Gran Turismo 4 Review

The ultimate driving simulator, maybe. But the ultimate racing game?

Version tested: PlayStation 2

Order yours now from Simply Games.

'Gran Turismo 4' Screenshot 1

At its heart, what Polyphony Digital wants Gran Turismo 4 to do is make you feel like you're driving a lot of increasingly expensive cars. Surprisingly. But we mean it wants to make you feel like you're really driving them. This it does with aplomb. As you move further away from its heart (into the ventricles, perhaps), you find that it also wants you to learn how to drive these increasingly expensive cars properly. And it wants you to understand what's better or worse about each of them compared to the other 700. It knows only too well what the difference is, see, and over four iterations on both PlayStations it's developed an enormous number of ways to underscore these differences and get you to understand them.

GT4, like the other GT games, first wants you to complete a serious of increasingly meticulous "Licence Tests", which are your gateway to being able to enter increasingly difficult (and increasingly profitable) races, and test every aspect of your driving from your judgement of braking distances to your ability to corner at different speeds in different cars. It's as much a learning experience as anything, and the bronze/silver/gold medals make for a pleasurable, arcade-esque challenge. It's comparable on this level to Gotham's Kudos challenges, except it wants driving precision rather than driving flair.

It's here that you get your first sense of how much the handling has changed for the better - or, if you're new, simply that it's a lot more animated and engaging than you've been told. The cars used in Licence Tests, plucked from far and wide to try and teach you about particular elements of automotive behaviour, are surprisingly fun to drive from the lowliest town car up to the most uncompromising juggernaut.

When you eventually emerge with a B Licence, the typically ugly and inefficient opening salvo of vehicles for your Garage (beginning with a VW Lupo - cheers chaps) can be largely ignored in favour of spending your first few credits on something nippy and second-hand (particularly if you're a veteran of GT3 or GT4 Prologue, save game files for which give you in-game cash and Licence bonuses). This allows you to pick out something outwardly unexciting like an MX-5 from an early 90s dealer, only to discover much to your delight that it lurches round bends feeling, sounding and rattling your hands provocatively. There's more feedback and sense of things like suspension and engine position, and it's more challenging with it. The price of enjoying yourself more early on is having to work harder later.

'Gran Turismo 4' Screenshot 2

Visually of course everyone knows that it's unparalleled on the PS2 and makes everything else - including GT3 - look grainy, jagged and underdeveloped by comparison. (And we have done direct comparisons; loading up Tsukuba Circuit in games like Enthusia is like going back in time after GT4.) The only complaint we can have is that you need to live in the USA to take advantage of the 480p or 1080i progressive scan modes. It's so well known that it's good looking, in fact, that we're not going to go to great lengths to re-expose that fact. Partly because you can see very well for yourself, but mainly because it's more than the visuals that make it stand out. It's the way every little imperfection in the track surface is reflected by little jolts to your bumper cam view, tiny throbs of the pad in your hands and the little inflections in the sound of the wind rushing past you at high speed.

It's the little touches, like your car's reaction to a rumble strip just telling you that you won't have sufficient downforce and traction to take the corner. The trackside detail and little cameramen snapping away at your bonnet on rally stages and then jumping out of the way as you peel off the start line. The way that front-engine and rear-engine cars require a different cornering mentality and that you can tell that in seconds. The sense of awesome speed that you suddenly get when you find something that's 200bhp beyond what you were previously driving. The way that you can eventually walk out of the room, have your mate fiddle with the car set-up and, with practice, actually realise what's changed when you get back. The tyres, right? Wax on, wax off. Surround sound is a must. So's a steering wheel. GT's got all the parts to make you into a first-class driver, and it's your own fault if you don't bring the tools.

After the Licence Tests, you're thrust into "Gran Turismo World", a big world map populated by country icons, (each of which harbours an array of car manufacturers from that area), second-hand car dealers, tuning shops, test rings, circuits you've unlocked (split into obvious categories like World Circuits, Originals, Dirt & Snow, etc), continental events, Endurance Races and of course Beginner, Professional and Extreme events. From here you can also fiddle with the Jukebox (populated by an extraordinarily vast and fairly eclectic mix of songs - with everything from J-Rock to Soulwax) and find other driving tasks to complete.

The structure is unashamedly GT, and the size of the task sprawled out in front of you as you enter GT World is sizable. A whole week and tens of hours weren't enough to get the "game completion" figure looking anywhere near respectable. It's extremely daunting, and although the handholding in the Licence Tests - complete with increasingly detailed explanations of the driving theory that applies to each challenge, as ever - is welcome, the lack of any subsequent help means that progress will be as slow or as fast as your random exploration of the GT World map lets it be.

