastic GameCube predecessor, in which case you'll be as exasperated as we are that this has been trampled in the Christmas rush. Few games have warranted such evangelical praise yet fallen on so many deaf ears. The failure of Echoes to perform commercially will blacken the hearts of many gamers for years to come, and for good reason.

But in a way, its current failure isn't all that unexpected. Reducing Echoes to its basic form, it wouldn't be unreasonable to surmise from a quick glance that it's more of the same with multiplayer tacked onto it. Roughly the same visual sheen, identical controls, a similar array of power-ups and weapons, and the whole "scan everything" gameplay mechanic, enemies that respawn from previously cleared areas, hard as nails boss encounters. You know the drill. On a very superficial level it definitely is a case of more of the same, but the more time you spend with Echoes, glib statements such as these get under your skin. Retro Studios didn't need to reinvent the wheel, when that wheel is so unlike anyone else's in the first place. After playing literally dozens of formulaic first-person shooters over recent years, the craft and invention of Retro's worlds scream out at you.

But we're probably preaching to the choir here anyway. Metroid Prime 2 is probably best summed up as Heaven and Hell - in more ways than you'd imagine. Set on the planet Aether, a noble race of insectoid-like beings called the Luminoth have had their peaceful way of life torn asunder after a meteor falls from the sky and rips a dimensional rift, causing a dark version of their planet to exist in another dimension. A violent race of creatures known as the Ing spawn as a result - think of them as the 'dark side' of the Luminoth - and begin stealing the light energy as a part of trying to conquer the light version of Aether as well.

Sell your Grandmother!

'Metroid Prime 2: Echoes' Screenshot 2

This internal conflict would have probably reached its own bloody conclusion were it not for the fact that a Galactic Federation ship chased a Space Pirate vessel onto Aether, only to be wiped out themselves by the Ing hordes; which is the rather convoluted reason that Samus Aran ends up investigating their disappearance.

Exploring the wreckage, and encountering U-Mos, the Luminoth guardian of the one small part of Light Aether that has survived the onslaught. a sense of purpose emerges, but it does initially feel like more of the same. The first few hours do little to convince that much has really changed; it's all scan and plan, checking the map to make sure you've explored every door, wrestling power-ups off gigantic boss creatures while trying to get to grips with its doggedly unique control system and fighting enemies that respawn every bloomin' time you revisit a previously cleared section. It still rankles slightly that Retro has dispensed with the dual analogue stick industry standard approach of every other console FPS ever, forcing the player into slightly unwieldy processes such as having to hold the right shoulder button in order to free-look, yet making up for it with a flawless camera system and slick lock-on system that makes circle strafing an absolute breeze. It's not perfect, but then neither is the alternative. It's just one of many examples of Retro doing things very differently to practically everybody else, and something you'll probably end up admiring them for.

After a somewhat uninspiring beginning that has little of the dramatic tension that infused the early encounters of the last outing, you're left wondering whether Retro has simply churned out a quick and easy sequel. No-one would blame anyone for coming to such conclusions early on, but as soon as the game spins on its head and introduces you to Dark Aether you have to think about the game on a totally different level. It's basically twice the game because of it.

Rob banks!

'Metroid Prime 2: Echoes' Screenshot 3

As if Metroid Prime's open-ended level structure didn't cause enough chaos, with vast areas of the world available to traverse (and get hopelessly lost in), Echoes ups the ante even more by presenting the player with problems in Light Aether that can only be solved by activating portals and jumping into the dark side, meddling with objects in that dimension, hopping back and forth and generally feeling your way through two sides of the same coin. It's possibly one of the most mind-frying gaming experiences we've ever come across - but also one of the most satisfyingly challenging of all time as a consequence.

Unlike the procession of hold-you-by-the-hand shooters out there, Echoes' approach, as with MP, is quite the reverse. Often you have little direction on what to do or where to go. It's simply left up to you to explore what's available to you, figuring things out largely on your own (with only the occasional hint dropped if the game thinks you're taking a long time over getting somewhere). In a very real sense, this is both the triumph of Echoes and probably the most daunting facet of its structure. There's something incredibly involving about chipping your way through the game, scanning everything, reading the dozens of logs left by downed Luminoth warriors, as well as finding out the inside story on every plant species and enemy you encounter. Some might find the whole 'gotta catch 'em all' scanning element a bit tedious, and initially it is, but as the story begins to envelope you, and the recognition factor starts to seep in through repeat visits, the desire to progress gets ever stronger.

Echoes is unique in being one of those game where using a guide will probably make the whole experience more enjoyable. There are simply too many occasions where messing up or - at best - wasting time will chip away at your resolve. The somewhat unhelpful save mechanic (which involves having to find a save point, rather than giving you the ability to save when you like, or checkpointing progress) can get you into all sorts of headaches. Stumble into a room full of tough enemies ill-equipped is a recipe for disaster, especially when it's been ages since you last saved. Joypads have been hurled in utter fury on numerous occasions as a result of this, and in this day and age there's really no need to enforce such tough, old school approaches onto gamers - especially in a game as demanding as this.

Buy a GameCube!

'Metroid Prime 2: Echoes' Screenshot 4

The chances are getting stuck or lost will prove even more frustrating, with enemies doggedly respawning out of rooms that you've revisited maybe a dozen times already. We realise part of the game's appeal is constructing a coherent world that all stitches together, and that they'd appear very empty if you only ever killed each room's enemies once. But at the same time, forcing you to waste ammo and health (not to mention time) on battles you've fought many times over isn't a great deal of fun. This is why this writer would actually recommend playing the game with a guide - it doesn't lessen the surprise, and prevents the omnipresent possibility of going dramatically off course. Not only that, Echoes hides energy and ammo upgrades so cunningly sometimes that you're going to need all the help you can get - especially in the numerous boss encounters; some of which held us up for literally hours at a time. One in particular midway through the game requires the equivalent of five defeats in various forms before it finally croaks, and under these circumstances you'll realise why certain people always bang on about other games being 'easy'. Next to Echoes they almost certainly are.

But what Echoes does better than possibly any game on this nature is constantly providing something new to experience, either in the form of new abilities, weapons, environments, creatures, or even the almost overwhelming procession of evil bosses. There's never a stage in Echoes where you feel you've seen all it has to offer, and if anything there's too much. If anything the game's too long and most of its audience won't have the time to see all that it has to offer, but the rewards are there for those that choose to indulge themselves.

To begin with the Samus finds herself quickly stripped of anything useful, only getting back the Morph ball from an early boss encounter to add to her entirely rubbish pop gun. Slowly but surely new abilities rack up. Power, Dark and Light Beams make killing the regular drones less painful (as well as making it possible to open doors), while Missiles in their regular, Super and Seeker form do much the same, albeit in a more concentrated form. Other abilities, meanwhile, are more useful in accessing hard to reach places, with the returning Bomb, Boost and Spider helping you charge the Morph ball into places otherwise out of range (as well as doubling up in some cases as an attack device), while the likes of the Space Jump boots, Grapple Beam and Gravity Boost all return to make it easier for Samus to negotiate the landscape, and the somewhat spectacular Screw Attack not only allows her to perform huge horizontal and somersaulting wall jumps, but mash up the enemy as well. And as if that wasn't bewildering enough, the new Dark and Echo visors allow Samus' enhanced senses to visualise inter-dimensional objects and sound waves. The sheer level of imagination that has gone into Echoes is mind boggling, while keeping faith with everything that made the previous games in the series so well admired.

