Jak II: Renegade Review

By Kristan Reed Published 8 October, 2003

The pinnacle of platform gaming or too steep a climb?

Version tested: PlayStation 2

Doesn't it make you sick when some smart Alec pipes up that a game is 'too easy' after you've sweated blood attempting to get even halfway through what you thought was an epic game? There was certainly a chorus of allegedly 1337 gamers after Jak & Daxter came out two years ago. Some grudgingly admitted it was the best platformer ever (and it was, unbelievers), but usually followed up with bile relating to its perceived lack of challenge. Gah. For us, it pitched the difficulty perfectly, and the fact that we went back after we 'finished' the game and collected all the orbs and eggs speaks volumes for the pleasure we gleaned from Naughty Dog's finest 15 hours.

As if stung into action that it can do a hardcore game, Jason Rubin and co. have created perhaps the most challenging platformer of them all. And that's challenging as in you-have-to-play-each-mission-15-times-before-you'll-beat-it challenging. Depending on a mixture of luck and skill it's no exaggeration to suggest that Jak II may well take you well over 30 hours to complete its 50 odd missions, and on the way will take you on an emotional rollercoaster ride which will one minute have you punching the air, and the next punching the wall as you experience some of the most intensely evil gaming challenges ever conceived.

Can't... stop... playing...

'Jak II: Renegade' Screenshot 1

But as with all the best games, something drags you back for 'one more go', which will have you kissing your free time goodbye and testing yourself to the very limits. If there are small children, pets or crockery in the vicinity, best to move them to one side. You don't want to be held responsible for your actions.

One of the most impressive elements of the original was the way you could wander across a vast island and attempt multiple missions without ever seeing an intrusive loading screen. This impressive 'no load' technology has been carried forward into the sequel, but augmented with a vastly different mission structure that draws heavy inspiration from GTA3 and Vice City, offering the player the chance to take 'jobs' with various Underground types struggling against the oppressive rule of Baron Praxis and his army of minions.

Although the mission structure is far more linear than Rockstar's efforts, it still occasionally offers the player several choices, meaning you get the chance to divert your efforts elsewhere if one particularly tough mission is driving you mad. Sadly it doesn't happen enough, and many many times your entire progress will hang on defeating one bastard hard mission. Being stuck down a cul-de-sac is inevitable, but sometimes you'll be so frustrated, you may even down tools entirely - after all, no one enjoys a level so hard that they can't make any further progress.

Thick as thieves

'Jak II: Renegade' Screenshot 2

What has been pinched wholesale from GTA is the premise of setting the game in a city, filled with overzealous stun baton-wielding cops, ready to zap you (and fellow Haven City citizens) at the slightest provocation. Meanwhile, hundreds of randomly generated citizens wander about their daily existence, seemingly for no apparent reason other than to make the game world feel alive.

The GTA comparisons extend to the ability to car jack any of the various hover vehicles that chug slowly across the sky lanes. Hitting Triangle underneath lets you leap aboard, and they vary dramatically in their size, weight, speed and armour - often a crucial aspect to consider during the many street-based missions. Finally, navigation is aided by another GTA favourite - the mini-map - which is placed in the bottom right corner of the screen and allows you to keep an eye on oncoming police patrols and an instant reference point for new jobs.

While the city is a varied, gorgeous rabbit warren of a place with tons to discover, the design is so tight, narrow and twisting that it makes for an utterly frustrating driving experience. At the default height, the city is so packed with slow moving traffic that crashes are almost a given, and any high speed driving almost always results in the police tailing you relentlessly. Getaways are possible, but by no means easy if you can shake these hateful law keepers off your tail. What tends to happen is you'll constantly be driving at ground level, mowing down everyone in your path and desperately trying to avoid too much damage - driving in the sky is often impractical, such is the congestion and chances of crashing. All round, the whole premise of driving around the city isn't fun like GTA. There are no stunts you can pull off, no chance of going on a high speed adventure for the sake of it, just a confusing maze packed to the rafters with gun-toting cops out to stop you from having any fun whatsoever.

Don't give up... the best is yet to come

'Jak II: Renegade' Screenshot 3

Worse still, for the first third of the game you're without a hover board, meaning that should your vehicle blow up, you have an agonising trudge attempting to jack another vehicle - and that's more or less impossible when the cops are busy firing lead into you. Without question, until we got the hover board, we'd almost had enough of Jak II. The fun factor just didn't seem to be high enough on the list for the game.

But as things begin to open up, you start to truly appreciate the challenge, rather than resent it. After one of the most arbitrarily hard boss encounters in gaming history, we began to make headway. Getting all four of the guns and their various upgrades certainly helps, as does learning the layout of the city, but the thing you really start to appreciate is just how much variety Jak II holds.

