Def Jam: Fight For New York Review

I wondered who they were going to get to review the shit when Mouse left ;)

What is the age rating?

They've invented a new rating: 16-

If you're over 16 you're not allowed to play it.

Genre
Fighting/Barbie

lol!

We've effectively got six reviewers now: Me, Tom, Pat, Rob, Ronan and Kieron. Enjoy a feast of reviews all the way up to Christmas...

With Pat getting all the 'Mouse' games? Alas, poor Pat. ;-)

Amazingly, reviewers (and "older" gamers) nowadays are able to level to games like WindWaker or Mario 64 (with a kiddy story and setting - which is fine and cool mind you, I'm talking about favs of mine), with the ability to get in the mind frame to say the games are cute, amazing, and childishly entertaining for the whole family, but they aren't able to get in the teens mind frame. Well, we are all kids, whatever right? ;) (I just find weird so much criticism about ear piercings, or new caps... what? Aren't men allowed to care for their presentation?)

I think the whole point of games, is not just become what we want (do we really want to be criminals like in GTA??), but experience different things, we might not find morally right in real life, or fun/entertaining/interesting at all (Pikmin??). Becoming a gangster on GTA, or an HipHop artist in Def Jam... It doesn't mean it is made for people who WANT to be HipHoppers - same way GTA isn't made for vandals (or is it?), but for people whose mind is able to enter twisted universes, and enjoy their own view of their microworld. You do know that when you were 14 and playing D&Ds, your parents thought you were weird... it's all about fantasy (not the lirical fantasy, but fantasy in general), open your minds.

(this silly comment was brought to you by a 21 yo dude, with long hair, black clothes and pierced ears - sheesh, we youngsters)

>HipHop artist

"Artist".... best use of sarcasm evar!

It's not that bad, ssuellid. It's just not for you lot :)

reviewers (and "older" gamers) nowadays are able to level to games like WindWaker or Mario 64 (with a kiddy story and setting - which is fine and cool mind you, I'm talking about favs of mine)

I wouldn't consider either of those 'kiddie' games. But I would consider this a 'kiddie' game, because as far as I can tell it could only possibly appeal to kids. The other two games can be enjoyed regardless of your age.

I've noticed the reviews are getting closer or on the release date, which can only be good. Also there seems to more of a range of games reviews.

I'm dissapointed in Henry Rollins. What's he doing with that crowd?*


* it's worth mantioning I know nothing about Henry Rollins, but I sort of like his band and he's funny on the Discovery channel.

Blerk, why can't it be enjoyed by older croud? That's silly. No reason whatsoever, other than the setting according to the review, which to me just sounds like bias.

Dizzy, I didn't use the term artist as a joke or freely. Although I do not appreciate hiphop, I respect every form of art, because over the years I saw a real strugle for many art forms I like being dissed and disrespected by the rest of the industry. I'm talking stuff like videogames ("videogames? are you a boy now?").

You know what you really remind me? I'll tell a slightly racist joke, just to make my point.
One day an african family learned of a river that would turn the caucasian were they able to cross it. Mother, father and son decided to cross the river. Father crossed the river, and turned caucasian. Son crossed the river with some strugle and turned caucasian. Mother tryed to cross the river but it was too strong, and she started drowning.
"Daddy, go help mother" - to which the father replies "Oh, don't mind her, she's black"

Now, don't get me wrong, I know many people are closed minded, and automatically prejudiced against whatever they aren't inside of (something I've fought against for many many years, despite my young age), but I saw gamers who surfed the net as a small elite group, which understood things differently. Which see past the media stupidity - but afterall, you are just like that, in games. In whatever other subjects, you are still like any other prejudice ridden human.

You're going a bit over the top CyberClaw. The problem with Def Jam and a lot of other things these days is that it's a part of a vicious circle. It's being done by people who don't understand teenagers but try to please them, so it's utterly ridiculous and to make things worse, many teenagers imitate it and transform into caricatures of their own selves.

So, while rap may be an art form, the rap culture you can experience in Def Jam, teenage magazines and TV shows is 100% fake and aimed at idiots.