'Gran Turismo 4' Screenshot 3

If you don't discover that you can win 265,000 credits' worth of car by completing some relatively easy Special Conditions races, for example, it might be a whole Final Fantasy game's worth of play before you've managed to actually walk into one of the game's myriad car dealers and buy something that doesn't have "One woman owner, 35,000 miles, new CD player" written on the spec sheet. Let alone be able to race competitively. But what's really extraordinary, you might well argue, is that it doesn't even suggest a car you might consider buying. What if it doesn't occur to you to try and find a cheap MX-5? Fortunately, what's also really extraordinary - and perhaps the most satisfying change to the game from a critical standpoint - is that the revised handling means you'll have fun even if you don't figure that out for a week.

Once you've made those first stumbling revs without the child locks on, you'll discover that it's still mostly race-based, covering every manner of circuit (track, street, countryside, rally, snow, etc), but that the Special Conditions and Driving Missions sections add some hitherto unseen character. The former features tasks that might involve winning normal and reserve layouts of particular tracks in tougher one-on-one duels, with the reward being expensive high-end models or concept cars from big manufacturers. The latter section tasks, meanwhile, are not unlike Licence Tests in that they're specific tasks on specific sections of tracks, but here they involve other vehicles, so you may find yourself having to overtake over a certain short and windy stretch of the Autumn Ring track, for example. Which, given the technique you have to apply, makes Gotham's overtaking challenges seem like a slide puzzle next to a Rubik's Cube by comparison.

Speaking of the Autumn Ring, the tracks seem like a good place to go next - and not only are there too many to individually name-check them, but there are too many to even reasonably count all the variations, which even include period versions like multiple historic adjustments to the Fuji Speedway. On the whole the choices from around the world are wonderful - and brought wonderfully to life in-game. Some may be disappointed that Polyphony doesn't opt to design more of its own tracks, but the general level of quality and quantity of quality is admirable. Personal favourites include a winding mountainside street race on roads barely three car widths wide, the broad turns followed by sharp cutbacks of the hilly El Capitan, and of course the much vaunted addition of the enormous Nurburgring Nordschleife, which is so big you can barely pick out the turns on the mini-map, and one of the most visceral driving experiences we've ever enjoyed. We're told by people who'd know that the adjustments made to returning tracks make for more realistic cornering conundrums than ever, and it feels like it.

With so many tracks and so many cars (did we mention that every car manufacturer has races specific to their cars available to compete in, too?) the sheer depth can be terrifying (particularly for a reviewer on a deadline, eh Mr. 5:37am?) but it never leaves you with nothing to do, and the character of the various tasks differs sufficiently that you won't be tempted to pull over when it frustrates you. Racing against a tough grid of cars which clearly can be overhauled with practice can occupy you for hours at a time, but if you tire of that you always can try a completely different driving discipline (and although you may think we mean dirt or snow, it's a description that just as easily fits a lot of the other car set-ups that might be ostensibly similar on the surface). Or you can go back to complete another round of Licence Tests - a discipline in itself, which instils a chip-away mentality that has you going back to try and edge them all up to silver. Tum te tum BAH, restart, tum te tum, ooh, tum, BAH, restart. Etc. The sort of dominating pursuit-of-perfection sensation that we were associating with TrackMania not too long ago.

'Gran Turismo 4' Screenshot 4

You can also spend time with the game's other additions - the B-Spec and Photo modes. B-Spec basically involves managing an AI driver racing in your place. You can tell him to be aggressive, overtake, pit, etc, and view his work from different angles. Although it's arguably little more than a novelty in most cases, it's nice to be able to swap from A to B-Spec in the pits during Endurance Races, and, as we realised recently, it's also a nice excuse to keep playing while you're eating your dinner. Photo mode, meanwhile, allows you to set up complex photo opportunities for your favourite cars, frame them nicely and then save them or send them to a USB printer. We've explored Photo mode in more depth here.

But, as we've said, it's a game that demands the right set-up to enjoy thoroughly. Surround sound and widescreen support make a huge difference. PS2 owners with portable TV perched on the shelf and one slightly knackered pad will not enjoy it to the same degree as people like ourselves. The problem, to return to the heart of the game with a stake in-hand, is that the further you move away from the core focus of the game - the driving - the more you realise that some pretty significant elements have been left rotting in stomach acid. Again. The Dual Shock 2, for example, simply cannot cope with the kind of feather-light touch GT demands. Controlling your speed round corners may be possible with practice in specific Licence Tests, likewise careful steering - but on the track it's twitchy, and the pace and pressure means you find yourself braking too little, accelerating too much and often worse.

You can cope with a pad, and the little on-screen indicators that give you an idea which gear you should be in ahead of a corner help dull the ill effects of the precision the pad struggles to let you command effectively, but you'll never quite master the sort of fractional adjustments and minor compensation that you'll need to be able to apply in a split-second to succeed. The twitchy steering is one thing, but we're also talking about the analogue face buttons. It was hard enough to control your speed using analogue triggers in Gotham on an Xbox pad, but the PS2's X button acts like it's been conscripted and thrust into the general's tent on the same day; it drinks the wine and takes on advice, but it's orders are often misjudged because it's just not the right man for the job. Don't get us wrong; GT4 is fine on a pad. It's just not Super Fine, despite the Photo mode.

