Forza Motorsport Review

By Kristan Reed Published 9 May, 2005

Microsoft's GT pretender toes the racing line immaculately.

Version tested: Xbox

There's no getting away from the fact that Forza is a sublime achievement. However tired of driving games you might be, Forza is brimming with an infectious freshness that makes it damned near impossible to tear yourself away from. In many ways Forza is Microsoft's finest achievement on Xbox.

The key to Forza's success is its instant accessibility. It manages to be both in-depth and indulgent without ever daunting the novice. It's incredibly well thought out, from top to bottom, hiding away oceanic layers of depth with a consistent, arcade-like reward system that almost never leaves players feeling frustrated or embattled with learning curve spikes and niggling issues. It offers a huge challenge but never rams it down your throat, offering multiple solutions to the same problem - challenges that are simultaneously intuitive to second-guess, yet satisfying to resolve.

Thanks to some immensely intelligent design at its core, Forza is one of the few driving sims that's likely to appeal to the broadest possible spectrum of gamers. Whether it's the quick thrill casual gamer who just wants to screech around a familiar circuit in a high powered monster or the uber hardcore nutters thirsting to tweak every nut and bolt in the pursuit of the ultimate ride, Forza ticks all the right boxes pretty much all of the time.

Tour guide

'Forza Motorsport' Screenshot 1

One of Forza's core innovations that will especially appeal to the newcomer is its use of a dynamic racing line; a quite superbly well-implemented guideline of small semi-transparent arrows that sit above the track and not only tell you where you should be aiming to drive at any given time, but provide a colour-coded suggestion as to whether you should be hitting the gas (green), easing off it (yellow), or braking (red). Usefully, it's not simply a generic 'best racing line' suggestion that applies to each track, but will actually change to suit whatever car you're in at the time as well.

Sure, as you become more proficient at each track you begin to realise that it's not always giving you the most efficient feedback (telling you to slow down on S turns, for example, when you don't really need to, or providing overly conservative braking suggestions), and it won't necessarily win you the best lap times, but it certainly offers you a means of getting into the game quickly, without having to overcome the vertical learning curve normally associated with racing around unfamiliar tracks in unfamiliar cars. In short, it's a magnificent idea. (And, yes, you can turn it off).

It's true that Forza doesn't have a fleet of cars to match the mighty Gran Turismo 4 (230 in this case, from more than 50 manufacturers), but it's almost to its credit that it doesn't play the numbers game to try and impress. It's open to debate, but sometimes less is more, and in Forza's case it doesn't simply load the player with cars they'll never drive. Thanks to an intelligent progression system you have to work for every single car you unlock, and while some cars in your ever-expanding fleet don't immediately prove their worth, it seems that they pretty much all come in handy at some point or other.

Forza isn't just another one of those racing games that's all about roaring the most powerful car around a succession of tracks to victory; it's a game that sets a whole plethora of racing conditions from race to race, requiring that you must get used to handling a wide variety of different cars whether you want to or not - and it's all the better for doing so.

Home boy

'Forza Motorsport' Screenshot 2

While Forza does have plenty of genuinely pleasing innovations and a host of striking technical feats, it's probably the wonderful career structure that really underpins what's so good about the game, and the thing which will have you glued to your screens for weeks, nay months on end.

It all looks pretty innocuous when you're presented with the choice of home region (choosing North America, Asia or Europe affects the rarity and cost of different cars), and an initial selection of entry-level cars to choose from. In fact, there doesn't appear to be anything especially radical about the race types available to you. To begin with only Amateur and Point-to-Point races are unlocked, and it's then up to you to build up credits by racing through and winning the various challenges within.

Given that you start off on level zero, it's pretty fundamental that you level up as soon as you can; not only to unlock some of the other race series (some of which won't be selectable until you reach, say, level 5, 10, 15 and so on), but to begin to unlock other cars and to be able to have the funds to spec up your ride to give you an important advantage.

But simply reaching a certain level doesn't guarantee that you can enter a given race series, with every one governed by entry requirements, which could be the car's class, type, manufacturer, power, or pretty much anything you can think of [I doubt it goes that far. Does it, for example, discriminate based on your favourite member of Take That? -Ed]. Like I said, it's not simply about acquiring a car, speccing it up and winning races - it requires a lot more thought and dedication, and as a result really feels like you've earned your place in the race in the first place.

Going for gold

'Forza Motorsport' Screenshot 3

But even when you've successfully earned new cars through levelling up, winning gold medals on every race of a series, or just buying a new one outright, winning a race remains challenging. Many times you'll enter a race and realise you're hopelessly out of your depth, and return to your garage to either choose a more powerful model that also qualifies for the race, or - just as likely - spend time and money carefully speccing up your ride with a host of performance upgrades.

As usual, these take the form of engine power upgrades, appearance and aero additions, not to mention chassis and drivetrain modifications. And while some will be superfluous visual mods, many of these upgrades will send a previously innocuous D-class plodder into the realms of A and S-class superstardom. Pleasingly, while it is possible to go on and set up your car just so with a suite of set-up options, the actual modding side of it is slick and intuitive, so there's no need to get your hands too dirty.

Fully modded up, you're usually then in a much better position to really romp home against the pack, which in turn provides more credits, more cars to add to your collection, and therefore more tracks to race on. With 20 race series in Amateur alone (each comprising of three or four races per series), it takes a fair while to get through.

After you've battled your way up to level 10, Professional races unlock, which are much tighter in terms of both the standard on offer and the entry requirements. A bit later you hit the Championship series (unlockable after level 20), which up the ante further by forcing you to finish first after a series of races (as opposed to merely winning each one in isolation). And then, for the absolute elite drivers, Endurance Events unlock; each extremely long, requiring pit stops and no small amount of brutal driving skill, concentration and the utmost patience.

You can, if you fancy, train a Drivatar to do the racing for you. Similar to Gran Turismo 4's B-spec mode, but slightly more involved, it may sound like a bit of a cop out but it's actually a very good demonstration of just how well the game has been designed. A five-part series of races repeatedly reads how effectively you perform certain moves in different situations and then averages them out by the end to give a percentage score in each discipline. To be fair, I wasn't as good as I thought I was, so it didn't really get used much; plus the necessity to watch races running in real-time isn't exactly thrilling, so unless you just want to go and make a cuppa and trust your Drivatar to do the work for you, you'll probably be better off doing it yourself.

Scorelords

'Forza Motorsport' Screenshot 4

If that wasn't enough, Forza even uploads your single-player track times to Xbox Live, just as it did with Project Gotham 2 so sublimely, so you can expect to spend quite a considerable amount of time trying to usurp friends' rankings long after you've gone about the business of winning the gold medal on any given race. Not only that, but Forza also offers the welcome ability to build up your Career credits via an Online Career mode as well. Using an ELO ranking system based on a Chess rating standard, Xbox Live will match you with other human opponents of equivalent skill, giving you an alternative means of building up credits even when you've possibly hit a brick wall progression-wise offline.

