Def Jam: Fight For New York Review

By Patrick Garratt Published 27 September, 2004

The Iceberg gives us respec', bro. Because we kicked him half to death. Weirdo.

Version tested: Xbox

Order yours now from Simply Games.

"The Kids" are fickle beasts. Adults trying to be 'down' with them is quite possibly the most dangerous media event of any company's life, and if any attempt is ever made to do so, you'd better make damn sure you know what you're doing. EA probably knows what it's doing. There are only two ways games like Def Jam, of which Fight for New York is the second in the hip hop fight series, will ever be successful.

Firstly, the game is a big budget version of a tried and tested brand. Think Harry Potter. EA could have put Harry's kickable face on 10 million cottage cheese cartons with biro and called it a video game and it would have sold faster than the 'special' punch at village fetes. Really.

Secondly, the game is so stupid (only The Kids will understand), and features so many stupid things that The Kids so obviously love because they spend all their money trying to be like/look like/sound like the stupid things, that its success is assured. Fight for New York sits in this camp, along with Pokémon, although the Nintendo RPG is by far a superior proposition. Remember the word: stupid

Yo dope fool sucka... um... mother?

'Def Jam: Fight For New York' Screenshot 1

The Def Jam sequel is, quite literally, ridiculous. It surmises the following: The Kids like hip hop, The Kids like aspiring to be hip hop stars in terms of the way they talk and the way they dress, and The Kids obviously want to be hip hop stars embroiled in a culture of Fight Club-style ass-whupping nonsense. Def Jam surmised right.

Sean Paul, Ice-T, Snoop Dogg and just about every other rap star you've ever heard of (and plenty you haven't) appear with their true likenesses and voices in the game, in which you either take control of one of the aforementioned music people or create your own fighter. Shouting hero Henry Rollins is your coach, teaching you how to spend development points you earn during fights to improve your fighter, while D-Mob, L'il Kim and the rest of your 'homies' provide the backdrop to the Story mode. It's slick, funny and ultimately supremely daft. It's so teenage it hurts. Low-level expletives (as well as some rather high level ones, don't you know) are bandied round with absurd regularity. If you were 15 you'd love it.

The actual fighting is well above average. You square off against various opponents in different clubs, where you take them to task with punches, kicks, heavy versions of both, grappling, martial arts and other styles, weapons, crowd interaction and knock-out specials. The camera can be a little painful, but the overall feel and look is solid and high spec. And then you fight Ice-T as a boss Original Gangster plays in the background. We like that.

One-on-one action occasionally gives way to four-way fighting (multiplayer also goes up to four players) but this is less successful due to the fixed camera. You versus the Iceberg is where it's at.

"My name is Barbie!"

Unfortunately, you also have to dress your character in the manner of Barbie. This really is like playing with dolls. You spend your money on 'bling', haircuts, tattoos, sportswear and other stuff, with the gameplay excuse of causing the crowd to respect you more during fights. We all know the truth. "Wow, I just bought a new cap and got my ear pierced!" The Kids: being odd for all eternity.

Def Jam: Fight for New York is slick, mass-market entertainment for, well, the mass market. This is not a discerning game. It's exploitative and very well made, although not flawless enough to raise any eyebrows from those heavily into games and certainly not enough to tempt you away from the myriad, more hardcore offerings this Christmas. Buy it for Little Johnny's stocking. As long as you don't mind Ice-T shouting, "You're nothing but a punk, yo daddy's a punk, and yo momma's a b***h" every time he Shaolin's his head in.

Order yours now from Simply Games.

6 / 10

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About Patrick Garratt

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Comments (104) Latest comment 6 years ago

Comments threads automatically close after 30 days, but please feel free to continue chatting on the forum!

  • ssuellid #1 7 years ago

    I wondered who they were going to get to review the shit when Mouse left ;)

    What is the age rating?

  • Blerk #2 7 years ago

    They've invented a new rating: 16-

    If you're over 16 you're not allowed to play it.

  • Blerk #3 7 years ago

    Genre
    Fighting/Barbie

    lol!

  • krudster #4 7 years ago

    We've effectively got six reviewers now: Me, Tom, Pat, Rob, Ronan and Kieron. Enjoy a feast of reviews all the way up to Christmas...

  • Blerk #5 7 years ago

    With Pat getting all the 'Mouse' games? Alas, poor Pat. ;-)

  • CyberClaw #6 7 years ago

    Amazingly, reviewers (and "older" gamers) nowadays are able to level to games like WindWaker or Mario 64 (with a kiddy story and setting - which is fine and cool mind you, I'm talking about favs of mine), with the ability to get in the mind frame to say the games are cute, amazing, and childishly entertaining for the whole family, but they aren't able to get in the teens mind frame. Well, we are all kids, whatever right? ;) (I just find weird so much criticism about ear piercings, or new caps... what? Aren't men allowed to care for their presentation?)

    I think the whole point of games, is not just become what we want (do we really want to be criminals like in GTA??), but experience different things, we might not find morally right in real life, or fun/entertaining/interesting at all (Pikmin??). Becoming a gangster on GTA, or an HipHop artist in Def Jam... It doesn't mean it is made for people who WANT to be HipHoppers - same way GTA isn't made for vandals (or is it?), but for people whose mind is able to enter twisted universes, and enjoy their own view of their microworld. You do know that when you were 14 and playing D&Ds, your parents thought you were weird... it's all about fantasy (not the lirical fantasy, but fantasy in general), open your minds.

    (this silly comment was brought to you by a 21 yo dude, with long hair, black clothes and pierced ears - sheesh, we youngsters)

  • Dizzy #7 7 years ago

    >HipHop artist

    "Artist".... best use of sarcasm evar!

  • patlike #8 7 years ago

    It's not that bad, ssuellid. It's just not for you lot :)

  • Blerk #9 7 years ago

    reviewers (and "older" gamers) nowadays are able to level to games like WindWaker or Mario 64 (with a kiddy story and setting - which is fine and cool mind you, I'm talking about favs of mine)

    I wouldn't consider either of those 'kiddie' games. But I would consider this a 'kiddie' game, because as far as I can tell it could only possibly appeal to kids. The other two games can be enjoyed regardless of your age.

  • ssuellid #10 7 years ago

    I've noticed the reviews are getting closer or on the release date, which can only be good. Also there seems to more of a range of games reviews.

  • marilena #11 7 years ago

    I'm dissapointed in Henry Rollins. What's he doing with that crowd?*


    * it's worth mantioning I know nothing about Henry Rollins, but I sort of like his band and he's funny on the Discovery channel.

  • CyberClaw #12 7 years ago

    Blerk, why can't it be enjoyed by older croud? That's silly. No reason whatsoever, other than the setting according to the review, which to me just sounds like bias.

    Dizzy, I didn't use the term artist as a joke or freely. Although I do not appreciate hiphop, I respect every form of art, because over the years I saw a real strugle for many art forms I like being dissed and disrespected by the rest of the industry. I'm talking stuff like videogames ("videogames? are you a boy now?";).

    You know what you really remind me? I'll tell a slightly racist joke, just to make my point.
    One day an african family learned of a river that would turn the caucasian were they able to cross it. Mother, father and son decided to cross the river. Father crossed the river, and turned caucasian. Son crossed the river with some strugle and turned caucasian. Mother tryed to cross the river but it was too strong, and she started drowning.
    "Daddy, go help mother" - to which the father replies "Oh, don't mind her, she's black"

    Now, don't get me wrong, I know many people are closed minded, and automatically prejudiced against whatever they aren't inside of (something I've fought against for many many years, despite my young age), but I saw gamers who surfed the net as a small elite group, which understood things differently. Which see past the media stupidity - but afterall, you are just like that, in games. In whatever other subjects, you are still like any other prejudice ridden human.

  • marilena #13 7 years ago

    You're going a bit over the top CyberClaw. The problem with Def Jam and a lot of other things these days is that it's a part of a vicious circle. It's being done by people who don't understand teenagers but try to please them, so it's utterly ridiculous and to make things worse, many teenagers imitate it and transform into caricatures of their own selves.

    So, while rap may be an art form, the rap culture you can experience in Def Jam, teenage magazines and TV shows is 100% fake and aimed at idiots.

  • Feanor #14 7 years ago

    I think I agree with you, CyberClaw. This game doesn't interest me, but I do find it amusing that some people can be so dismissive of it. For instance what Blerk says below is so obviously flawed it's hard to believe he actually said it.

