Grand Theft Auto 3 Comments by Gestalt

That depends on if you want to play it for

a) free
b) £20

;)

That 98 lite link was very interesting - cheers for that. Whatever you do though don't make the mistake I made of typing in 98lite.com otherwise you'll get a site that Errol would probably recommend ;-)

Oh yeah and as for the latest Nvidia drivers... don't even get me started. They're really quite bad - I had something like a 30-50% frame rate drop on most of my games compared to 21.83 so I went right back to them.

point being, i dont really want to buy pc games anymore, ESPECIALLY if they are gonna run shite on my pc...

but i wouldnt mind playing this game. and 19.99 seems good value to me for a "new" game.

so dya think im gonna get annoying frame rates with that pc setup?

"Whatever you do though don't make the mistake I made of typing in 98lite.com "

not as bad as the experts exchange URL. I sent an email out not giving the full address to a group of senior managers at my last job. Most of them ended up at some "expert sex change" site instead.

"they do smooth out once all the textures are in memory"

I think that's maybe the problem - it just hasn't been optimised for the PC, so unless you have enough texture memory on your graphics card the game keeps thrashing your hard drive and trying to shuffle all the textures back and forth between graphics card and system memory. The faster you drive, the faster it has to load textures, and the choppier it gets.

Given that the PS2 isn't exactly renowned for having a huge reservoir of RAM, this isn't very impressive.

'you'll get a site that Errol would probably recommend'

Heh.

Yay Errol - thought that might get you to pop your head up... or should I rephrase that?

'pop your head up'

Now thats just disgusting.

Correct if I'm wrong, GTA3 was built with Renderware. How does Renderware work? Do you create a game for a platform, like PS2, or is it PC based?

Basically, they should have included multiplayer. This would have been game of the decade with a full suite of mulitplayer options.

How does Renderware work?

If I understand correctly it's a middleware graphics library. Basically a standard API that you can use on a number of machines so that you don't need to rewrite your graphics code when you port to another platform. A bit like Direct-X, but for machines rather than graphics cards.

This reminds me though - I really need to get my PS2 copy back off my mate. He's had it for a couple of months now. Especially as I've now come badly unstuck in Final Fantasy X with that bloody Seymour bloke - 35 hours in and I can't beat him for love nor money. Grrr.

I haven't had problems with the game's speed on my more-than-a-year old Duron 800 with a less-than-64-MB GF2 MX. I had to lower the resolution to 640x480 when I arrived at Staunton Island, and I turned off the trails both because of speed and because I thought they looked a bit weird.
None of my friends had any real problems with the speed, all of them running GF2 MX on CPUs with less than 1Ghz. The only one who did have a problem was one with a relatively high end graphics card, who didn't bother to download the MS Windows XP Hotfix.
There are some issues, but I don't know how widespread they are, and I don't think it's valid to say that you're more likely to be affected if you've got an old graphics card. It seems to be quite random.

Morrowind is awesome BTW, kept me playing even longer than GTA3, and I haven't had any problems with it either. Well, it did crash on me every once in a while, like every 5 or 6 hours, but I always had a quicksave that was 3 minutes back, I suppose that's the game telling me I shouldn't spent more then 6 hours consecutively playing Morrowind. Apart from that, it's bloddy brilliant, I usually hate first-person RPGs, but this one must be the best CRPG since Baldur's Gate, so it kept me playing for about 50 hours.

Can't understand how anyone can play GTA3 for 6 months, the only game I played for that long was Half-Life, and that only because it was an online multiplayer game. There is just no single player game that can hold my attention that long. I think I played GTA3 for about 40 hours so far, and I doubt I'll spent another 40 in it, even though I agree with the review in that it is an awesome game.

Excuse my ignorance, but what's Morrowind?

I had to lower the resolution to 640x480

so to get a decent speed u have to do this? on a 1gighz with a gf2mx ? hmmm not sure i can be bothered with that tbh..

Can't understand how anyone can play GTA3 for 6 months
Obviously not continuously but if I'm feeling up for a bit of criminal fun I can easily waste an hour or two causing havoc in Liberty City. I'm not sure I'll ever get bored with long chases all over the city with the cops.

Excuse my ignorance, but what's Morrowind?
First person solo RPG that comes out tomorrow in Europe. Morrowind's home page give more details.