Naturally, much of your enjoyment here will be lag-dependent (and inevitably some players have reported it, others not), but although I did have some curious connection issues to begin with (players regularly sitting there not bothering to accept our challenges, the connect icon not going away even after I'd cancelled and other such quirks), with the right opponents it's a mode that you could quite feasibly be playing indefinitely. Support is for up to eight players simultaneously, and given the disappointing lack of online play in GT4, Forza naturally wins all the plaudits here.

Once you've built up an online affinity with a few players you can even go ahead and set up your own Car Club. Effectively it's a shared Friends/clan system for like-minded drivers who want to go out and prove their worth on the track. Car stats are tracked as a group, so it should be a fun means of keeping the online Forza community alive for a long time to come. Alongside Halo 2 and Project Gotham Racing 2, Forza is another shining example of how to integrate online play into a console game, and another sound reason to shell out on that Xbox Live subscription.

So, with an immensely appealing career mode structure and a Microsoft's seamless online integration to draw you into Forza, it's good to note that the technical side of the game doesn't let the package down in any way. The handling, for starters, is sublime, managing to effectively simulate a wide variety of car types in a way that's both convincing and accessible. Having played everything from GTR to Midnight Club 3 recently, everyone seems to have their own opinions on what 'realism' is, and I'd have to nod sagely that Microsoft really nailed the right balance here between making Forza fun and playable while also catering to the hardcore realism that's required. A plethora of driving assists can be switched off or on as required, so there's little to stop you upping the ante once you've become very proficient, and indeed the game even rewards you with more credits if you desire to make things harder for yourself.

The need for speed

'Forza Motorsport' Screenshot 5

Admittedly, in terms of the sense of speed Forza conveys, the game takes a while to get out of the starting blocks (thanks, in part, to some spongy, sluggish opening cars), but as you progress in unlocking the more powerful beasts it builds and builds, with two first-person camera views offering real seat-of-the-pants tarmac-licking positioning. Locked at 30FPS, it's never going to have the same eye-bulging warp factor nine sensation of G-force that, say, Burnout 3 delivered so effortlessly, but it's pretty damned satisfying nevertheless.

If you're one of the lucky few in Europe to be able to take advantage of the game's 480 progressive scan mode then Forza has a real feast of visual treats that really push the Xbox in every conceivable way. Featuring technical wizardry right up there with the awesome (and hopelessly undersold) Rallisport Challenge 2, it tackles a wide variety of environments with universal aplomb, from Tokyo cityscapes to winding Alpine climbs to the more traditional real-life tracks (such as Silverstone), with barely any instances of pop-up discernable, never mind frame rate issues or any glitches worthy of the name. In fact, with the right HDTV widescreen set up you'll really be blown away by the epic draw distance, constant frame rate and some supremely well-modelled cars on show. On a personal level, I think it sports a slightly softer look to Gran Turismo, but on balance it gets everything absolutely spot on in that department. Lord only knows what the inevitable Xbox 360 sequel will look like.

This gloriously proficient eye candy is further enhanced by all manner of incidental effects, one of them making a long-desired entry into the world of sim-racing; that of damage modelling. First of all, don't expect Burnout levels of carnage, but do expect the kind of damage where it not only looks pretty damned convincing, but then surprises you even more when parts of your car become trackside obstacles! It's one thing seeing your front bumper hit the dirt, but another to find yourself swerving to avoid it on the next lap!

The light at the end of the tunnel

'Forza Motorsport' Screenshot 6

Another subtle, but very sweet effect is the way the screen quickly adjusts when you emerge from a dark tunnel into a bright area, rather like your eyes would in real life. It really is one of those games where the closer you look, the better it gets, rather than the other way around. Right down to the tire tread it's packed with a staggering degree of technical accomplishment, and for once you have to admit that this wouldn't have been possible on any other console system.

On the audio side I have some pretty mixed feelings. On the one hand, I'm happy to have Microsoft make our palms sweat with genuinely harrowing surround sound effects that let you know precisely when you've got an opponent on your tail. On the other, I'm appalled by the soundtrack. The Junkie XL-penned effort is mostly awful (with the exception of one of a curiously Verve-esque menu instrumental), and had me grinding teeth over the presence of some truly grating generic rock nonsense. You know, the sort that used to blight games years ago. Fortunately you have the option to switch it off altogether or customise, so all is not lost. But even so, is it the duty of driving games to ritually assault our ears or what?

To sum it all up neatly, Forza succeeds by being one of the very few racing games that has the potential to appeal to all driving game fans. It'll unite the action drivers by being accessible and fun, the mod crowd for having a bewildering array of customisation options and after-market enhancements, and the hardcore simulation fanatics by its blistering attention to detail and enormous degree of challenge. With Microsoft's typically brilliant online implantation underpinning everything, alongside its determination to break technical boundaries Forza Motorsport is a quite staggering achievement for a first attempt and is a must have for any driving game fan - even if that means buying an Xbox in order to play it.

9 / 10

Read the Eurogamer.net scoring policy
Picture of Kristan.

About Kristan Reed

Kristan is a former editor of Eurogamer, dad, Stone Roses bore and Norwich City supporter who sometimes mutters optimistically about Team Silent getting back together.

Read more articles from Kristan by visiting the Kristan Reed archive page.

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Comments (104) Latest comment 5 years ago

Comments threads automatically close after 30 days, but please feel free to continue chatting on the forum!

  • ralphwolfenstein #1 7 years ago

    So, better than Halo…

  • ralphwolfenstein #2 7 years ago

    oh, yeah - FIRST!

    :p

  • Milk #3 7 years ago

    (almost) FIRST!11!1!111!!

  • statix101 #4 7 years ago

    I see they've left enough space for loads of adverts on the new site..:))

  • gylo #5 7 years ago

    EG rises from the dead!

  • oceanmotion #6 7 years ago

    Nice review. Hopefully it arrives early this week. Site is yuck so far. I will give it time though.

  • #7 7 years ago

    BETTER THAN GT4 !

  • Hench #8 7 years ago

    The site is back. Nice job.

  • WoodenSpoon #9 7 years ago

    New comments section looks prety good!

    I don't think I could go back to racing without force feedback since GT4 though.

  • NAC #10 7 years ago

    Well Done on the new site guys, looking nice. So i will get to the point is it better than GT4? go on put us out of our misery.

  • Feanor #11 7 years ago

    GT 4 got 7/10 I think, so have a look at Eurogamer's review.

  • space_ace #12 7 years ago

    i told you...

  • Eighthours #13 7 years ago

    So, better than GT4 then in your opinion?

    Interesting that you didn't mention the AI once. Strange, since this is one of the big advantages it has over GT4. So do you think the AI's good, bad or indifferent?

  • #14 7 years ago

    They didn't have the same guy reviewing the two games though. SHAMEFUL.

  • Scimarad #15 7 years ago

    I see IGN described the graphics as 'good but not great' - I assume this is a tad misleading;-)

    *sigh* I can't really afford this but it's pretty hard to resist...

  • Darren #16 7 years ago

    IGN did describe the graphics as good rather than great but then contradicted themselves by giving them 9/10 at the end of the view!!! Duh and, indeed, duh! lol

  • IronGiant #17 7 years ago

    No 60fps then ;P

  • krudster #18 7 years ago

    D'oh...that's what happens when you write reviews at five in the AM. Yes...AI was outstanding for the most part. They really react brilliantly to you, not simply ramming your off *their* racing line, and instead you can drive like an absolute git and block them off time and again. Likewise, trying to overtake them with risky driving is also handled superbly. I'd say the AI is one area where Forza absolutely *pisses* on GT4.

