Guild Wars Comments by Kieron Gillen

Oh you...

I've gone off PC games because PCs smell (the horrible copy protection thing with Trackmania Sunrise was the final straw), but that review...

No, I've already ordered Forza this week, I've just got back into Halo 2 online and I have a stack of PS2 RPGs to get through. Well, two. But they're probably long ones.

I will resist.

Yeah, bullet points suck. Good review, though. Me likee the no subscribee fee very muchee

Bullet points are okay, to a certain extent. Do not use them as the only means to convey your literary magic :)

This game, I will buy! Probably. Some day. I wish I had money...

Had a lot of fun playing this over the weekend. I can't offer any MMORPG comparisons not having played any. But for single pla comparisons, it is a kind of chimeric love child of Morrowind, Diablo and NWN. The graphics being reminiscent of MW, the gameplay being similar to Diablo and the co-op nature being similar to NWN. And most important of all, once you get away from the chattering classes in the towns, it has a real atmosphere about it which removes the feeling of anything being a chore. Without being a game designer or reviewer, It feels to me that they have removed a lot of the unnecessary fussiness and complexity about this game without losing the breadth or depth. And that is a bit of an achievement IMHO.

In all honesty then how does this compare to WoW? I absolutely loved it when I played the Beta but had absolutely no free time at all to carry on with the retail version. My course finishes in a couple of months so I'll probably be looking at getting into another MMORPG... and the fact that this one doesn't have a monthly fee is a huge bonus (not that I'd object to spending £8~ p/m on WoW, it's still money well spent)

"Not to be fun, but to be addicting"

Damn right. I'm glad I'm not the only one who feels this way. Pavlovian hack jobs, most MMOs are. Blame their business model: Attract the OCD demographic, and you can fuel your company for a year. But actually make the core mechanic enjoyable? Pff. Why would you want to do that?

For once, I agree totally with a eurogamer review...

If I have to underline one point of this review it would be: "In other words, it's the Fantasy Online RPG where actual skill and intelligence matters more than mere persistence."

Personally, I don't compare gw it wow, but more to hl2, has the "feeling" I get when playing corresponds more to hl2, despise the genre difference.

I can speak for hours about tactics deepness or the fact that there is so plenty you can do you never get bored, but you have to experience it for yourself. Sure wow interface is slightly better, lineage 2 graphics slightly better, HL2 scenario slightly more original, but you get 95% of each of them, plus something more.

Imo, this game is a milestone, like there is one each 2-3 years.

It's like PSO never happened :)

This game sounds great, though, and this review is only making me want it more. Nice work, and honestly who cares about bullet points? They get the point across.

If you want to solve the language problem, just just your default server to the US in char select options.

The PVE isnt the best, but the PVP has kept me playing PVE just to unlock new skills and items to build my ready made level 20s. The sheer amount of skills, and special add on's for weps and armour you can have is superb.

Good one Kieron, thanks for telling it like it is. Guild Wars does attempt to break the mould of MMO's, and your comment regarding the design of WoW and it's forebears is true. I bless the creators of GW for making a MMO that doesn't want to suck at the teat of my credit card like starved child.

This game is ( imo ) loads better than WoW. The problem with MMOGs is the levelling grind, even if WoW hides it better than most it's still about grinding. Go here, kill this, get 200xp, progress 0.01% towards next level. Great, if I do that another 500 times I get to do it again at the next level. W00t !

GW is all about the story, if I don't want to group with idiot humans I don't have to as the AI is more than passable. If I do then the player base seems very friendly. Missions are the key to the game, KG is correct - it's closer to NWN than EQ2 / DAOC / WoW.

Game of the year so far for me as well - it's a work of genius.

Cheers Kieron, I was waiting for your take on things.

I've got the game here, but well, WoW's got its dirty hands all over me, so I'll now try and shrug them off and give Guild Wars a real seeing to.

I bet the expansions will be "optional" as in "I really don't need more areas and more quests and SooperSword +15 and increased level cap and whatnot". People will buy them - after all, they do for Everquest, which has a monthly fee.

As for PSO: PC version is in beta, looks and plays exactly like the Dreamcast and Gamecube original(s). Covers Ep. I and II of course, since Ep. III was that card-battle thingy.

w00t a 9/10! i got this game 4 days ago and i've been playing it ever since. it's rather addictive! so far it's better than my experience of WoW (played the beta for 2 weeks). there's a lot less grinding (you get most experience from completing quests not killing hundreds of monsters) and there's less travelling. it does have some flaws though but not many. my main annoyance is that in the post-searing ascalon it's like a maze and getting from point A to point B isn't ever as simple as you thought. but once you discover more of the map it becomes easier to navigate. anyway, i highly recommend the game, and can honestly say that it's definately on par with the best online RPGs including WoW (although you can't really compare because WoW is a MMORPG and guild wars is CORPG (cooperative online RPG).