Do not under any circumstances fail to play this game

'Metroid Prime 2: Echoes' Screenshot 5

But not only do the new abilities add a much needed sense of novelty to the proceedings, they often change the way you approach the numerous puzzles. The game won't hold your hand for you. It's very much a process of elimination, although always logical and never as obscure as you might initially think. Echoes' biggest problem is that so few games actually require you to think anymore. As a largely non-thinking gamer ingrained with so many lazy habits over the past five or so years, being forced to actually not only figure things out, but explore, retain key information and be bloody good at defeating rock hard bosses makes Echoes one of the true gamers' games to have emerged in the past couple of years - probably the first since the original Metroid Prime to be fair. When they say they don't make 'em like they used to, point them in the direction of Echoes, and realise that they do; they're just not in the Top 10 for some staggeringly irritating reason.

But we're not done yet. Unlike last time out, there's multiplayer to consider, although only split-screen for up to four players, only with half a dozen maps and only two modes. It is, to be blunt, and bit tacked on for sake of it, and not really conducive to more than a cursory glance. With a small number of players to accommodate, and controls that aren't suited to multi-level combat the levels are largely flat symmetrical affairs that make it easy to track down opponents - made even easier by the presence of radar. To be brutal, the single-player mechanics were never meant to be translated into multiplayer, so the ability to turn into a Morph ball and run away makes encounters slightly irritating, while the ability to lock onto opponents and pound them with too-powerful weapons makes a fair fight a distant prospect.

Add to those daft power-ups like Invincibility, or the Super Missile or Heavy Damage, Unlimited Ammo and it's one of those games you quickly tire of. Combat is reduced to circle strafe fests, or a ball chasing farce, and that's before you've even delved into the utterly pointless Bounty mode, which adds coin collections into the mix, yet descends into a last kill wins farce, whereby someone who has dominated the entire match can lose if he or she should happen to be killed just before the time limit expires, allowing the victor to scoop up all their hard won winnings. Arse. It's also slightly disappointing to see that all the hard won weapons from the single-player are available from the off, lessening the surprise of discovering them in the first place. Our advice is if you want to get the most out of single-player, lay off multiplayer until you're all done.

Buyitbuyitbuyit

And with that, the verdict. Don't let the muted disappointment of the multiplayer discolour what is among the best single-player experiences we've ever experienced. Certainly up there with literally anything else, including Half-Life 2, San Andreas, and as far as enjoyment, intrigue, reward and challenge, far surpasses the likes of Halo 2 and Killzone, and shows up the competition in more ways than we could care to mention. It'll last you ages, it'll test you to the limit and at times make you furious with your own lack of skills and the game's lack of forgiveness. But when what you're fighting for is possibly the complete sci-fi adventure you won't mind, even when it means fighting the same boss 20 times over two hours. It's the kind of game you have absolutely no qualms being obsessed by. It's the game that compulsive disorder was designed for.

Order yours now from Simply Games.

9 / 10

Read the Eurogamer.net scoring policy
Picture of Kristan.

About Kristan Reed

Kristan is a former editor of Eurogamer, dad, Stone Roses bore and Norwich City supporter who sometimes mutters optimistically about Team Silent getting back together.

Read more articles from Kristan by visiting the Kristan Reed archive page.

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Comments (112) Latest comment 6 years ago

Comments threads automatically close after 30 days, but please feel free to continue chatting on the forum!

  • templar-wizard #1 7 years ago

    you didnt give it ten, prepare for the fanboi assualt!

  • Nemesis #2 7 years ago

    Remember: don't be a sinner, be a winner!

    The most annoying bloke on Oxford Street. EVA.

    Anyhoo, nice to see the Echo review.....we can have some peace in the forums again.

    /pats tards

    You can all go back in your boxes now.

  • Hicksy #3 7 years ago

    2hrs on one boss? O_o

    /goes back to try to get into first one again before purchase

  • Eighthours #4 7 years ago

    And, in other breaking EG news, JFK has just been assassinated.....

    Nah, the review was well worth the wait! I thoroughly agree with virtually all of it.

  • krudster #5 7 years ago

    2hrs on one boss....I never said I was *good* at games, I'm just incredibly persistent.

  • keenest #6 7 years ago

    Once again this game just sounds like hard work to me. I must be one of those lazy gamers the reviewer refers to.

  • krudster #7 7 years ago

    It is VERY hard work, but it's just so full of rewards you turn around and go "oh alright then, but only because it's you". Or something.

  • Lutz #8 7 years ago

    *ahem*

    Better than Halo?

    /legs it fookin' fast

  • Nemesis #9 7 years ago

    I'm getting this for Xmas, and it can't come along soon enough.

    Come on you lot. /nudge

  • AnotherMartin #10 7 years ago

    Great game, like the man says 'go buy it now!'

    60Hz mode = No !?!?

    Nintendo won't be pleased with that! ;-)

    And widescreen = Yes !?!

    Great review though, totaly agree.

  • mcmonkeyplc #11 7 years ago

    Oi play halo 2 on legendary before you call this more rewarding.


    Maybe I should play this too.

    Dont have a gamecube though, maybe you could give me one :p

    MCM

  • binky #12 7 years ago

    To begin with the Samus finds herself quickly stripped

    *PPPHHWWOOOAAARRRR*

  • GingerMagician #13 7 years ago

    Haven't even got past the first paragraph yet, but had to comment on "don't be a sinner, be a winner" - ROFLMAO!!! That guy makes Oxford Circus almost bearable!

    Top, top stuff Kristan - nearly had me spraying Diet Coke all over the monitor.

    Almost worth waiting two weeks for . . . . almost . . . . ; )

  • krudster #14 7 years ago

    I'm not so sure it's a good idea to play MP and MP2 back to back - it's too intense, too mind boggling a prospect. I've had 18 months off, and cast off my reservations over the first one. I knew what to expect this time and it helped me enjoy it more. Maybe leave it a few months.

  • Singularity #15 7 years ago

    It's soooo good, I think I may marry it.

    That's allowed, right?

    Great review, kruds. (: ))

  • krudster #16 7 years ago

    Well, given that I didn't enjoy the first one all that much, I could hardly be accused of lacking objectivity. I do happen to think the whole experience is vastly more coherant and enjoyable than Halo, which is obviously just my opinion. That's not to say I didn't enjoy Halo 1 or 2. I appear to be the only member of EG that stands up for Halo at all - the others really can't be bothered with it.

    However, Halo's combat is probably better, but in truth it's a straight up FPS. MP and MP2 aren't really even in the same genre, apart from having a Sci-fi theme and first person shooting - that's about where the similarities end. Trying to compare the two is somewhat futile, but on the whole I have to say I got far more out of MP2 than either Halo 1 or 2 - purely in terms of single player, you understand.

  • Nebularhaze #17 7 years ago

    This game is amazing, even more than the first one if that is possible. I personaly think that i have never played a game as good as Metroid Prime(any of the 2) in my more than 10 years of gaming. A must for all gamers.

    It does have 60hz, at least in Spain the game come only in 60hz with no options for 50hz

  • Shivoa #18 7 years ago

    So with the complete failure to sell what are the chances of a cheap deal in the Jan sales?

  • krudster #19 7 years ago

    It'll be discounted, mark my words - maybe will be *before* Xmas, so watch the sales.

  • krudster #20 7 years ago

    I did enjoy the first one, but was put off by the backtracking game mechanics - this time I knew what to expect and kind of "got over" that and really tackled it properly.

  • p3rks #21 7 years ago

    I didn't get on with the first one, but on the basis of that review, and the (almost) universal love this seems to be getting, i'm going to take a cube home and try it out.

    add 1 to the (probably) converted list.