  • MikeP #19 7 years ago

    Loved PGR and the Gran Turisimo series, and I'm glad that the X-Box has finally got a game that combines (by the sounds of things) the best bits of both of them.

    Like the redesign as well, although the banner placement is a bit cack-handed.

  • spindizzy #20 7 years ago

    Nice review. This game is *seriously* tempting me to get an XBox.... if only so many of my friends weren't selfishly getting married I'd be able to afford one no probs!

  • raikov #21 7 years ago

    Awesome, and there's me thinking I should get rid of my Xbox since there was nowt coming out!

  • Vin #22 7 years ago

    Sold, baby!

  • O-Fox #23 7 years ago

    Is this better than Project Gotham 2?

  • bloodflowers #24 7 years ago

    Why is Forza on the Xbox only able to push 30fps (most of the time, sometimes less) when GT4 on the less powerful PS2 is hitting 60? Lazy.

  • #25 7 years ago

    Because the two games are not one and the same, douchebag.

  • DB2k #26 7 years ago

    glad i just preordered it today then. I wasn't going to since I haven't got a way to play it yet but i might bodge something to make it run on my LCD monitor until I order a nice big screen.. or maybe I'll put the xbox n the lounge and use the big tv in there.

    either way it looks great

  • Nemesis #27 7 years ago

    Sold!

    /is broke again

  • weblaus #28 7 years ago

    Uuuh... okay, I have a rather different opinion on Forza (based on some 20+ hours play time with the final boxed retail copy), most of which could be considers a matter of taste.

    But two things mentioned really, really grate on me:

    1) To compare the awesome and beautyful graphics of RalliSport 2 with Forza comes close to an insult to the former. Forza looks decent (banging on about HDTV virtually no one can use in PAL-land anyway doesn't count), but that's it. And that's on 30 fps (or actually 25 fps if you run in widescreen thanks to a bug most likely) and with several compromises including sluggish reflections (comparable to the first Gotham). I really can't see how anyone can get worked about the graphics, even the notoriously fanboyish IGN failed to do so (of course, that didn't stop them from giving a 9 in the end anyway).

    2) The opponent AI is plain and simply evil. Yeah, they're somewhat less idiotic drones compared to GT4, but they're very much like the XBL player you don't want to meet: They DO ram you off the ideal line regularly and they DO slam in your back happily to spin you out or stuff you in a hairpin corner quite frequently. And that's no isolated incident, I've spoken to a lot of people online who noticed this as well. Once agin, I have to refer to the IGN review which summed up that fact pretty well.

    Oh, and the drivatar is indeed just crap: What's the use of an AI substitute that at best drives as well as you do, can't be influenced during (non-fastforwardable) races, costs you lots of money when activated and doesn't gain experience from participating in races? Bleh.

    That said, Forza is a very good first try and the game to go for if you want to play online, but it's just not the best racing-game ever or even close.

  • Burton2000 #29 7 years ago

    wats happened to all the stuff at the bottom with all the stats of it and wheres blerk??

  • chronom4n #30 7 years ago

    the website has been well redesigned. the font at last is good so i do not have to increase the font size in anyway. as for the game, i think the only thing that ms have done is not implementing force feedback or making a steering wheel to use with forza. additionally, friday is when i get my copy and i will spend all of the morning playing this game and then i will be able to finally see if there is a racing sim available to better gt4. The review does not make clear if the AI is better and i was surprised that the reviewer decided to spend more letters telling us about the music then he did about the AI. Nonetheless it is about time that there was a game that i can spend on XBOX that is on a parrallel with GT4.

  • HarryB #31 7 years ago

    my only problem is the bloody corvette series in the beginners races.... i tuned a corvette c5 to 800hp and its just uncontrollable... it doesnt brake... it doesnt corner.. it just smashes walls..

    however, i need it that powerful since in qualifying im still estimated 2nd place!! ARGHHH!!!!!

    apart from that.... ROXOR!

  • #32 7 years ago

    "wheres blerk?"

    He died last week. No one cared.

  • Martin #33 7 years ago

    I agree with everything in the review so there's not much I can add except perhaps that another neat little detail that I like is how the sound of your car changes as you increase the horsepower. Made my Saab 9-3 Viggen sound like a real Viggen. ;)

    No matter if you you're not into racing sims you should play this - it really is bloody brilliant. I used to think that nothing could top Burnout 3.

    I was wrong.

  • Martin #34 7 years ago

    The opponent AI is plain and simply evil. Yeah, they're somewhat less idiotic drones compared to GT4, but they're very much like the XBL player you don't want to meet: They DO ram you off the ideal line regularly and they DO slam in your back happily to spin you out or stuff you in a hairpin corner quite frequently.

    Of course they do - they wan't to win. I like it as it keeps me on my toes and gets my blood boiling.

    my only problem is the bloody corvette series in the beginners races.... i tuned a corvette c5 to 800hp and its just uncontrollable... it doesnt brake... it doesnt corner.. it just smashes walls..

    Well, that's what happens when you put 800 HP into a Corvette - believe me. :)

  • Shinzou #35 7 years ago

    Best xbox game evah?
    Sold!

  • Shivoa #36 7 years ago

    Damn it! I was looking forward to this being crap so I didn't have to do a PGR and give up a couple of months to serious playtime and then online nonsense.

    /orders

    Oh, and where are the specs sheet at the bottom now? widescreen/16:9/dolby/60Hz support options list?

  • Shivoa #37 7 years ago

    Ah, clicky button away. Got it

  • Rusta #38 7 years ago

    Weblaus, what do you think is the best racing game out then? not having a dig just you sound like you don't think much of Forza, and I'm interested why, as I'm contemplating buying this game.

    PGR2 is fantastic, so I'm happy if there is a new rac sim on offer, more fun for me!

    oh sod it I'm sold, wheres my card!

  • #39 7 years ago

    Finally something to stop the PS2 fanboys playing the "but the PS2 has got Gran Turismo so nerr" trump card! Well done M$!

  • weblaus #40 7 years ago

    I don't care what other reviews might say, I've been bumped off the road without having done anything at all to warrant it often enough to know that it's happening regularly - it's especially lovely when you get a tap right at the start to spin out. I think it's pretty funny to defend this behaviour when the AI does it considereing human players are usually scoffed at for playing unfair.

    As for what I consider better racing games, at least RalliSport 2 and the god-like Gotham 2 definitely are better packages all round. And while I'm no big fan of GT4, the offline part of Forza just isn't better (and looks less impressive). Of course I know Xbox (only, most likely) fans don't want to hear this so therefore it can't be true.
    Edited by 1 at 09/05/05 @ 21:25

  • mcmonkeyplc #41 7 years ago

    I will resist for a month! I must resist!

  • Eighthours #42 7 years ago

    And while I'm no big fan of GT4, the offline part of Forza just isn't better (and looks less impressive). Of course I know Xbox (only, most likely) fans don't want to hear this so therefore it can't be true.

