Dead or Alive 4 Review

By Rob Fahey Published 26 January, 2006

Kick in the tits.

Version tested: Xbox 360

Racing game? Check. First-person shooter? Check. Platform game? Check. How about sports games - got all the main bases covered there? Check. Beat-'em-up?

Oops.

Tomonobu Itagaki and his team are arriving fashionably late for the Xbox 360 launch. It's okay; you're allowed to do that sort of thing when you're cool enough to call your development studio "Team Ninja" and wear sunglasses indoors, in winter, without being laughed at. At least not to your face. Now that he's here, Dead or Alive 4 in tow, we can get the party started. Right?

Well... Maybe.

Parallax

Something interesting about writing a review of a game like Dead Or Alive 4 is that over the course of the analysis and review process, you prepare several different reviews of the game in your mind. In this particular case, as an unashamed fan of the Dead or Alive series (with the possible exception of the very pretty but hugely flawed DOA3, of which more later), I had already constructed the bare bones of a review before the game even arrived through my letterbox, based on screenshots, interview comments and videos.

If I had written the review that was half-formed in my head before turning the Xbox 360 on and popping the game in the drive, it would have read something like this: "Dead or Alive 4 is the latest game in the popular Dead Or Alive series, and brings beat-'em-up gameplay to the next-gen consoles for the first time. It's very pretty and high resolution. The characters and environments look great. Things break a lot when you fight, clothes and hair flaps around a fair bit, and the water on many stages looks nice. You can play online against other people and there's a customisable lobby system which is a nice incentive to play more so you can buy cooler items for your lobby. It's lots of fun, because DOA has always been lots of fun. Yes, the breasts still wobble. 9/10."

So, those were the opinions which I expected to hold after playing DOA4. Let's leave this one to sit in the oven for two hours, and check back to see what I thought at that stage, courtesy of the helpful notes I was scribbling down between frenzied bouts of thumb-destroying action.

Stage Two

'Dead or Alive 4' Screenshot kokoro

New girl Kokoro. Point out her freakishly large head, and she'll punch your bloody lights out, sunshine.

Here are excerpts from my notes about Dead Or Alive 4 from two hours into the game, formed into the review I would have written if I'd dropped the game at that point and rushed to my trusty word processor.

"Dead or Alive 4 is the latest game in the popular Dead Or Alive series, and brings beat-'em-up gameplay to the next-gen consoles for the first time - although I'm not sure why they bothered. Rushed out for launch and suffering from many crashes, the game is a step backwards for the series in almost every respect aside from the graphics, which have been significantly upgraded in the transition to the Xbox 360 but still don't feel like anything more than a somewhat cautious and uneven evolution over Team Ninja's Xbox titles. The gameplay, while improved greatly over the hugely unbalanced DOA3, still fails to reach the quality marked by DOA2 and DOA Ultimate, with extremely excessive air juggle combos and little strategy to each frantic bout; a problem compounded by an extremely poorly conceived and frustrating single-player mode which even veterans of the series will find unfairly difficult. The online modes, while promising, are the victim of shoddy netcode which makes it almost impossible to compete against distant rivals without experiencing juddering lag that renders the game unplayable. A crushing disappointment. 3/10."

On balance, those notes aren't me being excessively negative or simply overreacting to the game not living up to potentially unfair expectations I had in my head. As my housemates, forced to suffer my enraged bellowing of every swearword in the English language and many helpful ones imported from other languages can attest, at about two hours into the game, with a few blasts at single-player, some online play and a dash of two-player under my belt, I was uncommonly angry with DOA4. I felt that Team Ninja, wowed by the power of a new console and placed under amazing pressure to have a game ready for launch, hadn't so much dropped the ball, as thrown it at the ground with astonishing force.

Thankfully, the ball bounced - at least to some extent.

On The Rebound

'Dead or Alive 4' Screenshot chicken

The stunning seaside level. You can break all that stuff, and even annoy the chicken - if that's your kind of thing.

About five hours into the game, my notes become more appreciative, and at the point I'm at now - just counting the seconds until my ten-hour achievement on Xbox Live pops up - it's fair to say that my views have mellowed appreciably. While still of the opinion that Dead or Alive 4 has been rushed out to meet the Xbox 360 launch and has suffered in the process, it's more apparent to me what Team Ninja were trying to do in some areas, and what I had originally taken to be failures are actually quite successful.

Where the game does best, obviously, is with its graphics. Ever since Dead Or Alive 2, the series has been as much about eye-candy as about gameplay, although for the most part it has managed to balance the two to an impressive degree. Dead Or Alive 4 is very obviously a quick and dirty evolution of the Xbox games in the series, but even this alone is hugely impressive - and on a technical level, DOA4 running in HDTV resolutions is by far the best-looking console game ever created.

Some stages are more impressive than others; a personal favourite is the seaside resort stage, where the battle can include punching opponents through crates of fruit, knocking items off stalls in the marketplace, or even kicking someone out onto the beach via a bunch of balloons. The textures are high resolution, the lighting is great, and the interactivity really has the feeling of a next-generation videogame - one which offers something we genuinely didn't see in the last generation of titles. Some other stages are simpler, such as the wrestling rings with electrified bars, but even here there are nice touches like the fully 3D spectators holding signs with appreciative slogans on.

Unfortunately, the quality is patchy at best. The level of interactivity seen on the seaside level isn't repeated anywhere else in the game, where interaction basically falls to the level of the occasional vase smashing when you knock someone into it, and some of the stages which have been imported and updated from the Xbox versions of the game include textures which we're sure have been lifted straight from the Xbox, and which look quite ugly in HD resolutions. Peculiar glitches ruin the overall effect in places - like the dinosaurs on the prehistoric-themed stage, which are hugely impressive but look utterly out of place since they don't cast any shadows.

Pixel Perfect

'Dead or Alive 4' Screenshot ryu

Imagine Ryu's embarrassment at being caught pretending to be Spider-Man in the living room!

The fantastic graphics are also apparent on the character models, as you'd expect, but sadly so too is the inconsistency which marks DOA4 out as a rushed product. Most of the characters boast fine touches on their clothes or hair, with some beautiful effects being used to render realistic metal, leather and cloth - in fact, the only material we noted being a little dodgy is the fur, which simply looks wrong and, rather disturbingly, makes aging martial arts master Gen Fu look like he's got candyfloss all over his legs. Especially notable are Ryu's ninja costume, as seen in Ninja Gaiden - a combination of the astonishing detail on his forehead crest and beautiful lighting effects on the outfit itself make it look spectacular - and new character Kokoro's kimono, which flows and gleams silkily in the light in a superbly realistic manner.

However, one thing which isn't done well, sadly, is skin. It's not for want of detail - the fact that individual veins on Jann Lee's arms stand out is a testament to how far Team Ninja is prepared to go for detail on their characters - but rather because of a misplaced artistic decision to make the character's skin bland and anime-style while making their clothing and surroundings as realistic and life-like as possible. The effect is a somewhat unsettling one, not dissimilar to watching a group of plastic Barbie dolls cavort around your screen in a disturbing parody of living creatures. While I appreciate that this is an artistic decision on Tecmo's part, a little experimentation with skin textures could go a long way to making the next DOA into a much better looking game.

Overall, the feeling is that Team Ninja are experimentally stretching their wings on the Xbox 360, trying out concepts like interactive stages, cloth physics and fabric shaders, but not actually using the power of the system with any level of confidence. That's to be expected to some extent from any launch title, but from a team with this level of experience and respect, is nonetheless disappointing. On a more positive front, it says good things about Xbox 360 - if DOA4 can look so good in certain respects, just wait until Team Ninja and its ilk are turning out games where everything is up to that standard...

And yes, the breasts still bounce. I'd swear they're even bigger than before, too.

If you can see Chuck Norris...

The other thing which DOA4 gets right, I've concluded after much agonising over the matter, is its battle system. The problem, for me, is that the game builds on the deeply flawed system used in DOA3, rather than on the far superior gameplay used in DOA2, which the team returned to for DOA Ultimate on the Xbox. I instantly disliked it for this reason - reminded of the incredibly easy counter system in DOA3 which made for frustrating and unsatisfying bouts by allowing you to reverse even the attack of a skilled opponent simply by waggling the stick and hammering block.

However, DOA4 has toned down this system significantly by narrowing the window in which you can counter an attack, forcing anyone who wishes to use this system to actually time their counter with a high degree of precision. Counters aren't the be-all and end-all of the game any more, not only because they're harder to pull off, but because you can also reverse a counter and deliver an incredibly powerful attack to your staggered opponent - which makes reliance on them into a risky proposition against a decently skilled player.

'Dead or Alive 4' Screenshot eliot

New boy Eliot. He's an English schoolboy. I think the local comprehensive has a similar uniform, actually.

This makes for a much faster and more offensive game than previous DOAs, which is a change that I'd hesitate to classify as either better or worse. The more tactical gameplay of DOA2 appealed to me, but there's a certain beauty to the short, brutal rounds that DOA4 encourages. In one respect, however, the team seem to have taken this idea a little too far; they've beefed up your options when your opponent is on the ground, allowing you to continue to inflict damage on an opponent before they can recover and even making it possible to force a recovery. I can see why they did this - the idea of pressing the advantage in this situation is attractive - but in reality, it's not a good move, since it removes the brief respite that being knocked to the floor used to afford, and makes it much harder for someone to come back from a disadvantaged position. As any sports fan can tell you, that makes for a more boring game.

Another aspect I'm not sure about is the newfound power of the air juggling system, which was always a key feature in DOA but which has been beefed up even further here. It seems that even more attacks keep you in the air - just inches off the ground, but incapable of moving or blocking - or perhaps it's simply that the same attacks keep you in the air for longer; either way, it's possible to rack up ridiculous combos of quite basic moves while your opponent is entirely incapacitated, leaving them relying on you making a mistake to get back into the game. Beating an opponent who never had a chance to fight back stopped being fun for most people at around the same time that they stopped enjoying pulling the wings off butterflies.

All that being said, the fighting system remains extremely finely tuned in most respects, albeit with a worrying tendency towards the hardcore end of the market. It can be tough to tell what height an attack is registering as, which makes it hard to block, for example - a flaw which Itagaki has publicly explained by saying that you need to learn to play as every character so that you know what their moves do. Thanks, but no thanks; many of us who understand that sunglasses are for outside are unlikely to even attempt such a feat, rendering this aspect of gameplay sadly inaccessible and feeling frustratingly random. Luckily, we're never likely to play against anyone who does possess this knowledge, and at the medium level - well beyond button bashing, but not into the realms of learning all the characters off by heart - the game is extremely well balanced and fun.

Flying Solo

'Dead or Alive 4' Screenshot thermodynamics

Leg-warmers and denim hot-pants - demonstrating a misunderstanding not only of fashion, but of thermodynamics.

So far, what I've discussed is relevant to everything in the game, but I'm really only referring to the traditional way of playing beat-'em-ups - namely, two players on a single console. Unfortunately, the other play options offered by DOA4, while they certainly benefit from the solid fighting system and the extremely shiny graphics, are fatally flawed in a number of crucial respects.

First of all, the single-player mode - often overlooked in beat 'em ups, but actually pretty popular among players who don't always have someone else to keep the sofa warm with them. DOA4's single-player modes, unfortunately, are absolutely dreadful - not because of any particular flaw with their structure (fight AI opponent, lather, rinse, repeat), but because the AI for computer-controlled characters is rubbish, in the worst possible sense.

At a simple level, it's easy to write a perfect AI for a beat-'em-up - just make a system that can always block or counter, and can always attack when an opponent is staggered or open. Piece of cake. What's difficult is writing an AI that actually plays like a human, blocking in response to perceived attacks, falling for good feints, taking risks that leaves them open to attack if they miss, and missing the timing on difficult moves occasionally. It's difficult, but not impossible - fighting games of the past have done it.

DOA4 doesn't even attempt the latter approach. Instead, we get a "perfect" AI which simply makes some absolutely brain-dead mistakes on earlier settings in order to make it possible for human opponents to defeat it - and which ramps up the difficulty extremely quickly, even on the easiest of the game's three difficulty settings. The result is an AI which is utterly frustrating to play against, and which you never feel like you've beaten because you're actually good - you beat it because the CPU rolled the dice and decided to make a completely ridiculous schoolboy error at an opportune moment for you. It's like winning the lottery; you're glad it happened, but under no illusions that you did anything great in the process.

'Dead or Alive 4' Screenshot flesh

We're not sure how showing off more flesh than a butcher's counter is going to help her win, but if it works for her...

Nowhere is this exemplified more than in the final boss battles in the game, which pit you against a translucent, floaty version of the female ninja, Kasumi. These are an exercise in pure frustration, since the boss character can block or reverse the majority of your attacks, is capable of teleporting around at random - even during combos - and to add insult to injury, is faster than any character in the game and has a number of throw attacks which take control away from you for a very long time and show you a cut-scene not dissimilar to Final Fantasy's oft-derided non-interactive summon animations - a flaw also found in a few other DOA4 characters, but not to this extent.

Whinging about difficulty seems a little infantile, but in this instance I feel that it's justified. I was a huge fan of Team Ninja's Xbox classic Ninja Gaiden, which was extraordinarily difficult but rewarded you with an enormous sense of achievement when you got the hang of the gameplay system and honed your skills to the point where you could proceed. DOA4's single-player game does nothing of the sort, instead simply making you hammer away until the computer player makes a calculated mistake and you win. The only thing you'll hone is new ways of throwing your Xbox 360 pad across the room with enough force to satisfy your rage, but enough caution to make sure it hits something cushioned (hopefully).

Lobbying

The final mode of play worth discussing is the online system. This is an area Team Ninja first introduced in DOA Ultimate, and it's been significantly upgraded in DOA4 with the addition of a new lobby system. In effect, this allows you to create an avatar for yourself (in cute anime style) and select a lobby layout, which you can then populate with items you buy in "Zack's Store" - where you can also buy new accessories for your avatar. When you start an online game, other players can enter your lobby - where they can stroll around, talk to each other and watch matches on a screen in the lobby - before joining the game in progress. It's all a little superfluous, since most players will just enter the game straight away after joining the lobby, but it's a nice touch nonetheless, and earning money to spend in the store is a good incentive to get you playing more online games.

'Dead or Alive 4' Screenshot tom

I actually BIT the CONTROLLER while playing against this boss. WITH MY TEETH. They hurt a bit now.

However, the game is afflicted with a problem which is likely to cool your enjoyment of online play significantly - namely, absolutely horrible net code. The same lag and stuttering play which plagued DOA Ultimate make a return in DOA4, and it even exhibits exactly the same bug seen in Ultimate where a game that was relatively playable (albeit dropping frames here and there, resulting in a very jerky look) between two people will come crashing down into a jerky, stuttering mess as soon as another player joins the lobby and begins spectating. Broadband connections which can play FPS titles online smoothly as silk deliver games of DOA4 which are simply unplayable.

For all the attention paid to the lobby system, this is a killer for the online modes of the game. There are quite a few people playing online, and we wish them luck - but the outdated frame-locked net code is going to render this title totally useless to anyone who isn't on very high speed, low latency broadband, and playing against other players who are all on an equally good connection. Create a two-player restricted lobby to play against a friend who's also on broadband in the UK, and everything should be fine. Try anything else, and you're guaranteed an exercise in frustration.

Boob Job

While I've mellowed on DOA4 - a process helped significantly by the fact that it seemed to crash less often in later sessions of play, something which I suspect means that my Xbox 360 was the real culprit here - I'm still quite disappointed by the game. The graphics are nice, the characters are sexy (if plastic models are your thing) and well-animated, and the gameplay system is certainly better than DOA3's, and almost up there with DOA2 - but both the online and single-player modes are flawed to the point where they're simply not enjoyable in any way.

