Mafia Comments by Gestalt

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Is it ?

Or is it just the begining ?

IGN, and we know how accurate their reviews always are.

How anyone can read one of their reviews whilst blocking out the 3/4 screen advert for the game being reviewed I do not know.

Or is it just the begining ?

I get my copy today so I'll be sure to post a small paragraph on my thoughts, because I know how much you all care. :)

I have to agree with the complaints that Gestalt raises against Mafia. But, I do enjoy the game despite them.

I think what Illusion Softworks do well is create games with an 'I'm there' factor; which is the part I enjoy the most. I don't get that with many other games: NWN, MOHAA, JKII(to a lesser extent) all leave me feeling I'm directing the action from the sidelines.

END OF THREAD Pt2

Edit: Damn plurals

PS:Due to unforseen circumstances this is now the END OF THREAD PT2.1

@Errol, no, it must carry on! :p

RegergitateMe, to my knowledge one is still pestered by the police, i could try further out in the country maybe.

"Perhaps this is also a sign that the publishers know that they will not get any more for it (after all the 'bad' reviews). "

Well, no, it's still £30 which isn't a budget price, just a bit cheaper than some new releases. After all the 'bad' reviews? I haven't seen any, it's gone up to %90 on game rankings based on a few more reviews, and the user vote shows 8.8/10.

The old 'log out and pretend you're several different people' trick eh Errol? ;)

It erm ... never fails.

Errol: please don't do that again, it's becoming tiring!

On day of release in Game Mafia was 35:99...

I would also like the GTA3 thing where i could tweak my cars...the hours of fun i had with that, i even managed to drive up a wall once :D

Mr Sleep.. what's that all about, I must have missed that one!

On the PC version of GTA3 there is a file called handling (i think it is an ini) which can be opened in notepad, with the right tweaking one can make the cars do some very strange things. A friend of mine altered a Perrenial to be so fast that he could jump through the gap from Portland to Staunton Island.

It improved the longevity of the game for me, i made some truly amazing cars, although I did complete the game first before even realising the settings existed.

For instance i made the Rhino (tank) drive like a Banshee.

Hehe, damn. May have to pickup the PC version 2nd hand then :) It's that sort of (genuine?) faffing about I miss on console gaming.

Doing the Vigilante missions in a tank that drives like a sportscar is a blast, the only problem being barrell rolling the tank.

I think i will stop adding any more comments to this thread it is taking about a minute to load now.

I never realised GTA3 had that kind of 'modding' allowed. I will have to pick up the pc version as well now (if I can get it cheap).

Okay this is my last comment (until next time ;) ) in this thread.

You can also alter the default skin of your character, for instance i gave my character a beard and a grey T-Shirt, takes a little bit of photoshop skill but it didn't take too long.

Ok, I know I'm late put I'll post my two cents now since I've had the chance to play the game. Bare in mind I'm just commenting on what I've seen so far.

Mafia would be decent if you were to add one more word to the title: Driver. Damn straight there is too much driving in this game and I just don't see why (well that's a lie... its probably down to the fact that the city has no life - more on that later - and so there's nothing to see on foot). I actually like the handling of the cars and the small speeds don't bother me too much (makes it easier to shoot), but this is insane. Perhaps its because the developers put so much time into the vehicles that they wanted to base a game around it, but then they shouldn't call it Mafia.

Performance wise I haven't had a problem but maybe that's because it looks pretty bad. I have everything maxed on my p3 866 512RAM Radeon DDR64 at 1024x768 32bit and was impressed to see things run so smoothly, but then I realised why. There's nothing to run. The city feels dead with no objects such as benches, wastepaper baskets, litter etc, floating around. The buildings look boring well the layout is extremely blocky. There are very few back alleys to run around and almost no vertical character involving change. Then there's the textures, on pair with Duke Nukem 3D. I actually disagree with Gestalt that the city looks good. Its pretty damn bad. As for the countryside.... wooahh... is this 1990? Does Vette live? Are we incapable of even subtly putting in landscape borders? Driving along the out-of-town roads really feels like going through a tunnel. Finally, the population... well they're nothing great. They wonder aimlessly and don't interact with the landscape at all (sit down, enter buildings, stop to talk to one another etc). GTA3 was also guilt of this, except it had a few amusing sounds to provide some sort of entertainment.