    "reviewers (and "older" gamers) nowadays are able to level to games like WindWaker or Mario 64 (with a kiddy story and setting - which is fine and cool mind you, I'm talking about favs of mine)

    'I wouldn't consider either of those 'kiddie' games. But I would consider this a 'kiddie' game, because as far as I can tell it could only possibly appeal to kids. The other two games can be enjoyed regardless of your age.'"
    Edited by 1 at 27/09/04 @ 18:11

  • CyberClaw #15 7 years ago

    marilena, stop thinking on target public. That's silly. Maybe that was the purpose, but that's not what the final piece represents. Does one need to understand a kid to make a kiddy game? Does one to understand about gardening to make a game like Pikmin? It's not really that that matters. It might be a caricature of hiphop, but it's simply another twisted universe. Doesn't matter if the hiphop is accurate or not, if it's the vision of hiphop by the eyes of a 40 year old dev, or a 14 year old kid. That's the fun about it. To get inside different twisted views of a mundane subject.

    We are grown looking up to policemen as heros in real life. That's why it's so interesting movies, stories and games where the other half is exposed. GTA is a twisted and unrealist look at crime, but it's fun.

    I know of a 30 something year old group of american people who likes it (my friends). Not just that mind you, but many other games, of different kinds (and no, they don't like hiphop, it's a small goth metal group).

    Oh but that's humanity I guess. They find WindWaker kiddy and silly. WTF, I give up.

  • mingster #16 7 years ago

    I'm 34 and i like Hip Hop, Reggae and RnB. Sean Paul, Lil Kim and snoop dog, are all cool in my book.
    I'd actually buy this game for the soundtrack what tunes are in it? and how many?
    The game may be a bit naff i don't deny that, but a pumping soundtrack and realistic looking characters and moves would make this a perfect 'after pub' game in my house.
    Especially if the moves aren't too complicated so a load of drunkards (who aren't that good at computer games ie: my mates) can still manage to play it.

    //Ok seen soundtrack list 28 tunes: all quality if you like that kind of thing. Gonna rent it, i reckon it'll be quite amuzing.
    Edited by 1 at 27/09/04 @ 19:02

  • Syrette #17 7 years ago

    what i gather from this review is that the game is, on a basic level, way above average.

    yet the score must be so low because this reviewer dislikes the premise, theme and ability to create/dress up characters. certainly not the most impressive review i've seen on EG.

  • CyberClaw #18 7 years ago

    Yea, I was about to talk about that. This review doesn't even mention the gameplay of the game (it's a fighting game afterall) other than having a couple of styles and different grabs. No mention on the special grabs, that look AWSOME for example. For you thinking on how this game plays, it is similar to the very old N64 wrestling game. The system is just better now.

    Is Eurogamer getting old and insane? You know, like when the old vet starts ranting about in his days the grass was greener and farts smelled good.

  • volb #19 7 years ago

    It does get across the point that teenagers are good for nothing, which is nice and accurately follows <A HREF="http://www.penny-arcade.com/view.php3?date=2001-07-18&q uot;>the predictions</A>.
    Edited by 2 at 28/09/04 @ 00:12

  • HarryB #20 7 years ago

    graphics look nice enough although ill need to rent it to see if its worth buying just for my casual mates who would probably love seeing all their favourite KRUNK KREW in a game... sigh

  • lordofdeadside #21 7 years ago

    i think everyones reading waay too much into this. its just a wrestling game with rappers. some people will like it cos its westling, some people will like it because its got their favourite artists in it. i dont think its an age thing at all. In fact, I think its a little eliteist to poke fun at it, without considering that there will be quite a few non-tards who will buy and enjoy it.

  • 3william56 #22 7 years ago

    / considers reiterating the review = opinion thing
    / can't be bothered.

    Face it - with all the other quality fighting games out there, few people are going to buy this for the fighting alone, however good or bad. And a lot of people (like me) wouldn't touch it with a barge pole because of that oppressive chav Ali G wannabe focus - it's just too embarrassing that someone might think I take that gangsta shellsuit hardcase bit seriously. GTA was *funny*. Take away the humour and it could have been pretty lame. These boys take themselves waaaay too seriously.

    Nobody gave a damn if BMXXX had a good BMXing model in it - Pat's dead right to concentrate on the cynical demographic focus group mentality behind this.

  • Blerk #23 7 years ago

    For instance what Blerk says below is so obviously flawed it's hard to believe he actually said it.

    Whoa, back up there. What exactly was so wrong? You just repeated my statement without actually saying why you disagreed with it. :-)

    Maybe I was being a bit flippant, but I stand by what I said. Wind Waker might 'look' kiddie, but it has an detailed storyline and involved gameplay so I'd say it can be enjoyed by anyone.

    But this? Alright, I'm not interested in either wrestling or the music, but it sounds like the sort of thing a bunch of teenagers would think was a good idea for a game if they were talking about it in the playground over lunch. And that's all well and good - if it appeals, it appeals. I just can't quite grasp how it could possibly appeal to anyone who's a 'grown up'. i.e. someone who's progressed past the stage of asking "who'd win in a fight between X and Y" every five minutes.

  • Dizzy #24 7 years ago

    >This review is a total embarassment

    Nope... spot on. Luckily there are people with taste working at EG. We don't need recycled drivel like this game. 100% fake plastic and 100% shit. Some people might like this game but it is the duty of EG to protect them from their own bad taste! :)

    I would suggest you get out of gaming if you like this and go watch some monster trucks jumping on top of each other.

  • Clive_Dunn #25 7 years ago

    "So which rappers haven't I heard of?"

    John Paul Getty.

  • Eighthours #26 7 years ago

    The trouble is that some kids will take this game seriously, and actually aspire to look as ridiculous as the people in his game, and talk as stupidly as them too. Go down your local shopping centre, and you'll see this in action. "Da kidz" wearing loads of da jewellery and hunting in da packs, while actually speaking like those loonies.

    Snobby middle-class view of things? Do I look like I give a shit?! ;)

    Uh uh yo, what what, uh uh. *raises hand to the sky*

  • tiddles #27 7 years ago

    But surely guns don't kill people, rappers do?

    Nice review, by the way - pandering to the prejudices of the regulars is definitely the way forward.

    Someone told me this was actually a rather finely crafted and addictive beat-'em-up, but I just told them they were a child and went on my way.

  • Daryoon #28 7 years ago

    what i gather from this review is that the game is, on a basic level, way above average.

    yet the score must be so low because this reviewer dislikes the premise, theme and ability to create/dress up characters. certainly not the most impressive review i've seen on EG.

    Uh, but it got a 6. That's ABOVE AVERAGE.

  • CyberClaw #29 7 years ago

    Eighthours, that's SO stupid. When people saw GTA from the outside, they said people would see GTA, and aspire to be a gangster. We, gamers, revolted, because it was bullshit and we knew it.
    Now, you are saying the same thing, because you don't like a gamer for whatever reason... I find it actually pretty funny. The same way I find normal wrestling plots funny (even if they take themselves seriously, and use fake blood and all those bullocks).

    I think this is simply a biased, uninformative review. Sorry. Why on the fuck, doesn't the review MENTION the gameplay? Isn't it important in games anymore? The only thing I could gather on this review, gameplay-wise, is you can punch, kick and grab. Congratio-fucking-lations. You just described a fighting game... I mean he doesn't even say if he liked how the game plays. Fucking crist, here is my review of street fighter alpha 3:
    you can punch, kick, and do a couple of grabs. But the sprites are low res... my god!!!

    Yea, SFA3 has specials, but that isn't important to the review, because Akuma is silly. (I'm joking because DefJAm also has specials - and amazing specials at that, way way better than Smackdown's Smackdowns - yet, they do mention the "Smackdowns" in the Smackdown review... why? Because it's part of the gameplay. It's important in a review...)

  • Big-Swiss #30 7 years ago

    So is it the question if you like Hip Hop or not, which will answer the opinion about Def Jam?
    Which would mean, it doesen't matter how old you are, just what style you like.......
    I mean if this game should be shit (I normaly trust on EG with the critical reviews about games) then shouldn't Soul Calibour and Tekken and and and also be shit because it is exactly the same thing just not in Hip Hop style?????

    please advice, I'm interested in your opinions

  • Eighthours #31 7 years ago

    Eighthours, that's SO stupid. When people saw GTA from the outside, they said people would see GTA, and aspire to be a gangster. We, gamers, revolted, because it was bullshit and we knew it.
    Now, you are saying the same thing, because you don't like a gamer for whatever reason... I find it actually pretty funny. The same way I find normal wrestling plots funny (even if they take themselves seriously, and use fake blood and all those bullocks).


    Correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't see any people imitating GTA. I do, however, see plenty of kids aspiring to the hip-hop "ideals", wearing ridiculous amounts of jewellery, speaking in "dat way", and acting like twats.

    I didn't make my rant clear, so I apologise. I wasn't meaning to say that the game itself will "influence" people. What I am weary of is the whole culture of mainstream hip-hop taking over "da high street", of which this game is just the latest example. It's stupid and moronic. Unlike decent underground hip-hop, by the way, before I get accused of prejudice against urban music.

  • Big-Swiss #32 7 years ago

    more and more I see

    this game could be perefct and it wouldn't be appreaciated, I'm not even playing or buying it, it is just very funny, that thsi whole arguments have nothing to do with the game itself, it is a pro/contra discusion about Hip Hop, and perhaps here in Europe we have a lot of wanabees, who think they are Mr. Cool, da gansta, but in the end there are also people who don't know anythign else and who really life that "stupid" street life.

    In the end a game is nothing but a roleplay as usual, and simular to every game, either you are interested in that roleplay or not, but having a discusion about influencing the children refering to one game (Def Jam) is nothing but ridiculous, taking a look at all the games that are out there!

  • CyberClaw #33 7 years ago

    Sorry 8hours, but you are lame, and simply can't accept other cultures. 500 years ago, it was slavery, because we couldn't accept people with a darker skin tone as our equals. Nowadays, it's different tastes.
    Godforbid if someone doesn't act, dress or uses his hair like your book says so. Because then, it's stupid. I dress all black. I use spikes, and chains. I have long hair and 4 ear piercings. I'm different. Is that so bad? What is the big deal about it? Why call stupid something different? I'm not saying you called Goths stupid, I said you called hiphopper stupid, just because they are different and don't understand... Prejudice is very ugly my friend. I sugest you open yourself to other cultures, and try not be so judgemental about something you simply disagree with.

    Now, I still haven't heard a good argument about the review itself. Other than people putting down the hiphop culture - but the game review itself, nothing. My friend, that's like reviewing samurai shodown, and saying that it's a stupid fighting game with swords, because it has samurais in it, and you find samurais stupid, ugly, or you think they have a bad sense of fashion...
    Edited by 1 at 28/09/04 @ 15:10

  • Clive_Dunn #34 7 years ago

    I think people have significant issues with rap culture because of its blatent sexism and homophobia. Not that sexism and homophobia doesn't exist in all walks of life, it just tends to be slightly more obvious and blatent. Although not all of course, Public Enemy and Disposable Heroes rocked.

    Now shut up hoes !

  • CyberClaw #35 7 years ago

    Clive Dunn, it's a different culture I guess. That doesn't mean every hiphopper is homophobic or sexist. They also talk about violence, and being big badasses, killing cops, and whatnot. It doesn't mean they are like that, to some it's more like a representation - something with countroversy to talk about in their tunes. Rockstar ain't filled with vandals just because they made GTA - it's just something they created, some might find funny, others might find offensive, because let's face it, you are an outlaw killing cops. Just expressions, and representations that get into certain cultures.

    Let me give a more close to home example. I love religious simbols. And I specially like simbols with some countroversy behind it. An inverted crussifix, or an inverted pentagram, both are simbol of satanism, and black magic arts. I'm an atheist. I dno't believe in any of that crap. That means I don't believe in magic, supernatural, or any religion. Yet, I find amuzing wearing religious simbols, for the same reason I'd find amusing wearing an Halo tshirt. I find the stories, rituals, and whatnot, amuzing. I've been seen a couple of times with crosses, celtic crosses, anks and pentagrams (not inverted, I didn't find any of those yet), and that doesn't mean I believe in them.
    Yet, people who see me on the street will possibly correlate me to a satanist. And if I try to explain them I don't believe in God, nor Satan, they'll call me a Pagan then.

    If you ask me, there are many more offensive cultures out there. I can think of a religion, heavily related to torture and murder, that preaches about love, no material possessions and helping the poor, while at the same time, controls the richest place in the world (the Vatican), with it's headmasters wearing golden robes, and sitting their royal asses in gold trones... While at the same time, many of their shepards are accused of such things as pedophilia. The funniest, is that the vatican simply tries to ignore that priests all over the world, possibly sexually fustrated, are accused of such things.

    Are certain hiphop lyrics too offensive to certain minorities? I guess. Does that give a global representation of the hiphop scene? Hardly. It's just what transpires, because it's the most offensive. Same way outsiders to gaming, only know GTA as a videogame, because it's the most offensive, and it's the only thing that transpires to the "outside gaming circles". It doesn't mean there are only GTAs out there. It means media rapped their audience minds, with their pre-consieved ideas, prejudice, and most of all, drive to get audiences through scandle, not by honest reports.

  • patlike #36 7 years ago

    DeathKitty - If you don't like Eurogamer, go away. And please don't call me a "narrow minded idiot" again, because that's highly offensive. The review is self explanatory. If you want to buy a well presented game that allows you to live a fantasy of being a hip hop fighter, buy it.
    Edited by 1 at 28/09/04 @ 15:37

  • Eighthours #37 7 years ago

    Sorry 8hours, but you are lame, and simply can't accept other cultures. 500 years ago, it was slavery, because we couldn't accept people with a darker skin tone as our equals. Nowadays, it's different tastes.
    Godforbid if someone doesn't act, dress or uses his hair like your book says so. Because then, it's stupid. I dress all black. I use spikes, and chains. I have long hair and 4 ear piercings. I'm different. Is that so bad? What is the big deal about it? Why call stupid something different? I'm not saying you called Goths stupid, I said you called hiphopper stupid, just because they are different and don't understand... Prejudice is very ugly my friend. I sugest you open yourself to other cultures, and try not be so judgemental about something you simply disagree with.

    You're misunderstanding me completely. Dress how you want, listen to whatever music you want.

    My problem with mainstream hip-hop culture is that it's moronic. It encourages people to treat women badly, be homophobic, act like a twat, disregard education, never get a job, carry firearms and generally act like a member of "da hood".

    Correct me if I'm wrong, but dressing all in black and having piercings as you do, doesn't spread a message that you want to do any of the above. Mainstream hip-hop culture does. Goths are a friendly, sociable bunch of people. People who aspire to bling culture are precisely the opposite.

    Go down to your local town centre, and see which group of kids are acting like dicks. I guarantee it'll be the hip-hoppers. Generalisation? No, it's just the way things are. The Goths will be holding the doors open for old ladies, while the hip-hoppers will be trying to steal their purses.

    And by the way, I'm not a Goth.

    In summary, since when did it become a crime to frown upon a culture that uses thuggery and nastiness as a selling point?

    I'll reiterate what I said before: hip-hop itself isn't like this. It's the bastardisation of the form in mainstream hip-hop that has sullied the music's good name.

    To summarise how I feel about this: Disliking Goths is prejudicial because you're judging them by the way they LOOK.

    Disliking hip-hoppers is ok because you're judging them by the way they ACT.

  • mingster #38 7 years ago

    ahh man... Samurai Shodown ... I loved that game.
    So the big question is as a fighting game is Def Jam better or worse (excluding subject matter) but basing it on the games moves and fighting styles and specials... well as we all know we can't tell as the review doesn't really mention about any of those things.
    I too agree with others that this review and the warhammer 40k review are not the type of thing i expect from Eurogamer. All fluff and no substance does not a good review make.

  • patlike #39 7 years ago

    And you, noway, are an unmitigated genius.

  • CyberClaw #40 7 years ago

    8hours, hiphop is what's in right now. Vandals dress the outlaw in of the year. So, yea, I guess most vandals will dress like hiphopers, same way 20 years ago they dressed as punks or metals. That doesn't mean punks metals or hiphoppers are all like that. It means it's a fad, and everyone, dresses like that now.
    The biggest selling hiphop group in Portugal's last hit song, is about treating a woman like a queen. And that's the whole point. There will always be bad people. Not just hiphoppers, but from every social circles, there are good and bad people.
    You are asking me how guys who go arround robbing people dress this day and age? You are right, they probably wear what I'd consider hiphop style of clothes. But that's just because HipHop is what's in right now. If they were born 20 years ago, they'd be punks, and 40 years ago, they'd be James Dean wanna-bes. The reason for this, is because of the same reason they rob, and I don't want to get into those psicological discussions (although I'd be glad to, in the right place like the forum). But the point is that just because everyone dresses like a hiphopper right now, doesn't mean everyone IS an hiphopper.
    Daweasel, Portugal's biggest hiphop group, talks about hard times, in bad neighbours, and not once I've heard them being homophobic or sexist. So, like I said, there are groups for everything. The same way I guess there are satanist goths... doesn't mean every goth is a satanist ;)

  • Clive_Dunn #41 7 years ago

    Well I think you'll find 75% of my very small post was actually trying to avoid stereotyping......