I think I agree with you, CyberClaw. This game doesn't interest me, but I do find it amusing that some people can be so dismissive of it. For instance what Blerk says below is so obviously flawed it's hard to believe he actually said it.

"reviewers (and "older" gamers) nowadays are able to level to games like WindWaker or Mario 64 (with a kiddy story and setting - which is fine and cool mind you, I'm talking about favs of mine)

'I wouldn't consider either of those 'kiddie' games. But I would consider this a 'kiddie' game, because as far as I can tell it could only possibly appeal to kids. The other two games can be enjoyed regardless of your age.'"

marilena, stop thinking on target public. That's silly. Maybe that was the purpose, but that's not what the final piece represents. Does one need to understand a kid to make a kiddy game? Does one to understand about gardening to make a game like Pikmin? It's not really that that matters. It might be a caricature of hiphop, but it's simply another twisted universe. Doesn't matter if the hiphop is accurate or not, if it's the vision of hiphop by the eyes of a 40 year old dev, or a 14 year old kid. That's the fun about it. To get inside different twisted views of a mundane subject.

We are grown looking up to policemen as heros in real life. That's why it's so interesting movies, stories and games where the other half is exposed. GTA is a twisted and unrealist look at crime, but it's fun.

I know of a 30 something year old group of american people who likes it (my friends). Not just that mind you, but many other games, of different kinds (and no, they don't like hiphop, it's a small goth metal group).

Oh but that's humanity I guess. They find WindWaker kiddy and silly. WTF, I give up.

I'm 34 and i like Hip Hop, Reggae and RnB. Sean Paul, Lil Kim and snoop dog, are all cool in my book.
I'd actually buy this game for the soundtrack what tunes are in it? and how many?
The game may be a bit naff i don't deny that, but a pumping soundtrack and realistic looking characters and moves would make this a perfect 'after pub' game in my house.
Especially if the moves aren't too complicated so a load of drunkards (who aren't that good at computer games ie: my mates) can still manage to play it.

//Ok seen soundtrack list 28 tunes: all quality if you like that kind of thing. Gonna rent it, i reckon it'll be quite amuzing.

what i gather from this review is that the game is, on a basic level, way above average.

yet the score must be so low because this reviewer dislikes the premise, theme and ability to create/dress up characters. certainly not the most impressive review i've seen on EG.

Yea, I was about to talk about that. This review doesn't even mention the gameplay of the game (it's a fighting game afterall) other than having a couple of styles and different grabs. No mention on the special grabs, that look AWSOME for example. For you thinking on how this game plays, it is similar to the very old N64 wrestling game. The system is just better now.

Is Eurogamer getting old and insane? You know, like when the old vet starts ranting about in his days the grass was greener and farts smelled good.

It does get across the point that teenagers are good for nothing, which is nice and accurately follows >the predictions.

graphics look nice enough although ill need to rent it to see if its worth buying just for my casual mates who would probably love seeing all their favourite KRUNK KREW in a game... sigh

i think everyones reading waay too much into this. its just a wrestling game with rappers. some people will like it cos its westling, some people will like it because its got their favourite artists in it. i dont think its an age thing at all. In fact, I think its a little eliteist to poke fun at it, without considering that there will be quite a few non-tards who will buy and enjoy it.

/ considers reiterating the review = opinion thing
/ can't be bothered.

Face it - with all the other quality fighting games out there, few people are going to buy this for the fighting alone, however good or bad. And a lot of people (like me) wouldn't touch it with a barge pole because of that oppressive chav Ali G wannabe focus - it's just too embarrassing that someone might think I take that gangsta shellsuit hardcase bit seriously. GTA was *funny*. Take away the humour and it could have been pretty lame. These boys take themselves waaaay too seriously.

Nobody gave a damn if BMXXX had a good BMXing model in it - Pat's dead right to concentrate on the cynical demographic focus group mentality behind this.

For instance what Blerk says below is so obviously flawed it's hard to believe he actually said it.

Whoa, back up there. What exactly was so wrong? You just repeated my statement without actually saying why you disagreed with it. :-)

Maybe I was being a bit flippant, but I stand by what I said. Wind Waker might 'look' kiddie, but it has an detailed storyline and involved gameplay so I'd say it can be enjoyed by anyone.