Maybe this is all my card's problem, but then I do know it can produce decent looking sceneries in other games, so the fault there would lie with the developers.

I won't bother with commenting on the scripting because I think its been covered enough. Needless to say its damn obvious, and that's not a good thing.

The sound is a redeeming feature though. The cars do sound like 1930s, in otherwords shitty. :)

Was it worth £20? Well I've just finished the stupid race track level (because that was really relevant. Sigh.) and quit after I was told to do some more driving, so perhaps later on things will pick up (I'd like some more of that motel scene). However, if this is the way its going to stay, then I wouldn't take it off the shelf for free. A shame... actually no it isn't. Its just bad. I was hoping for Hitman meets GTA in the 1930s. Not the case. At this stage 4/10 is generous.

I'll probably give this another go when I fancy some virtual driving, otherwise back to Medieval Total War and the BF1942 demo.

"us gamers need more of a challenge"

Most gamers don't need more of a challenge, or at least not to this degree. Mafia is simply too hard for a lot of people, particularly in a few specific missions such as the race, the garage, perhaps the church and a couple of others. Even Illusion seem to accept that, as there's some suggestion that they're going to add an option to skip the race mission in a forthcoming patch.

I'm willing to bet that, while most people don't mind replaying a mission a few times, having to do it over and over again to get it right and ending up failing a mission through no fault of their own because the AI broke down or they got their car rolled over by some psychopath just isn't fun, especially if the mission is utterly irrelevant to the rest of the game, like the race.

As I've said before, Illusion should have included a choice of difficulty settings, a wimp mode with one or two manual saves allowed per mission, and/or an option to skip a mission and move on if you failed it a few times in a row. Any one of those options would have made the game much more entertaining and less frustrating for players who aren't ultra hardcore. Let's face it, I play games for a living, I've played tons of action games going right back to Wolfenstein 3D, and I still found parts of Mafia virtually impossible to complete. Just imagine what Joe Bloggs must make of it. I'd be interested to see what the return rate was like for this game...

Mafia is simply too hard for a lot of people, particularly in a few specific missions such as the race, the garage, perhaps the church and a couple of others

This smacks of a serious lack of playtesting. One wonders if the playtesting time was cut short to rush the release ?

I'll probably give this another go when I fancy some virtual driving, otherwise back to Medieval Total War and the BF1942 demo

Another treat this week is the expected release of the UT 2003 demo (Mark Rein posted on the official forum to such effect).

It seems that the reason why Mafia so divides opinions is that some people believe it to be a "hardcore" game, and liking it gives them "hardcore gamer" status.

Me? I'm an editor and I gave it three stars out of five, for it is woefully average. The beautiful presentation is so marred by the bad structure and forced repetition. On rails -gaming is so nineties ;)

Mafia is simply too hard for a lot of people, particularly in a few specific missions such as the race, the garage, perhaps the church and a couple of others

Hard? More likely stupidly designed. The only level I had difficulty on was the racing track, the others have been a piece of piss. I actually contined onward last night (someone told me that the game really started after the race course so I thought I'd have another look) and managed to zoom past the hotel, church and farm levels. They were fun to do, but so small and too easy. Problem is I keep having to do all this freakin' driving.

Now I hear there won't be a patch (according to an official statement). This when the forums are apparantly full of people having problems. Are Illusion really that big a bunch of arseholes? I don't have a problem running it, I just think its poor, but that is really screwing others over.

The city feels dead with no objects such as benches, wastepaper baskets
Er there's plenty of things like that! Benches in the park areas, fire hydrants dot the streets, bins where appropriate, telephone boxes and those peculiar looking pole things that are on the pavement too. It's far too clean on the streets though, a few newspapers or other rubbish blowing around occasionally would add some atmosphere.

Now on my PC (a XP1800 with a GF3 Ti-500) the framerate dives quite often and it seems to be getting worse the further into the game I get.

Imagine what the framerate would be like if they would've added the rubbish on the streets and more lively pedestrians etc.

I wonder why game requirements keep on getting worse and worse, but the advances in graphics fail to impress as much as they used to do. My Athlon 1,53Ghz and GF4Ti4400 are struggling with Mafia, while older games look as good and run without a hiccup.