    You see, EG? You see? THIS is a perfect example of why you need a rolleyes emoticon. ;)

  • asphaltcowboy #43 7 years ago

    Can't wait for this! Unfortunately, if I order it now, I'll fail my exams! :(
    Edited by 1 at 09/05/05 @ 22:28

  • unwashed! #44 7 years ago

    I don't care what other reviews might say, I've been bumped off the road without having done anything at all to warrant it often enough to know that it's happening regularly - it's especially lovely when you get a tap right at the start to spin out. I think it's pretty funny to defend this behaviour when the AI does it considereing human players are usually scoffed at for playing unfair.

    As for what I consider better racing games, at least RalliSport 2 and the god-like Gotham 2 definitely are better packages all round. And while I'm no big fan of GT4, the offline part of Forza just isn't better (and looks less impressive). Of course I know Xbox (only, most likely) fans don't want to hear this so therefore it can't be true.

    I agree that PGR2 and RSC2 are both excellent games, but I feel the need to point out that the AI in PGR2 could be randomly evil for no reason. I'm stuck with some of the later Nurburgring races because I just get punted offthe track.

  • MrGrumpy.au #45 7 years ago

    Great review Kristan, this game is just quite amazing.

    Here's some customised liveries, just to show what people have been coming up with in Forza's customisation mode.

    http://tabwin.com/forza.h tm

    Drivatars rock for racing against! BTW :) (At least well trained ones, lol)

    Edit:
    Official Drivatar Site if anyone wants to read about how it all works:
    http://www.research.microsoft.com/mlp/Forza/default.htm

    Cheers
    Edited by 2 at 10/05/05 @ 05:22

  • Scimarad #46 7 years ago

    tbh, I've heard a lot of people saying the things Weblaus just posted so I'm starting to having second thoughts about Forza. I think I'll wait for a while...

    I had the the same thing with PGR2 - The offline games is just not as good as the reviews made it out to be.
    Edited by 1 at 10/05/05 @ 07:22

  • bionutz #47 7 years ago

    Soon on PC, I hope?

  • Genji #48 7 years ago

    AHAHAHAHA, PC

    *wipes tear*

  • YoYo #49 7 years ago

    Personally, I have to say that I usually, (although not always) find the EG reveiws spot on. Lets bloody hope so in this case as that must be one of the most positive reviews I've ever read on here!

    I will be getting this and I do hope its this good!

  • LiquidViolence #50 7 years ago

    One thing that bugs me (with this and GT), where's the in car view? And I mean a proper in car view.
    Driving simulator pffffffffffft.

  • bivith #51 7 years ago

    "whether you should be hitting the gas (green), easing off it (yellow), or braking (red)."

    Oh well! That's us colour blind gamers screwed then ;)

  • symmetry #52 7 years ago

    Ohhh, snazzy.

  • markypants #53 7 years ago

    I must say, I'm a bit surprised. Not by the review, but because I had heard that the demo that has been doing the rounds was a bit poo. It seems that they have turned it around for the final release.

    In GAME on Saturday I got given a demo disc with Forza/Outrun 2/PGR2 demos on. Is the Forza demo on that disc the final build?

    Anyway, I'm glad the review is positive, I was a tad disappointed by GT4, it didn't seem to progress the genre in any way, and I hope that Forza with its online presence and damage modelling will mean better things for driving games in the future.

    M

  • Graeme_N #54 7 years ago

    For me, Forza has just come out too late. I have far less time to play games than I did when I was a student, and I've already sunk so much time into GT4 that I don't really want to start another epic driving game.

    Which is a pity, because it sounds like Forza has addressed many of GT4's shortcomings, with better customisation, better AI and the inclusion damage modelling (I try to keep it clean in GT4, but every time the going gets tough I end up just punting my opponents off the track). GT4 has more cars, but that's only because it included every Nissan Skyline since the late 60s (and how many of us really care?), and Forza has Ferraris and Porsches, which no driving sim should be without. Forza's online modes mean nothing to me, because I don't have broadband at home.

    I've only played the demo of Forza that comes with Jade Empire (I don't know how early a build it is), and I wasn't at all impressed with the graphics, they weren't a patch on GT4's. I also ended up driving like a complete monkey, probably due to the fact that I'm not used to using the Xbox triggers for accelerating and braking, but the car seemed very difficult to control (I was using an Impreza STI with no assists on, which I can handle quite easily in GT4, also without assists). Maybe it was because of the early build, maybe unfamiliarity with the controls, but I wasn't particularly impressed. What did impress me was the time I lost control and spun out at the top of the corkscrew at Laguna Seca, and the car following me braked to a standstill to avoid me (in GT4 they would have just slammed into me). Other people in the forums seem to suggest the computer will often just bump you off, but just from the demo I thought the AI was streets ahead of GT4's.

    Maybe I'll pick it up six months or a year down the line when I've exhausted GT4 and feel the need for another driving "sim".

  • groovychainsaw #55 7 years ago

    I thought the demo was pretty poor to be honest, really disliked the handling model - is it in any way comparable to the finished article? I am being tempted by being able to create my own livery, but I just bought outrun 2 to fix my racing needs (£7.96 from amazon!!)

  • zErOb_cOOl #56 7 years ago

    That wasn't a review of the game, so much as a ritual bumming of it, if I'm not mistaken.

    I noticed the review went into great detail about how you should play your career mode (thought this was a review, not a players guide) but practically ignored what actual proper modifications you can do to your car, apart from saying you can get "engine power upgrades".

    And follow a line around the track (ok, wow, it changes colour) is described as "One of Forza's great innovations"?! Even the oldest F1 game I have (F1 GP2 on PC) has this option. Besides, you are meant to learn racing lines for yourself.

    The graphics. EuroGamer say they are great, every other reviewer and most people on forums (including this one) say they are nowhere near as good as GT4's. They mentioned it runs at 30fps in the review, and then, instead of mentioning that the game's closest competitor runs at 60fps (GT4), they say "Burnout 3"?! Ok its a great game, but not a good comparison. Have EG been slipped a couple of quid under the table by Microsoft or something? Besides, Polyphony Digital would have squeezed something spectacular out of the PS2, if they had considered 30fps to be an acceptable frame rate. This gets overlooked ALL THE TIME.

    Forza lacks rallying which wasn't mentioned, it has rubber-band AI if you get too far ahead of the race, and most of all I feel Forza attracts the 'Favour-the-underdog' syndrome much more than it deserves.
    Edited by 1 at 10/05/05 @ 10:28

  • Derblington #57 7 years ago

    Zerob - have you played this yet or are you just gutted it scored better than GT4?

  • zErOb_cOOl #58 7 years ago

    I've played a demo of it round a mates house. Don't know what verison it was though. Prob an old one as I wasn't impressed with the handling.

    My problem isn't just with the game, its with the "review", as it makes out the game has no down sides. The game that can do no wrongs. The game that has a holy glow. I'm surprised a religion hasn't sprung up already to worship the game on a twice daily basis, if its as good as the review says.