In summary, then, if you're planning to play this game lots with siblings, housemates, workmates, or whatever - with both of you sitting on the sofa and holding a pad each - then it's a game that's easy to recommend. If you're planning on playing the single-player much, it's an abomination, and you shouldn't touch it with a bargepole; and on Xbox Live, it's simply so flawed as to be unplayable in anything other than a basic 1v1 lobby, which arguably makes it into a pretty poor investment unless you have a friends list teeming with people who want to play. Taking all those aspects into account makes this a hard game to score - so when reading this verdict, those of you who've bothered to also read the review should mentally mark the game up one or even two points if you're a big two-player fan, and mentally disregard the entire product if you're hoping for online or single-player fun. There's little to be had here.

6 / 10

Read the Eurogamer.net scoring policy
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About Rob Fahey

Read more articles from Rob by visiting the Rob Fahey archive page.

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Comments (289) Latest comment 4 years ago

Comments threads automatically close after 30 days, but please feel free to continue chatting on the forum!

  • Daan #1 6 years ago

    Whoa. Lower than expected.

  • Tiiti #2 6 years ago

    Ouch

    Yet again EG give the lowest score out of pretty much every other site.
    Just like Kameo :p

    htt p://www.gamerankings.com/htmlpages4/928260.asp

    EG is getting tough!
    Edited by 1 at 26/01/06 @ 15:09

  • caligari #3 6 years ago

    Oh dear.

    What's his name...errr...Le...Le Dilly...LeDillenenta or whatever his name is.

    He's NOT going to be a happy bunny.

  • Teeth #4 6 years ago

    THE FUCKING RIDGE RACER ADVERTS ARE CRIPPLING MY COMPUTER

  • manic_mouse #5 6 years ago

    "EG is getting tough!"

    For forgot to add "On 360 games".

  • Eighthours #6 6 years ago

    Hmm.... I'll be checking out the lag issue tonight, methinks.

  • Blerk #7 6 years ago

    6!

    /brews tea
    /opens deckchair
    /takes phone off hook

  • Thamuhacha #8 6 years ago

    >Are there any fighting games that work well over the internet?

    No. But any of them that don't have online get pilloried for it.

  • Perry #9 6 years ago

    her head is very weird. Good caption!

  • Rambaldi #10 6 years ago

    Whoohahahahahhhahahaa..ha...haa...aaaaahhh

    aheh..sigh.....

    A global average of 88% and yet ANOTHER pedictably low score for a 360 title by EG. Do they know something we don't? (like, say, Sony's sort code and account number)

    And before ya start, I don't care.

  • Shinji #11 6 years ago

    But yet you care enough to post. Aww. Warms the cockles of your heart, it does.

  • Bertie Verified Senior Staff Writer, Eurogamer.net #12 6 years ago

    You lot are so predictable at giving your opinion and not a mishmash of other people's!

  • rauper Verified Managing Director, Eurogamer Network #13 6 years ago

    Register an account and *then* post ;)

  • myiagros #14 6 years ago

    EG now seem to be siding with Edge magazines style of reviewing. (I think they gave it a 7)

  • Shinji #15 6 years ago

    Bertie :- Damn, is that where I went wrong? I thought I was meant to play the game and say what I thought - I didn't realise I was meant to leave the game in its box and just read what it says on GameRankings!

    I'd have saved so much time if I'd known that before, too :(
    Edited by 1 at 26/01/06 @ 15:22

  • Furbs #16 6 years ago

    Anyone here read the review yet?

  • Hicksy #17 6 years ago

    Hmm not a £40+ game then :/

    /waits patietly for price drop

  • Feanor #18 6 years ago

    I's weird. This review seems very fair, and all the problems mentioned are the kind of problems that would put me off buying this game. And yet, the EG score is at the very bottom of the DOA 4 gamerankings page like the problems didn't exist in the versions all the other sites reviewed.

  • manic_mouse #19 6 years ago

    Halo 3: -7/10

    You heard it here first!

  • Perry #20 6 years ago

    I have Furbs

  • Bertie Verified Senior Staff Writer, Eurogamer.net #21 6 years ago

    Sounds like Rob needs to learn2play /giggle

  • manic_mouse #22 6 years ago

    "single player described as not worthy of touching with a barge pole! "

    Did he not realise it was a fighting game? You know, the games that NEVER have a good/longlasting single player mode?

  • Frogger #23 6 years ago

    Is there a possibility for EG to display full resolution screenshots instead of these fixed sized ones ?
    Now that HD consoles are coming on the market, it would be great to see those screenshots at their best...

  • tengu #24 6 years ago

    "Halo 3: -7/10

    You heard it here first!"

    Wow, you think it'll be that bad? Well... if it's like the second game, you may be right :)

    Looking forward to checking the comedy in these comments again this evening, should be lollerific :)
    Edited by 1 at 26/01/06 @ 15:41

  • Shinji #25 6 years ago

    Did he not realise it was a fighting game? You know, the games that NEVER have a good/longlasting single player mode?

    In my experience, a lot of people enjoy the singleplayer mode in beat 'em up games. It's a short burst of play, not too taxing, easy to pick up and gives you a chance to hone your skills at the game and gradually reduce your times or improve your survival record.

    This only applies if it's actually fun, though. DOA4's, I'd argue, fails that test by being too frustrating and having opponents who behave so unrealistically that skills you pick up in singleplayer are useless in multiplayer.

  • Razzajazz #26 6 years ago

    Aww, donkey balls! I was hoping that this would be the game to convince me to buy a 360, I was really looking forward to online play. Oh well, 'spose I'd better wait until Street Fighter II is available on Xbox Arcade!

  • space_ace #27 6 years ago

    *sigh*

    it should've been the must-have title on the rounded box

  • myiagros #28 6 years ago

    Feanor i absolutely agree with you. Many of the problems outlined sound like points of fact rather than opinion (ie. crashing, lag in online, low res textures).
    How can others have over looked this, if it is indeed the case. Pehaps this is another example of Europe getting a poor quality convert??

  • Bertie Verified Senior Staff Writer, Eurogamer.net #29 6 years ago

    Frogger, I think the original size shots are kept somewhere and it's something that's in the pipeline, to have the option to display them in their original size.

    I might have just told you a pack of lies, but that's what I'm led to believe :)

  • Cyhwuhx #30 6 years ago

    .::: Like Street Fighter Alpha 3's incredible fun and large World Tour? Oh sorry, that must've been a single player mistake on Capcom's behalf then. Let's ring 'em up and ask them to remove it from the upcoming PSP version. Nobody likes a good single player. (That's for manic-mouse btw)
    Edited by 1 at 26/01/06 @ 15:41

  • tengu #31 6 years ago

    "In my experience, a lot of people enjoy the singleplayer mode in beat 'em up games. It's a short burst of play, not too taxing, easy to pick up and gives you a chance to hone your skills at the game and gradually reduce your times or improve your survival record."

    Yeah, this is how I'd describe Soul Calibur. Great single player modes that can last ages, and possibly the best multiplayer fun I've ever had in a game. I'd say Soul Calibur + Dreamcast could well be the greatest combination of launch title and new console I've ever bought, for sheer lastability and fun.

  • #32 6 years ago

    /puts £50 back in pocket

    Class review, perfect score, happy days are here again!

  • Shinji #33 6 years ago

    Regarding crashing - as I said in the review, I'm not convinced that this is down to the game. It may be a problem with my Xbox 360, rather than with DOA4 - so I didn't consider it when making a judgement on the final score.

    I'm also surprised that more comments weren't made about the online problem. The only explanation I can think of is that most reviews have been posted by people using development Xboxes on the Xbox Live test network (which is seperate from the main network), where there is lower traffic, far fewer players in-game in general - and of course, most players are using corporate internet connections, not home DSL or cable.

    We tested this game on a normal UK Xbox 360 using a final boxed copy of the game and the normal Xbox Live network, so that may explain the discrepancy there.

  • myiagros #34 6 years ago

    No frod, it was more, this game has serious flaws which make it unplayable is several respects, dispite being enjoyable in offline multiplayer.

  • mattius30 #35 6 years ago

    The problem i have always had with the Dead or Alive series is the sheer amount of T and A. If there was a balance of female and male characters and costumes etc then I would probably enjoy the games a whole lot more. As it stands, having near-naked, vacant-faced women shaking their money-makers on my TV, it just doesn't appeal. It could be a really sexy, clever game - if there was equality and humour - but it just comes across as desperate and shallow, with the male characters as merely an afterthought.

  • Stickman #36 6 years ago

    This should be fun.

    /joins spectators.

  • J_C_X #37 6 years ago

    I got this game today. I think is a good beat em up. Now I am no fanboy but I think Eurogamer has got a anti 360 agenda.

  • manic_mouse #38 6 years ago

    "In my experience, a lot of people enjoy the singleplayer mode in beat 'em up games. It's a short burst of play, not too taxing, easy to pick up and gives you a chance to hone your skills at the game and gradually reduce your times or improve your survival record.

    This only applies if it's actually fun, though. DOA4's, I'd argue, fails that test by being too frustrating and having opponents who behave so unrealistically that skills you pick up in singleplayer are useless in multiplayer."

    Personally I always find that fighting games are exactly what I don't look for in a game: They're generally all the same (with little innovation), they lack any kind of narrative to engage my brain, they're generally very short (in single player), they don't work all that well online and I find little incentive to invest a lot of time into them.

    This is why Super Smash Bro's is perhaps one of the few fighting games that I've spent any time on: A game with a lot to do (all of which is fun), which rewards achievement and has a smashing (hoho) mulitplayer to top it all off.

  • Glitch #39 6 years ago

    shit hot write up, enjoyed in! well written!

    Teeth, rofl i agree

    bring on SC4 n ES:o

  • Shinji #40 6 years ago

    Personally I always find that fighting games are exactly what I don't look for in a game

    Aye, it's horses for courses. Some people hate beat 'em ups, and find them to be all the same - which is fair enough, I hate sports games and they're somewhat popular with the Youth Of Today, I hear ;)

    Personally I love beat 'em ups and live in a house full of people who also like them, so there are tons of opponents around. I've always been a particular fan of DOA and Soul Calibur - so DOA4's problems both surprised and disappointed me personally, as well as standing out as major issues in writing a review of the game.

  • Eldritch #41 6 years ago

    Imagine how much actual porn 50 quid will buy.

  • mattius30 #42 6 years ago

    "Imagine how much actual porn 50 quid will buy."

    LoL - Now that is how you review Dead or Alive 4 in one sentence!

  • megastar #43 6 years ago

    another triumph for the 360!!!

    lol just kidding dont get your knickers in a twist

  • manic_mouse #44 6 years ago

    "Wow, you think it'll be that bad? Well... if it's like the second game, you may be right :) "

    I suppose we should wait for "The Real Next Gen" tm:

    The pre-rendered revolution!

    ;)

  • Rizo #45 6 years ago

    Ha ha same score as www.hypecheck.com

    It seems Microsoft can't buy everyone :)

  • manic_mouse #46 6 years ago

    "Personally I love beat 'em ups and live in a house full of people who also like them, so there are tons of opponents around. I've always been a particular fan of DOA and Soul Calibur"

    In that environment I would probably be a big beat 'em up fan, because as long as the single player lasts I thoroughly enjoy them. The problem for me is that I mostly play games on my own, as few of my friends are overly interested in games. Those that are generally do not play beat 'em ups (more FPS, adventure and racing games).

    So whenever I buy a beat em up I find that I really don't get much value for money out of them. I was hoping this would change with Xbox LIVE however, as you have highlighted problems with the online aspect of the game, this seems not to be the case.

    I'd much rather look forward to Generation of Chaos on PSP. Now there's a game right up my back alley. ;)

  • Stickman #47 6 years ago

    I heard Eurogamer said that the 360 was really an old shoe box with elastic bands and old chewing gum in.

  • Huntcjna #48 6 years ago

    Rizo do you really need to troll with the address for your piece of shit website?

  • rinoaMW #49 6 years ago

    "Tomonobu Itagaki and his team are arriving fashionably late for the Xbox 360 launch. It's okay; you're allowed to do that sort of thing when you're cool enough to call your development studio "Team Ninja" and wear sunglasses indoors, in winter, without being laughed at."

    with comments like that that stop me reading the next paragraph. Obvious disrespect for team ninja and their work - let me guess.. low review score?

    /checks page 2

    ah yes...

    and another low review score for an xbox 360 game...

    /sigh

  • SirScratchalot #50 6 years ago

    Played it for 8h with friends this saturday and everything the review says is absolutely true. But it´s the only game in town on the 360 soooooo.....
    Also, hearing Bass scream "Tiiiinaaaaaa!" in his end sequence made it all worth it.

    @Rinoa: UM, have you read any interviews with this guy? He´s constantly pished out of his mind, has bodyguards and DOES were shades. All the time. Acting excentric is fine, but I don´t think he´s shocked that people have noticed.
    Edited by 1 at 26/01/06 @ 16:15

  • gamingdave #51 6 years ago

    When was the review done? Were the people you were playing online all in the US? As that would probably explain the lag issues. Maybe once its flooded with UK players this will improve?
    Edited by 1 at 26/01/06 @ 16:16

  • Rizo #52 6 years ago

    Ha ha 360 fanboys are pissed :-)

    They've finally got a review which is not from microsoft :-)

    VF5 is where it's at.

  • Rizo #53 6 years ago

    LeDilettante go back to gamespot and read the review microsoft marketing money paid for.

  • myiagros #54 6 years ago

    gamingdave, that is not stricktly true as most people with broadband in the Uk use BT 1MB over a phone line, OUCH!!

  • rinoaMW #55 6 years ago

    @SirScratchalot

    Yeah i saw an interview once for DoAXV, and yes he did seem ecentric.. i just thought the line "It's okay; you're allowed to do that sort of thing when you're cool enough to call your development studio "Team Ninja"" was bordering on sarcasm.

    i've actually read the review now tho...and altho i'm loathed to admit it, i think i'll buy it from GAME, just to be on the safe side....
    Edited by 1 at 26/01/06 @ 16:23

  • alimokrane #56 6 years ago

    I was expecting an 8 to be honest but to see a 6 Awch! Somewhere Tomonobu Itagaki is PISSED.

  • Ignatius_Cheese #57 6 years ago

    Had a quick go in the local game retailer and it *does* just feel like a hi-res version of DOA:U... Pity as I really love the series

  • Shinji #58 6 years ago

    Actually, it's not sarcasm, or bordering on it. I'm poking fun a bit, but I do actually think Itagaki-san is fucking cool. He's a proper rockstar game developer, even if he is a bit of a mentalist. The only other developer I'd put in the same bracket, off the top of my head, is Chris Metzen from Blizzard. If you didn't know who he was, you'd assume he was a rock or movie star. (When you do know who he is, that's even cooler, as far as I'm concerned...)

  • Teeth #59 6 years ago

    Itagaki thinks he's too cool, there's no way he'd get "PISSED" at a 6/10 from EG.

  • Shinji #60 6 years ago

    Old nick that I can't get rid of. I should ask Mark nicely to edit it, actually :)

  • tengu #61 6 years ago

    "It's just like a teenage brat"

    And your clowning in any Sony related thread isn't like this in any way, oh no.

  • Scientist #62 6 years ago

    Is everyone this argumentative in real life or is a gaming thread an excuse anonymously to vent one's anger?

    I assume most poeple here are grown adults, but I wonder. The pettiness is embarrassingly childish.