    I think your attitude to religious imagery is childish, granted an inverted cross may mean nothing to you, but it means a lot to others and can be interpreted as a huge insult. I'm sure you could argue that the Swaztika was stolen from mythology and abused by the Nazi's and the imagery has nothing really to do with racial hatred, but I wouldn't been seen dead wearing one on a t-shirt. Sympathy and understanding for other peoples sensitivities are paramount when dealing with such symbols.

    Getting back to the game, I think this is just a cynical marketing exploit from EA. Basically fighting game + hip hop stars + licensed music = game. Brilliant, its everything that I hate about EA. They do some great stuff, sprinkled with some low brow bollocks. And this is the lowest.

  • Big-Swiss #42 7 years ago

    I see, this is getting personal,
    its funny, noone answers my questions, either everybody has me on ignore, or then my opinions are way to neutral and fair for anyone in here to read, because we all rather curs on and ofend people, then just simply talk about a game. What the heck should make this game any wors then a other one? I mean not even Manhunt was reviewed like this! Nobody talkes smack about Tekken.
    As I said, its all just a roleplay, you don't play GTA, walk out of your house and talk in Mafiaenglish to your neighbour smack befor you shoot him. And the same here, you dont play Def Jam and then walk out of your house beating your neighbour to deaf by using some weird combo technics. Either you are a arswhole or not, but a game does not change shit.

    I could of wrote this review in this quality without even playing a second of the game, which I haven't

  • CyberClaw #43 7 years ago

    Clive Dunn, I know a inverted cross is looked down by religious people (I never used a inverted cross - although I find them cool). But, the same way I distance myself from the significance of the crussifix, I also distance myself from a inverted one. To me, they are both cool, and both with equal cool meanings, although one is a bad meaning. It's just mythos for me. Like I said, I don't believe in Satan nor God, why should I like a regular crussifix more?
    Now, the day I find a inverted crussifix, I'll use it. It's not like Satanist ever did any wrong to the regular chruch. All I've read in both bibles, is that one preaches for love with strict rules, the other preaches for lack of religious rules and social freedom (it does not preach for illegal things, but doesn't see any wrong in something like an orgy for example). I don't really think a Cristan can bitch about a inverted cross for the simple reason that the Satanist church never did any harm to no one. Yet, the cristain church sponsored some questionable actions in the 15th century... Quite in fact, I think there are many reasons to find a regular crussifix offensive.

    The swastica used by Nazis is a more serious business. Many minortities suffered at their hands, and the simbol of thor's hammer isn't worshiped by any culture, so I think out of respect for the suffering caused by the nazis, one should not wear a swastica (unless of course, it has some inteligent meaning, like for example, I would understand a swastica in MasterChiefs armor, because they called the armor after Thor's hammer, Mjorlin - yet, I think a developer should try to stay away from such controversy, because most people don't know of the origins of the swastica). A inverted swastica however, is a buddist simbol for heart.

    Erm sorry for the offtopic. Back on track if you like Wrestling fighting games, where you can costumise your apearence, with a over the top presentation, this is your game. If you irrationally loathe hiphop stay away. (just trying to stay relevant to the coment topic :S)

  • CyberClaw #44 7 years ago

    Big Swiss, like I said in my 20 other comments, I agree, this is a game, with a twisted universe like any other. The lack of the reviewer aptitude to roleplay the part, made the review uneven and very biased. There is no difference in roleplay a gangster, a young hero, or a hiphopper. There is no need for us to aspire to such parts, to roleplay as them. That's what games are about. I guess that's why no one specifically replyed to you, because people were already either agreeing or disagreeing with that point of view.

  • Eighthours #45 7 years ago

    You see, I'm looking forward to GTA San Andreas, partly because I just know Rockstar are going to take the piss out of hip-hop culture completely.

    But many of "da kidz" won't realise it.... not that they should be able to buy the game anyway!

  • Big-Swiss #46 7 years ago

    8hours

    you wrote: correct me if I'm wrong

    I don't say your wrong, but consider this, you are right, nobody goes around acting like GTA, and imitating the stuff that you can play there, well no crime has ben linked to GTA YET
    but Def Jam is not even released yet, so the game is acctually imitating the poor people in the slums, not the other way around.

  • mingster #47 7 years ago

    Big Swiss : not ignoring you i totally agree.

    Eight hours: I'm not sure Rockstar are going to be 'taking the piss' out of hip hop culture. But more like building a game around the whole concept of Hip hop culture. Using its styles and fashions from the early eighties.

  • Big-Swiss #48 7 years ago

    first CyberClaw I agree with your point of live and let live. But serious, if this is all already a done deal, then why are you still posting and having discussions with 8hours? Because the point that you and I was making is obviously not understood yet, because if it was, this whole review would be deleted and created new.

  • Big-Swiss #49 7 years ago

    cheers Mingster

    seems like the hate is disapearing and the reality of what games are and will be is finally coming back!

  • CyberClaw #50 7 years ago

    Yea, the reason I Didn't refer to you was because I agreed with you. I referred to those whom I didn't agree with :)

  • Big-Swiss #51 7 years ago

    AND THE MOST INTERESTING POINT IS: HOW CAN A CRITICAL REVIEW LIkE THIS GIVE A 6 OUT OF 10?????????
    now this is absolutly not logical, first you rip a game apart, but then you rate it so good that everyone should buy it?
    to much inbalanced braindamage for my logic

  • Eighthours #52 7 years ago

    8hours

    you wrote: correct me if I'm wrong

    I don't say your wrong, but consider this, you are right, nobody goes around acting like GTA, and imitating the stuff that you can play there, well no crime has ben linked to GTA YET
    but Def Jam is not even released yet, so the game is acctually imitating the poor people in the slums, not the other way around.

    Hmmm.... interesting. Yep! My argument was never that the Def Jam game is going to influence people, just a world-weary lament on why this game is glamourising the moronic side of hip-hop. If I play it, I'll be laughing my head off at the hilarity of it all, but my fear is that people who aspire to be like these mainstream hip-hop stars will actually think it's serious.

  • Big-Swiss #53 7 years ago

    now this is a very interesting post of Ken master, first he gets pisst of because people critisize Hip Hop, then he does it himself..!?!

    get a dam opinion and don't just write what is popular to hear!

  • CyberClaw #54 7 years ago

    big swiss he was quoting the review, and showing how the review was narrow minded :S

  • tiddles #55 7 years ago

    If you want to find out what you might be missing out on, an alternative review from those "kidz" over at 1UP:

    Link

  • Feanor #56 7 years ago

    "Whoa, back up there. What exactly was so wrong? You just repeated my statement without actually saying why you disagreed with it. :-) "

    What I meant was that when you said only kids could enjoy Def Jam, you sounded exactly like the silly people who say crap like only kids will play Celda on the GameCube. I know you would laugh at someone who, for example, said no one over 15 would enjoy a Mario game. It's a huge over-generalization, exactly like when you said: "But I would consider this a 'kiddie' game, because as far as I can tell it could only possibly appeal to kids."

    Hope that makes more sense that my first post. :)

  • 3william56 #57 7 years ago

    Mingster - sorry mate, but if you don't reckon GTA:SA will be pulling the p*ss you really haven't been paying attention. I'd hardly call VC a respectful homage to 80s culture and music... It parodies *everything* about the decade, from the clothes, music, hair, drugs, politics and attitudes, as well as the racial stereotypes of Miami Vice and gangster movies of the time. It's why old farts like me who were teenagers way back then love it so much.

    You don't reckon that the hip hop set (and rednecks, and Californians, and Hollywood, and the cops, and anyone else Rockstar can think up) is in for a major ribbing? Heck no. Personally, I can't wait. Like Ali G, it's an antidote to the incessant, rather sad, self important ego pumping by bad gangsta rap, bad movies, bad TV and sad games like Def Jam that has ruined [IMHO] hip hop and set a generation of wannabes on the dark path to embarrasing fashion and behavioural purgatory.