  • GingerMagician #22 7 years ago

    Great review Kristan. I am truly loving this game at the moment - about halfway through (I think) and I can hardly put it down.

    Same for me with the Halo comparison. Though the combat is way better in Halo/Halo 2, everything else about this and the first Metroid Prime makes it superior in my view.

    The most immersive gaming experience I've had since, well, the first one actually.

  • #23 7 years ago

    Better than the first one! woh.

  • malloc #24 7 years ago

    It's only 60Hz in the UK too, think the page is wrong on this one.

    Nice review, and probably was worth the wait. It's a toughie, and I must admit that I prefer the story to the first one. Although did anyone notice that when Samus is attacked and loses all her abilities, she escapes from the attack using here Grapple Beam, which you don't have. Tis a great game, and in fairness to the mp mode, Retro did atleast listen to the fans and put it in. I voted for mp, and maybe I wouldn't have if I could go back.

    The light and dark probably isn't really on a par with the LttP light and dark, but it's still good. For me so far, it is better than the first one, and the light and dark really does add an extra dimension (pun unintentional).

  • Natius #25 7 years ago

    At last the Echoes review!
    Came here every day for the last 2 weeks, and every day I left disappointed...until 10 minutes ago that is:)

    I wasnt so keen on this review for the validation that the game is good...we all knew that would be the case...I wanted to be made excited all over again. Must say the EG reviewers are incredibly successful in achieving this.

    Somebody called the review fanatical, subjective and over forgiving of its flaws. Well if you read a lot of EG reviews its quite clear that they are very objective. Moreso than most online review sites. The mere fact that this review came across as fanatical should be an indication in itself that Echoes is infact, BRILLIANT:)

    Excellent review Kristan!

  • Pinchy #26 7 years ago

    Very good review, MP2 is the kind of game i grew up playing, sadly it doesn't seem to be the kind of game that many people want to play any more. ah well, enjoy it while they still make em like this.

  • #27 7 years ago

    You were just born, Pinchy? Grow up fast, don't they?

  • Blerk #28 7 years ago

    I still haven't found my copy. It's in the house somewhere, but she's hidden it good and proper. She usually hides prezzies under the bed, but all I found this time was fluff.

  • Pinchy #29 7 years ago

    yup, i can safely say metroid prime turned me into a man.... or in another way, into a woman in a suit, but enough about that.

    i've said too much.

  • onyxbox #30 7 years ago

    Kruds: That review was SPOT ON !

    I've been juggling Halo 2 and this since it came out and I was eager to hear your opinion.

    Thanks again.

  • steven #31 7 years ago

    Yep Metroid Prime 2 is fantastic! I am currently getting the 'Sky Temple keys'.

  • mash the x button #32 7 years ago

    Buyitbuyitbuyit

    But I don't own a gamecube...

  • MBar #33 7 years ago

    Retro Studios didn't need to reinvent the wheel, when that wheel is so unlike anyone else's in the first place.

    f'ing great comment. really makes you think ...

    i would just like to apologise for not having bought this as yet. i have been too busy.

    ....cough, cough... with halo 2 online ... cough, cough...

    but it is now on the christmas list! roll on 25th december! the first one was great, so i'm rather looking forward to this.

  • krudster #34 7 years ago

    I know what you're trying to say about that Broken Sword review - its sentiments were sound, but the game itself was hopelessly short of being a nine. This is a nine all day long, and anything less is woefully wide of the mark.

    Its problems could have easily have been solved:
    *Put a better save mechanic in.
    *Signpost the game better (or at least give players the option of being told where they should be heading next)
    *Only respawn enemies once something has been solved - respawning them every time you re-enter a room makes often essential exploration much more of a risk - Retro needs to understand that it should be *encouraging* exploration, not beating players over the head for trying.

    Still, like I said, the rewards are massive, and if you've grown up with games this is the sort of medicine we all used to have to take.

  • The-Bodybuilder #35 7 years ago

    I think its a bit unfair to compare this to H2.

    H2 focuses on combat and commbat ONLY. it doesn't try to do multiple things at the same time, it only tries to focus on action.

    Whereas MP2 is essentially an adventure game. It obviously does many things at once.

    H2 is better than MP2 is the action, without a doubt.
    MP2 is obviously better than H2 in everything else (other than multiplayer), simply because H2 didn't try to do anything else.

    If you like adventure games, then you will definately prefer MP2.

    Me, I like my action games. Thierfore I like H2 MUCH MUCH MORE than MP2.

    The last action/adventure game I played was ninja gaiden, which I love to death.

    I really wanted to like MP (haven't played MP2), but I just couldn't.

    I would also like to say that I blame EG for MP2s rubbish sales.

    Hundreds of consumers out thier were waiting for the this review, but when you guys didn't review it early, most of them jumped to the conclusion that the game was shite.

    To summarize it, IT'S ALL YOUR FAULT.

  • IronGiant #36 7 years ago

    "Yep Metroid Prime 2 is fantastic! I am currently getting the 'Sky Temple keys"

    Why? you have preaching to be done.. why should you waste time on the selfish pursuit of pleasure?

  • MBar #37 7 years ago

    But I don't own a gamecube...

    spot who didn't read the whole review. two headers up :

    Buy a GameCube!
    Edited by 1 at 09/12/04 @ 14:58

  • mortykun #38 7 years ago

    Well I loved the first one. Acutally the game only takes 7 hours to complete with 100% items and scans once you've done it twice before :).

    As for echo's I am fighting some swimming boss thing at the moment that turns into a flying thing afterwards. Then I died because I kept trying to use my multi missile lock-on to nail it's wings Realised way to late that normal missiles work too... :p ... will kick its butt tonight though.

  • steven #39 7 years ago

    "Why? you have preaching to be done.. why should you waste time on the selfish pursuit of pleasure? "

    There is a time for everything IronGiant

    BTW nice review Krudstser was expecting an 8 since you didn't seem to flip over the original and this is more of the same.
    Edited by 1 at 09/12/04 @ 15:05

  • Pinchy #40 7 years ago

    there is already a video online of someone finishing it in about 3 hours. insane. i have no idea how they do it.

  • SteveB #41 7 years ago

    Frustrating save system. Rock hard bosses. No thanks. I’m too old to put up with this type of crappy game design anymore. I almost had a seizure beating the final boss in Metroid Prime.

  • krudster #42 7 years ago

    "perhaps the easier games are having a detrimental effect on my gaming"
    Definitely. Games are *way way* too easy these days, and although in certain scenarios this isn't a bad thing, there's little sense of satisfaction in being able to rip through everything you play. This is the most satisfying game I've played all year, without doubt.

  • malloc #43 7 years ago

    >Why? you have preaching to be done.. why should you waste time on the selfish pursuit of pleasure?

    For goodness sake you idiot, leave it to that thread please.

  • malloc #44 7 years ago

    Kristan, was there anything you didn't like about the game? Why it didn't get a 10 for instance. You scored it fairly, possibly slightly generous, but there have been a few criticisms of the game, such as a dull dark world, screw attack coming too late on, too similar to first one, poor mp etc. Can't say I really agree with them, but any thoughts?

    For myself I did occasionally get a tad infuriated at getting lost, especially with the maps being so big, and as you pointed out the odd save station being a bit out of the way.

  • effinjamie #45 7 years ago

    Wanted to Love the first Metroid but HATED the control system,, which totally spoiled the game for me.
    If the option to play the game using a standard FPS style control has been left out, I will definateley be giving this a miss!

  • Dizzy #46 7 years ago

    >Definitely. Games are *way way* too easy these days, and although in certain scenarios this isn't a bad thing, there's little sense of satisfaction in being able to rip through everything you play

    Try Ninja Gaiden then....

