Final Fantasy X Comments by Tom Bramwell

I have not bought FFX because of the poor conversion. I am tempted to modify my PS2 to play imported NTSC games but am afraid that it will become damaged. Can anyone recommend me a good place to get my PAL PS2 modified to run NTSC games?

Stu, no I wasn't happy. When I initially got my PS2 I was eagerly looking foward to games such as MGS2, FFX, Wipeout, GT3, GTA3, but by the time they eventually showed up I'd kinda moved on.

Of the PS2 games I owned and played (quite a few) I only really enjoyed Jak and Daxter, GTA3 and SSX Tricky if I'm totally honest. MGS2 just didn't do it for me, Codex Flirting isn't my idea of fun! They should subtext the Codex with "Lines Guaranteed Not To Work On Laydeez" or "5000 Ways To Make Her Cringe"

I won't repurchase the PS2 just for FFX, I can't justify it.

See? Despite what is a cracking game, they've lost a punter. I wonder how many other people have given up knowing that they have to wait months to play the game they want to play (if they indeed get to play them at all!).

Sony, I think the PS2 is a cracking piece of kit, but frankly you can suck my lozenge.

Fusion - nip over to www.ntsc-uk.com, there's a discussion going on (PAL forum as I recall) on this very subject.

Others - it's a worthy site, for those interested in learning more about importing.

Borders don't really matter in terms of whether you enjoy a game or not. Until such time as I can scrape together the cash for a new widescreen telly I'll happily put up with watching DVDs letterbox stylee. It's no great hardship on a 21" TV, although on a portable I might have a different opinion.

I will have to buy this game pretty soon...

[terminalterror] - 17-Jun-2002
Remembering settings for individual programs seems a bit far fetched to me, how can the moniter tell what program you are running? It just outputs pixels. What moniters should do though is remember settings for specific resolutions, so if you have games on different resolutions, you might think that your moniter is checking the game, but then I might be wrong and you might have a weirdly knowledgable moniter

Yep you are right, I just checked it out to see if that's the case and it is. It did fool me though to believe it checks the game.

Borders don't really matter in terms of whether you enjoy a game or not. Until such time as I can scrape together the cash for a new widescreen telly I'll happily put up with watching DVDs letterbox stylee. It's no great hardship on a 21" TV, although on a portable I might have a different opinion.


But the point people miss is that these borders are just as visible on a widescren TV. Don't for a second think that this is the same as widescreen films.

I am tempted to modify my PS2 to play imported NTSC games

Make sure you get one of the chips that will play original imported games. Most of them won't - you would have to copy the games in order to run them. Off the top of my head I think Messiah and Origa chips do this, Neo series don't. Haven't gotten my PS2 modified yet, so can't help with the 'where' thing. Holding out until I can find somewhere that'll fit a Messiah for me. :-)

About a decade ago, gamers were having the same argument over borders. Except then, the market leader was Nintendo, the dominant machine was Super Nintendo / Famicom and everyone was jumping up and down about the poor Pal translation of StreetFighter II Turbo.

Not much change there then (despite advancing technology).

"Holding out until I can find somewhere that'll fit a Messiah for me. :-)" - If you find someone Blerk could you let me know?

Is there just the one Messiah chip or do you need a different chip for Jap or US consoles?

If you find someone Blerk could you let me know?

Sure. I was hoping to find somewhere local so I could drop it in/pick it up rather than trust my machine to the piss-poor postal service, so if I find anywhere it's likely to be Leeds area.


Is there just the one Messiah chip or do you need a different chip for Jap or US consoles?

There are different ones for PAL/NTSC. Check out Lik-Sang - they have versions for each type of PS2. But it's a bit much to send your PS2 to Hong Kong to get it modded. :-)

Yep you are right, I just checked it out to see if that's the case and it is. It did fool me though to believe it checks the game

/me bathes in rightness

I am a little pissed off at my new GF3 though, as there is no way of connecting it to my Hardware DVD decoder card that came with my PC, so although I can watch in software and the picture is good, I no longer have Dolby Digital 5.1, aaaargh

By the way the NEO4/4.5, Messiah and origa chips all play original imports.

Are you sure about that? Everything I've read says that Neo series chips can only play PSOne original imports, not PS2.

What are 'bowlers shows'?

Just to add a bit more fuel to the fire.. I know someone who has just fitted a Messiah to a v3 PAL and can no longer play r1 DVDs using Datel's Region X (keycard version) (r2's play just fine). Apparently, someone else mentioned there was a boot disc to get around this.

I can't believe people are only talking about the borders, the fact that the game is in 50hz refresh rate absolutly kills the graphics too, all the light surfaces shimmer and flicker terribly, totally ruins the games graphics and visual impact. Tyr playing the 60hz version and you'll see everything solid and still - no flicker or squashed graphics. up yours square. lazy bastards

Borders are a byproduct of Square being a bunch of lazy fookers. Flickering displays are inherent to PAL and there isn't a great deal you can do about this. To be honest, I don't really notice it, but I know some people do (the same people find normal TV viewing to be the same).

flickering graphics are a result of images being displayed at 50hz, I very much do notice it in games, but not on normal TV.