  • Eighthours #63 6 years ago

    When was the review done? Were the people you were playing online all in the US? As that would probably explain the lag issues. Maybe once its flooded with UK players this will improve?

    We'll see. I'll tell you either tomorrow or on Saturday whether the lag's a problem on my machine. Worth mentioning that some people experience crippling lag on RRVI, while others have none at all.

  • Bertie Verified Senior Staff Writer, Eurogamer.net #64 6 years ago

    Frod and LiDilettante: do you have the game, or have you played it?

    How is it that you can form a varied opinion about something if you simply disregard anything that differs from your own opinion? Have you considered that this review is just someone's honest experience with a franchise he's very familiar with, communicated here so that it may save other people money and or mis-speant time engaging in an unfulfilling experience? Why devalue that as wrong?

    I know most of your posts seem to be just trolly stuff, espescially Frod's, but it really irks me when I see it time and time again. It's as if you feel obliged to live up to a pantomime career.

  • squeakyg #65 6 years ago

    I just can't understand why EG has a readership of so many rude, paranoid, angry, disdainful people. Can't you just read the review and accept it? Add it to your pool of opinions gathered on the game?

    This reviewer sounds like someone who is able to describe in great detail the mechanics of a fighting game, and what makes fighting games work or not - he sounds very qualified to give it a 6.

    I see nothing unreasonable or unfair enough to make me consider a "EG paid to under-rate Xbox 360 games" conspiracy, or a "EG irrationally dislikes Xbox 360" claim.

    And the guy who said: "I can't be bothered reading the review, someone tell me how I should moan about it..." oy, words fail me.

  • TripSkyway #66 6 years ago

    The single player is really hard, but having spent a while online, it's not a massive step from the competition I've faced. I get beat in pretty much the same ways on and offline. The final boss is extremely annoying however, the cut scene thows take ages, and just add to the frustration.

    I really haven't had any trouble with lag online when playing domestic opponents, and quite a few people have this in Japan so there is always matches for me to join. Playing against americans is Laggy, and I imagine playing against very distant players will always be a problem.

    DOA4 regularly crashes on my version. Other than this, not small problem, I didn't get the same feeling of the game being rushed out.

    7ish

  • Darren #67 6 years ago

    Ouch! That EG score hurts more than a kick in the face from one of the DOA girls!!!

  • myiagros #68 6 years ago

    LeDilettante - i for one agreed on EG's 5 for Kameo and have a feeling from a short play in GAME this afternoon that i may be agreeing with EG again.

  • drumbaby #69 6 years ago

    I predicted a 7.

  • smoison #70 6 years ago

    I saw a video of this the other day, and I have to say I really thought this was on XBOX. It really dosen't seem to do the XBOX 360 justice (not Like Call Of Duty).

    Oh, and on Live, the charectors seem to have about 12 fps each, its kinda poor. Even CS 1.6 lags less....

  • Stickman #71 6 years ago

    This'll look brilliant on PS3.

  • Ignatius_Cheese #72 6 years ago

    Seriously guys, at the end of the day, a review is only an opinion. Just like with *gasp* Edge's reviews, I don't take them as gospel but will definitely consider someone's opinions that generally concur with my own. Stop bitching about EG reviews!!

  • Scientist #73 6 years ago

    "Why is it that every time a major franchise is released, you just know the EG reviewer goes in ready to piss on it from a great height."

    ?????????

  • Stickman #74 6 years ago

    I imagine they'll have ironed all the terrible flaws out of it in time for its PS3 release, and it'll be brilliant!

  • Dr_Fripp #75 6 years ago

    "The best thing about LeDilettante is that he thinks other readers agree with him."

    I think LeDilettante needs to put in just one more reference to Kameo to make sure nobody missed that title.

  • Carlo #76 6 years ago

    Damn... i was going to cave and get a 360 if this was good...

    What's the next 360 game to get excited about? Anyone know?

  • rinoaMW #77 6 years ago

    "Actually, it's not sarcasm, or bordering on it. I'm poking fun a bit, but I do actually think Itagaki-san is fucking cool. He's a proper rockstar game developer, even if he is a bit of a mentalist. The only other developer I'd put in the same bracket, off the top of my head, is Chris Metzen from Blizzard. If you didn't know who he was, you'd assume he was a rock or movie star. (When you do know who he is, that's even cooler, as far as I'm concerned...) "

    Thats fine, and i'm glad. Maybe all the low 360 reveiws have just made me cynical...

    Like i've said tho, i've read your review and i'll buy it from GAME just to be on the safe side... :)
    Edited by 1 at 26/01/06 @ 17:14

  • #78 6 years ago

    Fight me! It's even more realistic than the game, and it will hurt and everything!

    10/10 for fighting with Mapster....

  • BillGaitas #79 6 years ago

    6/10

    It can be a fair score, but reading EG giving way to importance to the old games like DOA2, that werent that great and had many flaws, makes me think that perhaps it isnt. Well .... whatever

  • Kingsadist #80 6 years ago

    So, does anybody actually ever die in the Dead or Alive games?

  • Stickman #81 6 years ago

    YAY!!!!

  • myiagros #82 6 years ago

    Kingsadist - i'd go with NO. i would change the name to Not Dead But Alive!

  • Kingsadist #83 6 years ago

    Not Dead But Still Have A Nice Rack, maybe?

  • manic_mouse #84 6 years ago

    " The best thing about LeDilettante is that he thinks other readers agree with him."

    That EG has consistantly rated most 360 games lower than everywhere else? Sometimes drastically so?

    What's not to agree with? Whether or not the reviews are justified is another issue, of course.

  • jack_klugman #85 6 years ago

    He does explicitly imply there is some hidden agenda behind these low scores however, which I hope isn't a widly held opinion as it is so patently untrue.

  • myiagros #86 6 years ago

    Kingsadist - yeah OK i could go with that. Now how to we contact Tecmo to suggest it before official release tomorrow?? :)

  • Scientist #87 6 years ago

    "I think EG's taking the piss"

    If anyone's taking the piss, it's you and on a daily basis.

  • nickyickywickywoo #88 6 years ago

    I assume most poeple here are grown adults, but I wonder. The pettiness is embarrassingly childish.

    You, sir, are a sane voice in the wilderness. (But I still prefer your "opinionated geeks and moral relativism" comment in another thread ;))

    But at least it's entertaining...

  • manic_mouse #89 6 years ago

    "He does explicitly imply there is some hidden agenda behind these low scores however, which I hope isn't a widly held opinion as it is so patently untrue."

    Well, fair enough.

  • Furbs #90 6 years ago

    Having played most of the 360 games reviewed here thanks to a ridiculous bundle pack I bought, overall I'd say they've been pretty fair in their reviews and explained why they got the scores they did.

    The only one they've been wrong on was FIFA which is totally at odds with their scoring policy.

    Kameo got a low score for one main reason - the game lead your hand too much, that much is very clear. It told you what to do and when to do it. If it had been more open it would have scored better.

    DoA4 seems to me to be a nice new coat on DoA3, so deserves "just above average" score when its predecsessor can be picked up for 20% of the price of this (and looks sweeeeeet on the 360).That said, I'm not in to the intricacies of beat-em-ups.

  • Scientist #91 6 years ago

    "You, sir, are a sane voice in the wilderness. (But I still prefer your "opinionated geeks and moral relativism" comment in another thread ;))

    But at least it's entertaining..."

    Much obliged. I try not to get involved, but having been visiting this site for 4 years and seen the quality of posts degenerate, I occasionally feel the need to chuck in my two pence.

  • jack_klugman #92 6 years ago

    I think EG's taking the piss, and I'll stand by my description of contradictory teenager.

    It's a ridiculous stance to take. The score is backed up, as also in the case of Ridge Racer, by a very articulate and comprehensive review. It's not as though there was some fundemental failure to justify the decision, a decision which is ultimately based on Rob's individual opinion anyway which he is perfectly entitled to. The idea that there is some journalistic conspiracy, or at the very least bias, against the 360 within Eurogamer is ludicrous. More than anything it would appear to be a bias against mediocrity which I for one champion.

  • myiagros #93 6 years ago

    if you guys want to start quoting game rankings as a marker then lets get afew thing straight.

    EG on average ranks games 7.6% lower than the average score (suggesting they are slightly harsher than most sites, whether right or wrong)

    Of the 186 users who have rated this game thay have rated it at 8.0 (this is less than the average site review score of 88%, suggesting most sites are being more forgiving than consumers, their readers)

  • myiagros #94 6 years ago

    frod - i am afraid not, game rankings is versatile but not to that extent :)

    edit: typo
    Edited by 1 at 26/01/06 @ 17:42

  • Perry #95 6 years ago

    I actually unclicked LeDil for this comments thread.

    Just confirms why I did it in the first point. LeDil, very simple. Eurogamer has opinions, and I must admit, every game I've played that they've reviewed I've agreed on. That must be close to 50 games. By contrasting other games sites with EG is pointless. Everyone has opinions, and some reviewers will get it wrong in comparison to your thoughts. Thinking they have an agenda is qutie childish, on your behalf.

    Edit:
    All I'd add LeDil re. Fifa street, is what is wrong with a reviewer liking a game that a lot of others didn't? They outlined their reasons, so if you read the review, you'd say - "that does not apply to me, I wont buy this one"?

    No need to rant like an idiot about conspiracy theories.
    Edited by 1 at 26/01/06 @ 17:42

  • OnlyMe #96 6 years ago

    I'm predicting a 7 for Elder Scrolls: Oblivion 360 version and 9 for the PC version.

    That is a challenge.

  • tannerd #97 6 years ago

    "As I clicked on the review I just knew it would be an average or low score."

    Fucking hell! An average score - that must be really unlikely!

    You are stupid, aren't you?

  • captbirdseye #98 6 years ago

    hehe that would be funny

  • Xerx3s #99 6 years ago

    "THE FUCKING RIDGE RACER ADVERTS ARE CRIPPLING MY COMPUTER "

    Use Outpost Pro. Best firewall on the block with advert & spyware protection x)

    "Oh no, and to think my friend with only one controller and no internet connection has purchased an Xbox360 purely for this game with the single player described as not worthy of touching with a barge pole! "

    Who on earth buys beat em ups for single player? Seriously? 0_o If i recall correctly, you could express the DOA3 SP playtime in minits, not hours.

    Still, less & less botherd by reading the xbx2 EG reviews. Anyone who has played the game willing to write a reader review? No fanboy plz.
    Edited by 1 at 26/01/06 @ 18:07

  • captainrentboy #100 6 years ago

    6/10 that's crazy talk maaan.Only kidding of course,each to their own and what not.
    I've had the game for a couple of weeks now on import,and out of the 7 games I own this one has had the most hours put into it.It's those frikkin achievements I tell ya,I just MUST have every one,hence the reason i've had to face that facking alpha project boss over 20 times,what the reviewer said is right,she's basically a right countering cunt,but keep ya cool and block a lot and she'll normally go down quicker.
    The online mode is a slight disapointment for me too,although occasionally when you do a proper search for a room and join Europeans it's no where near as laggy,and actually great fun.
    It's the bog standard offline vs games against mates that are the best though,those team battles are ace as are the tag ones.
    Anyway i'd give it 8.5 myself,and once its online mode is sorted it'd get a 9.
    If anyone is put off by the score dont be,give it a whirl yourself first.I find it considerably better than No 3,and the actual kicks and punches just seem to flow together a lot nicer.

  • Xander_B_OXford #101 6 years ago

    6/10 eh? You know what I think of that score, and this site? BALLS! Big hairy ones, sweaty and smelly with cheese!

    I've had to suppress the gag urge to read this so called "website" on several occasions now, but this is one occasion where I nearly throw up in my trousers in sheer disgust at the appalling review before me, I've read better games reviews in Nuts magazine, and I only read those by accident while I was tugging myself over some pictures of the Hollyoaks babes on the previous page. Lost my wood pretty quick there, I can tell you, and after this review, I fear I may have gone impotent.

    DOA is the greatest beat em up series of all time, OF ALL TIME! The very idea it could be anything less than perfect is inconceivable, so I'm afraid I'm going to have to dismiss this review as the dirty sleaze it is. A pox on you EgoLamer, A POX! If you're lucky, I won't hunt you all down and take your spines as trophies like the Predator to hang on my wall above my HDTV as I play my 360.

    Oh, and could Ledilletante please STFU! There's nothing I hate more than blinkered fanboy morons!

  • Mho7276501 #102 6 years ago

    LeDilettante why do you even bother coming here anymore?

  • Stickman #103 6 years ago

    I love Xander!

  • Teeth #104 6 years ago

    I quite like LeDilletante these days

  • jack_klugman #105 6 years ago

    Irony; oh precious joy.

  • Teeth #106 6 years ago

    Come on - you have to admit that what he's saying in this comments thread is a mile and a league away from the delirious rants he used to post. He's very clear. And he's been very friendly... well quite friendly in the forum too.

  • Furbs #107 6 years ago

    "Oh, and could Ledilletante please STFU! There's nothing I hate more than blinkered fanboy morons!"

    That, my friends, its THE best comment ever typed on these hallowed pages. ROFL.

    Xander, you ROX my BOX!

  • Dire #108 6 years ago

    I agree with the score!

    After playing DOA4 last night I lasted about 1 hour and after that it was switched off never to be played again.

    wouldn't mind seeing some next gen gameplay really¬_¬

  • jack_klugman #109 6 years ago

    Dire - I think we're all waiting for that. From any game.
    Edited by 1 at 26/01/06 @ 18:55

  • Stickman #110 6 years ago

    @Teeth - I agree with you. LeDil used to be a rabid fanboi, now he's a nice, civil, well fanboy still, but a jolly decent enough one.

  • HelloWorld #111 6 years ago

    Congratulations on a proper review, and using the whole scoring scale.

    It sounds like this game has the same problems that plagued the last Tekken- ie the juggles are really stupid and annoying, and the AI is shite: it feels like you're playing a really good player who is patronising you by letting you hit them for a bit.

    Given i play the comp 99% of the time, and find the character models in this to be a bit hideous, i probably won't be rushing out to buy it.

  • Cubfan #112 6 years ago

    "He does explicitly imply there is some hidden agenda behind these low scores however, which I hope isn't a widly held opinion as it is so patently untrue."

    Oxymoron?

  • BartonFink #113 6 years ago

    Jaysus 6/10 not unexpected but valid reasons for the score. Fair enoughski. I will however not be basing the purchase of a game on a single review score (nobody should)

    I would like to add though Rizo, Carlo, Xander you are an unusual yet amusing bunch of tards.

  • martu #114 6 years ago

    To the fanboys (and girls too I suppose):

    Look it's very simple - you're invited to comment on the article. If you disagree with the article can you please point out specifically what you disagree with?

    Here I'll help start like this:

    I don't agree with your criticism of 1 because in my experience of playing the game 2

    replace 1 and 2 respectively.

    This isn't tough. And you never know this may start an interesting conversation about the game.

    I used to enjoy comment threads.
    Edited by 1 at 26/01/06 @ 19:18

  • sibod1 #115 6 years ago

    HAHAHAHAHAH!!!!!
    As predicted, a top tier AAA game for the XBOX 360 gets an absolute slating by EG.

    And as was the case with Kameo, which I found to be a thoroughly enjoyable and fun game, I will buy DOA 4 and discover that indeed, it is worth far more than 6/10.

    EG is up it's own self important backside. Wanting to be 'different' means, it seems, to simply go through a checklist of what's wrong with a game, and not actually review how it -*plays*-.

    By this, I mean that they sit down, writing down points as they go through, without actually relaxing, and just =Playing= it properly.

    Then when going back to write the review, they sit there with their list of ticks and crosses, and make their marks based on that.