  • CyberClaw #58 7 years ago

    No they haven't played the game because this is a fighting/barbie game.
    And we all know that no one likes to costumise their character. I mean, I know I've only spent HOURS on th CAW (Create a Wrestler) mode in Smackdown...
    This game rocks - from end to end :)

  • Syrette #59 7 years ago

    daryoon, note my use of the term 'way above...', in your quote used in your reply to my post - ok, so i could have used a better word than 'way', but thats not the point.
    my point is that the reviewer says little on how good the actual game is, and seems to suggest (in what he does say about the actual game) that the game itself is more impressive than the score suggests. which tells me the game has been marked down just because he doesn't like the theme/premise and the way in which EA have produced a game focused on a very specific target audience. no offence to the reviewer, but i'm more interested in the game when i read a review not why the reviewer dislikes the theme.
    Edited by 2 at 29/09/04 @ 12:45

  • CyberClaw #60 7 years ago

    I recently made a topic on the forums about the recent reviews on Eurogamer. Quite alot of people are starting to skip the first paragraph, where the reviewers usually goes on to explain why his pinky hurts this morning, trying to correlate on how the game made it feel better or worse in the last phrase.
    Is this the next step? Getting so close and personal with the game, and so full of themselves as important gaming journalists, that instead of trying to review a game without any bias, they simply say what they think it's wrong in the world, and how the game relates to it.

    "Yea know, Hiphop sucks, because let's face it, I'm on my fourties, and this LOUD kids next door keeping passing that shit. DAMN KIDS TURN THAT SHIT DOWN. Anyway, EA made this game, that makes you dress up as a hiphopper, and I tell you, HipHop sucks because this LOUD kids next door..."

    Is EuroGamer becoming the rambling old veteran no one wants to listen to anymore?

  • patlike #61 7 years ago

    Cait,

    Firstly, I’d like to thank you for expressing such concern over Eurogamer’s review of Def Jam: Fight for New York. It’s important you know that we greatly value our readership and respect the fact that you’re so insistent on quality editorial.

    But the points you make are simply unrealistic and, in some cases, wrong. I’ll take them one at a time, and hopefully you’ll realise that it was never my intention to provide a “shoddy” review, that the review will not be removed for precisely that reason, and that the score and the information contained within the piece still stands.

    Regarding what you perceive to be reviewers’ “duties” to Eurogamer’s readership:

    1) All games must be played through to completion before being score. Cait, we’re now in a period of the year when literally hundreds of games are coming to market. Eurogamer’s editorial team consists of two people, Kristan and Tom, who are quite literally the two most driven consumer games journalists I have ever met. But there are still only two of them. Occasionally I help out, occasionally we give some games out to freelancers. Before Christmas, we have a review schedule that, if you were privy to it, would make you realise that being able to play all games through to completion is not possible. Obviously, games that are more applicable to the Eurogamer audience, such as Doom III, Half-Life 2, Outrun 2, etc, will be completed, as will many, many others. Others will not. We simply cannot spend dozens of hours completing games which are not especially applicable to you, the reader, when we can use our judgement as professional editorial staff to score them with five hours of play, as opposed to 20.

    2) That the review must tell the reader something about the game. I’m not entirely sure why you think the review didn’t tell you anything about the game. I told you the game’s premise, the reason for its inception, its background setting, its game mechanic, its target demographic, details of its fighting system, character customisation, the fact that the game is very much a mass market product, what I consider to be problems with it, who would like to play it in my opinion and, lastly, a score that, taken in the context of the review, should easily inform you whether or not you should be buying Def Jam: Fight for New York. I honestly do not understand your point in this regard.

    Now, as to what you consider should be done in regard to the fact that you believe I have not performed my duties as a reviewer for this game.

    1) To apologise to the Eurogamer readership for failing to play the game through to completion and failing to convey “something” about the game. Hopefully in the points I answer above, you can see that I will, in fact, do nothing of the sort. I have nothing to apologise for.

    2) To remove the review and assign the game to someone who will perform your duties. The review stands for the reasons I outline above. The game will not be re-reviewed.

    3) ‘Reprimand Patrick Garratt for his shoddy work in completing this "review".’ Again, Cait, as the review stands there will be no need for anyone to be reprimanded. As for my “shoddy work”, well, you’re entitled to your opinion and I’m very sorry you feel so hugely let down by the piece, but I stand by my work. Reviewing games is part of my job, and I take it seriously. I’m not really sure what else to say on this matter.

    Look, I hope that this post puts this issue to rest. When reviewing anything – be it a book, film, game or album – it’s the author’s job to offer his or her opinion. I’ve given you my opinion on this game in my review. I don’t want there to be any more friction on this matter, and I sincerely hope you understand that in producing this review I was merely doing my job.

    At Eurogamer, we go to extraordinary lengths using hugely limited resources to provide you with what we believe to be one of the best free games editorial services anywhere on the internet. We pride ourselves in it. I’m happy to sit here at 10pm answering your open letter because we believe you deserve answers to your questions because you care, and we’ll always try to give you our time. I hope I’ve addressed your concerns.

    And, by the way, I love hip hop. I’ve listened to hip hop since I was about 14. I prefer guitars, to be fair, but I still listen to hip hop all the time. I also listen to house, D&B and pop in general, but I’ll listen to anything that I like. I love music. I listen to music all day, every day. But I’m still entitled to think that the whole hip hop “thing” is odd. Aren’t I?

    If any of you wish to speak to me directly on the matter, please feel free to contact me directly at atrick@eurogamer.net">Patrick@eurogamer.net.

    Best,

    Pat

  • monkeyspasm #62 7 years ago

    I actually think it's a good review. It's not like he slates the game, let's get some perspective here - 6/10 is not a bad score.

    And the premise of mainstream rap stars fighting each other IS slightly ridiculous in my opinion and indeed smacks of EA trying to be 'down wit da kids'.

    It's just a game. No need to get so heated.

  • Sniffer #63 7 years ago

    ABI TITMUS, YOU BASTARD.

  • Cait #64 7 years ago

    Patrick, I appreciate your effort in addressing my concerns, but you seem to be either in a state of denial about the quality of your review, or being deliberately obtuse in your response.

    First of all, I understand that you have limited resources at Eurogamer. However, your position (and I can only assume the position of the site in general) is that it's better to have a shoddy, uninformed review of each game available on the site, rather than setting and maintaining a minimum standard for the site as a whole. Therefore, based on the demands of the busy Christmas release schedule, you and the fine folks at EG will spend a few minutes reviewing all games and providing your two cents. There will be a few isolated reviews where you play through games to completion, but this is the exception, not the rule. As a longtime reader, I find that misleading, insulting and I am particularly troubled by the fact that you make no mention of this in your review. Clearly EG cannot be relied upon to provide accurate, unbiased reviews based on a thorough critique of the game. So be it.

    I would offer the following advice, which I am sure you will ignore: If EG is unable to devote the time and effort required to complete a thorough review of a product, simply DON'T REVIEW IT. That way we can be sure that any review you do offer on the site is an informed piece, rather than a random one potentially based on ignorance.

    As for your assertion that your review does in fact convey information about the game, including "details of its fighting system" and "its game mechanic", this is where your denial is at its peak. Perhaps you are unfamiliar with fighting games and therefore can be forgiven for failing to mention whether the fighting system is balanced or not. You also neglect to mention whether there are counters, submissions, environmental interaction (a GLARING omission given the game's focus on this as a primary element of the fighting system), or any detail whatsoever on the fighting system. In fact your description of the fighting system amounts to two sentences inwhich you call it "above average" and mention in single words some of the basic actions you can perform in the game (punch, kick, grapple, weapons, etc.). That's it. As I said in my letter, there is more information in the game's press release. On behalf of fighting gamers everywhere may I congratulate you on achieving a new low in reviewing a fighting system.

    In any case, your response is exactly what I expected given your smarmy replies to other readers' posts. It also tells me exactly what I need to know about EG's credibility and consistency when it comes to reviewing games. I appreciate your candor in exposing the substandard review practices to which EG aspires.

  • CyberClaw #65 7 years ago

    patlike, we are all human. Making unbias reviews is impossible (although it still should be the objective).
    The specific problem of this review, is that despite the time you spent with the game, the review itself lacks any decent detaisl about the game itself. You give many opinions that you find the game stupid, childish, etc. Yet, you fail to explain us things about the game itself. One wondering how the game plays, has a one phrase description that described every wrestling game up to date. How do the specials work? Are they cool? Are there counters? How do the grabs work? Do the character bleed like in the latest Smackdown? Waht kind of weapons can we use? I could go on forever... this is the stuff that usually gets covered in a fighting game.
    There isn't nothing that bad about the opinions themselves. Those are yours, maybe some might find them a little less professional, but that's Eurogamer's way (more friendly) - yet, the review itself lacks any real meat information about the game. You don't let us decide if we like the game or not, you don't give informations about the gameplay - and opinions differ from person to person. So, we are left with a review, which isn't a review at all, but a opinion or rant. That's probably why people are so mad with the review.