Since I swiftly realised that it was going to be almost 3000 words, I thought some structure was needed. Lists are an easy way to keep people's attention, and I quite fancied a concept review.

You should feel lucky. I was considering writing it in the form of a Socratic Dialogue.

KG

I got this last week and it's definitely my favourite game of the moment. The graphics and quest-based gameplay combine to make it very immersive. It never feels like you're grinding out XP and the quests themselves are nice and varied. I haven't played the PvP part of the game yet, but the skill selection (kind of like the card battle strategies of some Japanese games) is a great touch that is required in PvE too.

In contrast to the reviewer, I found most people I quested with to be friendly, especially if you make an effort to try to speak their language in the European areas. A "guten tag" or "merci bien" goes a long way just like on holiday :)

I got this for a bargain 17.99 from Play and it's already paid for itself in the amount of fun I've gotten out of it. Can't wait for the expansion packs.

I'm in such a quandry now! I'm WoW-ing at the moment, and enjoying it very much, but this just looks sooooo pretty! Plus (unsociable as I am) I like the idea of being able to bugger off on my own into an instance. What should I do......?

Awesome review. Completely agree with you kieron. So many mmorpgs are about hitting beasts for months until you reach the level cap. Completely pointless time wasting experience. With a subscription fee too.
Games like Guild Wars should be the way forward.

Stickman: i'd recommend the game to anyone and everyone (and do). It's got something for everyone and theres not much to lose after you've got the box. Certain UK retailers were selling it for 18 pounds last i heard.

I've been pondering this for a while, merely because of the no-subs deal. Genius, and now more MORPGs will follow, surely? Seems that way to me.

Anyways, this review just sold it to me. Nice one Kieron... a physics student can appreciate bullet points ;)

Now I just need to get my smattering of exams over with and buy the bugger. To think I got Baten Kaitos over this...

stickman, get the game you won't be disappointed. many things are better than WoW and the things that aren't better you don't really care about. anyway, back to bashing charr with my 17-25 hammer :D

Dod damn it, Kieron, you made me finish the jaffa cakes i'd been saving! Ah well, game looks interesting... but certainly can't buy as fighting a game addiction at the mo and got finals in a few weeks. Also shouldn't really be on eurogamer at the mo either. Damn you all.

Wasp:"I'm sure it's more flexible in this game, but ultimately, it's hardly the point."

Actually, that really is.

I'll agree I'm simplifying a little, but not as much as you seem to believe.

KG

The game is brilliant, it really is. I've had it for about a couple weeks or so now (I'm from the colonies, by the way) and it's yet to get boring at all. Everything in the article is spot on. My only qualm is with the comment "...in the hubs they're generally an unfriendly bunch."

It was that way for a bit, but once you level and go on to more difficult areas and progress in time, the l33t speak and n00b comments are kept to a minimum and the community really helps you out if you need it. When I was in need of help, there was a higher level player that helped a group of us newbies in some difficult quests, just out of the goodness of his/her heart. In turn, I spent 3 hours yesterday helping a group of lower level players get through some difficult quests.

In short: It's good.

Ok, just ordered it, you got me.

However, and slightly off topic, I note another dig about the Neocron community in your review. When was the last time you logged on there and talked to us? Our community was hurt recently by PCZone's criticism, and I'd like to know what you are basing that on.

I think the PSO comment made by Teeth, was meant to highlight the fact that Guild Wars hasn't really done anything radical. It's adopted the PSO model of communal player hubs where players meet up, and instanced party zones where players take a team of 4 (in PSO) or 4,6,or 8 in GW, and play privately. The radical bit NCSoft has done with GW is only ask for the box price. Even PSO charged for a Hunters license (per month payment) to play.

I wouldn't be quick to compare GW with other MMORPG's simply because GW isn't one. Its an party based instanced gaming zone, like a single player game doing co-op multi-play. It is also based around skill sets and their selection on loadout for a mission. Rather than the normal MMORPG mechanism of awarding time spent and levels gained. GW is all about character build and tweaking and evolving that as you play through it. WoW is about long term character building, bit by bit. WoW has character specialisation in its talents, but its much more geared towards long term investment, GW is more geared towards gaining novel skills and putting them together in a single character build. Once you set your WoW talents theyre like that for the rest of the duration (unless you pay large sums of money to do a total respec), whereas GW allows you to fine tune your skills and their disciplines. They're two completely different online RPG's. Aiming for different crowds I would imagine, although there is some cross-over. Their PvP play will be different too, but no doubt people will compare the two over and over again.