    THen fill in the blanks to explain the bad score.

    To me, this seems how they wrote the review for Kameo - because, having played the game (beyond the demo stage that the critics here seem to have only played), it is obvious that it was a rich, varied, and engrossing game, marred only with a few slightly derivative levels (In that you have one of each typical platform type game). The art direction was very Rare, but then that is to be expected and is a matter of taste.

    Again, with DOA4, it seems they are picking apart the mechanics, art direction, and technology behind it without really saying whether they enjoyed it.

    So no matter how fun a game actually is, if it has x y and z wrong with it, it cannot be a high scoring game.

    Being different for reviewers in any genre seems to simply be 'slate mainstream, praise niche', even if they stretch the realms of reality to get there.

    There's that 'we must prove we were right about the true next gen comment' factor, too

    Dont say it doesn't play a role, because it's clear - from the moment the 360 reviews started coming in, that EG is trying to prove something. Good games that deserve high scores get low and pissy ones, crappy games that deserve low scores get high ones. Thus giving the impression the 360 really is a terrible games system.


    I continue to read EG for the non XBOX related news, but the reviews are just a joke.

    Edited by 1 at 26/01/06 @ 19:44

  • jack_klugman #116 6 years ago

    Oxymoron?

    Cubfan - How?

  • Wobble #117 6 years ago

    very good review, best I've read on DOA4 so far.

    terrible shame about the game though :( but i'm still going to get it...

  • lucky_jim #118 6 years ago

    jack_klugman- I think Cubfan was referring to your use of "EXplicitly IMply". I knew what you meant though, and I hadn't noticed it, so it's probably not worth losing sleep over! :)

  • waffle #119 6 years ago

    You find this review contradictory? To what? The reviewers own opinions? That's what a review is, it's not possible for a review to contradict the writer's opinions because a review IS the writer's opinion. A review is NOT a statement of fact or a chemistry report. It is not supposed to be everyone elses opinion because if it was then there would only ever need to be one review.

    And another thing...

    What the fuck were you people doing when teacher was explaining the number line to the rest of the class? How the fuck can 5 out of a possible 10 (on a scale of 1 to 10) be "utter shit". There is nothing below utter shit, yet I can immediately think of 4 integers that lie between 0 and 5. 4 integers that EG actually take into consideration when adding the score to the end of the review (read: opinion). If you can't manage to squeeeeeze the concept that a 5 or a 6 is not ACTUALLY the end of everything we know into your cranium then all I can assume is that you are such a fucking dipshit that you give retards a bad name. I'm not addressing any one person on these forums, I'm talking to all of you fat headed, thick skulled, small brained boneheads that are STILL commenting on reviews that sit on a webpage YOU OBVIOUSLY DON'T RESPECT.

    Sod Off Ingrates!

    I would like to read game relevant comments please, not pointless review critiques.
    Edited by 1 at 26/01/06 @ 20:07

  • jack_klugman #120 6 years ago

    Surely an implication can be both explicitly and implicitly made? Oh I see...

  • Stickman #121 6 years ago

    waffle, your moniker belies your wisdom! That's a cracking post.

  • ilmaestro #122 6 years ago

    lols at the people who have 'had a quick go' in their local GAME and are agreeing with EG's review. At least Rob seems to have had a proper crack at it and somehow doesn't like it. If you only play it for an hour or so, you are bound to end up not overly impressed, it's a fighting game which should mean that it gets better as you do, not that you can master it on a demo pod.

  • doug #123 6 years ago

    waffle: well said old bean.

  • TheBard #124 6 years ago

    I got the game yesterday and played it since then.

    And I absolutely agree with the review. Especially concerning the netcode. I'm on a 1Mbit DSL line and the game is a slideshow. Online gaming just isn't any fun and I'm deeply disappointed.

    Concerning the Single Player, it isn't a complete loss, but for an average gamer I guess it is just too frikking hard. I somehow manage... but even though I'm reasonably good in DOA3 and DOA2:U, I often fight the urge to throw my pad through the room. Damned wireless thingies... they fly far.

    Winning in Single Player really doesn't have an honest flair of achievement, which you'd expect. It is frustrating. The final boss can easily be beaten by sheer button smashing, and sadly, it's the most efficient method. Just PPPPPPPPPP *will* work.

    So all in all: Not a good Single Player part and an unplayable online Multiplayer part. Playing with friends will be fun, but that's about it.

  • TheMoonRat #125 6 years ago

    LeDilettante: the problem is, your opinion of pretty much every review is different; and everyone knows that by now. It's clear your tastes are different to some EG reviewers tastes.

    So do we really need to hear about that for the umpteenth time?

  • jack_klugman #126 6 years ago

    LeDilettante - CUUUUUUUUNTS!

  • admir #127 6 years ago

    DoA4 sucks Tekken 5 rocks
    who ever buys DoA4 all I have to say "dude get a girlfriend"

  • Mephistopheles #128 6 years ago

    I've had the US game for three weeks and it hasn't left my 360 drive since. Lag has rarely ever been an issue for me, and this includes Japanese hosted games with only one red bar showing on my connection status and 16 people in the lobby. But then, I've got 512KB upstream, 8MB downstream. Maybe at 256KB upstream and below things fall apart, but I wouldn't know.

    Single player has been easy as well. As long as you mix up your combos and block the AI can't counter your moves as regularly as it does otherwise. I've quite enjoyed playing through the story mode and watching the lush FMV endings. In fact I completed the game with all the characters within the first 24 hours of getting it. There's also cool survival and time attack modes which upload your scores on a Live leaderboard. The survival mode is particularly fun because it throws items on the stage for extra points and it's hectic dealing with opponents as well as trying to collect the items.

    Anyway, without rambling on, this game is an easy 9/10 for me. Much better than Soul Calibur 3 and Tekken 5 in my opinion. Virtua Fighter 4 is still king of the mountain though.

    Oh, and I don't think it's the best looking 360 game. PGR3 and Kameo are more impressive technically, IMO. Still extremely lush allthesame.

  • Ihya #129 6 years ago

    Um, good review by the way.

  • BartonFink #130 6 years ago

    admir - you are yet another tard.

  • Kavvy #131 6 years ago

    Well if you go as far as to enable people to leave comments about your reviews then what can you expect?

    100% gushing admiration and agreement 100% of the time? Then get all pissed off when people disagree?

    Personally DAO isn't something I'd ever play, but I think it's interesting to read a thread like this and see people tear each other to bits over an opinion.

  • symmetry #132 6 years ago

    I'm sorry but I have to ask this Shinji, are you sure none of your house mates were downloading goat porn via bittorrent at the time you were reviewing it?

    Cos I reckon that could seriously damage the score :)

  • Fokofsnake #133 6 years ago

    I think it's good that EG doesn't just hand out good scores too any next-gen game. The
    launch line-up games aren't going to be a patch on games that are going too come in
    time. Maybe the games deserve better for being the next-gen pioneers or something,
    but that's the price you pay for being first. I think any reviewer(gamer) that still has that 2005 E3 flame burning shouldn't be too kind to the launch line-up games

  • Xerx3s #134 6 years ago

    "6/10 eh? You know what I think of that score, and this site? BALLS! Big hairy ones, sweaty and smelly with cheese!

    I've had to suppress the gag urge to read this so called "website" on several occasions now, but this is one occasion where I nearly throw up in my trousers in sheer disgust at the appalling review before me, I've read better games reviews in Nuts magazine, and I only read those by accident while I was tugging myself over some pictures of the Hollyoaks babes on the previous page. Lost my wood pretty quick there, I can tell you, and after this review, I fear I may have gone impotent.

    DOA is the greatest beat em up series of all time, OF ALL TIME! The very idea it could be anything less than perfect is inconceivable, so I'm afraid I'm going to have to dismiss this review as the dirty sleaze it is. A pox on you EgoLamer, A POX! If you're lucky, I won't hunt you all down and take your spines as trophies like the Predator to hang on my wall above my HDTV as I play my 360.

    Oh, and could Ledilletante please STFU! There's nothing I hate more than blinkered fanboy morons! "

    ROFL! FTW! Will you have me baby? xD xD

    /forgets hes a man. ^_^

  • Pastici #135 6 years ago

    I think the low scores for games in general spawn from the fact we get screwed over for release dates in Europe, we hear monthd in advance that games are going to be good then when we get then 50 years later we're more critical cause we're pissed with set backs and getting fudged over by the US and Japan. My thoughts anyway. [Predicts flaming]

  • Luigi #136 6 years ago

    Who cares what other (american based) sites write about the games... It's always unfair to review a game. For instance, Phantasmagoria 2 has 2/10 in gamespot and I personally loved the game. The main thing is , the 360 has mediocre games at this point. I'm not bashing the console, the developers will improve the quality of the games but for now are unimpressive. Big salut to all EU from Lisbon.

  • morriss #137 6 years ago

    Have to say I'm with LeDil for the first time ever. EG over the last six months or so, seem to be taking the 'anti-hype' stance. This is not typed as a fanboy but as someone who's read almost every front page review for the last 1½ years.

    I too automatically assumed the score would be low on this one. And even though I've only played the Kameo demo - I really enjoyed it, whereas EG seemed to mark it down for what it could have been (i.e. expectations) not what it was.

    The FIFA score was the biggest joke. Sorry, but that's all I can say on that.

    Rest assured when an obscure indie title comes out that gets zero press, zero hype and goes to budget within 3 months EG'll give it 10/10 and game of the year.

    And before I get torched, have I said it's a bad thing? No.
    Edited by 1 at 26/01/06 @ 23:47

  • tannerd #138 6 years ago

    But the point, morriss, is that is your opinion. And EG's is different. So? I personally think they've been spot on - I didn't like Kameo at all, and thought fifa was rushed, looked awful, and was no way worth £50. I'd have been gutted if I'd got that for a launch game, luckilly I read EG's review, and picked it up on rental. Gave it a week (to unlock the points, and get inside it) and sent it back. I still think Fifa 2002 was the peak...

    So if everyone (EG and yourself and me) is allowed their own opinion, then it's fine. Except there seems to be a fanboy element who insist that their opinon is the right one, and the EG one is wrong as it is anti-360.

    Personally I think the 360 is great - PGR, CoD, PD (multiplayer only), Condemend, a little NFSU and the Arcade have filled my time for the last 2 months, and I can't wait to see it's potential fulfilled. My single negative is that it doesn't support video streaming nicely.

  • Shinji #139 6 years ago

    I'm sorry but I have to ask this Shinji, are you sure none of your house mates were downloading goat porn via bittorrent at the time you were reviewing it?

    Har :) I did think to check that, actually - hence going off and playing a bit of multiplayer FPS for a while to make sure the connection was okay. (Actually, we have an entirely seperate line for big downloads and things like bittorrent, since a few of us work from home on a regular basis and people downloading goat pron can REALLY screw that up...)

    I've also had comments from a few other people with the game, both here in the UK and in Japan (none in the US yet), saying that it's screwed in terms of netcode in the same way that I noted - so I'm fairly confident that at least for a large proportion of users, this isn't going to be playable online.

    By the way, just to throw fat on the fire concerning the whole bias allegation... I don't work on Eurogamer.net normally. I'm the editor of two different sites, neither of which review games, and I only review for EG on a very occasional basis these days. This is the first 360 game I've reviewed, and I was given no editorial direction on it - nobody suggested what I should give it, or any such nonsense, and it was given to me because I'm the company's token Dead Or Alive fanboy. The review was posted with no edits to the content by the acting site editor. If there's some kind of official Eurogamer bias or "anti-hype" line, then it's a bloody subtle one that they must be feeding into my brain in my sleep...

    I'd also like to point out that when the Xbox came out, Tom reviewed Dead or Alive 3... And gave it 6/10. I think that with hindsight on that game, it was the right score - it was a low point for the series. At the time, he was lambasted for being anti-Xbox, in Sony's pocket, etc. A year or so down the line from the launch titles, when really great games started popping up on Xbox, those allegations basically went away... So realistically, instead of an anti-Xbox bias, we seem to have an anti-launch title bias. Could it be - just maybe - that that's because a lot of console launch titles are rushed and strongly show the signs of being developed on unfamiliar hardware?

    Sorry. I don't know what came over me there - next I'll be suggesting that maybe Lee Harvey Oswald actually shot JFK, and there was nothing on the grassy knoll but grass...

  • morriss #140 6 years ago

    Agreed also tannerd. But my opinion doesn't include some kind of agenda, which seems to be anti-hype. And I'm not basing it upon my opinion, I basing it the way the reviews have gone over the last year or so.

    It is weird if your reviews are considerably lower than everyone elses don't you think? Either you can see games more lucidly than everyone else in a indusrty of your peers. Or maybe you're actually missing something.

    EDIT: Just read Shinji's post: I'm not saying EG have an 'anti-hype' bent. I'm saying it's reviewers have. ;)


    Edited by 2 at 27/01/06 @ 00:30

  • squeakyg #141 6 years ago

    I can pint to a couple of reasons why there is so much confusion about Eurogamer reviews:

    1) You have become so accustomed to other websites and magazines using only four or five points from the ten-point scale, that you're trained to see 6/10 as the lowest score on the scale, rather than its literal meaning - above average.

    2) You have become so accustomed to other websites and magazines reviewing games in too much of a neutral tone. Most review websites read like press releases! They come across as dull checklists of what's good and bad about a game; no heart; no emotional description of how it feels to be a gamer. Eurogamer is one of the rare websites that reviews from those perspectives. You just can't handle it.

    3) Games are just shitter these days. "Press releasey" corporatey game websites stick to their 8's and 9's out of ten, but no wonder games get low scores when good honest people (like EG reviewers) give their opinions.

  • Genji #142 6 years ago

    Note: if you have not played the game, then you have absolutely no reason to agree or disagree with the review, or the score at the end of it. So save the "EG is anti-hype" conspiracies, or whatever, until you have played the game at least as much as the reviewer has.

    Thank you.

  • BootLace #143 6 years ago

    "A game scored six is 'good', and many of its audience will enjoy it, but approach with caution."

    http://ww w.eurogamer.net/scoring_policy.php

  • Mephistopheles #144 6 years ago

    All I know is I've played over 300 games online (says so in my stats). Dunno why some people are having these lag problems and can't play.

    Maybe it's to do with some obscure network settings or something.

  • Dizzy #145 6 years ago

    The EG 360 reviews are starting to border on ridiculous.

    Like someone said before.. if you check on Gamerankings... EG is lowest review on 85% of the 360 reviews from all possible sources. Statistically that isn't even possible.
    Edited by 1 at 27/01/06 @ 07:56

  • KiLlerKnight #146 6 years ago

    Shinji, I don't think you need to defend against this bias BS. A review is an opinion, so of course it's biased in some way. Actually I think your review is fair, there are enough people on other forums complaining about the problems you mention.

    And these days I think many reviewers give 8's and 9's too easily. I don't know whether this is some kind of conspiracy or just clever marketing. But I don't blame them if you see all those fanboys here with the attitude of 'you are biased, my game is great and you suck'. Those fools should go to gamerankings and read all those reviews with 9's to make them feel better about their last purchase and shut the hell up.

  • Rizo #147 6 years ago

    Eurogamer the only website which has not been bought

    This is what the games industry is up to:
    http://www.penny-ar cade.com/comic

    trying to sell crap games at premium prices by buying review scores.
    Thanks guys for telling it how it is.