But with a widescreen TV (or mine at least), you can set it in 'zoom' mode, which makes a 4:3 letterboxed image (or PAL game with big borders) fill a 16:9 set. OK, you lose vertical resolution (which I why I prefer anamorphic prints/games) but at least you get a full screen of game.

It doesn't excuse developers from converting to PAL properly, of course (and I wiah that it was a Sony requirement to make all games have a 16:9 anamorphic option) but it will (have to) do.

"with a widescreen TV (or mine at least), you can set it in 'zoom' mode, which makes a 4:3 letterboxed image (or PAL game with big borders) fill a 16:9 set"

Yup, that's how I played Devil May Cry, which (being a Capcom game) had hulking great borders on the PAL version as well.

but I think it's going too far to boycott the thing and/or say it's somehow a less fantastic game just because of the borders.

The game content itself is as ace as it can be. However, the product as a whole is in a really miserable state to be honest. When I shell out 63€ to get a game, I want to buy a product by a company that has the competence and service mind to make sure that they provide their customers with a acceptable conversion. Square Europe however, possess nothing of this.

FYI: The American release does have borders. It's not really that noticeable but it does. I'm sure they made them extra big for the European release, but they do (however small they are) exist on the American NTSC release as well.

Blitzball has got to be the worst FF side game ever and Tidus has got to be the most annoying lead in an FF game. Whinny voice and those clothes! Is there anything masculine about wearing plastik-like yellow pieces in your clothing?

Fun game though.

Unless you got a 29" and above TV screen then having those huge borders is really annoying. Now if you and your friends have huge 40" TVs then surely you wouldn't have a problem and neither would I if I had a huge TV but on my 21" TV its really bad.

My tv is by no means huge. However, I don't spend hours moaning about a couple of inches of borders. Yes, it's annoying, but after one minute I totally forgot about it and it never bothered me once.

- borders
- 6+ months delay compared to the US
- extra price tag (€ 69 compared to €59 for other PS2 games rrp)

So we shouldn't buy an excellent game because we Europeans like being stubborn and pathetic? Good to hear it. Write and complain to Square instead of proposing ridiculous boycotts, and considering FFX is already top of the software charts you're a bit late.

They DONT KNOW that they're playing games 20% slower than they should be!

Ever thought why? Maybe because it doesn't bother them or disturb their gameplay?

I really can't believe you're not going to buy the game just because of the conversion. Unless you're paranoid it will never bother you.

When there are enough great games on the market, which have a proper PAL conversion and do not cost 10 Euros more than FFX, then why the heck should I buy it? If music CDs in the area where you live would play 20% slower and would have static noise, would you buy it just because you never heard the original version and "it is good music nonetheless"? Would you go to the cinemas if the movies had big black borders and everyone moved real slooow? Would you buy a book that missed a few pages?

Then why do you tolerate similar things in video games? I just don't get it. One has to be very desperate to buy such a shitty conversion, imo.

edit: "Write and complain to Square instead of proposing ridiculous boycotts"

Why should I? I just don't buy it, basta. If everyone did like me, it wouldn't be in the top ten of the software charts. Yes, I like Immanuel Kant.

On a sidenote, I couldn't care less about FFX and probably wouldn't even buy it if it had the best PAL conversion ever. ;)

I have written to Square Europe many times, but they have failed to give an answer. Perhaps they cannot string together a real reason for the bad PAL FFX conversion other than for the reason of lazy programming.

[UncleLou] - 17-Jun-2002
When there are enough great games on the market, which have a proper PAL conversion and do not cost 10 Euros more than FFX, then why the heck should I buy it? If music CDs in the area where you live would play 20% slower and would have static noise, would you buy it just because you never heard the original version and "it is good music nonetheless"? Would you go to the cinemas if the movies had big black borders and everyone moved real slooow? Would you buy a book that missed a few pages?

Then why do you tolerate similar things in video games? I just don't get it. One has to be very desperate to buy such a shitty conversion, imo.


Great point. It seems that a lot of people don't get it that we are treated as inferior customers while we pay more.

Square Europe don't like replying to anything do they? I wrote them AGES ago, about the time when they released FF8, Vagrant Story, Saga Frontier 2 and Front Mission 3 (all crap conversions too I might add), to ask them whether they'd release Chrono Cross or Legend of Mana.

How could they not release Chrono Cross!!??

Maybe they thought 'hey, we didn't convert Chrono Trigger, so those lowly PAL users won't mind missing out on its sequel'.

bah.

How could they not release Chrono Cross!!??

It was a travesty of immense proportions. I imported it though, so it all turned out okay. My wallet has since recovered. :-)

"UncleLou: If those are the criteria used for buying games, I guess you don't get to play many at all. Isn't it a bit like cutting off your nose to spite your face?"

