Enchanted Arms Review

By Rob Fahey Published 19 September, 2006

Grabs you.

Version tested: Xbox 360

Yes, they literally mean he's got an enchanted arm.

The titles of Japanese games are meant to be entertainingly mental, possibly carrying a certain broken-English charm. They're not meant to be literal - that's cheating. Just as Final Fantasy and Shadow Hearts featured remarkably little in the way of terminal wet dreams or occluded cardiac organs, and Elemental Gearbolt wasn't, er, whatever the hell that even means, so Enchanted Arms was originally assumed to be simply another collection of nice English words that some well-meaning Japanese chap had liked the sound of and stuck together for no apparent reason.

The last thing I expected, then, was that Enchanted Arms would turn out to be the Snakes On A Plane of the Japanese RPG world. It states its case up front, with no bones being made about its content - aside, possibly, from a humerus, a radius and an ulna. It's about a bloke with an arm which is enchanted. An enchanted arm. Do you see?

Actually, that's not the very last thing I expected. To be entirely accurate, the very last thing I expected was that Enchanted Arms would be any good. A Japanese role-playing game developed by a company better known for headache-inducingly hardcore stompy mech games, released early in a console's lifespan - and most of all, released on the Xbox 360, a platform which currently sells about as well in Japan as souvenir mugs with Pope Benedict's face on them do in Islamabad? A game destined to be still-born, surely? Perhaps not.

Two Short Planks

'Enchanted Arms' Screenshot 1

As previously and somewhat incredulously mentioned, Enchanted Arms follows the adventures of a young man with an enchanted arm, which actually isn't remotely as much fun for him as you'd imagine. You see, his arm actually has the mysterious power to remove enchantments from anything it touches - which, given that he attends a school for enchanters and lives in a city filled with machinery which works on the basis of enchantment, makes him somewhat unpopular. What also makes our hero Atsuma unpopular is the fact that he's absolutely, unremittingly stupid - with even his closest friends acknowledging that while he's quite handy on the practical side of things, he apparently doesn't have two brain cells to rub together.

Alarm bells should go off at this point. Are we really about to spend tens of hours following around some lunk with a brain cavity filled entirely with houmous and cream cheese as he bumbles from one situation to the next, ignoring the obvious and driving the player to towering heights of frustration with his inability to find solutions which are staring him in the face? Um... Sort of, yes. However, to Atsuma's credit, he's a likeable lummox, lacking the emo angst of many RPG protagonists - a lot of whom would seem more at home on LiveJournal than on the deck of an airship heading out to save the world. To the credit of the game script writers, meanwhile, Atsuma is largely bolstered by a supporting cast of intelligent characters who point out those obvious solutions quickly enough to alleviate much frustration, and whose eye-rolling at Atsuma's stupidity helps the player to identify more readily with the cast. There's even a running joke early in the game where the rest of your team gives you detailed instructions on how to use items such as chests, ladders and buttons (all of which just involve pressing A), while Atsuma enthusiastically celebrates learning these tricky new skills.

Central character aside, the storyline is fairly standard Japanese RPG fare; it's set in a post-apocalyptic world where, thousands of years after the destruction of a magical war in which autonomous ultimate weapons called Devil Golems were unleashed, civilisation is recovering under the protection of a number of great cities built using the power of enchanting. This, of course, is boring, so it's important that a Great Threat (the resurrection of the Devil Golems) should pop up for the Unlikely, Reluctant Hero (that would be Atsuma) to fight against, but only after coming to terms with his own Dark, Hidden Secret (his enchanted arm and the mysterious powers it unleashes). It's all quite nicely written, and features a number of sub-plots involving various characters you'll run into (all of whom have Dark Secrets of their own, although obviously not as exciting as Atsuma's enchanted arm) - all of which plays out in an astonishingly linear fashion, with sub-plots being dumped into the game such that you'll actually need to complete them before the main plot continues, rather than being in any way optional.

By The Nose

'Enchanted Arms' Screenshot 2

Whether this prospect sounds interesting or downright awful to you is really what separates fans of Japanese RPGs from the rest of the world, since those in the former camp accept that to a greater or lesser degree, the vast majority of the JRPG pantheon is really more interactive visual novel than role-playing game. Enchanted Arms is an extreme example of this, with the most involved side-quest you'll have the option of doing being to take a deliberate wrong turning, finding an optional golem boss (more on those in a moment) or chest full of items at the end of your short detour. Then it's back to the main path, and off again down the clearly signposted street.

Thankfully, though, it's a very nice street. Graphically, From Software has pulled out all the stops and created one of the best-looking early Xbox 360 titles, with truly stunning world environments, creative, interesting looking characters and creatures, and superb special effects in battles (all of which can be fast-forwarded if you're getting sick of watching the animations, which is a nice addition that makes the game much more pleasant to play). The world environments in particular are worthy of note, because this is one of the first Xbox 360 games where there were regular moments of standing around gawping at the world - especially in the opening segment of the game, which is set around an academy not dissimilar to Balamb Garden in Final Fantasy VIII. The comparison is useful, because Enchanted Arms, running in real-time, looks better than the computer-generated backgrounds and pre-rendered videos used in that game - and From Software hasn't been afraid to throw showy special effects into its environments either, such as fountains and waterfalls which refract and distort the scene behind them realistically.

The game also largely eschews rendered scenes, and manages some truly stunning cut-scenes in the game engine - which really adds to the drama of the scenes in an unexpected way, since there is no longer a clear line between watching a movie scene and viewing an in-game scene. It's only with the removal of this division that you realise just how jarring that transition has been for the last two generations of Japanese RPGs, because we have become so accustomed to rendered scenes indicating really dramatic story moments that we've come to treat them differently to the rest of the game. With this distinction removed, the whole game feels more coherent and the experience as a whole is improved - a significant plus point for Enchanted Arms, and something we hope to see become the norm in next-gen RPGs.

However, not all is well on the graphical front - and the fact that Enchanted Arms was a relatively early title on the Xbox 360 shines through as you get to later stages of the game, where environments become more drab and less populated with interesting architecture and characters. There's a strong feeling that much of the development effort went into the early stages of the game, and while the storyline continues to belt forward at a fast enough pace to be satisfying as the end nears, the environments are definitely disappointing, with a somewhat unfinished feel.

Square Deal

The other aspect of the game which supports the visual novel style storytelling is, of course, the combat system. In this regard, Enchanted Arms takes the interesting approach of merging traditional RPG turn-based play with a more tactical system, where character placement and the composition of your party are both very important. While your party does include several "story" characters - humans, basically - it is also bolstered by the addition of golems which you collect and build as you move through the world. These creatures, although limited in terms of their range of abilities, can be extremely powerful - and you'll often find yourself swapping them into your main battle party to tackle specific types of foes, or to cut through waves of grunt enemies, thus leaving your core party members fresh for boss battles.

There's a certain Pokemon feel to the golems, too - From's designers clearly spent a long time working on the design of these characters, and they range from the comical to the very dark and threatening, each with a unique set of animations. Collecting all the golems is the most entertaining sub-game on offer in Enchanted Arms (the others are mostly simple clones of normal gambling games, and don't really have much to offer), and building your collection of them will definitely provide hours of fun - especially for the borderline obsessive-compulsive types in the audience.