  • Shinji #148 6 years ago

    Sigh :) I'm not sure why I'm defending myself against someone whose sole occupation on this site over the past months has been mindlessly spewing nonsense on Xbox 360 review threads and trolling on PlayStation threads, but I guess I should have pointed out when I said that that I have been reviewing videogames professionally in print, TV, radio and online for well over ten years now. My point was entirely intended to indicate that I'm not an EG regular reviewer and as such, this anti-Xbox or anti-hype "groupthink" that you and a few others are seeming to imply is patently bollocks.

    Then again, nearly everyone on this comments thread seems to know that already.

  • BartonFink #149 6 years ago

    Rizo next thing you will be linking your pathethic little attempt at a website again (if you want a good laugh guys check this out). Now off back to gamefaqs with you. LeDilettante will you keep him company.
    Edited by 1 at 27/01/06 @ 08:53

  • jonnyreb #150 6 years ago

    This came out in Sweden yesterday, and I rushed out and bought it as soon as I could.

    Now, I'm not going to moan about someone else's opinion as I have too much respect for EG to do that, but I am really, really enjoying this at the moment (offline - I can't comment on XBOX Live as I don't use it).

    I basically sat playing this from about lunchtime yesterday until about 0300 this morning :)

    Who knows, maybe in a week or so I'll change my mind.............

    To summarise, what is really good about the game (IMHO) is that you really have to learn the moves, consider your timing very carefully and avoid button mashing like the plague as the AI will kick your ass if you try that.

    That's why I like it anyway..........would suggest that everyone gives it a try and form your own opinion though.

  • Stickman #151 6 years ago

    You know when you did homework at school, and you'd get it back with '8/10' written on it and think "oh, how nice, that's a good score", and then there was that history teacher who was a bit of a bastard and a bit grumpy, but if you got your homework back and it said '6/10', you'd still think "oh, how nice, that's a good score" because you were able to work out that he always marked a little lower than others, perhaps because he wasn't about to settle for nor praise mediocrity. Then you'd get an 'A' in your GCSE History and realise that because he'd pushed you harder to get your 8/10, your standard of work had gone up, and you hadn't settled for 'passable'.

    Then you'd have a kickabout in the playground, then Mary might show you her snatch if you gave her some of your dad's pernod...

    edit - though clearly you wouldn't get an 'A' in spelling.
    Edited by 1 at 27/01/06 @ 09:45

  • mattius30 #152 6 years ago

    Good grief, do people still use the word 'snatch'? I thought that disappeared along with 'quim' and 'tuppence'. Er...anyway, played DoA 4 last night and absolutely hated it. I was gutted - I had been looking forward to this game since it was announced. But the review was spot on, I could tick the box of agreement against every point raised in it. Who play-tested this title during development??? Here's hoping Tekken or Soul Calibur will come to 360.

  • Wobble #153 6 years ago

    lol, tuppence. Going to have to start using that in hopes it will catch on.

  • SentientNr6 #154 6 years ago

    This review gets a 3/10 from me.
    Reasons?
    2 pages is way too much.
    incoherent.
    6/10 for a good game

    Glad EG still has some good PC reviews.

  • Razzajazz #155 6 years ago

    I can't really see what's wrong with this review. There is an in-depth explanation of the fighting mechanics, comment regarding the presentation of the game, and warnings regarding possible issues in the game.

    Would everyone who disagrees with this review have preferred it if EG had said 'This game ROXXORZ!', only to get it home and find it's unplayable over Xbox Live? Can you imagine the indignation in the EG forums?!!

    People just need to get over the fact that it hasn't got 8 or above out of 10, and if you disagree with the review, then just go out and buy the fucking game! Personally, I enjoy EG's "so-called 'Anti-Hype' bias", because it's thanks to them that I have enjoyed some really great unknown games like Disgaea and Darwinia. But quite frankly, I think it's ridiculous that there is some sort of agenda in place, do the fanboi tards in the forum really think that people like Shinji have nothing better to do than to write inflammatory reviews just to wind them up?! Come on now, lads! :)
    Edited by 1 at 27/01/06 @ 10:33

  • #156 6 years ago

    this review is pretty far off target.

    the game is easily an 8/10, a 9 for me.

    i'm not going to bother arguing with the legions of tards on these comments threads, i will comment on the apparent agenda against the 360, which i think is fairly obvious.

    whether they're on the take from sony, or simply trying to get more hits via controversy, i don't know.

    DOA4 is a great game though, and i'd urge anyone thinking about buying the game to give it a try before you accept this reviews conclusions.

  • redd #157 6 years ago

    i dont agree with this review.
    But then again, if'd review eurogamer, they wouldnt like my review either :)

  • Scientist #158 6 years ago

    " this review is pretty far off target.

    the game is easily an 8/10, a 9 for me.

    i'm not going to bother arguing with the legions of tards on these comments threads, i will comment on the apparent agenda against the 360, which i think is fairly obvious.

    whether they're on the take from sony, or simply trying to get more hits via controversy, i don't know.

    DOA4 is a great game though, and i'd urge anyone thinking about buying the game to give it a try before you accept this reviews conclusions."

    How enlightening!

  • #159 6 years ago

    the final boss is a joy to fight by the way. the animation the reviewer bemoans is actually fantastic.

    careful ranged attacks are the order of the day, along with staying away from the sides of the arena.

    i'm no L337 DOA player, but the final boss isn't that hard. i would suggest the reviewer stop blaming the game for his own inadequacies as a gamer.

    from the numerous digs in the review, i concluded the reviewer doesn't like itagaki, and i think he let that cloud his judgment, his views certainly don't do the game justice.
    Edited by 1 at 27/01/06 @ 11:00

  • J_Allard #160 6 years ago

    Look guys, don't bother with this fraud of a website, just buy anything MS branded ffs!

  • gazareth #161 6 years ago

    Kameo and Condemned both criticised for being too easy, DOA4 criticised for being too hard.

    You can't win...

  • gazareth #162 6 years ago

    Also, surely the lag is due to the fact that hardly anyone in the UK has the game yet and so the reviewer would have been playing people in the US. That's likely to mean a ping time of 100-250ms, and that will feel very laggy in a game involving sharp reactions.

    I've not read of any problems with lag from people on SomethingAwful's games forums, and those guys are usually very sharp with things like that.

  • TheBard #163 6 years ago

    I've also had comments from a few other people with the game, both here in the UK and in Japan (none in the US yet), saying that it's screwed in terms of netcode in the same way that I noted - so I'm fairly confident that at least for a large proportion of users, this isn't going to be playable online.
    Same here in Germany. The netcode kills any fun in online.

    But I managed to find some gamerooms which are without problems. But these are rare.

    The sad thing is, the moment anybody with a bad line joins the lobby, the game speed is crippled. And there are many people with a bad line. And you cannot set some rules which automatically reject people with a bad connection.

  • Cheapshot #164 6 years ago

    Christ you guys, stop the whining for the love of god! If the Xbox fanboys here acted like this outside the internet they'd have no teeth left!
    Edited by 1 at 27/01/06 @ 11:25

  • J_Allard #165 6 years ago

    Leave the Xboys fanboys alone! They're the only ones worthy of respect around here! They are the colony!!

    And just so you know, EG are on their second warning. One more strike and it's over!!
    Edited by 1 at 27/01/06 @ 11:42

  • Pac #166 6 years ago

    At the risk of showing my ignorance. Is it possible that the online lag issues may be improved/resolved over time?

    If so would the game warrant a higher score?

    Or am I clutching at straws here.

  • Furbs #167 6 years ago

    /waves at eurolamer

    Hi arnie! Still around? :p

    Tard invasion almost exactly coincided with your original appearance. Weird that.

  • Genji #168 6 years ago

    Eurolamer... now *that's* a troll name if I ever heard one.

  • Wobble #169 6 years ago

    who opened the sock drawer?

    lol @ the people saying it's a badly written review because they don't like the number at the end.. fools.

  • Shinji #170 6 years ago

    Also, surely the lag is due to the fact that hardly anyone in the UK has the game yet and so the reviewer would have been playing people in the US.

    Incorrect. Thanks to several shops breaking the street date on this game (and quite a few people importing it), I was able to play pretty much exclusively against UK players. Only once did I try playing against US players. I stopped that pretty quickly - it was an order of magnitude worse than the already awful games I was having with UK players.

  • Furbs #171 6 years ago

    Shinj, get raups to let you write a few more reviews. Not arselicking, but I do like your writing style and its a throwback to the good old days when the only moaning about scores was tongue in cheek with regards to H**o.

  • paulf #172 6 years ago

    Had a quick go on this last night, didnt feel the single player mode was too hard, i managed to complete with one char with 6 or 7 continues, but then I'm an expert button basher. Had a couple of goes online thought I'd get beaten by some 10 year old yank and get called douche bag, but once again my superior button bashing technique seemed to work. As whether the combat system is as nicely balanced as say Tekken series or soul calibur I can't really tell at this stage

  • Beansss #173 6 years ago

    EG have reviewed a game called "jump off a cliff its fun". They gave it a 10/10 due to the impressive physics engine, and many other reasons, all accounted for in the solid review. Estimates predicts the 5 or 6 EG fanboys in existance purchase the game devoloped by "retarded games inc" and hail the "UBER MESSIAH OF TEH PWNZORZ GAMES" EG.Because after all it was reviewed by grumpy fat beer drinking sods like themselves (or uber leeeet omg im pwnzorz incarnate gamers), who are 32 year old virgins. Another prediction is that the 5 Fanboys jump off a local cliff shouting "WHEEEEEE OMG EG PWNZ TEH NEWB DOA4". Unfortunately, the ground answers back: "PWNED NEWB".

  • moggsy #174 6 years ago

    I think it may be time for EG to consider not rating games. Just give your opinion on them and forget about giving it a score. It might, just might, quiet down all of the people who get offended by scores less than 9 on games they've built up in their minds as being the new messiah...

  • Carrybagma #175 6 years ago

    I wonder if Microsoft will rush a launch again? Whatever anyone thinks of reviews and opinions on this site, there's a clear indication of poor quality control on 360 games, interfaces and the whole production/delivery thing is unlikely to be sorted for months. Nice try and all that, but perhaps a lesson learned.

    Still, most other sites seem content to overlook the quality control, so maybe Microsoft aren't bothered.

  • Stickman #176 6 years ago

    Beansss, why the three s's? Did your forehead wand get caught?

  • Furbs #177 6 years ago

    Carrybagma, can you give some examples? I've had no interface problems (infact its the best part of it), and actually had no problem picking up the console. Accepted, their peripheral distribution could have been better, but they arent alone - have you seen many of JoyTechs leads on the shelves for instance?

  • Zuiyo #178 6 years ago

    I just had a couple of rounds (OK, about 6 or 7) at GAME in Oxford St. and, just my 3 pennies.

    Visually stunning, really spectacular. In this sense the game is close to be the greatest game show on earth right now.

    Fighting mechanic is bland: models do not seem to have the firm solidity of body contact other fighters such as T5 od SCIII have, and this made the whole thing unrealistic and a bit messy.

    Too fast: it lacks clarity because the action is incredibly fast. In this sense, I feel a great difference between this and the Soulcalibur series, for instance, in the sense that fast characters and slow characters are balanced. Everybody seems to move at lightning speeds here which frankly, does not make the graphics any favour - there's no time to see them properly.

    Other than that, if I had a HD TV, no consoles and wanted to get a fighting game, I'd get this right now. Unfortunately I have barely touched SCIII (still trying to find time to finish SCII on GC) and don't own a 360.

  • JonFE #179 6 years ago

    Shinj, I've stayed out of this debate (game is in the mail, so no personal opinion formed), but can you honestly say that DoA4 is actually worst that DoA Ultimate? Because the 6/10 score sure suggests so...

    ...and since we are on that subject, how would you rate the netcode of DoAU?

  • Yossarian #180 6 years ago

    Eurogamer in low Xbox 360 score shocker

  • Shinji #181 6 years ago

    JonFE - yes, I'd rate DOAU above DOA4, significantly so. I think the gameplay is better, the single-player modes are far better fleshed out and the reward system is better, and the graphics look great and really push the system it's running on the the limits.

    However, the netcode is poor - in fact, it's probably just as bad as DOA4. That's something I mistakenly glossed over in my original review of DOAU, based on two false assumptions - firstly, that my experience of it then, playing against the one other person I knew who had a copy and who happened to be on the same ISP as me, would be mirrored by the experience of people playing against multiple rivals in less ideal-world situations; secondly, that any flaws I did note would be fixed. A few months down the line, it became apparent that this wasn't the case, and the same flaws are now found in DOA4, but exacerbated by the even faster gameplay.

    That was a mistake, and I freely admit it. However - would I have marked DOAU down if I'd taken the same stance over its netcode then? Probably not. As I noted in the review, 90% of Xbox users (more than that in the UK) didn't use Live, and therefore the review score and the bulk of the text was aimed at people who wouldn't play online. Everything Microsoft has said so far suggests that this isn't true of Xbox 360, so while the offline experience is still extremely important, I think it's fairer on this platform to weight the reviews more heavily towards online components.

  • TripSkyway #182 6 years ago

    In my experience the net code has been far from un-playable, with only 2 or 3 slow mo fights in my 20 or so hours with the game. Prior to writing this I was just playing with a friend in england from japan with 4 or five spectators, and the speed was comparable to the single player experience.

    I understand you can only write form your experience of the game, as can I. But the labling of the net code as un workable, does not match my experience hence the comment. It seems a shame you had such a bad experience online as you so obviously like the DOA series far more than me.
    Edited by 1 at 27/01/06 @ 15:02

  • JonFE #183 6 years ago

    Shinj, thank you for the prompt response.

    I will form my own opinion when DoA4 arrives... Until then, one last question:
    do you think that people who enjoyed the last two offerings in the DoA series (3/U), despite their 'flaws' (as pointed out in their reviews and, in retrospect, here) will equally enjoy this one?
    Edited by 1 at 27/01/06 @ 15:12

  • jamesbee #184 6 years ago

    I have had the game for a day and I have yet to experience an online game that was anything close to lag free. A few matches were running in complete slow motion. I am talking less than 10fps. I am living in Germany and this was against german players and some from close european countries.

    Terrible!!

  • Rambaldi #185 6 years ago

    @Shinji

    For arguments sake, let's say that you're right and the game is woefully underdeveloped. Let's say EG was right about Kameo (although there I do disagree there as I've completed and enjoyed it). Let's say that the string of luke-warm to dire reviews is wholly justified and that the particulalry nasty comments about PGR3 and MS in your 'best of 2005' feature were spot on.

    Why do you think the vast majority of the editorial community disagrees with you? Are you surprised about the cynical reaction of many of your readers (me included)? Do you think that (perhaps) EG has allowed it's personal in-house climate to muddy it's public (and one would hope, objective) view of the 360?
    Edited by 1 at 27/01/06 @ 15:42

  • Shinji #186 6 years ago

    Let me just start by saying that speculating on what the motives of other publications may be is not something I'm prepared to do. I don't know how the review or decision making process works at GameSpot, IGN, or any other publication except for this one, so I won't comment on that.

    However, I do think it's worth pointing out that when you compare Eurogamer's reviews to "the vast majority of the editorial community", what you actually mean is US sites and magazines, catering to US gamers with US tastes. Eurogamer is an English language multi-format games site catering to European gamers and European tastes. As such, it's natural that we should have different opinions on many things to those held by our counterparts in the USA - in just the same way that I would not expect US reviewers to wet themselves over Japanese dating sims, we too will review things from an entirely different cultural standpoint and general point of view than Americans do.

    So who, in fact, are our peers? I can think of only three major English language multi-format publications outside the United States: Eurogamer, EDGE, and GamesTM. If you place our scores alongside scores from THOSE publications, then I think you'll find that while we're certainly still tough in our marking, the trend in terms of scoring will be much, much more consistent.