"If you want the graphics to improve turn on anti-aliasing"

That's not going to do anything about draw distance. :)


"you wouldnt expect to win the british grand prix on your first go with f1gp4 would you"

Not really, but a Grand Prix game is dedicated to racing Grand Prix cars, and Mafia isn't. It's an action game with some driving bits, none of which really compare to the race mission. You don't get any opportunity to practice for it, there's no learning curve to work your way up, the car is much faster than anything else in the game (certainly up to that point), you have to win to continue the game and the chances are you're playing with a keyboard instead of a steering wheel or joypad. It's a nice idea, but the implementation is poor.

It's an action game with some driving bits, none of which really compare to the race mission.

Really? What I'm playing seems to be a driving game with some action bits, which, when the crop up, have been good.

If Mafia is a "driving game", then Morrowind is a "pedestrian simulation". I think somebody -- game researchers in the universities, perhaps? -- should work on the concept of game genres and offer some better options than the current abstractions. The primary form of transportation in a game hardly is enough to make such a classification, driving simulations of course being a different thing.

I would bet 99% of those who buy Mafia will think it's an action game and be horrified by the race mission. I'm a Grand Prix Legends player, so after getting used to the horrible racing AI I won the race on the third try. But it's a shame how the computer drives...

Czech what?... ;)

I can't really think of any clever counter argument to that ramble, so I'm just going to tell you to piss off.

lol. What a great post Zombo. Exactly where can I find this patch you're talking of and how is the sound better? (Rhetorical question)

Czech republic is little country in Middle Europe

Take a look at the name of this site: Eurogamer. We're not Americans. We do know where countries are.

If Mafia is a "driving game", then Morrowind is a "pedestrian simulation".

Except Morrowind actually has an environment that you can interact with on your travels. Sure it can get long winded at times, but there are always little caves to explore, monsters to kill, things to steal. Mafia's transport is immensely boring. The car chasing/shooting is fun, but how often does that happen?

Also, why do I always have to drive half way across town to get my mission and then drive back the other way to take it on? Why not have objectives closer to one another?

I would bet 99% of those who buy Mafia will think it's an action game and be horrified by the race mission.

And rightly so. The title is "Mafia" not "Mafia Driver" or "Mafia Racer". If they'd actually advertised it as a driving game I wouldn't mind, because I'd have stayed away (my first and last lesson in not playing a demo or reading a review before buying a game). This game has got great reviews because of its hype, that's it.

It's just a number.

Maverick, relax, the Czech Republic is a lovely country with really nice people, the fact that someone finds fault with a game that happens to have been developed there does not change that fact. This has nothing to do with the nationality of the developers or reviewers. Mediocre games can be made anywhere, in fact they are. Go back through the reviews on this site and you'll find plenty of critical reviews of games coming from the UK (not least Black & White, a high profile British game that got spanked in its review on EG). You'll also find lots of praise for developers from central & eastern Europe, for example here. You have no reason to be on the defensive.

What he said - did you actually read the B&W review?!

American tastes tend to differ from European tastes. B&W is a prime example. I have never even heard the idea entertained that a journalist might score a game lower simply because it wasn't developed in their home country.

In fact, I remember a lot of reviews for Serious Sam praising the work of the Croatian team and some said it was a delight to see new players in the market. And that received high scores across the board.

[quote]I have never even heard the idea entertained that a journalist might score a game lower simply because it wasn't developed in their home country.[/quote]

Same here. The only time I may bring up nationality in a game is when it is so blatently bred into it... e.g. America's Army. Otherwise a good game is a good game no matter where it is from. My favourite games of all time are Deus Ex and Europa Universalis 2. The latter is Swedish and I have nothing to do with that country.

As for Mafia, I think the issue here, Maverick, is that some people, and I'm included, simply think its a shitty game. It got 4/10 because it deserved it, although I've already said I think even that was generous.

It's true that B&W didn't get a score on EG, I think because the reviewer felt that any score would be too subjective and detract from the review he'd written (see the comments). I think you're best off ignoring the scores (when the review has one) and concentrating on the written review. You'll find that Mafia and Black & White seem to come out roughly equal in EG's estimation that way. Both highly anticipated games, both rather disappointing in their execution (according to EG - I don't know, I haven't played Mafia, but I agree with them on B&W which I didn't enjoy at all).