With approaching 60 missions (yes, that'll be six-oh), there's an impressive amount of variety on offer, meaning the game rarely gets repetitive. To appease fans of the original there are plenty of traditional platforming antics, and unsurprisingly this forms the foundation of the game. Elsewhere Jak II sports immensely impressive Wipeout-style racing missions, mech-based destruction, on-rails shooting, a 'Whack a Metalhead' mini-game (like the Whack a Rat game in Sam & Max), Indiana Jones-style chase sequences, city-based 'ring' racing, protection missions, Tony Hawk-esque hover board missions, puzzle-based block-pushing missions, switch activating missions and a wealth of other minor diversions that constantly keep the game fresh, demanding and exciting. And you can even play as Daxter!

Familiar ground

'Jak II: Renegade' Screenshot 4

The basic controls, thankfully, remain identical to the original, with jump/double jump/spin jump/roll jump/punch and the good old head slam all in there. Gunplay is also high on the agenda, with four weapons assigned to the different D-pad directions, and R1 to fire, with a devastating helicopter blast move that allows Jak to jump, spin and fire, sending a hail of bullets all over the place. On the downside, there's no option to enter a first-person targeting mode, which is slightly annoying (especially as you can still go into a first person view elsewhere with R3), and makes some sections harder than they need to be.

Outside of the stupid, annoying and relentlessly respawning city cops, the army of Metalhead enemies generally provide an intense, enjoyable challenge that keeps you on your toes throughout. Even in the early stages you'll be tested thanks to their unerring accuracy, weight of numbers and a surprisingly switched on level of AI that has you desperately hopping about checking on the status of your health, ammo and sanity. Better still, once you've killed them, a glowing yellow chunk of metal spews forth, allowing Jak to eventually power up his dark side (L2) with progressively devastating moves.

Visually it's a massive achievement, once again. Not only is the city utterly vast on its own, the 15 or so locations outside the city walls are just as intricately crafted and every creature sports superb animation. Again, Naughty Dog's streaming technology almost completely eliminates loading pauses, with only the very occasional pause between new sections. The ambitiousness of the project does occasionally result in the odd glitch, but we trust most of these are the result of the unfinished nature of our 'September' review build.

Return to splendour

'Jak II: Renegade' Screenshot 5

Happily, the frame rate never wavers, the detail levels have reached new heights for a PS2 game, and camera-related issues that blighted the original have almost been entirely eradicated, thank goodness. In Widescreen and Progressive Scan mode, we can't think of a game of its type that comes close to displaying the architectural splendour, sense of scale and fine detail - right down to little showers of dust and rubble in one broken-down area early on - that Jak II manages. We await technological bedfellow Ratchet & Clank 2 with keen interest.

And to top off the huge gameplay variety and staggering longevity of Jak II, the regular immensely impressive (and amusing) cut-scenes help lend the game a sense of purpose that helps spur you on to finishing each section. With around double the number of missions, the cut-scene count has increased accordingly, and among the game's many secrets is the ability to watch each of them at your leisure - a masterstroke given the increasingly sarcastic antics of Jak's unhinged partner Daxter.

Possibly Jak II's only technical weak link is its rather anonymous audio. The soundtrack burbles away in the background and changes pace as and when required, but overall seems decidedly average next to the grandeur elsewhere. Still, we should be thankful that it's not annoying at any stage unlike so many other games. Sometimes the straw that breaks the camel's back is a tinkering ditty, and however intensely frustrated we became with Jak II, it was never down to the audio. With the right set up, it's nice to hear a developer using Dolby Pro-Logic II surround to good effect, though. Truly, if you've got the toys, Naughty Dog caters to them all, and we salute them.

The pain

The hardest thing about reviewing Jak II is recalling how much pain it gave us. We've scanned a few other assessments of this game elsewhere, and rarely do they mention just how hard, how long, how annoying and how frustrating it can be. Shame on them. It's unlikely anyone will breeze through this game, no matter how much of a supposed ninja gamer they are, and you'll question your own sanity sometimes as you replay the same level over and over for three hours or more. Curse Naughty Dog for creating what is - at times - an almost unplayably hard game, but if you can dig deep into your well of persistence and climb this mountain of a game, you'll get a great view of the most involving, rewarding and momentous platform game ever created.

9 / 10

Read the Eurogamer.net scoring policy
Picture of Kristan.

About Kristan Reed

Kristan is a former editor of Eurogamer, dad, Stone Roses bore and Norwich City supporter who sometimes mutters optimistically about Team Silent getting back together.

Read more articles from Kristan by visiting the Kristan Reed archive page.

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Comments (100) Latest comment 8 years ago

Comments threads automatically close after 30 days, but please feel free to continue chatting on the forum!