  • ChocNut #66 7 years ago

    Ah Yes! Nothing like a bit of late night entertainment :D

  • TheRealBadabing #67 7 years ago

    Eurogamer has an audience. The reviewers know that audience and tailor their reviews accordingly. I doubt it is their intention to conform to every hype-ridden review that appears on gamerankings.

    Remember, this is Eurogamer.net, not OMFGWTFROXXORZ1337.com

  • CyberClaw #68 7 years ago

    TheRealBadabing, people sometimes do subpar work. They are humans and are allowed to screw up every now and then. Eurogamer simply doesn't like to admit it's mistakes.
    1Up is hardly a hype ridden website, and the difference onthe review is quite noticeable. Even if the review said the game sucked, I think it was still apropriate to mention how the game works. And that's where the review fails miserably.

  • TheRealBadabing #69 7 years ago

    CyberClaw, this review is the opinion of one reviewer. If you do not agree with it go to another site to have your personal views reinforced. Nobody here has done "subpar work", except for those that expect the reviewer to agree with what they believe.

    For such a shit concept I am suprised so many people are willing to mount a crusade to defend it.

    Maybe games are the new religion or something. In future years will we have slouching youths fighting thirty somethings for the right to proclaim their game the bestest evar?

  • Cait #70 7 years ago

    >The RealBadaBing said:
    >Nobody here has done "subpar work", except for those that expect
    >the reviewer to agree with what they believe.

    You're completely wrong about the quality of the review. It is "sub-par work" to fail to cover the most basic aspects of a game in the review. Imagine a review of GTA that failed to mention the ability to drive and steal cars. Would that be a credible review that you would consider up to par?
    Edited by 1 at 30/09/04 @ 01:09

  • TheRealBadabing #71 7 years ago

    Cait, it's a beat-em-up. The reviewer didn't rate it that highly. Is there any need to go into the mechanics of the game?

    Soul Calibur was a good beat-em-up, as was the sequel. Technically brilliant and it didn't require the childish reliance on the distasteful "culture" that this game flaunts. SC2 was given 10/10 if I remember correctly.

    EG has given a 9/10 to WWE games in the past (have a look at the archives) yet they are regarded as a bit of a joke by many "hardcore" gamers.

    I don't think that this game was marked down because of the amount of bling on display, rather that it simply isn't a very good beat-em-up.

  • Khab #72 7 years ago

    Let's all say it again: review=opinion

    Now, I've witnessed the hoohah about this review for a few hours in the forum, and finally decided I had better read the review. And, er, I fail to see what all the whinging is about? pat clearly didn't like the bling-bling, dress-up, yo yo bitches-part of the game. He seems to have hated it.

    HOWEVER. He reckons the combat is above average, and there are plenty of options and stuff to do. Regular EA lark. So it's a 6/10, because it does what it's supposed to, and has some icing.

    Now what is the problem here, really? That Pat didn't like the presentation in the game? Surely he's entitled to his opinion, and to express that opinion in HIS review?

  • Syrette #73 7 years ago

    'Eurogamer has an audience. The reviewers know that audience and tailor their reviews accordingly.'

    if that is really the case, which i doubt, than this site has lost a lot of it's credibility. the point of reviews are to inform the public of a professional game journalist's opinion on a certain game. if i'm wrong in saying that. please correct me.

    there is no point in tailoring reviews just to suit one or two regulars - theres just no sense in that. and if eurogamer wants to do better commercially than it would beyond stupid to continue with reviews such as this, which do a poor job in informing about the game itself, instead concentrating on pat's dislike of the current hip-hop scene.

    new members aren't going to come here for rants like this review, it doesn't help them in any way. and please don't make excuses for not playing this through thoroughly (or to a reviewable degree), if a 'review' hasn't been through a thorough play-through then please try to tell us that. for all we know you might have missed out on some of the best sections of the game because you failed to play the game through thoroughly, and not bought the game because of what you told us.

  • Cait #74 7 years ago

    Wow -- have you read either the Soul Calibur or Smackdown reviews? They contain approximately 12,000 times as much detail and cover all of the aspects behind the fighting system. In the Def Jam review, Patrick doesn't even mention that the environments are fully interactive. Now, anyone who has actually PLAYED THE GAME knows that the environmental attacks are at least 50% of the fighting, and one of the top reasons to own this game. They are not even MENTIONED in the review.

    That's shoddy, bullshit reviewing. Sorry if you disagree, but reviews should be opinions substantiated by fact and information. If I wanted a wanker's two bit opinion on a game I'd tune into a forum or better yet read the comments posted against a review here on EG. I expect more from an official review of a game.

    Patrick did a terrible job of reviewing the game, and he should admit that. End of story.

  • Syrette #75 7 years ago

    Cait, i admire, and agree with your honesty.

  • Khab #76 7 years ago

    That's shoddy, bullshit reviewing. Sorry if you disagree, but reviews should be opinions substantiated by fact and information. If I wanted a wanker's two bit opinion on a game I'd tune into a forum or better yet read the comments posted against a review here on EG. I expect more from an official review of a game.

    So now he's a wanker because he doesn't agree with you?

    Remember this.

  • Cait #77 7 years ago

    You really don't get it do you Khab? It's not whether or not he is entitled to his opinion -- he is. The fact remains that the review is one of two things:

    1) Paltry and uninformative (IE: lazy and bad)
    2) Based on ignorance and lack of play (IE: lacking credibility and integrity)

    My money is on the latter. Why is this important? Because when I read a review on Eurogamer, I expect that review to be based on a thorough play of the game in question. If, as is suggested in Patrick's post, Eurogamer feels it sufficient to play a game for a few minutes, then move on based on the demands of a tight schedule, then the integrity of the reviews suffer. This is particularly the case if the reviewer fails to qualify his review with a statement regarding the limited amount of play. As I stated earlier, if you don't have the time to do a proper review, then don't review the game at all. Period.

  • Khab #78 7 years ago

    You really don't get it do you Khab? It's not whether or not he is entitled to his opinion -- he is. The fact remains that the review is one of two things:

    1) Paltry and uninformative (IE: lazy and bad)

    Paltry and uninformative does not neccessarily mean lazy and bad, sorry. It might simply be because the game is of a well-established genre, but with a twist. Then it'd be the TWIST you'd want examined, wouldn't it? In this case, the "hip-hop" (the citation marks are due to this being EA's marketing dep's idea of hip-hop, before you call me a wanker or something worse.) setting of the game.


    2) Based on ignorance and lack of play (IE: lacking credibility and integrity)

    My money is on the latter.

    Ok, so you've stated. But Pat, krudster and raups have all assured you that this is not the case. Then maybe you should re-examine your opinion and ask yourself if maybe this argument is down to something else?


    Why is this important? Because when I read a review on Eurogamer, I expect that review to be based on a thorough play of the game in question. If, as is suggested in Patrick's post, Eurogamer feels it sufficient to play a game for a few minutes, then move on based on the demands of a tight schedule, then the integrity of the reviews suffer. This is particularly the case if the reviewer fails to qualify his review with a statement regarding the limited amount of play. As I stated earlier, if you don't have the time to do a proper review, then don't review the game at all. Period.

    Don't you see what you're doing here? You're telling me that the EG staff has "suggested" they only spent a few minutes with the game, when in reality Pat wrote Others will not. We simply cannot spend dozens of hours completing games which are not especially applicable to you, the reader, when we can use our judgement as professional editorial staff to score them with five hours of play, as opposed to 20.

    Quite a difference, no?

    A review is an opinion, not a tech sheet or a press release that is supposed to tell you all about how you play the game. It's an educated (due to having played the game) opinion as to whether the game is worth your 60-odd euros or not. Clearly this game is to a large degree about "being" a hip-hop fighter and "living" the whatever they live. If the reviewer didn't like that, and found the game beneath average, but nothing special, then shouldn't he be allowed to say so while poking fun at what he finds ridiculous and amusing with the marketing of the product?

  • PrioryofSion #79 7 years ago

    The game is actually quite excellent (for those with an open enough mind to give it a chance). I am not into hiphop, but as a fighting game it is excellent, and the single player experience is exemplary (esp for a fighting game).