    Its nothing to do with what GT4 got either. I've learned that, unless an overwhelming majority of reviews say a game is good, they should not be believed, as there are bias reviews out there. Besides, I expected GT4 to score lower, as reviewers seem to treat marking video games like school children, "its not how good it is, its how much you've improved", and I'll admit, GT4 hasn't really moved on much since GT3 in a big enough way. But that doesn't go to say its a less than awesome game.
    Edited by 2 at 10/05/05 @ 11:43

  • PhatCat #59 7 years ago

    No, that is HL2

  • zErOb_cOOl #60 7 years ago

    "No, that is HL2"

    Exactly. But that recieved lower than expected scores simply as it was hyped to death and was a huge disappointment, as it was very similar to the first. I'm sorry to say, and this is the truth, but I don't like Halo. In fact, ALL FPS games simply bore me. Played too many and there are only so many bad guys you can point and shoot at before getting bored. I know you can say similar things about a lot of games but all FPS simply bore me.

    But, thats not the point. A lot of people think Halo 1&2 are awesome games. So thats what counts. And the second is no less brilliant than the first.

  • Rusta #61 7 years ago

    lol scimirad if you didn't like PGR2 then you obvouisly don't like driving sims.

    Zerob_cool you stick to loving GT4 and leave the xbox owners alone :)
    Edited by 1 at 10/05/05 @ 11:58

  • zErOb_cOOl #62 7 years ago

    He he, ok.

    //Takes PS2 off pause. Keeps racing.

  • LiquidViolence #63 7 years ago

    Zerob, I think a key bit you missed about the racing line was the word 'Dynamic'.
    " Usefully, it's not simply a generic 'best racing line' suggestion that applies to each track, but will actually change to suit whatever car you're in at the time as well."

    see.

    Still no in car view though.

    (I know that quote doesnt actually say 'dynamic' in it)
    Edited by 1 at 10/05/05 @ 12:14

  • zErOb_cOOl #64 7 years ago

    Yeah it changes due to your car. If you choose a slower car, you can usually take a sharper line around the corner. Thats just obvious. My point is showing the racing line is not an "innovative" idea like the review says. Anyway, small stupid point on my part. It doesn't really matter.

  • Snooz #65 7 years ago

    I love PGR2 and GT1 and 2, I don't have the ps2. Anyways, the fullversion of Forza is definetly a contender for the best xbox driving sim. I've was bumped in the rear at a hairpin ( might been breaking too early), only to see the next round that the AI-driver behind did his best to avoid me and ended up backwards(porche) in the sandtrap.

    Other things I've noticed:
    - When having the obviously best car in the pack I've not experienced rubberband AI. Although I've been expecting it.

    - The AI often run each other of the track. And even get stuck in eachothers.

    - The brake discs get other calipers and larger diametre when you upgrade. Impressive detail.

    - The car reflection is nice but laggy and slow.

    - Few replay cameraangle options other than race-cams and one replay-cam. Why is there never a rewindbutton anymore? Does this require lots of memory or something?

    - Car damage is nice, and affects the steering and gearbox.

    - The framerate stutters a tad in replays, doesn't bother me, but will most likely annoy some of you here.

    - Graphics are nice, but I've got for some reason troubles with seeing the turns in some tracks as Silverstone. Might be som focus effect or something, and for my likings the bumpercam makes the enteringpoints of turns hard to see.

    - The AI looks like a step in the right directions, they notice me when I'm close, and they do aggressive takeovers. Fun to watch at the straights.

    This is mostly what I've noticed a few hours into the game, barely scraping the surface. Hmmm... and I'm missing some shortcuts in the menus..

    Edit: Bæd inglish and missing words
    Edited by 2 at 10/05/05 @ 12:31

  • IronGiant #66 7 years ago

    Forza has an average score of 94 on metacritic from 22 different reviews so using your own logic Zerob the game is bloody brilliant.

  • SwedBear #67 7 years ago

    The graphics may not be as sharp as GT4 (and I spent whole evening yesterday recording a lap around Nürgburg ring with both in GT4 and Forza for a review) but I do not think that GT4 is that much better. The difference as I see when switching between the two games on my TV (28" widescreen Sharp) is that GT4 is more sharp and has much more vibrant colours. It does however suffer badly from aliasing and that is a pretty big issue to me.

    Forza has much more subdued softer colours. It does however not suffer from aliasing and thus is nicer to my eyes than GT4.

    Forza also has real shadows that you see on the car while GT4 has 2 modes: shadow or no shadow (meaning no separate shadows for trees etc.).

    The reflections on the cards from surrounding objects are cool in Forza although there are times when you clearly see that they are running at only 15 fps (mainly when there's tons of trees reflecting on the car). The overall effect is really cool.

    GT4 has nicer graphics but I still think Forza's graphics are great. Tonight I'm gonna load up PGR2 and RSC2 to compare.

    Something I did notice when driving my Mitsubishi Eclipse GT around the track was that the sound in GT4 is puny compared to the one in Forza. in Forza the carsound has real omph while it is really annoyingly high in GT4.

    So far I definitely prefer Forza over GT4 even though GT4 still is a great game.

  • Feanor #68 7 years ago

    But, IronGiant, all 22 of the web-sites were paid off just like Eurogamer was! ;)

  • zErOb_cOOl #69 7 years ago

    No IronGiant and Feanor. You are picking at parts of my argument and not quite understanding it.

    Did all 22 Forza reviews say it was flawless and mention no downsides? No they didn't. Some of them were actually reviews.

    My point was that some reviews of Forza are 100% positive and some are a bit negative, and some are giving it far too much credit by simply focusing purely on its good points (nothing about low fps & jerky graphics etc). I didn't just say reviews anyway, I said forums too in my first post. There are very mixed views about Forza on forums, even downsides pointed out by people that prefer Forza to GT4, that reviews brush over.

    A game like God of War has very few downsides/ poorly implemented aspects, as well as games such as Halo; they serve their genre to almost complete perfection. Both these games revieve practically 100% praise in both reviews and forums.

    I never said GT4 was the best racer ever either, and it certainly too has its flaws (AI.) However, I do believe it is better, or at least on par with Forza, and I feel Forza is being highly overrated (for the reasons I stated in my 1st post on this article.)

    My point, simply put, is that this EG review is not in line with other reviews in terms of mentioning its downsides. Thats why I said "unless an overwhelming majority of reviews say a game is good, they should not be believed" Just trying to say there is a noticable difference between how positive some reviews are toward the game compared to others.
    Edited by 1 at 10/05/05 @ 14:33

  • zErOb_cOOl #70 7 years ago

    Because some reviews are overrating it simply as they are (seemingly) relieved the XBox finally has a GT-style racer!! Exactly, the whole concept is taken straight from GT and fiddled with a bit.

    And then they stick it in a few more times because its the first in the series, the first attempt.

    And I'm quite capable of reading what people have said about the final version thank you.
    Edited by 1 at 10/05/05 @ 14:43

  • Putty-Man #71 7 years ago

    One thing reviews dont seem to mention in teh GT4 vs. Forza debate is that of controllers. Some say u need a wheel to really play these games but for those who dont, Forza has a big advantage here.

