Dungeon Siege Comments by Gestalt

'Chris Taylor's much-hyped dungeon crawler gets the once over'

oooo errrr ... Matron !

First review i've seen of this game to get below an 8. Is the minimum spec accurate anyone? my bro's pc is a k6-2 450 with tnt2 16mg, will it be ok?

'my bro's pc is a k6-2 450 with tnt2 16mg'

Thats a bit low, I would have thought. One thing you could upgrade very cheaply, would be the graphics card. You could pick up a Geforce 2 MMX for next to nothing these days.

behind all that shrubbery

Bring us a shrubbery...

Hmmm, I agree with some of your points, but I think you are being a bit harsh. I played it for about 10-15 hours, completely oblivious of any problems with it. In fact, I thought it was the mutt's nuts. I was completely absorbed by the scenary, the progression, the urge to get more cool stuff, the whole damned thing.

Admittedly, after this initial 10-15 hours I've lost some of my initial enthusiasm, but it still remains a very competent title and has a great deal of multiplayer potential.

I was looking forward to this and I'm rather glad the demo came out before I bought it. It's a very pretty click-a-thon whereas Diablo II is an ugly click-a-thon, both of which aren't something I want to play. How long before a proper RPG like Morrowind comes out?

The minimum spec is another example of developers trying to suck in as many people as they can without regard to reality. Don't believe it. Double it.

After playing the demo briefly, and discussing the full game with others, whose opinion I trust, the review seems to be a fair comment.

Yet another disappointment.

Currently setting it up for some 8 player LAN madness at lunch - Ill post my thoughts after :)
And thats MX not MMX :P

Brokenkey - "I disagree with the reviewer about the megamap though, it makes the game far easier and quicker to play"

Actually the longer I spent playing the game the more time I spent on the megamap. It does make it much easier and quicker to control your characters and explore the map, but it looks hideously ugly and you miss all the beautiful 3D scenery, which is the game's main attraction really. If I wanted to stare at a dodgy top-down view of the world I might as well just go and play NetHack. ;)


Dr Dave - "after this initial 10-15 hours I've lost some of my initial enthusiasm"

Yeah, it's fun at first and the scenery certainly wows you, but having played the game for 20 hours now I'm really sick of it. Good in short doses, but lacking long term appeal.


Dr Dave - "has a great deal of multiplayer potential"

Unfortunately we have to review the game based on what comes out of the box. It might have great potential, but at the moment the multiplayer support is frankly pants. It's laggy, you can only have up to eight players in a game, the server browser is virtually useless, and it's just not much fun TBH. Plus for some reason half the Dungeon Siege servers in the world seem to be in Hong Kong. Bizarre...

Actually that's probably why I really hate Dungeon Siege - it's been keeping me from installing that Morrowind preview code. ;) /me reaches for the uninstall option.

Oh, and can somebody please tell Microsoft's games department that I really don't want all their save games dumped into the "My Documents" folder on my C: drive. kthx

I think that this review is spot on.

Yep, I agree with it too mostly. Perhaps a little harsh, it will appeal to diablo fans and people who don't like to be too taxed in games. I, like Dave, got about 10 hours in then got utterly bored to death by it. Can't comment on multiplayer because it doesn't work on windows XP (dur!). The modding community could save the game, but as yet gpg haven't chucked out the editor. Let's hope they do before it's too late.

I have always hated games of this sort.

Spot on with the review.

I was really looking forward to this game, after having spent so many happy hours with Total Annihilation. Unfortunately, too much time seems to have been spent on the eye candy, and not enough on the gameplay.

The interface is excellent though. I hope other games start to emulate this style.

The demo for this game is the first 10% of the game, up to past the first town. You can get a pretty good idea of the game from about 3 hours playing time. Friends who have bought the whole game have not disagreed with the validity of what I said further up.

Basically, the game is Progress Quest with a 3D engine. Or as someone on a newsgroup said, "a fantasy action screen saver"

I also think this review is spot on, I as almost everyone else, liked the first hours, that was until I found the game could play itself without me doing nothing, so another point goes to Eurogamer.

P.S. Tiiti - you are missing your points

The game is not the greatest ever, it isn't going to challenge BG2 or NWN as an RPG... but it looks great and at a time where I haven't seen a new PC game that has interested me in months it has provided me with 15+ hours gameplay so far... I'd rate it higher personally, an interesting diversion until NWN comes along.

Frankly any game which gives me 15+ hours of fun is worth the money (£2 per hour), if I go down the pub tonight it will probably cost as much as this game. If I buy a DVD I might watch it twice, if I go to the cinema or theatre the cost adds up quickly. So for the guy who got bored after 20 hours, I think you got fair value.

Awesome Gestalt, exactly the review I had hoped to see. Dungeon Siege is a highly styled and very smooth game, yet deeply flawed. DS is much less of an RPG than even Diablo. What a shame, this could have been terrific, but as it is there is virtually nothing to keep you playing.

Although deeply flawed, I'd rate it as a "must have" game purely for the mod support it seems to be attracting.