1 Ghz? No, on a Duron 800 with a GeForce 2 MX 32MB and 256 MB of RAM, in other words, on a computer that was very low end 18 months ago. :)

Aka, Morrowind is The Elder Scrolls III, ie the follow-up to the infamous RPG Daggerfall. Rumours about it being anywhere as buggy as TES2 are quite invalid, though, and people who played both games (I haven't) routinely roll on the floor laughing when they hear this.

Ah another thing on Morrowind, re: the detailed in-door scenes. I could imagine they did this because you have (optionally) extremely long draw distances outside, while inside the draw distance is necessarily very short, no matter how high you set it. I could imagine that, with the drawing distance set to the upper half of the slider, you'd have about the same performance inside and outside.
Anyway, I never noticed the difference in performace interior and exterior, TBH. It looked spectacular, anyway, easily the best-looking terrain I've ever seen in a game.

there aint that much differnce between 800 - 1gighz thats all i was saying (ie i have 1g)

Think i'll have a go on my brothers ps2 and see if i think its worth the outlay. specially as im getting overwhelmed by games atm.

SSXT xbox... Jedi starfighter Xbox..... Marioland.....GBA

im really looking forward to Turok as well :)

there aint that much differnce between 800 - 1gighz thats all i was saying (ie i have 1g)

Depends if your 1gig is a Duron or not. There is fair performance difference betwen an Athlon and a Duron, due to the cache size and FSB differences between the CPUs.

The difference between Duron and Athlon is usually averaged at like 10%, depending on the application, of course. A TB 1Ghz would be about 30% faster than my meager Duron, a bit less if I run it at 133Mhz x6 instead of 100Mhz x8. Oh well. :)

A bit like Direct-X, but for machines rather than graphics cards.

Direct X is the collection. Direct 3D is the graphics API. Bearing mind D3D is proprietory OpenGL would be a better comparison.

Which patch is this? If it's a GTA3 patch of .. ahem .. dubious legality, I've heard that they can interfere with the save game system.

"GeForce patch" sounds like he's talking about the MS hotfix including the updated d3d8.dll. Never heard of any problems with that.

I think the performance issues must be Geforce based. I'm running a P3 866 512mb RAM (which helps) and a Radeon 64 DDR. It ran very damn well in 1024x768 32 bit with everything maxed except the draw distance (which I set to one or two notches from the top). The only time it slowed down was when it rained/got foggy and the action was getting intense. I switched to 960x720 (still 32 bit and same graphic settings) and it runs perfectly, come rain or shine. I've also only experienced one glitch, which was water polegons breaking through low lying jettis. I haven't seen any other graphical problems (well except for the rain entering the auto dealers on the first island).

As for the game... it is everything I waited for. Fantastic. My only "issues" are gameplay ones:

1) Cars shouldn't immediately burn once they're flipped - pedantic, but still....

2) Multiplayer would be nice

3) Different ways of progress through the game. Maybe I'm wrong here, but I think you have to side with the Italians on the first map to make any progress. With that said, the game isn't very linear anyway.

4) Editing tools... although there was a rumour that a GMax pack would be released.

5) Losing cops. It appears to have changed from GTA2, in which even if you're warrant level was pretty high, you could still lose track of the guys. I'm not suggesting reducing warrant levels above 1 star after a while (because that isn't logical) but I had s shit load of cops after me at one point and made my getaway into the subway (it is kind of stupid that they don't follow you into certain places). When I got to my destination and exited the subway they immediately showed up.... telepathy I think. In addition, I don't see cops arresting, or attempting to, other gang members who start causing havoc. This was one of my favourite tactics in GTA2. Cause a fight, wait for swat to turn up and let them and the gang members kill each other while you make your getaway.

6) Some other review I read made two very good points being that there aren't enough things to buy (more items would increase the reward factor of earning cash) and a point based character progression would add a neat RPG element.

Lastly, I think it is rather amusing how the law tends to commit more murders and cause more damage than you ever could, in their attempt to hunt you down. Even better, they seem to blame you for it. I witness one cop car take out 5 civlians in its bid to get to me and the result was my warrant level going up.

0) It might be related to Nvidia graphics cards, but I know there have been reported slow downs for people running Ati cards, as well. Of course you never know if they're related to the graphics card or sun spots.

1) Well, they don't. If you're flipping a car in a good condition, it takes a while for it to take fire and explode. It's still stupid though, the car shouldn't explode at all, cars don't do that, even if flipped. Not that I tried in RL.

2) GTA 4. It won't be in Vice City. Some people suggested someone would mod it into GTA3, but that's just ridiculous.