The moral of the story, as has been said so many times: drop the 'points out of ten' scoring system. It just distracts people. :)

Hang on, what's this?

"Each mission is followed by a long and badly acted cut scene... I'm also not convinced with the cars. They're all 1930's bone shakers. There's a few surprises but in the main they're very slow and very crap to handle, which just isn't fun at all... My main complaint about it now is that its bloody difficult, and there's no save anywhere, so there's a lot of play, die, replay."

Now, who could have said that? Why, it's Slim. The same person who said here that "marking a 1930's game down on having authentic 1930's speed cars" is silly and that only two of the game's twenty missions are hard. Shurely shome mishtake? ;)

I wonder how many people would continue to get on their high horse if all this bickering was done face to face.

The internet: a perfect, anonymous soap box, breeder of an untold number of plebs. Bring back the days of 10p a minute calls to Prestel, that'll soon filter out these gimps.

The review doesn't have a score. So how is it going to appear on gamerankings?

o_O

Ahh another comment from me in the, what i thought dead, Mafia topic.

I finished it in under a week, not spending more than a few hours on it at a time, whoever says it is too difficult is wrong in my opinion. It is however awkward, the scene at the end is a perfect example where one gets mowed down by a Tommy Gun easily, requiring one to almost cheat to shoot your opponent. There are several other bits of the game which almost require one to use scum cheesy tactics to succeed, which is rather dissapointing.

I found it entertaining enough and the Freeride Extreme looks to be a good laugh since there are no coppers around. The later cars that one gets from Lucas Bertoni make up for the other rather poor cars at the start.

Mafia isn't exactly a world beater, but it is something to fill the void, although personally I would buy Medieval Total War instead, that is a quality game.

the feckin thing is so slow even on my gf4 o/c to feck
Strangely enough it's probably your soundcard causing the problems not your GF4. Using my PC's onboard Nforce sound the performance would regularly drop to single digits and be awful, having put an Audigy in I can now run it at 1024x768x32 with some AA on my GF3 perfectly.

"in one mission you find yourself caught in an ambush in a multi-storey car park. Now, the logical place to autosave would be when you reach your meeting place on the top floor, just before the shooting begins. Instead it autosaves at the beginning of the cinematic showing you driving up to the front of the building, leaving you to skip through two cutscenes and climb three flights of stairs before you can get back into the action if you have to restart the level. "

Funnily enough I'm stuck on this bit.

I just read this review today! Gestalt you evil man. Mafia is amazing. Your concerns are duly noted, pretty much everything you've said about Mafia is true. However, you concerntrate too much on these negative aspects of the game, then again, not everyone may see them as negative.

Anyway, my point. Gestalt I have alot of respect for you due too your usual quite well balanced reviews, but this one, this one is just... well... not.

That level is what was in the demo. Quite tough, the fighting in the car-park. But there was only one cut-scene to skip, in the demo that is.

Months later, on another planet: Er, I am playing Mafia right now, quite far into it already, and it's downright wonderful. It has its flaws, but at every second on on every corner of the game you can see it was a labour of love. I've never seen a game before with such an incredible eye for details. And the graphics are still nothing short of amazing. Frankly, I feel sorry for anyone who missed out on this because of the score, cause a game like that comes along once a year at best. A 9 out of 10 for me, marked down because of the niggles.

I really enjoyed it as well, in fact this is one of a very small number of PC games that I've been bothered enough about to complete over the last couple of years. The story was good and kept me playing, the third person shooter levels had loads of atmosphere and were great fun to play, the only weak part of the game IMO was the driving which could have been improved massively by removing the incredibly strict speed limits and letting you run red lights.

I am constantly violating speed limits and red light, that's half the fun, isn't it? And unlike GTA3, where the police always seems to know where you are, you can really get rid of the police here by taking sidestreets until they lose track of you.

Btw, these shootouts are some of the most brilliant moments I have encountered in an action game for years. Like that shootout in the church, for instance, bloody marvellous.

It is a good game. I must get back to the Freeride Extreme mode and finish it, some of the challenges are "extremely" difficult to say the least.

UL if you're trying to keep legal with the speed limit just hit the limiter button! Makes it rather easier when trying to avoid antagonising the cops.