Battles play out on two facing four-by-four grids, one for your characters, one for the enemies - and each character has a range of attacks which hit a certain arrangement of squares, with the simplest being attacks that simply fire forwards in a straight line, while more complex manoeuvres might attack in an X shape or be able to hit only the square directly in front of the character, requiring them to be in your front row (and their target to be in the enemy front row). Each turn, you move and then attack (or heal, another action which is executed based on a grid pattern) with each of your characters, then the enemy does the same - and positioning matters not only to make it tough for your foes to hit your characters, but also because of the shielding effect which occurs when a straight-line attack hits one character, and then another.

This makes for a very interesting battle system, albeit not because the game itself presents any major challenge. In fact, Enchanted Arms is very easy as games of this genre go - the difficulty curve is fairly level, and you'll never have to hang around an area fighting enemies just to level up in order to progress. Even for newcomers to the genre, the Game Over screen will be rarely seen - but that doesn't mean the battles are uninteresting. Instead, the challenge lies in working out the optimum way of defeating your enemies, with the ideal strategy usually yielding a way of beating them without allowing them to take a single turn. This is important, because Enchanted Arms has dumped the traditional concept of hitpoints being carried from battle to battle until you heal up - instead, your characters are automatically revived and restored to full health between battles. However, if the party has taken damage, a different gauge called VP depletes, and this cannot be restored until you find a heal station on the map. It won't affect you in battle - until a character's VP gauge depletes entirely, at which point they cannot be used until you heal them, and you'll need to swap them for another character.

Random Choice

'Enchanted Arms' Screenshot 3

It's a nice step, and one which removes one of the chief annoyances of many RPGs - namely having to run around with countless healing items just to keep your party in shape. This appears to have been one of the main objectives of the development team, in fact - and while we're on the topic, we could cover a few other RPG niggles which disappear from Enchanted Arms. Equipment, for example, is gone - with the exception of weapons, your characters don't change their equipment at any point during the game, which tones down much of the complexity of the genre. In a western RPG, that would be a complete castration of an important element of the game - most Japanese RPGs, however, relegate equipment to the simplicity of a single escalating scale of power for each item type, so why not just build it into the level-up system and be done with it?

Another welcome departure is the farewell we bid to save points. Instead, Enchanted Arms allows you to save anywhere in the game - just open the menu and select save. This is an excellent decision on From Software's part - it doesn't remove any of the tension from the dungeons, because it's still vital to reach heal points in order to restore your party's VP, but it removes much of the frustration associated with having to reach that far-off "next save point" before being able to turn off the game and do something else - or, indeed, with having to clear a final tedious section of dungeon over and over again if you're having trouble with boss battles.

Given this determination to rid the game of many of the daft, annoying problems with JRPGs, Enchanted Arms' biggest single flaw is all the more unforgivable. Wait for it, folks - it's 2006, it's over ten years since the PlayStation, it's god knows how many years since Chrono Trigger (I could look it up, but I'm not crediting Wikipedia for a third review in a row), and From Software's latest RPG creation, running on a six-core PowerPC system with half a gig of memory and a four-point-five gigabyte DVD disc, features... Random battles!

Yes, random battles. Industry legend suggests that the concept was invented on ancient console systems because of the overheads involved in putting all the enemies on the world map - and whether this is entirely true or not, the fact remains that random battles should have died when technology became good enough to put enemies on that map. Enchanted Arms can simulate refractions through running water, it can provide real-time geometry that makes PlayStation-era rendered video look lame, but apparently it can't put some bloody monsters on the world map so that players can see them coming. To add insult to injury, in places the encounter rate is incredibly high - bringing back sad memories of the first time I ever smashed a console controller in an uncontrollable rage by flinging it at a wall considerably more solid than the pad's flimsy plastic casing. The console was the Dreamcast; the game was Skies of Arcadia. Enchanted Arms never quite reaches those levels of frustration (not least because the battles are comparatively simple and easy, albeit lacking the elegant charm of the seminal Skies of Arcadia's battle system), but nonetheless - this issue drags the game down like a millstone around its neck. A millstone made of depleted uranium.

Bewitched Appendages

This significant irritation is all the more annoying because it leaves a bitter aftertaste on what is otherwise a somewhat clichéd, but very solidly executed and extraordinarily pretty JRPG. It also makes the player focus on other flaws - such as the horribly miscalculated character of Makoto, one of Atsuma's school friends, who is flamboyantly gay and has an undisguised crush on another of Atsuma's companions, Touya. Unfortunately, he reflects the worst of every possible gay stereotype, making what was telegraphed as a bold move for a videogame into a weak parody - and while nobody in their right mind is actually going to get offended by Makoto's camp, bitchy persona, it's still a disappointing reflection of the storytellers' unwillingness to move beyond cliché with their characters. Another irritation is the English language voice acting, which is a singularly unpleasant example of what happens when you skimp on your dubbing budget - although thankfully, Microsoft does not have Sony's wrong-headed insistence on hiding Japanese language options from European audiences, so you can flick over to the much more bearable, albeit less comprehensible, Japanese language track with subtitles.

In considering a final score, it's hard not to take into account all of these various problems - but fans of Japanese RPGs should bear in mind that behind the problems lies an extremely competent, if not terribly imaginative, RPG which will certainly fill a couple of dozen hours of your time in an entertaining and involving manner. More than that, however, this is an extremely promising sign for the Xbox 360 - whose predecessor wasn't exactly noted as being a haven for Japanese RPGs. If the graphical quality of Enchanted Arms and its willingness to drop RPG bad habits of the past in favour of a leaner, more entertaining game system can be replicated by more accomplished storytellers working on other titles - and if the random battle element can finally be laid to rest, preferably in a grave with a dancefloor on the top - then there may be a real future for this genre on Microsoft's latest console. But lay off the literal titles, please - Atsuma's actual enchanted arm was just too much of a shock.

7 / 10

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Picture of Rob.

About Rob Fahey

Rob Fahey is a former editor of GamesIndustry.biz who spent several years living in Japan and probably still has a mint condition Dreamcast Samba de Amigo set.

Read more articles from Rob by visiting the Rob Fahey archive page.

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Comments (119) Latest comment 5 years ago

Comments threads automatically close after 30 days, but please feel free to continue chatting on the forum!

  • kissthestick #1 5 years ago

    needed a lower score

  • Blerk #2 5 years ago

    So, solid but unspectacular. Better than I was expecting, tbh!

    I was reading a review of this the other day which suggested that quite a bit of stuff that they wanted to put into the game was missing because Microsoft insisted on a January 2006 release date. Wonder if they'll take the opportunity to put some of that stuff back in for the PS3 version and address some of the niggles at the same time?

  • Subquest #3 5 years ago

    you say the graphics suffer - so I imagine you didn't take these frankly stunning screenshots yourself then?...

  • Shinji #4 5 years ago

    The graphics suffer late in the game from simply seeming unfinished, as the environments aren't up to the quality of the earlier sections. Those screenshots aren't our own (I don't have the kit to do HD screencaps, sadly), but I can confirm that they're all in-engine and perfectly representative of what the game looks like when it's running. It's really very, very pretty.