    As for the review, I'll agree that it's terrible. It doesn't cover any of the strong points of the game and seems mostly concerned with putting people down for liking a certain brand of music. If I were the reviewer I'd be embarassed (although more likely he's laughing at all the controversy he seems to have caused). His attempt to justify his lame review is simply more lameness.

  • Khab #80 7 years ago

    If he really did play five hours and then reviewed the game without mentioning the incredible storymode, the huge number of characters available (70) or the revolutionary fighting system, then he needs a brain transplant or a new job.

    But maybe he didn't reckon the fighting system was "revolutionary"? If so, then why would it warrant mention? Maybe he thought fighting a beefed-up Snoop Dogg was ridiculous? If the reviewer found all the characters samey and boring, it doesn't matter if he informs his readers or not. His task is to inform his readers of his OPINION of the game, not of the game itself. That we can safely leave to press releases.

  • Khab #81 7 years ago

    They are potentially as good at conveying their opinion, but they surely are not as good at explaining why they have this opinion.

  • Pinchy #82 7 years ago

    Dry your eyes kids. the game is piss poor and has bugger all to do with real hip hop. if you like it, good for you, but the reviewer is correct - this is a game marketed squarley at burberry cap wearing morons who want to be down in da hood.

    i love hip hop but this kind of game does nothing but damage the genre(further).

  • CyberClaw #83 7 years ago

    Khab, you are missing the point entirely. He could have said the game was shit, that was his opinion. People wouldn't agree with it, but that's another matter. What people are against, is that in this review, he devotes 2 phrases, TWO FREAKING PHRASES, to generically describe any fighting game ever since the GENRE was invented. Reading those phrases, I could almost apply it from any game, from Street Fighter to Streets of Rage... What is the point of the review if they don't review the fighting IN A FIGHTING GAME? Now, if he likes or dislikes hiphop is another matter, but, the REAL POINT OF A BAD REVIEW is that it isn't informative about the game itself.

    Now you can bitch and moan all you want, but the point still stands. Other reviews to other similar games have plenty of more juicy info on playing the game itself. Here is a example of a good review, which despite the game being a squel of a over stretched and well established franchise covers all the grounds:
    (WWE Smackdown Here comes the Pain)
    http://www.eurogamer.net/article.php?article_id=53751
    Since you are so stuburn I'll take a step by step on what's missing on THIS review, and point out how it is presented in Eurogamer's Smackdown HCTP review:
    "superbly balanced beat-'em-up and somehow managed to incorporate 65 of the wrestling circuit's foremost personalities"
    This review is missing the number of fighters you can choose from. This is very important in a fighting game. Specially one that deals with celebreties.

    Onto gameplay:
    "The basic act of wrestling is far easier to pick up and yet far more varied and considered than ever before. Grappling is now a far more elegant and thoughtful process - when first locking arms with an opponent, the player has to hit circle and a direction to select a type of grapple (up for power, down for submission hold, left for signature move, right for quick attack), then quickly hit another similar combination, with the opportunity to mix your selection immediately throwing up 16 potential moves. It's all about timing, and the new reversal system means a skilled player can actually unhook themselves from an attack with careful application of L2 (for strikes) or R2 (for grapples)."

    One full paragraph describing graples. Now, I know you never played the game, but Def Jam's graple system is as evolved and robust as Smackdown's, and it diserves to be talked about.

    More:
    "All your prayers for an opportunity to "work the bread basket" and whatnot have also been answered, with limb-specific body damage critical to success. A little stick man next to your SmackDown meter now keeps you up to date on where you're taking (and doing) the most damage, allowing you to focus on particular areas of an opponent's body and lay sustained and strategic groundwork for submission moves throughout the bout. And although the submission system - a button-tapping exercise (on both sides, if it's a multiplayer bout) that has you trying to push either towards 'submission' (to win) or 'escape' (to break the hold) - might seem a little unfair on geriatric gamers, it comes up with the odds slanted one way or another depending on the state of the attacker and the victim. In other words, if you're clearly winning a bout, it'll be much easier to coax a submission out of a crumbling adversary, even if button-mashing is beyond your crippled digits.

    Add to that the traditional array of moves - we're told the game boasts every move every wrestler involved has ever performed - and AI which uses them in accordance with the real-life WWE wrestlers' behaviour, and there are oceans of depth to uncover here - a quick glance over a player's guide while we were still, ahem, wrestling with the controls revealed more button combinations than we've had to learn all year. For folks who want to be getting something new out of a fighter in six months' time, this is right up there with the genre heavyweights."

    This was regarding gameplay. Now Tom, dwelves into the character creation process and story mode.

    "With a legion of dedicated fans snapping at them over the tiniest flaws, Yuke's has also managed to give each wrestler the right weighting, literally - it's now impossible for a smaller wrestler from a lower weight band to lift and slam a larger one (although curiously this doesn't seem to apply to SmackDown finishing moves) - and in terms of their overall abilities, with personal ratings in five categories: strength, submission, stamina, technique and speed. It's certainly something to consider when picking a character.

    As you'd imagine, it's also possible to upgrade a character's abilities by earning experience points in the rather involving single-player Season mode. Although not a huge improvement on Shut Your Mouth's version (and you can't use the female wrestlers for a whole Season either, despite their, shall we say, expanded roles elsewhere), Season mode is still the biggest undertaking the game has to offer, giving you all the sweat, blood, elaborate introductions and gimmicky storylines (over 200, penned by the WWE's actual writers) of the countless TV shows and pay-per-view events, and even behind the scenes bonding that the cameras tend not to focus on."

    I could spend the whole day here, because every paragraph of Tom's Smackdown review is INFORMATIVE. He discusses the gameplay mechanics, the story, the character creation system in detail, talks about the game being balanced or not, etc. He talks about the various gameplay modes, compares it to other established fighting franchises, etc.

    Now obviously Smackdown's review is a way bigger review than this one, and I understand Tom was able to dedicate more time to it, still, it's no excuse that in the whole DefJam review we are never accuratly discribed the game. Quite actually, remove the hiphop rambling on this review (and this is a fighting system, already applyed to 2 wrestling games, sans hiphop), and no one could say what game they reviewer is reviewing.

    This isn't simply a discordance in the review score itself (like in Xbox's Halo's infamous 8/10), but simply a discordance on the lack of decent information on the whole review, not accuratly describing the game, and reviewing the gameplay itself, instead only reviewing the stereotype the games story is based on.

  • Khab #84 7 years ago

    Oh, heh you're still going on with this today?

    Well, I, er, *cough* was feeling a bit cheeky last tnight, which is why I seem more than stubborn - I was playing a bit of devil's advocate. :)

    Though I do reckon Cait is well beyond reasonable when she starts claiming Pat's (or, for that matter EG's) intergrity as a journo has been compromised. But yes, the review is uninformative and clearly doesn't respect the game's gimmick. I fail to see why it's such a huge hoo-hah about it tho.

  • CyberClaw #85 7 years ago

    Because the game plays really well :|
    Really, it's cool to play it, and if you can bear (or even like) the hiphop style, then this game is suberb, no matter the age. If you can get into the hiphop mentality, you'll get a few smiles out of the dialogue as well. "I'll rip your tongue and lick my ass with it."

  • Khab #86 7 years ago

    But Pat clearly (and he makes it abundantly clear) couldn't really bear the hip-hop style, and this was, obviously, in his eyes the major negative aspect of the game. He still reckons the fighting is "better than average" and gives it an above-average score. But the review is written by someone who didn't like the style, and he's not trying to hide that. If he had tried to hide it and marked it down heavily for it, then I'd see where you're coming from. But he didn't. So I don't. Ah well.

  • CyberClaw #87 7 years ago

    But he is a professional. Or is he not?
    Godamn, I've reviewed Football games (in portuguese magazines - which run amateur reviews). Do you know how much I loathe that sport? Do you know how much I hate the freaking thing? I dislike playing the game, because the sport is boring to my eyes. Yet, I did my best to be unbiased in the reviews. Never once I mentioned my loathe for the sport, all I did, was try to explain why FIFA was dying (lack of inovation despite EA Sports trying to press a new version on consumers every year), and why the PES offering of that year was clearly better.