Well just finished playing after over-shooting lunch by twenty minutes and I have to say that I enjoyed it alot. So did everyone else playing, and I think were going to be playing for quite a few lunches to come.

kingmob - "I'd rate it as a "must have" game purely for the mod support it seems to be attracting"

Two problems there. 1) Like I already said, we have to rate the game based on what comes out of the box, not what might appear several months down the line, and 2) They haven't actually released any of the mod tools yet.

Let's wait until we see how flexible the engine is and how good the tools are before talking about how great the mod community is. People always get overenthusiastic before a game is released and plan these great spectacular mods they're going to make, and then the game finally comes out and nothing happens.

There's a certain irony in releasing the editing tools months after the actual game considering how much they hyped them before.

Calling this an RPG is pushing it a bit. No plot, no fun.

It certainly has some nice graphics, but alot of its innacurate...case in point, the real arctic does not look like that at all...trees in the arctic...suure. And the gameplay does get kind of old after awhile, not a horrible thing, but it is kind of a let down considering the sheer potential that this game had for goty. Definately a spot on review Gestalt.

I only played the demo very briefly the other day, but I only got about 30 minutes in when I started asking myself "Ok, but where's the stuff where *I* get to decide things?" - and then realised there wasn't any such stuff. So I quit and went back to yearning for NWN.

Click, click, click.

Slash, slash, slash.

Yawn, yawn, yawn.

"Try medium or hard for a challenge if you think it runs on autopilot"

Actually I was playing it on medium.

spot the person who only looked at the score...

Just been playing this, its fun.. but...

Microsoft compromised the game, same as they did with Mechwarrior 4. The "original" vision GPG had for dungeon siege was considerbly more exciting. EG, mutiplayer was for 32 people, and had modes such as capture the castle and dedicated servers. Eg. more of a "normal" online action game.

Microsoft enforced their principle that all their games utilise the zone for multiplayer, which appears to only support DirectPlays WANK 8 player maximum limit.

Been trying to find the article with Chris Taylor where he explained all this when the game was first announced... :/ shame really, cant find it.

That coupple with the fact the netcode is dump (directplay again :/). Just a pitty how shite standards are enforced on good game ideas though draconian measures of manopolistic control.

And yes, i know i cant spell :P

A fun game, a little tedious, but could have been so much more.

Roll on the NWN beta test :)

The Zone in general works with basically everything. I know you access Asheron's Call using the Zone, and rest assured that game works with more than 8 players. Of course, that doesn't mean MS isn't to blame for Dungeon Siege's demise. ;)

Yes, the problem is the annoying parts of a dungeon hack are the biggest part of the game. :) Think Diablo without the clicking. Kind of like playing a board game where the dies always return the statistic average or something. :P

"little more than Gauntlet with a nice 3d engine"

Don't see what's wrong with that really, Gauntlet was fantastic.

It's so much more flexible and interesting than the on-rails Baldur's Gate with its do-this-do-that gameplay.

Well, I guess there's always going to be one 'Eurogamer Special' review the average person will disagree with - and this is mine.

It's so much more flexible and interesting than the on-rails Baldur's Gate
I can't see how anyone would describe any of the Baldur's Gate games (other than the PS2 Dark Alliance one which is still a lot of fun anyway) as being on rails.

It's so much more flexible and interesting than the on-rails Baldur's Gate with its do-this-do-that gameplay.

Oh my, could you have been more wrong?

wrong from your point of view
remember all these comments are opinions not absolute facts.

I found Baldur's gate restrictive and inflexible, while the world to me seemed dead and static. But then I generally despise anything based on any aspect of the AD&D universe.

Contrast that prejudice of mine to Gestalt's prejudice against any game that has suffered 'hype'.

That's pretty fair - I was thinking it would be more like Diablo than Baldur's Gate, and in that I was very pleasantly surprised.

One thing the 'soulless' aspect of the game allowed me to do was to project myself onto the characters and feel like they were my characters rather than someone elses. In Baldur's Gate I felt from the start, where you have to pick a pre-made portrait for your character, that I was playing someone elses characters, and that I was just looking after them for a time. I got the impression that without me they could easily have completed the quest on their own, and that I was merely an observer. With Dungeon Siege I feel like I am leading the quest instead.

"I feel more strongly about the characters"

There were characters? ;)

Dungeon Siege is a childrens game. Gameplay has been pared to the minimum so the little darlings don't get confused. No amount of monsters to slash doesn't make up for an empty game.

I like Dungeon Siege coz it has a Burlap of Badger :*)

Anyway if you liked Diablo2 you'll like this too. If prefer Baldurs Gate (PC) you wont like it. If you liked Baldurs Gate (PS2) you'll like it.

PS the cheapest price is not the price above you can get it for £24.99 from www.play.com. they just started doing PC stuff. GTA3 (PC) for £19.99, yeh!

If you liked Baldurs Gate (PS2) you'll like it.
I liked Baldur's Gate:Dark Alliance and I didn't like the DS demo.