  • Blerk #5 5 years ago

    See my comment above! :-)

  • Decoded #6 5 years ago

    What on earth posesses JRPG developers to persist with random battles in 2006? I just don't get it.

  • Steroyd #7 5 years ago

    What on earth posesses JRPG developers to persist with random battles in 2006? I just don't get it.

    Processing power.

  • Darren #8 5 years ago

    I've very nearly completed Enchanted Arms after getting the "bad" ending (even though it was "the right thing to do";) and I've spent an enjoyable week doing so. Great game, very newbie friendly and although it might be generic to the hardcore Japanese RPGers I thought the story, dialogue and characters were superb and kept me playing it, just like reading a really good book you can't put down until you've finished it. I loathe random battles normally but here they're not so annoying and you're allowed to save the game prior to the big boss battles as you can usually see them (i.e. they aren't invisible like the random battles). Also the golems add so much variety to the battles that I was constantly looking forward to getting the next one. Cutscenes are wonderful but the graphics ingame are a little empty and bland. The numerous creatures and people you encounter are well-designed though. The music is fantastic though throughout although the battle music does become a little repetitve when you've heard for the 700th time! I even thought the English voice acting was decent... yes, even Atsuma!!!

    I just need to finish the game with the good ending and I'm done but I'm just running around at the moment levelling up my party first and completing the dungeons that weren't integral to the story.

    EG's review pleases me and I'm happy with that score, although I'd probably give it an 8 or even a 9 'cos I've enjoyed it so much. It was the game I expected to play the least but instead games like Test Drive Unlimited and Dead Rising have been the ones gathering dust!!! LOL

  • Kuma #9 5 years ago

    Thoroughly enjoying this. Should have been an 8 since you gave credit for far more things it does well than things is doesn't (and those were all faults of the genre is general) IMO. Bought this hoping to finish in a fortnight and then get a cheap Dead Rising and Saints Row and it has not disappointed. I found the story pretty humourous at times as well.
    Random battles are fine with me, they are a way of making sure the poorer less experienced player can still finish the game by investing some time in levelling up. All JRPG games should use a grid like the one in Enchanted Arms.
    Edited by 1 at 19/09/06 @ 09:52

  • Pike #10 5 years ago

    If random battles annoy you, then you don't get japanese RPGs.. which is fine, but you really aren't the right guy to review it.

    Also, they were invented so that areas would never run out of enemies, which in a levelling up scenario is very important.

    It's not a bug, it's a feature.

  • Shinji #11 5 years ago

    If random battles annoy you, then you don't get japanese RPGs.. which is fine, but you really aren't the right guy to review it.

    Sorry, but that's nonsense. Just because they're a common feature doesn't make them right, and an increasing number of RPGs - ever since the SNES era - have been doing away with them entirely. They are NOT an innate feature of the genre by any means.

  • lambtron #12 5 years ago

    Well I'm struggling to think of an RPG without random battles...

  • Mr_Brown #13 5 years ago

    I agree, random battles are a part of JRPG's. Though it is annoying when they are too regular or in sensless places. If you don't like em, you are playing the wrong genre.
    Edited by 1 at 19/09/06 @ 10:05

  • Decoded #14 5 years ago

    Xenosaga, Star Ocean, Tales of Symphonia, Grandia.

    All games/series which feature roaming enemies, and no problems with levelling. Grandia, in fact, is perhaps the easiest JRPG I've ever played. In most cases, leaving an area then re-entering will cause the enemies to respawn.

  • Shinji #15 5 years ago

    Well, start with Chrono Trigger and work forward :) Good recent examples include some of the top RPGs of the last few years - Xenosaga, Tales of Symphonia, etc. From memory I don't think Grandia III had random ones either.

  • Darren #16 5 years ago

    I remember playing the wonderful, wonderful Grandia II (on the Dreamcast) which didn't have invisible enemies or random battles but it was still a game that required you to fight and level up. The fact that you could see the enemies on the world map meant that you can avoid them if you were low on health although occasionally you'd accidentally back into them and it would be a pre-emptive attack by the enemies!!! You could also go back and fight the ones you'd avoided once you'd levelled up.

    That to me is probably the best way of doing these kinds of games as it feels "fair" and "logical". Enchanted Arms does make the random battles far more bearable than normal though and is my second favourite Japanese RPG but Grandia II is still my all-time favourite thanks to considerate game design that feels logical within the confines of the game world and a truly wonderful and engrossing storyline.

  • Blerk #17 5 years ago

    While I don't mind random battles, I'd much rather they didn't have them these days. There really is no excuse for not having the beasties roaming around the play-area with so much processing power under the hood these days - if only to improve the 'feel' of the game. It's always much nicer to be able to see those little bastards going about their business before they notice you and come to impale you with spikes.

    To suggest that a true RPG lover must also love random battles is absolute nonsense.

  • lennon #18 5 years ago

    I hate random battles but for some reason have been able to forgive them with this game. Apart from some pretty terrible voice acting its quite absorbing and the huge range of collectable characters adds to the game well.

  • Hog-lumps #19 5 years ago

    I used to like random battles, but I've found I've grown a little tired of random battles lately - perhaps I've been playing too much dragonquest but I certanily wouldn't complain if they scrapped random battles altogether!

    Blerk makes a good point though, the gameworlds would surely feel much more alive if we could see all these beasties in the field. As it stands a lot of these games feel a little empty as you wander about.

  • jlaakso #20 5 years ago

    Well, damn. Looks like a buy, then, I haven't played a JRPG since the excellent Baten Kaitos.

    It's weird how this game has got bad reviews. Penny Arcade was the first I saw saying that it's all good, even if it's not exactly classic material. Maybe it's because people weren't expecting a JRPG for some reason, despite the game clearly being one.

  • MrChuckles #21 5 years ago

    I got this, and apart from the annoyance of my 360's DVD drive stopping every hour or so, i'm having a good laugh.

    Culdcept is the next one on my radar, oh dear, i am a strategy geek.

  • itamae #22 5 years ago

    The titles of Japanese games are meant to be entertainingly mental, possibly carrying a certain broken-English charm.

    The best one I've seen in recent days is Kidou Senshi Gundam SEED Destiny: Rengou vs. Z.A.F.T. II Plus. :-D

    Anyway, I don't really mind random battles as long as the encounter rate is reasonable (I'm looking at you, Skies of Arcadia) and the battles don't take too long (I'm still looking at you). Actually, I think that some RPGs work better with random encounters, like Digital Devil Saga for example. Generally speaking though I prefer roaming enemies of course.

  • nickthegun #23 5 years ago

    Well I'm struggling to think of an RPG without random battles...

    I know its not a JRPG, but oblivion doesnt have random battles. It randomly spawns opponents but you can turn and run away from them if you want as you see them coming a mile off, which I think is what the review is getting at.

    You shouldnt be randomly thrown into the battle animation, you should be able to see a fight coming and actively choose whether to participate or not.

  • Aretak #24 5 years ago

    I'd give this a high 8 personally, perhaps even a 9. I'm really enjoying it about 27 hours in.

  • Blerk #25 5 years ago

    You shouldnt be randomly thrown into the battle animation, you should be able to see a fight coming and actively choose whether to participate or not.

    Indeed. Being able to see the fights before-hand allows better fight mechanics. You could try to dodge, or to get the first hit in. Or chuck bombs at it from a distance to soften it up first.