  • ssuellid #1 8 years ago

    60Hz, WS, Surround and Progressive sound? cool

    The GTAesque city bits do not spoil it then?
    Edited by 1 at 08/10/03 @ 14:51

  • jiroczech #2 8 years ago

    Ah feck.. my no-PS2 resolve is fading. Price cuts, decent back catalog, PES 3 on the horizon and now you say Jak II is "the most involving, rewarding and momentous platform game ever created.". Bastards!

  • jiroczech #3 8 years ago

    Can I invoice EG if I give in and buy one?

  • BartonFink #4 8 years ago

    Ah just get one jiro! They are cheap!

  • Blerk #5 8 years ago

    Heh - I haven't played the first one yet. It's been sat in the 'to play' pile since last Christmas. Man, I wish I had more time. :-)

  • BartonFink #6 8 years ago

    May sound like a silly question but when is this going to be released?
    Is 31st still the official release date?

  • krudster #7 8 years ago

    17th Oct, only nine days to go chaps....

  • krudster #8 8 years ago

    The GTA-esque bits *conspire* to spoil it, but eventually you grow to accept and even like certain elements of it. It'd probably be a 10 if only the streets weren't so fugging winding and narrow.

  • BartonFink #9 8 years ago

    \o/ First PS2 game purchase since god knows when on the 17th then.

  • otto #10 8 years ago

    jiro, get one, and I'll buy it off you in 6 months' time. ;)

  • BartonFink #11 8 years ago

    otto, would you get off the fence and get one ffs. Get it at the same time as you get the G5.

  • Blerk #12 8 years ago

    30 notes if you pre-order from Amazon, btw.

  • krudster #13 8 years ago

    For the time pressed gamer, this might be little too frustrating. It's the kind of game you need a clear block of time to really plough through.

  • Blerk #14 8 years ago

    Another day, another set of 'this score is wrong' posts.

    Lose the scores! Chuck 'em! Go on! We don't need 'em. We can read!

  • Tiger_Walts #15 8 years ago

    Rating: 9 out of 10

    /Hacks SCEE's and Eurogamer staff bank accounts in search of any correlation in transfer of funds.

  • renzo #16 8 years ago

    If it gets a 7 people will complain the score is too low.

    If it gets a 9 it's too high.

    If it gets a 10 it's ludicrous. Getting a 10 is supposed to be impossible according to some people (see SCII review comments thread)

    To solve the problem, just give every game an 8. Nobody ever complains about an 8. :)

  • Nemesis #17 8 years ago

    Just because a game is difficult doesn't mean it gets a shite score surely?

    I get the feeling I'm going to be cursing more than a Shipwrecked Pirate with this one as I found the first one a little frustrating in places. But...it's Naughty Dog. It's Jak and Daxter 2. Come on people.

    Blerk. Shame. SHAME on you. It's a classic. Load it up and get into the funky intro drums Badaboomboombadabombombom


  • krudster #18 8 years ago

    The score is a personal final assessment.

    At the time of the preview, about 42% in I wouldn't said a 7. At some point yesterday I was so pissed off I wouldn't stuck to that. By the time the comedy Whack a Metalhead game arrived it was pushing a 9. Sometimes, the more you play a game, the better it gets. That's the truth with Jak II.

    Sometimes the overwhelming good eventually cancels out the bad and you learn to live with its flaws and don't allow them to curb your enjoyment. It's such a massive game, it'll take a lot of you a long time to really appreciate why this is a 9.

  • Blerk #19 8 years ago

    /shame

    How long will the original game take me to play through, roughly? And will I end up destroying things in frustration like I did with the original Crash Bandicoot?

  • mOth #20 8 years ago

    To solve the problem, just give every game an 8. Nobody ever complains about an 8. :)

    *ahem* :

    http://www.eurogamer.net/article.php?article_id=2628



  • gizmo #21 8 years ago

    lol, beat me to it!

  • krudster #22 8 years ago

    big big lol!

    I think the original probably lasts roughly 12-15 hours. Depending, of course, whether you spend hours hoovering up all the goodies. Which I did, like a fool!

  • Nemesis #23 8 years ago

    Depends if you want the 100% score Blerkie. Been AGES since I played this one, but I think about 10-20 hours. It's a really cool game to play through, I thoroughly enjoyed it. Beautifully crafted levels, characters , cutscenes and incidental music. Definately a classic.

  • Nemesis #24 8 years ago

    ...and the only frustration is finding all the items on the snow level to get that 100%. Which I did. Which I'm glad I did, even though the reward was a bit crappy.

  • Tiitiz #25 8 years ago

    3rd game (2nd to 'hopefully' keep) on the PS2 I will be paying 'real' money for :)))

  • krudster #26 8 years ago

    Zoiks. What *do* you spend your cash on eh?

  • Tiitiz #27 8 years ago

    XSlab and GameKid games

  • krudster #28 8 years ago

    And again in English....?