  • Thamuhacha #47 7 years ago

    >"Remember: don't be a sinner, be a winner!"

    It's fun working out who people work for based upon what they hear at the tube station.

  • krudster #48 7 years ago

    It's true the screw attack does come too late on for some; personally I always admired how they keep giving you rewards. No other game springs to mind that does this to this extent.

    I personally liked all the environments - all very different, all very stylish. I didn't like multiplayer, but that's well documented in the review.

    The game is very similar to the first one initially, but I think it has a far superior storyline, loved the whole light/dark approach. My other criticisms are all listed in the review or this thread. It's not perfect, but I've yet to find a game that is.

  • Pac #49 7 years ago

    Games are *way way* too easy these days

    I agree with these sentiments entirely. There is little satisfaction in easy gaming victories. I usually have a hard time completing games because I have no free time, not because I find sections too difficult. Although one or two missions in GTA:SA have left me reaching for the swear box.

  • Cyhwuhx #50 7 years ago

    .::: Hey Kristan, you do know U-Mos is the sole Luminoth to guard the Great Temple and isn't actually, well, a meteorite? ;)

    Prime is still the better more rounded of the two, or should I say 'traditional', but Echoes certainly walks it's own path while sticking to the regular Metroid-stuff.

    The most annoying thing is that people simply don't want to learn to control the game. People with the mindset like effinjamie for instance. Relearning controls isn't exactly a sin...

    I'm surprised the review didn't contain the words 'spider' and 'guardian' though. ;)

  • Natius #51 7 years ago

    Wonder what global sales were like? Expecting not so good either.

    On the one hand I cant be too bothered that it didnt sell...this will always be the type of game the masses ignore, instead going for something akin to the top 20 Pop charts...you know blond, sexy, fashionable but oh so lacking in real style!
    But on the other hand it makes me paranoid that Retro, being an American company and obviously one of the best at the mo, would be snapped up by Microsoft, where their exposure might be so much bigger.

  • lemonfist #52 7 years ago

    I really want to buy this, but I haven't completed the first one yet. And I feel I have to.

    I'm stuck at some boss made of stone, and I can't motivate myself to turn on the cube again and try my best to beat him. It was sort of the same with Ninja Gaiden where I got smacked repeatedly by a horde of zombies.

    So I'm a wimp. And it's true that games are too easy these days. That's the reason I'm a wimp. For every EA product I've played, my skillz have decreased slightly and I think my brain may also have shrunk a tiny bit.

  • Pac #53 7 years ago

    If you are having problems with Ninja Gaiden lemonfist just try backtracking and killing loads of respawning bats. Money in the bank to buy magic, extra lives etc.

    Great game - I wish they would do a sequel

  • Galvanizer #54 7 years ago

    A truely EXCELLENT game.

  • absolutezero #55 7 years ago

    I nearly broke my pad when fighting the Spider Guardian, really I heard it creaking and everything. Same thing when fighting the boss of Torvus Bog, you know the one. Jesus that was some slog.

    The lack of interest in MP2 has made even more cynical about the entire industry, if thats even possible. You'll get people saying that its all Nintendo's fault for not advertising correctly but to me advertising has never been a factor, its all about if the game is good or not. Seeing as GoldenEye is quite far up the charts theres something seriously wrong at the moment. I think ill stick around to point and laugh at whatever gets to the top of the charts next.

    Great review though, basically puts over exactly the joy I experienced when playing through the game.

  • phAge #56 7 years ago

    You know - one of these days I might very well GO and buy a Gamecube - and I'm holding YOU responsible!

    /points finger, Uncle Sam-style

  • Natius #57 7 years ago

    "Retro being snapped up by Microsoft? You realise they are a wholly owned subsidiary of Nintendo right? They aren't for sale you know. "

    No actually I didnt know that, but thank you so much Dreamcatcher for giving me the best news I've heard in ages:)
    *phew*

  • onyxbox #58 7 years ago

    there's little sense of satisfaction in being able to rip through everything you play

    I agree. That's the most disappointing thing about games these days.

    I was shaking my head when I realised I was taking the piss out of Halo 2's 'Normal' difficulty (I realize ‘Heroic’ is much better). I was thinking 'They've dumbed this down' and there was no sense of achievement after each level. I think a single chapter of Ninja Gaiden and about 15% of MP2 equates to the entire Halo 2 campaign… the gaming majority are after a different fix to us I think. They just want to be entertained for a short while, like a film and then move on.

    Talking of Ninja Gaiden… but does any one else think Metroid Prime 2 feels like Ninja Gaiden in some weird way ?

    (I'm not going to try and explain it, but it does for me).

  • Pac #59 7 years ago

    Some of the best games available are on the GameCube but with only a 16% share of the global hardware market it is hard to see how they can carry on releasing games of such high quality and make a profit. I rarely seem to play mine these days as there is such a long gap between decent releases.

  • toy_brain #60 7 years ago

    I finished this game just last night - I didnt think it was that hard. A number of the bosses are very 'you-have-to-do-exactly-*this*' which might take one or two goes to figure out, and the first underwater boss took about 5 goes, but its never unforgivingly hard.

    Bloody good game though.

  • #61 7 years ago

    "insane. i have no idea how they do it."

    but.. but.. didn't watch the vid?!

  • mattigan #62 7 years ago

    For all you people moaning about enemies respawning, here is a little snippet learned from the first game that still applies in Echoes:

    90% of the time, the doors are only locked for the first enemy encounter in any given room, after that, when enemies respawn you can usually just leg it to your exit of choice and carry on to your ultimate destination. I must have killed about a 1000 of those little burrowing bugs in MP1 before realising you can just walk past them if you like!!

    BTW. . MP2, Don't bother getting it for Christmas. . . . GET IT NOW!!! it's the cats nadgers!!!

  • Pinchy #63 7 years ago

    nah, havent finished the game yet. i'll watch it though, you just see if i don't.

  • MBar #64 7 years ago

    Some of the best games available are on the GameCube but with only a 16% share of the global hardware market it is hard to see how they can carry on releasing games of such high quality and make a profit.

    easy answer : 16% of a hell of a lot of money is still a lot of money.

    i thank-you.

  • speedjack #65 7 years ago

    Got it, and its superb.

    Better than MP (IMHO).
    Edited by 1 at 09/12/04 @ 16:05

  • absolutezero #66 7 years ago

    >>I rarely seem to play mine these days as there is such a long gap between decent releases.

    Have you ever thought of importing? My Cube is the console I play most, having just got Naruto 3, Viewtiful Joe 2, Tales of Symphonia and then theres Resident Evil 4 in January, now I don't know how long it takes for you to finish with games but thats going to keep me busy for some amount of time.

  • Abscido #67 7 years ago

    Great review Kristan.

    Could be game of the year.

    Please, everyone, buy it.

  • gizmo #68 7 years ago

    The future of Nintendo is clear. Software and handheld hardware only. Except FFS don't build another DS - I've only got two hands. And don't port Super Mario Sunshite either.

  • Nebularhaze #69 7 years ago

    I'm stuck at some boss made of stone, and I can't motivate myself to turn on the cube again and try my best to beat him. It was sort of the same with Ninja Gaiden where I got smacked repeatedly by a horde of zombies.
    -Lemonfist-

    Get your act together and finished it!!!! your missing SO much.....so many good stuff......if you think that boss is hard wait to you fight the final one...pure joy

  • Artemus #70 7 years ago

    Great review and good point about the guide. I have found myself several times wondering where to go. I've had a vague idea but the reassurance of a guide saved me any unnecessary back tracking. I think the hints were a little too far in-between. Apart from that the only thing that bothers me is the ammo system. 75% I using the power beam, although since upgrading its become less of a problem. Still it can go a bit too quick especially with the annihilator.