Meanwhile, the AI is still taking the piss rather than pumping the lifeblood as it should be. No wonder some of our friends have been spewing bile at it already. After four games, it's shocking to discover that the AI cars still follow a clear line around each track, heartlessly cut back in front of you even when it's obvious you'll hit them as a result, ram your back end and allow you to crawl around the inside of them on corners you have no right to overtake on by using them as buffers. As one US reviewer perceptively noted, if you sit still on the finish line and let them complete a lap and come back round, they will literally slam right into you as if you're not there.

'Gran Turismo 4' Screenshot 5

The game stops letting you get away with bashing AI drivers in certain areas by penalising you with a five-second speed restriction for smashing into other drivers or walls, but even this is ineffectual on tightly designed courses where you barely accelerate away from hairpins anyway - making them an ideal point to start bending the rules in your favour - and even more maddeningly Polyphony seems to have bottled it over this system of penalties by not applying them to the rest of the game. GT is all about driving, so widespread enforcement would seem to be the obvious thing to do, because if you can tip the balance in your favour through a bit of argy-bargy, chances are you're going to do it before too long. A bizarre choice.

Another aspect of that problem is the lack of vehicle damage. Not the aesthetic side of it (we're increasingly led to suspect that the lack of tangible external damage to cars doesn't make a huge amount of difference to people who want to play GT the way it was intended, and that really it's just something handy for journos to ask when series creator Kazunori Yamauchi pops up for a ten-minute Q&A at a trade show), but rather the lack of punishment for impacting on other cars. We seem to remember knackering our suspension by overdoing it in previous GT games, but not so here. Hitting the sand or gravel can have a catastrophic effect on your lap times, but bashing other vehicles generally upsets them by knocking them off their racing lines more than it upsets you.

There's also little restriction on which cars you can actually use in which races, so for a large section of the game if you're income is reasonable you can take hugely outspecced cars onto humble grids and dominate. And we have to confess to doing a certain amount of that. It's just begging to be done, particularly when you're on a deadline; whether that's a copy deadline or a put-the-kids-to-bed-and-watch-a-romcom-with-the-missus deadline. The game's A-Spec points system tries to convince you not to by giving you larger points totals for using relatively underpowered cars, with a points bonus proportionate to your horsepower deficit on the grid, but A-Spec points seem to be more about bragging rights than tangible gains. So who cares, most will ask. And those who do may just bash their way to the front from a standing start and then just block their way to victory. D'oh. There are so many things the game does occasionally to force you to play it properly - penalties, rolling starts to stop you terrorising the first corner, etc - but it gives you the benefit of the doubt way too much. Polyphony: we are gamers; we were brought up to try and succeed, and we exploit things where we can, so stop letting us do it so much.

And, while you're at it, sort out this online/not offline nonsense. You told us it was in, then you were downbeat about it, then you were upbeat, then it was gone. No wonder the (admittedly impressive) split-screen modes and (never to be used by 90 per cent) six-player LAN options aren't doing much for your fans. We're not marking this down because it's not there, but if it were here then it might ease the pain of having to race against pre-programmed automatons.

'Gran Turismo 4' Screenshot 6

As you might be starting to realise by now, Gran Turismo's problems are no longer mechanical or particularly structural - driving is satisfying from the bottom of the game right through to the top - but more to do with the fact that Polyphony isn't getting things wrong; it simply doesn't care about certain things like walking you through the complex world of tuning shops, having artificially intelligent drivers, catering to the PS2's default controller and trying to force you to play by its rules, preferring to concentrate on what it actually wants to be about. It's almost as if it's saying, "Join our club. And if you can't be bothered to do it properly then that's your lookout, innit? It's your money." That's incredibly frustrating. Particularly as the criticisms we have that aren't simply to do with its uncompromising vision are uniformly minor; things like the way you can't swap cars outside Garage mode, the way some of the menuing is unintuitive, and the lack of quick-reset options in Arcade mode where it seems obvious.

As a result your mileage, appropriately enough, will vary. Arguments that it's not even a game are perhaps misplaced - chipping away at Licence Tests, races, Special Conditions and Driving Missions and collecting cars is all compulsive, structured fun that sees you zigzagging over the GT World map in order to make sure you have a car that's only 3400mm long, for example, so you can participate in that one championship that still eludes you. That's a game to us. And, as you've probably grasped by now, it's the best and more realistic driving game on the PS2, and much better at being fun all the way through than its immediate family.

But arguments that its car obsession has blinded Yamauchi and friends to the needs of the average PS2 gamer are more valid. Gran Turismo 4 is the Encyclopaedia Britannica of driving, with more than 700 distinct sets of wheels to prove it, and introduces you to it with the restrained reverence of a martial arts instructor. It wants you to win through training and discipline, not brute force and chrome elbows to the side panelling. But under the pressures GT exerts it's hard not to stray from your goal, and as a game it doesn't steer you or reprimand you enough for your misdemeanours. As a result it comes off more like an interactive reference guide, even though it remains fun in spades and, for the Daniel-sans who can stick unswervingly to task, probably the most essential game of 2005.

