Qur'an references force worldwide LittleBigPlanet recall Comments by Tom Bramwell

This does not make sense. If the phrases were from an already released song then surely there would have been an outcry about its presence in the song. Why did nobody complain about the song first?
I wonder if the complainant was a Microsoft employee ;-)

"One thing that annoys me about Islam in particular is that it's still so invested in the laws and societies of many countries. The same could be said about us in the west with Christianity at one point, but it seems that the Western world, from a judicial and governmental level at least, has outgrown its religious roots. Separation of Church and State."

Very true. Though it's a shame the US seems to be moving back to the dark ages under pressure of christian fundamentalists.

@TheBlackLodge
"Choice.

I can't see how giving people a choice (which a take it or leave it patch on day one would represent) would have been such a bad idea. You appease those that don't give a fuck and those that do. Tis surely just common sense and would avoid all of this sillyness."

How do you appease someone who doesn't give a fuck? I mean they don't really want anything.

@beckyh

Isn't the song in Somali? I'm really not down with the east African pop scene from a couple of years ago, his could have been massive news there and then. It probably wasn't though. I guess it shows how people react differently to different media. LBP is a game for kids, so I guess that makes a difference.

"What about the moral guidelnes all law and general goodwill come from?"

They don't come from faith, they come from people, who put them in faith. We people have morality because we are social animals: We need each other to survive. Simple as that. There is no objective "good" and "bad", they are, like god(s), constructions of the human mind.

You claim to be a non-believer. Do you cheat people? Do you assault them, steal their property or kill them? It's very likely that you don't. And that's not because of the assumed fact that a socialist and terrorist that is said to have lived over 2000 years ago said we should love our neightbour* like ourselves but because of the fact that a morality based on that rule is the only sustainable one in a social species.

* And contrary to what most people seem to think nowadays, the 'neighbour' concept of new testament only included other jews (as Jezus, if he existed, was a jew). It was perfectly fine to treat a non-neighbour like a piece of dirt. From Enlightenment on, the concept was gradually expanded to include all other human beings, not just one's clan members. This didn't happen through divine intervention but rather through a lack thereof.

You do know its not being racist as islam/muslims arnt a race its a relgion so this is called Discrimination.

What annoys me is if they had lines from the bible nothing would be said islam is way to over sensitive over stuff like and they do wonder why poeple hate them at the moment.

Look at the schools now they dont celebrate christmas cuase it might upset the other relgions but what about me i love christmas i love the whole christmas story thats what i been bought up on and it sickens me that there isnt a christmas just a winter holiday.

I will never knock anyones faith but what i belive is if you come to a christian country then you MUST follow christian ways and not try and force your own relgion on people , But seeing UK christians are a dying breed others religons take the piss when they come here.

LOL

"PixelLive you are not understanding my point. Ill be as clear as possible.
I can kill and rape anyone I want in the name of Democracy. So now are you going to blame Democracy for my ignorance?
You talk about the Crusades. The Christians can argue that Jesus condems the crusades.
I can cause VIOLENCE IN THE NAME OF ATIESM. Does that mean Atheism is evil? Bottom Line = Unless the belief or law promotes evil, you cant blame the belief or law for people using it as an excuse to kill!
Let us assume that there is this bloke called Allah. Is it his fault that his followers are not doing what he says to do in his book? Please answer."

Probably because the point is very stupid.

Anyone can claim to do something in the name of anything. But the way you use it in your examples, it's just empty words with no deeper context.

Religion provides the context (infallible texts, social pressure) for doing terrible things. Reason doesn't.

"I can't get over some the things people are saying, the game got delayed people! It's still coming out! No need need to start going all hitler"

Ridiculous post. What has Hitler got to do with this?!

As for the delay, I couldn't care less (which is a bit hypocritical as my copy has already been mailed to me from the US). What I do care about is bigots putting restrictions upon what I can experience.

Update, can’t be arsed to read the probable rhetoric from morons on this site but it is only delayed by one week... out Oct 31st (which was the original date!!) So off to play fable for a week sweet... that is unless they find it is offensive to west country people, which I am so ban it... grr I am outraged!!

Also ban the EG winning level, as I find it offence to burgers.