  • Tiger_Walts #29 8 years ago

    He means Xcube and Gamebox.

  • Zee-Zed-Zipster #30 8 years ago

    Gah! The 17th of October is now going to be forty notes more expensive... and PES3 out on the same day!... anyone know any retailers doing a 'buy 1 get 1 half price' offer ???

  • UncleLou #31 8 years ago

    You lot have some insane jump-and-run skills (in games, I mean), I never properly finished J&D, but I am quite sure I spent well over 20 hours on it. :-/

  • binky #32 8 years ago

    did u just say Zoiks?? :s

    lol.

    So Kruds, would u say this is more frustrating than certain parts of mario sunshine? and there for even mor erewarding once u over come them?

  • ssuellid #33 8 years ago

    3rd game (2nd to 'hopefully' keep) on the PS2 I will be paying 'real' money for :

    I've had a bit of a PS2 spending lull as well recently. Last game I bought for myself on the PS2 was either GTA:VC or VF4 - bought a load of PS1/PS2 dance games for the missus tho.

  • krudster #34 8 years ago

    It's basically as frustrating as your own ability. The tasks are always managable and never difficult because of sloppy controls or a dodgy camera. They're just hard because poor old Jak only has 8 chunks of health, and losing it is easy.
    Sometimes the check points can be a bit mean, especially near the end where you find yourself having to do 10 different tasks before it finally allows you a check point.

  • Urabus #35 8 years ago

    Sadly, I now fall into the category of 'Quick fix gamer', my days of 'I'll beat this level even if it kills me' are long gone.

    So, I won't be buying this game on the 17th..... unless i can get it cheap.

  • krudster #36 8 years ago

    Yeah, quick fix this certainly aint.

  • Soul_quake #37 8 years ago

    would love to get this - but as I am still stuck on Taris after 13hr in KOTOR and I know I still have along way to go I don't see time for this. Have too many games I haven't played (thinks of ETM, Half Life, Deus Ex, Nightfire, Kingdom Hearts) let alone started to justify buying this.

    Still might justify purchase as saying it is christmas pressie for younger sibling :)

  • Pix #38 8 years ago

    To get "progressive scan" working you must have the NTSC-version of the game, an american PS2 and a TV that can handle NTSC right ??

  • krudster #39 8 years ago

    No, this is the PAL version. Quite a few PAL PS2 games support Prog scan now, notably Soul Calibur 2, Tekken 4, Getaway, Primal, Ratchet & Clank 2, to name most of them. It's a treat.

  • krudster #40 8 years ago

    Of course, you need a TV that supports Progressive Scan, but that's mainly the domain of Plasma TVs, I'm afraid. Most high end TVs I've seen support PAL/NTSC/SECAM as standard these days.

  • speedjack #41 8 years ago

    Nope - can't justify this either... although I loved the original.

    Still to get anywhere in KOTOR and having recently bought Soul Caliber 2 (and loved it) its slowly beginning to dawn on me that I too am a 'quick fix' gamer.

    My next purchase is F-Zero GX which should fit the bill nicely.

    Yes, I know its also meant to be hard as nails, but at least I won't have a 40 page manual multiple controls, 50 mini games an a evolving plot line to contend with.

    *sigh*

  • krudster #42 8 years ago

    It's a moot point. Has the time pressed gamer got time for most games these days? I bet we've all got shelves piled high with barely played games that we all swear we'll come back to "when we have the time" but the fact is tomorrow never comes, a spanking new killer app comes out and it gathers dust.
    *sigh*

  • binky #43 8 years ago

    sounds like an idea for an article ;)

  • Soul_quake #44 8 years ago

    Isn't it sad that how we get older (sshhh) we have the money to buy what we want but don't have the time - I dream of the time I used to have when back at prison (school)! All that free time.... arghh..

    I have come to the conclusion that if a game presents a challenge inthat I have to repeatedly do something over and over, i tend to give up cause i just don't have the time to waste on it! Sad as I have persevered on some real tough games before - Rick Dangerous anyone?

  • speedjack #45 8 years ago

    Quite.

    Don't get me wrong.

    I'm not the world's best gamer but I could probably complete all my unfinished killer aps if I gave up my girlfriend, job, eating, sleeping and... (God forbid !) drinking.

    In reality I reckon Jak 2's darker more mature themes and difficulty levels are probably targeted at an slightly older audience than the first outing ?

    Catch is, does your average 20-35 year old really have time to devote to a 'you-have-to-play-each-mission-15-times-before-you'll-beat-i t' challenge.

    I don't.

    So my future purchases are now more likely to be games that will fit into the time period after work, dinner, the pub or during 'her watching her programmes.'

  • krudster #46 8 years ago

    Talking of which, that's my next review!