    The analogue trigger buttons on the xbox controller give far more scope for throttle movement than the thin PS2 triggers. I find this quite a big difference when playing driving games, esp Forza, on xbox.

  • zErOb_cOOl #72 7 years ago

    Yeah, but you could twist that around and say GT4 has a better wheel, an awesomely good one.

    Kind of true about the triggers, the Dreamcast had them too. But I found they were actually annoying for most games as shoulder buttons. And for games like MSR on the DC, I didn't half press the triggers at all.

  • Yaz #73 7 years ago

    "My point was that some reviews of Forza are 100% positive and some are a bit negative, and some are giving it far too much credit by simply focusing purely on its good points (nothing about low fps & jerky graphics etc). I didn't just say reviews anyway, I said forums too in my first post. There are very mixed views about Forza on forums, even downsides pointed out by people that prefer Forza to GT4, that reviews brush over."

    But atleast they're talking about the FINAL version of the game, not the demo.

    Yes, some people on forums talk about the downsides, but the opinion of almost all (which you conveniently ignore) is that the released game is much MUCH better than the demo!

    So until you've actually played Forza for real, your claims that the game is overated is simply based on ignorance, and not on personal experience.

  • zErOb_cOOl #74 7 years ago

    Yes, yes it is MUCH better than the demo. Gawd how much longer must I spend trying to get people to realise my point!

    I'm not saying "the Forza demo is crap and so is the final versoin", or anything of the sorts!!! I'm simply saying its not as groundbreakingly, can't put a foot wrong, superb as this review makes out. There is practically nothing negative said about this game at all. This negatove things that are said, are in fact even turned around into positive things FFS!

    I then want on to say (gawd I'm even going into my history of previous posts here as some people can't read them) unless all Forza reviews make it out to be this perfect, then the game should not be believed to be as great as is made out. IGN even said the graphics are 'good, but not great' which contradicts the EuroGamer review which stated "it gets everything spot on in that department" when referring to the graphics.

    Also, people on this forum have said things like it runs at '25fps in widescreen', 'I'd take GT over this', 'not the bast racing game ever or even close', 'And while I'm no big fan of GT4, the offline part of Forza just isn't better (and looks less impressive)'.

    So, other reviews and people's own comments after playing the game contradict this particular review. So all I'm saying is that its not as good as some reviews make it out to be.

    I think you may be the ignorant one.
    Edited by 2 at 10/05/05 @ 15:17

  • Yaz #75 7 years ago

    ^^^ Gee, I seem to have touched a nerve there.

    Reviews are simply opinions, and so making a big issue out of this one review is nonsence. Like most reviews, it consists of text AND a score, both of which should be taken into account. The score was 9/10 in case you didn't notice, which is less than some of the reviews which pointed out the negative issues you want to see. It was not 10/10, so I simply fail to see how they're overating the game.

    What may have been graphical issues for some were obviously not issues for others, and so why should the reviewer state problems which didn't exist for HIM? Just to satisfy you perhaps?

    If you have issues with the written review itself, that's fine, but as I said already, you haven't played the final game, therefore you're in no position to claim that "Forza is being overated". When you've played the final game, then you're more than welcome to make such claims, since it will be based upon your OWN experiences.

    "I think you may be the ignorant one"

    Oh please, I said your viewpoint was based upon ignorance, NOT that YOU were ignorant personally. Big difference! I have Forza on order and so I haven't played it yet either. I'm as ignorant of the final game as you are, even with all the reviews I've read (and I've read quite a lot). But unlike yourself, I'm not going to dismiss features like the dynamic racing line, or judge so-called 'issues' with the graphics, or (incorrectly) claim it has "rubber-band" AI, until I've seen it for myself.
    Edited by 3 at 10/05/05 @ 16:23

  • Putty-Man #76 7 years ago

    "Yeah, but you could twist that around and say GT4 has a better wheel, an awesomely good one."

    The point of my post was that for the majority of players who just use a pad, the xbox (hence Forza) has a big advantage of much more accurate throttle control.

    You'd do a lot of twisting to turn this into GT4 having a better wheel.

  • zErOb_cOOl #77 7 years ago

    O......K. Don't know if you are misunderstanding me on purpose but all I'm saying is there is a flip-side to your argument; Forza = "Better" pad (argubaly, as the PS2 pad sits in your hands so much better anyway) GT4 = Better wheel (definately).

    Wasp, you always argue with me as you are an XBox fanboi, but I listen to your opinion. Why do you discount mine? You should value everybody's opinion. If you are selective about accepting opinions gracefully (not agreeing), there is not much point of a forum now is there? (you only hear what you want to.)
    Edited by 1 at 10/05/05 @ 17:01

  • Martin #78 7 years ago

    It'd be fun if Microsoft had called this one Great Turning or Gravel Tormentor or Gorza Totorsport.

    I bet there'd be a lot less comments if everyone had to write out the full name everytime they mentioned one game or the other. ;)

    As far as the sound goes - I love it! No other game has come close to it.

    I got tired of being whipped in a hatchback race last night so I brought out the big guns and spent some 25.000 CR on upgrading my Saab 9-3. Dear lord does it sound evil now!

    I get shivers down my spine everytime I race it. And it beats pretty much any competition I get (w/o any rubberbanding AI, quite the contrary).
    Edited by 1 at 10/05/05 @ 17:05

  • IronGiant #79 7 years ago

    Why are you so intent on pointing out any flaws in the game? There is no perfect game, or at least very few that could be considered close to perfection.. EG scored it a deserved 9/10, same as nearly every other review. Your so called opinion is just an attempt to slate the game at every possible opportunity, stop being so pathetic.

  • Feanor #80 7 years ago

    Please shut up about Forza until you actually play it. And if you're never going to play it, then just shut up.

    And FFS, 30 fps is not low enough to be any sort of problem.
    Edited by 1 at 10/05/05 @ 17:37

  • Scimarad #81 7 years ago

    " lol scimirad if you didn't like PGR2 then you obvouisly don't like driving sims. "

    I did like it, I just wasn't wildly enthusiastic about it and I DO prefer GT4.

    I think there's a wide streak of "If you disagree with me you're wrong!" running through this thread.

  • OnlyMe #82 7 years ago

    Since when did PGR2 become a racing simulator?

    And when did bashing Forza based on reviews become valid?

    How come Forza got 9/10 when GT4 got 8/10? Was this based on the fact that GT4 was the fourth of an already well established series while Forza is a new, surprisingly good franchise? Is really one game better than the other? I haven't played Forza nearly as much as GT4 yet, but I know already which one i prefer. HOWEVER, that is because I have a really good drivers seat and a Driving Force Pro setup in front of my TV, so GT4 gets the edge on the actual experience I get. I'm not entirely convinced on the physics in Forza either, the cars feel too stiff and lifeless. Damage doesn't really do anything, considering the excellent damage engine we get in TOCA already - which is miles better.

    I have a feeling GT5 will get my money over Forza 2 out of experience yet. But both games are really really good, one does things better than the other and vice versa. Though I still feel that GT4 has the edge that is missing in Forza. And really, the graphics aren't that great in Forza. In fact, I think GT4 have better.