    Loads of stuff you can do which just isn't possible with random encounters.

  • Hog-lumps #26 5 years ago

    Loads of stuff you can do which just isn't possible with random encounters.

    Well FFvii had it's 'Pre-emptive Materia' for getting the first hit in of course ;)

  • Aretak #27 5 years ago

    You always get the first turn in Enchanted Arms anyway (unless your opponent happens to have an extremely high agility stat).

  • psorcerer #28 5 years ago

    Err... seems like X360-fanboy-ism to me.
    First there was a medoicre Oblivion with 10, now there is this one with 7...
    Seems like the image of "elite gamers with overeloquent language" is too much for Eurogamer these times.
    Want to be more like Gamespot? Way to go!

  • psorcerer #29 5 years ago

    LeDilettante
    The version reviewed was a X360 one.

  • Shinji #30 5 years ago

    Kidou Senshi Gundam SEED Destiny: Rengou vs. Z.A.F.T. II Plus

    But that one makes perfect sense! Er... If you're a saddo like me :(

    Err... seems like X360-fanboy-ism to me.

    Hahahahahaha brilliant :) You've made my morning :)

  • Blerk #31 5 years ago

    lol! There goes the thread! :-)

  • Aretak #32 5 years ago

    "It does not look so hot. Looks ok, looks like something average running on an old Xbox."

    The original Xbox would explode at the very thought of rendering some of the environments in EA.

  • psorcerer #33 5 years ago

    Shinji
    > Hahahahahaha brilliant :) You've made my morning :)

    Denial won't make you any good. The fanboy-ism gets in your blood unnoticed with every game you play on X360, so just throw the satan-box away!
    Edited by 1 at 19/09/06 @ 11:05

  • Hog-lumps #34 5 years ago

    First there was a medoicre Oblivion with 10, now there is this one with 7...

    uhh, sometimes I wish EG wouldn't put scores at the end of their reviews if only to stop stupid comments like this........ afteral, its the review that counts and not the 'score' godamnit!

  • Shinji #35 5 years ago

    Next time I interview Peter Moore I'm definitely going to preface every really argumentative question with "Now, I'm an Xbox 360 fanboy, but..." :)

  • Cyhwuhx #36 5 years ago

    .::: The random battles are hardly a negative. They're not excessively used at all (only instance being the London sewers, the rest is very fair, I can easily walk around for a few minutes without being attacked) and when used in combination with Auto battle and the FFWD button they simply don't have any time to annoy you. The other battle elements are good enough to make them fun and engaging anyway. Never mind that not having to conserve energy whatsoever makes the prime annoyance-factor melt away, because, let's face it, if you don't want battles in an RPG you are playing the wrong game. Also a bit puzzled at the difficulty comment. As at about 40% the game starts throwing a bit more difficult stuff at you. A certain emperor had a few friends of mine stumped. And they were playing without upgrading excessively.

    In my opinion it's very harsh to take Enchanted Arms down on the random battles aspect. If anything it only strengthens the feel to finally having a solid, classic RPG again with enough 'modern' refinements to make it highly enjoyable. The presentation and all associated elements keep the game down a bit (it's certainly no evergreen), but purely based on gameplay this provides much, much more enjoyment than the attached score implies.
    Edited by 1 at 19/09/06 @ 11:15

  • Shinji #37 5 years ago

    Now hang on - for a start, I think you underestimate just how annoying a lot of players find random battles, but more than that, I think you overestimate the extent to which they influenced the score. I like the game, but even had they had monsters in the field rather than random battles, it would almost certainly still be a seven - a very solid, respectable, but ultimately a bit unremarkable score, for a game which is solid, respectable, enjoyable, and ultimately a bit unremarkable.

  • #38 5 years ago

    I'm glad I bought this now. I just need to find time to play it, but shouldn't be too hard now I've finished Dead Rising and am starting to tire a little of TDU.

  • psorcerer #39 5 years ago

    Shinji
    > "Now, I'm an Xbox 360 fanboy, but..." :)

    To make him speak slowly you can just ask!

  • zgundamfan #40 5 years ago

    "Well I'm struggling to think of an RPG without random battles..."

    What about
    Star Ocean 3 (PS2)
    Valkyrie Profile Lenneth (PSP)
    Radiata Stories (PS2)
    Tales of Symphonia (GCN)
    Stella Deus: The gate of eternity (PS2)

    None has random battles and they run on current gen machines.
    Edited by 1 at 19/09/06 @ 11:37

  • Blerk #41 5 years ago

    Chrono Trigger didn't have random battles and that was a SNES title. :-)

  • Steroyd #42 5 years ago

    Meh!! JRPG's random battles have got way less frequent since the PS1 when every two steps a random battle was activated.

    JRPG's are slowly comming out of the closet with real-time battles although if it's like FFXII it comes at a cost of not having those expansive world maps like the good ole' PS1 days.

    Game looks interesting but the only thing that puts me off is the prospect of random encounters and a grid based battle system cocktail which just tells me that it's "insert random battle RPG" meets Disgaea.
    Edited by 2 at 19/09/06 @ 13:23

  • Blerk #43 5 years ago

    While I'd agree that all games can be improved by removing the random battles, I would disagree that real-time battles are always an improvement. There's still lots and lots of room for some fantastic turn-based strategising. Real-time battles turn into button-mashing contests far too often for my liking, meaning strategy goes out the window.

  • Blerk #44 5 years ago

    PS2 RPGs hardly sell anything over here, so it's hardly surprising that a 360 RPG would tank, is it?

  • kangarootoo #45 5 years ago

    @ManicMinerUK

    Lol. Saying Shinji doesn't "get" JRPGs is like saying the Pope doesn't "get" God.

    I remember random encounters way back playing some shareware RPG on a Mac (I forget its name, which is really annoying, it was made by Fantasoft if that rings a bell with anyone). They sucked even back then.

    @psorcerer

    Oh the irony. It really seems that only fanboys raise the accusation of others.

    "so just throw the satan-box away!"

    Aaaaand the truth will out. "satan-box"? How old are you? If the answer to that question is in double figures you should be embarrassed. Not everyone lives in your strange little world, some of us don't even visit.

    Anyway, back to the game. I'm not what you would call a JRPG fan, though I do like my RPGs. This review has got me interested though, maybe its been more a case of just not shopping for them rather than not liking them.

  • nickthegun #46 5 years ago

    removing the random battles, I would disagree that real-time battles are always an improvement. There's still lots and lots of room for some fantastic turn-based strategising.

    Well, they arent, necessarily mutually exclusive. For example, FFIV, the game everyone has played, wouldnt it be better if, when wandering the map, you could actually see where enemies were placed and, if you strayed to with a certain distance the battle sequence kicked in?

    The battles would still be classic turn based, but you would have a say in when they occured. You could make it to the town and buy some more potions without getting into that random battle that kills you and sends you back to the last save point.

  • Cyhwuhx #47 5 years ago

    .::: @Shinji: Hmm, the text seems to point at it as being the main candidate for its problems. Whether I'm underestimating the annoyance factor of random battles or not, I'm not sure. I wonder if people disliking them are inclined to play RPGs in the first place. 'If only it hadn't been for those random battles and their meddling dog', if you catch my drift.