3) Yep. Not sure if you can decide between two paths on the second island, at one point you kill Kenji, possibly you can side with the Yakuza there, but I never tried.

4) Editing car properties is very easy, it's a large plaintext file, an editor is already released. Rockstar has been quoted that modding should be easy for anyone who knows how to handle Renderware files, however I read on GTA3Mods.com that it's actually quite difficult since the files are so messy. So, we'll see, but as it is a single player game I don't put my hopes too high when it comes to modding.

5) I also think it's downright annoying that other gangs can pretty much break as many laws as they want without suffering any consequences. Especially when you run around town without any kind of weapon.

1) Well, they don't. If you're flipping a car in a good condition, it takes a while for it to take fire and explode. It's still stupid though, the car shouldn't explode at all, cars don't do that, even if flipped. Not that I tried in RL.

Sorry, that's what I meant. They shouldn't light up at all. Hopefully in the sequel we might even see some "thrown from vehicle" animations.

Especially when you run around town without any kind of weapon.

Another feature that got lost. I remember in the original pulling out a weapon (yes, yes, all laugh :) ) would make civlians run away. Doing it in front of a cop should make you wanted. I'm also missing the bikes, but I gather they'll be in Vice City.

Mod wise, I'm thinking more of maps, than vehicles. Ohh, and should also add that the MP3 feature is really neat (so are the sounds that come with the game... I love Chatterbox FM, especially that vegan with the lisp). Nothing like driving around to some punk.

Ordinarily the MP3 feature would be great, but since the standard radio is so good, I found myself rarely listening to my own stuff. :)

They shouldn't light up at all.
Well being realistic now they wouldn't however the massive chain reactions that can happen when they do more than makes up for the lack of realism! :-)

For everyone having performance problems make sure you have the frame limiter switched on in the video settings, this makes a huge difference to how smooth the game is. Playing around with FRAPS it shows it locks the framerate at 30FPS but without it on even if the FPS is 70+ it will not be smooth. FRAPS is also handy for taking screenshots anytime you want.

Well being realistic now they wouldn't however the massive chain reactions that can happen when they do more than makes up for the lack of realism!

That's actually one thing I miss from the original. In GTA 1 and 2, there'd be chain reactions all the time. Explode one car, and all the other cars waiting behind it at the traffic light go up as well.
One of the best ways to get points in GTA 1 and 2 was getting a bunch of cars near each other, get a wanted level to attract a bunch of cops with their cars and explode one car - all the cops went down with higher points awarded for each consecutive kill.
I guess this is still possible in GTA3, but much much harder to do. I have yet to see more than 3 explosions in a row.

Edit: Another thing I miss is the word "kiiiill freenzyy" which is just way cooler than "rampage", and some guy shouting "WASTED" when you're down. Much less frustrating that way. ;)

I dunno, when it came out for PS2 I was really jealous & couldn't wait to see it on PC, but now it's here, I'm not really that excited about it. Not enough to rush out and buy it. Like Binky, I guess I have too many other games to be getting on with. Also I have a feeling it'll suck gibbon gonads on my old TNT2. Like so many other AAA PC titles I think I'll wait & get it on budget.

I have yet to see more than 3 explosions in a row.
Get the police after you in a big way (2-3 cars), then toss a grenade. They'll all go up and any other cops screaming in afterwards will get caught in the blast and proceed to start to go up too. Oh and in the PC version the amount of bodyparts that explosions cause is rather large too.. :-)

Also I have a feeling it'll suck gibbon gonads on my old TNT2.
It wouldn't work too well on that, if you had something more beefy I'd say rush out and get it. Alternatively you could buy a PS2 and play it on that as I know you luuurve Sony so much.... ;-)

Well being realistic now they wouldn't however the massive chain reactions that can happen when they do more than makes up for the lack of realism! :-)

True, but the sudden lighting up of upside cars is pushing it a tad too far. More importantly I'm then unable to a)tip it over again with another vehicles or b) get some really neat screenshots of huge crashes.

Ordinarily the MP3 feature would be great, but since the standard radio is so good, I found myself rarely listening to my own stuff. :)

It was neat to hear "Grand Theft Auto" again (I think that's the name) - the track from GTA1. Twas a favourite of mine for cruising around.

Something else that just dawned on me, the save game is very cheap. It doesn't cost a penny and you get your car back in mint condition. I'd have liked to have seen a cash requirement.

That's actually one thing I miss from the original. In GTA 1 and 2, there'd be chain reactions all the time. Explode one car, and all the other cars waiting behind it at the traffic light go up as well.