I actually loathe MMORPGs. CoH is the best of the bunch (for me), but it still subscribes to many of the normal silly things in the genre.

Guild Wars has a lot of my sympathies. That they have actual plots, and cutscenes that make you FEEL like you accomplished something, and they're not meant to be pure timesinks...that is admirable, while their competition puts out twenty soon-to-fail identical products.

It's a better kind of MMORPG, since it feels like a single-player game you can play with just your friends.

That said, wolves, worms and other such wildlife in it still drop swords and arrows and gold coins...which is almost equal to WoW's wolves dropping chain leggings. This is definitely an aspect I would love to see gone. But at least they don't drop locked and trapped chests (hello, EQ2).

Great review Kieron. Once upon a blue moon I said something along the lines of ...greater vidgame journalism being seen, but still competent - about yours - well this was one fine review, and I retract my words. Long, meaty (ugh), and bullets! Gotta love bullets!

And again - to you fops who still play that sad, sad, WoW: THIS is the game from the TRUE Blizzard crew, these guys left Blizzard, and were instrumental in making the DIABLO.

And please - yes I badmouthed WoW. Just leave it, no need to attack this. You have your saccharine overload bliss to yourselves.

Now Guild Wars isn't a true MMORPG (whatever that is) but there's lots to like here indeed. Been betaplaying for several weekends and a preorder dude too, and still find myself coming back.

Good one Kieron!

does guild wars have a monthly subscription fee???

does guild wars have a monthly subscription fee???

Yes, yes it does.

Just give me your credit card number and I'll arrange everything for you!



(alternatively, read the review)

" does guild wars have a monthly subscription fee???"

Please say you're joking, or the next review has a "READ THIS BIT" written in flashing font.

KG

Hmmm, not sure how anybody can say Guild Wars is better than World of Warcraft. but its certainly a good game in its own right. Also bullet points are a bit lame, if i wanted short and sweet i'd read the back of the box.

Pirotic: Similarly, I'm not sure how anybody can say a 3000 word review can ever be described as short and sweet. Though If it makes you feel better, just read the bits which are mini-essays, as that's still longer what I'm actually *meant* to write for each of these reviews.

KG

There is a downside not really touched upon in this review of the instances being specifucally disgined and scripted - whereas, say, after a night of questing in World of Warcraft you may be full of 'omfg did you see that?' tales of memorable things happening - indeed, all you need to do is check the World of Warcraft thread to see all kinds of stories about people's adventures in Azeroth.
In Guild Wars, this factor doesn't and can't come into play, for the simple reason of everything being so 'on rails'. Yeah, that bit where you got rid of all the enemies by firing a trebuchet may be cool, but everyone else to have ever played that level will have used the same tactic as you. It all just feels a little contrived, a little fake, whereas in WoW you can actually be proud of whatever ingeneous solutions you have had to problems, in Guild Wars that just isnt the case, the developers have already decided what your solutions will be.

However, still a brilliant game, just wanted to make the point that everything being 'designed for you' isn't always better than having a quest, a world, and some randomly spawning monsters.
Edit: looks like I need to brush up on my french :P

Good review - got the game a week ago, and even though I haven't progressed very far yet, I pretty much came to similar conclusions.

The only thing I didn't quite like was the partitioning of the hub zones into districts. Adventuring would be easier and more immersive if the hubs were large enough to accomodate for all online players simultaneously. As it is, it can look a little drab and lonely even in the larger cities. Bartering would be improved as well.

But anyway, cool game. Really pretty, too. A buddy of mine said: "Until now, I'd thought that 'MMO' equals 'ugly'. This is effin' great!"

Excellent review Kieron... will be getting this after my exams! :P
Incidentally, do you know if I ever got a mention in PCG for pointing you in the direction of that song "King of Spain"? If so, any chance you know which issue it was. What a (potential) claim to fame!

"Once I was the King of Spain...
...Now I eat humble pie!"

"Standing patiently in a queue of twenty adventures, all waiting their turn to kill a monster that spawns once every few minutes, which everyone needs to complete a given quest"

sounds like the annabel chong gangbang vid?

great review. I read the surpisingly critical IGN review (despite the high score) the other day and thought i was going nuts. that reviewer was complaining about missing features that if present would in my opinion detract from fun gaming (e.g. the obsession about accessing all 50 trillion spells at once and items/auctions). this game is the first to tempt me into trying an mmorpg.