I just had a go at the demo and it does seem pretty MOR. It looks nice and the way you develop skills is neat, but the problem is combat seems too damn easy (you don't even need to click, just stand next to the monsters and watch youre character take them on) and there just aren't enough different abilities. That's not even touching on the complete lack of RPGing in the storyline.

I like Dungeon Siege coz it has a Burlap of Badger :*)

It does? Now this should have been mentioned in the review...

/me runs out to buy it

It's got lots of badger items, actually.

I think the review is focusing a tad too much on what DS is missing, and hardly mentions the things that are there, for someone who hasn't played the game yet that presents a very lacking overview of the game. Also, some of the things criticised display a rather poor understanding (or lack of willingness to learn) of the game and its brilliantly intuitive interface, like:

"So again, if one character chases after a monster he can end up disappearing into the fog of war. All you can do then is select the errant character and give the camera a couple of seconds to move to him. This doesn't work while the game is paused, ..."

First of all my characters never ran away into the fog of war, just turn their AI to your liking (you can even order them not to move at all if you prefer micro managing fights), that's what the party AI menus are there for! As for re-centering the view, ever thought of selecting the character you want centered and quickly unpausing/pausing the game (just hit spacebar twice) quickly? The camera will then move to the newly selected character while in pause mode. Quite simple really...

"... so in the meantime the rest of your party will decide that you have selected the wayward wanderer as their group leader, and drop whatever they were doing to run towards him. Not very clever. "

Also an option that can easily be turned off in the on-screen party AI menu at the click of the mouse. Sorry but throughout the review it really seems as if the reviewer didn't even try to like the game.

Still, I can second many of the reviewers other thoughts abotu DS, like the lack of depth and so on. While I greatly enjoyed playing through the single player and look forward to met with some friends for some multiplayer fun one of the next weekends, the game MAJORLY lacks any kind of involving plot or interesting characters, apart from being ridiculously linear!

Also, it must be the first game ever, where I actually KICKED OUT my MAIN CHARACTER when someone better came along after 2/3rds of the game - its hard to really do any kind of role-playing in DS, I never could have parted with my main characters from other RPGs, no matter the stats. Although for some reason I must say its cool the game doesn't even mind you kicking out the "hero" for someone better, suits the rest of the gameplay mechanics. ;)

What I also dislike is that there are no breaks or rewards during the game (except even more items). Towns are merely a place to pick up potions and sell stuff - and off you are again along that one long trail that is the "world" of Ehb. The NPCs are shallow and I couldn't care less for the fate of the people living in the kingdom, they were such a boring bunch anyway! One or two side Quests per town (I can only remember 2 throughout the entire game) and NPCs that actually MOVED AROUND a bit, instead of standing nailed to their place day and night, would have done a lot for the game too.

To sum it up, it lacks depth, story and interaction - but for some reason I didn't care, at least whilst I was playing! That is the brilliance of the game in contrast to all the obvious weaknesses.

Exploring just that tiny bit more of the map, getting just one more cool magical item, just raising that one stat to finally be able use the kickass weapon i just found - THAT is what drives this game, THAT is what the game is about, and it does it better than any game before. All combined in an incredibly easy and intuitive, yet powerfull interface, that finally puts an end to the days of swollen fingers from endless clicking (like in Diablo).

DS is something for gatherers and stat builders, not for RPG fans who like dramatic plots, but it doesn't want to be, so why blaim it?

I'd score it 7,5 out of 10, the reason is simple - never score a game based on what ITS NOT, score it on what it IS, and it is great fun for many people, at least for up to, and sometimes exceeding 20 hours, which seems to be the landmark these days..... :)

PS: I see the missing editor as a HUGE problem. Once played through, the single player replay value of DS is basically non-existent and only good add-ons and MODs could change that. With the tools still not released, good MODs are still months away though, and until then, chances are I already erased DS from my harddisk... :(

"an option that can easily be turned off in the on-screen party AI menu at the click of the mouse"

Unfortunately I didn't notice that button at all, so it can't be that obvious, and it's not mentioned anywhere in the manual. :(


"Exploring just that tiny bit more of the map, getting just one more cool magical item, just raising that one stat to finally be able use the kickass weapon i just found - THAT is what drives this game, THAT is what the game is about, and it does it better than any game before"

Ah, so it's a single player action-RPG for Everquest fans. ;) That might be enough for some people, but personally I found it pretty repetitive after a while. Getting a bigger sword, increasing your melee combat skill from 5.4 to 5.5 or finding another narrow wooded valley just wasn't enough to keep me involved in the long run.

Hey Gestalt, I've always wondered, what happens if there's a game in the office that you've reviewed and no one likes, what do you do with it, bin it?

what do you do with it, bin it?

They jiffybag it and sends it to mouse.

"sends it to mouse."

Excuse my ignorance/stupidity, but what does that mean?

FWB - check out the right hand column here - where, incidentally, I see a familiar name has been added... There was me wondering why Shinji hadn't posted in ages...