    Few games reward such perseverance though. As soon as I got the screw attack I was just mucking around with my new found power. On to the last 7 keys now...

  • speedjack #71 7 years ago

    Lemon fist - here a sneaky tip.

    If I rember right that boss transformed into a ball and squashed you ?

    All you need to do is wedge yourself into the corner of the room (yes I know its circular) but there are some girders there that if you wedge youself against them and keep shooting the ball can't get in far enough to splat you.

    (Hope that makes sense ?!)

  • onyxbox #72 7 years ago

    its not really a much more complex design than any other first person shooter where they might give you a sniper rifle just before you are supposed to use it... except that you wont have to fight for it with a big boss and feel good for finishing the boss...

    So are you saying that solving puzzles and defeating extremely difficult boss challenges to earn weapons / power ups is just as rewarding as being given it (without having to earn it) before any bit that requires it… hmm… I dunno’.., sounds like ‘Generation Give Me’ to me… or should that be ‘Generation EA’.

  • Pac #73 7 years ago

    16% of a hell of a lot of money is still a lot of money

    Yes but as Gizmo points out they would make a hell of a lot more money making games for the 68% of the installed base that has a PS2.

  • Pac #74 7 years ago

    Zelda and Metroid both share the back and forth rubbish that killed them for me

    I would rather spend time exploring and re-exploring an absorbing gaming environment such as that found in Zelda than a hundred quick thrill non-Nintendo designed game worlds.

    But hey, thats only my opinion - right?

  • Shinji #75 7 years ago

    Yes but as Gizmo points out they would make a hell of a lot more money making games for the 68% of the installed base that has a PS2.

    Unlikely. Nintendo makes a profit on hardware as well as on software. On PS2, they'd have no hardware profit, and would have to pay Sony $7 for every game they sold, so their margins would be far worse.

    Nintendo makes more profit than any other company in the games industry. Worth bearing in mind.

  • mash the x button #76 7 years ago

    "But I don't own a gamecube...

    spot who didn't read the whole review. two headers up :

    Buy a GameCube!"

    I did see that bit. When are you going to get a free gamecube with your cornflakes is what I want to know....

  • SteveyWevey #77 7 years ago

    Ceatlan:

    Yes it has all these things...

    But not like that (at least judging from MP1)

    1. The backtracking is persistant but not all pervasive - when you get the ability to open up a new area you may have to spend ten minutes getting there - but then it's three or four times that long exploring the new area before you turn around again - there's no "pulling switch causes door to arbritarily appear on other side of world" type annoyance. Just gradual, slightly aimless, exploration

    2. It has respawning enemies - but not a constant flow of them. Once you've cleared a room it stays cleared until you leave and come back in - and all the puzzles are contained within one room which cuts down heaviliy on the annoyance factor.

    3. Bosses - they are TOUGH, but as someone else observed it's more a figuring out what to do tough than a rock-hard hand-eye co-ordination trauma (trust me I'm dyspraxic).

    Honestly, I'm a pretty rubbish gamer with little tolerance for frustation, poor reflexes and a preference for games where it's clear what you should do next- and I still find MP1 the best game I have ever played on any platform. It just oozes goodness.

    Buy it, love it, then buy this (I will just as soon as I've got 30 quid).

    BTW - am I to understand that the hints (those question marks that popped up on your map in MP1 telling you what general area you should be heading for) are AWOL in MP2? If so then it's definitely faq time.

  • Pac #78 7 years ago

    Nintendo makes more profit than any other company in the games industry

    But do you not think there will come a time when it will not be commercially viable to develop for a platform that is so under-subscribed?

    I would hate to see Nintendo fail completely but Sega had a lot of fans before it managed to go arse up.

    At least it would mean one less box under the TV

  • Pinchy #79 7 years ago

    stevie, the hints are still there if you want to use them.
    i felt like luke 'using the force' when i switched them off.
    and jar jar binks when i switched them back on.

  • AnotherMartin #80 7 years ago

    BTW - am I to understand that the hints (those question marks that popped up on your map in MP1 telling you what general area you should be heading for) are AWOL in MP2? If so then it's definitely faq time.

    They're still there.

  • Killerbee #81 7 years ago

    Spot on review Kristan and I'd definitely add my voice to the calls for more people to get out and buy it.

    Personally I've not tried the multi-player yet, but just from reading the instruction manual it looked a bit underwhelming.

    The single player is excellent though - every bit as good as the first game, but with the extra twist of the light and dark worlds. It really is probably the best game I've played all year and it's an absolute travesty that not more people have bought it.

  • Aga #82 7 years ago

    But if you didnt like Metroid Prime, will you like this one?

  • El_MUERkO #83 7 years ago

    With a review like that how could I not?

    For the same reason lots other people couldnt... I dont own a GC.

    But wait!!!

    Whats this!?!

    Thanks to a Tesco fuckup I soon will.

    Then Ikargu, Mario Kart, Pikmen, Super Monkey Ball and Metroid will be picked up :)

    To be honest if it wasnt for Tesco I probably would never have got a GC and the only people to blame for that are Nintendo.

    Eurogamer shouldnt be saying "Shame on us" they should be saying "Shame on Nintendo for doing everything wrong in the European Market"

  • steven #84 7 years ago

    "But if you didnt like Metroid Prime, will you like this one? "

    I doubt you will having played both. But then what exactly did you NOT like about Metroid Prime?

  • Lothar Hex #85 7 years ago

    Would you say if I didn't like Mp1 (I got sick of backtracking after 70% and never went back) I may find more enjoyment, or less in this?

    And Samus must be the clumsiest Bounty Hunter ever to keep losing her stuff. Or her suits extremely fragile

    Samus: *sneeze*
    *Armour clatters to ground*
    Samus: Ah BOLLOCKS. Not again!
    Edited by 1 at 09/12/04 @ 18:34

  • SteveyWevey #86 7 years ago

    "Jar Jar"

    Ouch.

    You're right, most of the time they're gut gutwrenchingly obvious.

    But occassionally they're downright invaluable. MP1 was best the second time through when I kind of remembered where I should be. But also, in hindsight, not TOO tough - bastard final boss aside.

  • urban #87 7 years ago

    buy a gamecube lol....um no.

  • Trowel #88 7 years ago

    Thanks to a Tesco fuckup I soon will.

    Heh, saw that on Money Saving Expert (officially the Most Useful Website in the World - in my house anyway), GameCubes for £35 each I believe? (too late now of course, so don't go redirecting those browsers just yet) Wish I'd heard earlier then I could have owned eBay...

    Mind you, latest tip is Colin McRae 3 on XBox for £1.99 - tidy! I'll just wait for the 50p Paper Mario thread to appear, though if sale carry on like this it won't be too long...

  • Nikanoru #89 7 years ago

    OH NOES NITNEDO SHOUD LEANR HOW TO MAKE GAMES NOT THIS CRAPPY GAME

    BAKCTRACKING!!! I GOT SIKC OF IT!!1 196% BACKTRACKINK

    CRAPPY CRAPPY CONTROLS I WANT DUAL....ANA....LOLOG .....STRAFIN COTROLS

    ITS TOO HARD I WANT SAVE ANYWHERE WITH MY FINGARS ON TEH LOAD&SAVE KEYS, NOT THIS CRAPY GAME WITH SAVPOINTS

    IT ES TOO HARD


    ROGUE AGENT FOREVAR1111 HALO2 OMG

  • Lothar Hex #90 7 years ago

    I like the fact you try to be ironic but end up looking daft.