    Take this title. The GameRankings average, counting mostly US websites, is nearly 90 per cent. I don't know what the GamesTM score for the game was (perhaps someone can enlighten me?), but EDGE gave it a seven, and we gave it a six, for a UK multi-format publication average of 6.5.

    Do we still seem so far out of line with our peers, once that's taken into consideration? Or could it just be that we're actually living up to the remit of the site and providing coverage for European readers, from a European point of view, even when that coverage diverges from what sites writing for American readers, from an American point of view, are saying?

  • Ryu #187 6 years ago

    Wow, judging from the number of whiners on this article, I wouldn't be surprised if Microsoft recruited people to conduct a mass whine on sites which give its games an average score.

  • Rambaldi #188 6 years ago

    LOL!!! I wish!!! Besides, if Shinji really thought that's what I was, I doubt he would take the bait.

    I'm not TRYING to be a pain in the arse, I just have (as a gamer and review reader of some 25 years) been quite surprised by the generally negative response by EG towards 360-land. I think it's admirable that Shinji takes time to read and reply to forum posts and still have a great deal of respect for the site.

    *Sorry Bill...I'll type faster next time;)*
    Edited by 6 at 27/01/06 @ 16:02

  • Scientist #189 6 years ago

    Shinji, I just want to congratulate you or your ability to respond to morons in a measured and informed way.

    People can so bloody precious!

    I can picture you at your desk effing and blinding every time you press F5. "Oh FFS!" :-)

  • Rambaldi #190 6 years ago

    Nice...intelligent...

  • Ihya #191 6 years ago

    I for one prefer the Edge and Eurogamer style of review that doesn't shoot it's load over any game that is supposed to be the next best thing. I seriously lost my confidence in Gamespot after THAT Perfect Dark Zero review. Loads of sites called Doom 3 the best thing since sliced bread. Edge said what it saw, and marked it down accordingly.

    Both EG and Edge take the games apart to nut and bolt level, examine, then piece together, saying what they see. They justify their arguments well. You know why they hate or love a game. And they are tough on scoring in general. Which is exactly what I want, not some cheerleaders for brand X or Y telling me to believe the hype.

    I think we have the vocal minority here kicking off about it being harsh, when in my book it is harsh and yet fair (yup, played it)... 360 fundermentalists whose religious veiws are being questioned.

  • nickyickywickywoo #192 6 years ago

    I can picture you at your desk effing and blinding every time you press F5. "Oh FFS!" :-)

    Heh, he's not the only one ;)

  • Rambaldi #193 6 years ago

    Point taken. That is, however, why I eventually stopped buying Q, NME, EDGE etc. For me (you wouldn't believe it for all the 'whinging' I'm doing) the glass is half-full. I LIKE reviews that lean on the side of positivity and enthusiasm. It makes me feel like it's been written by someone who's not forgotten the charm of the medium and become too jaded. It (amongst a wide variety of other things!) makes me feel like there's some fun left in the world.

    Let's just agree to disagree, eh chaps!

  • TheBard #194 6 years ago

    I like Eurogamers reviews. Let's take this DOA review as an example: It's written in a good, entertaining way. You understand the good and bad sides of the game. You learn something about game mechanic, handling and little quirks. You read about all the stuff which leads to the final review score and because of that, you really understand why the rating is what it is.

    Therefore, you are able to make your own decisions accordingly.

    If you have a very good internet connection, you can figure out that you may have less problems with the netcode than other people. If you plan to play this game only with some friends on the same couch, single player and online player are no issue at all.

    YOU ALONE know your gaming habits. And with this review, you know how the rating was created. And if your gaming habits aren't affected by the bad parts of the game, you can give it a higher score for yourself.

  • Zuiyo #195 6 years ago

    I'm with the Bard.

    Literally, we're having a cold pint at the magic town's tavern, watching through the window how a long-haired blonde bloke sword-battles a dragon with a goblin riding it.

  • Carrybagma #196 6 years ago

    Furbs - I thought it would a breeze to justify my comment, but after flicking back through stuff and also what's current, I'm finding it very hard. Criticism of the interface is generally just opinion and narrow at that - ' format x doesn't work therefore interface=crap'. So scratch that. A quick flick through this site's reviews shows little criticism of QA, so scratch that too (for now - it's bugging me - I'll read more later. Maybe). The worst EG accusation gameswise seems to be laziness and overreliance on graphics. It's notable that only the multiplatform games review well. So, that leaves distribution and hardware QA. Ignoring PSU issues, it's too early to tell on h/w, so hoorah for distribution - the only well documented failing I can find! Are you saying it's easy to get a 360 in the UK though? Microsoft acknowledge undersupply, so is this a non-EU problem? I haven't tried myself - I'm intent on waiting 'til all 3 next-gens are out.

    Having said all that, I'm still quite underwhelmed by the 360 and it's primary content. Only Live and Arcade/Marketplace sound different and interesting, but I've not tried either. Still, it's just mho and I don't want to troll this thread (it's been been one of the better ones).

    EDIT:

    I forgot what I originally wrote and why - would you not agree that the whole launch schedule was a rush job and that it shows? How many of the titles so far would have been a whole lot better if developers hadn't stuck to 'keep it simple' in order to avoid complications and delay? Sorry - wrong thread, I know.
    Edited by 1 at 27/01/06 @ 16:51

  • TheBard #197 6 years ago

    @Zuiyo: Cheers! *downs a pint of ale*

  • HelloWorld #198 6 years ago

    Gamesradar just gave it 7/10, and an intelligent review too. I think a lot of the early reviews suck up to DOA so they can get early information, exclusives and stuff, and a lot of other reviewers pay more attention to what previous reviews have said than the actual game itself.

    I think when people say that "6/10 is shit" and that all magazines scores ought to work out at the same percentage, they are talking crap. The scale is there to be used. Other magazines that never give less than 50% might indeed mean that a game is crap when they give it 60%, but that isn't so here.

  • Rambaldi #199 6 years ago

    Good point. I've often thought that 0 - 10 was a daft scale. I teach kids see and there really are only so many types: great, good but lazy, tries hard, waste of space, spawn of satan and perhaps one or two more. If such a scale can be applied to humans, why do games need twice as many possible measures of 'ability'. Having said that I find game reviews that work on a 1 to 5 scale unsatisfying. It's a real conundrum! Anyone got any ideas?!
    Edited by 1 at 27/01/06 @ 18:05

  • Drakron #200 6 years ago

    Game reviews scores come from movie review scores and suffer "inflaction" for the exact same reasons ... trying to not piss off the publishers too much.

    In reality review scores are most from a 1-5 scale, except the "1" is the "5".

    The reason that does/did not happen with european publications is because the tradiction of movie reviews never suffered from the Hollywood interference and so we tend to get a real 1-10 system and not the masked 1-5 that plagues US reviews ... unfortuntatly we getting the same kind of interference that Hollywood did with movies with game publishers trying to inflate scores for marketing ... after all they are not shy on sticking a "GotY" sticker on a game box ...

  • Rambaldi #201 6 years ago

    Makes sense: the Americans can't stand sports that have low scores...makes sense that they would apply the same logic to entertainment assesment. Shame their revered leaders can't extend this logic to number of countries butt-fucked for profit.
    Edited by 1 at 27/01/06 @ 18:32

  • Rambaldi #202 6 years ago

    That would be better. God dammit it's their JOB to play games!!

  • Drakron #203 6 years ago

    I think people are missing the point of a review.

    A review is the reviewer opinion ... its not SCIENCE and the reader in the end have to take their word for it.

    I know many of you will get it despite the EG score, the only reason you want a higher score or more reviews (and reviews that praise the game, lets be honest here) in order to feel good about your game being praised.

    That is why we having the argument ... if FF XII turns into utter poo (and I am holding judgement on that one) and gets a lower score we see this again, just with FF fanboys instead.

  • morriss #204 6 years ago

    Shinji wrote: Quote: "Eurogamer is an English language multi-format games site catering to European gamers and European tastes. As such, it's natural that we should have different opinions on many things to those held by our counterparts in the USA - in just the same way that I would not expect US reviewers to wet themselves over Japanese dating sims, we too will review things from an entirely different cultural standpoint and general point of view than Americans do. " Unquote.

    Japanese dating sims aside. The majority of UK Gamers buy EA sports titles: they buy BF2, Tom Clancey and Sam Fisher. They buy NBA, NFL and NHL titles. They buy endless amount of racers, with American bands in the soundtracks and American cars. In fact, the British market pretty much mirrors the US one.

    So I'd like to know what demographic you're reviewing for and what kind of research you've done into what UK/Euro gamers want? Because I can't really see how that argument sticks tbh.
    Edited by 3 at 27/01/06 @ 20:02

  • thefilthandthefury #205 6 years ago

    Never been too keen on EG's scores to be honest, and once again I have to disagree. Only been on the game a few hours mind, but I'm loving it.

    Also, I don't find it hard at all... and I'm awful at fighting games.

    Not to bash your review, I think it's very well written and isn't like SOME reviews on here that seem to only be about making jokes. Nicely done.

  • Drakron #206 6 years ago

    Morriss, are you honestly telling a reviewer to write to please a popular opinion instead of writting a article in clear consience?

    So you want for reviews to cater your tastes, if you think a game is bad ... well nobody can disagree then.

  • morriss #207 6 years ago

    How are you reading those things into what I said? Shinji said he wrote reviews that catered to a specific taste not me! He also said that taste was different to that of a US demographic. I said it wasn't.

    The opening paragraph is a quote from Shinji!!

    At the end of the day, if you know your userbase spends their hard earned money that many don't really have on stuff you recommend, you have a responsiblity, whether you like it or not.
    Edited by 1 at 27/01/06 @ 20:01

  • Stickman #208 6 years ago

    morriss, for God's sake, we will not bring about another holocaust, now please stop asking.

    edit - or am I reading into your comments too much? ;)
    Edited by 1 at 27/01/06 @ 20:21

  • ebe #209 6 years ago

    Jeez, why did I not readyyour review!! This game is exactly a pain, for
    exactly all of the reason you mentioned !
    Gratz to you, again you show distinction VS all the general "hobby" web site...
    I regret the price for such a laggy online game, unpleasing solo-playing....
    Congratz to your site.
    (geez, that's a lot of crap lately, OXM DVD crap on my profile, this game..)

  • thegamesthething #210 6 years ago

    so job done it would seem

  • ilmaestro #211 6 years ago

    What is really enlightening here is that the tards who are trying to attack the review on the basis of the score are doing it in the worst ways - 'I'm rubbish at fighting games but this isn't hard'!! People who are good at fighting games and have played a lot of DOA throughout the series will tell you that DOA4 *is* hard. It's supposed to be. Itagaki wanted to make a fighting game that could be perceived as 'hardcore'. So, smaller window for counters, much more emphasis on learning a wide range of characters, much more detailed knowledge of a character needed to produce the truly damage-dealing bounce combos etc., I'm sure that if you ever got the chance to speak to one of the dev team they could give you a detailed breakdown of how much harder the game is. I love the game, and I think that you can get better at the single player by getting better at the game rather than having a string of 'lucky' games where the AI makes errors at the right time, but there are some flaws. I have experienced laggy games and smooth games online, on what you could call an 'average' connection, and I think someone mentioned the game being too fast - it's an arguable point, the emphasis has been shifted so far over to attacking and not getting caught on the back foot at the right time that it feels more high-octane but you still can't just rush in at all times. As for saying that all the characters are too fast and there isn't enough variety, you couldn't watch a match between, say Ayane and Tina, or priority-whore Brad and Bass and still think that.

  • admir #212 6 years ago

    DoA series sucks
    i played DoA2 on the PS2 and it sucked
    hate this game. worst game ever. stop making this game

  • jlaakso #213 6 years ago

    Seems like a lot of people absolutely need their new console's launch titles to be all that. I can live with a game being merely "good", no matter how much I like it, myself. I haven't played DOA4, but I really liked DOA3, so it looks like I might enjoy this a lot. We'll see, but I really appreciate reviewers who take their time to explain why they feel a certain way about a game.

    Publications have their reputation on the line when they deviate remarkably from the average score a game is given. I believe this is not done lightly, at least in print magazines.

    Another point: this review wouldn't have needed a score in the end. I would much prefer all reviews to be that way. The score seems to be a sort of cop-out when the reiew hasn't quite done its job on the merits of the text alone.

  • thefilthandthefury #214 6 years ago

    @ilmaestro

    How is it hard? I've only had the game a few hours and completed it eight times. This coming from me, Mr. I Can't Play Fighting Games.

    Not that I'm complaining, I'm loving the game.
    Edited by 1 at 27/01/06 @ 23:05

  • Tiger_Walts #215 6 years ago

    I think EG should rate games in terms of 'Motorbikes', evaluating games by comparing it to a certain model and quantity of motorbike.

    Most games would aim for the coveted "5 Suzuki GSX1300R Hayabusas"

    DOA4 would relate to, say "3 Honda CBR900 Firblades"

  • Kiigan #216 6 years ago

    A very good review IMO.

    I do disagree with Rob's take on DOA3 - which for all its flaws is actually still extremely enjoyable, accessible and satisfying to play, and well worth a shot if you get pissed off with DOA4.

    But yeah, DOA4 single player is the opposite of fun. I get the feeling that the game is made for some increasingly hypothetical hardcore masochistic DOA obsessive, but really it is just a horrid experience, even if you splash out the cash for the arcade stick (which I did).

  • Xerx3s #217 6 years ago

    I dunno about other ppl, but i thought DOA3 was actually quit good. And im not alone in that oppinion. All of me mates think that DOA3 is ace. Sure its diffrent from 1 and 2, but i wouldnt say its worse. So i think i can scratch most of his comments about the worst DOA game to date.

    And to hard? Its something EG is saying alot about games these days, but htf can a game be to hard? A game has a a certain difficulty, but its all based on the rules of the game. Makes it more interesting to beat the game id say. 0_o

  • Shinji #218 6 years ago

    You'll notice that my complaint isn't actually that it's too hard; it's that it's unrewarding. I don't object to being asked to do something really hard in a game, as long as there's a sensation while I work towards it that I'm progressing towards a goal. Ninja Gaiden is an excellent example of a game where you're challenged with something tough as nails, but you don't mind trying again and again because you can feel your ability improving and you know you're inching closer to the accomplishment. DOA4 fails to give that impression, and after trying over and over again, you'll eventually win tough battles in a very unsatisfying way which just doesn't feel like your skill had anything to do with it.

    That's not a difficulty level problem, it's a poorly designed reward system and an inadequate amount of time spent testing the balance of the game.

  • TripSkyway #219 6 years ago

    Having gone back to play the single player again after a break of several weeks, my earlier coment about the AI being similar to getting beating online now seems way off. It can extremely frustrating and a very different experience to playing a skilled online opponent.

    Online is where I've had the most fun and if so many people are having a hard time with the network performance then the games value drops in my opinion. Without online it would probably lucky to scrape a 6 for me.

  • Genji #220 6 years ago

    "For arguments sake, let's say that you're right and the game is woefully underdeveloped. Let's say EG was right about Kameo (although there I do disagree there as I've completed and enjoyed it)."

    Is there really a "right" opinion when it comes to things like this? The only "right" thing to write would be an honest, well-reasoned opinion. Right?

  • kaosridder #221 6 years ago

    I dont get this "bad netcode".
    This is the first time I have come across this opinion. Played at a friends yesterday. His connection is 512/512 and it was bloody fluent as long as you choose the green connections (and who wouldn't?).
    Didnt it oocur to any of you that it just might be your connection and not sloppy code? Or is that hard to fathom?
    Plus what the hell are people on about with "bad netcode" in ultimate. Works like a charm, too.
    Oh, I forgot. You are pretty much all computerprogrammers who knows exactly what netcode is used and not some brainless nitwits. Sorry.