  • prettyboytim #47 8 years ago

    Would it be too much to ask to have real screenshots in a review rather than faked ones? Those shots are obviously taken using a special dev-mode-render-the-screen-eight-times-the-size-it-should-be -and-resample-down-function, or something like that.

  • krudster #48 8 years ago

    In all seriousness the game *does* look this good if you have the necessary Prog Scan TV etc.

  • Mugwum Verified Operations Director, Eurogamer Network #49 8 years ago

    We can only post screenshots that we have, mate.

  • brutal #50 8 years ago

    you can't make your own!!?!!?

    NOOBS!!!

    :)

  • krudster #51 8 years ago

    Thanks for the nice words...The weapons bit is hardly a spoiler, given that I didn't mention anything about them, or what they do. I mean, it's a bit like revealing that you get better weapons in an FPS...
    Sorry about revealing the Daxter bit; but it is only for about two minutes in the entire game! Whoops, done it again...

    By the way, just finished the game, 98% 32 hours on the clock.

  • krudster #52 8 years ago

    Now onto Ratchet & clank 2...

  • inpHilltr8r #53 8 years ago

    "the frame rate never wavers"

    *cough* bullshit *cough*

    You see those big horizontal tears? That's the framerate dropping. Other than that, spot on.

  • beep #54 8 years ago

    Nice to see developers such as Naughty Dog actually bothering to push the PS2, particularly in art style and technology.

    I love to see distinct art styles rather than yet another PC-esque looking game with a crap framerate.

  • Kami #55 8 years ago

    I admit, I did breeze through J+D - it lasted me a grand total of seven days. It is true that they were a great seven days. But J+D's major failing was when you got everything, the game suddenly lost it. There was no fun to be had replaying it all over again unlike a certain Mario 64.

    J+D2 has sparked my interest, and I can't wait to try it out. Challenge? Bring it on! About time a PS2 platformer of this quality posed a challenge, usually they're aimed at the "casual, braindead gamer" types who need simplicity.

  • BLACKSHEEP #56 8 years ago

    Ah Naughty Dog, the developer that likes to say 'Yes' :D

  • krudster #57 8 years ago

    Once you've roared around the city in the last ring race, or played any of the stadium challenges, try saying with a straight face that this has frame rate issues!

  • Seth. #58 8 years ago

    J&D was an overrated game imo. It didn't have any good platform/timing puzzles like Klonoa, Donkey Kong and even Mario. It was too straight-forward: collect the items, punch the enemies use the boring vehicles, just basic platform gameplay that simply isn't interesting enough, unless you're new to the genre.

    Plus some things were badly designed. Since the power cells disappeared when you got them, there was no way to replay previous parts of the game. You didn't have much air-control for Jak, and the double jump didn't change direction. You could even remove the obstacles from the obstacle courses by exploiting the save-points.

    In the end J&D's simplicity bored me pretty quickly, with no fucking platform puzles it becomes a very repititive experience etc.

    "There was certainly a chorus of allegedly 1337 gamers after Jak & Daxter came out two years ago. Some grudgingly admitted it was the best platformer ever (and it was, unbelievers), but usually followed up with bile relating to its perceived lack of challenge"
    "As if stung into action that it can do a hardcore game, Jason Rubin and co. have created perhaps the most challenging platformer of them all"

    yeah right, it's propably just another crap game for casual gamers.

  • bero #59 8 years ago

    Well, hate to be the guy from the first line but I'm playing the review copy and am at 40 % after 5 hours. I must say it's not too hard at this point. The first one was positively a breeze compared to Super Mario Sunshine which is almost unplayable for it's pixel-perfect jumps. I got all the eggs in arround 15 hours. Each to his own, I asume.

    I'm just writing to say that the game IS great (btw. I liked the the review) and CAN be a quick-fix if You're strong enough to put it down after one mission. I'm not. AND I have other games waiting in line. AND a girlfriend. AND...

  • Killerbee #60 8 years ago

    Fantastic review krudster. The first one was excellent - shame they've obviously felt the need to up the difficulty levels as I never thought there was anything wrong with the original's. Still, I shall definitely be getting this when I've got some time to play it!

  • Oceadge #61 8 years ago

    Have to agree with Seth. I found the original boring too. Might give it another go this weekend to see what all the fuss was about. Maybe it gets better later on in the game?

  • krudster #62 8 years ago

    If Jak & Daxter *bored* you there's really no hope. Maybe take up another hobby. Cribbage maybe? Knitting?

  • Nemesis #63 8 years ago

    I also still don't understand people that feel that just because a game is "easy" it's therefore beneath them. You're missing a good game I tell yah.

  • Oceadge #64 8 years ago

    :)

    I have recently started playing games on Project64 (my own N64 was put back in its box a long time ago). I never finished Banjo-Tooie and never even started Conker's Bad Fur Day (still sealed in it's box) so have started playing both of them. It reminded me how great the N64 really was. I have the three current generation consoles but find myself wanting to play N64 games more than any new games.