What's disappointing for the rest of us, however, is that while this is unquestionably the pinnacle of Polyphony's attempts to capture driving in game form, it still isn't - and isn't even trying to be - the pinnacle of racing games. And that's where the series needs to start heading if it wants to keep us coming back with another wad of notes every four years.

Order yours now from Simply Games.

8 / 10

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Comments (70) Latest comment 7 years ago

Comments threads automatically close after 30 days, but please feel free to continue chatting on the forum!

  • Rusta #1 7 years ago

    oh no!, punishment by death then
  • blablabla #2 7 years ago

    :( my time, my precious, preciouos time. all gone....
  • Tiger_Walts #3 7 years ago

    "...and of course the much vaunted addition of the enormous Nurburgring Nordschleife, which is so big you can barely pick out the turns on the mini-map..."

    It's also frustratingly narrow compared to PGR2.
  • jumpdeveraux #4 7 years ago

    Time to plug in the wheel again... even if they didn't want to go for damage modelling (again) it would have still been nice to implented a cash penalty damage meter like in Sega GT 2002, certainly stopped me using the other cars as cornering aids.
  • Mugwum Verified Operations Director, Eurogamer Network #5 7 years ago

    "The encyclopedia references in the 2nd last paragraph make me suspicious that someone has been reading (or writing) Edge"

    I've never had anything published in Edge to my knowledge. But I've certainly read their review, because the score sounded... odd. I don't agree with their conclusions really, but I can see how they reached them.

    Though, given what I've heard about GTR, I was surprised at the "it's not a game, 7" angle on Gran Turismo 4 when GTR got the "what a game, 8" treatment a few pages later.
  • countlippe #6 7 years ago

    The most boring game ever volume 4!!
  • gizmo #7 7 years ago

    I'll skip this one for sure, the AI and 'cornering aids' were tedious last time around, and we're a few years on now. At least in Toca race driver 2 it felt like you were RACING, not driving around a circuit in mismatched cars with a carnival procession driving around it at the same time.
  • dose #8 7 years ago

    So how does this compare tot the US version? Good conversion? Same features?
  • teabagger #9 7 years ago

    Entirely as expected. Pretty dissapointing that the AI is still poor, people argue it's about learing the cars and getting the laptimes but if that's the case then why have AI drivers at all? Personally I just feel it's laziness, like the review says they work on what they want and to hell with it. They know everyone will buy it regardless (me included).

    Incidentally, I reckon I might get a wheel for this. Which one should I be getting?
  • Mugwum Verified Operations Director, Eurogamer Network #10 7 years ago

    "Dont get me wrong, Im not making accusations of plagiarism. I just find it to be an interesting coincidence that two writers have apparently arrived at the exact same analogy independently"

    I know you weren't accusing me, don't worry :-)

    It's not really a coincidence if I've read the other piece though. It's just the simplest way to sum it up and they got there first, I guess. If you'd prefer to think of it as an interactive museum, you may :-)

    Mind you, it raises another interesting point - that of whether reviewers should read other reviews where possible before penning their own. My view in this specific case, for a game as big as GT, was that it'd be a good thing to read what other people were saying once I'd figured out what I thought about it, because sometimes you find you've missed something obvious or they've spotted something subtle that you missed.

    Of course it's worth doing anyway for the fact it gives you an idea - as in this case - what kind of arguments other people who think less of it are using to attack it. Actually, that's kind of interesting in itself - reviewers having their style influenced so it pre-emptively defends certain things in order to save them from a comments backlash :-)

    Cue a comments backlash.

    (I really, really wish I could go to bed.)
    Edited by 1 at 09/03/05 @ 09:44
  • bink #11 7 years ago

    "I just find it to be an interesting coincidence that two writers have apparently arrived at the exact same analogy independently."

    Game features an extraordinary amount of cars with an extraordinary amount of detailed information on each one, some people might call this encyclopaedic.

    Most famous encyclopaedia by far is the Encyclopaedia Brittanica (Pears doesn't come close).

    Game is compared to Encyclopaedia Brittanica.

    Not exactly a startling leap, is it. In fact, you'd be better off berating them for making lazy comparisons.
  • Mugwum Verified Operations Director, Eurogamer Network #12 7 years ago

    "you'd be better off berating them for making lazy comparisons."

    Yeah, those boring wasters. Do some effing work!
  • l_p_4_7 #13 7 years ago

    Ho hum.

    4 years of development.
    No online mode.
    No improvement in the AI.
    No PAL 60hz mode.

    Disgrace.
    Edited by 1 at 09/03/05 @ 10:07
  • brainbird #14 7 years ago

    "Sounds rather disappointing."