    Then again I do have a bit of a soft spot for Enchanted Arms. Mainly because after years of experimenting in the genre this comes along with all the comfort and enjoyment of SNES/PS Era RPGs. Add to that a solid collection of improvements from other RPGs on top and you can say that definitely isn't the most original RPG in years it certainly is the most enjoyable to me.

    I think the only thing that can be universally agreed upon is that nobody expected From Software to come up with something like this.

  • Blerk #48 5 years ago

    Yeah, I agree nick - but I wasn't saying that they were mutually exclusive. It was a reply to Steroyd who seemed to be suggesting that real-time battles were also the way to go.

  • Cyhwuhx #49 5 years ago

    .::: @disc: The game is selling pretty well in the Netherlands. Not every shop stocked it, but those who did sold out pretty quickly. It's even hard to get at some places as stocks are a bit low.

  • Hog-lumps #50 5 years ago

    if you strayed to with a certain distance the battle sequence kicked in?

    A lot of RPG's already do this e.g Grandia or ToS

  • trevd72 #51 5 years ago

    i have stopped playing jrpgs. why do they still run with the same old conflict resolution mechanism spawned from the tabletop/book rpgs of the 80's. Move on. it would be OK if there was real strategy to them battles but there is not, really, if your honest. Eternal dagger was the only good real turn based rpg that handled the battles well and that was 20 years ago on the c64.

    Somehow though i still crave the story that tell. but i have too little time to get bogged down in random battles. how so the japs find the time....i thought they worked rediculous hours and did shit loads of extra study after school??
    Edited by 1 at 19/09/06 @ 12:09

  • psorcerer #52 5 years ago

    kangarootoo
    Oh, when the reasonable peple flame it's so much fun!
    You've got me this time, I'm really 1-year old PS2 fanboy, who lives in a small dark world of previous-gen console!
    Where should I send you your the check for the shrink session?

  • Wobble #53 5 years ago

    /just got lego starwars 2

    //waits for EA to get discounted.

    and yea, no realtime battles please! Best way to ruin a good rpg.

    Strategising and planning ftw.

  • nickthegun #54 5 years ago

    It was a reply to Steroyd who seemed to be suggesting that real-time battles were also the way to go.

    Oh right, then I agree. Every game requires a certain battle type. Turns are cool for some and real time good for others.

    And, yeah, initially in oblivion, despite being pretty handy at the old FPS games, i did find myself wildly thrashing around trying to hit things, which almost made me despair.....you get used to it, though.

  • Blerk #55 5 years ago

    it would be OK if there was real strategy to them battles but there is not, really, if your honest.

    Parp!

    Welcome to the world of "completely wrong"!

  • speedofthepuma #56 5 years ago

    how long is this game?

    Love RPGs but feel part of the love is probably most of them give great value for money - is this the case here?

  • ilmaestro #57 5 years ago

    Steroyd: FFXII "comes at a cost of not having those expansive world maps"?! There's more field exploring to do in FFXII than any other FF I can think of. Unless you really, really can't get on with a couple of seconds loading while you move to the next area, I'm not quite sure what you are talking about. The old world maps were just bland backgrounds standing in for when they were able to add the detail you get in FFXII.

    Oh, and for anyone wondering, real-time is the way of the future when it comes to 'regular' RPGs. Planning and strategizing are much more fun when done on the fly imo, and the turn based systems will be left to the dedicated SRPGs. Ask Level 5, ask the FF team, ask tri-Ace; all of those developers (the three devs whose games I look forward to the most now) are going for real-time or at the very least real-time-esque battles on their main original projects.
    Edited by 1 at 19/09/06 @ 12:38

  • Darren #58 5 years ago

    @speedofthepuma - I've clocked up about 48 hours on it, have completed 93% of the game, finished it with the "bad" ending and got a Game Complete save for my efforts. However if you want to collect all the golems, do the other optional dungeons (of which there are four I believe) and finish it with the good ending I reckon you're looking at 50-60 hours gaming easily. I've deliberately spent a good few hours wandering around for the random battles so I could build up my party, at least five hours or so, so you have to take that into consideration. Mind you I'm using that to find more golems and do those other dungeons I mentioned above.

  • Mr_Whacker #59 5 years ago

    Why should you decide when to fight? Thats the most contrived aspect of an already contrived genre. So you're already the most powerful entity in this game world (even at low levels and even though the story is usually about the little man and the evil big man) and yet you still want to chicken out of fights? Why would your opponent allow that? In Oblivion you can run away but they WILL run after you.

    And they are not RPGs. At all. They are scripted adventure games and other than graphically haven't really moved anywhere in 20 years. So nevermind 'why random battles in 2006', I think we should ask 'why 20 year old format scripted adventures in 2006'.

  • Hog-lumps #60 5 years ago

    Why should you decide when to fight?

    Umm, becuase we're not all as sadistic as you? ;)

    But seriously, there are always times when you want to avoid a fight;

    E.g. your party are all in minimal HP with a lack of restoritive items/magic. Or maybe you need to get to that save point quickly becuase you've got a date to make and realised you're running out of time.

    A lot of 'random fight rpgs' get around this with the use of items. eg dragonquest has items that stop the apearance of creatures for a brief time- could be a life saver!

  • Darren #61 5 years ago

    It's the same reason that we're still getting games like Broken Sword: Angel of Death. Because people WANT them. If you're telling a story then there's no way you can avoid a certain amount of linearity when going from start to finish. You can have sub-plots to add variety and multiple endings but bascially these kind of games will always be fairly linear as they rely heavily on character interaction and storytelling. Nowt wrong with that I say.

  • mankell #62 5 years ago

    Can't make my mind up whether to get this.

    Does the landscape have to load in when you leave an area like FF and Grandia or is it a complete 3d world as in DQ8?

  • Steroyd #63 5 years ago

    Yeah, I agree nick - but I wasn't saying that they were mutually exclusive. It was a reply to Steroyd who seemed to be suggesting that real-time battles were also the way to go.

    As Dragon Quest 8 shows is that the old retro formula still has some kick in it but all the big guns like SE and Level 5 etc are going into the real-time direction.

    There's more field exploring to do in FFXII than any other FF I can think of. Unless you really, really can't get on with a couple of seconds loading while you move to the next area, I'm not quite sure what you are talking about. The old world maps were just bland backgrounds standing in for when they were able to add the detail you get in FFXII.

    hmm... really? it's just that all the videos i've seen and junk seems to suggest that's it's fairly linear like Final Fantasy X.

    i can only go by videos because i'm still waiting for the damn game to hit European shores goddamnit.

  • Decoded #64 5 years ago

    It's not about running away. I hardly ever run from a battle. What I tend to do, in games that feature roaming enemies, is clear an area, which I am then free to explore without futher interruption - something that isn't possible with random battles.

    As for contrivance, well, I fail to see how choosing when to fight more contrived than being repeatedly forced to fight enemies that aren't even there.

  • Darren #65 5 years ago

    You have a brief two-three second pause and a flashy twirly patterny thing warp the screen when you encounter random battles. Upon entering larger areas and cities you get an occasional brief but bland loading screen that lasts no more than five seconds. Basically there are no real noticable loading times while you play the game and the battles are near instantaneous.