  • Scimarad #91 7 years ago

    "But then what exactly did you NOT like about Metroid Prime? "

    I did like the game, just not the bloody controls...

  • krudster #92 7 years ago

    If I didn't make it crystal clear in the review or these comments, those comments are intended as a *single player* comparison.

    As far as being impartial - give me a break, we're writing opinions here, we're not trying to be the BBC.

  • SteveyWevey #93 7 years ago

    Programmer:

    Without meaning to be offensive you're talking balls.

    The vast majority of players still aren't interested in online multiplayer. I'm not. I want an engaging story, a sense of progression and a world to explore - not a little imaginary maze to run around pointing a little imaginary gun at some geek I've never met.

    Online gaming, as it stands, strips out what I really love about gaming - exploring a work of art. Maybe the next generation of MMOGs will be able to offer the narrative that I look for. H2 defmatch can't. MP1 can.

    Edited by 1 at 09/12/04 @ 20:29

  • Nebularhaze #94 7 years ago

    Who cares about Metroid mutiplayer anyways!!?!?!??!

    People buy the game for the single-player experience. The mutiplayer in Metroid is just an extra, not something to judge the game by.

  • Nikanoru #95 7 years ago

    I like the fact you try to be ironic but end up looking daft.

    Oh, you misunderstand, I was trying to sound daft. :D

  • Nikanoru #96 7 years ago

    I don't feel any real need to play Metroid Prime again, and despite the reviewer's somewhat unsubstantiated statements that it's not just the same game again, Echoes doesn't really sound all that different. And if I want Dark/Light worlds I'll play a Link to the Past.

    That's a bit of a nonsense statement. If I want a shooting gallery, I won't play Halo 2, I'll go play Duck Hunt.

    No, it's not the same game. You've got boss fights where you don't fire a shot. The fact that not all your beam weapons have infinite ammo makes a whole lot of a difference. And to feel in how far the dark world is something new, you'll have to play it. For example, there's a whole lot more to light chrystals than you think.

    Secondly, there is no such thing as a GOOD game that needs to be played with a walkthrough. Having a freeform approach (c.f. Morrowind/Rome) is a good thing, having a fundamental lack of structure (c.f. Golden Sun: The Lost Age, where I never had a bloody clue where the hell I was going next), is an unforgiveable flaw.

    There is absolutely no way you can accuse MP2 of having a lack of structure. I think that the one reason that most other games have this A to B gameplay is because it would take an enormous amount of effort to construct a world so free, yet possessing such a rigid structure as MP2. This is no Farcry, or Lost Age, or anything else.

  • #97 7 years ago

    Absolutely wonderfully entertaining review, as always :)

    I swear, the quality of the writing on this site puts so many other sites (not just game sites) to shame. Keep the quality up lads and I'll keep coming back!

    Also, I just loved the headers that you put in each section:

    Sell your Grandmother!
    Rob Banks!

    Indeed. Does anyone know how much a 10 year old dead granny is going for these days? :)

    Never let the tards get you down lads, we LOVE you ;)

    Mapster
    Edited by 1 at 09/12/04 @ 23:39

  • elvenearth #98 7 years ago

    I personally thought that the single player experience of Metroid Prime, when played for the 1st time through, was more immersive and enjoyable then Halo 1 single Player. That said Halo has better repeat value in its single player mode. I have yet to make the comparison with the the 2nd one's...

  • elvenearth #99 7 years ago

    Go to www.gamerankings.com - Metroid Prime 2 has consistently received a similar score to what Eurogamer has given it.

  • Royal Fool #100 7 years ago

    Eurogamer nintendo bias adjustment = -1

    Everyone is biased towards Nintendo, so this is hardly worth mentioning. :)

  • Nikanoru #101 7 years ago

    Whoa there, Rachel, I don't think many people would consider my post an attack. I sure didn't.

    Yes, comparing an element of MP2's gameplay to something Nintendo did before and call it old (it's not, really - the constant losing/reloading health makes for a whole different experience than just "a different version of the level";), while in the case of all H2 and HL2, the entirety of the game concept has been rehashed from the kazillion FPS' that preceded it (same with most other games in other genres these days, btw), is indeed "a bit of a nonsense statement." Is that what offended you? I could've said "U R dumb," but I wouldn't do such a thing.

    Calculated:
    Plenty of backtracking = -1
    Respawning enemies through the backtracked areas = -1
    My anti-nintendo bias adjustment = -1

    Fixed. ;)

  • Machiavel #102 7 years ago

    It'll be discounted, mark my words - maybe will be *before* Xmas, so watch the sales.

    Yay! Then I can justify beating my head against a persistent boss and never finishing the thing. Great review.

  • #103 7 years ago

    This review has got me all excited and wanting to play the game lol

    I feel like a kid in a sweet shop ;)

    I have the game at home but only played it for an hour. You see, a certain PAPER MARIO 2 is sucking up all my gameplay time (25 hours in), and really ladies and gentlemen, it's rather good. Actually, it's absolutely brilliant.

    Metroid Prime 2 Echoes, I just want you to know I'm off for a week over christmas, and I shall make sweet, sweet love to you gently and often :)

    Mapster.

  • vpin #104 7 years ago

    Agreed. PM2 is a wonderful game. Even though it seems to be tailored for a younger audience, I feel like that does nothing to take away from the simple fact PM2 is an excellent, well crafted game.

    Sorry for going off-topic.

    MP2 Echoes sure has some shiny packaging. For some reason, I like it though. Haven't opened mine yet, it's still factory sealed. And will remain so, until I finish playing Mega Ten Nocturne, Shadow Hearts Covenant and MGS3.

  • tiddles #105 7 years ago

    Metroid Prime 2 is the perfect Christmas game - you know, the game you play between Christmas and New Year, when there's loads of time and nothing on TV, you need to shut out the lamentations of your relatives and you've got time to work where the **** everything is and where you're supposed to be going.

    Except I'm playing it now... oh well.

  • Beano #106 7 years ago

    Nice score... still waiting for my copy from play.com :(
    Edited by 1 at 10/12/04 @ 12:05

  • mattigan #107 7 years ago

    I personally didn't find the bosses in MP1 that hard, apart from Omega Pirate (4-5 attempts), and the final boss(es) (9-10 attempts) it was pretty much plain sailing all the way through. On MP2 I died more times on the big worm boss than I did through the entirity of MP1, I'm glad Retro have forced me to raise my game, I can't remember the last time I said "Have that you Fucker" at the TV with quite such a feeling of satisfaction, as when I fired off the finishing shot to that boost ball git.

    This this type of satisfaction runs throughout this game, Retro have done a great job of making you feel like the odds are stacked against you, but with enough skill and perseverance, you might just be able to take the enemy out with a sliver of energy to spare.

    Marvelous!!
    Edited by 1 at 10/12/04 @ 12:29

  • Nikanoru #108 7 years ago

    Ok, hold it right there. Some people here need to stop using terms like "they didn't pull it off" or "it is rubbish/boring" and instead use "they did not construct this to my liking" or "I find it rubbish/boring." Because such language clarifies that it is in fact not the entire dev team (that produced two of the most critically acclaimed games ever), but YOU who lies at the heart of the problem.

    You don't go around saying that Leonardo DaVinci didn't know jack shit about painting, if you don't like his work, now do you?

  • #109 7 years ago

    You don't go around saying that Leonardo DaVinci didn't know jack shit about painting, if you don't like his work, now do you?
    Not sure I entirely agree with your sentiments, but hey, not to worry!