‘the squeaky wheel gets the grease’

Its all turned a little Gamefaqs in here :\ Fair play to Sony though, I think that makes all three developers/publisher with a game they've had to recall due to offensive wording.

Nintendo - Mario Party 8, over the 'Spastic' affair in Europe.
MS - That strange fighting game that had things from the Koran
Sony - LBP

You'd think they'd learn from each other XD

well i have the american version.i have imported it.they dont TAKE BACK MY COPY!IM TOO ADDICTED TO GIVE IT AWAY!

Is it just me that doesn't understand why that warrants a recall? Is anyone likely to be offended by it, it's not as if other games haven't lifted from Islam, Christianity, Judaism etc. etc.....

I'm not sure Muslims are Sony's main concern here.

Seriously - imagine mainstream American news channels running a story that Sony's flagship family-friendly game features lines from the Qu'ran that mean "Every soul shall have the taste of death" and "All that is on earth will perish". You think christian America is going to be OK with that? It really doesn't matter that the lyrics, in themselves are harmless, and are nothing to do with the game at all - people in the main are ignorant, intolerant and are more than happy to find a new reason to be offended. There would be a media shitstorm.

When Resistance pissed off the church it didn't matter - the offended parties probably weren't going to buy anyway. With LBP Sony are trying to sell to everyone, and it's the game they're pinning their hopes on. They REALLY don't want negative press here.

Well I've only just picked up on this and it's just fucking choice isn't it?

If you ever wanted concrete proof that 'we' are NOT winning the war on terror then this is it.

Big corp's and governments running in fright from upsetting backward-minded people who contribute absolutely fuck-all to our civilisations is proof-positive that these cunts are calling the shots in our 'society' today.

My retirement plan (in 4-5 years time, hopefully) kicks off with a one-way ticket to the far-east and I can't fucking wait to get on that plane.

My sympathies to all who will be left behind in Britainistan.

"Once again. This is not the fault of Muslims. This is a massive overreaction on Sony's part. They could've easily issued a day one patch, but they chose to go this route. "

It's the same reaction you get everywhere these days mate when some Muslim says he has been 'offended'.

You have to realise that this language does not mean what it used to mean.

When you and I say we are offended, we mean we are offended.

When a Muslim says they are offended, they are threatening you directly - hence the reaction by those who are threatened.

If you repeatedly appease people who take the piss, as clearly we are doing in this country, you get this sort of BS which ultimately will build up to major conflict.

Go ask Neville Chamberlain ...

@TheFamousKevin
Most Muslims belong to a certain race

No, dude that really, really isn’t the case - Although obviously people from the Islamic states are more likely to be of the Islamic faith; the religion is HUGE covering many part’s of the globe (not just the middle east) including people from a wide range of ethnic backgrounds (over 20% of the worlds population is Islamic after all) - Which makes your statement pretty racists, sure :)


@TheFamousKevin
Islamophobic

Islam is a religion, not a place - 'A Muslim (Arabic: مسلم‎ pronounced Muslim, not Muzlim) is an adherent of the religion of Islam' (from Wiki)

I would imagine most people posting here have no problem with the Islamic faith but do have a problem with the Medias/political over sensitivity to any/all potential Islamic issues. (Certainly to a level that isn’t representative of the feeling of the vast, vast majority of those who believe in the Islamic faith).

I think this was highlighted most prominently by the episode of South Park where a depiction of Mohammed was cut by Comedy Central, but the image of Jesus flying around shitting on Bush and the American flag was green-lit without issue.

Though this is obviously influenced by the recent terrorist activity by extremists, politically it is often used to self-publicise the politician or to push through another law limited out individual liberties by encouraging fear and intolerance in our society.

"but then all you're saying is religion should be killed off, thus saying people should not be allowed to choose..."

I'm not saying religion should be killed off, I say it will die if children will be stopped being brainwashed: So by educating children instead of forcing outdated world views upon them, there will be not much room anymore for religion and it will be essentially 'killed'. Of course people should be free to choose, that's the whole point of not allowing bigots to indoctrinate children. My point is that if you really let educated people choose they will in general not choose religion. Those that still do are of course free to do so as long as they don't bother other people with their delusion.

"Les, where did I say I was a non-believer?"