    Disappointing compared to the previous GTs.
    The best racing simulator compared to any other racing game.
  • Tiger_Walts #15 7 years ago

    Judging by my demo pod experience yesterday, a wheel is a must. Floppy Dual Shock sticks just don't cut it. You'd expect a stick to have more resistance the further you push it wouldn't you?
  • Rankin #16 7 years ago

  • Pirotic #17 7 years ago

    Had the PAL version for a week and a bit, i'm really enjoying it but still forked out for a US import which will hopefully turn up soonish.

    (small)borders and 50hz? no thanks :p
  • brainbird #18 7 years ago

    "And don't start that "racing simulator" pish that Polyphony brainwashed so many with."

    If it was the first game in the series everyone would go nuts about it, that's all I'm saying.
    Is it the most enjoyable racing game? Probably not. Is it the best racing simulator (as I was brainwashed by Sony)? Probably yes.
    Edited by 1 at 09/03/05 @ 10:05
  • markypants #19 7 years ago

    Most famous encyclopaedia by far is the Encyclopaedia Brittanica (Pears doesn't come close)

    I think you'll find that it is 'The Hitchhickers Guide To The Galaxy'.
    Edited by 1 at 09/03/05 @ 10:07
  • brainbird #20 7 years ago

    "So Half Life 2 is the best "running around shooting alien soldiers in the face simulator"?"

    Yes, it is ;)
    I see your point.
  • gamingdave #21 7 years ago

    Considering ive just got MGS3 this wont be picked up today. The visiuals look stunning, and im hearing from everywhere that the driving is even better. But I cant really justify it when I still havent finished GT3 or PGR2. Its just more of the same, maybe buitifully realised, but more of the same. Had the AI been sorted and there was a proper challenge (other than the License tests) I may have got this, but as it is ill wait for GT5.
  • renzo #22 7 years ago

    "It's just that "simulator" word I don't like in game context. So Half Life 2 is the best "running around shooting alien soldiers in the face simulator"?"

    Better tell Microsoft to name their next FS game "Microsoft Flying Game 2006" then.
  • MrGrumpy.au #23 7 years ago

    Aren't we (i.e. PAL territories) supposed to get a bunch of extra cars (6 - 12) for the wait?

    Anyhow as mentioned by l_p_4_7, the lack of Online, PAL60 and smart AI really is dissapointing (maybe the lack of HDTV modes now that it's slowly taking off).

    But as per usual I'll still find a way to enjoy it just like I did with MTX Mototrax (now that was a blast online) and spend many hours stuck to the TV.

    Cheers from Aus
  • onyxbox #24 7 years ago

    I guess if they had more memory in the PS2 they could have done more with the A.I and damage etc.. but Graphics do shift boxes so that’s where the improvements went IMO.
  • renzo #25 7 years ago

    "I wondered how long that comment would take. To my knowledge MS Flight Sim isn't about beating opponents over a finish line so I guess it DOES count as a true simulator."

    You could just drive hotlaps around the tracks without any AI opponents. And racing other cars around a track does happen in real-life. I don't see how it's any less of a simulator than Microsoft's game is.

    Oh wait, you probably also saw those comments coming too huh?
  • Tiger_Walts #26 7 years ago

    Stick acceleration and braking is nowhere near as good as analogue triggers. Sometimes you want to tap the brake while keeping your revs up, can't do that with a stick setup.
  • valli #27 7 years ago

    Very good review Mugwum, glad you didn't complain too much about the lack of online mode although it must have affected the score, understandably.

    Pselling missatke, from somewhere in the middle: so for a large section of the game if you're income is reasonable.
  • UncleLou #28 7 years ago

    Still sounds disappointing. And don't start that "racing simulator" pish that Polyphony brainwashed so many with. It's a racing GAME which don't sound that much better than GT3 and still has it's exact same flaws.

    What are you talking about? Since when did Polyphony call it a "racing simulator"? They've always referred to it as a "driving simulator", as far as I know.

    And that's what it is.
  • Stickman #29 7 years ago

    visceral - obtained through intuition rather than from reasoning or observation. [syn. intuitive, nonrational]

    (WordNet 2.0, copyright Princeton University 2003)

    Sometimes words have more than one meaning, do you see?

    If you want to criticise the lack of anatomical knowledge, go for the first paragraph; the ventricles are part of the heart, therefore not moving away from it at all, rather directly into it.

    I need to get out more.
    PS. SOMEONE'S = the post belonging to someone.
    Edited by 3 at 09/03/05 @ 11:58
  • plasdas #30 7 years ago

    Once again us europeans have had to bend over and take it, thanks to yet another poor pal conversion. Sure it hardly needs to be converted anymore.

    How hard is it to keep the 60hz mode that's already there? Not to mention NOT removing the support of 480p and 1080i?
    While I can take advantage of a 60hz mode, I can't take advantage of 480p and 1080i, but I'm sure there are those who take use both and it's yet another step in the wrong direction.