    No I don't like football. Yet, that doesn't mean I can't do what I'm suposed to do. If it was Patlike in my skin, the review would have turned out like this:

    "This is a stupid sport. For those of you who don't know it, don't bother. Yet, if you must, it's a sport where 22 blokeswith tight shorts who run after a ball and away from a 23rd black clothed bloke - who's hairdresser usually thinks that this dude's head is a display, and himself as picasso. It's a sport where guys grabbing each other asses, crouches, or simply kissing is commonly accepted among people who everywhere else are over homophobic.
    The videogame has plenty of footballers you'r certainly recognise, and many more you won't.
    The gameplay is based on this ridiculous shitty rules. Yea, it plays above average I guess, when you press the button the guy kicks the ball or the nearest adversary. You can score goals, and make passes...
    But it really is a stupid sport. Don't even bother. I even heard there is this one guy, who..."

    The mockery could go on, but I got my point over. And if you still didn't get it, you are still playing the devils atourney - I mean advocate. :p

  • Khab #88 7 years ago

    No, that's the equivalent to Pat writing "Fighting and wrestling is stupid, and this game is about that, which makes the game stupid."

    He's saying he doesn't like the presentation, not neccessarily the game itself (6/10!).

  • Cait #89 7 years ago

    In future, please ensure that you don't call into question the reviewing practices of Eurogamer, or you will be accused by the Eurogamer staff of being a corporate PR shill for the company behind the game, as per this thread:

    http://www.eurogamer.net/forum_thread_ posts.php?thread_id=19017&forum_id=1

  • phAge #90 7 years ago

    Okay - so the review isnīt up to EG's (IMO) high standards, but I canīt help but think that Cait (and others) are taking this WAY too seriously, and that anyone who feels that the journalistic integrity of EG has been compromised as a result of this, should just - well... leave.

    I never buy games on the premise of just one review (hurrah for Gamerankings), as I am well aware that different reviewers have different tastes, and so my best bet is to hears as many opinions as possible.

    The point is that while the EG review doesnīt do very much to hide the fact that it is biased, I hold no illusions that any other review out there is any less opinionated.

    I like EG, but it is not my premiere choice when it comes to reviews (that honour goes to Avault) - however, I like the style of EG's pieces, and that is enough for me.

    Cool down, for FFS - itīs just a game.

  • phAge #91 7 years ago

    Please don't leave Kent - I need people like you to show me just why Eurogamer is my fave gaming-related site: it is liberatingly free of self-serving (luuuuved the way you managed to tell us all that you work for a charity), bandwagon-jumping gits, who take their hobby (playing computergames) WAY too seriously.

    On second thought - please do leave. You wonīt be missed - and Iīve got a feeling that the 2 or 3 people who - like you - refuse to understand the purpose and spirit of EG wonīt be either.

  • CyberClaw #92 7 years ago

    Just want to reassure my personal position.
    I don't think Eurogamer become a sucking site right now because of this review. I was quite used to a few funny quarrels with the EG staff (mainly about Halo's 8/10). This review though, IMO, doesn't qualify as a good one, and that's my opinion. I don't think this is the EG standart though so no big worries. My opinion about this review still stands. Although he doesn't like Hiphop, he could have described further the gameplay of the fighting side of it - it lacks enough detail to be more than a shody description (hardly a review :S).

    EDIT: I don't think EG sucks (rephrasing the 1st phrase which came out... weird) - it is a good alternative to the American gaming press behemoths.
    Edited by 1 at 30/09/04 @ 23:47

  • mingster #93 7 years ago

    right after checking gamerankings for an overall average score which is 83% btw i now have to add my 50cents worth.

    I prolly wouldn't have bought this game based off EG's review but as i like hip hop and it had 30 soundtrax i was semi interested.

    Now after reading 5 different reviews i actually DO think this game was marked down by the reviewer as he didn't like the whole Hip Hop idea..
    I don't think he gave it a 6/10 as the game was crap but that the subject matter dragged the score down which in my mind is a shame and the makings of a bad review.

    Normally EG is spot on for reviews but i think this review definately should be 1 or 2 points higher if the gameplay is up to scratch. (Like the other reiews i've read suggest it is.

    I'm gonna buy it, i'm sure this review is wrong i will enjoy it.

  • striker #94 7 years ago

    Godamn, I've reviewed Football games (in portuguese magazines - which run amateur reviews). Do you know how much I loathe that sport? Do you know how much I hate the freaking thing? I dislike playing the game, because the sport is boring to my eyes. Yet, I did my best to be unbiased in the reviews. Never once I mentioned my loathe for the sport, all I did, was try to explain why FIFA was dying (lack of inovation despite EA Sports trying to press a new version on consumers every year), and why the PES offering of that year was clearly better.

    Well, that's stupid, because you only said what you heard or what you were told to say. If you hate the sport, how can you understand it well enough to judge which of the two games is the better representation of it?

  • CyberClaw #95 7 years ago

    because although I hate the sport, I understand the rules, and I played and OWNED both games. Yes, I own football games, and I play them every now and then, because my friends love to play them with multitaps. Personally, I enjoyed Sega Soccer Slam for a while, with the over the top presentation, but eventually it gets boring in the long run.

    I'm sorry, but are you saying a person can't put his personal preferences asside to try to be unbias? I'm not saying SHIT that someone told me. This is Portugal. STUPID SHITFUCKS country, where everyone LOVES Fifa, and barely anyone heard of Konami's franchise. So, no I wasn't saying something I heard. I was stating a opinion, that goes against the grain here in Portugal.
    Here is a discussion I had with a FIFA fan:
    "You had the previews FIFA, why did you buy this new one, there are no inovations whatsoever"
    (And honest to god, this is the REAL awnser I got) "With this new FIFA, if you scratch the CD top, you can smell real artificial grass"

    I stood, dumbfolded. Anyway, that's besides the point, although I don't apreciate the sport, I find it mildly entertainment with enough players (the videogames that is), and I can tell if it's a good game or not - even if it doesn't fit my particular taste.

    Or maybe I'm special, since I make an efort to see things through different perspectives.

  • Big-Swiss #96 7 years ago

    wrong, I think Cait and most of us just let this go way above of what it is worth. let it be
    Edited by 1 at 01/10/04 @ 16:29

  • Khab #97 7 years ago

    #1. Actually Play the Game.

    He's said over and over again he did. :)

    #2. Read your reviews before publishing them.

    This, of course, I personally can't vouch for. Though I'm sure someone reads these before they stick 'em up.

    #3. Review games without predetermined biases.

    There's no way to do that. You CAN'T be completely objective, and I personally reckon it's a much better situation if the reviewer TELLS his readers he didn't like an aspect of the game, be it presentation or gameplay. Then we KNOW he didn't like it, and can reasonably assume it affected his scoring.

    So there.

    /leaves thread without looking back.

  • Retroid #98 7 years ago

    There are plenty of corporate monkeys who've raised hell in an 'inflamed of Nottingham' stylee, so it amuses / saddens me when that presumption is seen as a childish and unreasonable reaction.

    It's not, most of the time it's a fair guess; witness Driv3r and the amount of corporate "don't believe this review, it's excellent!" from Atari's pressbots.

  • striker #99 7 years ago

    Cyberclaw, I understand what you're saying, and I know about Portugal because I'm from there too ;)

    But surely the target audience of say Flight Simulator 2004 are the players that like those kind of games, I wouldn't feel confortable reviewing the game even though I understand perfectly the rules, how it is supposed to be played, etc.

    Or at least I'd state in the review that I was never fond of Flight simulators and that this would be the opinion of such a person for alike persons.

  • asphaltcowboy #100 7 years ago

    Sorry, but I have to agree... The review didn't describe how the game plays at all; something I feel is kind of important when talking about fighting games... all games in fact. I've read a couple of other reviews have said that, despite the theme (personally I'm not a big fan of hip hop) the actual game is an excellent fighter. Still, I'm quite undecided. One for rental methinks.
    Edited by 1 at 02/10/04 @ 15:37

  • Stevas mkII #101 7 years ago

    Now, come on chaps. Let's not let this hullabaloo get to us, what? How about a nice cup of tea?

  • IronGiant #102 7 years ago

    Nice to read a mature and cohesive argument from someone that doesn't have to resort to childish and immature name calling and abuse to get a point across.

    /sarcasm liberally applied

  • Big-Swiss #103 7 years ago

    just to click on:

    I desided to buy it over the weekend, and had some time getting into it. I'm very spoiled when it comes to games, if a game gets on my nervs, i have easly put it on the shelv after 2 hours gameplay. But DJFNY is really really good!!

  • Chtulie #104 6 years ago

    It was a huge succes at a party when the x-box was on and loaded with this game.

  • H4XXOR_USA #105 6 years ago

    yo