  • Rusta #83 7 years ago

    The edge for me is the online play, I hardly touch single player unless its to unlock stuff.

    Thats why I've gone for the xbox over ps2

  • Trowel #84 7 years ago

    Starting to get futher into it and becoming more and more impressed. Course design is excellent, particularly love the point-to-point downhill races :)

    One thing I can't stand is when you're moving between cars on the selection screen, the stats at the top take just half a second or so to adapt, so you can't quickly flick about to compare.

  • smelliot #85 7 years ago

    Here's hoping this game has no licence tests. If it has none this will truly destroy my GT4 oriented mind.

    Good work Microsoft ^_^

  • MrGrumpy.au #86 7 years ago

    Some general things I've noticed having had it for a week now and I don't think I've even scratched the surface with it.

    1. This game also has brake wear, you literally have to pump the brakes on the straights in the longer races to keep them responsive (obviously the wear varies between caliper sizes and brake fluids used).

    2. You can revive worn/overheated tyres to get an extra lap or two out of them by controlling your pace (ie. let the cool down to a normal temperature).

    3. There is NO rubberbanding AI, they can slipstream you but if they are out of your slipstream you'll need to make mistakes for them to catch you.

    4. The AI will take defensive lines through corners (forcing you to go over/under) and will quite happily run two/three wide with you through corners with a little paint swapping. ;)

    ==EDIT==

    5. The car telemetry is just so comprehensive that it's hard to take it all in. I'm just used to Geoff Crammond's Grand Prix 2/3/4, GT3/4 style telemetry so it will take some time getting my head around it all. But it definately covers every aspect of the car you could ever want.

    ==END EDIT==

    This game is what I expected GT4 to be, simple as that. I still really enjoy GT4 even if it's not getting much play time at the moment.

    Cheers
    Edited by 7 at 11/05/05 @ 08:05

  • Genji #87 7 years ago

    Forget the scores. Just read the freaking reviews. The score doesn't matter for shit.

  • ralphwolfenstein #88 7 years ago

    wow

    played this at GameStars last year – didn’t like it

    played the demo two months ago – didn’t think it was much improved

    lost three hours of my life last night on the finished version until conscience dragged me to bed

    This game has definitely ‘come good’ in the last few months of development…

  • FooAtari #89 7 years ago

    I havent got the game yet, should come tomorrow.

    But here is my take on the graphics. Forza is better - here is why.

    GT4 in comparisson is very very bare. If you have seen the comparisson video at Laguna Seca you will know what I mean if not, take a look: http://movies.msxbox-wo rld.com/download_exclusive.php?id=1115282900&file=Forza_Vs_G T4.wmv

    For a start look at the track textures going into and through the corners.

    Just after the video starts when going down the main straight look down the right hand side, Forza is far more detailed, GT4 has a hill/bank and a couple of trees.

    After exiting the 3rd corner about 30secs into the video again look down the left, GT4 is completely bare of trackside obects and detail compared to Forza.

    When comming out of the 2nd last turn GT4 just looks bare and completely lacks detail again.

    When comming out of the last corner (1m:34) you can see right down the main straight, GT4 looks like most of the details and object have been ripped out. At no point during the lap does GT4 have more detail than Forza. And also if you have seen a lap around Laguna in real life Forza is very very authentic right down to the advertising and power lines above the track.
    Their is SO much more going on in Forza graphically, plus the fact their is two extra cars and 600 layers for each car. As an overall package Forza looks better than GT4.

    Forza looks like Laguna does in real life, GT4 does not.
    Forza v Real Laguna Pics: http: //www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,11410177

    Forza v Real Road Atlanta (i think) pics
    http://www.forzacentral.com/gallery/files/4/8/si m-forza-0387.jpg
    http://www.forzacentral.com/gallery/files/4/8/si m-forza-0388.jpg


    For thise reasons Forza is way ahead of GT4 for me in the graphics department. I will wait untill tomorrow before I comment on the physics and A.I. but from what I have read it is pretty damn good. Less face it as far as "racing" goes GT4 provides a pretty shallow experience with lifeless and basic A.I. A good "driving" sim it may be but its crap as far as racing goes. Basically GT 2 - 4 have been nothing more than full price expansion packs in my eyes. GT4 should have had so much more, but really the basic game has never chaned since GT1.

  • Yossarian #90 7 years ago

    zErOb_cOOl, Forza is just better than GT4. don't cry.

  • zErOb_cOOl #91 7 years ago

    "These is SO much more going on in Forza graphically"

    Yes there is. Its only been said about a thousand times that Forza has better track-side detail. And as a consiquence it runs at 30fps instead of 60fps.

    Forza also has sharp graphics (like on a PC) which is ok, but GT4 has organic, real looking graphics. Its not a case of whats there, so much as how it looks there.
    Edited by 1 at 11/05/05 @ 12:57

  • zErOb_cOOl #92 7 years ago

    I actually think this thread is pretty divided whether Forza is better than GT4 if you actually read it, so I don't know how you reached that conclusion Yossarian.

    And if you are thinking of referring to the review score, I think you'll find that this review mentions none of Forza's known bad points, and also reviews naturally mark GT4 down due to the lack of vast improvement since GT3.

  • Darren #93 7 years ago

    I personally think that Forza Motorsport looks nicer than Gran Turismo 4 even from the demo I played last year. GT4 looks at it's best in the replays where the soft focus effects blur out most of the awful aliasing and shimmering apparent when you play the game properly. Sure the cars look nice, but the backgrounds often look rough and the textures are drab and flat looking and the flickery backgrounds annoy after awhile. Yes, it looks good provided you don't look too closely...

    Forza on the other hand looks better when you DO look closely as there is an insane amount of detail not only on the cars with self-shadowing and the like, but also in the impressive backgrounds, which have next to no popup and a long draw distance (GT4 suffers from popup noticeably at times and uses 2D backgrounds to increase the sense of distance, i.e. the Grand Canyon level). Forza looks much better ingame than GT4 as the graphics are smoother and anti-aliased.

    I suppose it comes down to preference but I much prefer Forza's attention to detail over GT4's sharper less detailed look and the lower framerate doesn't bother me at all. I see that as a reasonable compromise for the all the lovely detail.

  • zErOb_cOOl #94 7 years ago

    Yes, well you keep telling yourself GameRankings.com is the ultimate test of a game. I have just said why reviews aren't the definitive word on whether a game is good or not; as they take onto account the improvement factor since the previous game in the series.

    Lets face it, if GT4 was the first in the GT series, it would score very highly indeed.

    Besides, I suppose at the end of the day its personal choice. No matter how good reviewers say a movie is, you might think it completely stinks. Kill Bill. Did reviewers like it? Hell yeah they did. Do I like Tarantino films? Yup. Did I like Kill Bill? Nope not really. Pretty average. So just because you like racing games, and reviews say its good, doesn't mean its good at all. If you like Forza then fair play though.

    Right from my first comment on this thread, my intent was not to go Forza-bashing but to point out that this review was unfairly focused on Forza's good points, and also that reviews can't alwas be believed, especially when there is a big difference in how positive they are towards a game, and there is conflicting information on forums.