  • staypuft #222 6 years ago

    I been reading this site for ages but never bothered to comment on any game but the reaction to this review really annoyed me. This site and Edge magazine both print excellent, well thought reviews. This and Penny Arcade are about the only two game sites that i actually trust. Like an earlier poster I think this comes from the European nature of this site. Compare Eurogamer's quality to crap like IGN.

    What's the point in having a ten point scale if you're not allowed use the whole range. In contrast there are plenty of sites which will print paid for reviews and inflate their scores. I suggest that those who are complaining about the review sod off to one of those sites.

    To be honest ever since the 360 was released the comments thread for most of the games have been hijacked by fanboys. I think the site should disable comments. I'd much prefer to see the site reviewers putting their enery into reviewing games rather than having to defend themselves against the trolls in the comment section. Edge wouldn't give a forum to these muppets. Why should Eurogamer?

  • [maven] #223 6 years ago

    kaosrider, for more complaints about the netcode, watch for example "the 1up show" episode 12 (which is excellent in general IMO).

  • Dizzy #224 6 years ago

    Damn those Americans giving high scores! Also damn those Japanese for giving DOA a 37/40. All a bunch of wussies! Luckily EG have the balls to score a good game low. It's always nice to pretend you are cool and different. I am sure the cheque is in the mail!

  • Agent_Llama #225 6 years ago

    I do wish the fan boys would read the reviews properly. What EG have said is perfectly fair.

    Personally I twittered on for months about how exciting the 360 was gonna be - and I've barely touched it since finished PGR, which lasted me a couple of weeks. Get over it chaps, the 360 games out at the moment are dull dull dull and many are rush jobs. A sad fact coming from a huge Xbox fan but true, go on, just admit it to yourself.

    Roll on Oblivion...

  • captain-future #226 6 years ago

    after a few hours of DOA4 gameplay I have to say that I miss the "punch" of the game. I'm a huge fan of Itagaki games and my hopes were hyper-sky-high for this game - the first "launch"-title that really interested me on X360.

    IMHO the author of this review hasn't really played the game for a long time (I'm only referring to single player mode - I'm not online). because my first impression was pure devastation about the DOA3.2 - it missed that special fuzzy feeling that all other DOA-games had.

    yet after some hours you see that it was intenionally designed that way. I call it the "flow of gameplay" - you get a better feeling for your characters, learn new moves and learn that the counter is the most important move.

    because I haven't played the game for very long I can't judge it at the moment, yet I really really wonder what the review guy played? also I don't think the graphics were that exceptionally - the camera moves on the other hand are great. and I'm disappointed about the characters end movies - nothing special here, only Zack's was really funny.

  • pcallaghan #227 6 years ago

    At Staypuft

    You are obviously annoyed at the comments in this thread, yet you add fuel to the fire.

    Everyone should be allowed their say. The day EG disable users for giving their opinions, is the day I....

    ...Stop reading the site.

    By the way - DOA4 (shock horror! back on topic) is pretty good imho, perhaps 7/8 out of 10. But obviously this is only my opinion as a tard fanboi (i.e. has a different opinion to you).

  • captain-future #228 6 years ago

    I feel this review has 5 problems ;)

    5 Problems with Videogame Journalism
    http://firingsquad.com/features/problems_wit h_video_game_journalism/

    IMHO very good DOA4 review
    http://www.firingsquad.com/games/dead_or_alive_4_review/

  • Stickman #229 6 years ago

    staypuft - going on your user id, I imagine you already know you're wasing your breath! ;)

  • sibod1 #230 6 years ago

    THe thing is, those that think Eurogamer are actually any good at reviewing, seem to cite 'good honest reviews' as being the reason.

    The thing is, simply being down on a hyped game does not especially mean they are any good at reviewing.

    What seems to be a trend with these so called 'high brow' reviews is that they deliberately over-salt the wound. If they find a fault, they concentrate on it, over-blow it is fundamental importance, claim it makes the game either un-playable or vastly below average.

    The trouble with these reviews is that they concentrate almost exclusively on the technicalities in a game. At the end of the day, I have to say it must be hard enjoying a game if your goal is to simply find a checklist of faults so that you can pick it apart.

    When it comes to high-profile, system exclusive games, if Eurogamer has a particular opinion already, it seems to go with that as the basis of that review. So in other words, a game has to be EXCEPTIONALLY fantastic if it gets above average scores.

    Regular games dont seem to have so much time invested in them. Hence the likes of Ridge Racer 6 get such over the top scores.

    As for the anti-360 bias - well, why is it that almost exclusively, all the top games for a Microsoft system get below-average scores, well below the internet and magazine wide average on Eurogamer? The controversial Halo review, Kameo, PGR3, etc.

    Shinji, you obviously believe that you arent biased, but heck, you write for Eurogamer, you talk to and communicate regularly with it's editorial staff, there must be a common opinion amongst you all for you to be invited to write here at all.

    Most people here have not touched DOA4, or any of the games they claim to have agreed with Eurogamer on, many just played a few minutes in store.

    THe review seems to miss the whole point of what DOA4 is about. The Online being the main thing, with competition amongst humans. Rewards? How about beating someone who has mastered the game?

    Its like criticising Unreal Tournament for having a weak single player game.

    As for the lag - well, that's your connection latency rather than the game. How about checking what traffic shaping your ISP has, compare it to other ISPs?

    If the code is at fault, then Team Ninja are indeed working on updates to DOA4 to fix some of the known bugs, maybe that will be corrected.

    Either way, DOA4 is certainly worth a higher score than the low one this site gave it.

  • onyxbox #231 6 years ago

    just been playing this in GAME (Rhyl) and then the sales guy told me they had a 360 premium in stock I could buy.

    my reply... 'meh.' looks like DOA 3 to me on a better screen. How is this 60,000 times more powefull than the XBOX

    ;-)

  • gaystation3 #232 6 years ago

    6/10? Wat a lod of bollix! A buch of chimps with tipwriters could have writen a better reveiw than this! U suk big timne!

  • thefilthandthefury #233 6 years ago

    @Agent_Llama

    Maybe the games are dull to you, but I find the majority of them extremely enjoyable. Maybe this is because I don't expect every game I buy to be the best thing since sliced bread.

  • Drakron #234 6 years ago

    The problem is this.

    You view a 6/10 as a 2/5 ...

  • Eighthours #235 6 years ago

    Do we still seem so far out of line with our peers, once that's taken into consideration? Or could it just be that we're actually living up to the remit of the site and providing coverage for European readers, from a European point of view, even when that coverage diverges from what sites writing for American readers, from an American point of view, are saying?

    Nothing wrong with that at all.

    But what seems to get fanboys in a twist is how your 360 coverage "appears" on the surface to differ in tone from your Sony coverage, ever since the "real next gen" debacle at E3 2005 (EG's lowest point by far). This is in terms of news, features and (yes) reviews.

    Just take that news headline from Friday, "Microsoft suffers big fat loss." The actual article has nothing wrong with it at all, it's that title - compare it with the rest of the news headlines on the page and see how far it stands out.

    When you had interviews with the Sony and Microsoft bigwigs a few weeks back, they were miles apart in approach. It may have been a limit on the kind of questions you could ask each person, and it was 2 different interviewers, but sadly one read like a puff piece and the other read like a grilling.

    Perhaps people are starting to look for absolutely anything now, having got the "scent", and overreacting to very small things, but seriously guys there are loads of people over the good old Interweb who've renamed you "Sonygamer". And that can't be good for the reputation of the site.

    EG loyalists, please don't throw your toys out of the pram over this post, I'm just trying to explain why there is this group of people who cry foul over every less than stellar 360 mark.

    As for this DOA4 review, I think it's well argued and perfectly reasonable, and aside from the ridiculous news headline yesterday, the last few bits of 360 coverage have been very good.

    *dons flame-retardant suit*


  • drumbaby #236 6 years ago

    "why there is this group of people who cry foul over every less than stellar 360 markW

    The 'every' is the clue. They're clearly obsessed, and with nothing better to do with their time.

  • Kain_Cross #237 6 years ago

    Eurogamer should just remove the damn scores. People focus WAY too much on the number at the bottom of the page.

  • ilmaestro #238 6 years ago

    @ tfatf:

    What is your high score on survival and your best time on time attack? How do they compare with your first few scores/times? Also, on average, how many times do you lose a round playing through story mode, and on what difficulty?

  • captain-future #239 6 years ago

    played the game online and had NONE whatsoever lag, maybe you guys really should check your ISP latency.

    and the graphics are just DOA3.2, ok I play on standard television but on the Xbox 360 kiosk it didn't look that much better.

    my conclusion: once again EG got me. IMHO EG just does this on purpose to ingnite the comments section... and it works.

  • manuel_garcia #240 6 years ago

    I dont believe this site is inherantly biased in anyway, just trying too hard to be the online Edge for its own liking. Dont get me wrong, i like edge for the editorial, thats why i buy it every month, but they tend to lose focus when it comes to reviewing the games and forget what its like to actually enjoy yourself once in a while. 'Jaded' would be the best way to describe it.

    This site seems to have gone that way, with low scores and general negativity all the time in the reviews. Might be worth one or two of you taking a step back and thinking if you actually still enjoy what your doing, because people actually listen to what you say, and make purchasing desicions based on your reviews, which is sad to see in a case like this.

    Hell it must be difficult playing so much cack to get to the good stuff once in a while, but when you cant even enjoy the good games, and have to nitpick every little point (regardless of the platform, fanboys) to make sure the game scores low, I think its time to stop playing.

    Theres no editorial on the site, and the news is covered much quicker and better elsewhere, the reviews were where this place used to shine, and without them, quite frankly you've just lost yet another reader.
    Edited by 1 at 28/01/06 @ 21:11

  • gaystation3 #241 6 years ago

    This site is an fukin digrase. Every other site reveiwed this game and it got either 8 or a 9 but on here it get a 6! NO FUKIN WAY! juz becos u is biezed $ony lovers u r givin xbox 360 games low scorz!? i only reed this site today.

  • tengu #242 6 years ago

    /Runs previous post through translation website

    /Internet explodes

  • thefilthandthefury #243 6 years ago

    @ ilmaestro

    My current high score on survival is 19 and on Time Attack it's 5 min 48.

    Not particularly great, but I'm getting there. That survival score is my first attempt, but my first attempt at Time Attack threw up 15 mins.

    The amount of rounds I've lost really varies per character. If I'm using Ayane the computer will beat me maybe once. If I'm using someone like Bass or Zack then I lose a hell of a lot. Kokoro is somewhere in the middle.

    I play on the default 'normal' difficulty, and have completed the game with every character in under 20 hours of owning it.

    Again though, I'm NOT good at the game. I go online and get absolutely annihilated. There's obviously people a lot better.

  • Feanor #244 6 years ago

    I thought that was a very fair post, Eighthours. I really don't know what EG were thinking with their "Microsoft suffers big fat loss" headline. I don't mind headlines completely going against the contents of the article if the headline is funny or clever. But this headline wasn't, so it was just really, really odd.

  • OnlyMe #245 6 years ago

    There's no really no point in using the whole scale if you can't recommend games above 5/10 - as they are average titles, which people who wouldn't require every game to be a classic could enjoy. 6/10 should be an above-average title, so if the game isn't recommended, then I don't see why one should use the whole scale.

    This isn't directed at EG, as I've yet to really read the review, just a thought I had.

  • thefilthandthefury #246 6 years ago

    Nice post OnlyMe. I've always said that average games should be scored 5/10, and anything above that is a good/great game. The scoring system here (and in 99% of other websites and magazines) is just plain wrong.
    Edited by 1 at 29/01/06 @ 10:05

  • Darth_Flibble #247 6 years ago

    I think it's so funny people are getting pissed off a game didn't get 8 or 9, people that are getting pissed off are going to buy it anyway.

    Eurogamer is one of the least biased gaming sites (unlike IGN)

  • mrpsb #248 6 years ago

    To be fair if I'd spent 300 quid on a console and another 50 on ONE GAME, I'd be a teensy bit defensive of my purchases as well.

  • gylo #249 6 years ago

    gaystation3 makes me laugh :@)

  • Darren #250 6 years ago

    Having played the game for over 10 hours, I'm finding myself agreeing with Eurogamer's review and score. DOA 4 as a single player game is flawed and works far better when you play against a friend or online (lag permitting).

    If Xbox DOA Ultimate had been backward compatible then there would have been absolutely no justification for releasing DOA 4 on the Xbox 360 because in my opinion DOA Ultimate is the better game being based on the best game in the series so far, DOA 2 which was absolutely sublime on the Dreamcast (less so on the PS2)...

  • OnlyMe #251 6 years ago

    There was absolutely no differences between DOA2 Dreamcast and DOA2 PS2. You could have 60hz in both, and the graphics were the same. What differences do you see?

    I have/had both games and while I prefer the DC version it's basically because I'm desperate to have DC games in my library that I like (I think the DC is a tad bit overrated). Not that one version is better than the other.
    Edited by 1 at 29/01/06 @ 13:32

  • captain-future #252 6 years ago

    DOA2 on Dreamcast looked a little bit better IMHO.

  • tengu #253 6 years ago

    Nah, I think both versions looked the same as well, but the Dreamcast version benefitted greatly from having a PAL 60hz option, whereas the PS2 version only had MTSC 60hz iirc.

    Plus the Dreamcast pad was the best pad for beat em ups of any console in the current gen imo.

  • Eighthours #254 6 years ago

    To be fair if I'd spent 300 quid on a console and another 50 on ONE GAME, I'd be a teensy bit defensive of my purchases as well.

    I swear I've seen this post before in every single Xbox 360 comments page. And it doesn't get any less stupid.

  • smelly #255 6 years ago

    Eighthours - he still has a poiint though.

    Why cry over a review score not being as high as you'd like it to be? Unless it's purely to be defensive?

  • thefilthandthefury #256 6 years ago

    Well crying over it is a bit stupid, but the reason for these comment sections is to discuss your views on the review surely?

  • smelly #257 6 years ago

    aye - guess so. Just some people seem to be getting needlessly over sensitive about a score?!?

    I havent played it, In fact I haven't played DOA since the original on the ps1 (which i thought was shite, so have never gone back to it), so I cant comment.

    Although i suspect tehre are lots of people on here going on about how great it is, who havent played it either. That's just plain sad (and yes, I know some of you have done!).

    Ah well. Cue the "smellys a nintendo fanboy who hates microsoft" comments.

  • Saii #258 6 years ago

    I've got mixed feelings but I'm going to try and break them down. I haven't played this game for more than a few hours, so correct me if I'm wrong anywhere.
    I'm a fan of the DOA series and been one since the first game came out on the Saturn.
    DOA:Ultimate was an amazing game, improving on the nice graphics of 3 and turning back to the balanced fighting system of 2.

    4 has a system which has become more like 3 and could be slightly unbalanced. The graphics are only slightly better than U. If the game weren't rushed, maybe more levels would be as detailed as the beachside (etc) and the graphics would be a remarkable step up. Other fighters [like Virtua Fighter, soul calibur and tekken] have come out recently have had AIs based on reallife human players in the arcades. Possibly because DOA is not in arcades, this kind of AI isn't in the game and you are left fighting against un-lifelike AI. AI

  • Saii #259 6 years ago

    AI [is not as good as than] Human-modelled-AI [is not as good as than] playing a real life person.
    Nowadays, I also expect more modes from my fighting games. Guilty Gear and Tekken have remarkable story modes. DOA4's storymode is okay, but not on the same level.
    I want to have training modes like Soul Calibur and Virtua Fighter, that teach beginners about the system and give experts more knowledge to work with.
    I want my verses mode to allow players to change the size of their life-bar/handicap without leaving the mode and going into options. The system in place in SC being a great example of it done right.