    It's nice to know that we are still just an after thought. And wow...a handful of extra cars when there's already 700 in there isn't anything worth shouting about.

    I'm probably going to wait till the next edition, hopefully there'll be AI in the game, as well as damage. And by that time, if I'm lucky, I'm might be able to take my console online.
  • Heds #31 7 years ago

    The lack of support of HD modes in Europe is beginning to worry me. Is every publisher assuming that people in the EU aren't going to buy HD teles?

    I hope they are, else I'm out of a job!
  • Eighthours #32 7 years ago

    I'll go with my usual comment on the GT series which I've never received a sufficient answer to:

    Why, if the "racing" doesn't matter, if the AI doesn't matter, if the cheap bumper-car physics don't matter (the standard arguments of the GT fanboys), if the "pure driving experience" is what it's all about, then why oh why is almost ALL progression in the game achieved by means of your position in RACES?

    Explain that one away to me, someone.
  • Eighthours #33 7 years ago

    The lack of support of HD modes in Europe is beginning to worry me. Is every publisher assuming that people in the EU aren't going to buy HD teles?

    I hope they are, else I'm out of a job!


    Well, Gamespy are claiming that all Xbox 2 games will have to include HD modes.
  • andrewfromdoncaster #34 7 years ago

    typowatch: a serious of increasingly ? (2nd para)

    Just trying to help.
  • Yaz #35 7 years ago

    "What are you talking about? Since when did Polyphony call it a "racing simulator"? They've always referred to it as a "driving simulator", as far as I know."

    And that's the problem, after all this time, the racing aspects of their "simulator" should have evolved by now. Instead GT4 has the same mindless AI which many found disappointing in GT3 (including myself).

    Everything about GT3 was superb except the dumb AI, which ruined the experience for me. Hence improvements I would have hoped to see in GT4 were as follows (in order of preference); AI, online, damage, graphics, then more tracks & more cars.

    So as it is, GT4 is the best console 'driving' sim to date, but there are better console racing games available. I guess it's a long wait for GT5 then.

    Perhaps Forza (yes I've said it now ;)) will succeed in areas where GT4 is lacking, but who knows, it could be dissapointing too (the latest Forza movies on gamespy looks impressive though).
  • renzo #36 7 years ago

    " I'll go with my usual comment on the GT series which I've never received a sufficient answer to:

    Why, if the "racing" doesn't matter, if the AI doesn't matter, if the cheap bumper-car physics don't matter (the standard arguments of the GT fanboys), if the "pure driving experience" is what it's all about, then why oh why is almost ALL progression in the game achieved by means of your position in RACES?

    Explain that one away to me, someone."


    um... why does anyone need to explain it to you? Do you have that argument saved in a Word document or something? I don't see anyone arguing the merits of any of those things you mentioned, so who are you arguing with exactly?
  • Tillbo81 #37 7 years ago

    Regarding online play - Is it not possible to use tunnel software such as something similar to Xbconnect for xbox to play the LAN mode over the net?
  • Yaz #38 7 years ago

    ^^^

    Yes it is, but as anyone who did this with Halo would know, it's just not the same as a dedicated online mode.

    However, if you're happy to go though the setup via your PC, and not too bothered about lag problems (unless you're hosting the game), then it's an acceptable alternative.
    Edited by 1 at 09/03/05 @ 12:32
  • bionutz #39 7 years ago

    I never played Gran Turismo. Would this game be a 10 if it was the first one in the series? I want to know if it's actually a good one, if I never had contact with Gran Turismo.
  • Yaz #40 7 years ago

    "Would this game be a 10 if it was the first one in the series?"

    Probably a 9 at best.

    Great AI followed by an online mode could have made it a 10 (imo).
    Edited by 1 at 09/03/05 @ 12:39
  • jepf #41 7 years ago

    I (too) don't understand why GT is called/seen as a driving simulator. It's nowhere near a simulation (as is Grand Prix Legends or GTR). It's a good not-so-arcade racer, nothing more.
    Edited by 1 at 09/03/05 @ 13:08
  • UncleLou #42 7 years ago

    I (too) don't understand why GT is called/seen as a driving simulator. It's nowhere near a simulation (as is Grand Prix Legends or GTR). It's a good not-so-arcade racer, nothing more.

    I disagree. It feels like driving a real car to me. The "realism" argument always strikes me as a bit weird anyway. Do you think Michael Schuhmacher could control a perfectly realistic F1 simulation by looking at a 2-dimensional screen, and without any real feedback of the car?

  • teabagger #43 7 years ago

    " I'll go with my usual comment on the GT series which I've never received a sufficient answer to:

    Why, if the "racing" doesn't matter, if the AI doesn't matter, if the cheap bumper-car physics don't matter (the standard arguments of the GT fanboys), if the "pure driving experience" is what it's all about, then why oh why is almost ALL progression in the game achieved by means of your position in RACES?