    I love MP, but can easily see why it doesn't float everyone's boat. This is for the exact same reason that I am currently extracting very little fun value from Halo2, it just doesn't do it for me.

    I like to think that the more intellectual gamer will appreciate MP2.

    That's me then!

    /realises has just insulted everyone who doesn't like MP and runs

    ;)

    Mapster.

  • Cubfan #110 7 years ago

    The first MP was a technical masterpiece. Great-looking, with a coherent mood and ambience that permeated every little graphic and sound. Unfortunately though, the game itself just dragged, it ultimately wasn't that fun an experience. And 'fun' is the requisite characteristic I desire from my games. So while I appreciate MP's design, the developers have a world of talent no-doubt, they really needed to nail down the gameplay, and they just didn't.

    I love the 2D metroids, and I know MP is structured in a similar vein, but they just didn't seem as slow and tedious as the 3D translation.

    MP could have been a great game, and I couldn't care less what the critics say, it simply wasn't. And I think that's proven by the fact that the sequel is being largely ignored (at least here in the states). A lot of people didn't find the fun in Metroid Prime. I didn't.

    And I'm a fan of subtitled films, classic novels and the like, so its not that I'm dumb or lack an attention span.

  • Nikanoru #111 7 years ago

    MP could have been a great game, and I couldn't care less what the critics say, it simply wasn't. And I think that's proven by the fact that the sequel is being largely ignored (at least here in the states).

    If you're judging a game on its sales, that's ridicilous because we all know how well Rogue Agent sold. *cough* In fact, if you're so intelligent you should be very aware of the fact that sales mean absolutely nothing these days.

    Yes, they did nail down the gameplay, the game DEFINES the term gameplay, for christ sakes. You got no fun out of it, that's fine, but don't say that they did it wrong, instead lay blame on difference in taste, because that's all it is.


    This reminds me of my little brother....I let him play Castevania: SOTN the other day. He sliced away at a few enemies, got to a locked door. Fiddled around a bit in the same area, door was still locked. "I wanna do another game, this is boring." Many people are still like that, even into adulthood. Roll on Halo 7! Hi there FIFA 2009 and the Sims 12: Ghetto Life: Sup Niggah!

  • mixed #112 7 years ago

    What's with this prevailing opinion that Metroid Prime 2 is hard?
    It isn't .. or at least the first 3/4 of the game (as far as I am up to) isn't. No boss has taken more than 4 attempts and the puzzles while very enjoyable certainly arnt THAT taxing. It's a nice challenge of a game, but far from hard.

    I would also say ignore eurogamers view that the game is best played with a guide. All you need to do is refer to the map and it is piss easy to work out which areas you need to go and explore. And if the game thinks you are diddly dallying around too much it tells you exactly where to go. And save points are everywhere, maybe it's just me, but I like the methodical approach to exploring a bit, finding an item or killing a boss, then going off to save, then off again exploring another bit. When most games seem to urge you to plough through them at pace saving as you go along, It's refreshingly old school in my opinion and adds to the tension of the game.

    I can understand criticisms of the games plot and environments compared to the original and definately the rather standard first two or three hours of gameplay. But at the moment I'm of the opinion that overall it is better than Metrid Prime. The level design is better, the puzzles are ace and there are alot more ball bits ... the boss fights as a ball are particularly enjoyable.

    Edited by 2 at 11/12/04 @ 20:04

  • ProfessorLesser #113 7 years ago

    Finally, I've been tyring to register for ages. Ok, bit of an essay coming up. DO NOT READ IF SPOILERS WILL OFFEND.








    First off, MP2 is certainly more challenging than MP in an overall sense (the world feels more oppressive), but I thought the boss battles really were quite weak. Only the cut-scenes of Dark Samus encounters were worth much merit... all actual encounters themselves were beyond easy. None of the major boss battles caused much difficulty... in fact I died against a grand total of none of them. Some of the sub guardians were great, though, as well as tough... boost/spider guardians in particular. The chykka was the only engaging boss fight in my opinion. As an aside, did anybody else feel that the third iteration of the penultimate boss was just the Metroid Prime all over again? Even the Warrior Ing look like MP.

    I've read some of your comments, and I feel like some of you would benefit from being introduced to modal adjectives, such as 'could' in particular. The light/dark theme could have been amazing. The story could have been so much better than in MP. But in the end, it was all underdeveloped. The only thing used to its fullest in the game, IMO, was the morph ball. At this point I feel I should make it clear that I am Nintendo Die-Hard #1, and loved MP to tiny tiny pieces, ranking it alongside OoT in its time, and can't quite place Super Metroid. I feel it is also the case that much of what I'm saying won't apply to anybody who isn't Nintendo Die-Hard #s 1 through 14 (haha.. pity).

    After MP, I begin to salivate at the prospect of a sequel. I wondered what they would do to reinvent it. I realised I didn't want them to, but felt they would anyway. These were (honest to god) my exact thought processes:

    Q: How do you produce a sequel to such a critically-acclaimed master piece?
    A: Re-release the original with some fundamental differences.
    Q: What, in this day and age, would be considered most fundamental to the experience?
    A: The guns. Always about the guns.
    Q: Ah, but in this game, they're not guns, they're beams. So they need to be some kind of energy. Well, we've had fire, ice and electrical... what else is left?
    A: Hmm... that's a toughie. Wait a minute... what about 'light' and 'dark' energy? Yes, it's brilliant! What a perfectly utilised system of polarity such as was seen in LttP we could invent!
    Q: Won't that be really hard?
    A: Yep.

    And to me, it's as if that's how Retro started out. They had the light and dark beams, and then set out to build their game, story, setting and all, around these universal opposites. And in order to make it seem coherent, they really went to town, so much so that (and I mean this) ABSOLUTELY NONE OF IT was done as well as it could have been. The dark world is uninteresting and uncompelling. You don't want to go there. Also, take away the purple and it'd just be black and white lines on the screen. And then... light/dark suits, ammo, doors, switches, enemies, weaknesses, portals... there's just too much, and none of it hits the spot.

    Allow me to wax lyrical a moment over just one such example... perhaps the most sorely missed opportunity of all. Dark Samus. I just said two words that made your spine tingle, didn't I? I know they did, because they did mine. What an excellent, all-devouring concept... an evil version of yourself. It's arguably the only thing that held Metroid Fusion afloat. But this time around... oh, how we are let down. Like I've said, I loved the cutscenes with Dark Samus in. They were fantastic. Such tension has never been felt before. Ever. EVER. And howEVER... yet more could have been done. The second encounter, I find it reasonable to argue, was somewhat more lacking than the other two. The reason? Evidential proof that Retro, in going to town, took 12 too many wrong turns and ended up in that funny little alleyway where the hobo who drinks bleach 'lives'. Why, for the love of all things lovable, should Samus have a Dark Suit, when a Dark Samus already exists? WHY? It took the edge of the encounter to see two Dark Samus' (Sami?). The reason? "Like charges repel" - the polarity here should have been constant. Samus should be thoroughly light, just as Dark Samus is obviously constantly Dark. Samus, our beloved heroine, is just that. The heroine, the saviour, the Bringer of Light. The Entrusted One. She should have no dark components at all, including the dark beam. (On the beams... progression should have been Power, charge, wave, ice, plasma then LIGHT!). Kudos must be here paid on the light suit... while the last 5 or 6 items have no real use (so disappointing), the light suit stands out as making the game better just for looking so friggin' cool. THAT is how it should have been... Samus brings the light. (On the suits... progression should have been power, varia, gravity (stupid gravity boost makes her look like a hunchback) then LIGHT!). Retro should have been more careful with their polarisation of the insta-classic that was the original.