Arhh yes, that was great fun. The "wasted" and "kill frenzy" were also cool.

Oh and in the PC version the amount of bodyparts that explosions cause is rather large too.. :-)

Does that happen on the PS2 version? I was playing the PC one with a mate whose played the PS2 alot and he said he believed he hadn't seen it before, that and the fog.

I'll wait & get it on budget.

Well my version was $20 from Play.com.

Oh, one annoying thing, probably a PS2 heritage, is that the cars around you aren't really saved. Turn around 180° two times, and when you're back where you started the cars you saw originally will be replaced by others.

More importantly I'm then unable to a)tip it over again with another vehicles or b) get some really neat screenshots of huge crashes.

Remember it was originally made for the PS2 having too many objects remaining on screen at once would have completely killed the framerate.

Something else that just dawned on me, the save game is very cheap. It doesn't cost a penny and you get your car back in mint condition. I'd have liked to have seen a cash requirement.
You don't have to save to get the "magic garage elves" to do their job, just put the car in and let the door close, open it again and the car is mint again. Money really has bugger all effect in the game to be honest, getting the secret packages to get free weapons means you never really have to buy them very often (bazookas excepted you need 100 packages for them) so even if it cost money to save it wouldn't really matter much.

Does that happen on the PS2 version? I was playing the PC one with a mate whose played the PS2 alot and he said he believed he hadn't seen it before, that and the fog.
Bodyparts coming off only happen with a cheatcode on the PS2, fog happens in the PS2 version just as often as the PC one.

Arhh... ok, thanks for the tip.

Money really has bugger all effect in the game to be honest, getting the secret packages to get free weapons means you never really have to buy them so even if it cost money to save it wouldn't really matter much.

A shame really. I would have liked to have seen more use for it. I think we're also missing the stats page on total kills, maimings, thefts etc etc.

And as you pointed out, those elements from the console version are a tad annoying, but hey, it could have been alot worse... I think.

I think we're also missing the stats page on total kills, maimings, thefts etc etc.
Hit escape during the game and the stats option is there.

There were similar discussions before, I think the bottom line was that, yep, the scores suck, but there's a lot of demand for them as especially casual readers want scores. I'd prefer your version as well, but looks like that's not gonna happen.

"I don't see cops arresting, or attempting to, other gang members who start causing havoc"

True, it is a bit annoying when a Columbian drugs cartel starts shooting you as you drive through their territory and the cops just ignore it, but if you start running people over or shooting stuff they're all over you. Not a big issue most of the time though.


"there aren't enough things to buy"

True again. I've got a huge amount of money and not much to spend it on, as I prefer running people over to shooting them (call me old fashioned). And if my car gets beaten up, I either limp back to my home garage and leave it there overnight to magically regenerate, or just dump it and steal another one. To (mis?)quote Jet Li from Romeo Must Die, "I love America - free cars!"


"a point based character progression would add a neat RPG element"

Your stamina does increase the more you run AFAIK. So if you spend a lot of time on foot, you can run further before you get exhausted and have to slow down again. After a few days playing the game the difference is noticeable.


"Not sure if you can decide between two paths on the second island"

Don't think so, but you can certainly decide to kill Kenji before you've done all the jobs for him. The end result is the same - you just miss a few missions.


"make sure you have the frame limiter switched on in the video settings"

Didn't have much choice - if I switched frame limiter and frame sync off the game blue screened after a few minutes. :( GTA3 is the only piece of software that's completely locked up my entire system since I switched to Win2k a few weeks ago, but I think it's because it's straining my graphics card and causing it to overheat, rather than crashing in the conventional sense.


"I have a feeling it'll suck gibbon gonads on my old TNT2"

How much memory have you got on that thing? If it's less than 16Mb the game won't even load. :) If it's 16Mb or more it'll just run at a lousy framerate and be choppy as hell. Either way I'd recommend upgrading your graphics card or biting the bullet and buying a PS2 to play it on.


"Get the police after you in a big way (2-3 cars), then toss a grenade"

Grenades and rocket launchers (and to a lesser degree molotov cocktails) are truly god's work. :) Nothing like causing a huge pile up, clambering out of the wreckage, running down the street as the cops fire at you, turning round and lobbing a grenade into the tangled mess of cars and watching the whole lot get lifted into the air. Lovely.


"the cars around you aren't really saved. Turn around 180° two times, and when you're back where you started the cars you saw originally will be replaced by others"

Yeah, I spotted that, but I just assumed that either a) I was hallucinating or b) they were popping off down a side road while my back was turned. It is a bit freaky though.