    Explain that one away to me, someone."


    Yes, yes, yes yes and yes.
  • drumbaby #44 7 years ago

    "Why, if the "racing" doesn't matter, if the AI doesn't matter, if the cheap bumper-car physics don't matter (the standard arguments of the GT fanboys), if the "pure driving experience" is what it's all about, then why oh why is almost ALL progression in the game achieved by means of your position in RACES?

    Explain that one away to me, someone. "

    Because it gives the game a context that's more interesting than driving to the shops on empty B roads, and you get to see lots of other fast cars with the challenge of driving clean with beautifully realistic physics/ handling?

    How's that?

    :)
  • Freek #45 7 years ago

    Meanwhile, the AI is still taking the piss rather than pumping the lifeblood as it should be. No wonder some of our friends have been spewing bile at it already. After four games, it's shocking to discover that the AI cars still follow a clear line around each track, heartlessly cut back in front of you even when it's obvious you'll hit them as a result, ram your back end and allow you to crawl around the inside of them on corners you have no right to overtake on by using them as buffers. As one US reviewer perceptively noted, if you sit still on the finish line and let them complete a lap and come back round, they will literally slam right into you as if you're not there.

    That's all I needed to hear. I'll let this ride till it crashes into the budget bin.
  • bink #46 7 years ago

    Apologies for the ridiculous plug, but look we made the book.
  • [maven] #47 7 years ago

    "The cars are still soft and fluffy. there's no edginess to them. There isn't a decent feeling of mass or momentum in fast corners, and there's no liveliness or twitchiness"

    Have you done the National A license test 16? Nürburgring?

    No twitchiness my ass. ;)
  • The-Bodybuilder #48 7 years ago

    How can people say the GT series is a driving simulator if it doesn't even have some form of a "clutch" on the controls?

    But meh, Ferarri F355 is the closest thing to a "drving sim" so far IMO.
  • Ozwald #49 7 years ago

    I managed to get my hands on the Logitech Driving Force Pro and it really makes a difference, well worth spending the money on a decent wheel. I have tried a few and wasted my money....thank heavens for Logitech.....my missus aint happy tho'....!!!!!!
  • Killerbee #50 7 years ago

    Great review, but pretty much summed up what I expected to see - more of GT3 but a bit more polished, more cars, tracks and a few novelty features (photo mode, B-spec etc).

    But fundamentally it's Polyphony's failure to sort the AI out which means I won't be buying this (at least not until I see it going cheap somewhere!). I've nowhere near "finished" GT3 and the thought of starting all those license tests and building up my garage all over again just doesn't have any appeal.

    I'm sure it's a superb example of the racing genre, but it just feels like they missed a big opportunity here.
  • davyuk #51 7 years ago

    Why do people think driving has to include crashing? You must either have a ridiculous premium on your car, or never watch racing. You're not supposed to crash, and if you do, real crash damage would put you back in the pits permanently. If Polyphony included crash damage, they'd do it so acurately that you'd whinge about losing races all the time.

    It's a driving game, not a crashing game.
  • BartonFink #52 7 years ago

    Pretty much as expected really.

    Rehash of GT3 with better graphics and not much else fixed.
  • Yaz #53 7 years ago

    "J**** it's always so easy to spot the brainless c***s who've obviously not actually played the game. F****** w*****s"

    .
    ..
    ...
    .....
    ...... Er, so how's the weather in your part of the world?

    (*backs away slowly*)
  • JDub #54 7 years ago

    My GF picked up GT4 tonight from Toys r Us tonight. Quite amazed really. She remembers me raving a few weeks back....anyway...point is, the store is doing a promotion where you get a free wireless steering wheel and pedals, all for the same £40. I've already got one, but a good deal still. The review was less than stella but hey!...the game is more of the same, more refined and with better visuals. I'll still enjoy giving it a good bash!! :)

    I thought some of you might want to know about the offer.
  • Stickman #55 7 years ago

    WOPR - You're a dick.
  • Lutz #56 7 years ago

    Same as Halo then?

    /legs it
  • fxgogo #57 7 years ago

    Nice game, but not enough new for me to justify the £30. I enjoyed the new interface and countless options, but I will still take it back to the shop and finish GT3 rather. If there was online racing, that would of been a different matter though.
  • valli #58 7 years ago

    Cobragt is either Razz (he's 99% of them, y'know) or Hyoushi. :D
  • BartonFink #59 7 years ago

    So it's as good as, not better than, not worse than, Halo then?

    Played it tonight and TBH couldn't really tell if I was playing GT3 or GT4. Graphics are better but as for the rest ..... AI?

    The Real Driving Simulator my ...