    9/10 indeed... but there are far too many places where 11/10 scream out at you, trapped behind the all too tangible barrier of your own imagination. Shame.

    There... bet it won't let me post the damn thing now. Just as well, coz I have much more I could say :D
    Edited by 2 at 11/12/04 @ 20:42

  • Cubfan #114 7 years ago

    Nikanoru-

    Where in my post did I say that popularity is a sign of quality? I didn't.

    Apparently there were many people who weren't entirely impressed by the first MP, this is proven by the lower sales of MP2 compared to the original. I am simply comparing myself to these people.


    Yes, they did nail down the gameplay, the game DEFINES the term gameplay, for christ sakes. You got no fun out of it, that's fine, but don't say that they did it wrong, instead lay blame on difference in taste, because that's all it is.

    "You got no fun out of it, that's fine, but don't say that they did it wrong, instead lay blame on difference in taste, because that's all it is."

    If I don't enjoy a game, then I can most definitely say they did it wrong. My opinion is my opinion, and I'm entitled to it.

    And thanks for questioning my intelligence and comparing myself to your little brother. An excellent debate tactic.

    And don't think I'm some trigger happy kid with a two second attention span. I was playing text-only adventure games- typing for a half hour in a trial and error attempt to guess what text the game might be looking for- when you were but a little seed doing laps in your father's nutsack.

  • drks #115 7 years ago

    didn't think i'd enjoy this - liked mp1 but gave up after struggling with omega pirate for like a year.

    but got it despite my better judgement and...


    i'm enjoying it much more than the previous one. gameplay seems slighlty better balanced, havne't had any massive treks across the entire planet yet like there were too many of in mp1. i didn't even know there was a plot in the first one. which may have been my problem.

  • Kami #116 7 years ago

    Ooh. Dear god, to come back here after a few months (moved house etc) and walk into another one of these discussions... two words for ya. DEJA. VU.

    OK, I'll try and play middle ground here.


    Metroid Prime 2 IS NOT ABOUT THE SHOOTING. If you just want to shoot stuff, and see things get splatted about, then I would suggest going elsewhere - but then, these people are already playing Halo 2 and calling a brilliant game (Don't get me started on Halo 2. No, seriously, don't. Talk about the most overhyped... [snip]). MP2, the same as MP, is about more than shooting stuff. Therefore, the pace is a little slower to accomodate. The world of Metroid Prime 2, to be honest, is extraordinarily well designed and very rarely did I backtrack through an area and complain too much. But I DID however find Metroid Prime 2 a little linear at times, a little too much "you must go here. NOW!"

    People complain about the difficulty of MP2 - to be honest, while I admittedly got stuck on some bosses (That Boost Ball boss... ARGH! KILL! MAIM! DESTORY! KAMI SMASH! KAMI CRASH!), the solution to killing them is often tactical and requires you to just keep an eye out, to read the scan data, and to just persist at it. Again, NOT everyones cup of tea. Those who like this kind of thing and like to be forced to think in the heat of a battle, will always love this. But the rest, and by this I will use the term "THE MASSES", don't - they want to shoot something no-questions-asked.

    I think some people easily confuse Metroid Prime 2's genre as a FPS, when it really isn't. It's an adventure game at heart, it's about the world, the exploration. Scanning flora and fauna, and kicking the asses of the Space Pirates as well. It's NOT everyones idea of a great game, but purely on the basis of creating a believable, vivid, structured and immensely detailed world to go and experience - I have never really played a game which has given me so much to take in. Take combat out of the equation for a moment, the whole structure of the game world is, at times, breathtaking. The draw distance is very good, it runs smoothly, and the little details - too many to mention - really set the whole game up as something which is more than just a battleground. It's an incredible environment, both light and dark planes.

    However, taking combat into its own, I'd say that combat has been tweaked very nicely to acommodate the whole light/dark thing. The whole respawn issue is valid to a point - but then, in the construct of the games "plot", where the Dark are trying to take over the Light (why is it never the other way around? Sheesh.), respawn makes some kind of sense. It would have been nice to have curbed it a little, slowed it, and in places - just got rid of it. But considering some people fail to scan something first time, respawns gives them more of a chance to complete their logbook. I'm sure thats the main reason, but it doesn't make me any more in favour of it.

    The one thing which bugs me about MP2 is the Screw Attack. It suddenly feels so out-of-place, so unnecessary, so clunky. And now pits are thrown in too to really push frustration levels to breaking point? No, that was definately a very, Very, VERY bad idea. It doesn't work, it doesn't fit into the game, it feels alien and to be honest - in MP1, I never once really felt it lacked the Screw Attack. I think they had to introduce new modules and the Screw Attack was the easiest to throw in, which they did with very little thought into how it would actually work in practice. It felt so alien, at times it felt like a whole different game, just in those small sections where you need to use Screw Attack. It was the part which would have definately pushed the score down for me. While the majority of the game feels wonderful, the Screw Attack and sections where you'd need to use the Screw Attack noticably lacked any fine-tuning, and felt more like a last-minute rush-job kinda thing than the main bulk of the game.


    Sure, the light and dark thing isn't original. Then again, what is these days? We always see "more of the same" - GTA:SA is more of the same, yet I don't see anyone complain about that too much. Half Life 2 was nothing especially new bar the physics and the graphics, it played the same, it felt the same, it challenged me about the same - forgive me, but thats being called the "Game of the Year". And in my opinion, it moves the genre forward very little - while I admit it's certainly a great game, I think hype has pushed the claims too far. Heck - Doom 3, Halo and Halo 2, Medal of Honour titles - I haven't seen ANYTHING in the FPS genre in recent years which I would hands-down say REALLY pushes the genre forwards in leaps and bounds - I'd almost say that they've all just started to use the same old routines again but in nicer packaging. And same goes with games in general, some really good titles, but nothing which is going to stick around long into the next generation, I fear.

    And the main reason people won't buy this game is - yup, IT'S ON GAMECUBE ONLY! And the words, "Only for Nintendo Gamecube" are like the kiss of death these days. I'd like to stand here and defend Nintendo - I cannot. In reality, I do feel Nintendo Gamecube is on it's last legs now. I love Nintendo titles, I really REALLY do, and still think the majority of Nintendo titles are sheer class. But recently, I think the standards have started to slip and that has really crippled any chance I see of Nintendo being a serious competitor for the rest of this generation.

    But even though Nintendo Gamecube is unpopular with the masses, despite all the problems, and the little faults with MP2 - MP2 straight up, is definately a very very good game. Probably the best example of an ADVENTURE game (See? I stress the genre again!) on the market. And Nintendo have pulled out some strong titles for Xmas (surprise... yeah. Me too.). Will it save Nintendo? No.

    Does that mean people should ignore MP2?

    No.

    I'd give it an 8. I just wish that Retro Studios had focused less on adding stuff which the game just didn't need, and instead just focused on something else.


    Anyway, dunno when I'll be back here so - flame away! It'll probably be ages before I return and I could be roasted a thousand times over before I get back to defend myself.

    Hmm... Flame-Grilled Kami. Wonder if theres a market for that...

  • neilhylands1 #117 7 years ago

    i see no1 has commented on this game for a long time, but i thought i would just point out that amazon.co.uk are currently selling it for £10.96!!
    buy it!!!!!

  • Duckers #118 6 years ago

    Why didn't you give it a ten? You gave MP ten! You know, the first one! Grrr.. Those yellow blast shields are getting me fizzin'-mad though...