You're right, you didn't. My bad. It should have read: "You claim to be non-religious".

why do they have to take back the entire shipment of lbp? couldn't they release a patch or something???
btw some people already have it, are they getting theirs replaced??

"We have taken immediate action to rectify this and we sincerely apologise for any offence that this may have caused."

Surely the offence, to 99.999% of LBP buyers, is that they are reacting in this way?

I think that's the real story here and I look forward to hearing Sony justify this reaction to the vast majority of their consumers, i.e. why they were 'forced' (in EG's own words) to do this ...

"Having to wait a bit longer for a game to be released is not a reasonable excuse to make bigoted statements about somebody else's culture and religion."

No it isn't. Having the contents of a game changed because of bigots is.

I used to be a cultural/religious relativist myself but at some point I realized that it just doesn't hold: Humanity as a whole isn't served by encouraging world views that are wrong.

So we can expect all games that have bible words to be recalled.
Yeah, right.

This is Sony giving in to the fascist cult of mohammed. Sony are cowards.

"So we can expect all games that have bible words to be recalled.
Yeah, right.

This is Sony giving in to the fascist cult of mohammed. Sony are cowards. "

They won't recall bible-related stuff because Christians tend not to threaten you if you don't comply 100.0% with their views.

Here is something that fascinates me about religions, in hinduism they have 'the untouchables' who are looked down on by the higher casts. Is that not a blatant form of discrimination? What amazes me even more about the whole LBP issue is that FFS it is not different to Qawalli. Here is something all those so called muslims should think about before they start complaining is that if they are so offended about a few quranic ayats being implemented into a games structure, 1 - do they consume alcohol? do they consume haraam foods? do they fuck outside of marriage? etc. In other words it means nothing to me anyways if they seem so offended by this recall because it is just hypocricy. The other thing that this forum has shown me is that, and i have said this in an earlier post, I now see that there are gamers who outside of gaming are just as hateful and closed-minded about other peoples beliefs and convictions. to me it makes them no different to those people who they hate.

"Hmm, an interesting one and for some reason I generally agree with a recall, but I'm not even sure why. "

Because you feel threatened if it is not removed and because we are losing and they are winning.

this is total crap, something which is fundamentally bollocks being respected...

i fucking hate religion

"Wow TRUTH you call that looking into it? The only way you can look into it is by reading the book yourself, not by asking a few 'muslims'. If what you say is true, it would seem to me that these Muslims havnt even read their own book!
Anyways im going sleep now. "

What the book may or may not say is neither here nor there.

These people acted with their own minds - you can't attack the book or the religion but the people doing this shit (and worst of all, getting away with it) are who should be brought down along with the pandering, appeasing, feckless fucks letting them get away with it ...

@Arbiter

'Modern Islam'?!?!?!?!? What the hell is that? Islam hasn't changed one bit since those cavemen wrote it down.
Muslims are as intolerant as they always have been. They just have more to be intolerant about thanks to multi-culturalism and the interent, which allows them to see how un-islamic the rest of the world is.

"Islam hasn't changed one bit since those cavemen wrote it down."

Uhm, well actually they were nomads... Islam is christianity adapted to the morality that suited the life of dessert nomads better. Muhammed (the praised one) very likely was just a reference to Jezus but as time went by and the nomadic tribes came more and more at odds with the christians in the region islam and christianity became more and more separated. Essentially the same thing that happened when the christians adapted judaism. Why invent when you can copy?

"It's only a piece of music being replaced, so its hardly going to change the overall playing experience."

I know. But it was a track specifically selected by the artist because it fit the level. And then in comes a person with a vision on the world that is plain wrong that wants the song removed because he feels offended in his irrational believes. Next, fear of lunatics boycotting their product or doing worse things to company personnel makes Sony remove the song. Surely this can't be something good?

If rational people say "well it's only one song" or "well, it's only one cartoon" they are missing the point: This is bigger. It's reason giving in to delusion. Perfectly explainable given where we come from, with hundreds of years of religious ignorance shaping our culture and values, but surely it's not a direction that we want to keep on heading to?

Mohammed (saw) was not only a religious figure, but a historical one. There aren't enough similarities between Jesus (ra) and Mohammed (saw) for there to be any argument they were the same person. Seriously, don't mouth off if you don't have any real knowledge on the subject. You could at least spell Jesus (ra) correctly.