Hit escape during the game and the stats option is there.

Ok, I'll have to take another look. I thought last time I saw it it just gave me a single rating.

I really hope we see the London GTA in 3D at some point (highly unlike, I know, even if most of the team are Brits). Don't get me wrong, I love the US setting too, but I really enjoyed the 1960s mission disk and the cockney missions.

I really hope we see the London GTA in 3D at some point (highly unlike, I know, even if most of the team are Brits). Don't get me wrong, I love the US setting too, but I really enjoyed the 1960s mission disk and the cockney missions.

Well hopefully "The Getaway" will provide something of that. It was on show at E3 yet there seems, still, to have been little said about. Anyone that went and saw it come on spill the beans!!

The thing with the cops not actually bothering to arrest other gangs can sort of be weakly explained as that the law enforcement agents are just another gang and they've already been paid off by the other gangs so they don't touch them, you just get to do it a lot slower by using the bribes or by losing a chunk of change when you get busted. It's a gamey explanation but it sort of works! :-)

As well as being useful for taking out cops and gang members, you can also threaten passing pedestrians by targeting them with one of your guns, encouraging them to drop all their money and run.

Oi! I didn't know this? How's it done then? You just point it at them and use the 'target' key? - I'll have to go experiment.

Can't understand how anyone can play GTA3 for 6 months, the only game I played for that long was Half-Life, and that only because it was an online multiplayer game. There is just no single player game that can hold my attention that long.

I played Civ for four years. Civ2 for five or so. So there. :)

and some guy shouting "WASTED" when you're down. Much less frustrating that way. ;)

I've just taken to shouting it myself... am I weird?

I've just taken to shouting it myself... am I weird?

Not that much, although I usually shout "AWW FUCK THIS" when I die. :P

I only scream "AW FUCK THIS" when I fail a mission for the, say, fourth time. Like I just did - the 'Payday for Ray' piece of shit on Staunton Island - the one where you have to go to all the phones. I just missed it with circa 2 seconds... I REALLY HATE the timed missions... takes the fun out of it, and was the real reason I never played the original too much. Seemed like there wasn't as much of that in this one initially, but now I'm starting to get frustrated... any tips?

Seemed like there wasn't as much of that in this one initially, but now I'm starting to get frustrated... any tips?

Nope. Timed missions suck. I think I needed four or five tries at the one you mentioned, and god was it frustrating. Now that I have all three islands, I don't do any missions at all anymore, because all I've left are timed I think.

Seemed like there wasn't as much of that in this one initially, but now I'm starting to get frustrated... any tips?

I've done a couple, but I have a feeling they're the easy ones. It is incredible how you can screw up a good run by just clipping something. I was just trying to break some guy out of jail. All was going fine and dandy until the my swat van got clipped by some taxis driver (I get this huge urge to get out of my vehicle and give "bad" drivers a good slap, kind of weird since a)I'm the one speeding everywhere and b)in realy life I've never got annoyed driving once; I don't think I've ever even used a horn). The van spins around and I end up in some lake, 100 metres away from the respray place. What a laugh.

I just did the jailbreak one - don't worry about the respray place, just take the cop star on the way out, and then get to Kenji's place and pick up that star - then you'll be down to 1 star, and just have to lay low for a minute or two before you're clean and can take the man to the dojo...

Nope. Timed missions suck. I think I needed four or five tries at the one you mentioned, and god was it frustrating.

The thing is, I get so pissed of at hearing him ordering me around every time I get to a booth that I'll probably waste him big-time if I ever finish the mission...

Hehehe. Yeah, it is irritating hearing them going on about it. You can usually skip the missions description with spacebar or fire, but sometimes there is a cutscene that you can't bypass.

Thanks for the tip on the star. I got one coming out of the cop parking lot and was doing ok, until mr taxis driver came along. I've actually only given it one shot so far.

Does anyone know whether pickups return once you take them, specifically health at the hospital?

Don't think they do, but in the case of health, just shoot someone, wait for the ambulance, and get in - it'll get you 50 health...

AFAIK nearly all pickups return. Health pickups most definetly do.
The most important thing to do before timed missions is a) learn to drive really fast, and b) get the fastest car you can. Even if it takes you a couple of minutes running around to find that stinger, it's usually worth it. Also, knowing your way around the city obviously helps tremendously.

Edit: Hmmmm ... maybe I'm wrong about the health pickups, but I'd be surprised.