    So, Jak and Daxter, in my opinion, doesn't come close to: Banjo Kazooie, Banjo Tooie, Donkey Kong 64 or Super Mario 64 (or Sunshine for that matter).

  • BartonFink #65 8 years ago

    Have to agree with krudster, get another hobby Oceadge.

  • Oceadge #66 8 years ago

    It's not that I found it too easy, it just didn't provide any kind of incentive for me to continue playing it (like those N64 games I mentioned did - especially Rare's platformers). I will be trying it again though!

    /Looks up the rules of Cribbage, just in case!

  • Seth. #67 8 years ago

    "If Jak & Daxter *bored* you there's really no hope. Maybe take up another hobby. Cribbage maybe? Knitting? "

    imho, and unless you consider knitting to be more exciting than games, this doesn't make sense krudster.
    There are some great, often underrated, action/platform games and in comparison to them J&D is definitely boring, again in my opinion

  • krudster #68 8 years ago

    I can understand people having preference for other games, after all there's a shed load of great ones over the years, but rubbishing J&D is akin to madness.
    Here's your nose, here's a knife...!

  • renzo #69 8 years ago

    renzo : "To solve the problem, just give every game an 8. Nobody ever complains about an 8. :)"
    m0th : "*ahem* :
    http://www.eurogamer.net/article.php?article_id=2628&quo t;
    gizmo : "lol, beat me to it!"
    krudster : "big big lol!"

    um... did the three of you miss my smiley completely? Shame on you... making fun of me like that... and I wasn't even here to defend myself... :|

  • krudster #70 8 years ago

    Heh, you're right, we did miss the irony!

  • Singularity #71 8 years ago

    Mmm, can't wait. Considering buying the first one again in the meantime...

  • krudster #72 8 years ago

    Update: it seems Sony has toned down the difficulty at the last minute. The promos we've all just recieved appear to be far easier than the September build we have.

    This also happened on The Getaway, which was utterly rock hard in the review build, only allowing you to recover about a quarter of your health. I couldn't believe it when I played the final version and found that out.

    Oh well, it's long, even if it isn't as rock hard as I make out.

  • inpHilltr8r #73 8 years ago

    "Once you've roared around the city in the last ring race, or played any of the stadium challenges, try saying with a straight face that this has frame rate issues!"

    It has framerate issues, and yes, I have the final US release version here on my desk (although I will admit, after two nights play, I'm only 30% through). It doesn't drop to 30, but it does drop below 60. It does this by not syncing to the vblank, and letting the screen tear. Can you really not see that?

    It's a great game, and an amazing technical achievement, but it does overreach itself. To say it doesn't have framerate issues is being either blind, or stupid.

    Product ID: SCUS 97265
    Disk ID: PDSS-007235A1 2
    Edited by 1 at 09/10/03 @ 21:18

  • Singularity #74 8 years ago

    Product ID: SCUS 97265
    Disk ID: PDSS-007235A1 2

    OooOOOooo!

    :)

  • krudster #75 8 years ago

    Sure, you can see the visual tear on vsync, but the actual *speed* never flinches at any point. There's no stuttering or slowdown to speak of -it just depends on how pedantic you want to be when discussing frame rate drop.

  • renzo #76 8 years ago

    "Update: it seems Sony has toned down the difficulty at the last minute. The promos we've all just recieved appear to be far easier than the September build we have."

    I'll take that as good news. My gaming sk1llz aren't exactly ninja-like.

  • speedjack #77 8 years ago

    Krudster - sorry to be picky here but just how big a difference has the change in difficulty made - is it now a better game ?

    If its now comparable to the first one or Ratchet & Clank (from a challenge point of view), then I'll buy... But if its now 'you-have-to-play-each-mission-14-times-before-you'll-beat-i t' challenging, then frankly I'm still not interested.

    I too lack the '5UpA mAd 5KiLls'

    *ahem*
    Edited by 1 at 10/10/03 @ 12:20

  • krudster #78 8 years ago

    I think it's only certain nips and tucks that have changed. For one thing, my review copy was quite buggy, making some levels a pain to complete (e.g. you bounced infinitely on lava, meaning a level restart). The first boss, for example, was practically impossible on the preview build. Tom waltzed past it quickly. He's already broken a joypad tho, in sheer frustration at some evil/badly designed levels (take your pick), so it can't be that much easier.

  • krudster #79 8 years ago

    Quibbling about a Vsync tear is taking pedantry to new heights. Seriously, get over it. It's a gorgeous, rock solid looking game with every feature support under the sun.