And to say Islam has not changed since it's inception is also incredibly ignorant and shows the level of knowledge bandied about by people who think they know the facts. Seriously where do you guys get your inormation from? The sun?

Islam was originally possibly the most tolerant major religion, in fact the change which has happened to Islam has made it more intolerant.

Just read quite a few of these comments, I knew some you guys got heated about the console wars, but f'ing hell there are some serious issues here. What's the average age here? A high volume of the comments are pretty darn shocking.

The game has been delayed by a couple of weeks, ffs, get a girlfriend or spend some quality time with your family or something. There are more important things in life, in fact I can think of few things less important.

"Mohammed (saw) was not only a religious figure, but a historical one."

Highly doubtful (same goes for Jesus by the way - it's no coincedence that the first stories about either one appeared well after they were dead) and because of the fact that within muslim countries studies towards the origins of islam aren't exactly encouraged we will probably never learn what really happened (if the evidence does still exist - history is written by the victor).

"You could at least spell Jesus (ra) correctly."
Sorry for the error, that's the way it's spelled in my first language.

"Islam was originally possibly the most tolerant major religion, in fact the change which has happened to Islam has made it more intolerant."

It was more tolerant than the christians were in the dark ages but not close to what we in a modern Western society would call tolerant. And yes, it became worse as the time went by.

At least noone can blame xbots/xbox 360 owners for the dumb comments in this thread...whew ;)
I see that stupidity isn't exclusive to PS3, 360 or Wii owners.

Sounds like a shitstorm over nothing … if they are that easily offended then it’s a good idea to remove it. Imagine the consequences if they didn't remove it.

am SOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO gutted :(

oh and religion sucks

I feel sorry for you if you really don't beleive he was a real person.

Didn't the Taliban destroy the statue of Buddha that was of great importance to Buddhist, and also of great history. The Buddhist where massacred by the Muslims as they were not muslims - Afghanistan was not previously a Muslim country.

So all those terrorists & haters of all non-muslim things - do they practice the Qu'raan right ? They say they do!

Oh dear, OH DEAR, OH DEAR.

One way to guarantee the most fucktarded combination of straw men, conspiracy theorists, intolerant nubs and general idiocy is to do a news story with anything Islamic in it. I don't like the belief in a big man in the sky, and i don't like the attitude of anti-Islamic nubbery that goes around too. Islam is a noun, referring to a religion. That comprises an awful lot of people. Who don't, amazingly, all think the same thing about every little detail of their religion, or indeed about anything. In contrast, this plurality is to be welcomed in all discussion, and so if anybody did call for this to be done, I respectfully disagree.

Sony withdrew it, it's their decision. It might have been brought about by pressure (link anyone, or do we assume someone cried foul?), or it might have been considered expedient. Either way I don't necessarily agree with it, but nor do I agree with the attitude that Islam is the root of all evil (or rather, Today's Culturally Centred View of Evil That Is Dictated By An Accident of Where I Was Born).

P.S. if anyone mentioned 'politcal correctness' as an excuse for a lack of critical thinking and as a byword for 'something I dislike', then I hope Allah himself comes down and kicks you in the ass, because that pithy fucking nebulous phrase that's used off-cuff by anyone who cares so much they can't decide what actually angers them pisses me off so much. Yeah, there's idiocy at times, and yeah, you perpetuate it.

'This decision probably is on a similar level with councils removing all mentions of Christmas and wishing everyone a happy winterfest. A little bit too PC... '

This is a case in point.

WHEN. DOES. THIS. EVER. HAPPEN?

I ask you. Birmingham City Council decided, about a decade ago, that maybe ***ALONGSIDE*** Christmas, something called Winterval should be introduced to appeal to minorities. Problem? Anyone? It was scrapped.

So now, every Christmas, when you walk down the street and the whole world is Christmas crazy, and lights are everywhere, and shops are literally covered in Christmas decorations, the media is full of Christmas news, the littler kiddies singing Christmas Carols about Jesus, and you settle down for a watch of a Christmas film, you can smugly say to yourself 'fucking political correctness, I'm so repressed'.

I'll stop now.