    So please everybody, stop telling me how great Forza is. The 'review' did plenty of this on its own.

  • Putty-Man #95 7 years ago

    "I have just said why reviews aren't the definitive word on whether a game is good or not; as they take onto account the improvement factor since the previous game in the series.

    Lets face it, if GT4 was the first in the GT series, it would score very highly indeed."

    So just to put things in perspective then, GT3 got the highest rating of the Gran Turismo series on good old gamerankings.com, and it was obviously the 3rd generation of the game (still lower than Forza's score incidently).

  • zErOb_cOOl #96 7 years ago

    YES...............AND?............What is so hard to believe about that? The reviews (on average) thought GT3 improved vastly on the pervious 2 titles and so it gained the highest score. And GT4 improves on GT3, and is an even better incarnation of the series.

    and also.....JESUS TAP DANCING CHRIST. Somebody has managed to turn this into a GT4 vs Forza thing again! How many times must I say this (I thought I explained it very well in my previous post.) My only problem was with the review of Forza. I have just said all this in my previous post and will not extend my opinion any further! Go and play Forza if its so good, and stop provoking me.

    ***Edit***
    Also can you not see how scores for the GT series and Forza have panned out? (Why Forza scored higher that GT3)

    The first GT was good, but not perfect, so gained high marks for the concept, but lost marks on badly implemented aspects, so recieved an average score.

    GT2 and GT3 improved upon the first, but their scores were lowered as they were not the first games in the GT series, even though they are good improvements of the first game.

    Then GT4 comes along and loses all marks for originality, but again improves on GT3. All these improvements are effectively 'lost in translation' when it comes to review scores, but it doesn't mean the games don't contain vast improvements.

    In fact, it baffles me why Forza, a game that takes most of its ideas from GT4 (please don't argue with me on this, it obviously does), and adds a 'level up' game progression structure, has not been marked down on originality. Probably as its on the XBox and not PS2.
    Edited by 3 at 11/05/05 @ 16:47

  • Putty-Man #97 7 years ago

    Never said Forza was good, can't go and play it cos its not out yet, provoking you will do until then!

  • MrGrumpy.au #98 7 years ago

    I've come to the conclusion most PS2 owners must hate Rockstars latest GTA games with a passion as the PAL version is locked to 25 fps vs NTSC 30 fps (and there are alot of other PS2 titles that suffer the same fate), seeing as 30 fps in Forza isn't enough.

    The FPS of a game shouldn't be an argument unless it's really bad like Destruction Derby Arenas 5-50 fps greatness. LOL!

    /shakes head in disbelief
    /continues to do so...
    /head falls off..
    /plonk

    Cheers

  • zErOb_cOOl #99 7 years ago

    Yes but what game compares to GTA: San An and offers an alternative? Nothing. So were happy with that for now thank you :)

    With Forza you can opt to play GT4 instead.

    /Shakes head back at MrGrumpy
    /Head also falls off
    /Both heads lie on the floor facing each other, and we settle the argument with a staring contest

  • MrGrumpy.au #100 7 years ago

    ROFL!!

    zErOb_cOOl we'll just have to agree to disagree.

    And a great way to end the post too, top stuff.

    /Headless staring match ends in a nil-all draw and the crowd is bitterly dissapointed.
    /Walks home with head under shoulder...

    Cheers

  • zErOb_cOOl #101 7 years ago

    Heh, fair enough Wasp. Yeah I know what your saying about whether to buy the newer version or not, but it still means the newer version is better. I wasn't arguing that G4 is better than Forza, just trying to say why scores for GT4 are lower than you may expect (or not.) My beef is with the 100% positive points review, not the game. Anyway, fair doos.

  • The-Bodybuilder #102 7 years ago

    zerob_cool, are u the same zerob_cool that was bashing forza many months ago, BEFORE it was even released?
    Wow, I never knew fanboys could be so persistant.

  • Ranger101 #103 7 years ago

    FPS is not an important issue as long as the game doesn't stutter - which it can do for a game running from 20 fps to a game running at 120 fps. Forget about FPS - it's a stat used by Graphics card makers and engine writers to sell their shit.

    And I believe that when you compare two games that have similar gameplay, you have to give an edge to the game that not only addresses the AI issue, but also offers an extra gaming avenue: online.

    Had Polyponic got their netcode together with GT4, perhaps the argument would have been who's 9/10 review was better.

  • Yaz #104 7 years ago

    "zerob_cool, are u the same zerob_cool that was bashing forza many months ago, BEFORE it was even released?"

    Yep, it's the same sad person, and looking at his posts on the forum makes his comments here nonsence.

    He's a GT4 fanboy. That's the REAL reason he has problems with the Forza review (regardless of what he says here). He was hoping for a negative review, but instead it's positive, denying him an opportunity to post here with smug satisfaction that Forza isn't as good as everyone hoped.

    The review here (and practically everywhere else), has rated Forza equal to or higher than GT4. A bad time for GT4 fanboys. ;)

  • chronom4n #105 7 years ago

    i have to say that going by the way people are talking on the forums, i am really looking foward to Forza Motorsport. This is my personal opinion on FM, and it is this, it is everything the GT4,3,2,1 wanted to be. Quality AI, visual tune-ups, under the hood upgrades, literally everything that the GT franchise aimed to be. And for me I am tired of the things that GT is giving. I now have something to look forward to designing my own car, something that I WANTED SO BADLY ON GT4. i hope that i have not waffled. but bar the Force Feedback wheel, i I would say that FM's good points have really been what the GT franchise should have been from the get go.

  • zErOb_cOOl #106 7 years ago

    Where the deuce is the Forza competition winner listed?

  • Gareth.de #107 7 years ago

    Then GT4 comes along and loses all marks for originality, but again improves on GT3. All these improvements are effectively 'lost in translation' when it
    comes to review scores, but it doesn't mean the games don't contain vast improvements.

    No matter how many times you polish a turd, if something better comes along then that's just that. No amount of extra polish, no matter how lovingly it is applied to said turd, it will still just be a turd.

  • Les #108 7 years ago

    I think Forza Motorsport is the best thing that ever happened to Gran Turismo fans. GT is still the best looking, best sounding, most comprehensive and most realistic (handling of the cars) driving game there is. But in particular the AI is not sophisticated enough. I personally don't really care about damage to the vehicles. If it can't be made as realistic as the rest of the game, it should be left out, like Polyphony did. Online is also low on my list of priorities (as it is for the large majority of gamers), but reviewers, hardcore gamers that they are, almost always give extra marks for it (Halo 2 anyone?).

    With Forza, the guys at Polyphony Digital finally have to do more than creating a better looking and better sounding driving game, they also have to make sure it races great. I think GT fans in the end will only be better for it.

  • freedumb #109 7 years ago

    Probably as perfect as the technology (console, physics engine) allows at that time.

  • albundy #110 5 years ago

    Zero-whatever, you're an idiot. Give it up, Forza is better. At WORST, they're equal. Which, to use football jargon, leaves Forza as the happier manager at half-time. Forza was a debut. GT4 was the FOURTH game in its series. That Forza is at LEAST on a par with GT4 is poor, on Polyphony's part. VERY poor.