  • Hog-lumps #66 5 years ago

    Steroyd wasn't Dragon Quest 8 made by level 5 as well though? Show's they've still got faith in turn based stratagy? (afteral DQ8 came after Dark chronicle).

  • Darren #67 5 years ago

    There's only one point in the game where the random battles become annoying but even then they seem deliberately less in number and that's the Sage's Tower and that god-awful pushing-the-blocks puzzle that requires you to move no less than 30 or even 40 blocks in order to open two gates to get some Ether. Maybe there's an obvious pattern but I couldn't tell which statues lit up red and which were green until I'd moved them then you have to move the ones that you don't need out of the way in order for the gates to open!!! Very annoying when you have to worry about the random battles as well, particularly as a really hard one crops up every so often if you take too long...

  • riz23 #68 5 years ago

    Slightly off topic, but MrChuckles did mention it, so, is Culdcept Saga getting an European release or are we just hoping the US one will be region free?

  • MrChuckles #69 5 years ago

    I did ask some contacts at M$ about whether games not released in Europe wouldn't be region locked in the US, and they said there is no official word, up to the individual publisher. I'm hoping Culdcept doesn't get locked, or i'll be mighty annoyed...

  • Mr_Whacker #70 5 years ago

    The contrived bit is walking past a troll who is 2 metres away without him having a pop at you purely because you don't want him to. So its contrived because it differs from real life where you either think your way out of a fight or you have to fight. You don't just walk past a violent thug in the street and politely decline his offer to smack you about.

    I reckon you'd be better off with a good book or film if you want a linear story. Games are supposed to be interactive. Just because I move the character around from A to B doesn't make it interactive if I have no choice of where to go. Sure, I can visit C but do nothing there. So that leaves the fight mechanic. And for me there needs to be plenty of it in a game like this or it feels like I'm just watching telly. So, erm, I guess Hog-lumps is right!

  • riz23 #71 5 years ago

    I hope so. I tried to struggle through Culdcept in Japanese on the Saturn, I never want to face that again! You never can tell with the US games, for example Enchanted Arms US is region free..

  • Hog-lumps #72 5 years ago

    You don't just walk past a violent thug in the street and politely decline his offer to smack you about.

    Yes I agree, but alternatively you can choose (in advance) to cross to the otherside of the road if you think somone up ahead looks a bit 'dodgy', thus saving you that beating! :o)

  • Decoded #73 5 years ago

    Games with roaming enemies often make it fairly difficult, or at least risky, to avoid battles (by placing enemies on narrow walkways, for instance). They do run after you if you're spotted, but more often than not are unable to catch you. It's rarely a case of simply strolling by while whistling a happy tune and swinging your arms about.

    I maintain, though, that running away is no less feasible than being attacked by enemies appearing out of the ether. Western RPGs are different in that they don't have the jarring transition from game world to battle system, which can be agonizingly long when you're trying to do something/get somewhere.

  • Syneisha #74 5 years ago

    I know this may seem like a funy choice of example, but why not take the Pokemon approach of there being random battles *and* ones you can see coming and avoid?

  • Steroyd #75 5 years ago

    Steroyd wasn't Dragon Quest 8 made by level 5 as well though? Show's they've still got faith in turn based stratagy? (afteral DQ8 came after Dark chronicle).

    Level 5 with a SE influence yeah.

    I don't think SE have the guts to chop and change DQ like they do FF because DQ sold 50% more than FF did. o_O

    And FF sold something like 2.4 million in the first week. O_O

  • kangarootoo #76 5 years ago

    @Mr_Whacker

    "The contrived bit is walking past a troll who is 2 metres away without him having a pop at you purely because you don't want him to. So its contrived because it differs from real life where you either think your way out of a fight or you have to fight."

    Lol. Let me get this right. You are saying that in real life, you would HAVE to fight the troll?

    Seriously though, there is a 3rd option in real life. Don't get into a fight. Which I think is what is being suggested here as an option in-game.

    Besides which, the question you should be asking is "is it fun?", not "is it contrived?". If you could only have one or the other, I know which I would choose in my games every time.

  • Hog-lumps #77 5 years ago

    To be fair to 'random battle rpgs', there is usually battle command to 'run away' and avoid the conflict once the fight starts, so you dont HAVE to fight the troll in the game if you don't want to.......... :)
    Edited by 1 at 19/09/06 @ 15:23

  • Decoded #78 5 years ago

    A significant proportion of escape attempts will be met with "YOU CAN'T ESCAPE HAHAHAHAHAHA WANKER" or something similar and you'll lose your turn. Damn you, Digital Devil Saga.
    Edited by 1 at 19/09/06 @ 15:27

  • Steroyd #79 5 years ago

    yeah i've got to get round to playing that come to think of it.

  • Blerk #80 5 years ago

    The contrived bit is walking past a troll who is 2 metres away without him having a pop at you purely because you don't want him to. So its contrived because it differs from real life where you either think your way out of a fight or you have to fight. You don't just walk past a violent thug in the street and politely decline his offer to smack you about.

    Have you even played any RPGs with enemies visible on the field?

    They don't just stand there like lumps, you know! They move about. They see you and chase you.

  • Steroyd #81 5 years ago

    Yep and just like a thug they can jump you from behind or gang up on you.

    Thank god in Star Ocean you have a moment where you go through enemies after a battle.

  • Mr_Whacker #82 5 years ago

    Blerk - yes thanks, a few. So its chasing you. You're going to fight it. My point is if you want a game where you avoid enemies then play an action game, not a scripted RPG made only of 2 things - story and fighting. Because if a scripted RPG states you must fight here then fight you must. Sure, its jarring when you get no warning but the principle is not bad in my opinion. I play games so that they set me challenges. And if I don't like their game rules I don't buy them.

    Sorry Kanga, avoidance isn't always an option and you know it. If you've never had a pissed up nutter start laying into you in the street for no reason at some point in your life then you're either lucky or play too many games indoors. I can probably guess which.

    Nice to have a proper chat about games though instead of just slagging off hardware we haven't played on!

  • Scimarad #83 5 years ago

    I'd say that 7 is very very generous...

    Actually I'd probably better read the review before saying that.

    -edit-

    Nope, read it and still think you've been very generous. I think I must have a different version to everybody else as I normally LOVE JRPGs and I think this game is pretty awful. I really just do not get it...

    Edited by 2 at 19/09/06 @ 18:03

  • Agent_Llama #84 5 years ago

    Right, I'm almost swayed to buying this... but FFXII is just over the horizon... Oh heck...

    Who mentioned Grandia? Good games. :o)

  • thefilthandthefury #85 5 years ago

    I've not completed the game, but so far I'd definitely give it an 8 or a 9 myself. It's just the sort of game I've been looking for and walks over most of my PS2 RPG collection. This manages to merge together things I like about lots of other games and slap them into one. It's far from the best RPG out there, but to me it's certainly up there.

    Anyway, no grumbles about the score really as it's not far off my own view. If it got a 5 or something then I'd be a bit annoyed :D
    Edited by 1 at 19/09/06 @ 19:21

  • Lex_Luthor #86 5 years ago

    "It's just the sort of game I've been looking for and walks over most of my PS2 RPG collection."

    You've clearly been playing the wrong RPGs then.