  • inpHilltr8r #80 8 years ago

    "There's no stuttering or slowdown to speak of -it just depends on how pedantic you want to be when discussing frame rate drop."

    Yeah, I guess it depends on how hard you're looking...;)

    There are a couple of other things I could bitch about (LOD popping on vehicles), but it's a very ambitious game, and 98% of the time it pulls it off flawlessly. That it has a couple of graphical flaws really doesn't detract from the game. I mean, if you take a hard look at GTA...

    Was the review copy really harder? Eeesh, I must be getting old.

  • krudster #81 8 years ago

    Well, they're more frustrations and warnings than real negatives. Half the time the game's difficult missions are pretty playable *once* you know the solution. It's just that sometimes the solution can be hard to find - it's a case of learning where enemies spawn, getting used to the controls and being patient.

    And as for the reference to Blinx, that blatantly a joke, right?!

  • Soul_quake #82 8 years ago

    All I can say is that while I don't play a lot of platformers, I am really looking forward to this. Oh yeah on an interesting note just checked my inbox - I preordered PES 3 and it has been posted already! oh my gosh can't wait!

    /reads first line

    Um, well not matter how great I just can't think how I am going to fit in the time to play this! PES 3..... *sigh*


  • pjmaybe #83 8 years ago

    I purposely avoided the first one like the plague but since playing the demo of this, I'll definitely be getting it...it's everything the latest batch of PS2 games should be...gorgeous to look at and play, smooth as kylie's inner thigh and above all it's addictive. And that's just based on the demo. Bugger that it times out without warning though...!

    Peej

  • killerbob #84 8 years ago

    gamespot 9.1
    eurogamer 9/10
    ign 9.5

    enough evidence for ya?

  • IronGiant #85 8 years ago

    Why go on about framerates, i cant remember people slating Halo for only running at 30fps and slowing down when things got hectic..
    Most sites/reviewers are heaping praise on the game but there will always be those that feel the need to be different, maybe it's a love it or hate it type of game.. great, i know i'll love it.

  • deadlock #86 8 years ago

    Edge gave it 7/10, which is good enough for me. So I pre-ordered it. First game I ever pre-ordered.Now, if I could just get my copy of Jak & Daxter back, I'll be able to finish it and see this spectacular ending that everyone's told me about...
    Edited by 1 at 15/10/03 @ 21:16

  • Fizzy #87 8 years ago

    I havent played a platformer since Sonic 3 on the Genesis!!!
    But something about this game appeals to me, Ive just ordered it!

  • Isere #88 8 years ago

    Is this for adult gamers too because i really hated SLY COOPER AND THE THIEVIOUS RACOONUS which got nice reviews.
    loved medal of honour: allied assault, noone lives forever (both), mafia, max payne, hitman (both) .

  • pygalgia #89 8 years ago

    Hi,

    I bought Jak II today. dont get met wrong I really love the game, but:
    I really can't believe how bad the stuttering/vsync tear/jerkiness is!! I do not understand Naughty Dog for 'accepting' this level of crappy graphics display. It's so bad it's almost unplayable at times!! It's far worse the an occasional hickup or vsync glitch!

    I get it in the city all the time an in most of te other levels, only in 'thight' areas like in the sewers it's ok.. most of the time..

    I tried both 50 and 60Hz. 50Hz is usually a bit better (but sill really bad!). Is my PS2 f*cked/too old? I never got any of this tearing crap in J&D1 or any other game for that matter.

    Any Ideas? / Similar experiences?

    thanks.
    Edited by 1 at 17/10/03 @ 10:58

  • jaa #90 8 years ago

    smooth as kylie's inner thigh

    Ooooooooo, nice image...


    Personal experience, Peej?

  • Singularity #91 8 years ago

    Well, three hours in now.

    You hear that sound? That's Jak II rockin' the Kasbah.

    Casbah.

    Cazbah? Ahh, bollocks. It's really great, though.

  • tiddles #92 8 years ago

    Well, I'm about 20% in now, so here are my impressions...

    Overall, it's very impressive, and addictive to boot. The city is genuinely stunningly beautiful - rich, colourful and varied. The platforming gameplay is pure Jak & Daxter - the difficulty in the retail version seems about spot on, although I was one of those who found the original a bit too easy, and the scarcity of checkpoints in some areas means a lot of repetitive replaying of areas. Having said that, it's always possible to improve your skills in each particular area, so it hasn't got too frustrating just yet.

    The weapons were an area that worried me before the game's release, as I personally thought Ratchet and Clank was pretty but dull. However, Jak II's combat is much meatier, with a satisfying shooter feel that was completely lacking in R&C (imo). Also nice is the way in which Jak's punches and spins don't become irrelevant once you get guns, but rather augment your weaponry, giving rise to interesting combo opportunities. It's a carefully balanced system (so far), which reminded me of Maximo in some ways.