O-Fox: Fair comments, which I wouldn't take too much issue with. While I'd argue that you *do* see some fun stuff due to multi-player interactions, it's obviously more to do with the PvP side and inter-party stuff (in fact, my favourite online moment this year happened trying to do a mission in Guild Wars with just one friend. We were hysterical with laughter in our increasingly obscure attempts to defeat a seemingly impossible foe), but it doesn't have the pure randomness of a more classical MMO. That said, it also doesn't have the absolute depths of an online experience either. You might view the game as a filter, which removes both the very top end and the entire bottom end of the MMO experience. While I wouldn't want all games to be Guild Wars, for me the Best Stuff happens so irregularly I'm fine with GW's set up.

spillz: The MMO as Gang-bang/Bukkake. It's an interesting metaphor, though one I don't think I quite dare use. And I concur on the criticism you reference. Haven't read the review, but strikes me like demanding that Unreal Tournament feature WWII Russian fighter planes because they're really great in IL-2.

KG

O-Fox: Fair comment, there are both advantages and disadvantages in heavily scripted adventures. But, the PvE side to Guild Wars really is quite different to the PvE side of WoW, and I wouldn't want to use them as a comparison. GW presents a storied adventure, that is heavily scripted, that is part of its beauty, it can do things that a single player game can do. Scripted encounters, novel mission objectives and such like. WoW has to cater for a different play mechanism, whereby the quests are quite straight forward, not reliant on heavily scripted personal NPC interactions etc. WoW's instanced dungeons are the nearest it gets to a GW style gameplay. But WoW only does this very sparingly. GW uses ONLY that mechanism. The freeform ingenuity shown in tackling some confrontations in WoW is not lost in GW, just relies heavily on a different mechanism, in GW you have to use your skillset picked before the adventure, you can come up with some novel and ingenious ways to dispatch the enemy in GW too. But its because of the differences that make these two games incomparable IMHO. They are targetted at different audiences almost. NCSoft used the "MMORPG without a monthly subscription" gimmick to gain sales early on. But now with people making direct comparisons against WoW, they have shirked the fact that they ever described GW as a MMORPG. I like both GW and WoW, and I play them both regularly, they both fulfill certain niche criteria in my gaming agenda. They almost complement each other.

well im sorry i didnt read the review and oh my credit card number is well youd like to know that wouldnt you

Gah! Ignored by teh Kieron.

*heartbroken*

Asphalt: Misread what you wrote. In short: No idea. Don't really obsess over Gamer's letterspages as I used to after I left.

KG

Well, it was actually on the forum.
Oh well 8) Thanks anyway.
Did I mention it was a great review? :D

Firstly: I liked the bullet point review, nice bite sized chunks that were easy to digest.

Guild Wars is great too.
Good points:
- Fantastic graphics that run well even on a medium spec system.
- No monthly fee.
- Complete feeling world with a storyline (reminds me a little of Zelda.)
- Great class system, you can combine nearly everything.

Bad Points:
- Very restrictive (no jumping, going over steep environment and NPC's and monsters have the worst clipping plane ever: a gigantic forcefield around them it seems.)
- The grouping options are terrible, the only way is to be in a town and yell out that your looking for a group.
- Multi-lingual European districts suck a large German sausage. Either create English speaking only districts or let me join the US ones.

Nikells: I haven't tried it myself, but I believe you CAN join any district you want. Isn't there a "International Zones" bar at the bottom of the region-jump tool bar?

KG

Actually yes I apologise I jumped the gun there, just found out you can swap to the American districts in the account options menu.

The international districts were never very busy though.

Kieron,

I love you - I've only just read the review and here I am telling everybody I know its more like NWN than WoW/EQ and your the first review I've read that says that!

I'm not mad..

just noticed Clive Dunn agrees with you/me :)

Well i'm not sure that i like the bullet-pointed review...hmm seems a number ppl above agree. Well i intend to buy this game because to be honest with you WoW has lost the plot it seems. From a WoW player perspective and a full time worker, i do not have the energy to play another character-get to lv 20 - then grind- then to lv 45- then grind - then to lv 60 - then grind again for items that were only mean't for the hardcore 16+ hours a day players. No thank you! There is little reward/ per play time... there is a lot of greed. Guild wars have a cap of lv 20...exactly the level in WoW that things became less fun and more like hard work.. Guild wars offer dual-class players and flexibility...well WoW offers a system, once you've changed your mind twice, flexibility costs you a lot of Gold - so back to grinding again! Me and a friend of mine have been looking for a MORPG like this...sold!