Sorry DocX, hadn't noticed you adressed me. Well, frankly, No.

I actually buy and play quite a lot of games. The best games on the PS2 didn't have border/extra price tag problems. I am quite happy with ICO, GT3, REZ, PES, J&D...

Not to mention games on other platforms.

So which games are hampered by the border problem? Onimusha (which I bought with my PS2, unaware of the problem), DMC and now FFX. Did I forget some?
As much as I love video games, my life doesn't depend on them, really. I don't feel my life is less fulfilled because I don't get to play FFX.

If I feel Square or any other company does not make any effort at all to get my money, then they don't get it. It's as simple as that.

adding a 60hz mode takes a matter of days, and optimising would only take a few weeks (add some time for additional testing)

when there are so many good games out, any game which suffers from a terrible PAL conversion will instantly be put at the back of the list.

If everyone did like me, it wouldn't be in the top ten of the software charts. Yes, I like Immanuel Kant.

lol! More of a David Hume-ian myself. Guess that probably explains our slightly differing opinions on this one! :)

Nobby: clearly you don't care about optimised conversions and that's fair enough. To be honest, I was so into DMC I too forgot about the borders.

However, why the the fuck should I have to wait up to a year to play these games (and slower versions to boot)?

Again, three cheers to MS for their automatic PAL60 rendering in all games. With a bit of luck they'll make some in roads into the European market and demonstrate that dodgy conversions aren't wanted.

flickering graphics are a result of images being displayed at 50hz, I very much do notice it in games, but not on normal TV.

Which is exactly what I said. The flicker is inherent to PAL, rather than a fault of games themselves. You probably notice it more on games because of all the straight edges and/or due to large areas of the screen filled with the same colour.

Of course, if 100hz TVs were commonplaces, this wouldn't be an issue (or indeed progressive scan, of course).

Er

100.

50hz do show more flickering, when i tried PSO in 50hz i almost had a fit :P Final Fantasy is just as bad and due to the small -squished- font by the poor conversion if you have a small TV it can be difficult to read the menus.

Yeah, and that flicking text is just as obvious on teletext or ceefax.

I would have said small, cruddy, hard to read text is more a fault of TVs being interlaced, than low refresh rates.

gravity seems to be a little higher

eh??? that's bollocks, surely?

Square should really show accurate PAL screenshots on the back of the game casings, instead of misleading us with fullscreen images.

What they are doing is false advertising!!!

Who wants to start a class action?

Try and illustrate things to people and they come back with inaccurate facts.

Such is the Rule Of The Forums, I guess.

Oh.. if gravity "feels" different on SMB, ie you can differentiate between the running speeds, then Nintendo haven't bothered to optimise the game engine. 3 cheers Ninty.

What they are doing is false advertising!!!

Who wants to start a class action?

I wonder why none of us has mentioned this and I wonder why noone has tried to sue square or any other company that did such a thing.

At least in Germany, you would have to be a competitor of Square to sue them because of false advertising.

then Nintendo haven't bothered to optimise the game engine. 3 cheers Ninty

Blame Sega this time I fear ;)

Oh aye. hehe

If anyone can be bothered you might want to have a go out complaining to the ASA about FFX.

www.asa.org.uk

They have a nice online form to fill in and they are very quick at handling complaints.

I don't know whether on box screen shots would be classed as advertising so it might also be worth trying trading standards for misleading and inaccurate labelling.

www.asa.org.uk

I guess you have to be from UK to do that there so count me out


I don't know whether on box screen shots would be classed as advertising

Even though that's not advertising it is false product information on the actual product itself which in my opinion is even worse. Imagine buying a coke can and having water in it! There must surely be somewhere to complain about this.

And wasn't FFX advertised in UK? Weren't there any ingame clips shown? That's surely false advertising with fullscreen clips. I haven't seen any tv ads though in my Country.

Remember back in the Speccy days when you'd get a game & wow over the screenshots on the back of the cassette box or in adverts, & then notice the small-print identifying them as from the C64. Buggers.

I very much doubt there is a case for suing Square/Sony over full screen pics on the box. Laughed out of court I reckon.

"I very much doubt there is a case for suing Square/Sony over full screen pics on the box. Laughed out of court I reckon"

- its not worth taking them to court, but if they are showing ads with full screen pics of FFX the ASA can get them to pull the ad if they think the ad breaks the ASA rules. No courts involved.

Imagine buying a coke can and having water in it!

Er it has.

;-)

I dunno, this borders thing with the ASA doesn't sound particularly water-tight. I mean, if we applied this theory to Wonderbra they'd go out of business in 30 seconds flat (sic).

[Super Stu] - just read the ASA rules. They cover misleading ads. Also they have a list of complaints they have upheld - NTL seem to be a fav.

skal, do you want to tell him or shall I?