Durka Durka Mohammad Jihad


Hallalalalalalalalala aie!
:p

Yes, I am disappointed by the delay too and I am a practicing Muslim. Just to put things into perspective, as I'm sure some might even want to dissect THAT little statement, I recently completed my fast during the month of Ramadan and celebrated Eid. But, I am also a gamer and to quench some people's stereotyping further, the only AK-47 I ever wave around is in Call of Duty 4.

I have not come across many posts from other Muslims, but it is likely not because there aren't any Muslim members here. Posting myself, I feel like I am putting myself out to be, figuratively speaking, lynched by the mob. The kind of atmosphere we are generating here is caustic! I wonder if we would have seen 315+ comments simply because of the popularity of the game and not the current reasoning behind its delay.

There is, unfortunately, no middle ground when it comes to acceptance of either pro or anti religious views. And sadly only very few people are able to express tolerance, but when it comes to games and as a gaming community, it is what we should be striving for, no?

I expect someone is thinking, "Should I be tolerating someone flying planes into my building?", while someone else is thinking "Should I be tolerating the pre-emptive invasion of my country because of 9/11 when they're really only after my oil?"

I am not offended by those phrases being included (I am not remotely fluent in Arabic either, so I would not have understood them straight away). I would be, however, offended by media outlets and its audience who use this as the only thematic representation of my religion. Although mortality and an end-of-the-world situation seem pretty plausible to me, I am already seeing how this idea is interpreted as evil and exclusive to Islam. For that reason alone, I see how this has no place in AAA Sony title aimed at everyone.

Thankfully we won't get to that stage and I want to thank those who don't believe in my views, but choose to respect, not necessarily my views themselves, but the fact I have them and can separate that from extreme fundamentalism. Right back at ya! At the end of the day, we are all gamers and we will all be playing Little Big Planet and loving it to bits!

@MisterKIKI

Well said. :)

Absolutely ridiculous.

It's like the whole world is desperate to please muslims 100% these days, why?

@REdsparrows - DO YOU LIVE IN THE UK? If you do, you're blind, ignorant or delusional. Muslims are pandered to and catered for like nothing on earth here - and i pty anyone who cant see it.

Anyway im going to go before i say something i really regret.

Les: if you /really/ don't believe Muhammed was a historical person, you're, uh... wow. You're so ludicrously wrong I don't know where to start.

I mean, I'd say that in a politer way if I /could/, because that would make you more receptive to my message -- but, I mean, you're just /wrong/. He was, in fact, an actual, historical person. There's /no/ debate over that among historians -- and for that matter, re. Jesus, there's very, very little debate over Christ's historicity as well.

In the case of Jesus, there are a few fringey historians who argue that he's mythical -- and by "a few" I mean somewhere in the neighborhood of 3 to 5, out of the /hundreds/ of historians who specialize in early Christianity. It's decidedly a minority viewpoint that's rejected (when it's not outright ignored) by mainstream academic historians.

And, since talking about our personal religion seems to be all the rage in this thread, I'm Jewish, so I don't have a horse in this race. I'm just sayin' -- Muhammad's historicity is /extremely/ well-established. The idea that he never existed is bizarre and I don't know where you're getting it.

And, MisterKIKI, well said indeed. And because I just can't let this go:

Les: there's no shame in admitting you're wrong about something. Please just do it here, since after all you seem to pride yourself on rationality and the triumph of knowledge over ignorance.

I swear to you -- Scout's honor! -- that you are /profoundly wrong/ re. the historicity of Mohammad (or however you choose to transliterate his name) -- and that anyone who's actually investigated the issue in ANY depth at all, unless they are /batshit insane/, agrees with me on this. Really.

By the looks of this thread I dont think its the Muslims who are intolerant............. But Im bored of trying to explain to some people here. Bye Bye
And get over the delay.

I would just like to add to DAL9000 point about Muhammeds existance:

Les, the fact that you doubt Muhammeds existance shows how little you know about Islam.
Ever heard of the Islamic pilgramage? Often when making that journey, Muslims VISIT HIS GRAVE. He is buried in a Masjid in Madinah. I really cant beleive you would say such a silly thing. It kind of explains all the silly answers you have been giving.

Misterkiki has hit the nail on the head right there, respect to you sir for putting it out on this thread.

edit: Les, Mohammed was definitely a real person