But this? Alright, I'm not interested in either wrestling or the music, but it sounds like the sort of thing a bunch of teenagers would think was a good idea for a game if they were talking about it in the playground over lunch. And that's all well and good - if it appeals, it appeals. I just can't quite grasp how it could possibly appeal to anyone who's a 'grown up'. i.e. someone who's progressed past the stage of asking "who'd win in a fight between X and Y" every five minutes.

>This review is a total embarassment

Nope... spot on. Luckily there are people with taste working at EG. We don't need recycled drivel like this game. 100% fake plastic and 100% shit. Some people might like this game but it is the duty of EG to protect them from their own bad taste! :)

I would suggest you get out of gaming if you like this and go watch some monster trucks jumping on top of each other.

"So which rappers haven't I heard of?"

John Paul Getty.

The trouble is that some kids will take this game seriously, and actually aspire to look as ridiculous as the people in his game, and talk as stupidly as them too. Go down your local shopping centre, and you'll see this in action. "Da kidz" wearing loads of da jewellery and hunting in da packs, while actually speaking like those loonies.

Snobby middle-class view of things? Do I look like I give a shit?! ;)

Uh uh yo, what what, uh uh. *raises hand to the sky*

But surely guns don't kill people, rappers do?

Nice review, by the way - pandering to the prejudices of the regulars is definitely the way forward.

Someone told me this was actually a rather finely crafted and addictive beat-'em-up, but I just told them they were a child and went on my way.

what i gather from this review is that the game is, on a basic level, way above average.

yet the score must be so low because this reviewer dislikes the premise, theme and ability to create/dress up characters. certainly not the most impressive review i've seen on EG.

Uh, but it got a 6. That's ABOVE AVERAGE.

Eighthours, that's SO stupid. When people saw GTA from the outside, they said people would see GTA, and aspire to be a gangster. We, gamers, revolted, because it was bullshit and we knew it.
Now, you are saying the same thing, because you don't like a gamer for whatever reason... I find it actually pretty funny. The same way I find normal wrestling plots funny (even if they take themselves seriously, and use fake blood and all those bullocks).

I think this is simply a biased, uninformative review. Sorry. Why on the fuck, doesn't the review MENTION the gameplay? Isn't it important in games anymore? The only thing I could gather on this review, gameplay-wise, is you can punch, kick and grab. Congratio-fucking-lations. You just described a fighting game... I mean he doesn't even say if he liked how the game plays. Fucking crist, here is my review of street fighter alpha 3:
you can punch, kick, and do a couple of grabs. But the sprites are low res... my god!!!

Yea, SFA3 has specials, but that isn't important to the review, because Akuma is silly. (I'm joking because DefJAm also has specials - and amazing specials at that, way way better than Smackdown's Smackdowns - yet, they do mention the "Smackdowns" in the Smackdown review... why? Because it's part of the gameplay. It's important in a review...)

So is it the question if you like Hip Hop or not, which will answer the opinion about Def Jam?
Which would mean, it doesen't matter how old you are, just what style you like.......
I mean if this game should be shit (I normaly trust on EG with the critical reviews about games) then shouldn't Soul Calibour and Tekken and and and also be shit because it is exactly the same thing just not in Hip Hop style?????

please advice, I'm interested in your opinions

Eighthours, that's SO stupid. When people saw GTA from the outside, they said people would see GTA, and aspire to be a gangster. We, gamers, revolted, because it was bullshit and we knew it.
Now, you are saying the same thing, because you don't like a gamer for whatever reason... I find it actually pretty funny. The same way I find normal wrestling plots funny (even if they take themselves seriously, and use fake blood and all those bullocks).


Correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't see any people imitating GTA. I do, however, see plenty of kids aspiring to the hip-hop "ideals", wearing ridiculous amounts of jewellery, speaking in "dat way", and acting like twats.