  • Scimarad #87 5 years ago

    I couldn't agree more - This game would disapear without a trace on the PS2...

  • thefilthandthefury #88 5 years ago

    Well the PS2 ones I have are the Nippon Ichi titles (Disgaea, Makai Kingdom, etc), the Shin Megami Tensei games (mostly Digital Devil Saga) and things like that as well as the 'usual suspects' in the Final Fantasy games.

    EDIT: Not that any of those are bad. I do love them all.
    Edited by 1 at 19/09/06 @ 19:35

  • Scimarad #89 5 years ago

    You can't seriously say you enjoy Enchanted Arms more than Digital Devil Saga and Disgaea, can you? I mean everybody is entitled to their own opinion and everything but still...

    Anyway I'll shut up now as I'm not saying anything constructive.

  • thefilthandthefury #90 5 years ago

    I do enjoy it more than those. I like Disgaea, but I don't think it's great. DDS, however, IS great but the scenery is so bland and lifeless it doesn't draw me in as much as Enchanted Arms.

  • Les #91 5 years ago

    "Planning and strategizing are much more fun when done on the fly imo, and the turn based systems will be left to the dedicated SRPGs. Ask Level 5, ask the FF team, ask tri-Ace; all of those developers (the three devs whose games I look forward to the most now) are going for real-time or at the very least real-time-esque battles on their main original projects."

    Planning and strategizing done on the fly?! That's called 'reacting'. Planning/strategizing is something you do before you act. But I'm afraid you're right about the fact we'll see less and less turn based RPGs: most people don't like to have to think while playing a game.

  • thefilthandthefury #92 5 years ago

    I'm definitely a bigger fan of turn based action in my RPGs. I don't think I could do without it :(

  • Darth_Flibble #93 5 years ago

    I'm quite enjoing the game, (random fights are fine but the high number is annoying). I managed to trade my RR6 for this as the person who got EA thought it will like shenmue from the packaging on the back of the box!

  • thefilthandthefury #94 5 years ago

    I didn't think the random battles occured that much. Certainly not as much as Shin Megami Tensei games :D haha. I don't mind that though.

  • Scimarad #95 5 years ago

    Okay, I know I said I'd shut up but I have to say this:-

    Surely the characters in DDS are worth a lot more than the graphics in Enchanted Arms. Enchanted Arms does look really nice, granted, but it just feels so damned lifeless. You can actually care about the characters in DDS because you can see them developing as they gain emotions - The characters in EA are just 2D in the extreme...

    I suppose it all comes down to why you play an RPG.

    Now I definitely promise to shut up about this game:-)

  • GordonJ #96 5 years ago

    The random battles do get annoying later, but by the time you get to the sage tower you're able to buy the encounter evade skill from the casino.

    I'd hate to try and do the beast shrine without that skill :)

  • thefilthandthefury #97 5 years ago

    Well I've only played about 10 hours of EA, but I don't think the characters are lifeless at all. Don't get me wrong, I love DDS, but I just like the atmosphere in EA better so far. The battle system in DDS is bloody good though, I love the way you can keep attacking as long as you damage the enemy with something they're weak to or a critical hit.

  • toy_brain #98 5 years ago

    "The characters in EA are just 2D in the extreme... "

    Though I dont agree with you exactly on this (because I think EA's script and characters are a lot of fun), I do think that a lot of FROM's games have a very... umm.... 'detached' feeling about them - especially their RPG's.
    Evergrace and Lost Kingdoms were both decent games, but there was something about them, something I cant quite put my finger on, that prevented me from feeling fully immersed in those games or truly caring about the characters.
    EA does a much better job of providing a less detached experience but it still feels like something is missing.

    Still, fun game so far (7:30 hours in) and the battle system is certainly something new and a worthy take on the turn-based formula. Hopefully FROM will see fit to tweak it and use it again in a future game.

  • OnlyMe #99 5 years ago

    I really like Atsumi, the main character. Toya is okay too, but Makoto is just annoying and too gay for my liking (I'm using that word as a description, not as an insult now). But other than that, it's a good game. It does feel like it's missing something, but I've only played a few hours so far. Just finished the "introduction" hours of the game, I believe.

    But I'm not a big fan of the music. The sound effects are good enough, but the music is just soulless and boring. And that's a shame, because a lot of dramatic scenes require a good score to feel as dramatic as it can be. Instead some scenes just feels devoid of life and too artificial. It's probably my biggest problem with a lot of other jrpgs than the Square series. For me to soak in the atmosphere completely, it gotta have a good soundtrack.

  • ice_freezer #100 5 years ago

    > ...so you can flick over to the much more bearable, albeit
    > less comprehensible, Japanese language track with subtitles.

    Yes

    > ...and if the random battle element can finally be laid to rest,
    > preferably in a grave with a dancefloor on the top...

    Nice one :)
    Edited by 1 at 20/09/06 @ 08:06

  • Scimarad #101 5 years ago

    "But I'm not a big fan of the music. The sound effects are good enough, but the music is just soulless and boring. And that's a shame, because a lot of dramatic scenes require a good score to feel as dramatic as it can be. Instead some scenes just feels devoid of life and too artificial. It's probably my biggest problem with a lot of other jrpgs than the Square series. For me to soak in the atmosphere completely, it gotta have a good soundtrack."

    You might have hit the nail on the head with that observation - I do really take a lot of notice of the soundtrack in a game and that could explain why I don't get on with this one. To me an RPG is definitely missing something if it doesn't have at least a passable soundtrack as the music really tends to set the tone for locations and events. To me Xenosaga Ep1 got pretty boring because none of the locations had music despite the game having a fantastic soundtrack judging from the OST.

    I know a lot of people really don't tend to notice the music in a game so that could explain why I'm not a fan and lots of people are. It really tends to annoy me when there is a an JRPG that proves popular but I don't like - It just really bugs me that I don't get it and could be missing out on an apparently enjoyable game for some reason I can't quite grasp...





  • Blerk #102 5 years ago

    My point is if you want a game where you avoid enemies then play an action game, not a scripted RPG made only of 2 things - story and fighting. Because if a scripted RPG states you must fight here then fight you must. Sure, its jarring when you get no warning but the principle is not bad in my opinion.

    So let me get this straight here... you prefer the game to dictate what you should do and when you should do it, rather than letting you have a bit of choice in the matter? Surely that's not what RPGs are about? I thought the whole point was making your own choices.

    Just because you can see and avoid the beasties on the field doesn't mean you have to. You could use it to your advantage instead to get a first hit, attack from behind, whatever.

    An RPG with visible, avoidable creatures is still an RPG. It doesn't automatically become an action game, it just becomes less random. Surely less random is always good? Would you prefer it if the outcome of your battles was random too?

  • Mr_Whacker #103 5 years ago

    Well no thats not what I think. I've been saying the concept of random battles is sound although the way its done standardly can be bad. Really it ought be random placement of enemies in more games like God of War. Randomness introduces challenge, invites the player to think ahead and makes a bounded world more interesting. And I make a distinction between the standard JRPG and and a real RPG. JRPGs are not any kind of RPG except in name. Their choice is illusiory (which is fine if you like it). You are told what character to be, how to advance the plot (ooh, your choice to do collecting missions or not, wow) so why is it so bad that they also tell you when you have to fight? All fits the game style perfectly to me.