    /awaits witchhunt
  • HarryB #60 7 years ago

    I'm not allowed to speak about GT4 or Valli ignores me.... OH NO!!!!
  • Scimarad #61 7 years ago

    Wow! Have just discovered this game has Deloreans and 2CVs

    /is impressed
    Edited by 1 at 11/03/05 @ 18:05
  • jonnyreb #62 7 years ago

    I remember reading an interview with the GT4 Dev team 18 months or so ago..........they were talking about how the AI would be a huge step up from any other racing sim.
    To paraphrase, the comment was '...if you crash into another car, or try and use a competitor as a cornering tool, then that AI driver will hunt your arse down during the race and make you pay.....'

    Sounds like they didn't quite manage that :p I'll stick with PGR2 and Burnout 3 for now thanks :)
  • chronom4n #63 7 years ago

    well here is my five minutes of gt4 ranting and raving...1 - i cant believe this about all you guys complaining about the controller setup. why not set up the acceleration/braking as the shoulder buttons and this way u will be able to tap the gas/brake pedals just as though u were controlling a real pedal setup. 2... gt3... it was possible to set up the DS so that the right stick would be the gearbox.... that made the whole experience amazingly enjoyable. i hate gt4 for omitting that feature. really vexed me up. half a point knocked down for that ommission. 3... i have seen the list of cars on forza motorsports and the car list on gt4.... there is very little chance of me driving the slow cars on gt4.. the cars on forza all border on very exotic. i am well fedup with being fed a bunch of tripe about the AI on GT4... ever since GT3 they have been saying that the AI will have a personality. the only cars that pose a challenge on GT3/4 were the leaders and even then once u got the setup correct for the correct track and youre driving skills were up to scratch... it was possible to blitz them. 4- but whatever anyone says about the GT series... EDGE summed it up properly in one their 10/10 games issues.. "GT has always been about you, the track, and the car." the pleasure for me (and i play with a a mad catz mc2 wheel) is tyring to beat ur own lap times and/or driving skill. the intensity with which the GT series has done this is nothing short of phenomenal.. Also one final thing, Yamauchi has said that if he implemented real damage in the game, there would be no car left. He would intend it to be that realisic. take it from me a mate of mine crashed his fiat uno into a bus at 5 mph and totally wrote off his car. so all u guys out there i think that answers ur question as to why there is no crash damage. Sorry about the long rant and rave but thats all i have to say.
  • Master Cheif #64 7 years ago

    So this game was not all it cracked up to be then??? i have no idea as im an xbox player but i heard a lot about it
  • gamecubeisbest #65 7 years ago

    this game is too slow for me and nothing happens when you crash a very bad simulation game if you ask me i would give it 3 out of 10
  • valli #66 7 years ago

    grand turismo 5 due to come out on 7th october ps2,psp,xbox and cube

    Can't wait! Thanks for letting us know!
  • Yaz #67 7 years ago

    "The AI is certainly robotic, but can I just say, PGR2's much praised AI can be just as stupid at times... Damage modelling? First, Microsoft will have thrown a whole heap more cash at the car firms to allow damage in PGR2. Second, hit a wall at speed in PGR2 and what exactly happens?... "

    That's all good and well Kelvin, but in case you didn't realise, PGR2 IS NOT A SIM. It never was, it never was intended to be, and it never will be. It's a racing game where the focus is on 'fancy driving', not realworld simulation. I guess you can call PGR2 an arcade racer with sim-like qualities, but whatever you call it, it's not a sim.

    I mean, why not point out the lack of realism and AI problems in Burnout 3 whilst you're at it! ;)

    The fact is, whilst PGR2 is not a sim, the AI in that game is still far more satifying to race against and seems much more 'human like' than the AI in GT4. Yes it's not perfect, no AI is, but it's still impressive.

    GT4 is a driving sim, not PGR2, so surely it should have been the game with better, more human-like AI? Instead, the AI is as disappointing in GT4 as it was in GT3. Atleast in PGR2, the AI is actually aware of your presence on the track!

    Don't get me wrong, I know GT4 is superb, but it has flaws which should have been resolved by now in the FORTH game of the series. As it is, gamers now have to wait for GT5 for long overdue improvements.

    Until then, perhaps Forza will fill that void for me, just as GT4 is doing so for others, like yourself. We'll see.
    Edited by 2 at 15/03/05 @ 16:18
  • og.loc #68 7 years ago

    OG Loc is the man in the place punch you in the face a gun on my waist it's Loc baby Loc baby Loc baby
  • zErOb_cOOl #69 7 years ago

    Yep the game is practically photo realistic. It really is great. Im sick of people going on about how great Forza is GOING to be. Its not out yet! Won't be for a while! GT4 has already won for now! A game coming out months after another similar game SHOULD be better! Probably won't be though. For a start people are moaning about no 60hz mode in GT4. No HD TV support bla bla bla...Not giving praise for rendering photo-realistic graphics at 60FPS on the PS2!!!! Forza runs at 30fps. THAT is a disgrace on a largely more powerful console.
  • valli #70 7 years ago

    has anyone got the money cheat

    Yes. Press [], O, X, O, X. Then hold down SELECT and press and hold down the reset button for 3 seconds.