I didn't make my rant clear, so I apologise. I wasn't meaning to say that the game itself will "influence" people. What I am weary of is the whole culture of mainstream hip-hop taking over "da high street", of which this game is just the latest example. It's stupid and moronic. Unlike decent underground hip-hop, by the way, before I get accused of prejudice against urban music.

more and more I see

this game could be perefct and it wouldn't be appreaciated, I'm not even playing or buying it, it is just very funny, that thsi whole arguments have nothing to do with the game itself, it is a pro/contra discusion about Hip Hop, and perhaps here in Europe we have a lot of wanabees, who think they are Mr. Cool, da gansta, but in the end there are also people who don't know anythign else and who really life that "stupid" street life.

In the end a game is nothing but a roleplay as usual, and simular to every game, either you are interested in that roleplay or not, but having a discusion about influencing the children refering to one game (Def Jam) is nothing but ridiculous, taking a look at all the games that are out there!

Sorry 8hours, but you are lame, and simply can't accept other cultures. 500 years ago, it was slavery, because we couldn't accept people with a darker skin tone as our equals. Nowadays, it's different tastes.
Godforbid if someone doesn't act, dress or uses his hair like your book says so. Because then, it's stupid. I dress all black. I use spikes, and chains. I have long hair and 4 ear piercings. I'm different. Is that so bad? What is the big deal about it? Why call stupid something different? I'm not saying you called Goths stupid, I said you called hiphopper stupid, just because they are different and don't understand... Prejudice is very ugly my friend. I sugest you open yourself to other cultures, and try not be so judgemental about something you simply disagree with.

Now, I still haven't heard a good argument about the review itself. Other than people putting down the hiphop culture - but the game review itself, nothing. My friend, that's like reviewing samurai shodown, and saying that it's a stupid fighting game with swords, because it has samurais in it, and you find samurais stupid, ugly, or you think they have a bad sense of fashion...

I think people have significant issues with rap culture because of its blatent sexism and homophobia. Not that sexism and homophobia doesn't exist in all walks of life, it just tends to be slightly more obvious and blatent. Although not all of course, Public Enemy and Disposable Heroes rocked.

Now shut up hoes !

Clive Dunn, it's a different culture I guess. That doesn't mean every hiphopper is homophobic or sexist. They also talk about violence, and being big badasses, killing cops, and whatnot. It doesn't mean they are like that, to some it's more like a representation - something with countroversy to talk about in their tunes. Rockstar ain't filled with vandals just because they made GTA - it's just something they created, some might find funny, others might find offensive, because let's face it, you are an outlaw killing cops. Just expressions, and representations that get into certain cultures.

Let me give a more close to home example. I love religious simbols. And I specially like simbols with some countroversy behind it. An inverted crussifix, or an inverted pentagram, both are simbol of satanism, and black magic arts. I'm an atheist. I dno't believe in any of that crap. That means I don't believe in magic, supernatural, or any religion. Yet, I find amuzing wearing religious simbols, for the same reason I'd find amusing wearing an Halo tshirt. I find the stories, rituals, and whatnot, amuzing. I've been seen a couple of times with crosses, celtic crosses, anks and pentagrams (not inverted, I didn't find any of those yet), and that doesn't mean I believe in them.
Yet, people who see me on the street will possibly correlate me to a satanist. And if I try to explain them I don't believe in God, nor Satan, they'll call me a Pagan then.

If you ask me, there are many more offensive cultures out there. I can think of a religion, heavily related to torture and murder, that preaches about love, no material possessions and helping the poor, while at the same time, controls the richest place in the world (the Vatican), with it's headmasters wearing golden robes, and sitting their royal asses in gold trones... While at the same time, many of their shepards are accused of such things as pedophilia. The funniest, is that the vatican simply tries to ignore that priests all over the world, possibly sexually fustrated, are accused of such things.

Are certain hiphop lyrics too offensive to certain minorities? I guess. Does that give a global representation of the hiphop scene? Hardly. It's just what transpires, because it's the most offensive. Same way outsiders to gaming, only know GTA as a videogame, because it's the most offensive, and it's the only thing that transpires to the "outside gaming circles". It doesn't mean there are only GTAs out there. It means media rapped their audience minds, with their pre-consieved ideas, prejudice, and most of all, drive to get audiences through scandle, not by honest reports.

DeathKitty - If you don't like Eurogamer, go away. And please don't call me a "narrow minded idiot" again, because that's highly offensive. The review is self explanatory. If you want to buy a well presented game that allows you to live a fantasy of being a hip hop fighter, buy it.