    Either a game gives me real choice like Oblivion or it sets me a clear challenge. I like both but not one pretending to be the other.

    So no less random is not always better. For example if God of War was capable of surprising me with the odd minotaur then I'd play it through again.

    As I said, JRPG's are a 20 year old formula. Zelda helped set the standard and yet it moved on as soon as it could and is now setting new standards. Enchanted Arms (and majority of others) add nothing we didn't see on the NES except pretty graphics and a different character. Which I find to be rarely as sophisticated as a book or film and barely worthy of the precious title 'interactive'. Randomness is the least of the worries. And I was glad the inclusion of random battles didn't affect the score of this game massively.

  • OnlyMe #104 5 years ago

    I'm glad not every title out there tries something new, it gives us a choice (oh, the irony). Sometimes it's nice to play something you're already familiar with.

  • Blerk #105 5 years ago

    Well, I wouldn't call Zelda an RPG at all. It's an action-adventure. And as for it 'setting new standards', the core gameplay hasn't really changed at all since Link to the Past. That's not a bad thing, but it's a bad example to use here.

    Final Fantasy set the scene for the JRPG and yes, to a certain extent most JRPGs do still follow its lead. But there are some parts of its design which really do need to die. Random battles are the most significant of them - they are the product of a lack of processing power and add nothing to the game itself. With the hardware issues out of the way, there is absolutely no need for them to persist - they have no place in the modern JRPG.

  • OnlyMe #106 5 years ago

    You seem to forget that there are actually people who LIKE random encounters. Why wouldn't there be place for both? You said rpg was all about choice, well, what about choice outside of the game? Shouldn't there be a choice to play a game with random encounters or one without? Or does every game have to stay the same? Some like the classic style better. I prefer the battlesystem and random encounters in FFX over the KOTOR system, for instance.

  • Blerk #107 5 years ago

    I guess I just find it difficult to fathom why anyone would prefer random encounters. Perhaps you could explain why you like them better?

  • thefilthandthefury #108 5 years ago

    I like random encounters very much. It's just much more tense to not know what's coming. Just a personal preference, no real reason behind it.

  • Mr_Whacker #109 5 years ago

    The whole JRPG thing needs to be put in perspective. The entire genre is a product of its time and the limited capabilities but hasn't moved on. Why are random battles the biggest problem? How about identikit stories and characters? Pointless NPCs. Backtracking. All worse than random encounters to me. Its 2006 and I want more than a story book from my digital entertainment. I want it to react to me and surprise me! And that applies to any genre.

    Why doesn't Zelda count as a JRPG? Upgradable character, meaty story, side missions, emphasis on chatting to NPCs. It evolved from allegorical sprites to true representation as soon as it could for the increased gameplay it offers. It also cut all the crap that other JRPGs (which aren't RPGs either) dress themselves up in to make them appear more than a vehicle for wearing out your X button. And thats the point - these are rarely RPGs so why should you expect any choice about what goes on? Random battles are just one example of their aged gameplay. In fact the fighting is the only part I'd describe as 'game' so the more the better and when I don't expect it as well. So why is unpredictablilty in a an otherwise tightly scripted game bad? Its the bit that livens it up for me! Is it bad in Zelda when enemies spawn on Hyrule Field?

    I think what you are arguing against is surprise battles with unseen foes, not the regularity they occur. I'm saying that in any game when a room always contains the same stuff then the game gets dull.
    Edited by 1 at 20/09/06 @ 11:45

  • Steroyd #110 5 years ago

    JRPG's are RPG's because you're taking on the "Role" of a character. -_-

    under that definition anyway the likes of Zelda, Mario etc are RPG's in their own right.

    But my definition of an RPG and also the definiion of a RPG and what seems to be the media press like gaming magazines and the internet etc is a game that has the statistical setup of a character who's abilities can increase and get stronger with experience.

  • Mr_Whacker #111 5 years ago

    But you aren't taking on the role, just watching it. The characters role is entirely mapped out.

    That would make every game that has a charcter an RPG. And they just aren't. Imagine buying AD&D and it telling you you MUST be a wizard called Gareth and Gareth MUST kill certain monsters in a certain order.

  • kangarootoo #112 5 years ago

    @Mr_Whacker

    "Sorry Kanga, avoidance isn't always an option and you know it. If you've never had a pissed up nutter start laying into you in the street for no reason at some point in your life then you're either lucky or play too many games indoors. I can probably guess which. "

    Heehee, not in my home town matey. I've got the scars and so have they.

    Anyway, I think you were taking my point waaaay too literally. Plus I didn't say anything was ALWAYS an option. Jesus, I can't even remember what the original point was, safe to say it wasn't really about the high street on a friday night.

    "Nice to have a proper chat about games though instead of just slagging off hardware we haven't played on!"

    Amen to that.


    @GordonJ

    "I'd hate to try and do the beast shrine without that skill :)"

    Is that some kind of dance? It does sound a bit tricky.

  • Hog-lumps #113 5 years ago

    But you aren't taking on the role, just watching it. The characters role is entirely mapped out.

    But you seem to be referring to the level of freedom as being the very definition of a RPG.

    If that's the case, then is Grand theft Auto an RPG? It has freedom of choice, leveling up, constantly improving equipment and dialogue with other characters. All hallmarks of an RPG yet people consider it to be an action game. Who's right?

    Edited by 2 at 20/09/06 @ 12:22

  • kangarootoo #114 5 years ago

    "I like random encounters very much. It's just much more tense to not know what's coming. Just a personal preference, no real reason behind it."

    Best post on the matter so far. Specifically the "Just a personal preference, no real reason behind it" bit.

  • Carpathian #115 5 years ago

    [mock advert style]

    "This thread brought to you in conjunction with Random Battles, the gamers phrase of choice"

    [/mock advert style]

  • Mr_Whacker #116 5 years ago

    Randomness gives surprise, lifespan and challenge. All good things.

    I define an RPG as having meaningful character creation that affects gameplay along with enough choice to give decisions with consequences. Oblivion has that, FF games do not.

    And yeah, I was mid rant and missed your joke kanga. In fact I should assume all your posts are less than serious as a default.

    Anyway, aside from all that I wish I really did have a magic arm.

  • Steroyd #117 5 years ago

    FFX-2 gives you that choice and "freedom".

    But at the end of it all you get one of two endings....

  • OnlyMe #118 5 years ago

    Sid Meier's Pirates!, the original, had random encounters instead of being able to see the enemies on the map. Of course, it felt a bit lonely at times, but it was always exciting to find out what kind of ship you saw, and where they were from, and if they were normal merchants, pirates or pirate hunters. The remake had all the ships on the map, and you were never surprised, and outracing them all were mostly very easy, by just going into the nearest town. It kinda ruined the gameplay somewhat.

    Like others, I also like the suspense and surprise moment random encounters bring you. Always keeps you on the toe, and constantly make sure that you've enough life (hp) left just incase you encounter some extra strong beasts.

  • psorcerer #119 5 years ago

    AdamOfEternia
    > How on earth is giving this game a 7 / 10 fanboyism?

    Even looking at this game is fanboyism.
    Sane people review Okami instead. :)

  • CitizenGeek #120 5 years ago

    Not Final Fantasy. Not buying.