    So what is DOA4 like? In some respects it is a little better than U and in some respects maybe not as good. There's a small list of things which could have easily done and maybe should have been done to add to the game too.
    Final impressions say that this is DOAUv1.5 at best DOA3.5 at worst.
    But I expect more from my £50 + £300 console.

    6/10 seems about right.
    Also bear in mind that alot of gaming mags have given similar beat'em'up games of lower profile the same score before. Guilty Gear XX being scored 6/10 purely because it wasn't 3D.
    Here's hoping for a DOA:Ultimate2
    Edited by 1 at 29/01/06 @ 22:05

  • Rambaldi #260 6 years ago

    @Genji

    Nope, sorry. I'm not going to go all lefty on reviewers and provide them with a cushion embroided with the immortal words: "it's only an opinion". The simple fact that they give games a mark out of ten leads me to at best call it an assesment and at worst a judgement. Added to that they get paid to do it and should be prepared to take some flak from those who disagree. You don't find people in job interviews claiming that their grade D in Art was simply the exam board's 'opinion'. You grade it: you quantify it. You get it wrong: you take some stick. I have not played DOA4, but have played the majority of the 360 releases. I'm no fanboy (I owned all three consoles from the last-gen) but am old and experienced enough to spot bias when I see it. That Kameo review was criminal, as were the comments re: PGR3 in the 'best of 2005' feature.

    Edited by 2 at 29/01/06 @ 22:57

  • Lukus #261 6 years ago

    Crikey! That 6 out of 10 review sure has pissed off the fan boys!

  • thefilthandthefury #262 6 years ago

    I think we established that many pages back.

  • Lukus #263 6 years ago

    Yeah, i'm just catching up with it all now. It's making for very entertaining reading!
    I particularly enjoyed gaystation3's insightful comments. I like to think it's a genuine comment and not a cutting satire, it's so much funnier that way!
    Edited by 2 at 30/01/06 @ 00:34

  • thefilthandthefury #264 6 years ago

    Haha, oh yes, lovely stuff indeed :)

    You will no doubt see my response, but I hope you appreciate the fact I'm not spamming the place like he is either!

  • Lukus #265 6 years ago

    I applaud your balanced opinions. I'm not a 360 owner (yet. I'm still happy with the original so far) but I'm keen for it to succeed and to have its fair share of great games. In fact I'm keen for all the new consoles to succeed as it simply means we, as gamers, win.

  • thefilthandthefury #266 6 years ago

    Exactly. The more good games the better!

  • Lukus #267 6 years ago

    Amen brother! (:

  • Feanor #268 6 years ago

    First!

    I mean, 302nd.

  • tengu #269 6 years ago

    Anyone see Gamecentral on Channel 4 today? DoA4 was savaged on it, gets 6/10 as well.

  • Shinji #270 6 years ago

    I'm no fanboy (I owned all three consoles from the last-gen) but am old and experienced enough to spot bias when I see it. That Kameo review was criminal, as were the comments re: PGR3 in the 'best of 2005' feature.

    Can't really comment on the PGR stuff, since I'm not really a racing game fan and haven't played the full version of PGR3 yet, but speaking purely as a gamer who sat down over the weekend to play Kameo on my shiny new 360... Well, I'm in pretty strong agreement with the review. It gets a hell of a lot better after the tragically awful first 40 minutes of play, but the game is still distinctly average. It's not offensively bad or anything like that; it's just not particularly compelling or notably entertaining in anything other than an "I'm bored, I'll play this a bit more in preference to sitting here scratching myself" sort of way. Average, in other words, especially since it's competing in a genre that includes games like Jak & Daxter, Ratchet & Clank, Zelda, etc...

    And what's the average score on a scale of one to ten...?

  • Stickman #271 6 years ago

    "I'm bored, I'll play this a bit more in preference to sitting here scratching myself"

    You must be doing something wrong when scratching yourself. One of man's greatest pleasures!

  • Darren #272 6 years ago

    @OnlyMe - By all accounts the PS2 version of DOA 2 should be the best version because it has more content (extra costumes and levels) as well as a higher polygon count (reputedly double that of the Dreamcast version: check out the uneven floor on the Church Tower level in the PS2 version compared with the DC version which is flat). Sadly all these extras are marred by horrible aliasing (it's was a very early PS2 game) and a total lack of mipmapping leading to flickery background textures and a rather grainy look.

    More importantly, in my opinion the game simply doesn't play as well as it does on the DC as it seems slightly slower. Finally I could play the game in VGA on the DC, which really made the graphics shine.

    It's for all these reasons that I consider the DC version the best version.

  • CyberClaw #273 6 years ago

    After spending the weekend playing DOA4, and fighting for my B+ rank (A rank, here I come), unlocking all the characters and costumes (a couple of more to go actually), and generally raping my thumbs of excessive and abusive fight game gaming (my thumbs are still sore, and I haven't picked the controler since last night - I haven't felt my thumbs like this since Street Fighter Alpha 3 came out in the PSX), I must say, DoA4 is excelent. The online play is brutal. Sure there is lag, like in many other games, but instead of skipping, like a FPS would do, the game enters a sort of slo-mo, so you don't actually loose any moves (lag is something unavoidable when facing so many different kinds of connections and so many different ISPs, but their solution was the best IMO).

    It'd get a 8/10 by me =) (7/10 for DOAU)

  • Genji #274 6 years ago

    @Rambaldi

    So it's "lefty" to say that different opinions on a game are just that - different? Not sure where you're pulling that one from, mate.

    This is not like an entrance test to an art school or whatever - this game will sell bucketloads regardless of what the reviewers think. It's a commercial product - it is designed to sell. That's why the boobies are there.

    If me and my friend see a movie, we're likely to have different opinions regarding it. We have different values. I will proclaim it to be the best movie ever made, while he thinks it's a pile of crap. These are opinions, and most likely we will have good reasons to hold them. We might disagree with each other, but our opinions are rarely "wrong" in an absolute sense.

    But back to the topic: what would you have this reviewer do? Would you like it better if he ignored all of the stuff that he saw to be major flaws and gave the game a higher score? Would you like it more if he lied? He says that he is an avid player of the DoA series - if he doesn't feel that this incarnation is as good as the previous ones, how could he justify giving it a similar score?

    Eh. Enough rambling - I'm going to bed.

  • Pachinko #275 6 years ago

    Don't know what kind of crappy broadband connection the reviewer was playing from, but I live in Central Europe and use a standard 1024/256 ADSL. I usually play against UK residents. Even with 4 players in a room (2 playing, 2 spectating) there was almost no lag, and when 2 or 3 people were in a room the log was definitely not an issue. Yes, there was lag when there were 6 or 8 people, but isn't that expected? I mean, it's kinda silly to bash a game for not offering lag-free 60 fps rock solid internet play with 8 people playing and watching. One has to be a little bit realistic, yes?

  • Saii #276 6 years ago

    I think that, when you look at some of the average scores that some reviewers are giving 360 titles right now, it isn't a case of bias against a console but more of a show of the laziness of the developers. In most of the games on this machine, it is the machine which has done all the hard work in giving developers more power to deal with, but they haven't really bothered to use much of it.
    For example, a majority of the games are either conversions of xbox game or sequels to established franchises which are in some respects inferior to the previous incarnation.

    1up had a great set of pictures showing the step-up in the last generation change and this one.
    The first picture compared Soul Blade and Soul Calibur.
    [a comparison of Sonic-R and Sonic Adventure would be an even greater illustration]
    The second picture compared an EA sports title in both xbox and 360 version. They looked exactly the same.

    The new generation titles are supposed to scream at us "LOOK WHAT WE CAN DO OMFGBBQ!"
    but they aren't
    People seem to have forgotten that the holy scores of 9+ were meant to be reserved for the outstanding titles. The FF7 and Goldeneyes of their time.
    Edited by 1 at 30/01/06 @ 20:21

  • admir #277 6 years ago

    DoA4 sucks
    if you want to play a good game play with yourself

  • miiiguel #278 6 years ago

    Thanks for the review, it clarified me, as I was asking myself some questions that have been answered quite clearly here.
    I wont buy it as I was into the "single-play thing".

  • miiiguel #279 6 years ago

    Saii: Graphics quality can't be forever exponential, or in 5 years we would have to have what ?, Nowdays you got some other important part to the equation - price, because if you diregard price you can have, what you can have.

  • Balasarius #280 6 years ago

    WTG, man. You just gained a reader.

    I chose DoA4 as my "token" Xbox360 game (I mostly bought it to play some original XBox games). It is thoroughly disappointing. The whole "counter" system has always been retarded. I found myself thoroughly wishing it was Soul Caliber.

    My only previous DoA was DoA2 for the PS2. Never again.

  • Spiral #281 6 years ago

    The counter system is the thing makes the DOA series different from all the other fighters out there. It's used to force the mix ups and delays that are the very core of the DOA mechanic, which makes it much more accessable than the traditional reliance on memorising movesets. Unfortunately as the graphics improved they decided that the counters had to look more and more flashy, and since they now look so cool they obviously take off around a third of your life in one go. Since then to fix that balance they've been making the counters harder to guess with, thus moving back towards the Soul Calibur situation where you have to memorise lots of character movesets to effectively defend, and which removes the original mechanics huge advantage of being easy to pick up. And lets be honest, if DOA starts to move even closer to Soul Calibur then there's only going to be one loser. Providing the Soul Calibur girls are willing to get thier tits out of course. ;)

  • Rambaldi #282 6 years ago

    @Genji

    I think your were tired mate! I meant 'lefty' as in 'liberal' i.e. not going all touchy, feely, understandy on reviewers.

    I also admitted that I hadn't played DOA4, but that I was commenting on the broader picture of 360 reviews so far.

    If there is no bias, why no XBLive arcade reviews? (there's some crackers in there!)

    I suggest you find those comments re:pGR3 in the 'best of 2005' feature. They make for an interesting read.

    Hope you slept well;)

  • Rambaldi #283 6 years ago

    @Shinji

    I suggest you too read those PGR3 comments: you'll see what I mean!

    And, over 4565 reviews, EG's average is 68.3% (source: Gamerankings). Round that to the nearest whole number: your average is 7/10

    At least that means that bollocks argument of 5 being average is out the water. It would appear that your reviews are atually more in-line with that American demographic. I'm pleased to see that the glass is, after all, half-full at EG;)

    So, Kameo is considerably BELOW average? You just said it was distinctly average!

    /sticks tounge in cheek

    (Interestingly, the LOWEST average review in 560 sites/mags accross the WORLD is 59.3% from XBN magazine. 5 = average my arse!)
    Edited by 4 at 31/01/06 @ 12:51

  • reality_cheque #284 6 years ago

    Half the people on this thread seem to think Team Ninja just shat on their cornflakes, the other half seem to think DOA4 has just reached divinity and is now looking to recruit it's own clerics (or by the sounds of it, already has).

    Therefore I proclaim this game as average.

  • rauper Verified Managing Director, Eurogamer Network #285 6 years ago

    @Rambaldi

    We review our games against a scale where 5 = average. Just looking at the average score of games we have reviewed doesn't paint the full picture as there are a hell of a lot of poorer than average games that we don't review - if there's no demand for a game, it's terrible, no-one has heard of it, it's not worth our time reviewing. These are the games that often would also get below 5 scores.

    However, if something is high profile, heavily marketed, attached to a big license and terrible then we will review it and that's when you start seeing the difference between us and some of the other major publications. i.e. Driv3r: 3/10 from us but 9/10 from Gamesradar and 8/10 from 1UP. Most people agreed with our review of that too, btw, but of course we had some haters then too who thought Driv3r was the best thing evar!11.

    It's impossible to please all the people all the time, and when some of X360's games that didn't have to be completed in a rush start coming out I'm sure you'll start seeing more 8's, 9's and 10's for the platform. Just as we did for the original Xbox.

  • Rambaldi #286 6 years ago

    @Rauper

    Thankyou for the response and point taken.

  • Calgon #287 6 years ago

    Most of the comments about the majority of reviewers here seem to have started to show bias have been said many times since E3 and it's true, it does look that way and keeps reoccuring(it's not just Xbox fanboys saying it now).

    Whether this is the case we cant be sure, very few people beleive they are on anyones payroll, but they will loose alot of readers if they do become partial to one console(Yeah! even Sony). Reviewers can be fanboys too, which is when sites lose all credability for some, before they pick up the pad they are already negative and unwilling to give the game a fair chance because they didnt see *insert favourate console brand here* on booting up the disk. Why I just dont understand if it is the case, the critisisms of the 360 games so far from them will most likely hold true when the PS3 launches, will they give PS3 games the same treatment? I doubt it very much, theyve been nothing but optimistic towards Sony and the PS3 so far. Thats inconsistant and unless they prove me wrong come the launch of the PS3 then IMO they deserve all the stick they get as a result, even the label of Sonygamer.

    As for the game itself I never enjoyed DOA3 much but I saw what it's strengths were for me, it was so fluid that to watch a fight was something special the animation and transition from each move to the next was new to me and Ive played many fighters. I didnt like the fact it relied on counters so much as they were far to easy to pull off and some moves are far to effective in such a way that you can use that one move over and over to win a round. More variations of punches, kicks and throws in your combos would be welcome as they all look the same to me. I prefer VF after playing one of the newer versions, I can only imagine what it would be like to have the fluidness of DOA with the sheer depth that VF offers, but perhaps thats more work than it sounds. As for the graphics well they arent way more impressive than DOA:U but come on!, they were the best graphics in a fighter anyway untill this and there are many improvements but they arent as obvious. It still looks more impressive than what weve seen of VF5 so far IMO.

    Im not sure about this review personally the comments on my first paragraph still stand though. Contrary to what the EG VF5 preview told us it could very well make its way onto xbox360 and you know what? I think it will sell better than previous efforts on the PS2 have, Sega are wise to look into it. So if it was a subtle attempt at "dont buy the 360 because I love sony and I reackon PS3 will be better" then it was pointless.
    Edited by 4 at 01/02/06 @ 19:23

  • bloodflowers #288 6 years ago

    Can people stop discussing 'shoddy netcode' until they understand it please?

    Fighting games need pretty much realtime network traffic - remember you're working with millisecond windows outside of which moves may not connect, may not reverse and so on. In other game types this doesn't have as much effect, and you can sacrifice some accuracy in favour of not syncing the players fully - racing games for example (this is a major source of 'YOU HIT ME' 'NO I DIDNT'). ISPs aren't great at providing this type of low latency service either, which is only getting worse as people demand more and more download speed, leading to overselling and flooded networks.

  • Rambaldi #289 6 years ago

    There is no shoddy net-code. I've just bought the game, had awful connections, turned off my PC, disconnected it from the 360 in the system blade and everything works just fine (even in busy rooms). Ridge Racer 6 has the same issues.

    A re-review (and some technical training) in order me-thinks.

  • mark1bdi #290 4 years ago

    An excellent review. I totally agree. Just played this game after having it in "the queue" for ages and thought the difficulty curve was horrific (particularly the final fight). 980 gamerpoints lost. Online was at best mental.

  • Slipstream #291 4 years ago

    This is actually one of my favorite beat em ups, and is great online! Probably because I reached A Rank xD but when I'm up against top players, the adrenaline rush and pounding of my heart is an incredible feeling. But yeah, you've gotta be rather skillful at this game to get what you're looking for out of it.