Sorry 8hours, but you are lame, and simply can't accept other cultures. 500 years ago, it was slavery, because we couldn't accept people with a darker skin tone as our equals. Nowadays, it's different tastes.
Godforbid if someone doesn't act, dress or uses his hair like your book says so. Because then, it's stupid. I dress all black. I use spikes, and chains. I have long hair and 4 ear piercings. I'm different. Is that so bad? What is the big deal about it? Why call stupid something different? I'm not saying you called Goths stupid, I said you called hiphopper stupid, just because they are different and don't understand... Prejudice is very ugly my friend. I sugest you open yourself to other cultures, and try not be so judgemental about something you simply disagree with.

You're misunderstanding me completely. Dress how you want, listen to whatever music you want.

My problem with mainstream hip-hop culture is that it's moronic. It encourages people to treat women badly, be homophobic, act like a twat, disregard education, never get a job, carry firearms and generally act like a member of "da hood".

Correct me if I'm wrong, but dressing all in black and having piercings as you do, doesn't spread a message that you want to do any of the above. Mainstream hip-hop culture does. Goths are a friendly, sociable bunch of people. People who aspire to bling culture are precisely the opposite.

Go down to your local town centre, and see which group of kids are acting like dicks. I guarantee it'll be the hip-hoppers. Generalisation? No, it's just the way things are. The Goths will be holding the doors open for old ladies, while the hip-hoppers will be trying to steal their purses.

And by the way, I'm not a Goth.

In summary, since when did it become a crime to frown upon a culture that uses thuggery and nastiness as a selling point?

I'll reiterate what I said before: hip-hop itself isn't like this. It's the bastardisation of the form in mainstream hip-hop that has sullied the music's good name.

To summarise how I feel about this: Disliking Goths is prejudicial because you're judging them by the way they LOOK.

Disliking hip-hoppers is ok because you're judging them by the way they ACT.

ahh man... Samurai Shodown ... I loved that game.
So the big question is as a fighting game is Def Jam better or worse (excluding subject matter) but basing it on the games moves and fighting styles and specials... well as we all know we can't tell as the review doesn't really mention about any of those things.
I too agree with others that this review and the warhammer 40k review are not the type of thing i expect from Eurogamer. All fluff and no substance does not a good review make.

And you, noway, are an unmitigated genius.

8hours, hiphop is what's in right now. Vandals dress the outlaw in of the year. So, yea, I guess most vandals will dress like hiphopers, same way 20 years ago they dressed as punks or metals. That doesn't mean punks metals or hiphoppers are all like that. It means it's a fad, and everyone, dresses like that now.
The biggest selling hiphop group in Portugal's last hit song, is about treating a woman like a queen. And that's the whole point. There will always be bad people. Not just hiphoppers, but from every social circles, there are good and bad people.
You are asking me how guys who go arround robbing people dress this day and age? You are right, they probably wear what I'd consider hiphop style of clothes. But that's just because HipHop is what's in right now. If they were born 20 years ago, they'd be punks, and 40 years ago, they'd be James Dean wanna-bes. The reason for this, is because of the same reason they rob, and I don't want to get into those psicological discussions (although I'd be glad to, in the right place like the forum). But the point is that just because everyone dresses like a hiphopper right now, doesn't mean everyone IS an hiphopper.
Daweasel, Portugal's biggest hiphop group, talks about hard times, in bad neighbours, and not once I've heard them being homophobic or sexist. So, like I said, there are groups for everything. The same way I guess there are satanist goths... doesn't mean every goth is a satanist ;)

Well I think you'll find 75% of my very small post was actually trying to avoid stereotyping......

I think your attitude to religious imagery is childish, granted an inverted cross may mean nothing to you, but it means a lot to others and can be interpreted as a huge insult. I'm sure you could argue that the Swaztika was stolen from mythology and abused by the Nazi's and the imagery has nothing really to do with racial hatred, but I wouldn't been seen dead wearing one on a t-shirt. Sympathy and understanding for other peoples sensitivities are paramount when dealing with such symbols.