    Sadly it's not a perfect game, though. The major problem with the graphics is the tearing mentioned in several posts above. It is significant, and it is throughout the game. Basically, as some have already mentioned, it occurs whenever the game would normally drop frames - instead of slowing down, the game misses the v-sync (usually when panning left or right), meaning that some sections of the screen appear to move before others. It's a real pity - when you see it, it's really noticeable, and destroys the lush effect that the beautiful graphics would otherwise create. Fortunately, the more things are going on onscreen the less you tend to notice it - thus in big fights and chases it rarely catches your eye, situations where frame-drop would have really been apparent. The times you see it most are when you pause to look around and admire the scenery, which is sad.

    The hover cars are not as fun to fly as they should be, either. Their physics are just too spongy, and you really feel the lack of an airbrake, which would allow to whip round corners Wipeout style. It's still possible to become quite adept at zipping round the city, but it's all more laborious than it should be - another pity considering all the visual splendour on display.

    So, overall? It has problems that prevent it being a masterpiece, but nothing that severely hinders the fun - so far it's extremely enjoyable, and definitely comes recommended.

    8/10

  • krudster #93 8 years ago

    I was playing on progressive scan and it never really even once felt like an issue for me. It's not a case of something 'slipping by', I played this for about 30 odd hours, so you'd have thought I might have noticed.
    The fact is I saw some slight visual tear on the vsync but nothing that made any difference to my enjoyment of the game.

  • tiddles #94 8 years ago

    There do seem to be reports that the visual problems vary in severity depending on the mode (50/60hz, prog scan vs. old style or whatever the technical term is - "reactionary scan"?). Certainly I found the problem was significantly worse on 60Hz than on 50 - yaay for our good old European/Antipodean slower-but-more-detailed standards! Maybe they should have just slapped a sticker on it saying "optimised for progressive scan"....

    Does this mean now you've got a plasma screen you'll have to review everything twice just to be sure? ;)

  • Olf #95 8 years ago

    I went on this forum to see if something was wrong with my PS2 'cause I get the vsync problems all the time. I couldn't belive seeing people say "it's not a problem, you don't notice it"...

    Of course you notice it! It happens 5-10 times per minute, so it's like all the time. If it was just every now and then when there's much happening it would be ok, but it's not.

    Actually it's even happening all the time in the opening sequence, which I think is extremely strange. Wouldn't Naughty Dog want to "hide" this problem? Instead it happens all the time in the 15 sec-sequence saying "Sony presents... a naughty dog production... JAK II".

    The graphics is really beautiful, but there really is a BIG vsync prob. It's not just me being picky or difficult.

  • tiddles #96 8 years ago

    Interestingly, there's even some talk on forums that the tearing problem only affects older versions of the PS2 - can anyone confirm or deny this?

  • pygalgia #97 8 years ago

    "Interestingly, there's even some talk on forums that the tearing problem only affects older versions of the PS2 - can anyone confirm or deny this?"

    I can: It's terrible on both old & new. I have a very old ps2. Any I just _had_ to know if a newer one was better so I bought a me a nice silver edition saturday. But it's exctly the same, no difference whatsoever!

    I wonder if Naughty Dog ever played ths game on a real ps2, instead of just some developper kit thingy running on top spec PC's.

    I too can make ground breaking graphics on a ps2. Unfortunately it just runs @ 10Fps. duh.

    And anyone saying that it's no drop in the framerate is wrong. Because that exactly what it is. the ps2 just can't handle all the stuff ND throws at it.

    Could we sue sony/ND about this? :) I'd rather have a litte less detail and a steady display instead of this.

    We can only pray that ratchet & clank 2 is keeping the poly's down and the framerate up!

  • Singularity #98 8 years ago

    So there's a bit of a visual problem - it still doesn't change the fact that the game is cool like Fonzie.

  • Big-Swiss #99 8 years ago

    Hey Kudster

    You seem to be the guy, that is in charge here, or to put it in the right way, your judgement seems to be pretty fair.

    Is there a new DEVIL MAY CRY in development?
    and in the second one , how the hell do you do that part with the woman, where that stupid rock fires at you.

    I was a little disapointed, the first one was hard, the second one, was pretty easy! (well at least the Dante part was too easy)

    so yea, hope you read this, and let me know

  • beep #100 8 years ago

    Quibbling about a Vsync tear is taking pedantry to new heights. Seriously, get over it. It's a gorgeous, rock solid looking game with every feature support under the sun.

    Whilst I generally agree that the v-sync problem is not that big a deal, I certrainly wouldn't call a game "rock solid looking" when such issues do exist. Jak & Daxter seemed to be far more "rock solid" than the sequel.

    Jak II is still the most graphically advanced game I've seen on PS2 so far, though. It puts most Xbox and Gamecube games to shame even.