Getting back to the game, I think this is just a cynical marketing exploit from EA. Basically fighting game + hip hop stars + licensed music = game. Brilliant, its everything that I hate about EA. They do some great stuff, sprinkled with some low brow bollocks. And this is the lowest.

I see, this is getting personal,
its funny, noone answers my questions, either everybody has me on ignore, or then my opinions are way to neutral and fair for anyone in here to read, because we all rather curs on and ofend people, then just simply talk about a game. What the heck should make this game any wors then a other one? I mean not even Manhunt was reviewed like this! Nobody talkes smack about Tekken.
As I said, its all just a roleplay, you don't play GTA, walk out of your house and talk in Mafiaenglish to your neighbour smack befor you shoot him. And the same here, you dont play Def Jam and then walk out of your house beating your neighbour to deaf by using some weird combo technics. Either you are a arswhole or not, but a game does not change shit.

I could of wrote this review in this quality without even playing a second of the game, which I haven't

Clive Dunn, I know a inverted cross is looked down by religious people (I never used a inverted cross - although I find them cool). But, the same way I distance myself from the significance of the crussifix, I also distance myself from a inverted one. To me, they are both cool, and both with equal cool meanings, although one is a bad meaning. It's just mythos for me. Like I said, I don't believe in Satan nor God, why should I like a regular crussifix more?
Now, the day I find a inverted crussifix, I'll use it. It's not like Satanist ever did any wrong to the regular chruch. All I've read in both bibles, is that one preaches for love with strict rules, the other preaches for lack of religious rules and social freedom (it does not preach for illegal things, but doesn't see any wrong in something like an orgy for example). I don't really think a Cristan can bitch about a inverted cross for the simple reason that the Satanist church never did any harm to no one. Yet, the cristain church sponsored some questionable actions in the 15th century... Quite in fact, I think there are many reasons to find a regular crussifix offensive.

The swastica used by Nazis is a more serious business. Many minortities suffered at their hands, and the simbol of thor's hammer isn't worshiped by any culture, so I think out of respect for the suffering caused by the nazis, one should not wear a swastica (unless of course, it has some inteligent meaning, like for example, I would understand a swastica in MasterChiefs armor, because they called the armor after Thor's hammer, Mjorlin - yet, I think a developer should try to stay away from such controversy, because most people don't know of the origins of the swastica). A inverted swastica however, is a buddist simbol for heart.

Erm sorry for the offtopic. Back on track if you like Wrestling fighting games, where you can costumise your apearence, with a over the top presentation, this is your game. If you irrationally loathe hiphop stay away. (just trying to stay relevant to the coment topic :S)

Big Swiss, like I said in my 20 other comments, I agree, this is a game, with a twisted universe like any other. The lack of the reviewer aptitude to roleplay the part, made the review uneven and very biased. There is no difference in roleplay a gangster, a young hero, or a hiphopper. There is no need for us to aspire to such parts, to roleplay as them. That's what games are about. I guess that's why no one specifically replyed to you, because people were already either agreeing or disagreeing with that point of view.

You see, I'm looking forward to GTA San Andreas, partly because I just know Rockstar are going to take the piss out of hip-hop culture completely.

But many of "da kidz" won't realise it.... not that they should be able to buy the game anyway!

8hours

you wrote: correct me if I'm wrong

I don't say your wrong, but consider this, you are right, nobody goes around acting like GTA, and imitating the stuff that you can play there, well no crime has ben linked to GTA YET
but Def Jam is not even released yet, so the game is acctually imitating the poor people in the slums, not the other way around.

Big Swiss : not ignoring you i totally agree.

Eight hours: I'm not sure Rockstar are going to be 'taking the piss' out of hip hop culture. But more like building a game around the whole concept of Hip hop culture. Using its styles and fashions from the early eighties.

first CyberClaw I agree with your point of live and let live. But serious, if this is all already a done deal, then why are you still posting and having discussions with 8hours? Because the point that you and I was making is obviously not understood yet, because if it was, this whole review would be deleted and created new.

cheers Mingster

seems like the hate is disapearing and the reality of what games are and will be is finally coming back!

Yea, the reason I Didn't refer to you was because I agreed with you. I referred to those whom I didn't agree with :)